"... on possible Trump 2020 challenger Joe Biden and his son Hunter’s business dealings in that country. Politics or law could have been part of Giuliani’s motive, and neither would be illegal. But there is a missing part of the story that the American public needs in order to assess what really happened: Giuliani’s contact with Zelensky adviser and attorney Andrei Yermak this summer was encouraged and facilitated by the U.S. State Department. Giuliani didn’t initiate it.... So, rather than just a political opposition research operation, Giuliani’s contacts were part of a diplomatic effort by the State Department to grow trust with the new Ukrainian president, Zelensky, a former television comic making his first foray into politics and diplomacy. Why would Ukraine want to talk to Giuliani, and why would the State Department be involved in facilitating it? According to interviews with more than a dozen Ukrainian and U.S. officials, Ukraine’s government under recently departed President Petro Poroshenko and, now, Zelensky has been trying since summer 2018 to hand over evidence about the conduct of Americans they believe might be involved in violations of U.S. law during the Obama years....."
Write John Solomon in "Missing piece to the Ukraine puzzle: State Department's overture to Rudy Giuliani" (at The Hill). I'm just seeing this now, after writing 2 posts quoting an article Solomon wrote last April (and prompted by the commenter minnesotafarmguy).
I've only quoted a part of "Missing piece..." — please read the whole thing. This story is complicated!
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Joe Biden (as Vice President) told the President of Ukraine they wouldn't get aid money unless the fired a prosecutor who was looking into his son. The Prosecutor got fired, they got the aid money and Bidens son was making millions off of the Ukraine. But Trump is under fire? We live in upside down world.
Petro offers you his protection.
Ukrainian politics is complicated, our politics are complicated. Ukrainian government is corrupt, our government is corrupt. I look forward to the expert comment of the Russian troll farm on this one.
"Why would Ukraine want to talk to Giuliani, and why would the State Department be involved in facilitating it?"
Because State, knowing how the media would spin it, was eager to foster the appearance of impropriety.
"Giuliani’s contact with Zelensky adviser and attorney Andrei Yermak this summer was encouraged and facilitated by the U.S. State Department. "
This looks like a repeat of the corrupt Obama team using Misfud to entrap Papadopalous.
No that was about a fake approach, mind you thete are swamp rats in kiev like gerashenko who 'spoke' to the basilisk.
It’s not complicated.
The Deep State wants Trump gone. Everything unfortunately is thru that lens.
"The coverage suggests ..."
I'd love to have been a "fly on the wall (or phone)" at these meetings of Russian/Ukrainian/American white collar criminals, but the MSM can't honestly or accurately describe something as dick-simple as a teenager standing still while being harassed by a senile Indian, so how can anyone trust or believe what they say about complicated international conspiracies and collusion? ... which, come to think of it, they had a chance on that subject and they already got it completely wrong for two years.
Yes because they print the legend, like they said in liberty valance.
Politics or law could have been part of Giuliani’s motive, and neither would be illegal.
But procurement of the Clinton/DNC paid-for dossier wasn’t illegal?
Another Democrat Own Goal. And Biden, like Blutto, is just the guy to do it.
There is nothing complex about the story. Biden used his position to threaten Ukraine to abort a criminal investigation into his son by withholding US funding. Pretty straightforward.
Guiliani was representing his client well to expose the Russia hoax by showing the Obama administration pressured Ukraine government to cover up crimes for Democratic politicians, or alternatively generate or falsify crimes by Republicans.
None of this is complicated
2 separate times the Ukrainian government tried to hand over evidence of DNC attempts to manipulate the 2016 election. Once to the US Ambassador and once to a former US Attorney who they thought had contacts to the US Attorney in NYC.
NOTHING HAPPENED EITHER TIME!
WTH is hard to understand about that?
Then, these folks thought because they saw him all over the news as Trump’s attorney, to reach out to Giuliani through the State Dept.
They thought this would help with relations with the US and the new Ukrainian President.
WTH is hard to understand about that?
So...to summarize the Obama administration wanted NOTHING to do with this information and they ignored all the overtures from the Ukraine.
Trump administration thought send Giuliani to see what they got and learn the story.
WTH is hard to understand about that?
The Ukraine government wants military aid from the US to help protect them from Vlad!
They thought these overtures to Trump administration might help that happen.
WTHis hard to understand about that?
I"m pretty sure that even if there's anything to that defense, the Trumpsters will insist that there's nothing wrong with Barr's silencing of the OIG or any other whistleblowers for that matter.
Because it was the corrupt clique they put in power, which included swoboda the throwback to world war 2 era ukrainian nationalists.
Who worship bandera who is comsidered anathema to many russians and who was a us asset for a time
Monkey see, Monkey Do. Every party has its "oppo research team" digging up dirt on the other side. Now the Dems, and the Clinton 2016 campaign morphed beyond that--they didn't just dig it up, they created it.
This is the biggest nothingburger in the world.
ARM flails.
Must be a Beto or Warren fan.
Look, story here is actually very simple- the Ukranian government is trying to curry favor from whoever is the president. This explains everything in Althouse's posts this morning- in 2015-2016, they were trying to curry favor with the soon to be president elect, Hillary! Clinton, but when Clinton lost against all expectations, the Ukranian government turned on a dime and tried to curry favor with the Trump Administration. This is why they have been trying to give over the details of the previous efforts to torpedo the Trump Campaign as it relates to Biden and Obama.
One reason to believe Solomon's story in The Hill is this- this isn't new news concocted to defend Trump over the Zelenskiy conversation- this has been reported for months now. Giuliani has not been shy about telling people about the Ukranian government trying to make amends- he has been telling this story since the end of last year, but the mainstream media ignored it completely because it damages Biden. I strongly suspect that the main motivation for this "Whistleblower" campaign is to get rid of Biden- it causing discomfort for Trump is just dessert in their view.
I am guessing we will get the transcript of the conversation when Trump decides the media have gone out on the limb far enough to saw it off. The WaPo story from late yesterday afternoon was that paper preparing their retreat- they were warned by the leaker that the previous descriptions about the conversation might not have been entirely accurate.
HoaxPPT: "I"m pretty sure that even if there's anything to that defense, the Trumpsters will insist that there's nothing wrong with Barr's silencing of the OIG or any other whistleblowers for that matter"
Barr has silenced no one.
The "whistleblower" is not a whistlebliwer at all. Just another corrupt deep stater looking to protect a dem with fake leaks.
HoaxPPT's comment is particularly ironic given obamas DOJ (Yates specifically) literally directed the OIG to NOT investigate key depts within the DOJ.
Specifically, the DOJ National Security Division which was the DOJ heart of the Russian collusion/Trump frame up operation working directly with the FBI snall group and the Brennan Crossfire Hurrucane crew.
Too funny.
Next up for HoaxPPT: Biden had to act in a corrupt manner with the Ukrainians because homes in the US Midwest are just too large in terms of average square footage!
Why not? Its the reason HoaxPPT gave for mountains of human waste on San Fran sidewalks.
Yancey: "The WaPo story from late yesterday afternoon was that paper preparing their retreat- they were warned by the leaker that the previous descriptions about the conversation might not have been entirely accurate."
Shhhhh!
HoaxPPT has gone Full Moron on this latest easily exposed lefty hoax and its fun to watch.
I'm reading Ball of Collusion by Andrew McCarthy, about the Trump/Russia collusion mess. It's slow going. One reason is that McCarthy dives early on into a complicated discussion of the players in Russia and Ukraine in modern times, and the lobbying and diplomacy matrix that has always tied Americans of all both parties into the grid. He views this background as vital knowledge and context in understanding how Trump and associates got pulled into the Mueller investigation. And now here are a couple dozen new layers and links; it's endless.
Trump can fire the IG, spy on reporters talking to the "whistleblower" (scare quotes because I no longer believe anything that comes out of the IC in any form for any reason), spy on members of Congress who are investigating it, etc. etc., and I don't want to hear one goddamned word about it. We'll call it "The Obama Rule."
Looks to me like Biden, Clinton, the Democrat Party, and the major news media are attempting to cover up bad behavior and possible corruption on the part of the Obama Administration and Hillary Clinton Presidential Campaign of 2016. The scheme is to accuse Trump of bad behavior and corruption with Ukraine based on his urging of Ukraine to investigate and the contact his lawyer, Giuliani, had with Ukraine's government in the hopes that Trump and Justice will back off the investigation. Silly Democrats, they haven't learned that Trump does not back down, especially when, as in this case, he's done nothing wrong.
If I'm correct the Democrats and Media are dumber than even I thought possible.
So this "bombshell" lasted an entire day longer than any of the Kavanaugh fake news because they kept all the details secret. Some bombshell. It's almost as bad as the golf course fake news.
I agree that "Ball of Collusion is slow going. I'm looking at what has gone on so far and waiting to see if there are any consequences for the criminal behavior we all, with the exception of Ritmo and ARM of course, have witnessed the past three years.
therein lies the rub, dulles and co, were removed because of the bay of pigs, as my friend clarice noted, mueller is connected to two of those underlings by marriage and family lineage, felt and miller, nearly fell on their sword over cointelpro, helms over chile, the last two were probably the right thing to do, the first was conducted with great some might say criminal incompetence,
Just linking this for the Calvinball comic.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2012/06/18/calvinball-in-cairo/
I defer to no one in my belief that members of the Obama administration attempted to use the power of the executive branch to influence the 2016 election in favor of Clinton. And I am firm in my belief that those attempts were wrong (immoral and probably illegal, or should be, and "impeachable" offenses). But that fact, and the related fact that Obama supporters were and are completely unwilling to admit and condemn those actions, do not convince me that therefore it is okay for Trump to do the same thing. I accept the argument that a President in office has powers that can influence voters (wag the dog as a silly example, but many other ways). So the issue is always when does it go over the line. Trump "ordered" by executive action emergency payments to farmers to counteract the impact of the trade war. To me that is not admirable, and perhaps a reason to vote against Trump, but it is not criminal or impeachable, so in that sense it falls on the "okay" side of the line. The use of FBI and Intelligence to influence the election falls (in my opinion) absolutely on the "not okay" side of the line. This Ukrainian effort by Trump is in a gray area (in my mind). I'd be happy to hear arguments for why I should treat it as being on the "okay" or "not okay sides". Just don't tell me "Obama did it so shut up".
This Ukrainian effort by Trump is in a gray area (in my mind). I'd be happy to hear arguments for why I should treat it as being on the "okay" or "not okay sides". Just don't tell me "Obama did it so shut up".
Argument not possible unless we know exactly what we are arguing about. Facts, not rumors.
Joe Biden (as Vice President) told the President of Ukraine they wouldn't get aid money unless the fired a prosecutor who was looking into his son.
Yes he did, and this is called extortion. Extortion with taxpayer money. And he was so stupid, he actually bragged about it later. In public. How is he not under indictment?
The Prosecutor got fired, they got the aid money and Bidens son was making millions off of the Ukraine. But Trump is under fire? We live in upside down world.
Yes, the media is trying to say that Trump is somehow the malefactor because he calls out the obvious: that Joe Biden was selling his influence to benefit his coke-head, loser son.
How are these people not under indictment?
Molly,
It's ok to shut up.
Trump didn't do what you seem to imagine he did.
You've been misled by a Democratic press effort.
The whistleblower is now backing away from stories that he overheard the conversation with Trump.
The whistleblower who filed a complaint with the intelligence community inspector general did not have direct knowledge of the communications between President Trump and the foreign leader in question.
The conversation was reportedly a July 25 phone call between Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. It is alleged that Trump urged Zelensky multiple times to work with his personal attorney Rudy Giuliani to investigate Joe Biden’s son Hunter Biden and his ties to an energy company owned by a Ukrainian oligarch. Giuliani has previously urged a top official in Ukraine to look into the ties.
An official who has been briefed on the matter, however, told CNN that the whistleblower “didn’t have direct knowledge of the communications.” The official said that the concerns and subsequent complaint came in part from the whistleblower “learning information that was not obtained during the course of their work.”
More bullshit fake news.
"The whistleblower is now backing away from stories that he overheard the conversation with Trump."
Yet more confirmation to discount anything coming out of the IC. They're spies, I get it, they should be lying. Even to us. But not about just anything. If they want us to trust them, not betraying that trust in the worst possible way (yes, worse than the likes of Aldrich Ames, et al.) is an absolute prerequisite.
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