१३ एप्रिल, २०२०

"There’s this talk about unity as this kind of vague, kumbaya, kind of term. Unity and unifying isn’t a feeling, it’s a process..."

"There’s also this idea that if we all just support the nominee that voters will come along as well... I don’t think this conversation about changes that need to be made is one about throwing the progressive wing of the party a couple of bones.... The whole process of coming together should be uncomfortable for everyone involved — that’s how you know it’s working. And if Biden is only doing things he’s comfortable with, then it’s not enough.... If we’re not talking about paths to citizenship for undocumented people, and if we’re just talking about policy changes of 5 or 10 percent — especially when you look at something like climate change — it’s not about moving to the left.... I do not feel a choice in adhering to my principles and my integrity, and being accountable to the movement that brought me here. But also, I don’t want another term of Trump.... I just want to tell the truth and I want to feel good about the truth."

From "Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Has Never Spoken to Joe Biden. Here’s What She Would Say. In an interview, Ms. Ocasio-Cortez said she intended to support the presumptive Democratic nominee, but the 'process of coming together should be uncomfortable for everyone involved'" (NYT).

ADDED: Interesting that she wants the “coming together” to be “uncomfortable,” but she wants the “truth” to feel good. If uncomfortableness is how you know the coming together is “working,” as she says, why wouldn’t you also see uncomfortableness as a test of truth? To say you want the truth that makes you feel good suggests that you don’t want the truth but some notion of “your” truth, which you wants to tell. And you’d like it to make other people uncomfortable.

१०६ टिप्पण्या:

robother म्हणाले...

"Coming together" with Democrat women is a process Biden is still fingering out.

tim maguire म्हणाले...

The whole process of coming together should be uncomfortable for everyone involved — that’s how you know it’s working.

Or how you know it's not working. Depending.

it’s not about moving to the left...

Of course not. Left isn’t a bias, it’s just plain common sense.

I want to feel good about the truth."

We all do. But that has nothing to fo with whether something is true.

chickelit म्हणाले...

Get together, people!

Wince म्हणाले...

Joe Biden would like to throw you his bone. And that's "uncomfortable for everyone involved".

rhhardin म्हणाले...

There's three branches of government for the unity.

Paul Zrimsek म्हणाले...

I want to respect his win, he won because of his coalition building, he won because of his service, he won for a lot of different reasons — but I don’t think he won because Americans don’t want “Medicare for all.”

If this is just a warning about reducing everything to a single issue then fair enough. But the fact remains that there were candidates in the Democratic primaries who promised Medicare for all, and candidates who were kinda-sorta in favor of Medicare for all, and Biden beat them all-- so it doesn't seem unreasonable to suspect that not even Democrats really want it.

rhhardin म्हणाले...

We must all stand together or we'll all stand separately.

Dave Begley म्हणाले...

This AOC woman is something else. She wants Biden to adopt most of her policies or she won't support him.

AOC is such a dope. Her Green New Deal virtually guarantees a Trump victory. It was a godsend. If you think the covid19 shutdown was bad, the GND would totally destroy the economy.

The CAGW scam is over. People aren't stupid. The CAGW scam depends on models and the covid19 shutdown have shown us how faulty models are.

Establishment Dems hate AOC because incrementalism and the courts was how they moved the country to the left over the years. Her radical GND blew up that winning strategy.

MadTownGuy म्हणाले...

The demand for unity is typically this: agree with what I say or else. You see this a lot in cultic movements.

stevew म्हणाले...

If she cares so much about her principles and integrity she should have chosen a different profession, one that doesn't expect and demand horsetrading of principles and abandoning of integrity (whatever she means by that term).

I'm Not Sure म्हणाले...

"I want to feel good about the truth."

Socialism killed over 100 million people in the previous century.

Feel better yet?

rhhardin म्हणाले...

The best thing about unity is doubling down on mistakes.

wendybar म्हणाले...

She should go back to bartending. With her mouth, she would be better served servicing people.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves म्हणाले...
ही टिप्पणी लेखकाना हलविली आहे.
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves म्हणाले...

Is anyone amazed that the left pick wholesale criminals as their candidates?

Media not interested in Joe Biden's blatant corruption. (they learned that they needed to sweep Hilllary's blatant corruption under the rug. Won't make that mistake again!)
Obama place old Joe in charge of Ukraine, and Biden ended up blatantly bragging on tape about with-holding millions of tax dollars to Ukraine unless the Ukrainians fired the man looking into Barisma corruption.
Barisma - Hunter Biden's laundered money benefactor.

AOC is certainly uninterested in Joe's high-crime. She's another lock-stepper at the end of the day.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves म्हणाले...

Hillary Clinton: "CLOSE RANKS!"

Hivemind-cylons: Yes SIR!

chickelit म्हणाले...

She's another lock-stepper at the end of the day.

She should be working poles instead of polls.

West Texas Intermediate Crude म्हणाले...

AOC is the Alyssa Milano of politics.
That the NYT pays attention to her is a mark against that once-respectable newspaper.
That any of us pay any attention to her does not reflect well on us, but at least I'm not following the link.
OTOH, sunshine is a great disinfectant, Gretchen Whitmer notwithstanding.

Nonapod म्हणाले...

adhering to my principles and my integrity

...whatever those are

I just want to tell the truth

...if only

She seems to be some combination of grifter and idiot. I can't decide what the true ratio is. Is she 50% grifter and 50% idiot? Or maybe she is 25% grifter and 75% idiot? On the surface her sense of self awareness seems fairly low and her understanding of how an economy works seems to be nonexistent (despite having supposedly having an undergraduate degree in economics from BU), but I suppose all that could be an act. Either way, given her any real power seems like one of the most dangerous propositions I could ever imagine.

Bay Area Guy म्हणाले...

And if Biden is only doing things he’s comfortable with, then it’s not enough ....

Agreed. He seems way too comfortable sniffing female hair and going for the downward reach, when the opportunity presents itself. Any thoughts on Tara Reade's claim of sexual battery?

If we’re not talking about paths to citizenship for undocumented people, and if we’re just talking about policy changes of 5 or 10 percent ..

What if the "undocumented people" are bringing exotic germs and diseases from foreign countries?

— especially when you look at something like climate change — it’s not about moving to the left.... I do not feel a choice in adhering to my principles and my integrity, and being accountable to the movement that brought me here.

Sorry about Bernie, Toots. Shit happens. Please learn to speak coherently, though. And feel free to not vote for Slow Joe in November. Principles and integrity!

SGT Ted म्हणाले...

Their entire set of demands is left wing and guarantees Trumps re-election if adopted. The clear un-thinkingness of AOC and her acolytes is just astounding. These aren't smart people.

mikee म्हणाले...

I, for one, have a hard time uniting with someone like AOC, who has evinced no understanding of, and no support for, the US Constitution, individual rights, or free market capitalism. She seems a comic book character stereotype of the mindless anti-American leftist, and should be treated as such.

Fernandinande म्हणाले...
ही टिप्पणी लेखकाना हलविली आहे.
Fernandinande म्हणाले...

"The whole process of coming together should be uncomfortable for everyone involved — that’s how you know it’s working. And if Biden is only doing things he’s comfortable with, then it’s not enough."

If it feels wrong, then it's right. Impeccable logic.

rcocean म्हणाले...

The Left is all about getting power and then getting as much as they can from the use of that power. Unlike the Center-Right which is more concerned about Grand standing attacking someone on their Right, and uttering vaporous nonsense about "Character" and "Principle".

There are no Left-wing "Mavericks" and AOC and Bernie will never go AWOL in 2020, or proudly vote for the opposing candidate - like Romney and the Bushes did.

Michael K म्हणाले...

stevew said...

If she cares so much about her principles and integrity she should have chosen a different profession,


You mean bartending ? That is her profession. Her one term Congress gig is just a vacation from work.

rehajm म्हणाले...

While she's out trying to bully the current presumptive nominee she's being primaried by Michelle Caruso Cabrera- a woman who is bright, articulate and supports reasonable policies...and has career experience communicating on camera.

How Trumpian. I'm not sure if AOC is too dumb to see it coming or has already accepted an inevitable defeat and is playing out the hand she has.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves म्हणाले...

AOC is a pretty Marxist actress.

How do so many democrat children get into Elite Colleges?

Tucker is so awesome.

danoso म्हणाले...

Winning an election is getting people off their butts to vote for your guy.

"I really feel uncomfortable about this" probably isn't going to get that to occur.

rcocean म्हणाले...

Look at schumer and pelosi. Almost 100 percent support from their members. Pelosi has a fairly thin majority, she's working with a 25 vote margin. But even on impeachment she got almost all of them. She gets them on EVERY Bill. When the R's were in power, EVERY bill was a question mark. Would the R's be able to get all the mavericks and get to 217?

Same thing with Schumer, on every IMPORTANT bill/appointment he has 100% D support. NO MAVERICKS. Not one D had the guts to vote to acquit Trump.

Michael म्हणाले...

"throwing the progressive wing of the party a couple of bones" !!

The Progressive wing has devoured the entire carcass of the Democratic Party, and it now wants to do the same thing for the whole country.

Yancey Ward म्हणाले...

Joe just needs to pick AOC up like a bowling ball (don't remember who came up with that visualization, but I am stealing it!).

rcocean म्हणाले...

Biden will play the "moderate" till November, then "Old Man Joe" will let the radicals take over. He's never fought them in the past, and at 78 - won't now

PM म्हणाले...

We're now living in the blueprint for AOC's Green New Deal world where a 'Climate-General' determines what activity is or isn't safe for 'the planet'.

J. Farmer म्हणाले...

Laughable to think that "unity" is something possible in the United States anymore. That's one of the worst outcomes of mass immigration. Unity is a country is facilitated by things like a common language, religion, holidays, cultural history, norms, values, etc. Now we have forms in dozens of languages, different holidays, different cultural histories, different values, different religions, etc. People are not told to leave those behind and adopt American ones. To the contrary, such a demand is considered racist, and people are actively encouraged to celebrate their ancestry and cultural traditions. We are expected to accommodate ourselves to them. Teaching our history in our schools is now considered offensive.

Now take all these disparate groups and try to get a consensus out of them. Is it any wonder that has people become surrounded by people they don't look like and don't relate to have problems trusting each other or engaging in pro-social community building?

SGT Ted म्हणाले...

Also, Identity Politics garbage people like AOC are not interested in unity. They thrive on petty, manufactured divisions to fabricate hatred towards normal people that don't agree with them. They are cultural fascists and bigots.

stevew म्हणाले...

@Michael K: touche and :-)

Agree Farmer. And the more the AOC types push for one-size-fits-all Federal solutions the more difficult any sort of unity becomes.

320m people across a vast geography with challenges, needs, and wants that vary by location; it will be difficult to get, as you say, consensus, never mind unity.

Lewis Wetzel म्हणाले...

" . . . I just want to tell the truth and I want to feel good about the truth."
That is asking for a lot. Ms Ocasio-Cortez has explained, again and again, that the US is a terrible place. How is she supposed to feel good about that?

Rory म्हणाले...

"The demand for unity is typically this: agree with what I say or else."

I hope some day YOU'LL join US, and the world can live as one.

Dave Begley म्हणाले...

The thing I can't get over about AOC is that she graduated with honors, in econ and international relations, from Boston University. She doesn't know a thing. Huge indictment of BU.

J. Farmer म्हणाले...

Support for progressive causes is highest among single women and ethnic and religious minorities. It is least among white men and married white women. This is precisely why white men are demonized, minorities and single moms are deified, and married or single white women are looked at suspiciously. They're supposed to be on our side, but they may be the kind of evil white women who agree with white men.

This is precisely why we get the occasional article gleefully announcing the impending demographic demise of white men. Non-white births have been outstripping white births for a while now. Non-whites outnumber whites in the K-12 public school system. It doesn't take a genius to understand what the effect on the country will be as the proportion of whites decreases and non-whites decreases. The writing is on the wall, folks. The civilization we inherited from our forebearers is in the process of being dismantled.

And here's the real kick in the balls: there is nothing Trump is going to do to stop it. We are in a plane that's going down, and we're arguing over the window or the aisle seat.

BarrySanders20 म्हणाले...

AOC sounds and acts like a squeaky, ditzy child. Squeaky ditzy is as squeaky ditzy does.

J. Farmer म्हणाले...

@stevew:

320m people across a vast geography with challenges, needs, and wants that vary by location; it will be difficult to get, as you say, consensus, never mind unity.

Yep. The current gulf between the Never Trumpers and the Ever Trumpers is the new norm. Divisiveness and disunity will only worsen. And given that Hispanics have lower average IQ than whites, as they become a greater share of the population, they will pull the average IQ of America down. An even greater number of Americans will be shut out of cognitively-demanding professions, which will worsen inequality, and that has its own socially deleterious consequences.

In other words: We. Are. Doomed.

gilbar म्हणाले...

stevew said...
If she cares so much about her principles and integrity she should have chosen a different profession


Dr. K beat me to it; but before donkey chompers answered the casting call for people to play the role of "Congressional Representative" she was a bar tender.

Then, the Young Turks HIRED her to play the role, because she was
sortof hispanic
sortof good looking
sortof female
sortof smart enough to read prepared scripts

Back in college, Sandy Ocasio-Cortez was an aspiring actress. She has landed the role of her lifetime.... There Will Be NO ENCORE

Retail Lawyer म्हणाले...

Will Joe sniff her or challenge her to fight? I don't think Joe does uncomfortable very well.

Churchy LaFemme: म्हणाले...

From "Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Has Never Spoken to Joe Biden. Here’s What She Would Say.

Huh?

Why doesn't she call him then? It's not like he's super busy, and she's a pretty big deal (big enough to keep mollified anyhow). He would certainly take the call.

BarrySanders20 म्हणाले...

And as for coming together with Crazy Joe, "old flat-top", he'll come grooving up slowly with his ju-ju eyeballs and his monkey finger Got to be a joker, he just do what he please.

BarrySanders20 म्हणाले...
ही टिप्पणी लेखकाना हलविली आहे.
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves म्हणाले...

I'm not an Ever-Trumper or a Never-Trumper. Tho in all honesty, circa 2016, I considered Never Trumperism when I assumed the notion that Trump was a Hillary stalking horse.

I'm a:
Modern Progressive Religionist-Democrat Party IS corrupt and we don't need that Schitt corroding this nation- Ever-Umper.

gilbar म्हणाले...

someone said... Why doesn't she call him then? He would certainly take the call.

indeed! She's (sortof good looking);
you'd think that she could wrap herself around his little finger, and get him to come to heel

Roughcoat म्हणाले...

Support for progressive causes is highest among single women and ethnic and religious minorities.

Excepting Cubans and Indians (from India). Exceptions that prove the rule.

Achilles म्हणाले...

J. Farmer said...
Support for progressive causes is highest among single women and ethnic and religious minorities. It is least among white men and married white women. This is precisely why white men are demonized, minorities and single moms are deified, and married or single white women are looked at suspiciously. They're supposed to be on our side, but they may be the kind of evil white women who agree with white men.


This is missing the point. You want to boil it down to race. It is not about race. It is about religious affiliation that is associated with cultural values.

This is protestant vs. everyone else.

The religious protestant Asian community is more supportive of individualism than white people.

The Buddhists though not so much for obvious reasons. And Catholics are the most supportive of collectivism.

The biggest problem though is the secular atheist elite. The same group that keeps murdering millions of people after they seize power.

Achilles म्हणाले...

Roughcoat said...
Support for progressive causes is highest among single women and ethnic and religious minorities.

Excepting Cubans and Indians (from India). Exceptions that prove the rule.

Hindus, at least the top 2 castes we see in the US, and Sikhs seem to fit in with individuals work ethics fairly well.

Bay Area Guy म्हणाले...

@BleachBitHammerMan,

I'm not an Ever-Trumper or a Never-Trumper.

It is the funniest thing I could ever imagine, but because of the dastardly nature of the Left and cowardly nature of so many Republicans and pseudo-right wingers, I have...become...an

Ever-Trumper!

Roughcoat म्हणाले...

And Catholics are the most supportive of collectivism.

True with respect to the Church hierarchy; not the case with the laity, the rank-and-file in the pews. Which is why so many Catholics have effectively gone on strike. I am one such. I am a white male of northern European (Celtic/Germanic) descent. White males are absenting themselves in droves from the pews. It's the RC Church's quiet crisis, as opposed to the "loud" crisis of clerical homosexuality and abuse of teenage Catholic males. Ethnic Catholics tend to be conservative, anti-collectivist. This is especially true of Eastern European Catholics. But African Catholics as well.

Roughcoat म्हणाले...

Hindus and Sikhs make for good Americans. They're committed to traditional American ethos. They buy into it. I think Koreans too. Good on all of them, I say.

Charlie म्हणाले...

As a BU grad myself I say.....

There's dumb.

There's dumber.

And then there's AOC.

Why does anyone listen to a thing this idiot says. Seriously, why?

Roughcoat म्हणाले...

The people who listen to and agree with AOC are as dumb as she is. Or dumber, if that's possible.

Roughcoat म्हणाले...

Well, maybe not African Catholics. I dunno.

doctrev म्हणाले...

Finally, something worth reading in the NYT. Whatever people think about AOC is probably wrong: her focusing on Biden's Medicare policy, and the unfavorable contrast with Hillary Clinton, indicates a sublimely clever politician. She's appealing to core issues among her voters, and using it to stab Joe Biden in the back. I'm alarmed because that's exactly what Trump did to the chuckservatives on trade and immigration. Looking solely at this one thing, it's clear that Biden's enthusiasm is going to be much lower than Hillary Clinton's was. Andrew Cuomo would enjoy even less enthusiasm as AOC declared the nomination contest rigged. Considering she's the best fundraiser in the House, the Dems can't afford to lose her and her section of the party base.

The Dems think they can just shunt her aside. I think they're GRAVELY mistaken.

Bill Peschel म्हणाले...

"it doesn't seem unreasonable to suspect that not even Democrats really want it."

During Obama's first term, the Democrats controlled the House, the Senate, and of course the White House.

As a result, they gave us Obamacare.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves म्हणाले...

Bay Area Guy - Yeah. I'm almost an Ever Trumper. I'm never infatuated with any of them, really.
I certainly support Trump more than ever, after witnessing all these years of full-on abuse from the hack-D press, assholes in the House and Senate abusing their power in front of us, and the hack-press letting them do it. and Hillarywood.

Lurker21 म्हणाले...

The concept is intriguing, but not convincing. If compromise means everyone is going around with pained looks on their faces and avoiding contact with those on the other side, those you want to impress and convince won't be persuaded. They'll pick up on the fact that the two factions don't like each other and are only trying to look like they get along. More often, successful compromises make both sides think that they've gained something - even if they have to deceive themselves about just how much they've gotten and how much they've given away. I wonder if her idea is characterized by authoritarianism: a faith in powerful leaders who can get both sides to make concessions until it hurts. It's also something of a respectable notion in religion - give till it hurts or you're not truly sincere - but it's unusual in the politics of a democracy.

J. Farmer म्हणाले...

@Achilles:

This is missing the point. You want to boil it down to race. It is not about race. It is about religious affiliation that is associated with cultural values.

This is protestant vs. everyone else.


Black Americans are overwhelmingly protestants. What are the policies they vote for? Do predominantly black municipalities like Detroit or Baltimore look like bastions of rugged individualism and strong cultural values? If religious affiliation were the key variable, then why do Ashkenazi Jews and Buddhist Koreans outperform protestant blacks and hispanics in terms of educational achievement, income, representation in professional occupations, level of criminality, and family stability?



J. Farmer म्हणाले...

@Roughcoat:

Hindus and Sikhs make for good Americans. They're committed to traditional American ethos. They buy into it. I think Koreans too. Good on all of them, I say.

Indian Americans are a pretty small part of the population. But still, they are more likely to vote Democrat than Republican. Trump got around 20% of their vote in 2016. Indian-Americans also practice identity politics. They lobby hard for visa giveaways for other Indians, which undercuts the wages and employment opportunities of natives.

Cubans attachment to the Republican Party is almost singularly a function of their advocacy for a hard line against the Castro regime. It is generational in nature, and younger Cuban Americans are not as wedded to the Republican Party as the older generation. It is true that Cuban-Americans tend to slightly outperform other Hispanics in America, but they still achieve less than whites. In addition, there are about 2 million Cubans in America compared to over 36 million Mexicans.

etbass म्हणाले...

Farmer, what would you tell Trump to do to address your concern (which is mine as well. I think multiculturalism is totally stupid)? What would you do if you were in his office, given the political situation he deals with?

Roughcoat म्हणाले...

Dear Cliff Clavin:

I wasn't talking about, and made no mention of, Mexicans.

I too practice identity politics. We all do.

I myself am not wedded to the Republican Party. I am wedded to my wife -- a female, btw. That's enough wedding for me as far as I'm concerned.

daskol म्हणाले...

haha Cliff Clavin is on point, your friendly neighborhood well-meaning but exasperated ethnonatinationalist.

doctrev म्हणाले...

Farmer, what would you tell Trump to do to address your concern (which is mine as well. I think multiculturalism is totally stupid)? What would you do if you were in his office, given the political situation he deals with?

4/13/20, 12:05 PM

I'll field this one. Immediate immigration moratorium, roundup/ deportation/ execution used against members of any foreign criminal organization like MS-13 and the Soros Foundation, "draining the lake" of illegal immigrants that protect criminal strongholds, immediate termination of the unconstitutional DACA program and related offshoots, severe limitation of H1B visas that prioritizes American workers for American jobs.

Farmer is almost certainly going to be a repatriation fan generally. I think it should start with Chinese nationals, illegal Mexican aliens, and criminals of all kinds. That will be more than enough for the Dems to start a civil war.

Bob Boyd म्हणाले...

Biden will be kept comfortable while a conversation takes place...

JAORE म्हणाले...


Discomfort for thee. But not for me.

Bob Boyd म्हणाले...

AOC is such a dope.

But dem jugs doh...

Howard म्हणाले...

Doctrev is a crazy believer in a Jewish Zombie, so it's not surprising he continues to believe in fairytales. You can go back and look at all of his posts but J Farmer is one of the most vocal strong borders folks who post on this blog

J. Farmer म्हणाले...

@Roughcoat:

I wasn't talking about, and made no mention of, Mexicans.

Yeah, you mentioned Cubans. I compared them to Mexicans only in terms of their number to show that they are a rather small percentage of the total Hispanics who are driving growth in the United States.

Their commitment to "traditional American ethos" is irrelevant. That ethos is weakening with each proceeding year.

Zach म्हणाले...

The problem is that some Democrats overinterpreted the 2016 results. They saw Hillary do unexpectedly poorly against Bernie, and lose to Trump.

The interpreted that to mean that they needed to be more populist themselves (probably true) and that socialism would be a good vehicle for that.

The problem is, the electorate was not in a socialist frame of mind, or if it was, it didn't stay that way. Bernie just got beaten comprehensively by a very conventional Democrat who has not run a very great campaign. It's not going to be a contested convention, and there isn't going to be a kingmaking bloc of socialist delegates.

So I don't buy Cortez's logic here. She's representing a minority position in the party that isn't electorally viable in a general election except for fringe districts. Biden's representing the majority position in the party, and there are many elected representatives closer to his positions than hers. "Unity" is going to be more painful for her than for him, because she doesn't have the votes.

J. Farmer म्हणाले...

@etbass:

Farmer, what would you tell Trump to do to address your concern (which is mine as well. I think multiculturalism is totally stupid)? What would you do if you were in his office, given the political situation he deals with?

Unfortunately, Trump is in a much weaker position than the first half of his term because of the change in leadership in the House. While Paul Ryan was the speaker, Trump very foolishly deferred to Ryan's legislative agenda, which was the standard GOP Inc grab bag of policies. Ryan managed to get a lot through the House that was eventually defeated by Senate Republicans. Ryan did get through a tax reform plan and more spending for the military.

Trump should take aggressive action towards illegal aliens and sanctuary cities but should also strongly pursue employers who hire illegals. Unfortunately, illegal immigration is only part of the problem. Solving it won't matter if you don't tackle legal immigration. Trump should look towards immigration restriction organizations like Numbers USA for immigration reform proposals instead of assigning the task to his son-in-law. He shouldn't continue to increase the cap on temporary worker visas. He shouldn't use phrases like "we need the people" and that he wants them to come in the largest numbers ever. He should make the case for a more restrictive immigration policy directly to the American people.

Roughcoat म्हणाले...

Cliff:

Yeah, you mentioned Cubans. I compared them to Mexicans only in terms of their number to show that they are a rather small percentage of the total Hispanics who are driving growth in the United States.

Yeah, well, I did not mention Mexicans. Mentioning them in the context of my saying that Cubans are the rule-proving exception is off-point. That point, not incidentally constituted explicit (mostly) agreement with your original point.

Their commitment to "traditional American ethos" is irrelevant.

No, it's not. Commitment to the ethos is how immigrants become Americans. And it's how the ethos is preserved.

JAORE म्हणाले...

Hey Joe, this is AOC, we need to talk.

Well, I'm kind of busy right now.

I used baby shampoo this morning.

How does 1:30 work for you. I'll e-mail you my address.

AllenS म्हणाले...

Dave Begley said...
The thing I can't get over about AOC is that she graduated with honors, in econ and international relations, from Boston University. She doesn't know a thing. Huge indictment of BU.

Is it any wonder that the colleges that Barack Hussein Obama went to refused to let anyone see any of his records. We all know why, don't we.

J. Farmer म्हणाले...

@daskol:

haha Cliff Clavin is on point, your friendly neighborhood well-meaning but exasperated ethnonatinationalist.

Ha. Norm Peterson was my favorite character. Rebecca was a knockout and could do comedy. Killer combination.

Whatever you think of AOC, you're looking at the future of America. Her vision is gaining strength with each passing day, and the opposition is losing.

Zach म्हणाले...

The thing I could never figure out about the Democratic primary is why so many of the contenders couldn't figure out that Biden's lane was much closer to the median Democratic voter than Bernie's lane.

What if Beto, for example, had run as a moderate? Sanders still would have collapsed, because his policies were always off-puttingly far left of the median Democrat. Then you would have a vigorous young guy who had run an unexpectedly strong campaign in Texas vs an extremely elderly guy who had never won a primary in three decades of trying. You've got to like those odds!

Roughcoat म्हणाले...

I also believe people of non-European ancestry can become good Americans. I must admit to having doubts in that regard about gay men of any ancestry, however. They seem to be overwhelmingly Democrat Party/Progressive in their voting proclivities and whatnot. I'm guessing that you are the exception that proves the rule? Tell me I'm wrong. And prove it.

J. Farmer म्हणाले...

@Roughcoat:

Mentioning them in the context of my saying that Cubans are the rule-proving exception is off-point. That point, not incidentally constituted explicit (mostly) agreement with your original point.

Fair enough. The exception though is mostly true of older Cubans and less true of younger Cubans. The trend will likely continue as we get further away from the Cuban revolution.

No, it's not. Commitment to the ethos is how immigrants become Americans. And it's how the ethos is preserved.

Pledging a commitment as part of the formality of the naturalization process does not demonstrate much of a commitment.

J. Farmer म्हणाले...

@Roughcoat:

I'm guessing that you are the exception that proves the rule? Tell me I'm wrong. And prove it.

Gays are undoubtedly more progressive than conservative, although there are still more of us around than you might think. Particularly on the alt-right interestingly enough.

Nonetheless, gays are pretty small part of the electorate, and their numbers are stable over time. If the US was operating an immigration program that would increase the share of gays to more than 50% of the population, there'd be cause for concern. But since we aren't, there isn't.

Bob Boyd म्हणाले...

What's your definition of the alt-right, Farmer?

Darkisland म्हणाले...

Anyone remember when Amazon was going to build a second 2nd hq in NYC?

Then along came aoc and put the kibosh on that plan.

So where did they decide to build instead? Oh yeah. Nowhere.

Amazon got 250 cities to give them a billion dollars worth of city data, much of it non-public, so they could evaluate those cities for the hq.

After all that, they couldn't very well expose the scam by saying "we've changed our minds. No 2nd hq. But thanks for all the data!"

Nope. They announced NYC.

But they never wanted to build there either and needed a way to "cool the mark" without the mark (nyc) realizing they had been scammed.

If the other rep, the dem who had been there 20 years had still been in, he would have held their feet to the fire.

So, and this is pure speculation, Amazon got AOC elected. She killed the 2nd hq. She took the heat but not even very much of that.

So my real question is: stooge or dupe?

She didn't know she was doing Amazon's bidding? Dupe

She did know? Stooge.

John Henry

MadisonMan म्हणाले...

Maybe AOC is hoping from Biden for a lake-front cottage a la her hero Bernie.

Big Mike म्हणाले...

If Ocasio-Cortez let’s Biden stand behind her, the “coming together” is apt to be very uncomfortable for her!

BUMBLE BEE म्हणाले...

The question is, as Dennis Prager points out, what's next. Progs are driven to attack "problems", as is displayed by the enthusiasm for changing the definitions in the language we speak daily. They need to be the only ones to solve the social riddles they create. What are the next set of problems?

BUMBLE BEE म्हणाले...

Maybe they would live broadcast their phone call?

Big Mike म्हणाले...

but I don’t think he won because Americans don’t want “Medicare for all.”

Did Ocasio-Cortez really say that? Because she’s wrong — about both “Medicare for All” and about the applicability of the word “think” — or any other word implying active cogitation — to her mental processes.

J. Farmer म्हणाले...

@Bob Boyd:

What's your definition of the alt-right, Farmer?

White identity politics.

J. Farmer म्हणाले...

@Bumble Bee:

What are the next set of problems?

Since their goals are utopian, the problems will always exist. And thus their interventions will always be needed.

Kevin म्हणाले...

Interesting that she wants the “coming together” to be “uncomfortable,” but she wants the “truth” to feel good.

The truth always feels good to modern progressives.

The idea of Biden molesting someone doesn't feel good.

That's how they know it's not true.

Kevin म्हणाले...

Biden has promised to bring the entire country together.

If he can't bring 100% of the Democrats together, we'll know he's not up to the job.

Lurker21 म्हणाले...

It's not a true compromise until both parties have sniffed the hair of the other.

Katie Hill would have been okay with that. Bet the party regrets kicking her out of Congress now.

rehajm म्हणाले...

AOC had a minor in econ. At BU you could earn the minor concentration by taking a few of the virtue signaling 'economics' classes about race, climate change, gender. No micro or macro.

doctrev म्हणाले...

Howard said...
You can go back and look at all of his posts but J Farmer is one of the most vocal strong borders folks who post on this blog

4/13/20, 12:28 PM

... Yes, I know that. Most people here do. If you don't know what repatriation means, or that Farmer is much more pessimistic about the balance and therefore is certainly more aggressive about it than I am, please shut the fuck up.

I believe in a Jewish zombie as far as George Soros and Dianne Feinstein obviously fall into that category. I don't have a problem with Moshe the baker or Leah the accountant, if that's what you mean.

DEEBEE म्हणाले...

It’s just a tantrum with a lot of pose. She has already decided to hold her nose to vote for Biden. She wants Biden to hold his nose too, which could give him an aneurysm. Hmmm...

doctrev म्हणाले...

J. Farmer said...
Trump should take aggressive action towards illegal aliens and sanctuary cities but should also strongly pursue employers who hire illegals. Unfortunately, illegal immigration is only part of the problem. Solving it won't matter if you don't tackle legal immigration. Trump should look towards immigration restriction organizations like Numbers USA for immigration reform proposals instead of assigning the task to his son-in-law. He shouldn't continue to increase the cap on temporary worker visas. He shouldn't use phrases like "we need the people" and that he wants them to come in the largest numbers ever. He should make the case for a more restrictive immigration policy directly to the American people.

4/13/20, 12:36 PM

I figured you'd want to go after legal immigration. I take the opposite view: Donald Trump should continue to make positive noises about legal immigration but quietly reduce the numbers of visas generally. Other than the American people themselves, there isn't a huge demand for heavy restriction of visas and there is kamikaze-size opposition to it. Go after illegal immigration all day long, particularly now, and revoke all current visas to Chinese nationals, including green cards. That would have been a heavy lift even assuming the GOP House majority didn't cuck hard to the left. Given the GOPe Senate's chuckservatism on the national emergency at the border (yet ANOTHER reason the President couldn't have easily declared a national emergency on China Flu), we can generally anticipate what would have happened had President Trump tried that: it would be the Racism article at the impeachment trial, and perhaps gained bipartisan support.

buwaya म्हणाले...

As it happens we are currently living in a polity - the Basque Autonomous Region - that was set up through and is politically dominated by identity politics. It has been so for a couple of decades now.

Over here there is a very different attitude towards the concept, for historical reasons certainly, but the underlying culture also. The place occupied by ethnic politics is not clearly right or left.

Basque nationalism has a very powerful whiff of early twentieth century "third way" economics (think Mussolini) plus an institutionalized racial-volk romanticism that would strike many Idaho Aryan Nation characters as a bit over the top.

Yes, any honest system of ideological taxonomy would stick these people in with the Nazis. They even have a swastika - the lauburu, a friendly, curvy (dare I say fluffy?) swastika.

Granted, Bilbao, where we are, is the heart of such cosmopolitanism as they've got around here.

But the reality of life in a place has not all that much to do with neurotic takes on ideological difference. If this, here, is what such ethnic politics can come up with, then you over there should stop worrying so much.

doctrev म्हणाले...

buwaya said...
Basque nationalism has a very powerful whiff of early twentieth century "third way" economics (think Mussolini) plus an institutionalized racial-volk romanticism that would strike many Idaho Aryan Nation characters as a bit over the top.

Yes, any honest system of ideological taxonomy would stick these people in with the Nazis. They even have a swastika - the lauburu, a friendly, curvy (dare I say fluffy?) swastika.

4/13/20, 3:27 PM

WOW! And I thought the Syrian Social Nationalist Party was a little on the nose!

etbass म्हणाले...

Farmer said, "Trump should take aggressive action towards illegal aliens..."

I can agree with what you said Trump should have done. But unfortunately, I think the leftists have won. They have control of the academy, the entertainment, the media, large corporations about half of the political class. Very importantly, they have control of the language. They have it set up now so any discussion of IQ differences, indeed any differences among races and classes of people is a mortal sin worthy of death. So it is impossible to talk about the ruination of our society by importing cultures foreign to the traditional America. It is racist!!

Trump is a brilliant and effective man. I don't see him as a particularly ideological person and likely, while he knows on some level that the importation of foreign cultures has undermined America, he hasn't really thought it through to see how to deal with it, even if he could, given the opposition he is up against. I think he has only temporarily delayed the inevitable. The birth rate dynamics and imbedded immigration policies have won and America is over, IMO.

Steven म्हणाले...

If the Biden campaign wants to win, they should offend AOC and move rightward, not court her by moving leftward.

The ideological self-identification of the US is, per Gallup 2019, 37% conservative, 35% moderate, and 24% as liberal.

In every presidential election 1980-present, the Democrat has become president if he won (per the exit polls) self-identified moderates by 15+ points, and has failed to become president if he or she did not win self-identified moderates by 15+ points.

The correct move for a Democratic campaign for President is not, and is never, compromising leftward for "party unity"; it is openly, directly, and loudly focusing on getting the necessary supermajority support of moderates. The offended cries of the left can help in this, in that they reassure the moderates that the candidate is sane rather than beholden to the loons.

For Republicans, the situation is different, because conservatives roughly equal the number of moderates. A Republican who offends his base has a much harder time making it up in the center. The correct Republican strategy is thus to be steadfastly conservative, and appeal to moderates on the grounds of being a man of principle and integrity.

This is what we see from previous elections:

Mondale and Dukakis demonstrated amply what happens when a Democrat plays the Republican strategy against a Republican playing his native strategy.

Bill Clinton effectively executed the correct Democratic strategy against Republicans who couldn't effectively execute the Republican strategy (Bush because he raised taxes, Dole because of his long centrist record).

Bush-vs-Gore and Clinton-vs-Trump were nail-biters because neither side could execute their party's strategy.

Bush-vs-Kerry was a successful execution of the Republican strategy (made possible by the events of the previous four years) against a failed execution of the Democratic strategy (because he couldn't separate himself from his "Vietnam Veterans Against the War" record).

McCain and Romney demonstrated what happens when a Republican plays the Democratic strategy against a Democrat playing his native strategy. (Yes, Obama executed the moderate strategy. There's a reason Obama was still officially opposed to gay marriage two election cycles after Dick Cheney was for it.)

Biden's ideal play, accordingly, would not be making policy concessions to the Bernie Bros and AOC. It would be something like convincing John Kasich to take the VP slot, with the platform concessions necessary to make Kasich comfortable enough to go with it. The result would be a landslide victory over Trump, who can't possibly convince the moderates he's a conservative-principled man of integrity.

GingerBeer म्हणाले...

AOC is a loud-mouth, dimwitted, know-nothing New Yorker. Don't we have one too many of those already?

Lurker21 म्हणाले...

AOC assumes that she's going to be unsatisfied and unhappy living in capitalist America and supporting capitalist Biden, so she wants Biden and the more moderate wing of the party to feel uncomfortable and uneasy about something themselves. Good luck with Biden. Nothing gets through to the guy anymore. That's one way to stay happy. But the many Bidenites out there are unsatisfied and unhappy about being saddled with a candidate who's barely in command of all his faculties now and not getting any better with time. Alexandria ought to concentrate on getting one of her own camp as VP nominee. If Biden is elected, things could quickly end up with AOC being positively ecstatic about the inevitable outcome.