"It’s a really strange thing. It all happened so quickly.... It definitely was stressful.... It was literally 24/7 of reading the news, analyzing the news, talking to people, and strategic sessions in the middle of the night.... Correct me if I’m wrong, but the vast majority of leaks that happened were anti-Trump.... We will come out—and we have come out—stronger from this whole situation."
Said Igor Novikov, an adviser to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, quoted at The Daily Beast.
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Romney says Ukraine is "at war with Russian invaders" - someone should have asked him about that. Ukraine is very corrupt, and a lot of DC Politicians are getting "Kickbacks" in one form or another from all the $$ we're giving them.
"We are glad it's done."
Oh for Pete's sake! You guys hacked the IA primary just this Monday! Will there ever be a day you won't interfere in our electoral processes? I think not!
Interesting you would highlight Ukrainian news. Last week the big news there was that Shokin had formally filed a complaint against Joe Biden with the Ukraine National Bureau of Investigation (link below, ready to cut and paste-&-go) for publicly calling him corrupt and forcing his firing. Might have even been the same day that Slow Joe told Savanna Guthrie his usual "NO ONE has EVER said I did anything wrong!" schtick. It was always bullshit, but I notice how American media is careful to NOT report actual news from Ukraine, like the story below, and the earlier story that Burisma was actually under investigation four months prior to The Phone Call on July 25, which if reported correctly would put the lie to the claims Schiff made, since it would be difficult to pressure someone to do what they have already begun.
https://www.les-crises.fr/breaking-news-prosecutor-shokin-files-a-complaint-against-joe-biden-for-interference-in-ukraine-s-legal-proceedings/
it's intriguing what Jeffrey carr initially turned up the malware was Ukrainian, not Russian derivation, and was licensed to many parties, among them the fsb, but hacker syndicates like
'humpty dumpty'
The corruption is all on team-Obama.
Biden is a crook. Just like Hillary.
but it's illegal to ask in corrupt America - where assholes wearing white text while the leader of the free world is speaking.
Mitt Romney doesn't believe them.
Lucid-Ideas said...
"We are glad it's done."
Oh for Pete's sake! You guys hacked the IA primary just this Monday!</i
The Ukrainians hacked the Iowa primary?
Romney has John McCain disease. He will exclude Trump from his funeral, but the topic will be all-Trump.
Ukraine, Adam Schiff will let you know if we need any input from you.
apelbaum did the initial data mapping, now they post it without crediting him,
https://libertyunyielding.com/2019/09/30/july-2019-ukraine-launched-probe-of-military-sale-by-fundraiser-for-adam-schiff/
It is the recipient countries' fault that Washington "5-percenters" skim off the aid packages before they leave town?
Maybe they shouldn’t have tried so hard to help Hillary. Another circled back torpedo where they got rid of Manafort and ended up with Kelly Anne Conway. That’s why election interference was illegal under Ukrainian law, BTW. And why Yovanovich demanded that the guilty politicians, who had sold out Ukraine to the Hillary campaign, not be prosecuted.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the vast majority of leaks that happened were anti-Trump
On the one hand, the people doing the leaking have an agenda. Stuff that helps Trump doesn't fit their agenda so they don't bother leaking that part.
On the other hand, if you do 1 thing wrong, that doesn't make up for the fact that you did all this other stuff right. You must still face the consequences.
Where it matters is in things not clearly right or wrong, but open to interpretation. The people feeding you the information are trying to influence your interpretation in their favor, so the default of someone doing their best to come to the mot sensible conclusion is to be extra skeptical of facts that support their position.
May the Ukrainians one day forgive the Democrats for what they put them through these last 6 months.
While the economy tends to win elections, Presidential legacies are usually built on foreign relations. I think all of this was an effort to protect Obama's legacy while preventing Trump from ever having one. The thing about legacies, is you really don't know if they are any good until time has passed.
I think this will be the legacy for Democrats, "It was always, 'Trump is connected with Russia, so Trump hates Ukraine'". Democrats created that concept, and it hurt not just Trump and Republicans, but Ukraine too. More people will realize this and understand just how ugly this Russian collusion lie is and how many it really hurt.
May the Ukrainians one day forgive the Democrats for what they put them through these last 6 months.
Yes. A bit like South Vietnam. Not as catastrophic but they may remember,.
well the holomodor puts it in sharp relief
https://babalublog.com/2020/02/05/ap-laments-intolerance-of-cuban-exile-community-ignores-intolerance-of-socialist-castro-dictatorship/
Somewhat OT, but if Trump only released the aid to Ukraine because he'd been caught (as the dems have accused), why didn't the whistleblower wait just another couple weeks so that the statutory requirement would run out? My understanding is that they'd have had an actual crime at that point. Are they all this stupid?
they count on people not noticing, this was in the midst of 'sharpiegate', of course Bolton's own rfe commentary shows there was a summit scheduled for warsaw, postponed by the storm,
For the Dems : black hat had to be put on Russia so that they could be put white hat on Ukraine and pass foreign aid for backwash can be channeled to cronies.
Trump is guilty of trying to de-black-hat Russia Putin etc.
Trump would have made peace between Russia and Ukraine which Dems and neocons could not allow
largely so,
https://twitter.com/VickiMcKenna/status/1225438160227840002?s=20
have they figured out, that getting in the midst of a century long blood feud isn't productive,
Quit wasting our money. Let Mitt Romney and his 5 Sons and Cokehead Son protect these corrupt Jagoffs from the corrupt Russians.
"If we could choose, this thing wouldn’t have happened. It would have been building the relationship rather than trying to save it from something very political, very loud."
Hey, U, are you saying that the something very political might not have had your best interest in mind? That none of the very political people ever checked with you whether what they were doing was actually good for U? That, perhaps, the something very political was a charade played out for domestic purposes, and FU if you don't like it and feel used?
"Correct me if I’m wrong, but the vast majority of leaks that happened were anti-Trump"
No need for a correction, it was a setup. But it seems the fiasco did produce some clarity for you and others overseas: now you know, once and for all, what Dem scum you've been dealing with, and we are dealing with. Countries more powerful than you might even figure out how to use that scumminess for their own advantage--say, by funneling $1B to a witless Dem son.
if Trump only released the aid to Ukraine because he'd been caught (as the dems have accused), why didn't the whistleblower wait just another couple weeks so that the statutory requirement would run out?
They couldn't wait because Trump would have released the funds on or before the deadline. Trump was clearly untrusting of the Ukrainian and the advisors kept harping on the deadline. See Bolton's book excerpts.
Trump does this a lot. He pushes the bureaucracy and asks "why" then grudgingly follows their advise.
black hat had to be put on Russia
Russia put the hat on themselves. I understand the Russians were fed-up with the Ukrainian. Twice the Ukraine people freely and fairly voted for a pro-russia government and twice those governments were ousted from power with the backing of the west.
So Russia decided to absorb Crimes into Russia. Crimes was an autonomous region of Russian ethnics and retired military (think NC or Florida panhandle) and voted overwhelmingly to join Russia.
Putin then tried a big Gamble and lost bigly. He attempted to foster revolt in East Ukraine. He hoped to peel off enough to get a land bridge to Crimes and best case peel off the whole southern part of Ukraine to Moldovia independent region.
That didn't work at all. He had to send in troops to even keep the most Eastern and Russian areas in revolt. Then he shot down an airliner with a byk middle. Total disaster.
Crimes= Crimea. Freaking autopickle.
buk missile, thos were the tough years when little if any weapons were provided, the Russians fought a dozen conflicts to take and hold the crimea, the Crimean war was only the second to last conflict, Galicia which is northern Ukraine, were major theatres in the world wars,
Bill, Republic of Texas: "So Russia decided to absorb Crimes into Russia. Crimes was an autonomous region of Russian ethnics and retired military (think NC or Florida panhandle) and voted overwhelmingly to join Russia"
Russia not only "owned" Ukraine for about 200 years, a majority of Ukrainians are of Russian heritage and speak Russian.
This is why 2 elections in a row yielded a pro-Russian leader who was kept out of power by the West working with the non-Russian Ukrainians.
Hard to see how Ukraine does not reintegrate with Russia at some point.
Not to mention the vast majority of natural gas flowing to Europe comes thru pipelines running through Ukraine (before the expansion of NordStream in the Baltics).
Of course, the democrats "concern" over Ukraine, which never included actual weapons to Ukrainian forces fighting the russians when the war was actually blazing, is really all about the billions (1.8 in cash, another 9 or so in guarantees through the IMF) was being laundered and stolen by certain folks over there whom were all affiliated with democrats.
I believe the Latvian government itself has made a public announcement that significant portions of the obama aid was laundered through their banks in Latvia.
I'll have to look that up to confirm.
So, if you want to know what impeachment was all about, FOLLOW -- THE -- MONEY.
He attempted to foster revolt in East Ukraine.
It wasn't fostered, it was joined to mitigate progress of another social justice zone and refugee crisis that were all too common during that period. What may be said is that Russia acted for her interests first, and to aid the people at risk following the coup in Kiev, second.
Then he shot down an airliner with a byk middle.
Did they ever establish who launched that missile?
He's probably right. Applies to Trump too.
Because you have not supplied any of your own commentary with this post, Althouse, I cannot discern what you’re thinking about those Ukrainian quotes. I don’t expect that you are so credulous as to presume that the Ukrainians prefer the Trump presidency and so were unhappy about the impeachment as you were.
No; the Ukrainians are locked in a death struggle with Putin. And in that, they are highly dependent on US aid that is so clearly and so unfortunately controlled by Putin’s BFF, Donald J. “All the financing we need from Russia”
Trump.
They are terrified of offending Trump. And they are desperate to placate Trump. Like a busboy at a Trump hotel, or a caddy at a Trump golf course. Or a backbench Republican congressman from the Florida panhandle.
Absolutely every word from Ukraine needs to be read through that filter. And I am confident that you, Althouse, are intelligent enough to understand this.
The Ukrainians might start ratting out the Democrats, and a few Republicans, who have used them for money laundering and siphoning off a share of all US aid.
he still hasn't taken the hint to go to the good prosecutor's fortified 'cabin in the woods'
Blogger Michael K said...
The Ukrainians might start ratting out the Democrats, and a few Republicans, who have used them for money laundering and siphoning off a share of all US aid.
Huh.
You think the Ukrainians know anything about the pizza parlors that Hillary used for child sex trafficking? That’s where the DNC server is hidden, right?
The Ukrainians have a pretty sophisticated political sense about what is going on when lefties are making it go. They understood they were being used in a coup attempt. But what should they do? Should they back Trump? or was the coup going to succeed so that Hillary-Biden minions would be back in power? (and some had never left, see "Call me Colonel" Vindman). Meeting after meeting. In the end they backed Trump openly. But no one listened. Now what? More meetings. And what was Burisma saying to them? - and Cofer Black, former high CIA official? - who was on the Burisma board. Whatever that was the Ukrainians decided to Back Trump more. Trying to see past fake news - 24/7 against Trump. They think "yes, a lefty coup, we recognize the propaganda, but does Trump have support?" Meetings. "Have we destroyed ourselves by supporting the US president just as democracy is lost there? No, America will survive the attempt." Back Trump more. Trump victorious. A small country forced to play dodgeball with the superpowers, sighs with relief - both righteous and victorious.
You know, I thought Pizzagate was errant nonsense too but then Prince Andrew said that he couldn’t have screwed that fifteen year old because he was at a childrens’ pizza party on that date. (Google it before you call bullshit)
But seriously, that’s not logic Chuck. The thing is that there is lots of documentation regarding Ukraine’s attempts to sabotage the Trump campaign and the DNC’s hand in it. Not so much about pizzagate, you can’t compare the two. What you do here Chuck is lawyer for your side, who happen to have their hands in the cookie jar in Ukraine, and it’s not your job to admit that, or even give. credit to any arguments that demonstrate that.
Whatever. It’s obvious that Ukraine was a source of graft that largely went to Democrat, but that got spread around to the Romney organization too. He received checks from Burisma.
Ciaramella met with the Ukrainian politician who passed the Democrats the intelligence file on manafort (It’s in White House logs) that ended up leaked to the New York Times. Yovanovich admitted that she demanded that that politician not be prosecuted under Ukrainian law because his leak was “harmless.”
You are on the wrong side of it. You are lawyering for a bunch of corrupt politicians, I hope they are sharing the vigorish on those foreign aid checks with you.
Ciaramella was at the meeting where Ukraine was told that Shokin had to go. Still no prosecution of Shokin for corruption, BTW. But after Shokin was fired, the heat came off of Burisma, and they skated. You want to read about it in the New York Times if you don’t believe me?
Here’s the upshot of Biden’s meddling in Ukrainian affairs:
Mr. Lutsenko initially took a hard line against Burisma. But within 10 months after he took office, Burisma announced that Mr. Lutsenko and the courts had “fully closed” all “legal proceedings and pending criminal allegations” against Mr. Zlochevsky and his companies, and that the oligarch had been removed by a Ukrainian court from “the wanted list.” Mr. Zlochevsky returned to the country.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/01/us/politics/biden-son-ukraine.html
Who was pressuring poor little Ukraine after their oil wealth had been raped by Burisma?
Romney’s campaign chief got money from Burisma, not Romney himself.
There were actually articles written that the New York Times. shouldn’t have done the reporting on Ukraine, even though it’s well sourced and probably accurate, because it hurts Biden. I think Jon Solomon is probably under a non disclosure agreement with The Hill, but none of his stuff has ever been shown to be untrue, but they apparently shitcanned him anyway.
Wasn't the real reason for the NYT and The New Yorker to reveal the Biden Ukrainian kickback just a politics-by-the-books attempt to claim the corruption 'old news'?
exactly, it's like when the post pre bezos. pointed out Obama's ties to the subprime debacle, and then they denounced a gop ad, based on those same findings,
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