Why should the people and taxpayers of America be bailing out poorly run states (like Illinois, as example) and cities, in all cases Democrat run and managed, when most of the other states are not looking for bailout help? I am open to discussing anything, but just asking?
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) April 27, 2020
२७ एप्रिल, २०२०
Just asking.
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I could ask the same thing about Puerto Rico.
But I think the answer in our case is to keep us on the Democrat plantation. I can see how that works.
I suspect a similar answer in Illinois but I am not sure I see how it works.
John Henry
The original payoff was democrats negotiating on the same side of the table as the unions, not as responsible opposition.
The right solution is reduce their pension benefits to what they would have been with honest negotiations.
"just asking?"
Good one.
You ask right, Mr. President.
Not a penny for IL pols and pensions.
How dare that man speak the unspeakable!
Why should the taxpayers give to these crooked democrat run states that didn't/wouldn't fully fund their pensions. Stop enabling crooked democrat politicians, just stop it. And stop voting them too, you ignorant liberal democrat dumb-asses.
Mark my words, the day is coming when CA, NY, and IL will need to be bailed out. My plan - if I was king for a day - would be:
1)No bailouts.
2)Those states should be broken up, potentially with parts of the territories going to their neighbors.
3)In the case of CA, give them the option to become their own country, promptly invade (you could split the state in two within about 24 hours with a powerful armored thrust), and make them a 'territory' of the USA. Statehood may be in the cards further down the road.
4)At the federal and state levels, provide new amendments to the constitutions requiring balanced budgets and fiscal responsibility. How that would look I don't know, but IL is a perfect example of the spendthrift theater of the ridiculous other states and this country have been doing for the last 40 years.
Seriously, if they get bailed out, I will begin doing everything in my power to stop paying taxes.
I live within a warren of public school teachers.
"Getting the lobbyists, big money and corporations out of politics" is something of a mania with them.
Occasionally, for fun, I'll point out to them that the teacher's union and its retirement investment bureaucracies are among the biggest big money lobbyists on every level, local, state and federal.
So wait, a State can't promise an unfunded benefit to it's workers/citizens - knowing it's un or under funded for years or decades - and then expect the Federal government to bail it out and keep those promises?
And the citizenry can't magically expect money to fall from the sky to provide for them?*
*Ok, this second sentence sounds facetious but I am shocked at the level of folks around me on a regular basis who seem to think FUNDING a solution or benefit is the last thing anyone should be worried about.
Of course, he's right. And he'd never win NY, NJ, IL and other corrupt states.
I can't think of an easier way for Trump and the R's to carry the entire Midwest (except for Illinois) than to run on a no-bailout for the Cook County machine platform.
BJ Pritzker has his hands at the trough. BJ Pritzker is always at the trough, look at him.
and the answer is: HELL to the NO!
Pelosi is already casting this pension bailout for mismanaged Blue States as the "Heroes Bill" for "first responders".
The incredulous look on even Bill Maher's face while Pelosi is trying to spin this is absolutely priceless!
Every restaurant in NY, CA, and IL is closed, but I guarantee that all the state restaurant inspectors are on full salary.
We must bail out all of Nancy's special interests and install the same-day voter registration, take-as-long-as-you-want-to-count-the-votes and vote-harvesting /sanctuary city bill.
So we need to bail out these states
and pay for universal health care
and pay off student loans
and provide free college for everyone
and fund new green tech development
and open the border and provide all social services for everybody who comes across it
and pay reparations to African-Americans, Native Americans and who knows who all
and pay for an infrastructure rebuilding program
and a bunch of other things I've forgotten
and keep a partial economic shutdown forever for the environment?
No problem.
Wince is right. The next bill to fund the lockdown will include state bail outs.
That's why the economy must be opened.
Explaining the planned vote fraud for November.
A prominent Democratic lawyer who represented Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign [Marc Elias] is threatening to sue the state of Nevada unless it immediately suspends prosecutions for ballot harvesting before the June 9 primary, among a slew of other demands, according to a letter obtained by Fox News on Tuesday.
Writing on April 10 to Nevada Secretary of State Barbara Cegavske, a Republican, Elias first took aim at Nevada Revised Statutes section 293.330(4), which prohibits ballot harvesting and permits only certain individuals, like family members, to return ballots.
It worked in Orange County and in Arizona in 2018.
State governments like Illinois take into fair consideration the fact that government employees could make a lot more money if they worked in the private sector. Government employees accept such lower salaries because of the pensions they receive.
Therefore, reducing pensions for retired government employees is immoral. If necessary, the Federal Government should guarantee that no pensions are reduced.
This was explained to me by my brother who is a government employee.
The GOP need to run ads with Nancy running her mouth.
Geeez she is horrendous. Bullshitter, Inc.
Sounds much like a rhetorical question designed to tell rather than ask. But we knew that already.
A bill for "Heroes" is right up there with "It's for the Children", "I was raised to always tell the truth", and wagging your finger while saying "I did not have sex with that woman", as surefire tells. (And think of all those poor Wisconsinites who faced death, DEATH I tell you, by voting in person.)
"So we need to bail out these states
and pay for universal health care
and pay off student loans
and provide free college for everyone
and fund new green tech development
and open the border and provide all social services for everybody who comes across it
and pay reparations to African-Americans, Native Americans and who knows who all
and pay for an infrastructure rebuilding program
and a bunch of other things I've forgotten
and keep a partial economic shutdown forever for the environment?
No problem."
Yeah, after having done needless great damage to our economy and possibly causing even more deaths than if we had just isolated the sick and let the healthy continue to live their lives normally.
A bit of a tangent, but the MA Secretary of the Commonwealth is running census ads over the past few weeks in which he strongly encourages everyone to complete the census so that the state can get "it's fair share" of the federal outlays to the states.
States keep wanting to extend the shutdown scam.
They seem to ignore that when 80% of the state is not working, this is going to make a YUUGE! drop in revenue from sales taxes, income taxes, gas taxes and other revenue. I suspect that even when the taxes are owed, like property taxes, there will be a lot of delinquencies.
Then what do they do?
Is this perhaps part of PDJT's demonic scheme? Starve the states of revenue and force them to shrink government?
Bwahahahaha
Sounds good to me!
John Henry
The incredulous look on even Bill Maher's face while Pelosi is trying to spin this is absolutely priceless!
But then, when Maher finally responds to Pelosi, he bravely says this, "I thank you for doing this. I hope Trump doesn't steal all that money. I do worry about that. He's done it before."
Sen. Ron Johnson of Wisconsin put forward a proposal to further limit the forgiveness provision of the PPP based on actual need, in an attempt to focus the forgiveness portion on those businesses actually affect in a revenue sense by the lockdowns. Something I've raised here many times.
Facebook Post: PPP Loan Forgiveness Needs Limits
It may be too late to limit access to #PPPLoans to those truly in need, but it isn’t too late to limit forgiveness. In The Wall Street Journal opinion column, I outline my proposal to add forgiveness limitations based on ability to repay, including those granted under the #CaresAct. The program wasn’t meant to provide free money to companies that aren’t affected by coronavirus.
WSJ.COM
Opinion | PPP Loan Forgiveness Needs Limits
The program wasn’t meant to provide free money to companies that aren’t affected by coronavirus.
Why he publicized it behind the WSJ paywall is a mystery to me.
“State governments like Illinois take into fair consideration the fact that government employees could make a lot more money if they worked in the private sector. Government employees accept such lower salaries because of the pensions they receive.”
Except that is no longer true.
The original payoff was democrats negotiating on the same side of the table as the unions, not as responsible opposition.
The right solution is reduce their pension benefits to what they would have been with honest negotiations.
This. See, rh, you're not always dumb.
XXX said...to pay.
'and for all you whiners in Wisconsin who think Illinois should just "suck it up."'
Nah, let em bleed. For one thing it wouldn't buy PDT or the Rs a thing - the Ds regularly astonish the world with their ingratitude. This as a New Yorker who just read in the NYP that NY is looking at a $243 billion shortfall. Better open up fast, Mr Governor.
If State BK is the weapon needed, let there be State BK. Public employees need to be hit hard.
Bob Boyd said...
But then, when Maher finally responds to Pelosi, he bravely says this, "I thank you for doing this. I hope Trump doesn't steal all that money. I do worry about that. He's done it before."
Sure, Maher falls in with the party line at the end, but...
"The eyes, Chico. They never lie."
i have A Modest Proposal:
A) our Coastal Elites (including Great Lakes Elites) KNOW they are better than the middle
B) our Coastal Elites KNOW that they don't need the middle; and, in FACT SUPPORT the middle
C) the middle is pretty darn sick of the fringes tell them what to do/think/act/believe
D) no one (NO ONE!) thinks of this former nation as being one people
so, Let's have a constitutional convention, and agree (peacefully) to end pretending
Split the country up, into two (or several) nations. As the Fleetwood Mac wrote
let us go our own way
What have we got to lose?
Good question. Another one is how much per capita tax each State pays in federal taxes. A quick look at a chart at Wikipedia shows some Democrat states being the top payers. DC is the highest at $38,000 and Mississippi the lowest State at about one tenth of that (Puerto Rico is only at $1,000) . NY and Illinois are in the top 10 with $13,000 and $12,000.
I've suggested to some of my liberal friends that they should become Federalists and fight for a closer correlation between how much a State pays in Federal income tax and the funds they receive. Of course that goes against the progressive element of Federal income tax, but it can be an argument at a time like this.
Figures are from the fiscal year 2015 chart at:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_tax_revenue_by_state
As for XXX suggesting that the counterthreat is Ds dragging/pushing corpses and Negroes over the state line...cool story sis. I'd like to see it. Especially the two-way traffic.
Bob Boyd, 10:46 AM, doesn’t sugarcoat his donuts.
"Stop enabling crooked democrat politicians, just stop it."
What about the crooked Republican politicians?
That sounds like an excellent question for discussion in a Political Philosophy class.
What about the crooked Republican politicians?
I don’t have any doubt that the culture of bribery, and particularly of foreign bribery, is gleefully bipartisan.
"What about the crooked Republican politicians?"
They don't have the crooked liberal media as an ally.
State governments like Illinois take into fair consideration the fact that government employees could make a lot more money if they worked in the private sector.
Your brother is a slacker.
the culture of bribery, and particularly of foreign bribery, is gleefully bipartisan.
Infectious, even. What we need is an effective disinfectant to control the sociopolitical contagion. Either that, or a vaccine, which is never forthcoming. Special and peculiar interests corrupt.
Just ASKING? Or JUST asking? Asking for a friend?
Trump is not afraid of transparent discussion of controversial topics. I greatly value his willingness to force issues into the public arena.
@ Mr. Forward
Damn. Now I want a sugar donut.
Trump's "just asking" routine is just more of his cynical pandering to his boorish base. He doesn't have to actually follow through and withhold any funds...just asking the question enshrines him with a (fool's)golden patina of righteous champion of all that is good and true (sic).
"Asking for a friend"
...we're friends of Trump.
When the sugar-coated going gets tough, the tough make sugar-coated donuts.
That's it! I'm going to the store.
I’d love to support those Pandemic Donuts guys, but I swore off all white flour products and most sugar a year ago to lose 45 pounds.
Donuts are the worst.
Trump hits targets in bulls-eye with amazing precision.
“State governments like Illinois take into fair consideration the fact that government employees could make a lot more money if they worked in the private sector. Government employees accept such lower salaries because of the pensions they receive.”
Their career path choice is their problem, not ours. Private sector people pay 12.4% of their income to SS and still have to contribute to an IRA or 401k. They aren't getting defined benefits pensions paid for by their employers. How many public service employees pay SS taxes? Screw them.
I don’t have any doubt that the culture of bribery, and particularly of foreign bribery, is gleefully bipartisan.
@Shouting Thomas, to which I would add that the Democrats appear to have raised it to an art form.
Yes I agree with the president we need to completely revisit the economic theft from the federal treasury by the red States stealing money from the left-liberal libtard blue States who make all the money just so deplorables can live like hothouse flowers in their contrived rural environment.
Amexpat said...
Good question. Another one is how much per capita tax each State pays in federal taxes. A quick look at a chart at Wikipedia shows some Democrat states being the top payers. DC is the highest at $38,000 and Mississippi the lowest State at about one tenth of that (Puerto Rico is only at $1,000) . NY and Illinois are in the top 10 with $13,000 and $12,000.
I've suggested to some of my liberal friends that they should become Federalists and fight for a closer correlation between how much a State pays in Federal income tax and the funds they receive. Of course that goes against the progressive element of Federal income tax, but it can be an argument at a time like this.
Figures are from the fiscal year 2015 chart at:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_tax_revenue_by_state"
Irrelevant and a dodge. States don't contribute to the federal treasury. That went out with the constitution replacing the Articles Of Confederation. Individual taxpayers do. And individuals such as me who live in a state without state income taxes all else being the same pay a higher percentage of their income to the federal government than those who live in states with state income tax. Trump to his credit, gave those high income Lefty's what wanted, more taxes when he capped the SALT. Screw them again. They deserve it.
Shouting Thomas said...
I live within a warren of public school teachers.
"Getting the lobbyists, big money and corporations out of politics" is something of a mania with them.
Occasionally, for fun, I'll point out to them that the teacher's union and its retirement investment bureaucracies are among the biggest big money lobbyists on every level, local, state and federal.
Excellent.
Sounds like more fun than telling atheists their religion has as much scientific support as Christianity.
ruce Hayden said...
“State governments like Illinois take into fair consideration the fact that government employees could make a lot more money if they worked in the private sector. Government employees accept such lower salaries because of the pensions they receive.”
Except that is no longer true.
100 years ago it was true and Civil Service was founded to protect those poor devoted workers.
Then JFK allowed federal employee unions by an EO. And here we are.
Howard said...
Yes I agree with the president we need to completely revisit the economic theft from the federal treasury by the red States stealing money from the left-liberal libtard blue States who make all the money just so deplorables can live like hothouse flowers in their contrived rural environment.
I agree with Howard that we should reduce the federal government redistribution of wealth.
We all know who would squeal most if that actually happened.
Howard cannot give up his obviously stupid point though.
And for twitter win for the day we have..... President Trump!
If the feds take in SO much money that they have excess it can give to the states, they take in too much money (I know, I know they are broke and running on credit, that too). I know some of those funds are for fed mandates (to offset the costs) and some as bribes like getting the drinking age raised to 21 but none of that should be happening. The fed needs to go back to doing and only doing fed work and leave the states to their work.
If you HATE Trump and think he has too much power, why do you support expanding fed power?
States rights baby!
Let them declare bankruptcy and start over.
All of the cities and states that are begging for more and more money, ignored the immigration laws and now want the country to bail their asses out?? Let them go through the courts. THEY lied and mismanaged for years and years promising their public workers pensions that there is no way the taxpayers can afford..but they got their votes. Tough shit. We're all hurting. I live in NJ...and I hope he doesn't cave. I live in a sanctuary state, where there are still unemployed people who haven't gotten an unemployment check, and out governor is more worried about getting money to illegals. Suck it.
dreams said...
"What about the crooked Republican politicians?"
They don't have the crooked liberal media as an ally.
4/27/20, 11:19 AM
DING DING DING!!!
Howard said...
Yes I agree with the president we need to completely revisit the economic theft from the federal treasury by the red States stealing money from the left-liberal libtard blue States who make all the money just so deplorables can live like hothouse flowers in their contrived rural environment.
It's always nice when the left wingers drop the charade and admit to being the fat cats they demonize in other economic contexts. Why it's almost like they advance principles based on how they foster the attack of the moment instead of drawing them from consistent values.
ST foolishly said...Donuts are the worst.
Donuts are the Best! especially, a forbidden donut
fify!
So both Rick and achilles agree that you deplorables can't pull your own weight in federal taxes. Maybe if you spent more time going to college rather than eating super big gulp happy meals at McDonald's you might be able to pay your own way. Eating out at McDonald's three meals a day is what freedom smells like. It's a right not a privilege
Howard said...
Yes I agree with the president we need to completely revisit the economic theft from the federal treasury by the red States stealing money from the left-liberal libtard blue States who make all the money just so deplorables can live like hothouse flowers in their contrived rural environment.
Woo! Did you come when you wrote that, or are you edging?
I think Constant! Vigilance! is warranted so Democratic States don't ram this through somehow. This would be a most excellent Presidential Debate question. (Except Joe would lie through his teeth when he answered).
Spendthrifts only learn from pain.
I hope the pensioners are not surprised.
All those laws affording protections mean fuck-all once reality intrudes.
Gods of the Copybook Headings, indeed.
Howard said...
So both Rick and achilles agree that you deplorables can't pull your own weight in federal taxes.
While it's a shame Howard is so innumerate he really thinks this conclusion can be drawn from group analysis it's also unsurprising as numerical illiteracy is a precondition to believe as the left believes.
Eating out at McDonald's three meals a day is what freedom smells like. It's a right not a privilege.
I lived in black neighborhoods in Chicago, SF and NYC.
That’s where that model is most heavily practiced, Howard, as I’m sure you know.
The “racial inequality in the coronoavirus epidemic” the Dems keep yapping about is the obesity epidemic in black communities.
I live in Florida, the third most populous state. And that is because so many people are fleeing from the corrupt and incompetent high taxing states. Florida manages to provide a reasonably good services without having a state income. Florida is by its constitution is prohibited from taxing income and from issuing general obligation bonds. The state legislature made it crystal clear to the counties and cities that can issue general obligation bonds that the State will not assume responsibility for those bonds if they default. The State also legislated that civil service pension funds must be funding in accordance to actuarially sound funding by the counties and municipalities. This was put in by then Governor and current US Senator Rick Scott. We also have the Save Our Homes provision in the Florida constitution that caps property taxes on homesteaded properties ( primary residence). I'm not saying that Florida is free of corruption or incompetence, we aren't. But we do have limits on corruption and financial incompetence. If the State of Chicago/Illinois or New York City/New York are in trouble, screw them again. Not Florida's or to the point Floridian's problem. Let them go bankrupt.
Guess what you have no tax revenue, till you open up, it's kind of elementary, of course ny nyc and California, form a wormhole of dysfunction,
Todd said...
And for twitter win for the day we have..... President Trump!
If the feds take in SO much money that they have excess it can give to the states, they take in too much money (I know, I know they are broke and running on credit, that too). I know some of those funds are for fed mandates (to offset the costs) and some as bribes like getting the drinking age raised to 21 but none of that should be happening. The fed needs to go back to doing and only doing fed work and leave the states to their work.
If you HATE Trump and think he has too much power, why do you support expanding fed power?
States rights baby!
Let them declare bankruptcy and start over."
Oddly enough the States haven't availed themselves to using the first ObamaCare Supreme Court ruling where the courts rued the States cannot be coerced by the Federal Government. One would think things like unfunded federal mandates would be on the top of the list state AG's should be litigating.
In English, Rick
Blogger Robert Cook said...
Trump's "just asking" routine is just more of his cynical pandering to his boorish base. He doesn't have to actually follow through and withhold any funds...just asking the question enshrines him with a (fool's)golden patina of righteous champion of all that is good and true (sic).
I think his phrasing of 'just asking' is more to insulate himself politically from the left. It looks like McConnell is going to hold firm on no massive state bailout insisting that the states are looking for money to redress their fiscal mismanagement not pandemic fallout (as a resident of Illinois, who has seen the fiscal mismanagement for decades I think he is right.) He will let McConnell be the Bad Cop, while he paints himself as, perhaps not the Good Cop, but at least the somewhat understanding middle-of-the-road Cop. So let me amend my earlier statement and say that his goal is to save appearances to the moderates in the middle, not the left. Because I don't think the left could ever see Trump as not a bad actor. If the States do get a bailout, it will be the State equivalent of a $1200 check. A smaller, one-time payment meant to shore up a short-term interruption in cash flow.
As far as I know, legally States can not file for Bankruptcy protection currently. If for some reason a Bankruptcy bill passes that adds States, it could very well be a deathblow for public sector unions. Every single State that is in long-term fiscal trouble is there because of State worker retirement and healthcare costs. If those get significantly cut in a Bankruptcy proceeding, Public Sector unions will be rightly seen as largely powerless. this combined with the Janus decision and Public Sector unions will see their rolls plummet as well as their coffers.
Besides the fact that if several Blue States were to default and thus having to cut back drastically on non-essential services is that they will be shut out of the bond market for years if not decades. Or pay exorbitant risk premium interest rates. That will be a cautionary tale for all the rest and reallocated capital to the private sector where it will result in more growth.
State governments like Illinois take into fair consideration the fact that government employees could make a lot more money if they worked in the private sector. Government employees accept such lower salaries because of the pensions they receive
A true statement- Before the invention of the internet Massachusetts used to make this claim (pretty much verbatim from the text, which is suspicious). Then one day the salaries showed up on the internets and taxpayers were shocked to learn how many state troopers 'patrolling' the airport were making mid six figures, how many no-show jobs there were, how much we rewarded Whitey Bulger's brother to be the 'President' of UMass.
I suspect states still making the claim don't easily disclose government employee salaries and pensions....
In English, Rick
You're an idiot Howard.
If somewhere there's any truth to it I'm sure those public sector employees would gladly give up the sweetheart pensions and accept private sector equilibrium in salary and retirement benefits, right?
Is there any talk of requiring bailout recipients to change their ways or take any kind of cost cutting measures?
They do not plan to stop digging.
These states and cities fucked themselves and only they can un-fuck themselves.
What about the crooked Republican politicians?
Show me a state run by Republicans that is in as bad a shape as New York, Illinois or California.
Show me a city run by Republicans in as bad a shape as Los Angeles, San Francisco, Chicago, Baltimore, or New York.
As my son-in-law said to me yesterday, Stupid knows no political party.
Although i will say, California will never, never ask for a bailout.
And, if you'll notice, all of the Democratic states he mentioned, and there are 28 of them, are states and governors he has had his troubles with. They will not bow to the almighty Trump and kiss his feet. They are to be punished.
Vicki from Pasadena, CA
Is there any talk of requiring bailout recipients to change their ways or take any kind of cost cutting measures?
The private sector funds come with so many unpalatable strings many companies that need capital avoid it. It wouldn't take much to make bailout money unpalatable to Cuomo and the rest of the left.
Let's see...
@ Vicki
I usually ignore your posts as meaningless shit posts. but I'm curious.
Although i will say, California will never, never ask for a bailout.
Apparently you missed the times when California has already gone running to the federal government for bailouts of one type or another. Money for forest fires, money for drought, money for homeless, money for illegal immigrants, money for a high speed train to nowhere....
What about the crooked Republican politicians?
Surely, even Cook should be able to recognize the NeverTrump deep state LLRs. Crony capitalism is odious no matter who is doing it, and that's why Trump is doing so well among his base who want to drain the swamp. We know who the enemy is, and they're not just the lefties.
- Krumhorn
funny how that works,
https://www.worldoil.com/news/2020/4/27/wall-street-is-feeling-the-pressure-to-stop-arctic-oil-funding
I am pessimistic about keeping the federal government from bailing out the blue states. Sooner or later there will come a time when they have the power to do it. It only takes once. That's how we got ObamaCare.
And, if you'll notice, all of the Democratic states he mentioned, and there are 28 of them, are states and governors he has had his troubles with. They will not bow to the almighty Trump and kiss his feet. They are to be punished.
Vicki from Pasadena, CA
If so: GOOD
They will not bow to the almighty Trump and kiss his feet. They are to be punished.?
I certainly hope so. Thanks, Vicki.
Yes, Vicki, California needs a good hard kick in the ass.
Every single State that is in long-term fiscal trouble is there because of State worker retirement and healthcare costs. If those get significantly cut in a Bankruptcy proceeding, Public Sector unions will be rightly seen as largely powerless.
Except a leftist judge in CA ruled that Stockton, in its bankruptcy case, could not renegotiate union contracts.
“The City has made a smart decision to protect pensions and find a reasonable path forward to a more fiscally sustainable future, she said. ”We will continue to champion the integrity and soundness of public pensions – to protect the benefits that were promised to the active and retired public employees who participate in the CalPERS pension plan.”
In recent years, pensions have been a political hot potato in Stockton. Overly large pensions approved by city officials for employees are among the reasons Stockton found it could no longer pay its bills, critics say.
What about the crooked Republican politicians?
Cook has never read Angelo Codevilla's essay on "The Ruling Class." I'd add a link but I know he would not read it.
Howard said...
Yes I agree with the president we need to completely revisit the economic theft from the federal treasury by the red States stealing money from the left-liberal libtard blue States who make all the money just so deplorables can live like hothouse flowers in their contrived rural environment."
Howard is making a great argument on limiting the vote at all levels to net taxpayers at each level. Excellent idea Howard! I heartily approve and what's more that is inline with the founder's desires. Attaboy! I knew that someday you would come to you senses.
Some data on state contributions to federal coffers and state receipts of federal largess.
It does not appear, on a per-capita basis that Red states are takers and blue are givers.
https://thefederalist.com/2017/11/17/red-states-tax-takers-blue-states-tax-makers/
Against a national average of $1,935 in intergovernmental spending per American, red states receive just $1,879. Blue states get considerably more, at $2,124 per resident. Purple states see the least of their money returned to them per capita, at just $1,770.
So both Rick and achilles agree that you deplorables can't pull your own weight in federal taxes. Maybe if you spent more time going to college rather than eating super big gulp happy meals at McDonald's you might be able to pay your own way. Eating out at McDonald's three meals a day is what freedom smells like. It's a right not a privilege
As usual, Howard, like most lefties, is only comfortable if he can sneer smugly down his snout at the deplorables fully confident in his superiority. And his presumed monopoly on virtue obscures the lies he and his ilk spread about tax receipts and federal distribution. The blue states receive considerable more from the the feds per person than the red states. The purple states receive the least.
And while it is true that the blue states contribute more in federal taxes, that money is not paid by the likes of Howard. Because of the high concentration of high income hedge fund types and silicon valley types and investment banker types in blue states, most of the taxes paid are collected from the 1%. Howard and his fellow socialists and antifa thugs ain't in that group. The 1% don't live in Paducah. But Texas and Florida are 3 and 4 on the tax contributing list.
Fortunately, the deplorables will deal Howard and the lefties another whack this November. He can sneer at THAT.
- Krumhorn
Howard said...
In English, Rick
He is calling you stupid Howard.
"Red states are takers" meme rests on calling Florida a red state for the most part. It also ignores the fact the in the red states that do get a lot of federal largesse, the actual recipients are still majority Democrats.
Blogger victoria said...
As my son-in-law said to me yesterday, Stupid knows no political party.
Although i will say, California will never, never ask for a bailout.
And, if you'll notice, all of the Democratic states he mentioned, and there are 28 of them, are states and governors he has had his troubles with. They will not bow to the almighty Trump and kiss his feet. They are to be punished.
Vicki from Pasadena, CA"
Vickie look up R A Heinlein quotes on stupidity. Those 28 are punishing themselves.
I'm asking too.
Why should I or any Virginian pay for the taxpayer-ripoff gold-plated pensions that Illinois and other states have conspired with the unions to giveaway to a privileged class?
Thanks, Achilles!
Yancey Ward said...
"Red states are takers" meme rests on calling Florida a red state for the most part. It also ignores the fact the in the red states that do get a lot of federal largesse, the actual recipients are still majority Democrats."
Even in the Blue States and Blue Counties the bulk of the top taxpayers are mostly Republicans.
It may be too late to limit access to #PPPLoans to those truly in need, but it isn’t too late to limit forgiveness.
Yeah, it is too late to limit forgiveness once the loan agreements have been performed.
The Constitution prohibits government impairment of contracts, plus it also prohibits government bait-and-switch practices that change the rules in the middle of the game under principles of government estoppel and detrimental reliance.
Jesus Krumhorn I thought you were a real mans man not a whiny crybaby like shouting Thomas. I got to tell you I hope Trump wins cuz that means we dodged a bullet with Coronavirus. If he loses that means he listen to you people too much and turned it into a giant shitstorm.
I'm betting on Trump to do the right thing because rational self-interest.
Except a leftist judge in CA ruled that Stockton, in its bankruptcy case, could not renegotiate union contracts.
Just looking at the article that looks like an individual case, by an individual judge at the district level, so no binding authority. Plus in order for States to file bankruptcy it would still require a change to the Federal Bankruptcy Code. Presumably they could amend any statutory problems with adjusting pension obligations with that amendment. Plus a Bankruptcy at the state level would only happen when shit hits the fan. And imagine a fair number of Democrats would see their political support for state workers drop, when it becomes an issue of whether or not there is money for schools, roads, police and fire to keep them running currently versus ensuring their retired-at-55 state worker neighbor continues to receive the entirety of the six-figure a year pension for the next 30 years.
https://dnyuz.com/2020/04/27/can-estrogen-and-other-sex-hormones-help-men-survive-covid-19/
More evidence that you people have a natural immunity to covid-19
The situation with the state pensions and books in New Jersey, New York, Illinois, Connecticut are not new. They have continued to screw their population to pump up ridiculous payouts to government employees and unions. The deficit has been huge for years, and every rare attempt to rein it in is put down swiftly and harshly. I do believe they have always felt that in the end, the US would pick up the tab because you cannot let Illinois go bust, can you?
Well, yes. Actually you can. Detroit went through a bankruptcy. It's time these states did the same. It is the only way you'll get those pension payouts to go down to a doable level, the only way to get some of the debt cut down. They will have to declare bankruptcy and follow a road back to being run properly. However, in the case of Illinois, good luck with Mr. Hyatt in there.
Go to transparentcalifornia.com and type in the name Smith under pensions. The values shown are annual payments to pensioners. Try not to throw-up. California and all who live there are frakked.
Well, yes. Actually you can. Detroit went through a bankruptcy. It's time these states did the same. It is the only way you'll get those pension payouts to go down to a doable level,
Yeah, I think lots of people mistakenly see it as a binary of either they get their entire state pension or they don't get any. When in reality it is just a question of how much will a person get. And ironically, the longer and more the left and public sector unions protest any means to adjust obligations, the worse and more draconian those eventual cuts to obligations will be.
As a longtime U.S. taxpayer, i could swear I remember us many, many times bailing out states like Texas, Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi, Florida, and Georgia in my adult lifetime.
And before that, the taxpayers of NY, NJ, PA and New England subsidized modernization of infrastructure in backward southern states. Of course, many of the residents of KY, TN, and AR may very well be much happier if they still had the joy of stumbling to their outhouses by candle light after dark. Their cultural high-water marks were in the 19th century, and many of their denizens would love to return to those days when they lived high off the hog.
I always thought that was more or less understandable, OK even, for us to contribute to the uplifting of our more rusticated American brethren, and in keeping with the expectations of U.S. citizenship as I learned them in civics class so long ago. But after 40 years of the Us-versus-Them mentality the WPP has been peddling, perhaps I should adjust my views.
And before that, the taxpayers of NY, NJ, PA and New England subsidized modernization of infrastructure in backward southern states.
I suspect that the "subsidy" you refer to was the moving of large numbers of residents of those states to the south after air conditioning. I would be interested to see any examples of tax payer subsidy aside from the construction of military bases in the milder climates of the south.
Just looking at the article that looks like an individual case, by an individual judge at the district level, so no binding authority.
It was binding on Stockton, which was filing under Chapter 9. States would require the law be changed,.
Back up the bus...
Those pensions are contracts.
The blue-collar workers -- stop thinking of tenured overpaid educators and administrators and think of "body" jobs, physical work, bus drivers or trash collectors, say, or cops -- they did their jobs, showed up, lived to collect, and now they deserve to be paid.
You can't welsh on your promises because you overspent
This shows how little people understand about bankruptcy. In bankruptcy all contracts existent as of the filing date are voidable. Arguing that a pension is a contract makes exactly the opposite point of this comment: that they are voidable and therefore negotiable.
Jesus Krumhorn I thought you were a real mans man not a whiny crybaby like shouting Thomas.
Real men don't go around crying about little things like the suspension of civil liberties and house arrest.
Are you on the CCP payroll, Howard?
This Biggus Dickus thing of yours is going overboard against, Howard.
You sure you aren't a fag?
Jesus Krumhorn I thought you were a real mans man not a whiny crybaby like shouting Thomas. I got to tell you I hope Trump wins cuz that means we dodged a bullet with Coronavirus. If he loses that means he listen to you people too much and turned it into a giant shitstorm.
I'm betting on Trump to do the right thing because rational self-interest
Jesus has nothing to do with it, Howard. Trump has done just fine all things considered. He even picked a fight with the Georgia governor who opened the state too soon in Trump's opinion.
I said early on that if the US walks away with 2.2 million dead, it would be a win. That would represent a mortality rate of around .6%. Unless an effective vaccination materializes before the next wave, we could still see some big numbers since the rest of us have squirreled away in our lairs without gaining any potentially useful antibodies. Meanwhile, rather than getting exposed this time around, we have completely wrecked the economy for millions of people who need a paycheck to survive including the rest of us who don't have that immediate requirement.
Here in Leftiefornia, we've been treated to the diktats of politicians who certainly do love to exercise their power. Garcetti said it best when he announced the house arrests: "It's not a request. It's an order".
This, Howard, is why we have the Second Amendment.
- Krumhorn
Blogger gilbar said...
A) our Coastal Elites (including Great Lakes Elites) KNOW they are better than the middle
That reminds me that a few years ago Vermont Senator Lehey got a bill passed making Lake Champlain the 6th "Great Lake". It is a pretty good lake, it has cleaned up nice in recent years. But at 406 square miles, compared to Ontario's 7500, it is hardly great.
But those Vermonters wanted to be part of the Great Lakes Elite.
Actually the reason for the bill was so they could qualify for some sweet, sweet, funding that was going to states bordering on the real great lakes.
Biull Clinton signed it into law.
The status was repealed after 18 days of ridicule.
And Vermonters still are not elite, much as folks like Bernie like to think they are. They are, mostly, just good, decent, nice people.
John Henry
I like the question.
Back in the 80's or 90's when they still had toll booths and toll collectors, even for exact change lanes, on the NJ Turnpike, a friend of mine explained how it worked.
They made $40-50,000 per year. For a job that required less skill or stress than working in McDonalds. But the real kicker was in the pension. It did not look bad on the surface. 60-70% of their average last years earnings or something like.
The racket was, in their last year before retirement, they would work overtime like crazy, getting their pay up into the 6 digits.
Then the tool collector who nominally earned $40m, wound up retiring with 70% of $100m. Not far south of twice what they made normally.
And I think it took 30 years to retire.
Toll taker jobs were hard to get, controlled by the union, and you had to be God's own nephew to get one. Since it is govt, Wagner didn't apply and it was a closed shop. The TP could only hire union members.
None of this union shop nonsense where private companies can hire who they like and the union has to let them in.
John Henry
Here is the story of the breaking food chain.
Howard may get hungry. He and Nancy can eat $13 ice cream, I guess.
First: State, Local, and Federal workers all differ. And even state and local Benefit package stands on their own. Its not all the same.
Two: If you decided Government workers were "losers" and went for the bigger buck in the commercial world 10-20-30 years ago, then shut the fuck up. You're just jealous. You made your choice and now you're sad. Tough.
And I write that as someone in the commercial world. But I have relatives who became school Teachers because they wanted to work with kids, and the summer off. They make a lot less than me, but had job security.
And Vermonters still are not elite, much as folks like Bernie like to think they are. They are, mostly, just good, decent, nice people.
I graduated from high school in Bennington. They were lovely, rock-ribbed, sensible folks. The only loons were the vagina-endowed hippies at Bennington College.
Since then, a toxic cloud of leftie mold spores got caught in the onshore winds and drifted up from Brooklyn and Boston contaminating the place Bernie style. You wouldn't recognize the place now.
- Krumhorn
I have lived in Illinois since 1970. You cannot begin to imagine how poorly this state has been run by politicians of both parties, but the Demmies really are worse.
In Wisconsin, you actually funded your pension plans, so a lot of things can work. In Illinois, we goosed up the benefits and consistently underfunded the plans, so nothing can work.
I have a friend from River Forest who says, "We all think we own these nice houses out here, but we really just rent them from the Teachers' Union." He is pretty much right, as we here in the Land of Lincoln are about to find out.
We have paid too much to too many for public services, largely in unrealistic retirement benefits, although pay is also high. Add in a stumblebum like Gov. Jabba Pritzker, and a cold wind is going to blow.
As a matter of giving credit where it is due, the extraordinary Donna Tartt is a Bennington College grad. She's no loon.
- Krumhorn
Bernie caught the socialist dreams of the 1930s through the 1960s. His politics are identical with those of Walter Reuther of the UAW, the hard-nosed dreamer who made Detroit the richest city in the USA and unknowingly set his union and his city up for a crushing, demoralizing, and ultimately horrifying fall. Detroit 1950 population: 1,859,000. 2020 population: 673,000.
The other city to suffer a similar fall was St. Louis. 1950 population: 800,000.
2020 population: 302,000.
Both cities were and are industrial union strongholds.
In Illinois, it is the public employee unions that are going to bring us down.
Not to self-doxx, but I was shocked to find that the library at Bennington College bears my family name. The Horror!
But MSNBC and CNN told me that the stupid Trump voters were going to get hurt the most because they didn't trust experts. They got it half right.
There are two points of discussion:
1. They should or should not be bailed out as part of pandemic response.
2. They should or should not be bailed out without regard to pandemic response.
As with Harvard taking the small business loan money, I think case number one should be considered way out of bounds.
Case 2 has and will continue to be a point of contention in the future. I personally believe that in either case the states are, and should remain, responsible for the liabilities they willingly incurred, as they did so on behalf of their own electorates and without external coercion.
@ Krumhorn,
I grew up in a one-blinking-light town in northern Vermont and my high school encompassed five separate school districts because the towns were so small. Most kids were from families who were in agriculture, logging, or other small-town oriented business. Some did well in the maple industry and have thriving companies. My dad was a lineman for the local utility. Yes, they were all decent, nice people, just trying to make a living in a tough, unforgiving place.
We also had a state college campus that tended to cater to the middling students who really really wanted to go to UVM but the out of state tuition was more than their grades would justify. (This was back when VT still had an 18 year old drinking age.) All of those flatlanders who went to school then in the 70s and 80s are the ones who stayed, and their hellspawn have ruined an otherwise decent state. Even the nominal "conservative" governor is nothing but a wolf in sheep's clothing.
A couple of years ago a friend of mine and I had a discussion about what the next great "bubble" was going to be. I believed at the time that underfunded state pensions would be the catalyst for the next economic cratering. That day of reckoning may be at hand. As any economist will tell you, something that can't be sustained, won't.
"In Wisconsin, you actually funded your pension plans, so a lot of things can work. In Illinois, we goosed up the benefits and consistently underfunded the plans, so nothing can work."
In the Wisconsin pension plan, if the plans assets (stocks, bonds, etc.) go down, payments to the beneficiaries go down as well. This makes it a lot more stable. I think the structure is fairly unique.
I read her secret history, when it came out about 30 years,
I believed at the time that underfunded state pensions would be the catalyst for the next economic cratering.
Student loans are in competition for the fuckup award,.
Since then, a toxic cloud of leftie mold spores got caught in the onshore winds and drifted up from Brooklyn and Boston contaminating the place Bernie style. You wouldn't recognize the place now.
When I was living in New Hampshire, if you saw a crappy car with rusty license plates, it was a Vermont car. They would come across the river to shop in West Lebanon at Walmart.
When the government pension plans fail, take the remaining assets and put them into social security. Then send out appropriately sized social security checks.
BleachBit-and-Hammers said...
The GOP need to run ads with Nancy running her mouth."
The clip of her showing off her $24,000 freezer stocked with ice cream that costs $12 a pint is truly a classic.
"Let them eat ice cream," says Nancy-Antoinette.
“I've suggested to some of my liberal friends that they should become Federalists and fight for a closer correlation between how much a State pays in Federal income tax and the funds they receive. Of course that goes against the progressive element of Federal income tax, but it can be an argument at a time like this.”
The logical end point of this is for people in states to pay nothing in federal income tax and pay it to the state, cut out the middle man. I might be sympathetic with that, except for common defense.
Why, indeed?
“Trump to State: Drop Dead”
Love that it's not OK to help actual human beings who are dying, but it's perfectly fine to bail out corporate billionaires, banks, airlines, and f*cking tax evading Carnival Cruise Line. Priorities, huh.
The states lost taxes
because they ORDERED a lockdown.
They should pay for their lockdown.
> bail out corporate billionaires, banks, airlines, and f*cking tax evading Carnival Cruise Line. Priorities, huh.
Businesses were ordered to close, and people were ordered to "shelter in place".
Its not a bailout if you ordered closure.
You have to pay for what you order.
Blue states want MONEY PRINTER GO BRRR!
"State governments like Illinois take into fair consideration the fact that government employees could make a lot more money if they worked in the private sector."
Utter bullshit.
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