No one has ever before said "degringolade," let alone used "degringolade" in a sentence with "diminuendo." No. Wait. "Degringolade" is a real word, not a sudden coinage based on "gringo."
Being a massive fan of his book "The Mosquito Coast," I trust Theroux with language.
I see that "degringolade" comes from the French French, "dégringoler," which means "to descend rapidly." It has nothing to do with the word "gringo." Theroux came up with that juxtaposition, quite nicely. A "degringolade" is a rapid descent. George Bernard Shaw used it in 1895 in The Saturday Review: "Miss Lottie Collins..will soon find her popularity degringolading from the summit on which the Tarara craze exalted it."
Anyway... I like Theroux, though I haven't read his travel books (but there is plenty of travel in the novel "The Mosquito Coast").
The book excerpt is too long to sample adequately, so I'll just give you one little thing that made me laugh. He's in a restaurant and addresses the owner's granddaughter:
“How old are you?” I asked, to change the subject.
“Twelve.”
Provoked by my question, the old woman’s daughter — the girl’s mother — approached me and sized me up. “How old are you, señor?” “Adivina.” Take a guess.
She studied me, she did not speak, she cocked her head, pursed her lips, and pressed a finger to her cheek, in actressy reflection, liking the suspense she was creating.
“Seventy-six,” she said. Tilting her head back, looking haughty, she was triumphant.
“But I’m a cabrón,” I said, thumping my chest.
They shrieked, because the word had a belittling meaning here, not “dude,” as I had meant, but “dickhead.”
पोस्ट्स
८४ टिप्पण्या:
The Mexican (2001) Brad Pitt and Julia Roberts (though they're not together much) has the finest trip into Mexico and back and film episode of shy bladder.
You don't look that "massive" in your pictures.
And "cabron" means goat, or "old goat."
An AARP card? Can't he just flash his freak flag pony tail or I'm With Her Hillary 2016 t-shirt?
Theroux came up with that juxtaposition, quite nicely.
I'm not convinced. Theroux isn't invincible.
I'm an old man.
Being an old man is not a matter of opinion. It's reality.
A sensible society reveres its old men.
I've only visited Mexico a few times. Mexico strikes me as a society that reveres its old men.
Who would have thought The Age of Trump would make GBS relevant again.
I loved The Old Patagonia Express. I've read a couple other of his travel books Never his fiction but I've always enjoyed his writing, he's very funny and insightful with a definite thread of bitterness
White people need the salt in Gringolade sports drink to survive in the Mexican dessert. They put jalapenas in the ICE cream down there.
Comic language errors are one of the joys of foreign travel. A personal highlight from the summer of '18 was making an Italian waitress burst into laughter by requesting what she heard as "pene" instead of "pane" with my meal.
pinche cabrón
"In the casual opinion of most Americans, I am an old man, and therefore of little account...."
Gomer Pyle voice: "Projection, projection, projection."
Anything that comes with "AARP" on it gets ripped up and thrown in with recycling. Been doing that for decades.
flashing his AARP card
That implies an upcoming 15% discount - don't keep me in suspense, I want to read about it!
I made up some pretty good laminated fake IDs for my Mexican buddy to "flash" in Mexico - my favorite was the "U.N. HUMAN RIGHTS INSPECTOR".
cabrón
"(informal, Mexico, Costa Rica) mate, dude (term of endearment between friends)
¿Qué onda, cabrón? — What's up, dude?
Buenos días, cabrón! — Good morning, mate!"
So the story, if true, was actually that they laughed at him for assuming they were his friends.
'Degringoland'
So stealing this. My gf is Brazilian and the word 'gringo' is actually used quite frequently outside of Mexico, or even the Spanish language. It's used in Colombia and Venezuela as well.
I will run this by her, but henceforth I shall bifurcate the differences between 'Gringolands' and 'Degringolands' during our travels.
Chile? Gringoland.
Brazil? A 'Degringoland'
Too writerly. I dislike this kind of writing because every word seems self-conscious, or clever.
I like using a dictionary but maybe not once every sentence.
Speaking of Brad Pitt, I saw "Ad Astra" yesterday. Not that good. $87m to make and first weekend gross was only $7m. And, frankly, not anywhere as good as "Frankenstein, Part II" as Bay Area Guy will attest to.
Read his travel books. My favorite is The Pillars of Hercules.
I read Patagonia Express about forty years ago and enjoyed it very much. Also liked another railroad travel book, Iron Rooster I think is the name of it, where he travels through China. Unfortunately, there are no more Mexican (or Guatemalan) passenger trains, but I have visited a couple of very good railroad museums in Aguascalientes and Guatemala City.
Has anyone ever used "massive fan" and "I trust Theroux" in the same sentence?
It can't be a very good book if even Ann Althouse (OED Queen) doesn't know a word in it and has to look it up. Unheard of!
"Cabrón" is worse than "dickhead". Don't call another man that.
Especially not "pinche cabron(a)".
and film episode of shy bladder.
I didn't see the undoubtedly imbecilic movie, RH, but it can't possibly be a patch on The Good, The Bad and The Ugly, when Tuco uses this excuse to divert the guard on the train. No chance.
You couldnt pay me 3nough to go from chiapas the poorest province to reynoso, you think i have a death wish.
"No one has ever before said "degringolade," let alone used "degringolade" in a sentence with "diminuendo." No. Wait. "Degringolade" is a real word, not a sudden coinage based on "gringo." Being a massive fan of his book "The Mosquito Coast," I trust Theroux with language."
Yeah, that Shakespeare guy woulda been a pretty good writer if only he hadn't made up so many words.
The "casual opinion of most Americans" would probably be, "Paul Theroux? That pond guy? I thought he died a long time ago."
Blogger 0_0 said...
"Cabrón" is worse than "dickhead". Don't call another man that.
Especially not "pinche cabron(a)".
It largely depends on the speaker's nation of origin. 'Pendejo' is a fighting word with Mexican immigrants, but I've been told that Chileans use it as a term of affection with their small children. 'Vato' just means 'dude' to Mexican immigrants, but I've been threatened with violence by Central Americans for using that term - because the Mexicans call each other 'Vato'.
Yes you call a man that, he'll likely shoot you.
Blogger Darrell said...Anything that comes with "AARP" on it gets ripped up and thrown in with recycling. Been doing that for decades.
Same here. I also detest that retirement age people are assumed to need a discount when this group ranges from dirt poor to ultra rich. I also disagree with AARP on almost every issue.
In some contexts, "carbron" means cuckold. Not at all flattering for most men.
"Pinche" means cheap.
"Cabrón" is worse than "dickhead". Don't call another man that.
Gringo is also derogatory, perhaps. It's certainly not respectful, which makes me wonder if Pancho Villa really expected laudatory results from this recruiting poster.
Speaking of Brad Pitt, I saw "Ad Astra" yesterday.
I know nothing about the movie, so I looked it up. When I read, "Astronaut Roy McBride undertakes a mission across an unforgiving solar system to uncover the truth about his missing father", my first assumption was that Pitt was the missing father. Apparently not. Isn't he a bit old to be an astronaut?
"...so I'll just give you one little thing that made me laugh."
New Yorker-esque with a naughty word is what I got out of it.
I am Laslo.
I dated a Venezuelan girl who said I was, "Eat up with gringo-itus" because I stopped at stop signs when nobody was coming from the other direction.
If life gives you gringos, make gringolade.
Cabrón, pinche joto, maricón, all words from my misspent youth growing up on the border. To us cabrón was more like asshole. Maricón was the word that could get you into a fight, can't be challenging someone's manhood.
Theroux's great. Live with it. I don't always enjoy the fiction, but he's one of the best travel writers around, up there with Raban, Thubron, and the late Fermor.
Narr
He's a self-described Blue-Dog voter
One of the noticeable things about being old: You are ignored by younger people. Sometimes that's an annoyance, but oftentimes I do like anonymity.
Don't throw it away, Darrell. Stuff it all back in the prepaid reply envelope and send it back.
That costs them 50-60 cents
Nothing with your name on it though. That just validates their mailing list as being valid which is probably worth more than 50-60 cents.
John Henry
"Degringolade" is the title of chapter 7 in Paul Johnson's "Modern Times". The chapter concerns the stock market crash of 1929 and the descent into global instability and war in the 1930s. It's a good word. I used it in a monograph I wrote about the decline and ball of the Mitanni Empire in the Late Bronze Age.
Heh. One has to be careful with Spanish slang from country to country, or even region to region. I spent two years as a missionary in Central America (1972-74), and we were given a mimeographed handout about what words to avoid in which countries. For example, the word "bicho" was commonly used in one of our (four) countries as "bug" ("illness"), as in, "Yo tengo un bicho." ("I have a bug", i.e., I'm sick.) However, in one of the other countries, it was crude slang for female genitalia, so saying "Yo tengo un bicho" would both amaze and offend at the same time.
Thereoux is a major league douchebag and unpleasant asshole by all accounts.
I've tried a couple of his novels and could not get through them.
I do love his travel books though
John Henry
My French teacher told us a story about when he was in France and he was about to go on a little road trip and his friends asked him if he had enough money, he thought he said “J’en ai beaucoup” meaning, I have enough, but instead he said “J'en ai beau cul” which sounds almost identical to a newbie francophone, but means, “I have a nice ass."
Thereoux is a major league douchebag and unpleasant asshole by all accounts.
Totally agree. In his travel books he comes across as an unpleasant grouch. His novels are just awful, peopled with highly unpleasant and unsympathetic characters.
I saw "Ad Astra" over the weekend and liked it a lot. About one-third of the way through I realized it was a kind-of sort-of remake of Apocalypse Now and that made me like it even more. It has the same basic structure as Apocalypse Now and several of the incidents involving the character portrayed by Brad Pitt very closely resemble the incidents involving Capt. Willard. Also Brad Pitt's narration closely resembles Martin Sheen's narration, in tone and style and content. As I said, it's a very good movie. It has the guts to come to certain conclusions about the Cosmos you will not see in any other science fiction movie.
Cabron has very different connotations depending on location. Mexico, it’s bad. Puerto Rico, it’s more like dude.
I was doing a workshop in Mexico a few years ago, in spanish. At one point I said
"una de Las cosas que me enfogona un Menudo es..."
Which means "one of the things that annoys me a little is..."
Everyone looked puzzled and someone spoke up to ask what I am doing in an oven with Ricky Martin?
Fogon in Spanish means oven. Enfogona do means in an oven. In Puerto Rico but not in Mexico it also means annoyed.
Menudo, in pr, means a little bit. And of course Ricky Martin's singing group.
John Henry
J'en ai beau cul
So...did he have a beautiful ass?
Hillary as DeGringoLady
sometimes the denouement of degringolade is a diminuendo,
and not "full of sound and fury," Signifying nothing
Tell us more about the decline and ball of the Mitanni, Roughcoat!
Narr
I use whatever AARP or other old-fart discount I can get, proudly
Dont you the swamp synonym in cuba, it means birdello.
The French tongue is chock full of interesting, musical —ade words, a few of which have nested comfortably in English. Two of my favorites are gasconade and esplanade. Gasconade refers to the young blades of Gascony, who are, or were, noted for their extravagant, boastful speech and their quickness to take a strong dislike to anyone who doubts them. Most of the famous swashbucklers were Gascons — Dumas' D'Artangan (Charles Ogier de Batz de Castelmore, Sieur d’Artagnan, to be precise) and Rostand's Cyrano and his rival, Christian de Neuvillette — and spoke their gasconades from time to time. Our President is noted for his gasconades, which may not be extravagant enough since The New York Times proclaimed him invincible. Joe Biden's campaign (ongoing since 1988) is one interminable gasconade. Unfortunately, Biden has appropriated much of it from others without attribution. One fears the part about bending the whole government of Ukraine to his mastery will undo him permanently.
Esplanade in American English is almost meaningless except that as part of a real estate description indicates priceyness, probably unjustified. People who are wont to attach esplanade to a property's monicker might do well to remember that in France the word refers to an engineered killing field in front of a fortification.
"Gringo" is not derogatory. It just means "white, non-hispanic". You could say something disrespectful to a gringo, while calling him a gringo or not, but that doesn't make "gringo" a disrespectful word. There's nothing disrespectful in that Villa recruiting poster.
In pr carbon can be used between close friends. Carefully.
In general it is a pretty high grade insult.
John Henry
he said “J'en ai beau cul” which sounds almost identical to a newbie francophone, but means, “I have a nice ass."
In Gay Paree, that's all he needs.
Fernandistein said...
'cabrón
"(informal, Mexico, Costa Rica) mate, dude (term of endearment between friends)
¿Qué onda, cabrón? — What's up, dude?
Buenos días, cabrón! — Good morning, mate!"
So the story, if true, was actually that they laughed at him for assuming they were his friends.'
Words can have two senses (e.g., bitch). "Cabrón" is regarded as a bad word in South Texas. When young, I was searching for the word "goat" (cabra) but came out with "cabrón" instead. The girl to whom I was speaking, who was from southern Mexico, snickered and said I'd used a bad word.
Maybe my experience is colored by serving in the Marine Corps, but men speaking among friends often use vulgarities.
@Roughcoat - the pre-mission briefing in Ad Astra was so Apocalypse Now, I was waiting for them to say “his methods became.... unsound”
Degringolade has a useful meaning but lacks charm and euphony. Callipygian is a charming, euphonious word.
Enfogona do means in an oven. In Puerto Rico but not in Mexico it also means annoyed.
so, it got you pretty steamed?
Slang is often local. Derogatory slang especially.
Skylark I call your attention to callipygian
Ad Astra sucked. I wished the movie had ended with Pitt returning to Earth and being greeted by a resurrected Charlton Heston yelling, "Que paso cabrón?"
John Henry: yeah, puerto rican Spanish is totally different than continental spanish.
And I doubt the Mexicans were thinking of Ricky Martin's group. They were thinking of the delicious beef tripe and pozole soup.
As others have commented, I think that some terms are common and appropriate among guys who know each other--such as "cabron"--but completely inappropriate between a man and a woman he doesn't know, especially in a small town. But it's all fine because as a degringolading gringo, he gets a free pass.
Put it in an American context: think about all the inappropriate things the Sasha Baron Cohen character gets away with in his movies. It's usually because the people he's interviewing give him the benefit of the doubt as a foreigner who is unfamiliar with local customs.
Oso Negro @11:34 AM:
Yes. Exactly!
Maybe my experience is colored by serving in the Marine Corps, but men speaking among friends often use vulgarities.
I was with this guy when he was buying a kilo of cocaine from some guys he claimed were in the "Mexican Mafia" (MS13?), and he told me "Don't say that 'como tu mama' shit, these guys are serious!", so of course I said "Como tu mama" when I shook hands with the main guy; he laughed.
"Mexican Mafia" or Chihuahua Mafia, which in itself is funny.
Theroux overcompensates, proving his non-demented state by the use of obscure vocabulary words.
We get it, Paul. You're OK, just old.
He should check out Clint Eastwood, or Trump, to see how it's done.
Oso Negro:
"A personal highlight from the summer of '18 was making an Italian waitress burst into laughter by requesting what she heard as "pene" instead of "pane" with my meal."
I met a pretty Chilena at a friend's house and immediately asked her out, to visit the Butterfly Pavilion northwest of Denver. I had no idea how to say "pavilion" in Spanish so went with "museo." But I did know the word for "butterfly," so I asked if she would like to go to the Museo de los Maricones."
Theroux is not someone I would want to hang out with, but his book about his trip from Cairo to Cape Town overland (i.e. crossing Africa north-south by bus/truck) was absolutely fascinating.
All of the sudden I want to know what a Tarara craze is.
I like Theroux - but I've read his first six travel books and I don't know if I care to read another one. The problem with old men is they nothing new to say, but just keep repeating the same thing (cf: Woody Allen). Nothing wrong with that. Some people will eat the same thing 10 times in a row. Not me.
Give Milroy the Magician a look. I read it as a brilliant send-up of Lolita.
the Great Railroad Bazaar
Ride the Iron Rooster
Old Pantagonian Express
Kingdom by the Sea
The Happy Isles of Oceania
Dark Star Safari
I skipped Deep south. The idea of some Liberal expat like Theroux wanking on about blacks and white racism? Forgettaboutit
Mexico used to be dangerous and interesting. Now its dangerous and dull. That's what happens when you add 80 million people.
Yeah, guys, you've all got ole Theroux sorted out . . . Try reading Deep South without preconceptions, or with preconceptions, whatever.
How about his bro Alexander, also a novelist? I'm not so familiar with him--only Darconville's Cat and a few stray things.
One of the fascinating things about this place (Althouse, not the South though I can talk about that too) is that when an author gets mentioned about half the comments are entirely dismissive, and appear to me to be made in ignorance of the ouevre multiplied by ignorance of the writer's political stances (if any, and as if they really matter).
He voted for Somebody in 2004, rather than Someone! Thirty-five years ago he advocated a mistaken policy! His name sounds Frenchy! Nobody pay him any mind!
Narr
He's a philatelist, and his sister is a known thespian!
"Gringo" is not derogatory. It just means "white, non-hispanic".
Gringo also means a speaker of gibberish — like Char Char Binks.
@ Char Char Binks: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gringo
Send them a sharply worded note.
Althouse:
Anyway... I like Theroux, though I haven't read his travel books (but there is plenty of travel in the novel "The Mosquito Coast").
Having lived and worked in countries that Theroux wrote about in The Great Patagonian Express, I compared my reactions and Theroux's reactions to those countries. Theroux's travelogues reeked of contempt. Places that I grew to love, he scorned.
Some time later, at the bus stop going to campus in the US, I got into a conversation with a fellow student. She was from Panama. When I mentioned having read Theroux's Great Patagonian Express, she replied that Theroux had spoken at an assembly at the high school in the Canal Zone when she was a student there.
IIRC, Theroux had learned enough Chinese to converse with the passengers depicted in Riding the Iron Rooster. He merits respect for having made the effort to learn Chinese.
Narr writes: He's a philatelist, and his sister is a known thespian!
In addition to the 300 Spartans, there were 700 Thespians at Thermopylae — and that doesn't count their security staffers and personal assistants.
A philatelist, you say! For the sake of the children that shocking perversion needs to be stamped out!!
Narr
He's a philatelist, and his sister is a known thespian!
Such claims probably originated in a Time Magazine article allegedly quoting George Smathers in the 1950 Democrat primary for the US Senate nomination. The Most Famous Speech Never Given.
A cynical speech supposedly aimed at unsophisticated Florida voters was attributed to Smathers in the April 17, 1950 edition of Time magazine:
“Are you aware that Claude Pepper is known all over Washington as a shameless extrovert? Not only that, but this man is reliably reported to practice nepotism with his sister-in-law, he has a brother who is a known homo sapiens, and he has a sister who was once a thespian in wicked New York. Worst of all, it is an established fact that Mr. Pepper, before his marriage, habitually practiced celibacy.”
George Smathers offered $10,000 (worth about $100 K today) to anyone who could prove he said it. No one ever collected. BTW, George Smathers and JFK were buds when both were Senators.
Theroux to me is like Twain - - I like the travel books more than the novels. He's an observant and canny travel writer, but has a passive-aggressive streak and is something of a shit in his personal relationships. His early travel books read like escapes from the bonds of marriage and fatherhood, allowing him to act the part of an ex-pat sophisticate when he was in fact simply a travelling whoremonger.
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