... which I know from my minute analysis of the rejected handshake sequence that is 0:11:
Suddenly, EW's fingers burst open into full extension, as if to engulf Bernie's right hand just as it springs into a point.That is the most dramatic and most intimate part of the encounter. She wouldn't reach out to his hand when it was offered in the shaking position, but she sprang into receptive openness when he came at her with his aggressive pointer.
Right before that moment her hands were clasped together and held close to her chest, and immediately after that moment, she returned to the clasp. The extended hands can be understood as expressive of a desire to get her ideas out, but the visual is one of his aggressing and her pleading.
We talked about the sexual symbolism and the gender politics of this sequence and this particular freeze frame and who does this help? There are 2 men in the frame, and Steyer looks like the wise, lofty mediator, and he is looking toward Bernie. It does seem like 2 patriarchs are telling the woman she has transgressed.
Looking at the headlines at Drudge...
Warren Refuses to Shake His Hand...I saw a "stop Warren" effort, trumped up out of nothing, and my instinct is to become vigilant and protective as I see this happening in real time. But let me publish this post and make a separate post out of Michael Moore's attack.
MICHAEL MOORE: Stuck Knife in His Back...
#NeverWarren trends...
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Now I need to find that painting with the old geezers pointing at the transgressor. Back later.
It's the "what will women think" problem that drives all politics. Big irrational electorate segment.
Warren is clearly a dishonest hack. Nobody would believe her is she said the sky is blue.
Her campaign is finished.
Liawatha was going for the women’s vote with her recovered memory of Sanders claim a woman could not not win the Presidency BUT by doing so she has pissed off every Bernie bro still smarting from losing to a cheating corrupt Hillary! in cahoots with the DNC in 2016.
I can't wait to laugh at her when Donald Trump beats her. Then she will cry about sexism, and racism making it impossible for her to be President.
If THAT makes you want to vote for Warren, maybe you should stop voting!!!
Warren will be humiliated in Iowa. People are demanding their donations to her back.
This will break the tie as well.
The video of the Sanders campaign planning to riot and send Trump supporters to re-education camps will also provide a boost with Democrat voters.
The two billionaires will surge as well.
Michelle Obama is going to start the trial campaign soon.
There apparently is a move to request refunds from "ActBlue" PAC over Warren's war on Bernie.
Warren is clearly a dishonest hack. Nobody would believe her is she said the sky is blue.
She is sort of a skinny, more energetic Hillary.
The way she went after Bernie will not hurt him. It may even strengthen him.
If STOP Warren Campaign makes you want to vote for Warren, then you should ALREADY be on the TRUMP train, because there has been a STOP Trump campaign going on since 2015!!!
"..Steyer looks like the wise, lofty mediator, and he is looking toward Bernie. It does seem like 2 patriarchs are telling the woman she has transgressed."
I disagree. Steyer's looking at Bernie appears more like "settle down dude" than 2 patriarchs making common cause. The photo accentuates Bernie's angry persona, not Warren's supposed supplication.
I know you are analyzing this post debate body language clip, but what is sinking Warren is the actual debate moment where Warren accepts the premise of the CNN question on what her thoughts were when Sanders said a woman couldn't win the Presidency.
I hope Michele does run. I was pretty silent about her during the Obama administration, but now it is okay to attack women (like they do to Melania and every other Conservative woman.)...so bring it on....I promise you, it won't be pretty. If they think they will have an easy time like they did when her husband was President...times have changed.
It is my strongest desire that Warren be the Democrat candidate for President
Medicare For All would destroy the great health insurance possessed by those "suburban white moms" "swing voters". The are the people who've spent decades voting down school vouchers, because "our schools are good", and vouchers might hurt them. They are not going to sacrifice their kids health care.
If Warren is the Democrat nominee, the Democrats will get crushed, top to bottom. because, to protect their health care, the only "swing voters" the Democrats have a shot at will all swing GOP, in pure self protection.
The Rust Belt / WWC voters are not going to go for Warren. So even if she could ditch the stigma of M4A at no cost, she'd still lose the election. M4A just makes sure the GOP wipes big in the House & Senate, & State Legislatures, too.
But ditching M4A would not be "without cost". Because she can't just stop talking about it. The GOP has more than enough video, audio, and text from her about M4A to torch here with voters. Nothing short of "it was a really bad idea, i utterly reject it, and will never do anything like that", coming straight from Warren's mouth, repeated over and over agin, will save her with "suburban moms."
But doing that would rip the heart out of the Left. You know, the people she needs to give her money, suport her campaign, and get out and vote for her.
So, please, support Warren!
Warren is smarter than Hillary. Good for her to shiv Bernie. He’s a pussy.
How to get from Warren fading, Warren pulling a political trick to stop her slide all the way to they're trying to take Warren out so I feel like protecting her is some alley of crazy I don't need to walk down...
This is pretty trivial stuff. My recollection of the 2016 Republican debates is that there were a lot of disagreements with verbal shots taken. Is my memory bad? Or are the Democrats afraid to raise issues, disagree among thmeselves and fight for their beliefs?
I've been with the Stop Warren crowd since Andy Griffith went to color.
Last night was the first time I watched a debate in this election race.
I had never watched Klobuchar before, and I did not like her. She is the least eloquent of the six candidates. Her answers meandered, with many irrelevancies. When her time was up, she always kept talking despite the moderators calls for her to stop.
Klobblob is a bore. As is Steyer. Buttigig has had his two minutes of fame. TIme for them to go.
Last night there was no discussion of immigration.
I have the impression that there has been any discussion of immigration in any of these debates.
If Bernie wasn't an absurdly arrogant old coot, he'd get out and endorse Warren.
Sounds like Biden will be the nominee.
I saw a "stop Warren" effort, trumped up out of nothing, and my instinct is to become vigilant and protective as I see this happening in real time.
You're late. The real Stop Warren effort happened weeks ago. The big donors on Wall Street and in Tech made it clear they wouldn't donate to the Dems anywhere if Warren was going to be the candidate. The Party quickly caved and started sabotaging Warren in the press. Her numbers have been in steady decline since then. But go ahead and rush defend her from Michael Moore if it makes you feel good.
They discussed immigration at the start when all of them agreed we shouldn't have immigration laws, and reduce illegal border crossing to a parking ticket. Plus, Amnesty for everyone. This, caused some blow back, the DNC-Media doesn't ask about it, other than, "Babies in Cages, at the Border!"
Suddenly, EW's fingers burst open into full extension, as if to engulf Bernie's right hand just as it springs into a point.
There was penetration.
Biden will coast to the nomination if he can just learn to keep his ignorant mouth shut.
I have the impression that there has NOT been any discussion of immigration in any of these debates.
Remember, Lizzie is Scots Irish. She may not win, but she will stand her ground and fight and fight and fight. That ability actually makes her the most Presidential person in the Dem pack. As for her history of lying, she would say that if you are not cheating, you are not trying. Stay tuned for her next attack on whomever is in her way.
I am absolutely stunned by the headline of this post! You really should watch the debate, Althouse- there isn't a "Stop Warren" campaign going on- there is a "Stop Sanders" campaign, and CNN's debate moderators last night ran wild with it. What you are seeing the Moore and Drudge stuff is the reaction to what has happened in the previous 2 days and in the debate itself.
I wondered, while watching the debate last night, whether or not Sanders would explicitly call Warren a liar. It is a delicate question- to deny making the statement clearly implies that he thinks she is a liar, but do you make the statement directly? Given CNN's performance last night, I think the clear, direct statement is now needed.
The moderation of the debate was quite good. One moderator was a woman who works as a journalist in Iowa, and another moderator was a Black woman. Both were superb.
The third moderator was Wolf Blitzer, and he was OK.
Most of the questions were challenging, and important issues were debated.
Six candidates on the stage were not too many. Each candidate had plenty of time to speak.
Well, I can understand the 'gender' elements of the "sequence" you cite but "sexual?!? I'm afraid I lack the imagination for that - is there ANYTHING 'sexual' about either Sanders or Warren..?! Not to mention, aren't "sexual symbolism and gender politics" pretty much the same standard toast these days? Zzzzz
I wondered, while watching the debate last night, whether or not Sanders would explicitly call Warren a liar
I think everyone in the audience understood that Sanders did not tell Warren that a woman cannot win.
Tommy Duncan said...
This is pretty trivial stuff. My recollection of the 2016 Republican debates is that there were a lot of disagreements with verbal shots taken. Is my memory bad? Or are the Democrats afraid to raise issues, disagree among thmeselves and fight for their beliefs?
The Democrats are entirely afraid of the looniest part of their base, and so are pretty much unwilling to debate 9which is to say: disagree about) any of the issues.
The GOP Establishment, OTOH, absolutely hates the GOP base, and is willing not just to disagree with it, but to attack it.
So yes, you did see a lot more actual disagreement in the GOP debates
My overall impression of the debate last night was this- Biden is going walk away with this unless he wets himself in public. As of last week, I thought it probable that Warren withdraws after New Hampshire (I still believe she craters in Iowa and New Hampshire) and Sanders picks up her supporters, but it now looks like neither candidate will benefit from the other withdrawing. Both candidates, for reasons I can't quite understand, targeted each other rather than taking aim at the biggest, fattest turkey at the debates- Biden.
So she didn't leave him hanging and walk away, she spoke to him, listened to what he said, even if perfunctorily, and then made some commentary that appears to be mild scolding. I take back my earlier criticism of her.
That all these Bernie folks are upset at her tells me they believe him and that she lied about him having said a woman can't be elected. I'm good with that, not having a dog in this hunt, because she's a terrible candidate and is the one that played woman card in the first place.
After yesterday, and using the left's logic, if you're still a Warren supporter, you're okay with Milwaukee burning.
Highlander: give them all swords. There can be only one.
Yancey Ward said...
Both candidates, for reasons I can't quite understand, targeted each other rather than taking aim at the biggest, fattest turkey at the debates- Biden.
IMOA, they're running on the "lanes" hypothesis. Bernie and Warren are "in the same lane", i.e. competing for the same voters: the left wing nuts. Attacking Biden, who's in a different "lane", "at best" causes anyone who goes away from him to evenly split between the other candidates, "at worst" causes those voters to go to everyone but the one who attacked Biden.
The "evidence" for this is from the 2016 GOP Primary:
Chris Christie smoked Rubio in the NH debate, essentially ending any chance of Rubio winning. But the Rubio supporters didn't go to Christie.
Rubio actually landed some good attacks on Trump in one debate. Trump's support dropped, but Rubio's didn't go up.
When Warren was going up, Bernie went down. Now that Warren's going down, Bernie's going back up. So Warren and Bernie fang each other, each pissing of the other's supporters, but not caring because they're convinced those supporters are "stuck in their lane" and have no place else to go.
You, and I, both think they're wrong about the voters options. are we right? i don't know. But, we will get to see the answer. :-)
@Yancey Ward, I concur with your analysis. While they’re busy carving each other to shreds Biden or Bloomie will walk away with it. But note, please, that both Bernie and Lizzie have political tin ears.
"If THAT makes you want to vote for Warren, maybe you should stop voting!!!"
No one said anything about voting. We are observing and analyzing. I am watching the behavior of the Democrats as they narrow their field and I will call attention to what I think is interesting and important. I am identifying an effort to take down Warren, and I am attracted to the predicament of a person who is pushed into the underdog position.
For the record, I dislike every single one of the candidates for President and don't enjoy having to vote for someone in this group, but I am a blogger and my focus is on blogging, and my blogging is absolutely not about identifying the best person to win in the end. I didn't even tell you who I voted for in 2016 until 3 years later.
I do vote. It's a lifelong ritual, but I would gladly swear off all voting if I thought it would make my blogging better, so the issue of me not being worthy of voting would be just fine. I really don't care about my personal contribution to the ballot box.
(Bernier v Warren) v Biden really is a "tragedy of the commons" situation, which makes me want to LMAO
To get rid of Biden, they need someone who values their left wing political views more than they value their own personal power. But, no politician who actually values society over their own personal power supports left wing views, since they so obviously make society worse off (see Venezuela).
So everyone on that stage is in it for themselves. They all know that someone needs to take down Biden. But they all believe, possibly correctly, that however does it will take themselves down in the process.
So everyone sits there, fanging the other people "in their lane", hoping that someone else will go after Biden.
It is to make one laugh!
Does everyone notice how the main purpose of the Captch images is to help teh Google self-driving car figure out where the significant road features are?
I watched part of CNN last night, and there was a GO Warren vibe going on there. Watch that, and maybe you'll start supporting Bernie.
Really, the story that Bernie told Warren a woman can't win doesn't make any sense. It doesn't seem like something Bernie would think, so it doesn't ring true. He obviously thought Hillary would win.
I'm assuming that she has mortally wounded herself with this. And she richly deserves it.
If women feel that she is being agressed, that's their prerogative. Bernie would be best served, I think, by saying, "Fuck that." He needs to react like Trump would. Nobody, not even frail females (not all females, mind you, the frail ones who think she's being agressed) want a weakling to carry their banner.
"They all know that someone needs to take down Biden. But they all believe, possibly correctly, that however does it will take themselves down in the process."
I'm wondering if they don't all have cross-agreements to stay away from each other's vulnerable spots.
There are no laws in this nation that say that you have to vote. As for myself, I have detested John McCain like forever, and when he ran against Barack Hussein Obama, I did not vote for POTUS that year. The last thing on my mind was to vote for BHO, because I had to vote for someone.
W.B. Picklesworth is probably asking the right question here- what would Trump have done in Sanders' position last night? It definitely wouldn't have solely consisted of a simple denial and look of disbelief when the CNN moderator phrased questions assuming the truth of Warren's claim. Sanders is repeating the same damn mistakes he made in 2016.
Greg,
I think you are quite right here, but at some point you have show a fighting spirit and go after your immediate opponents, and for both Sanders and Warren, that opponent is Biden regardless of what "lanes" they are in politically. Splitting that lane between them is a sure way to guarantee they both lose. If Biden wins Iowa and/or New Hampshire, the race will end rapidly- he will wrap up the nomination by the end of April.
Rory said...
"They all know that someone needs to take down Biden. But they all believe, possibly correctly, that however does it will take themselves down in the process."
I'm wondering if they don't all have cross-agreements to stay away from each other's vulnerable spots.
They could. be rather stupid of them.
I guess when you live your life in the Left's bubble, you think that an accusation will only matter if it's made by a Democrat.
They're going to find out they're wrong about that, when Trump goes after all the weaknesses they've let through
I think there is a good chance that Biden finishes 3rd or worse in both Iowa and New Hampshire, but the other candidates seem to be depending on that happening with no effort on their part. To his credit, Sanders has tried to launch an attack on Biden for the Iraq war vote, but he didn't press that last night to any great effect.
Sex politics. Get a room.
biden was blaming Libya on the authorization of use of force resolution, Shirley, and sanders was ignoring the casualty in last week's attack,
Mike Sylwester said...
I have the impression that there has NOT been any discussion of immigration in any of these debates.
Every single one of them said "undocumented" immigrants should get free health care paid for by us.
They raised their hands.
Every one.
Elizabeth underestimated the power and determination of the communists when she stuck it to Bernie. Bernie is their best shot ever and they won’t go quietly.
If Bern is the nominee, Trump should double his security.
Look, Sanders is in the driver's seat. The shots are being taken at HIM. Warren has been sent, or has launched herself, on a kamikaze civilly mission. She's always been nasty and not in the good kind of way. This is her last chance to even matter. She can't win the nom, but if she shanks Bernie, Liz can maybe count on a bone to be thrown her-Biden's VP maybe.
So that's all there is to her.
She will fail. NYT will fail. O'Keefe's video will hurt him later, but not in the primary. Real Ls think Biden is feeble, a caretaker, an order-taker.
Sanders has the true believers. IMHO the D establishment, which he and the AOC wing would sweep away practically like a purge IF THEY WON, is best off letting them go out in a blaze of glory. They can make him lose or not help him win, plus of course they have PDT to do their dirty work. They crash in 2020, then everybody in the commie wing gets run out of the building. Return of the center-left. Hmm?
That is the most dramatic and most intimate part of the encounter. She wouldn't reach out to his hand when it was offered in the shaking position, but she sprang into receptive openness when he came at her with his aggressive pointer.
in other words, Warren desperately wants to get laid.
If he actually said it in 2018, maybe Sanders didn't really mean a woman can't win the Presidency, maybe he really meant that a woman Democrat (or, for that matter, any Democrat) can win the Presidency in 2020.
Wendybar said
I can't wait to laugh at her when Donald Trump beats her. Then she will cry about sexism, and racism making it impossible for her to be President.
At that point, is Sanders a stooge of Putin? Full circle!
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