२४ नोव्हेंबर, २०१९

"The fumie...were brass images, sometimes set in wooden boards, depicting either the Christ or Mary. Every single person that lived in Nagasaki was ordered..."

"... to go through the [annual] practice of stepping on the fumie.... 'It was an obligation, the commoners, the samurai, the Buddhist monks, even sick people couldn't miss it - they would bring the wooden board to their house. Every single person had to do this... It was quite well thought out because at the time, Christians relied a lot on images. People prayed in front of an image - Mary, Jesus - so many thought that part of the God was inside the image. It was a link to the divine... for them to tread upon this, was something very fearful.'... The Christians who refused to tread on the fumie were killed, or, more commonly, tortured. 'They would sometimes torture them by hanging them over a pit filled with excrement. They would cut slits around their temples to release [the pressure] so they wouldn't die'.... In 1858, the fumie practice was abolished in Nagasaki. In 1873, Japan's long ban on Christianity was finally lifted - more than two centuries after it was first put in place. 'When Japan opened up its borders again, around 20,000 Christians reappeared and came out of hiding,' said Mr Mullins. 'In that sense, the [fumie] policies were effective. You'd gone from around 500,000 to 20,000 Christians.'...  'It is only because some made an existential decision to trample on the fumie, despite their belief that this action was gravely sinful, that Christianity in Japan was able to survive.'"

From "The Japanese Christians forced to trample on Christ" (BBC). This article coincides with a visit to Nagasaki by Pope Francis.

४८ टिप्पण्या:

Ken B म्हणाले...

The best performances of Bach cantatas you can find are the ones from Suzuki and his group in Japan. He is a Christian raised as one in Japan.

Lucid-Ideas म्हणाले...

Scorses's "Silence" with Liam Neeson was a good movie in my opinion even though it got trampled by critics. And I thought Scorsese was sacred to these people...hm.

daskol म्हणाले...

On display at the UN in NYC are various artifacts from a Nagasaki church that were destroyed by the h-bomb, including a scorched statue of St. Agnes with a lamb. On a recent tour I saw this and learned that the bomb landed during mass and destroyed the cathedral and all those in it. Christians have had a rough go in Japan.

Seeing Red म्हणाले...

Were leaflets dropped in warning before the bomb(s) dropped?

Maillard Reactionary म्हणाले...

Religion, taken seriously, brings out the best and worst in mankind. E.g. as Ken B points out the sublime music of Bach, and by extension, Western culture. Then there is Islam.

I avoid it partly for that reason.

Japan's real religion is fear and distrust of foreigners. They do have a precious cultural legacy to protect, and it is worth protecting, but that tendency brings its own problems. (See first sentence.)

That said, to be clear, Japanese people individually are often delightful and I have been lucky to have known some as friends. Japan deserves no special opprobrium in this way.

The problem of "how shall we live" remains a difficult nut to crack.

whitney म्हणाले...

That is what Scorsese's movie Silence was about. 2016

Ann Althouse म्हणाले...

I’ll put the movie on my watch list. Thanks.

gilbar म्हणाले...

Blogger daskol said...
On display at the UN in NYC are various artifacts from a Nagasaki church that were destroyed by the h-bomb


When did This happen? I hadn't heard about That. Man that city can't catch a break!
Not only was it the first city hit by an A-bomb
Not only was it THE ONLY CITY hit by an h-bomb
They somehow hushed it up, so that in the Whole World; the only person that knew, was daskol

ps. Someone will say: "Oh! you're nit picking! an A-bomb and an H-bomb are the same thing"
And i'll Say: IN YOUR IGNORANT DREAMS

Ken B म्हणाले...

I read the novel Silence by Endo ages ago. Don’t remember it well.

gilbar म्हणाले...

how many orders of magnitude was a B-41 H-bomb larger than the bomb dropped on Hiroshima?
EXACTLY as many as Little man was larger than the largest conventional bomb used in WWII

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves म्हणाले...

but it's the Christians who are evil.

Grant म्हणाले...

Endo’s novel is superb.

mockturtle म्हणाले...

It was quite well thought out because at the time, Christians relied a lot on images. People prayed in front of an image

Catholics, maybe...

JAORE म्हणाले...

destroyed by the h-bomb

Nope. Both bombs dropped in WWII were fission (i.e. "A") bombs.

The "H" bomb is a fusion bomb. Much more powerful,but invented well after WWII.

mockturtle म्हणाले...

The squadron leader of the Pearl Harbor air attack, Mitsuo Fuchida, became a Christian after the war. He wrote a book, which I have, called, For That One Day about his life and career. Very interesting perspective on the Japanese offensive. The actor who portrayed him in Tora! Tora! Tora! was also a Christian.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves म्हणाले...

Indeed, Mock. Other than Catholics, Christians do not rely on images. a simple cross is about it.

Paul Doty म्हणाले...

Doesn't bother the Christians that don't worship idols.

mikee म्हणाले...

1858: That was five years after Perry sailed the US fleet into Tokyo harbor, ushering in the modern era in Japan.

And the misunderstanding of why Christians would not stamp on a sacred image is a bit more nuanced than mere idol worship. To save one's life by stepping on a fumie would require a horrendous lie, liable to damn one to eternal perdition in Hell. It wasn't that it was an sacred idol one shouldn't step on to avoid death. It was that doing so was a lying refutation of one's true faith, and that was problematical. One shouldn't lie about one's Catholic faith, even to save one's life, or so go the teachings of the Church.

Catholics have tried to explain this difference between art that tells us about our faith and its historical figures, while NOT worshipping a graven image, since forever. Protestant schisms and previous heresies have arisen over everything from the crucifix in churches to saint's relics. Methodists avoid paying for intervention of saints in their church lobby, but their stained glass windows are boring as hell.

That Catholics had problems historically with crossing the line from appreciation of art to worship of an image is also true, but does not eliminate the main point: fumies weren't sacred, but one's immortal soul was worth more than a lie.

Marc in Eugene म्हणाले...

The BBC evidently no longer employs competent editors.

Also, one hopes that the assertion of Professor Ramos that "so many thought that part of the God was inside the image" is not true, or (and this is much more likely) that he has been mistranslated or otherwise misrepresented. Of course Catholics and members of the Orthodox churches who are properly instructed in the truths of religion do not believe that 'part of the God is in the images', be they crosses or crucifixes or icons or statutes.

Dude1394 म्हणाले...

I’ve been listening to hardcore history about the rise of Japan leading to the Second World War. They were WORSE than Comanches and the Comanches were pretty damn bad. Raping of entire hospital staff nurses then killing them, disembowling, wicked stuff.

mockturtle म्हणाले...

One shouldn't lie about one's Catholic faith, even to save one's life, or so go the teachings of the Church.

And yet, Peter denied Christ three times.

Yet I do agree that Christians should not deny their faith even in the face of death or torture. And Jesus did say, "But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven."

YoungHegelian म्हणाले...

Sometimes, the Japanese authorities did more than make Christians trod on sacred images.

Somewhat in defense of the Japanese authorities, it's not like they were much nicer to their own people, Shinto or Buddhist, when it came to corporal punishment.

Jonathan Swift references the threading on images in Japan, but uses it as a chance to make fun of the greed of the Dutch. In Gulliver's Travels, when Gulliver goes to Japan, the Japanese Court seeks to make him walk on an image of Jesus. He refuses, thus bewildering the Japanese, because all the Dutch merchants that visited them said they were Christian but then proceeded to walk on the image of Jesus. So, now the court doesn't know what to make of Gulliver.

Maillard Reactionary म्हणाले...

mikee is correct.

mockturtle म्हणाले...

It was Ieyasu Tokugawa who kicked out the Christians [Catholics] when he became shogun in 1600 after the battle of Sekigahara. And he kept them out during his reign and, IIRC, they were kept out during the entire Tokugawa family shogunate.

Quaestor म्हणाले...

Seeing Red writes: Were leaflets dropped in warning before the bomb(s) dropped?

The Office of War Information (OWI) notice #2106, dubbed the “LeMay bombing leaflet,” was delivered to Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and 33 other Japanese cities on 1 August 1945. The front of the leaflet showed a photograph of B-29 bombers, known to the Japanese as the Bee-san, dropping ordnance. Japanese text on the reverse side of the leaflet carried the following warning:

“Read this carefully as it may save your life or the life of a relative or friend. In the next few days, some or all of the cities named on the reverse side will be destroyed by American bombs. These cities contain military installations and workshops or factories which produce military goods. We are determined to destroy all of the tools of the military clique which they are using to prolong this useless war. But, unfortunately, bombs have no eyes. So, in accordance with America’s humanitarian policies, the American Air Force, which does not wish to injure innocent people, now gives you warning to evacuate the cities named and save your lives. America is not fighting the Japanese people but is fighting the military clique which has enslaved the Japanese people. The peace which America will bring will free the people from the oppression of the military clique and mean the emergence of a new and better Japan. You can restore peace by demanding new and good leaders who will end the war. We cannot promise that only these cities will be among those attacked but some or all of them will be, so heed this warning and evacuate these cities immediately.”

Front
Back

mockturtle म्हणाले...

Of course, Quaestor, most probably thought it was only propaganda. And it was, in part. The Japanese were already suffering horribly from the deprivation the war effort had caused but national pride was still strong. Plus, saving one's life was often less important than saving face.

readering म्हणाले...

Nagasaki was secondary target. Too much cloud cover over primary. Fortunes of war.

h म्हणाले...

Can we agree that the Japanese of today (2019) are not responsible for the policies and attitudes of Japanese in the mid-19th Century? If we can agree to that, can we also agree that the Americans of today are not responsible for the policies and attitudes of the US in the mid-19th Century? And if your answer to the first question is "yes" and your answer to the second question is "no", WHY?

Diamondhead म्हणाले...

It's not only Roman Catholics who use images in their piety - the Orthodox and Lutherans also do (in somewhat different ways), so about 65-70% of worldwide Christendom altogether. If they wanted to do this today, they'd have to use a copy of the Bible to catch the Baptists and Pentecostals.

Jamie म्हणाले...

I'm Episcopalian and I love Orthodox iconography - there is a (somewhat obscure) tradition of praying "with" (not "to") icons, as "family portraits" that remind us of those who came before us in the Christian faith.

And I was raised Catholic, and loved the imagery of the stations of the Cross and the crucifix, but even as a child I never believed that God was any more present in those images than in any other part of creation. The commenter's point above is well taken - the thing about not abusing an image of Christ is that when you know that the abuse of the image is *intended* to be a proxy for disavowal of Christ, you're not supposed to do it.

Don't know if my own faith would be that strong if my life were on the line. My faith in God's forgiveness, yes - I do believe I would be forgiven for doing it, even while knowing what I did.

The Crack Emcee म्हणाले...

What people do aound religion is so tiring.

Jeff म्हणाले...

Warning 35 cities is the same as warning none of them. You might as well tell them to evacuate the entire country. But if the Americans had warned only a few cities, that could have led to the Japanese concentrating their air defenses on those cities and mission failure. So it's understandable why 35 cities were warned.

Howard म्हणाले...

It's really quite pathetic to read adults supposedly educated adults it live in the modern world would believe in such superstitious talisman that could possibly influence your judgement by God that you worship in the sky on how you will be treated in the afterlife. You really are the worst of the Trump supporters the Christians hypocritical support the devil because he panders to your weakness

Howard म्हणाले...

h: the issue is not the guilt from those crimes of slavery and genocide that stole the fruits of labor from one while stealing a country from the other.

The issue is the benefits that us white people have reaped from the crimes of our ancestors. We are successful on the backs of two of the greatest crimes in humanity. I know I know the commies and the Nazis were worse, but no one is really benefiting from their crime. the Germans are still well behind where there should be if Hitler never happened and Russia you got to be kidding me that place is pathetic.

Nichevo म्हणाले...

Howie, it's one thing to sink from prison hooch to paint thinner, but why did you start drinking the paint? Apparently the kind with lead?

mockturtle म्हणाले...

If they wanted to do this today, they'd have to use a copy of the Bible to catch the Baptists and Pentecostals.

No, that wouldn't work, either. The Bible, in its bound and printed form, conveys God's Word but isn't a sacred object. It's not, you know, the Qur'an...

अनामित म्हणाले...

Ken B: The best performances of Bach cantatas you can find are the ones from Suzuki and his group in Japan.

Thanks for the rec, Ken. Will look up and give a listen.

Dude1394 म्हणाले...

The Japanese literally got what they asked for with the bombing of Hiroshima/Nagasaki. They started and perfected the no-quarter war. Many soldiers learned the hard way that it was too dangerous to capture Japanese prisoners as they would suicide themselves and you.
They fully expected either to win or everyone, EVERYONE to die trying. And that is literally die, not try hard.

अनामित म्हणाले...

mikee: It wasn't that it was an sacred idol one shouldn't step on to avoid death. It was that doing so was a lying refutation of one's true faith, and that was problematical. One shouldn't lie about one's Catholic faith, even to save one's life, or so go the teachings of the Church.

Anybody with a modicum of curiosity about other people's beliefs would know that, but "Catholics are idol-worshippers" is a lot more fun to think.

To be fair, the naïve and unsophisticated among believers do appear to attribute supernatural properties to images, statues, relics, words, etc. (Though I don't know enough about those Japanese martyrs to have any opinion whatsoever on what they were thinking.) But that tendency is hardly limited to Catholics or Orthodox Christians. Or believers, for that matter.

Diamondhead म्हणाले...

No, that wouldn't work, either. The Bible, in its bound and printed form, conveys God's Word but isn't a sacred object. It's not, you know, the Qur'an...

Your second and third sentences are correct as a matter of doctrine. In practice, though, I think it would generally work. Maybe it doesn't even matter what the object is. If you take an action knowing it will be understood as you having renounced your faith in order to save your life, do the particulars matter so much?

mockturtle म्हणाले...

Diamondhead, denying one's faith is more serious than stomping on a copy of the Bible, an act with little or no real significance.

mockturtle म्हणाले...

Remember that one of the Columbine victims was asked by one of the shooters if she was a Christian. She said yes and he shot her. "But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven."

mockturtle म्हणाले...

PS: I pray that I would stand as strong as she.

Kirk Parker म्हणाले...

h @ 10:34 PM,

The answer is mostly 'oikophobia'.

Diamondhead म्हणाले...

mockturtle, I agree there is no significance in stepping on a Bible, or a carved image of Christ. My question is whether taking an action that you know will be perceived as you denying Christ is the same as making a statement. If one of the shooters had said "okay, you say you're a Christian. But if you spit on this cross, I'll let you go because I'll know you're not really what you say." I'm guessing she would have been unwilling to satisfy that demand, not because there's any inherent power in the object, but because of what it would have communicated.

अनामित म्हणाले...

mock: ...denying one's faith is more serious than stomping on a copy of the Bible, an act with little or no real significance.

I don't think Diamondhead (or anybody else) is arguing otherwise. To the contrary.

The Japanese authorities were asking Christians to diss the image precisely as an act of denying one's faith. It's not as if the point were "hey, we just want you to step on this image, but no worries, we're cool with you otherwise carrying on with your weirdo religion".

This would be somewhat different from, say, Roman authorities, who in some times and places might just ask Christians to sacrifice to the state gods as an act of civic fidelity, while being indifferent to personal beliefs or practices. But the martyrs couldn't do that, either, and not because they thought there was some mysterious bad juju inhering in the words or acts - in themselves - of the Roman rituals that would imperil one's immortal soul. It's that, to them, these would constitute cowardly public denial - renunciation could not be separated from its material manifestation, whatever the Roman authorities thought about the relation between act and belief.

It's not as if anybody is ever going to ask you to piss on your bible for no reason. Of course you wouldn't much care if they grabbed your bible and did that, beyond the normal disgust that one would feel at that kind of behavior. But the Nagasaki martyrs didn't choose torture and death because some non-believer was stepping on the images. It becomes a different thing when they say "I'm going to kill you if you don't piss on this bible to prove that you have denounced your faith."

Now, not being up on the niceties of everybody's beliefs, it may be that you and other various types of Christians might not have a problem with doing that to save your skin, because, as you say, it's just a book, God knows your heart, and who gives a damn if some bullying schmuck thinks he's made you renounce your faith by playing along with *his* dumbass notions of what Christians believe about bibles? But I'm aware that other Christians would disagree, and not at all because they share the belief of the dumbass that the material object is of any significance in itself.

mockturtle म्हणाले...

Of course not, Angle-Dyne. If the act of stomping on a Bible is perceived as denying Christ then I certainly would not. Would I stomp on an image of the Virgin Mary? Yes. And with impunity.

Skippy Tisdale म्हणाले...

"You really are the worst of the Trump supporters the Christians hypocritical support the devil because he panders to your weakness"

And you are still a little cunt.