UPDATE: The GOP legislators took it to the state Supreme Court and won, 4-2. The election is back on for Tuesday.
Evers made his move four days after he said he had no legal authority to change the election. Republicans used the governor's own words against him as they took their case to the state Supreme Court.Justice Kelly, who’s up for reelection, recused himself.
UPDATE 2: The U.S. Supreme Court ruled today, not on the dispute described above, but on a federal judge’s extension of the deadline for mailing in absentee ballots. The Court rejected the extension.
पोस्ट्स
२६२ टिप्पण्या:
262 पैकी 1 – 200 नवीन› नवीनतम»Polls must not be looking good for democrats.
Expect them to push hard for an all mail election.
I don't see how this is legal.
I feel like pushing the Nov Election to 2021. It's the only way to stay safe.
And at the last possible minute. That was deliberate.
No time to go to federal court and stop this. The civil rights of Badgers are being violated. There is a federal component to this election.
US Supreme Court off the hook.
Richard Epstein says that there are so many smart minds on all sides of the issue creating briefs for the courts that the courts want to stay out of it.
This is what true fascism looks like.
The health affects of COVID-19 are going to look like a trivial issue by the end of the year compared to the bullshit that has been and will be carried out under it's banner.
The social fabric of our country is being torn apart right in front of your faces.
The thin veneer of civilization is translucent right now.
Liberal fascism arrives in Wisconsin.
Evers must feel it important to disenfranchise the many in order not to disenfranchise the few. This is faulty logic.
MadisonMan said...
I don't see how this is legal.
I am sure there is something in the Wisconsin Constitution giving Evers this power. They found abortion in the US constitution for fucks sake.
I feel like pushing the Nov Election to 2021. It's the only way to stay safe.
I feel like this is a good way to dissolve the Republic.
I bet Althouse approved of his actions.
I thought Evers said he DID NOT have the power, which is why he asked the Legislature? What the fuck. Look its always the same. you can NEVER Trust the Democrats to obey the law, play by the rules, or do anything because of General principle. All they respect or care about sheer naked political power.
I'm glad the R's are taking this to court. Hopefully, the court will overturn the Governor's decision. If Evers had truly thought this was the way to go, he could have issued an Executive order last week. But y'know.
How does this compare to what happened in Ohio?
rcocean said...
I thought Evers said he DID NOT have the power, which is why he asked the Legislature? What the fuck. Look its always the same. you can NEVER Trust the Democrats to obey the law, play by the rules, or do anything because of General principle. All they respect or care about sheer naked political power.
That was back when Evers thought democrats would benefit from the economy tanking and the fallout from this "disaster."
Now he is seeing polls.
Democrats want nothing to do with an honest election in November.
For the Republicans that want to gather indoors in confined spaces can still do so, have a Covid party, now that you can’t go vote in person.
That’s sarcasm, BTW.
Why didn’t you Wisconsinites get your absentee ballots? There was sufficient time to do so.
Impeach!
Readering said...
How does this compare to what happened in Ohio?
One happened a week or so ago and another one happens in 8 months when we will clearly be past this.
Achilles:
You or someone else here has written about the "thin veneer of civilization."
I took a course on the French Revolution in college and that was a major theme of the class. And it could happen here. The libs and the media don't really understand how dangerous this shut down is.
I get that people are scare, but the rule of law still matters. If the rule of law no longer matters because people are "really, really, scared" we are fucked.
He had to destroy the election in order to save it.
I laughed at the people who said Trump would cancel the November election because I considered such an action beyond the pale.
It may have been reasonable to postpone it, but the way this gov. did it seems pretty goddamn awful and overreaching. Waiting to the last minute? I mean, good grief.
So if governors and others claim powers they don't have, what do we, the public, do about it?
Does Evers eat while reclining? Does someone peel his grapes? Is he particular for the color purple? Has he learned to fiddle?
Ah, Northern Madrurostan. I'd be more sympathetic to the Governor if he hadn't gone to the legislature, been rebuffed, and decided to cancel the election anyways. As it is... I really should thank him for setting the precedent. Between Cuomo looting upstate New York and this, Donald Trump will be in excellent position to do whatever he wants.
SIC TEMPER TYRANNUS
Good.
Voted absentee, but as people like Ann struggled to make that work I am happy they get to vote safely.
All Dems are committed to stopping Jacksonian Populism and its damned elections
"It could end up in the Supreme Court yet today, but the bottom line is the people of Wisconsin, they don’t care about the fighting between Democrats and Republicans —they're scared," Evers said in an interview with the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. "I'm standing up for them. I'm standing up for those people who are afraid and that's why I'm doing this."
How can anybody defend this? If people are "scared" the governor can cancel an election that over 700,000 people have already voted in?
First they came for the economy, now they are going after the polity. What's left when the left is done?
To quote Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Tinkering by Evers left to chance.
You know how nobody could break the 4 minute mile, and then Roger Bannister did and then a few more did and now everybody does?
I am concerned that's what is happening right now.
"And at the last possible minute. That was deliberate."
Naked power grab.
Pray, tell progs, what else can governors do--suspend habeas corpus? dissolve the courts? empty prisons?
If they can decide not to hold elections, against the express wishes of the legislature, without AFAIK any basis in law, what can't they do?
“The libs and the media don't really understand how dangerous this shut down is.”
Governor of Ohio, Mike DeWine is a Republican. How was his decision any different than Governor Evers of Wisconsin? Is De wine a fascist too? Is the Supreme Court of Ohio Fascist too?
“Early Tuesday morning, the Ohio Supreme Court denied a challenge to the state's last-minute postponement of Tuesday's presidential primary elections, meaning the election is off.
A judge rejected Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine's initial request to cancel in-person voting and move the state's March 17 presidential primary to June to mitigate the spread of the novel coronavirus.
But DeWine announced late on Monday night that despite the court order, the Ohio Department of Health would order all the polls to be closed pursuant to a public health emergency and seek to expand vote-by-mail in the courts.”
https://www.businessinsider.com/ohio-postpones-march-17-primary-until-june-cancels-in-person-voting-2020-3
Here’s a list of States postponing their Primaries.
"I am concerned that's what is happening right now."
Pandora's Box.
Inga, to answer the questions you posed at 1:47. Yes.
"Governor of Ohio, Mike DeWine is a Republican. How was his decision any different than Governor Evers of Wisconsin? Is De wine a fascist too?"
Yes. Next question.
He should have called the special session of the legislature when he signed a stay at home order that covered election day. Evers is not without blame in this.
Inga- I didn't really agree with Mike DeWine's ability to do it, either.
I see I don't need to pile on regarding Inga's question.
It's hard to see how this is legitimate. IF an election needs to be delayed, the time to do so is before it starts. What Evers is trying to do is not to "delay" an election but to interrupt one that is already in progress.
I would have been in favor of delaying this election before it started, but by now hundreds of thousands of people have already voted.
Interrupting an election that is in progress is not essentially different from having government agents enter polling places and close them.
"Put down that pen and back away from the voting booth! Everyone out of this building, now!"
Does Evers have the authority? I don't know, but I don't see why the Wisconsin Supreme Court could not issue an injunction preventing him from doing this.
Inga: "Why didn’t you Wisconsinites get your absentee ballots? There was sufficient time to do so."
These are the same democrats who claim ID's for voting are too difficult for some to get so Voter ID laws cannot be allowed.
But that was yesterday. Today is a new day, requiring new talking points which obliterate talking points going back 20 years.
Or not.
Because history began anew 15 minutes ago...so who can say?
All I know is elected Dems are now calling for Trump to charged with Crimes Against Humanity in the World Court, other elected dems are doubling down on the "virus is a hoax" hoax, and the entire DC democrat establishment is all on Sham-peachment III and defending the ChiComs.
Federal court hearing at 2:30. Judge Pepper. That was quick. GOP must have guessed that the Governor would pull this last minute trick.
The pall of fascism is forever descending on the right, but always lands on the left.
How can he possibly have the authority to do this?
Judge Pamela Pepper. Obama appointee. Not a UW grad. Born in 1964. Not a former student of Althouse's. Not optimistic.
"How can he possibly have the authority to do this?"
He has a phone and a pen.
Inga said...
“The libs and the media don't really understand how dangerous this shut down is.”
Governor of Ohio, Mike DeWine is a Republican. How was his decision any different than Governor Evers of Wisconsin? Is De wine a fascist too? Is the Supreme Court of Ohio Fascist too?
Absolutely.
Chavez and Muduro would be proud. What if Trump tried to delay the fall election. Yeah, that's what I thought
Wow, strange times indeed. I agree with Inga.
The "danger" comes from NOT postponing the primary. It would be dangerous to let it continue. It would literally guarantee the spread of the virus.
There was criticism of Governor DeWine here in Ohio because of the confusion following the surprise rejection by the court, which he (or more accurately, Dr. Acton) then overruled. People were told conflicting things, so there was some frustration. But every one understood why it was necessary. The complaints were mainly about mismanaged communication, but not about the decision itself. Even the local Dems were respectful of the Governor's decision.
Do you know who was the most grateful, despite having the rug pulled out from under them? The poll workers, which included many elderly. They thanked Gov. DeWine profusely.
Fifteen states and one territory
Alaska-R
Connecticut-D
Delaware-D
Georgia-R
Hawaii-D
Indiana-R
Kentucky-D
Louisiana-D
Maryland-R
New York-D
Ohio-R
Pennsylvania-D
Rhode Island-D
West Virginia-R
Wyoming-R
and Puerto Rico-
— have either pushed back their presidential primaries or switched to voting by mail with extended deadlines.
Ooops add Wisconsin to my list above, lol.
Rcocean:
How many times did Obama say he lacked authority to declare DACA? Then after he did, there was some idiot judge to say undoing it was unconstitutional.
By the way, in Ohio, the authority was via a public health order because of an emergency. The Ohio Supreme Court affirmed it the next day. So the local Supremes did not consider it an unconstitutional power grab.
The primary is a red herring.
Inga said...
Fifteen states and one territory
Alaska-R
Connecticut-D
Delaware-D
Georgia-R
Hawaii-D
Indiana-R
Kentucky-D
Louisiana-D
Maryland-R
New York-D
Ohio-R
Pennsylvania-D
Rhode Island-D
West Virginia-R
Wyoming-R
and Puerto Rico-
— have either pushed back their presidential primaries or switched to voting by mail with extended deadlines.
All people who want to disenfranchise voters.
If the virus is still around in November- or there is news of its resurgence- who here would support putting off the national election? And if you do, by what means? An order of Trump? Or a vote of Congress? Or declarations by governors, or what?
Tinkering by Evers left to chance.
The saddest of possible words.
Single handed? I also see on the order the signature of Wisconsin Secretary of State Douglas La Follette.
“ Tinkering by Evers left to chance.”
Fucking brilliant.
Why do state governments run primary elections in the first place? Shouldn't the parties do that themselves?
i guess, this WAS the ONLY choice. as we All KNOW,
there is NO WAY to prevent your infection with this virus (other than, washing your hands)
If people went out and physically voted...
unless they were willing to wash their hands...
before sticking their fingers into their mouths and eyes....
They stood a MEASURABLE Chance, of becoming infected.
So, since there is ABSOLUTELY, NO WAY to prevent infection (other than something Truly draconian; like washing your hands before sticking your fingers into your mouth)...
We Have NO CHOICE, but to cancel; not only our economic society... But Democracy itself
Case Closed
After all; it's not like we allow voting; if there's a blizzard, do we?
You people will just have to work harder to disenfranchise Milwaukee minority voters.
"Federal court hearing at 2:30. Judge Pepper. That was quick. GOP must have guessed that the Governor would pull this last minute trick."
That can't be because of Evers' action. Pepper is on the Lena Taylor lawsuit. Why would State GOP go to the feds to decide an issue of state law when Rs are the State Supreme Court majority?
"Single handed? I also see on the order the signature of Wisconsin Secretary of State Douglas La Follette."
Not from around here, are you?
Dave Begley @ 1:34: "...I took a course on the French Revolution in college and that was a major theme of the class. And it could happen here. The libs and the media don't really understand how dangerous this shut down is."
This. I am reading Jeremy Popkin's new history of the French Revolution, "A New World Begins," and it keeps showing how that happens. One after another, the conventions and traditions and laws and customs are challenged, debated, adjusted, adjusted further, then peremptorily abolished. One by one, "impure" and "seditious" thinkers and rivals are questioned, arrested, "tried," and sent to oblivion. Each step prepares the way for the next. The progression is insidious and inexorable. After the king was executed (January 1793) there was, I think, no stopping it.
I keep closing the book, grateful to think that it's just a book about something that isn't happening here. Ha.
Evers Tinkers. Double Play. Nothing left to chance.
This is how the Spanish Republic started down the road to totalitarianism.
"Darrell said...
Tinkering by Evers left to chance"
Haha! How long have you had that one in the chamber?
There is enough time before November to make all voting by mail in ballot.
Amazing. After the EU dissolved back into a bunch of states, we shouldn't be surprised at how politics is playing out this year. But I am surprised at how poor Evers' timing is. I mean, what did he learn since last Monday that made a difference? What an idiot move. I'll now scan to see if anyone burped up "Better late than never" ahead of me, and if so I'll think up something stupid to write back. This governor just proved that saying untrue. It was probably when he learned too many people are still voting in person. Too hard to cheat that way. Better delay it so the state can soften y'all up for vote-by-mail fraud like OR and CA have.
Ha see Inga wants to get the cheat on NOW!
Makes sense as a political move. It is currently a near coin flip as to those who would agree or disagree. Those that disagree probably wouldn't vote him anyway. In the meantime, I'm sure Evers supporters prefer mail in voting, and this crisis presents an opportunity to discuss the great merits, while ignoring the finer details like how easy it is to manipulate results due to the complexity in monitoring.
Again, while we asked to take this disease seriously; there seems to be a large number of people using the disease as cover to advance their long term agendas and make them permanent.
lets see if Judge Pepper is worth his salt.
"lets see if Judge Pepper is worth his salt."
Judge Pamela Pepper
Applying for an absentee ballot last week made it obvious to me how trivial it is to commit large scale fraud with mail-in ballots.
Apparently the recommended response to governmental over reach is "Roll over, play dead".
"Applying for an absentee ballot last week made it obvious to me how trivial it is to commit large scale fraud with mail-in ballots."
Wait til they say that every eligible voter should have a ballot hand delivered regardless of an application or request. Turnout will be at historic record highs.
1. Eliminate voter ID.
2. Allow vote by mail sign-ups when the state issue drivers licenses.
3. Enact same-day registration to allow college students access to ballots in their "new" state.
4. Enact early voting so we can get a early start counting.
5. Enable late voting up to three days after elections to harvest ballots from no-show voters.
Congratulations now you are California! One short-cut is the Oregon plan, which stops at step 2 but makes that a requirement, ALL votes are by mail. That way, it's easier to count the ones that arrive on time and miss the ones lost in transit from red districts. That's known as the Inga Plan for Wisconsin, and avoids all that messy ballot harvesting. Just have a ready supply of "mail-in ballots" that can be accessed as needed, much like dead voters in Cook County, IL.
BoJo’s in ICU.
Amazing how you have to copy cat something, before people will praise the original
What's a "BoJo"?
"Why do state governments run primary elections in the first place? Shouldn't the parties do that themselves?"
It was one of the main planks of the Progressive movement of 100 years ago, the argument being that caucuses are likely to produce corrupt bargains in the nomination of candidates. Of course, if a party does hold its caucus, it doesn't have a candidate, but if a government doesn't hold its election....
Democracy Dies with Last-Minute Decrees!
[does he have the power?]
SHHHHH!
People around here shopping all day long at WalMarts and Costcos. Standing in line, six feet apart. Markers on ground outside so people can keep the distance.
Too difficult to transition that process to voting, I guess.
D.D. Driver said...
If the rule of law no longer matters because people are "really, really, scared" we are fucked
not to pick nits... but:
If the rule of law no longer matters because people are "really, really, scared"; we SHOULD be Scared
fify! Alliteration is Always Allowed
"Howard said...
You people will just have to work harder to disenfranchise Milwaukee minority voters."
You people? Fuck you, racist.
You people will just have to work harder to disenfranchise Milwaukee minority voters."
I thought White Republicans were the minority in Milwaukee.
What's a "BoJo"?
Boris Johnson, Prime Minister of the UK.
Of course, if a party does hold its caucus, it doesn't have a candidate,
Ya lost me there
What's a "BoJo"?
BoJo
Right after 9/11, leftist lunatics were saying the Patriot Act would lead to government overreach and the government spying on its own citizens. I thought "How can they say that? These are powers we need to be safe"
20 years later, sure enough, the FISA warrants are a disaster and are being misused, among other ways, to spy on opponent's presidential campaigns. The leftist lunatics were right.
So yes, I think fear being so overwhelming that we can just cancel elections is something we need to be vigilant about.
And I never ever ever want to send another US Soldier off to die so someone in another country can vote for their leaders.
"Ya lost me there"
Should have been "doesn't have a candidate." Sorry.
We vote by mail in CO - and it's a mess. See - the dems don't want to use photo ID as identification. So we here in CO use... A... signature on the envelope.
Ripe for fraud. Ripe for vote harvesting. It's a mess.
I'm not opposed to vote by mail in general. I am opposed to the left designing the system. They design it so that fraud is only an invitation away.
Thanks for making my day, Skippy. I love it when you people volunteer identity as a precious unique snowflake.
Gahrie: touche
Liberal/left Speak:
"Disenfranchisement" = obeying the election laws.
"Suppressing the black vote" = Treating blacks like everyone else
How can anybody think it's a good idea for One Single Individual to have the power to postpone an election?
Mike (MJB Wolf):
"1. Eliminate voter ID.
2. Allow vote by mail sign-ups when the state issue drivers licenses.
3. Enact same-day registration to allow college students access to ballots in their "new" state.
4. Enact early voting so we can get a early start counting.
5. Enable late voting up to three days after elections to harvest ballots from no-show voters."
You forgot the "best" part:
6. Completely open the borders.
I'm not a Dem but the WI gov is right to postpone this election by fiat. Poll workers won't show up. Voters won't show up. He chose the best of of bad alternatives. Rs don't look good here, I'm sorry to say.
So we here in CO use... A... signature on the envelope."
I used to verify signatures and it was amazing how distinctive they are. Hilariously so. And you scan them in to the DB do they can't vote again.
But if you had someone corrupt doing it...well you'd have to send them the "right" trays of ballots. But it's doable.
Having an election where not as many people as usual show up is not as bad as not having an election at all, or empowering individual elected officials who have an interest in the outcome, and who are not acting pursuant to any constitutional or statutory authority, to postpone elections. (BTW, Wisconsin has fewer than 2,300 total confirmed cases of covid. Not an emergency warranting this kind of power-grab.)
Just FYI, we've found the cure for Covid-19;
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/los-angeles-doctor-says-very-ill-patients-basically-symptom-free-after-taking-trump-touted-drug
See the link to Dr. Cardillo's video, at the link on "told". HCQ with zinc. All patients he has treated were "basically symptom-free within twelve hours". The zinc is crucial, otherwise it doesn't work, which is why some doctors have seen no effect from HCQ. Of course, the fucking medicos are going to harumph about "anecdotal evidence" and "controlled studies" while tens of thousands more people die, but that's just how they like to do. The pandemic is over.
Where do we go to get our country back?
Gee I wish more people would do some election work so they can learn the system.
That way they can posit more plausible voter fraud theories, instead of just blowing smoke out their ass.
Mask up and get to work.
Welcome back Farmer.
It hasn’t gotten any better.
I didn't know you could grow bananas in Wisconsin.
On his own, without a shred of authority the governor cancels an election.
So easily we're slipping into the tyranny model.
"But if you had someone corrupt doing it...well you'd have to send them the "right" trays of ballots. But it's doable."
Here in Oregon, all elections are 100% by mail. They use signatures to validate the ballots. The sample signature to which they compare is on your voter registration sheet, along with your party affiliation, in large letters. The signature is validated by a County employee, who is, of course, a member of the AFSCME and the Democrat Party. It's a very effective system. Only one Republican has won a statewide office since it was put in place.
I registered as a Democrat, so my votes would get counted. I used to have to put a stamp on my ballot and mail it in, but now I just wait for the Democrats to come around and harvest my vote.
They know I'm a registered Democrat, and they know I haven't voted, so they send some soccer Mom with a clipboard to knock on my door and get me to vote. Pretty funny, really. Ha ha.
Mask up and get to work.
Prudent and bold, practice good hygiene, and consider context when socializing. The proximate cause of excess deaths were spreaders of social contagion that engendered phobic responses, herding people and forcing mismanagement of resources. That, and certain features of globalism, immigration reform, and progressive religions.
That said, on a forward-looking basis there will be social justice. Planned Parenhood has promised to reproductive rites and keep Mengele clinics stocked throughout the pandemic. Sever hundred thousand excess deaths in America alone are guaranteed to sustain a peculiar variant of social progress.
I guess you could say I'm a kind of electoral virus. I slip past their immune system, take over their vote-harvesting mechanisms, and use them to get my Republican vote counted! Of course, this doesn't actually have much effect as long as they have Portland. 700,000 blithering idiots are going to get the Socialism they want, no matter how I vote.
Those afraid to vote in person, or with immuno-compromised systems, as always have the options to vote absentee.
Is there any exception to that rule? That said, it denies same day, or impulse registration, which is a real "burden"... burden, really. A straw clown apology at best.
haven't checked that one, but I read schamas citizens, which is makes the French part of winik's the great upheaval, which describes what I would have merely called totalitarian, but
examining the profiles of the leaders of the terror, corday, marat Robespierre, they were very
much social justice warriors,
I guess you could say I'm a kind of electoral virus.
A democratic contagion. Fortunately, we have constitutionally -- if we can keep it -- established firewalls to contain its spread.
HCQ with zinc
It creates an inhospitable environment for the virus through a blood pH change (i.e. denies sanctuary similar to passive immunity), and functionally inhibits its progress to invade cells and therefore limits its replication strategy. It seems to be effective for controlling the progress of the disease, especially in its first trimester (i.e. days).
The one Republican who managed to slip past the Democrat machine was running for Secretary of State, against Brad Avakian. Avakian was the Labor Commissioner who talked those two lesbians into going after the Christian bakers for refusing to bake them a wedding cake, determined they were guilty, and then fined them $135,000. He figured to get himself some name recognition, and it worked better than he had intended. Apparently, there are some forms of corruption so disgusting even a Democrat can't overlook them. After they threw out the Republicans' votes and counted the Democrats' votes, the Republican still managed to beat Brad Avakian. Every other Democrat won in a landslide.
I don't care. I'm going to go vote tomorrow anyway. I'd like to see Evers try and stop me!
Inga said...
For the Republicans that want to gather indoors in confined spaces can still do so, have a Covid party, now that you can’t go vote in person.
That’s sarcasm, BTW."
Or you could, you know, implement the same sort of safeguards and distancing they are using at Costco, Walmart and other stores. In person voting would take longer but it's not like most people have busy schedules these days.
Don't pretend that the only alternative to cancelling the election is packing rooms like sardines.
Jupiter - yeah vote by mail works great!
Dictator
379 Wisconsinites died from the flu during the 13 week flu season of 2017-2018. Currently COVID-19 has claimed 77.
Wild Chicken - All sorts of weird and questionable stuff reported out of Boulder after they first instituted it all. I went to some of the local meetings held by the local GOP.=]
We have had all elections by mail here in Washington for years. There has never, ever been any corruption, ever. But then we are the state where the democrats have managed to find ballot boxes in trunks of cars and floating in Puget Sound in just enough quatity to push the election to the democrats.
But there has never been any corruption here, ever. And the fact that we are a sanctuary state and give illegals drivers licenses and have them fill in a voter registration card at the same time without showing any proof of citizenship (becaues it is illegal here) has no impact on our elections at all.
I am sure there is something more boring that Wisconsin politics, I am just not sure what it is.
“379 Wisconsinites died from the flu during the 13 week flu season of 2017-2018. Currently COVID-19 has claimed 77.”
Wisconsin wasn’t doing social distancing then during 2017-2018. That’s sort of a duh. Plus we aren’t in the 13th week if Covid yet. The first case of Covid in Wisconsin was February. Without any mitigation this Covid season would FAR outweigh the Seasonal flu deaths. By April 22 with NO mitigation techniques like social distancing Wisconsin could see 61,000 deaths. With 3 months of poor compliance mitigation, we’d have seen 22,000 by May 19. With three months of strict mitigation we could see 5,000 deaths.
I don’t know what it takes to convince some of you that this is NOT the seasonal flu. It is FAR worse. Do you people live under rocks?
Keep stying home in Wisconsin
Inga
Here is the game. Scientists predict that with no mitigation X will die. We do mitigation. Scientists says say now only a fraction of X will die. “So you were lying” say the covidiots.
You see this exact thing several times a day here.
Ken B: "Welcome back Farmer.
It hasn’t gotten any better."
That's for sure.
Now at Althouseblog if you refuse to accept massive tariff imbalances between trading partners you are now a Bernie socialist.
So, that's kind of a new thing here.
“I am sure there is something more boring that Wisconsin politics, I am just not sure what it is.”
You must visit Canada sometime.
Evers: Are you kidding? Stick my neck out to cancel the election? That's dumb!
Republican Legislature: That's 'cause you know people will be angry!
Evers: You're full of it!
Legislature: Oh yeah?
Evers: Yeah!
Legislature: Well we double DOG dare you!
Narrator (Scott Walker as an adult): NOW it was serious. A double-dog-dare. What else was there but a "triple dare you"? And then, the coup de grace of all dares, the sinister triple-dog-dare.
Legislature: We TRIPLE-dog-dare you!
Narrator (Scott Walker as an adult): The Legislature created a slight breach of etiquette by skipping the triple dare and going right for the throat!
The signature is validated by a County employee,"
If it's like montana, ALL the election workers are county employees. That's how it works. We're not unpaid volunteers. Everyone's getting min wage or more per pay grade. They ask party affiliation and knew I was an R and they like that because they want a balance. I knew other R's there. This is Missoula, our states Madison equiv.
Seriously, I'd like to see some better-informed fraud theories. Like you need a theory of the case in court.
You all are pikers.
I am sure there is something more boring that Wisconsin politics, I am just not sure what it is.
Hearing about someone else's golf game is right up there.
I note the Democrats here are not bothering to deny that mail in balloting is tailor made for Democrats to steal elections, and indeed that is practically the entire point of mail in balloting.
I suggest that Trump postpones the Presidential Election, but holds some Congressional elections.
Why not, right? Maybe... to be safe, mind you, and to limit exposure to the virus, he should only have the House and Senate elections of Democrat held seats. That's a good compromise between holding a nationwide election, and postponing the election entirely.
Announce this change by, say, October 1 so the states can gear up for mail in voting, assigning people immune to Covid-19 as poll workers, that kind of thing.
How could Inga and Howard and Ken B and the rest possibly complain? We still have some elections, we aren't overwhelming the poll workers, and we also delay some elections.
Here is the game. Scientists predict that with no mitigation X will happen by Y time. We do no mitigation but the predicted event doesn't happen. Scientists say now it is still going to happen, only at Y plus another arbitrary increment. 25,000 years later something remotely like that happens.
“We told you so,” say the scientists.
61,000 deaths is simply fear mongering. For the millionth time: epidemiology is not arithmetic. These crazy extrapolations from small numbers are not happening anywhere, with or without shut-downs. You could have made the same unfounded claims about the flue based on it's numbers, and justified a shut down then too, but nobody did.
"Every patient I've prescribed it to has been very, very ill and within 8 to 12 hours, they were basically symptom-free," Dr. Anthony Cardillo told Eyewitness News.
Eight hours? Doesn't seem physically possible considering what this virus does to the lungs of those who become "very, very ill."
All I presented was the numbers. That seems to really irk some people, unless of course they were dramatic and terrible numbers. Hell, I could have said 22 million will die in Madison alone if you have the elections, and I bet you wouldn't argue.
Tinkering by Evers left to chance.
Today's winner. Eamus catuli.
@bagoh20,
"379 Wisconsinites died from the flu during the 13 week flu season of 2017-2018. Currently COVID-19 has claimed 77."
Well played. Also, note that Wisconsin has nearly 6 Million people.
As for canceling the vote in Wisc, I'd first defer to folks in Wisc for their view. The primary vote is irrelevant - that's not necessary. But if there are important local races or judge races, that'd be important. And, Yes, the Dems will use opportunity to cheat, but that's nothing knew.
Badgers speak up and tell us what the deal is!
“These crazy extrapolations from small numbers are not happening anywhere, with or without shut-downs.”
Why should anyone believe that Bagoh knows better than the scientists that are doing the extrapolations? What makes Bagoh an expert to be believed over those who know what they are talking about, unlike him?
Overturned. Voting in Wisconsin will go on as scheduled.
Wonder if Kelly abstained, given he is on the ballot.
I'm reminded of the Twilight Zone episode "On Thursday We Leave for Home", about refugees on another planet who fled Earth due to constant wars. It's set in the far distant future of 1991.
The people on this desert planet are guided by the strong, capable, and caring Capt. Benteen. He's like a father, shepherd, or maybe a Moses, to them, exactly what they need in their parlous circumstances on a hostile world.
Decades after their extraterrestrial exodus, they are met by a rescue ship. The wars on Earth are over, and it's safe to return. Far from being happy about this, Benteen is worried about his people, and afraid to let them go their own way, as they will do on Earth. He warns them of the dangers of Earth, and how cold Wisconsin can be, but they decide that they want to live their own lives, free from his tutelage.
How will the Derp State, federal or otherwise, react to the end of ChiCom Fever, if it ever comes? I won't spoil the ending for you.
FREEDOM Is The Cure!
https://www.jbs.org/covid19/
@MadisonMan: There must precedent for going through with national elections without all of the states: 1864. But this would kill Wisconsin as a swing state.
The vote was 4-2, so Kelly must have recused. Voting today, voting tomorrow, voting forever!
Voting is generally a good thing. I guess ya gotta stay 6 feet apart and wear gloves and a mask - to protect the franchise!
I'm not an expert, but I know enough to determine which of two numbers is bigger. Do you need an expert for that?
Right from the start some people tried to shut down differing opinions by first saying that any comparison with the flu was unacceptable and must be immediately discounted and ignored, as if just saying "This is not the flu" a hundred times is an adequate argument. Then people attempted to shut others up by shaming and bullying, and the unfailing appeal to authority, like the experts never get it wrong. That shouldn't be needed if you have good stuff to argue with, and you are trying to get to the truth in good faith.
"How will the Derp State, federal or otherwise, react to the end of ChiCom Fever, if it ever comes? I won't spoil the ending for you."
They will give up their newly established power and control slowly and reluctantly.
If you would go to the store for groceries, why wouldn't you go to the polls to vote? Wear a mask, sanitized, and git-R-done.
I guess it's OK to postpone an election every time there is a flu epidemic, because PEOPLE WILL DIE if you make them go to the polls where they might catch flu.
"Doesn't seem physically possible considering what this virus does to the lungs of those who become "very, very ill."
Find a few narcan videos. OD body shutting down, one or two hit of narcan and you have a living breathing junkie ready to fight the EMTs.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=narcan+videos&docid=608048956497725413&mid=2CCB75BD80B3A49228662CCB75BD80B3A4922866&view=detail&FORM=VIRE
In the Roman Republic -- in the "brave days of old" when the Republic was functioning quite well -- Roman law required that all foreigners and resident aliens absent themselves from the city in the week before an important election. The Romans strictly enforced this law. They did not, however, resort to cruel measures and coercion for its enforcement. The resident aliens understood the requirement and made plans in advance to obtain food and lodging outside of the city limits, for the duration of the election and the counting of the ballots.
In the end, finally, the Romans could not keep their republic. The reasons why are complex. Mainly, IMO, the fall of the republic -- which was a gradual not a sudden process -- was due to the cascading deleterious effects of the Punic Wars. Pity.
I don’t know what it takes to convince some of you that this is NOT the seasonal flu. It is FAR worse. Do you people live under rocks?
Right now, there are 362,108 known cases in the US, with 10,677 deaths. I know for certain there are 10X more cases than what testing is showing. Lack of testing right? The 10X factor is provided by epidemiologist Joe Scarborough, so there is no debate on the numbers.
3,621,080 infected, divided by 10,677 deaths = 0.29% CFR
The 2017-2018 flu season took the lives of 80,000 Americans.
The latest revised Models predict 86,000 deaths for COVID 19, down from 224,000 from last weeks models.
Fascinating comment thread.
For those referring to the French Revolution, I've long wondered if or when that might happen here. Strange thing is, I could see the Deplorables revolting, and also the Bernie Bros/Antifa revolting. To a certain degree they have similar or overlapping enemies, but I doubt they would ally. It might end up more like the Spanish Civil War, where there were smaller civil wars going on simultaneously (Communists versus anarchists versus establishment liberals).
MAGA people aren't exactly in charge of the government either. Would it be the Deep State versus everyone? Who would be running the guillotines, and who would be the victims?
On a cultural note, for those who haven't seen or heard it before, I recommend watching the final scene of Poulenc's opera, Dialogues des Carmelites, in which the nuns are executed one by one while singing the Salve Regina. Incredibly moving. Some consider it the most tragic ending of any opera. Sorry, forgot the spoiler alert.
@bagoh20,
Slightly off topic, but do you need a chuckle?
Three weeks ago our pretty-boy Governor Gavin Newsom projected that 56% of California’s population — or 25.5 million people would be infected with the Coronavirus over an 8-week period.
As of Monday morning, California has 15,247 confirmed COVID-19 cases and 350 deaths — OUT OF 39 MILLION PEOPLE.
The true irony is that Newsome may be right - random sampling on the general population might find many more people with antibodies to the virus who are totally healthy, because they've already recovered from the virus.
Lotta bad numbers out there, scaring folks.
“The latest revised Models predict 86,000 deaths for COVID 19, down from 224,000 from last weeks models.”
WITH MITIGATION. Without mitigation the numbers would be far higher.
The only way to have a truly fair election in Wisconsin is to have all voters vote by absentee ballot, and to have those absentee ballots be filled out and submitted by the office of the Secretary of State. The secretary of state surely knows what is best for Wisconsin voters better than they know themselves. After all, many of those voters are farmers.
Yes, the vote will go on. And every Republican win will be challenged in the courts - after April 7th.
Democrats will claim: It was an "Unfair election" that "suppressed minority votes". What the Federal Appeals court will end up ruling is anyone's guess.
Inga 5:48
Just like I told you.
"Find a few narcan videos. OD body shutting down, one or two hit of narcan and you have a living breathing junkie ready to fight the EMTs."
This has no relationship to the problem at hand.
I will be very disappointed in the WI Supreme Court if they allow an out of control Executive to rearrange elections according to his personal desires.
That's a rather dictatorial move on his part, and no person of good faith would let him get away with it
I wonder if many poll workers will show up. Guess the counties can draft their FTEs.
@Inga sez:
"The latest revised Models predict 86,000 deaths for COVID 19, down from 224,000 from last weeks models.”
Great. It's also down from the 2.2 Million death projection a few weeks ago.
Progress!
This is actually a serious question: What if some Republican dominated town or precinct or jurisdiction actually opens polls for voting on th originally scheduled day? Is it possible that the results would be later deemed "complete" and "official", with (for example) Tulsi Gabbard winning the Democratic primary?
people said...
2017-2018 flu season took the lives of 80,000 Americans.
latest revised Models predict 86,000 deaths for COVID 19, down from 224,000 from last weeks models
WITH MITIGATION. Without mitigation the numbers would be far higher.
Here's a FUN thought; what will THIS year's flu numbers be?
between the susceptible dying of Covid-19 instead, and/or NOT dying at all 'cause of MITIGATION...
Will this years Flu + Covif-19 numbers be
a) Higher
or
b) Lower
than a 'regular' flu year?
of course, we should Probably add in the (tens of thousands?) of suicides caused by the lockdowns?
How ARE alcoholics dealing with the lockdown? virtual meetings?
Are the clinically depressed flourishing under the lockdown? Gives 'em plenty of time to think!
“@Inga sez:
"The latest revised Models predict 86,000 deaths for COVID 19, down from 224,000 from last weeks models.”
Great. It's also down from the 2.2 Million death projection a few weeks ago.
Progress!”
It’s progress WITH MITIGATION. Also that isn’t my quote. That’s Iowan2’s comment @ 5:43PM.
I'm aware that my last comment was overtaken by events. Anyway it will be fun to watch this.
Keep hope alive!
Has anyone ever heard from any of our leftists demanding quarantine now, quarantine tomorrow, and quarantine forever exactly when we should start allowing people out?
at my local paper, the leftists demanding total shutdown of the state, including all rural areas even those without any cases of Covid-19 at all--with such leftists being the most prominent democrats in the state politics--not a single one of them say when we can go back to normal.
So I ask the leftists in this thread: what criteria should we aim for to start allowing people to leave their homes, go back to work, etc?
Or, like my local leftists, state that only when "it is safe" we can go back, with safe apparently meaning "eradication of Covid-19?" Is that when we can deny Evers and other power hungry people that power?
Vance
So I ask the leftists in this thread: what criteria should we aim for to start allowing people to leave their homes, go back to work, etc?
Well, i think they'd all agree, that President Trump and VP Pense resigning, would be the first criteria
Ken B said...
Inga
Here is the game. Scientists predict that with no mitigation X will die. We do mitigation. Scientists says say now only a fraction of X will die. “So you were lying” say the covidiots.
You see this exact thing several times a day here.
Inga wins the award for dumbest person on the thread.
Ken wins for being the most dishonest.
Nobody ever argued for no mitigation. We argued for intelligent mitigation.
But you are both just stupid and dishonest people. There is a reason nobody respects either of you.
From the start it was pointed out that this was spreading in January when Inga was cheering for impeachment and democrats were trying to pull a coup. Hundreds of thousands of people were traveling here from infected regions in China who was killing doctors in December for reporting on this.
From the start I pointed out the virus hit areas with very specific temperature and weather conditions. Shutting down New York and much of the NE and any other parts of the country that fell in that category made some sense.
Coronavirus will not rise above flu levels anywhere else. And when sampling and antibody tests become a possibility it will show millions were infected.
You can whine and cry all you want. You were both spectacularly wrong and you were sanctimonious assholes about it.
“The latest revised Models predict 86,000 deaths for COVID 19, down from 224,000 from last weeks models.”
WITH MITIGATION. Without mitigation the numbers would be far higher.
The original was 2.2 million. When it was revised down to 224k, the big reduction (1/10) was explained away for exactly that reason. Now the reduction from 224k to 86K, mitigation is the reason, again.
Inga - I'm not opposed to mitigation. I'm opposed to excessive mitigation that hurts blue collar workers by shutting down their jobs.
Gotta look at both risks - the risk of the virus and the risk of shutting down the economy. Two separate risks to confront. Very simple.
Enough! Back to Wisc - that's right Justice Kelly was up for a vote. So, I reckon he will win, pissing off Evers and the Dims.
Count every vote!!!!!!!!!
Bay Area Guy said...
@Inga sez:
"The latest revised Models predict 86,000 deaths for COVID 19, down from 224,000 from last weeks models.”
Great. It's also down from the 2.2 Million death projection a few weeks ago.
Progress!
In a couple days 50,000...
Then 25,000...
Watch for a lot of backlogging and testing of people who died of other things. If they find antibodies in a cadaver they will be shuffled cleverly into the totals in big blue cities. Kinda like vote harvesting.
Millions of people had this and were asymptomatic. It was a bad flu year with an election in November and an incumbent to attack.
Got my absentee ballot. Who should I vote for in the democrat primary?
More importantly, who should I vote for in the school board seats?
Vance: "So I ask the leftists in this thread: what criteria should we aim for to start allowing people to leave their homes, go back to work, etc?"
There is only one answer...and it's obvious.
As soon as Trump is defeated.
According to CDC studies of the last recession losing your job increases suicide risk by 2X to 3X. So for the 10,000,000 who have already been put out of work the CDC numbers suggest over 200,000 additional suicides. There ain't no such thing as free lunch...
So far, the only country I know of that has conducted random testing of their population is Iceland. The preliminary results show that nearly 50% were asymptomatic of those people who have had the WuhFlu. I would think that their results are typical of other countries. So, that would mean that a rather large number of Americans have already had the WuhFlu, had no symptoms at all, are OK to be out and about.
So maybe we should start testing randolmy for antobodies to get a better picture of what is actually going on, and stop with the 'hair on fire all the experts and their projections say we should shelter in place forever' nonsense.
It is time for some rational behavior, smart testing, and smart policy on the part of government. I won't be holding my breath.
But you are both just stupid and dishonest people. There is a reason nobody respects either of you.
I was starting to respect Inga, but when she starts reading the DNC media, her critical thinking skills become overtaxed.
I think a lot of people willingly buy into the media spin because that is where the cool kids play.
6:09 "The latest revised Models predict 86,000 deaths for COVID 19, down from 224,000 from last weeks models.”
Yes A PART of my quote. The money part of the post cited the 2017-2018 flu mortality at 80,000 souls. But your rant that this is NOT the seasonal flu, rings hollow when the mortalities are about the same.
@Jalani & @Arashi,
Damn! You both are upping the intelligent quotient of the blog with insightful comments!
Well done - and totally correct on both counts.
See Boothe article on random sampling..
1) Germany is talking about a re-opening (partial, probably still no large festivals etc) on April 19th.
2) There are about 3.6 MILLION deaths in the USA during an average year, or about 10k/day.
3) 80K deaths is an increase of 2% over the "normal" deaths. If that's even the right number (how many died from "pneumonia" prior to the Fluhan being identified?)
4) There nearly all in the olds, or people who have 5-15% chance of dying in the next 12 months anyway
5) THIS IS WHAT WE'RE CAUSING A DEPRESSION FOR
6) California models now for about 2k deaths. We have on average 300-400 deaths/month from traffic accidents. I'd say at least half of them aren't happening. So we're going to have 1,000-1500 "excess deaths" in return for destroying the economy.
FFS. Get a goddamn grip people.
O'Mike,
"I laughed at the people who said Trump would cancel the November election because I considered such an action beyond the pale."
Any time you're perplexed about the statements or behavior of lefties, think "Projection". 99% of the time, that will cure your perplexity.
Ralph L.,
"Why do state governments run primary elections in the first place? Shouldn't the parties do that themselves?"
Yes, yes, a thousand times yes!
BleachBit,
"I'm not opposed to vote by mail in general."
You darned well should be! How else can you guarantee ballot privacy?
Arashi,
I am somewhat proud that Pierce County was the last holdout against all-mail voting, and previously kept their mechanical voting machines long past everyone else and then transitioned to the only reasonably-recountable computer system (optical readers)... this all while being dominated by Democrats. You wouldn't believe it if you hadn't seen it in person.
A statement from Biden on elections and the virus:
We cannot let this we've never allowed any crisis from the civil war straight through to the pandemmic of sevent- all the way arou- sixteen we have never never let our democracy seeks second fiddle way th- we can both have a democracy and elections and at the same time tireck [sic] the public health
over 50 listenings to get the transcription right. He doesn't do the normal dysfluencies (ah um). He's more akin to Wernicke's Aphasia. Damage to the language network.
Democratics cannot accomplish their policy goals without the judicial branch deciding small-d democratic issues by judicial fiat.
The Executive Branch had overstepped and was rightly rebuked.
Good.
Wernike's aphasia
Oh, sure, any old think you want. If I could I would. Oh I'm taking the word the wrong way to say, all of the barbers around here whenever they stop you it's going around and around, if you know what I mean, that is tying and tying for repucer, repuceration, well, we were trying the best that we could while another time it was with the beds over there the same thing...
(Example from Zwicky "Mistakes")
Governor Tony Evers
@GovEvers
·
Apr 1
We have three branches of government to ensure a system of checks and balances, and questions about our elections typically rely on all three playing a role. If I could have changed the election on my own I would have but I can’t without violating state law.
WITH MITIGATION. Without mitigation the numbers would be far higher.
That's not actually true. If you actually read the IMHE (Univ. of Washington) study, they have assumed all along that states had already implemented at least 3 of 4 mitigation measures (close schools, stay-at-home orders, close non-essential businesses, and restrict travel) or would implement them within 7 days. So the 224,00 deaths prediction assumed that there would be mitigation. The new 86,000 deaths prediction assumes the same mitigation. the only thing that has changed is that the actual case numbers were coming nowhere close to their predictions so they had to revise their original predictions downward.
टिप्पणी पोस्ट करा