२५ जानेवारी, २०२०

"Andrew’s personality is like a tuning fork realigning us with something we need to retrieve, taking us back to a more innocent time, making us remember to chuckle...."

"This is not an unserious issue at all, for that chuckle has more power to take us over the line in 2020 than does all the anger in the world. Quite simply, the demon doesn’t know how to eat it. Andrew is light in tone, but he is deep in substance."

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Part 3 of 3: It’s not a transactional politics, but a relational one, that will win in 2020. And that takes me to Andrew. Three personality characteristics define how Andrew comes across. They are self-confidence, levity, and positivity. Many believe these are less important than the details of his stances on health care, the economy, or foreign affairs. But such things are every bit as important as where he stands on those issues, because at a time like this the issues aren’t the only issue. The most important thing is that we win in 2020. Nothing, nothing, nothing is more important. We won’t beat Trump only on the issues; if that were the case, he wouldn’t be president today. We will beat him by forging an emotional connection with the American people that is more compelling than his. Self-confidence, levity and positivity are exactly what America has lost and needs to regain. It’s also what millions of Americans long for. Andrew’s personality is like a tuning fork realigning us with something we need to retrieve, taking us back to a more innocent time, making us remember to chuckle. There was a time, not so long ago, when America was self-confident and positive about our future. This is not an unserious issue at all, for that chuckle has more power to take us over the line in 2020 than does all the anger in the world. Quite simply, the demon doesn’t know how to eat it. Andrew is light in tone, but he is deep in substance. I know from first hand experience the breadth of his intellect and the expansiveness of his heart. That “humanity first” stuff applies not only to his policies but to how he goes through life. Bernie and Elizabeth will make it past Iowa and beyond; I admire them both, but right now they don’t need my help. I’m lending my support to Andrew in Iowa, hopefully to help him get past the early primaries & remind us not to take ourselves too seriously. We need that this year. We need to lighten up on a personal level, because the moment is so serious on a political level. Otherwise the months ahead will be too tough on all of us. The only one who’d be laughing at the end of the year is Trump. And we must not, must not, must not let that happen.

A post shared by Marianne Williamson (@mariannewilliamson) on

१२१ टिप्पण्या:

tcrosse म्हणाले...

She's on a first-name basis with everyone but Donald.

Ryan म्हणाले...

"The demon doesnt know how to eat it."

Huh?

rehajm म्हणाले...

So now Joe Liz Bern Andrew and the billionaires. As more stick around it is incentivize for the losers to stay with an expectation of a clean slate come Milwaukee...

whitney म्हणाले...

Tuning Forks are popping up everywhere. We're out of alignment. There's no Harmony. The notes are wrong.

Here's a link to the $75 tuning fork with clear quartz crystal that I initially saw here at Althouse

https://shop.konmari.com/products/konmari-decor-konmari-tuning-fork-crystal-set-quartz?_pos=2&_sid=6eec31e9c&_

traditionalguy म्हणाले...

Don't worry. The Demon is figuring out how to eat Yang's shitick as we speak.

Lucid-Ideas म्हणाले...

Couldn't agree more. Andrew's Yang is my Ying. The bodhisattva slaying our demons, and listening to him makes me open up my heart chakra, especially when he tells me about my $1000 yangbucks and comes prepared with cool-whip.

Unknown म्हणाले...

Welfare for All

Yang does have humorous policies

Gahrie म्हणाले...

I'm self confident and positive about the future now.

hawkeyedjb म्हणाले...

I wonder if Andrew realizes that, even if you give them $1000 a month, the bums in San Francisco will still be shitting in the street? Maybe when he sees it's not working, he'll up the ante to $5000 a month. Still not enough to rent an apartment and have money left over for drugs, but you gotta try something.

cronus titan म्हणाले...

Sad that she dropped out of the race. Her zaniness is awesome and a welcome respite from the tedious ramblings of the other candidates.

J. Farmer म्हणाले...

I am ambivalent on the guaranteed basic income. I thought Charles Murray's 2006 book In Our Hands made a pretty persuasive case. While Yang's "Freedom Dividend" does sound a bit hokey and gimmicky, it's an idea that's been floated since at least the late 18th century, when Thomas Pain advocated a "citizen's dividend" in his pamphlet Agrarian Justice.

Lurker21 म्हणाले...

Momma just can't get enough Yang.

David Begley म्हणाले...

That settles that! Yang wins!

Mary Beth म्हणाले...

TL;DR - I'm not endorsing anyone, but I'm going Yang Gang for Iowa because he makes me laugh.

Roger Sweeny म्हणाले...

Trump has no self-confidence.
He never jokes.
He is never positive.

That's why he must not, must not, must not win in November.

Francisco D म्हणाले...

These people either really live in a bubble and believe their own bullshit about restoring the American Spirit or ...

... they are cheesy con artists.

I vote for the latter.


Just a thought about guaranteed basic income - How would that affect inflation, particularly on street drugs?

chuck म्हणाले...

I skipped to the end of the chapter, did I miss anything?

Darrell म्हणाले...

Trump for the win!

Marty Keller म्हणाले...

Can't detect the glimmer of a ghost of a chuckle in Ms. Williamson's metaphysical musings. Greta does this world-coming-to-an-end schtick better. Sad.

Oh, what would we give for the reincarnation of Al Smith and the happy days returning! Perhaps Andrew is Al reincarnated?

Paco Wové म्हणाले...

"The only one who'd be laughing at the end of the year is Trump."

Well, not the only one. I'd be laughing too.

joshbraid म्हणाले...

Lucid-Ideas at 1/25/20, 8:21 AM wins it for me. Many of her sentences make sense. She understands that the demon of anger doesn't win over people, just helps them to be more miserable. She implicitly understands that Trump is far more appealing than the Shrill Crew of candidates yet cannot admit that the Democratic party is now powered by the demons of anger and hatred. I read alot about politics and I still don't know anything about Yang except he also thinks giving away other peoples' money is the solution. The incompetence of the Shrill Crew is awesome.

Big Mike म्हणाले...

Andrew Yang wants to confiscate our automobiles. Andrew Yang can kiss my ass. Nearest grocery store is miles away.

Big Mike म्हणाले...

I am ambivalent on the guaranteed basic income. I thought Charles Murray's 2006 book In Our Hands made a pretty persuasive case.

Finland, one of the most homogeneous societies on the face of this earth, couldn’t make guaranteed basic income work. What makes anyone think it would work anywhere more heterogenous. There’s theory, and then there’s the real world.

robother म्हणाले...

Marianne takes us down, to her place by the river....

Maillard Reactionary म्हणाले...

What is she smoking? And where can I get some?

rhhardin म्हणाले...

I just watched an miniseries episode where the wife who hasn't been putting out berates and throws out the husband for having sex with the household lady robot.

Self-awareness isn't big in women.

WK म्हणाले...

When you come to a tuning fork in the road, take it.

J. Farmer म्हणाले...
ही टिप्पणी लेखकाना हलविली आहे.
Sam L. म्हणाले...

Dems hate, Hate, HATE Republican voters.

J. Farmer म्हणाले...

@Big Mike:

Finland, one of the most homogeneous societies on the face of this earth, couldn’t make guaranteed basic income work. What makes anyone think it would work anywhere more heterogenous. There’s theory, and then there’s the real world.

I am not sure what you mean by "couldn't make [it] work." The Finland experiment involved 2,000 unemployed people over a period of two years. And only preliminary data has been released so far. The full results won't be known until later this year. But it's important to note that the Finnish experiment looked primarily at labour market effects, which seem to be negligible. But the primary goal of the UBI is not to reduce unemployment.

Fernandinande म्हणाले...

Andrew’s personality is like a tuning fork realigning us with something we need to retrieve, taking us back to a more innocent time, making us remember to chuckle.

Prince Andrew walks into a bar and the bartender says "Sorry, dude, everyone in here is over 21."

pacwest म्हणाले...

Is that tuning fork in her loins anything like Matthew's tingle up his leg? Inquiring minds want to know.

China, NK, Iran, economy, trade, pandemic, Brexit, immigration, corruption, Venezuela, Russia, tuning forks.

Sebastian म्हणाले...

"must not let that happen"

But why not? What has Trump done wrong?

Unemployment is low, stocks are up.

Illegal immigration is down.

Deals with Mexico, Canada, and China improve America's position.

Military is getting stronger.

Stupid regulations are being weeded out.

Sensible judges are getting appointed

Instead of coddling Iran, we are resisting.

We are pressing allies to step up their own defense.

The collusion hoax was exposed as a coup attempt.

So, what has he done wrong?

Fernandinande म्हणाले...

Tuning forks - threat or menace?

chuck म्हणाले...

My difficulty with the UBI is that we're all a bit better for a touch of the lash. Without the lash of debt, what would have Dostoyevsky produced? Balzac? Better would be if there was always a way to earn a living. Chopping wood, sweeping streets, anything at all that makes one feel that they are in some small way masters of their fate.

stlcdr म्हणाले...

Needs more crystals.

ga6 म्हणाले...

Did she get to the part about the cake in the park? I really had to stop reading when visions of a grizzled Richard Harris appeared in my head.

stlcdr म्हणाले...

Blogger J. Farmer said...
...

I am not sure what you mean by "couldn't make [it] work." The Finland experiment involved 2,000 unemployed people over a period of two years. And only preliminary data has been released so far. The full results won't be known until later this year. But it's important to note that the Finnish experiment looked primarily at labour market effects, which seem to be negligible. But the primary goal of the UBI is not to reduce unemployment.

1/25/20, 9:17 AM


In addition, it's not universal if you only [try it out] on some of the population.

rhhardin म्हणाले...

A tuning fork doesn't do anything but give you a pitch to start tuning from. It's like an oboe to an orchestra. The pitch doesn't matter much but everybody's got to use the same one.

rhhardin म्हणाले...

Andrew's voice is like a capo on a guitar. Play in any key with equal effort.

J. Farmer म्हणाले...

A tuning fork doesn't do anything but give you a pitch to start tuning from. It's like an oboe to an orchestra. The pitch doesn't matter much but everybody's got to use the same one.

New Agey people are really into "vibrations." It ranks up there with "energy" and "toxins."

Wince म्हणाले...

Self-confidence, levity and positivity are exactly what America has lost and needs to regain.

Somebody tell her that's what MAGA stands for.

tcrosse म्हणाले...

OTOH Klobuchar is like a salad fork.

Roger Sweeny म्हणाले...

Is that a tuning fork in your pants or are you just glad to see me?

stephen cooper म्हणाले...

Sebastian, he has made pro-abortion hypocrites feel guilty and as if the joke is on them.

madAsHell म्हणाले...

Andrew is light in tone, but he is deep in substance.

Andrew is my new boyfriend. He can be your boyfriend too!!

This is the Star Trek episode with the computer named Landrew......dead serious. Everyone wants Landrew to solve their problems. Of course, Captain Kirk smokes the computer with some nifty Prime Directive logic.

No....really....they used to smoke to show the computer was defeated.

Seeing Red म्हणाले...

I thought she was talking about a robot until I read further.

JAORE म्हणाले...

Hey, I'm retired with fairly substantial savings. Do I get an extra $1,000 a month? If so, why? If not, why not?

Fire up the printing presses, boys. There is cash to deliver.

Seeing Red म्हणाले...

Finland’s parliamentary government collapsed over health care about a year ago, Farmer.


They can’t make it work, and they’re tiny.

Seeing Red म्हणाले...

Self-confidence, levity and positivity are exactly what America has lost and needs to regain.


She’s out of touch, talking to the wrong people.

She should talk to those 1500 temporary workers I think GMC made permanent.

NCMoss म्हणाले...

Marianne is a real kindred spirit to Andrew, or in this case a sympathetic vibration.

walter म्हणाले...

"Quite simply, the demon doesn’t know how to eat it."
Eat it!

J. Farmer म्हणाले...

@Seeing Red:

Finland’s parliamentary government collapsed over health care about a year ago, Farmer.


They can’t make it work, and they’re tiny.


Finland’s Basic Income Experiment Kind of Works, but Not in Employment Terms

Again, the Finnish experiment was targeted only at 2,000 unemployed people and was being looked at as an alternative to unemployment benefits. The results were disappointing in the sense that they did not reduce the overall level of unemployment. But again, UBI advocates do not advocate it as a means to reduce unemployment.

J. Farmer म्हणाले...

"The Finnish experiment was about partial basic income targeting able-bodied people without work, it was not about universal basic income. That has been a source of major confusion around the experiment and a source of critique of it."

Heikki Hiil­amo: "Dis­ap­point­ing res­ults from the Finnish ba­sic in­come ex­per­i­ment"

Fernandinande म्हणाले...

Woman Menial Airs Nil

walter म्हणाले...

https://www.yang2020.com/what-is-freedom-dividend-faq/
"UBI increases entrepreneurship because it provides for basic needs in the early lean days of a company and acts as a safety net if the business fails. It also gives you more consumers to sell to because everyone has more disposable income. The Roosevelt Institute found that a UBI would create 4.6 million jobs and grow the economy by 12 percent continuously. UBI would be the greatest catalyst for new jobs, entrepreneurship, and creativity we have ever seen."
<
"UBI encourages people to find work. Many current welfare programs take away benefits when recipients find work, sometimes leaving them financially worse off than before they were employed. UBI is for all adults, regardless of employment status, so recipients are free to seek additional income, which most everyone does."
--
It appears Yang thinks it's about jobs/employment.

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent म्हणाले...

Anyone who has experience with the personal folly that results in so much of poverty knows that UBI is not going to change anything for the better. Indeed, it’s more likely to subsidize the destructive behavior that, as someone noted above, has people shitting in the streets.

Bob Smith म्हणाले...

Oh, you mean that Andrew.

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent म्हणाले...

“UBI is for all adults, regardless of employment status, so recipients are free to seek additional income, which most everyone does."

Or additional meth, Thunderbird, or Doritos. Color me cynical, but I’ve seen a lot more of this up close than Yang ever has or will and it’s a shuck, just another giveaway.

Yancey Ward म्हणाले...

That is how you do an endorsement, unfortunately her endorsement is basically worthless to Yang.

rcocean म्हणाले...

Only a female could write/talk like this and be thought of as Funny, interesting, or God Help us, intelligent.

Sexism at work.

rcocean म्हणाले...

Giving everyone $12,000 - and what happens to all the other Government benefits? Is this an ADDITIONAL $12,000 or a replacement of $12,000 if you're already receiving it?.

rcocean म्हणाले...

No controls over Tution/expenses in college education. Almost no controls over health care costs.

That's the problem. No one wants to solve it. Instead people want to hand out more $$.

Yancey Ward म्हणाले...

A UBI would be worthless in short order. It is simple logic- you can't feed and house deadbeats if there is no social shaming involved in being a deadbeat. If you give individuals a poverty level income for no work, a lot of them will stop working and producing the value that allows them to be fed, clothed, housed, and entertained. This drives up the monetary value of all those items purchased and correspoindingly devalues the UBI requiring it be raised. Rinse and repeat enough times, and the UBI just becomes the new zero income.

Yancey Ward म्हणाले...

rcocean asked:

"Giving everyone $12,000 - and what happens to all the other Government benefits? Is this an ADDITIONAL $12,000 or a replacement of $12,000 if you're already receiving it?"

The idea is supposed to be that it replaces all the other income supporting welfare programs (food stamps, housing vouchers, welfare payments etc.). However, I think rational people will quickly realize it will never work that way- a lot of people getting $12K a year will still end up destitute and requiring top ups to get them through the year, and you will just end up back with the welfare system we have with a UBI added in, but now with fewer people working than would have been so otherwise.

walter म्हणाले...

"Those who served our country and are facing a disability as a result will continue to receive their benefits on top of the $1,000 per month.

Social Security retirement benefits stack with UBI. Since it is a benefit that people pay into throughout their lives, that money is properly viewed as belonging to them, and they shouldn’t need to choose.

Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI) is based on earned work credits. Supplemental Security Income (SSI) is a means-tested program. You can collect both SSDI and $1,000 a month. Most people who are legally disabled receive both SSDI and SSI. Under the universal basic income, those who are legally disabled would have a choice between collecting SSDI and the $1,000, or collecting SSDI and SSI, whichever is more generous.

Even some people who receive more than $1,000 a month in SSI would choose to take the Freedom Dividend because it has no preconditions. Basic income removes these requirements and guarantees an income, regardless of other factors.

Decades of research on cash transfer programs have found that the only people who work fewer hours when given direct cash transfers are new mothers and kids in school. In several studies, high school graduation rates rose. In some cases, people even work more. Quoting a Harvard and MIT study, “we find no effects of [cash] transfers on work behavior.”

In our plan, each adult would receive only $12,000 a year. This is barely enough to live on in many places and certainly not enough to afford much in the way of experiences or advancement. To get ahead meaningfully, people will still need to get out there and work."

Chris N म्हणाले...

By the red rocks of Sedona
I left Ilona
In her roadside sweat lodge
Selling knick knacks, hodgepodge
‘Baby I’ll phone ya’

-YangGangMainFrameBlockchainfreetangTechnoCommunitarianBureaucraticInnovation

Fernandinande म्हणाले...

Here's a link to the $75 tuning fork with clear quartz crystal that I initially saw here at Althouse

That's only $9.38 for each of the major chakras.

ProTip: you can do them all at the same time!

J. Farmer म्हणाले...

Or additional meth, Thunderbird, or Doritos. Color me cynical, but I’ve seen a lot more of this up close than Yang ever has or will and it’s a shuck, just another giveaway.

As someone who has spent his entire professional life up close and personal with the underclass, I see where you're coming from. No, the UBI will not cure the human condition. There will always be people who are lazy, ignorant, and self-destructive. This article, Guaranteed paycheck: Does a 'basic income' encourage laziness?, in Christian Science Monitor gives a pretty fair hearing to both sides of the debate.

Big Mike म्हणाले...

Farmer inadvertently summarizes all that is wrong with the social sciences (so-called “science”). Someone concocts a theory, cherry picks some facts, ignores some other facts that are inconvenient, wraps it up in appropriate jargon, and rakes in royalties, gets tenure, whatever.

Then someone actually tries out the theories in the real world, and they don’t work as advertised. That’s when the social scientists (self-proclaimed scientists) find nits in the way the theory was applied. Because the theory is just so-o-o beautiful, how dare reality not conform!

So pick your nits, Farmer. But as far as people who live in the real world are concerned, Finland finished the theories of Charles Murray.

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM म्हणाले...

Weird-- I had a dream about Yang last night--

he looked so cuddly I wanted to hug him, but just as I went
to hold him, he turned into this big Samoyed named Lloyd !!
Dang!
Dogone
Yang!

Tomcc म्हणाले...

Walter @ 12:15; thanks for that tidbit. The last line: "To get ahead meaningfully, people will still need to get out there and work." This ignores the issue of human nature that economists label "satisficing". If I can work at a job that pays $12k per year, yet live on $24k per year, why would I seek to advance? Fortunately, many people have greater aspirations, but the people that do not will be better off, though not more productive. Furthermore, I suspect it will encourage more people to not seek work.
I've been pondering a campaign slogan for Mr. Trump in the last few days. Maybe "Peace and Prosperity"?

Seeing Red म्हणाले...

UBI increases entrepreneurship because it provides for basic needs in the early lean days of a company and acts as a safety net if the business fails.


Pelosi said the same about Obamacare.

Now I read younger people complaining about the high cost and we must “do something.”

M Jordan म्हणाले...

This woman is nuts. Could we all just admit that?

robother म्हणाले...

Tuning fork or not, Marianne's endorsement proves that the Yang 2020 has passed the Turing test with flying colors.

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent म्हणाले...

"Decades of research on cash transfer programs have found that the only people who work fewer hours when given direct cash transfers are new mothers and kids in school."

Then decades of research are a worthless absurdity. I, personally, would work fewer hours if the government wanted to make up the difference. I know many well-paid people whose work is somewhat dependent on fair weather who regularly game unemployment benefits to provide an extended winter break. The notion that it's human nature to reject a free ride (when it entails no loss of living standards) is ridiculous.

narciso म्हणाले...


that's most of this crew,

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/bernie-sanders-isnt-a-democratic-socialist-hes-an-all-out-marxist

J. Farmer म्हणाले...

@Big Mike:

So pick your nits, Farmer. But as far as people who live in the real world are concerned, Finland finished the theories of Charles Murray.

A two-year study on 2,000 randomly chosen unemployed people that was never intended to be a universal basic income proves that universal basic income doesn't work. Gotcha.

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent म्हणाले...

“A two-year study on 2,000 randomly chosen unemployed people that was never intended to be a universal basic income proves that universal basic income doesn't work. Gotcha.”

Perhaps not, but I found it interesting that two-thirds of the test group didn’t even respond to the researcher’s enquiries. When you’re middle-class, you’re the government’s sucker. When you’re poor, you want the government to be your sucker.

J. Farmer म्हणाले...

that's most of this crew,

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/bernie-sanders-isnt-a-democratic-socialist-hes-an-all-out-marxist


Calling someone a Marxist is to the right what calling someone a fascist is to the left. They are scare words that have been totally evacuated of meaning.

J. Farmer म्हणाले...

@The Cracker Emcee Refulgent:

We should certainly be cautious about drawing overly broad conclusions from the Finland example one way or the other. But to act as if it is some definitive debunking of the utility of UBI is absurd. I have some qualms about it myself, but I am not totally opposed to it, and I think it's an idea worth considering. Between outsourcing, mass immigration, and automation, the value of labor is getting squeezed. The neoliberal solution for at least the last 30 years has been worker retaining, and it's pretty much been a failure.

narciso म्हणाले...

If it doesnt work in a small mostly homogenious one its not going to work in a harge heterogenious one.

narciso म्हणाले...

Large homogenious one, social democracy doesnt really work,

n.n म्हणाले...

He's more of a dowsing stick sold to green wanderers seeking an empathetic appeal.

Paco Wové म्हणाले...

"No....really....they used [the] smoke to show the computer was defeated."

Everybody knows you can't run a computer without magic smoke.

stlcdr म्हणाले...

Blogger J. Farmer said...
"The Finnish experiment was about partial basic income targeting able-bodied people without work, it was not about universal basic income. That has been a source of major confusion around the experiment and a source of critique of it."

Heikki Hiil­amo: "Dis­ap­point­ing res­ults from the Finnish ba­sic in­come ex­per­i­ment"

1/25/20, 11:15 AM


Thanks for that link. I don't think it's a major surprise to most who can do basic math, and work for a living.

stlcdr म्हणाले...

Blogger The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...
“A two-year study on 2,000 randomly chosen unemployed people that was never intended to be a universal basic income proves that universal basic income doesn't work. Gotcha.”

Perhaps not, but I found it interesting that two-thirds of the test group didn’t even respond to the researcher’s enquiries. When you’re middle-class, you’re the government’s sucker. When you’re poor, you want the government to be your sucker.

1/25/20, 2:16 PM


[in bold] Indeed. It sounds like just chucked a load of money on the street. Shouldn't they have had an agreement that you get this money in exchange for answering questions in a year's time?

Jupiter म्हणाले...

"I am ambivalent on the guaranteed basic income. I thought Charles Murray's 2006 book In Our Hands made a pretty persuasive case."

Well, let's see. There are two ways to finance a Universal Basic Income. You can raise taxes to the point where they cover $1000/month for every man, woman and child in the US, which would, of course, include people who are here illegally -- let's say, $330 billion a month = approx 4 trillion a year, just a little over what the IRS took in last year, including individual and corporate income taxes, FICA and Medicare ...

Or you can just print money. Sounds a little more likely, given that we're already printing money to cover most Federal expenditures. I guess if you've always wanted to be able to wipe your ass with $100 bills, this would be a great way to get there.

You know, Farmer, a lot of the time, you seem lie you know what you're talking about. So it's nice to have a reminder, once in a while, that your head is so far up your ass you can stick your hand out your mouth and wave to all your crazy friends.

Quaestor म्हणाले...

Is it just me, or has the New Age rendered poor Marianne unable to make sense using language?

Compare her Instagram to this acutonics speil presented by a gaggle of burnt out Berkeley boomers

rcocean म्हणाले...

UBI is INTERESTING in theory but ignores how the real world works. Lets take disabled people and people over say 55 off the table and just talk peeps ages 18-55.

Murray's (or maybe Milton Friedman) idea was: Lets get rid of all these programs and just cut people a check. Cut out the middle man. No more food stamps, welfare workers, Medicaid, etc. Just make is simple. The UBI seems to take it one step further. Just give EVERYONE 12K a year. if you're a biped in the USA you get $12K. But you run into problems:

First people on Government assistance would have the 12K deducted from their Government benefit. People would scream bloody murder and they'd get 12K PLUS Government benefits.

Second, you'd have Billionaires and well-to-do people using the 12K for a Hawaii trip or to buy stupid crap like $12k pet rocks. Result: Massive asset inflation and people asking why is Bill gates getting $12K a year.

Third, stupid people would scammed out of their 12K, or use it for hooker/coke and wouldn't be any better off then they are now. GIve the homeless guy 12k, he's not going to rent an apartment. Young people wouldn't use it college, but would blow it on something dumb and it wouldn't pay for their tuition anyway.

daskol म्हणाले...

We would be better off with Andrew, Marianne or Bernie than with any of the rest of cutouts running for the Dem nomination. Possible we'd be still better off with someone chosen randomly from a phone book. Marianne tried love applied broadly, across party lines, earlier in her campaign. She got burned. So she's trying love applied to a more select circle first. She may be kinda nuts, but she continues to come across as more sensible than the rest of the people vying for the nomination.

rcocean म्हणाले...

Plus $250 million x $1000 = $250 Billion. $250 million x $12,000 is $3,000 Billion!
That's over 3x the Defense budget. Where is this money coming from?
And...

1)Any Foreigner in the USA gets 12K. Talk about an incentive for illegal immigration. collect your #12k, and then zip back to Nigeria or Ireland or the rest of the year.

2) This does zero to help control health care costs or College education costs, or the cost of housing which is killing working class families. It actually makes it worse.

daskol म्हणाले...

Something like UBI under a consumption tax, e.g. the Fair Tax, seems like a radical yet worthwhile social experiment. I'd like to live in a country where we abolished the IRS and payroll and other taxes on productivity. From an incentive perspective, removing the tax on work alongside making it less necessary allows an equation, on paper, in which we wind up more productive hence wealthier and can still afford to be generous beyond the progressive nature of our current tax structure. I can't imagine how we get there from here, because every incremental implementation would create temporarily anyway highly perverse incentives. But it could be a way better way to collect revenue than how we do it today without the perverse incentives or our current revenue collection model. And no IRS!

rcocean म्हणाले...

"the household lady robot."

Is it a "sexy" lady robot?

rcocean म्हणाले...

A VAT tax will be ADDED to the income tax. If you believe it will replace it, show me where this has happened.

Gahrie म्हणाले...

I am ambivalent on the guaranteed basic income. I thought Charles Murray's 2006 book In Our Hands made a pretty persuasive case.

The main point in favor of UBI is that it is not nearly as horrific as some of the alternatives. We humans don't generally handle problems with unneeded people very well.

bobby म्हणाले...

All of the major studies cited say the same thing: everyone who is allowed to steal money out of my wallet ends up better off for it.

Am I allowed to say, I don't care?

narciso म्हणाले...

I've referenced this in the past,

http://www.oldthinkernews.com/2008/07/01/the-reece-committee-social-science-as-a-tool-for-control/

yes that's nearly our entire budget on one program, even if you make only half the people eligible, that's what we're left with,

3G म्हणाले...

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stephen cooper म्हणाले...

People like Marianne like to think of themselves as spiritual, kind, and in essential touch with the good vibes of the universe.

People like that hate it when they are told that they are laughing-stocks and obvious hypocrites, because they

do not care at all about the children who do not get a chance to live a single moment of happiness in this life because

people like Marianne think abortion is fine.

A hundred years from now, everybody will understand.

Poor Marianne. It is sad not to care about others, and it is much much sadder to not care about others when our whole life has been devoted to claiming otherwise.

ceowens म्हणाले...

I'm spending mine on guns and ammo.

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent म्हणाले...


"The main point in favor of UBI is that it is not nearly as horrific as some of the alternatives. We humans don't generally handle problems with unneeded people very well."

Not true in Western Civ, where the idea (and frequently, the practice) of state-provided welfare has been around for a couple of thousand years. And there's no lack of work the the state could require in exchange for it's largesse, so I question the "unneeded". Hire me. Just locally, I can think of scads of things to keep them busy and productive.

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent म्हणाले...

If all else fails they can pick oakum. I'm not sure what that is, but ne'er do wells have been doing it in my reading all my life.

Josephbleau म्हणाले...

Everything old is new again. panem et circenses, the Cura Annonae. The ancient Romans gave wheat for bread to the one million residents of Rome, to stifle riot. Those who won't feed themselves are a danger to the state.

narciso म्हणाले...

Panem being the successor state to the us in the hunger games.

J. Farmer म्हणाले...

@Jupiter:

You know, Farmer, a lot of the time, you seem lie you know what you're talking about. So it's nice to have a reminder, once in a while, that your head is so far up your ass you can stick your hand out your mouth and wave to all your crazy friends.

Sweet of you to say so. Of course, proponents of UBI don't advocate giving an income to "every man, woman and child in the US." So your math is already way off. Some friendly advice next time you want to shoot your mouth off: know what the fuck you're talking about.

narciso म्हणाले...

Thats how they are pitching it, thats still below the poverty line, so what does that solve.

J. Farmer म्हणाले...

@narciso:

Who is "they" and what is "it?"

Ambrose म्हणाले...

I can't take the way she sings, but I love to hear her talk.

stephen cooper म्हणाले...

"they" : those who claim that they are intelligent, laudable people who support UBI

"it": UBI (which is below the poverty line for people who do not also have access to guns and hunting and community gardens and generous relatives)

if you all ever want a narciso translator just ask, he always makes sense to me.

JAORE म्हणाले...

I Want free tuition and a $1,000 per month stipend (indexed for the inevitable resultant inflation).

I plan to enroll at the nearest college that offers Nude (female) Sketching as a major. Might take me the rest of my life, but by God I will add another degree to my resume.

Terry Ott म्हणाले...

Sebastian, what a naive question asking what Trump has done wrong? More than several things starting with being born. Then he reached chronological adulthood, still living. He skipped Oxford, opting instead for Unorthodoxford. He made a lot of money BEFORE going into public service, which made a few people suspicious inasmuch as that's ass backwards in the eyes of politicians. He continues to be sexist, preferring bull markets to sacred cows. None of those things, however, approaches his inapprorite conduct. He jumped out of the crowd and tripped and then mugged Princess Hillary The Annointed One as she strolled up the red carpet to be coronated. That is the wrongest of all possible wrongs.

narciso म्हणाले...

Thanks steven cooper.

Ubi seems to be a solution in search of a problem

J. Farmer म्हणाले...

@Narciso:

Thanks steven cooper.

Ubi seems to be a solution in search of a problem


In search of a problem? Why do you think traditionally Democratic rust belt precincts flipped for Trump in 2016?

J. Farmer म्हणाले...

if you all ever want a narciso translator just ask, he always makes sense to me.

The UBI is below the poverty line by design.

Kevin म्हणाले...

I finally read her wall of text, and the point as I see it appears to be that she wants to Make America Great Again.

I for one won’t stand around and subject myself to such racism, bigotry, and hate.

Dude1394 म्हणाले...

I guess she is taking about Andrew yang, from the comments. I literally had no clue who she was talking about.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together म्हणाले...

While Yang's "Freedom Dividend" does sound a bit hokey and gimmicky, it's an idea that's been floated since at least the late 18th century, when Thomas Pain advocated a "citizen's dividend" in his pamphlet Agrarian Justice.

So Thomas Paine's idea of "Give me liberty or give me death!" is ok, but not the one where he proposes that every American might do as much good for themselves and society with $1000 monthly as the billionaires are doing with their much larger tax cuts that we've decided to indebt our country with by $1.9 trillion over ten years.

No thank you.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together म्हणाले...

Dems hate, Hate, HATE Republican voters.

Is there something to like about them?

narciso म्हणाले...

how is that helpful,

Maillard Reactionary म्हणाले...

Personally I'm holding out for the candidate who'll give me $5000 a month. I mean, $1K a month is nice and I wouldn't turn it down, but my vote is worth a lot more than that.

It's actually kind of insulting to be valued so cheaply.