Pete Rose played Major League Baseball for 24 seasons, from 1963-1986, and had more hits, 4,256, than any other player (by a wide margin). He gambled, but only on his own team winning, and paid a decades long price. GET PETE ROSE INTO THE BASEBALL HALL OF FAME. It’s Time!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) February 8, 2020
८ फेब्रुवारी, २०२०
Trump takes a stand on the Pete Rose issue.
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Wrong.
O Hi O!
If I as a manager bet on only certain games to win then I will be motivated to make decisions about pitchers or injured players that will not be in the interest of the team. I will also be subtly motivated to lose other games because that will affect the betting odds I get. Rose betrayed the trust placed in him. His lack of virtue is just an example of the erosion of civic virtue and trustworthiness that blights us now. Rose abused his position and his power just as did Comey or Brennan, albeit on a much smaller scale. Rose is the swamp.
That's it, I'm done. Impeach!
Pete Rose knew what he was risking.
Isn't this a second term issue?? I mean.....I know Pelosi has effectively re-elected Trump, but that doesn't change the sequence of things.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again:
It’s either a ‘Hall of Fame’ or it’s a ‘Hall of Stats’.
Pick ONE.
Phidippus aka Philippians
You jest, but this is worse than anything he did with Zelensky! 😉
The baseball purists are basically the never-trumpers of sports.
Most of them have never made a hard decision in their life.
And none of them are as honorable and good as they pretend they are. They all have warts in their pasts. They look the other way when McGwire and Sosa are saving their sport. But get all huffy 5 years later.
It is just lame.
Ken B said...
His lack of virtue is just an example of the erosion of civic virtue and trustworthiness that blights us now.
This is crap.
Baseball is a sport full of cheaters. Everyone cheats.
But to make up for it they get all huffy and self-righteous afterwards.
This is the definition of virtue signalling.
I disagree.
So Achilles's argument is that McGwire cheated so Rose did not betray any trust.
Again, Rose agreed to a lifetime ban.
Agreed to it.
Next.
Baseball is a sport full of cheaters. Everyone cheats.
Rose didn't cheat. He bet on games. He broke the unbreakable rule. The one rule that's prominently posted in each and every professional baseball clubhouse.
He knew it when he did it. And then he lied about it for 30 years ... while agreeing to a lifetime ban.
It has nothing to do with baseball purists or any of the crap you're peddling.
He can rot outside of Cooperstown. The end.
And Bonds.
Well, he just lost me. Not that I was a big defender to begin with.
Only once the HOF has inducted Shoeless Joe Jackson. Then it can take another look at Pete Rose, if it has to.
Ken B said...
So Achilles's argument is that McGwire cheated so Rose did not betray any trust.
That isn't my argument and you know it.
But I like the continued insistence that everyone be as perfect as you obviously are.
No redemption. Ever. Some sins make you irredeemable and deplorable.
But that's why baseball is not really an American sport I guess...
Sally327 said...
Only once the HOF has inducted Shoeless Joe Jackson. Then it can take another look at Pete Rose, if it has to.
Isn't it interesting discussing who gets forgiveness and who doesn't?
Much more fun just to get all huffy and shit strawberry ice cream.
Think donald got it.
Most of the liberals and Never trumpers support Trump's position. They also wanted Bonds in the hall of fame, and overlooked his obvious juicing when hitting all those HRs after the age of 35.
Personally, I think Rose has suffered long enough - but if people feel different that's OK with me.
It's the Hall of Fame and Museum. Any milestones a player accomplishes can be recognized in the Museum without honoring the man in the Hall of Fame. There's good reasons for altering the character requirements to be inducted to the Hall, but as long as they're there Rose can't sniff the place.
The HOF is a museum.
It is not a cathedral which only the blessed may enter. Baseball loves to pretend it is the most honorable of all athletic competition.
This is nothing but a grudge against Rose. Rose did nothing but honor the game in his playing days.
So betting on game is like inside trading ... Only politicians are allowed to do!
Trump promoting corruption, meh, what else is new?
I agree. I also support Roger Clemons and all the other alledged juicers, like Sosa.
Well, that was the final nail in Pete's coffin.
Trump is going to lose the presidency in November if he sticks with this position. Pete Rose betrayed every serious baseball fan.
Boys: "Sure thing, hold our beer!"
Surprised at all the vehemence here. Of course Pete belongs in the Hall.
Blogger Guimo said...
Trump is going to lose the presidency in November if he sticks with this position. Pete Rose betrayed every serious baseball fan.
Something tells me if someone will no longer vote for Trump because he thinks Rose should be in the Hall, they weren't going to vote for Trump in the first place.
I bet there is someone who is admitted to the hof that has done something worse than Pete.
The supposedly cult supporters of Trump are not following his lead. If Rev. Jones said Pete belonged in the HOF, his followers would have agreed. What kind of cult leader is Trump if he can't enforce uniformity among his followers?.....I think there should be a secondary voting process on nominees that allows further voting five years after the nominee has died. I've no objection to offering posthumous honors to Pete Rose as they did to Shoeless Joe.
With asterisks.
Go ahead an put Rose in the Hall of Fame. We can impeach and remove him after Trump is out of office.
Many Hall of Famers were involved with gambling.
Ty Cobb and Tris Speaker ended their career because of a gambling scandal. Do really think that a famous rule breaker like the Babe never gambled? It’s all politically correct bullshit. You earn Hall of Fame status by your performance on the field. Not what happens off of it.
Next thing you know you will say hat Kobe shouldn’t be in the basketball Hall of Fame because he was a rapist.
How dare Trump insert himself into the exclusively private business of MLB.
Trump's wrong.
There, you happy Chuck?
And see how it is possible to disagree with him without being a complete a-hole?
Howard writes: How dare Trump insert himself into the exclusively private business of MLB.
Low comedy.
Try the roll-up dickie schtick, next time.
"Ty Cobb and Tris Speaker ended their career because of a gambling scandal"
No. They both lost their managing jobs, but continued as players with different teams. The incident also predated the rule for automatic expulsion for gambling.
MLB Rule 21(d): Any player, umpire, or club or league official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has a duty to perform shall be declared permanently ineligible.
Pete Rose doesn't dey that he bet on baseball games in connection with which he had a duty to perform. Well, at first, he did. But after Bart Giamatti determined that he did, in fact, bet on games, Rose admitted as much, but claimed that he always bet on his team to win, as if that mitigated his guilt.
So the only way for Pete Rose to enter the Hall of Fame is for MLB to rescind Rule 21(d), or grant an exemption specifically for Rose. Baseball isn’t about to do the former; to my mind, Pete Rose isn’t deserving of the latter.
"So betting on game is like inside trading ..."
Gambling on games is like insider trader. Fixing games is a fraud. The problem is that fixing games requires proof of intent, and as we see with so many of our political friends, corruption thrives in the requirement to prove intent.
As for the stars of the Steroid Era cited in some of the Comments, I have long believed that when the history of baseball is written, its greatest tragedy will have been the untimely death of Bart Giamatti. If Giamatti had lived, I’m convinced there would not have been a players strike in ’94. Giamatti loved the game too much to let it be torn apart like that. He would have found a way for both sides to come together. No players strike, no need to woo the fans back, post-strike. With no need to lure back the fans, MLB would not have turned a blind eye as it did to the steroid usage that saw Bonds, Sosa and McGwire putting up such crazy home run numbers. And Clemens pitching well after he should have been in a rest home. But, of course, it’s all conjecture on my part.
I’m also not kidding myself. In twenty years, the Veterans Committee will vote them all in.
"So the only way for Pete Rose to enter the Hall of Fame is for MLB to rescind Rule 21(d), or grant an exemption specifically for Rose."
The current commissioner has previously told Rose in writing that MLB takes no position on his eligibility for the Hall of Fame. It's the Hall of Fame that bars MLB ineligibles. There's never been any evidence that any voting body of the Hall would elect Rose if he weren't barred. Joe Jackson was eligible for 50 years before the bar was put in place, and he received almost no support.
"Trump is going to lose the presidency in November if he sticks with this position."
It may or may not lose him the presidency, but it won't lose him Ohio.
Completely disagree with Trump.
Scuffing balls, corking bats, beanballing batters, dousing horsehide with wood repellant chemicals, bartering souls with "Mr. Applegate", and telling off-color jokes to base runners to distract them — creative skullduggery is a part of the game, both in life and art, like it or not. So, please, just relax. Eat a hotdog in memory of the kind you can only get in a Major League park. Take up knitting.
One more thing — anyone who allows sport, any sport of any sort, to influence his vote in a national election needs a lengthy Thorazine vacation.
Rose can enter the HOF when Bart Giamatti hands him the plaque. Until then, keep out, even if he buys a ticket.
its greatest tragedy will have been the untimely death of Bart Giamatti
You mean the untimely fatal heart attack caused by the stress of the Pete Rose affair.
Rose's stats are there for everyone to see- you don't have to go to the Hall of Fame to see them. Major League Baseball nor the Hall of Fame are in control of who the all time leader in hits, plate appearances, at bats, and games is- it is Pete Rose, full stop, banned or not. The issue is whether or not he should inducted into the Hall of Fame, and he should not.
1926 - Ty Cobb and Tris Speaker were permitted by Ban Johnson to resign from baseball near the end of the 1926 season after former pitcher Dutch Leonard charged that Cobb, Speaker and Smoky Joe Wood had joined him just before the 1919 World Series in betting on a game they all knew was fixed.Jul 30, 2001 (ESPN.com)
Many of the early stars were not just involved in gambling but fixed games.
I do however rejoice that Cap Anson was honored because of his effect on race relations in baseball.
Isn't the decision to tie your career and income to a certain team a form of gambling on that team winning? Taking any job is gambling on that organization. Marriage is gambling that your life will be better risking so much to be with this person. We all gamble every single day. We take risks hoping to win, and we cheat.
Rose has a life time ban. Put him in after he dies..... or better, build an exhibit for him now, out it behind curtains and unveil it after he dies...
My premise is that the Hall of Fame (for any sport) means less with each passing generation. No clue why. Perhaps that is only anecdotal to my own circle of oldies, middles, and little ones. In any case I don’t think the President is right to even bother weighing in.
Maybe it is all an experiment.
Trump tweets on certain (relatively meaningless) issue or social thing, and there is a Twitter control group of 100 people who hate him, but who are on record of agreeing strongly with the position (in this case, want Rose in HoF) and they see how many of his haters are prepared to identify that they agree with T.
Then there is a group of 100 supporters, but who are against the position, and they see what happens with that group’s response.
How to cure the February blahs. If I was a betting man - say like Pete Rose - I think I know which group of 100 would be, % wise, more consistent
"1926 - Ty Cobb and Tris Speaker were permitted by Ban Johnson to resign from baseball near the end of the 1926 season"
Cobb and Speaker both played in the American League in 1927 and 1928.
James Comey belongs in the FBI hall of fame. He started the biggest investigation into foreign collusion of any president. He was interviewed more often than any FBI director. These are records you may sayers cannot deny.
Ban Johnson forced them to resign in 1926 but they were reinstated by Judge Landis who forced American League President Johnson to retire.
It was corruption pure and simple Landis wanted the stars to play even though they fixed games.
Hypocrisy and corruption are among the founding principles of the Major Leagues.
A lot of people feel the same way President Trump does, but I happen to think he's wrong. The rules are there for a reason, and whether or not the reason is valid they are the rules.
Big Mike: "A lot of people feel the same way President Trump does, but I happen to think he's wrong. The rules are there for a reason, and whether or not the reason is valid they are the rules."
There have been so many violations of anti-steroid policies and other infractions by players admitted into the Hall of Fame that this Pete Rose situation is beginning to feel like an Al Davis/Pete Rozell battle.
An argument can be made that Rose, like Jackson before him, was sentenced to a lifetime ban.
Joe has done his time and still isn't in. Rose hasn't even had the decency to die. When he's dead
and Jackson is in then maybe.
Shoeless Joe’s numbers aren’t good enough. He has under 5,700 plate appearances.
None of his 4,256 hits came because of the way he bet, and "lifetime" bans can be unmade just the way they were made. No big deal. Next.
The hall of fame is not a museum for saints. It's filled with racists, philanderers, players who used cork bats, spitters and everything at their disposal to their advantage.
I'm with Trump, Pete Rose was a Hall of Fame player, he should be in the Hall of Fame.
Leave McGwire out of this.
He used Andro when it was not prohibited.
Rose made his own bed. This "other people did stuff nd were penalized less" sounds like all of the justifications to get Jonathan Pollard out of jail.
I was never that big a fan of Pete Rose and have no dog in the fight. If I cared, I'd wonder what motivated him to do such a thing as bet on baseball...just needed the money? Gambling fever? Fuck the rules I'm Pete Rose?
As for PDT inserting himself into the topic...well, as Talleyrand said upon learning of the death of the Turkish ambassador,
I wonder what he meant by that?
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