You can see that he wanted to nail her on religion (his longtime bugaboo). "You were Oprah's spiritual leader," Maher says, and when she murmurs modestly — "Oprah was very generous to me" — he gives an "mmm-hmmm" in a tone that gets a laugh out of the audience. (Exactly why? I hear insinuation that the relationship was sexual, and that feels like retrograde homophobia. My Googling about Williamson's sexuality diverted me to "Marianne Williamson Implies Mike Pence Is Gay/'Well, there are all kinds of theories about that, aren’t there?'")
Maher presses her on the book — "A Course in Miracles" — that is the basis of her teachings. It sounds like Scientology, he says, and she enacts mild, lighthearted offense. He's concerned about anything based on one book, and she says the book collects spiritual wisdom from "all religions and no religions — like you." The audience slowly absorbs the "like you" and builds into a laugh. That breaks Maher's pace. He giggles and places his big hand on her shinily padded shoulder.
His next move is to confront her with the fact that the author of "A Course in Miracles" said she "took dictation from Jesus." This is just about the first thing you learn about the book if you read Wikipedia or the "Course in Miracles" website:
A Course in Miracles was “scribed” by Dr. Schucman between 1965 and 1972 through a process of inner dictation. She experienced the process as one of a distinct and clear dictation from an inner voice, which earlier had identified itself to her as Jesus.Williamson says, dismissively: "Well, there's nothing in the book" — she blows a puff of air — "Maybe she felt that." Maher pushes, she deflects. The book doesn't even try to get us to believe in God or Jesus: "The book tries to get us to believe in each other." Maher hits the table lightly with his fist, says, "We can't argue with that," and moves on.
He compliments her. In the debates, unlike everybody else, she "goes to the root of things." He mostly wants to talk about how people don't eat right and pharmaceutical companies are greedy and "all the toxicity and the chemicals," but she wants to talk about the need for love and spiritual wholeness. They chatter at cross purposes. Then she comes around to talking about "the corporations" and he cuts her off: "Don't become a politician now!"
ADDED: Let me front page something I just wrote in the comments:
By the way, the show continued with MW participating along with the panel of 3 other guests. During this part of the show, which I didn't find on video, but watched on TV last night, Maher showed his dislike for MW in ways [that] felt sexist to me....
He intended to make her look bad and his plan failed and he was irritated about that. MW is good at receiving and redirecting negative energy, and BM is under pressure to keep his show moving and interesting and funny and he couldn't make her happen the way he wanted.
पोस्ट्स
७९ टिप्पण्या:
A women's magazine talker confronts another women's magazine talker, finds agreement.
Generosity guru names the enemy. Both agree.
The lady grabbed Maher as well, to interrupt him.
There would be even more gesticulation if she were French or Italian.
She's pretty touchy feely, too, which you don't mention.
How did they come to the conclusion that we're all sick? We're in the midst of an obesity epidemic and that does cause a lot of chronic illness, but that's because of individual choice. In general, we're all healthier than ever in human history and we're all living longer.
On the touchy feely stuff... I'm a senior. When I talk with other seniors, many of them widowed, they speak eloquently about how painful it is to live without ever being touched by somebody. Many of them have lost hope that they will ever find somebody who wants to touch them again. This is especially true for women who chose to be childless. Several childless old women have expressed romantic interest in me, but I can see that what they really want is access to my grandkids who they hope they can hold and touch.
One of Maher's New Agey beliefs is a kind of naturophilia where GMOs and Big Pharma are the culprits of society's ills and the answer is to eat well and stop taking medicine. Maher is a long-time vaccine skeptic, as well. He's for "nature" and against "chemicals," even though nature kills us and chemicals save our lives.
A Course in Miracles is just another entry in the long catalog created by Phinea Quimby and his New Thought movement of the 19th century. Jane Roberts published the Seth Materials, supposed dictated by a spiritual being called Seth, in the early 1960s. Jerry and Esher Hicks were big on the New Age circuit peddling books they claimed were dictated by a being called Abraham, which they trademarked. Hilariously, on all of their publications, the word Abraham is followed by "TM." If that doesn't scream bullshit to someone, then nothing will. But all of this stuff did end up getting peddled by Oprah through The Secret and the "law of attraction."
Maher wanted to surround and control the message to the point she cannot speak at all. He must be afraid of her.
"You were Oprah's spiritual leader," Maher says, and when she murmurs modestly — "Oprah was very generous to me" — he gives an "mmm-hmmm" in a tone that gets a laugh out of the audience.
I don't know these people but my first reaction was Maher was being sceptical of the financial rewards of being a religious leaders. I'm not sure why Althouse went sexual.
Both Bill Maher and Marianne Williamson either own or are part of corporations.
Just not corporations that actually produce anything beneficial.
Thus, the hostility.
A profound yearning for religion has really taken hold of us.
But, somehow, the various dogmas of the past 50 years make it too unfashionable and too illiberal to accept that.
The Democrats are now running on being "more moral" than the Republicans, as if we should look to government for moral guidance.
I suggest plain, ordinary Christianity or Judaism, getting dressed on the Sabbath for services, reading the Ten Commandments and listening to the pastor's sermon with your neighbors. Singing hymns is great, too. I'm a church organist, so I'm prejudiced. Singing at services is the only place you're going to consistently fulfill that basic human emotional need to sing with a group of people.
Williamson reminds me of that caller in Talk Radio, Denise, who drones on the the background.
BARRY: Denise! Lemme get this straight. You’re afraid of the garbage disposal in your mother’s kitchen?
I’m scared Barry, you know we’ve got a garbage disposal and sometimes a teaspoon will fall in it. Ya, so like you know how you feel when you have to reach down into that garbage disposal and you have to feel around for that teaspoon. You don’t want to do it. Who know’s what’s down there ? Could be garbage , a piece of something, so much stuff goes down there........ or germs. You can’t germs but if they’re gonna be anywhere they’re gonna be down that disposal. They grow there, see ?They come back up the pipes. Salmonella, yeast ,cancer, even the common cold, who knows? But Barry, what if and I’m just saying “what if”, cause it would probably never happen, but what if the garbage disposal came on while your hand is down there ? I get so scared thinking about it that I usually leave the teaspoon down there. But then I’m afraid that my mother will get mad if she find it down there, so I turn the disposal, trying to make it go down the drain. But all it does is make a huge racket.And I stand in the middle of the kitchen and the spoon goes around and around and I get sort of paralyzed you know ? But Barry, I kind of like that noise because I know that teaspoon is getting annihilated and that’s good because I hate that teaspoon for scaring me like that...
Marianne Williamson appears to be one of those fakirs who historically have managed to bilk rich people like Oprah out of their money. Now she's trying to do to the country what she did to Oprah. Why not? It's certainly worth a shot. Look how rich people like the Bidens, the Daschles, the Clintons, Harry Reid, et al have gotten running their own scams.
I've played for many denominations... Catholic, Baptist (both the black and white varieties), Methodist, Lutheran and Episcopal.
I've sat thru sermons that I enjoyed, sermons that bored the hell out of me, and sermons that I deeply disagreed with.
Didn't hurt me a bit. It's OK to listen to what other people have to say. It's a good thing to let go of all your defenses against hearing something you don't want to hear, and to listen at length to what another person has to say.
I don't know these people but my first reaction was Maher was being sceptical of the financial rewards of being a religious leaders. I'm not sure why Althouse went sexual.
Ditto. Yeah Ann, that was a little weird.
"Oprah was very generous to me"
Oprah is like, the richest woman in america; right? Doesn't she give free cars to people
I'll BET that she WAS very generous
She seems mostly libertarian. Is she a female lib dem celeb version of Donald? Probably not, but is it a conspiracy to frame her type by running her up the flagpole?
Google likes her
"Don't become a politician now!"
He brought her in the show to expose her as a religious quack.
Not to let people see that she might have what it takes to be President.
In the spirit of universal brown nosing:
Marianne as Seen in GOOP{
https://goop.com/wellness/spirituality/how-love-can-solve-political-turbulence/
OK, Howard, I read the beginning of the article you referenced:
“The only real strength is love; love makes us vulnerable, but in a way that makes us strong.” Williamson isn’t talking about love love. She’s talking about love as a political force.
It may surprise you to know that Christ also preached the same ideas, although he talked about love love and love as political forces. I'm going to give Williamson the benefit of the doubt. She's probably also talking about both.
Denise needs tongs.
Fine ST. I didn't waste time reading goop beyond the headline. The peace love dope mantra Marianne deploys is pretty obvious.
I personally felt the full power of Marianne as she addressed me for ten minutes. She is hypnotic!
Williamson-Gabbard 2020.
I love how Maher makes racist and homophobic jokes by putting them in the mouths of his enemies: "I'm sure the Republicans are thinking, [insert offensive joke here]." He is a piece of work.
Williamson is not a Christian but steals from the Pentecostal tradition. She sells a facsimile to the gospel. The fact that some liberals lap it up shows the spiritual vacuum in the lives of religion-denying progressives. She’s “likeable enough,” as a certain politician once said and has a dash of witch, Cassandra, and Elmer Gantry in her schtick. I think she really believes her concoction but I find any religion that doesn’t address the mystery of Christ as unworthy of my interest. Christ is the hub and the rim of the universe. That’s my schtick and I’m schticking with it.
"Ditto. Yeah Ann, that was a little weird."
My opinion is based on the way Maher looks, acts, and sounds and the audience reaction. You have to study the video to see what I mean. I've watched it several times, rewinding. If you're just looking at the text, it probably does seem weird, especially if you think sexuality is weird.
By the way, the show continued with MW participating along with the panel of 3 other guests. During this part of the show, which I didn't find on video, but watched on TV last night, Maher showed his dislike for MW in ways felt sexist to me. Sorry I don't have that to show you.
Tongs come with their own set of terrors.
He intended to make her look bad and his plan failed and he was irritated about that. MW is good at receiving and redirecting negative energy, and BM is under pressure to keep his show moving and interesting and funny and he couldn't make her happen the way he wanted.
I like most of what she says in a nice general sort of way. Her attitude and outlook are positive. Her warnings about values and the ways in which we are manipulated to act against our own interests all make sense.
But can you imagine her as president? Negotiating with Kim or Xi or Putin (or congress)? That is a scary thought.
"I like most of what she says in a nice general sort of way..."
It's nice only because she doesn't have any power beyond the force of her words. It's a luxury to enjoy her, and I do. But with power... it wouldn't be nice. That doesn't mean it would be bad. Maybe she'd step up to the responsibilities, like Trump did.
She sells a facsimile to the gospel. The fact that some liberals lap it up shows the spiritual vacuum in the lives of religion-denying progressives.
I read this self help book once (really a serious of books), and in it the Main Character said:
"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves
One fraud to another, I dont find anything amusing about Williamson.
A profound yearning for religion has really taken hold of us.
Actually a profound disinterest for religion has really taken hold of us, if "us" means people in the US and/or the rest of western civ.
But if "us" lives in shithole countries, you might be right.
Actually a profound disinterest for religion has really taken hold of us
Nah, that interest has just been redirected to things like Climate Change and Vanity.
Humans have spiritual appetites. Like water on concrete finding every crack - they will find *something* to worship. So the best thing about organized religion is that it keeps them from making amateur mistakes.
Corporations make government whore politicians very rich.
It's very much like the difference between sitting down weekly with a psychiatrist VS using self-help books. Sure, someone very intelligent may be able to get away with self-medicating, but most people will go astray.
The best send up of Williamson was by Signourney Weaver playing Debra Morehouse in the gay film Jeffrey.
Humans have spiritual appetites
Exactly right. It's the whole "I'm not religious, I'm spiritual" shtick.
@J Farmer
He's for "nature" and against "chemicals," even though nature kills us and chemicals save our lives.
I am so saving that for some "nature" worshipers I know.
Maher is like any other hack on TV - looking to build up or destroy.
Marianne has unique skills. She should write books and sell them. oh wait.
Denise needs tongs.
And she should buy them through the Althouse Amazon portal.
Althouse: By the way, the show continued with MW participating along with the panel of 3 other guests. During this part of the show, which I didn't find on video, but watched on TV last night, Maher showed his dislike for MW in ways [that] felt sexist to me.
If she were black, would it have felt racist?
Your thought that she would not be nice if she had power was correct.
Bill Maher--really? I'd rather watch paint dry.
"You can see he wanted to nail her."
FTFY
Williamson could be the love czar for Trump.
They both know how to bullshit, I guess they're good at it.
The two were dancing, schtick to schtick.
Not a nice dance, in their case.
Exactly right. It's the whole "I'm not religious, I'm spiritual" shtick.
A lot of ex-Catholics like my wife, have negative attitudes about some organized religions. The high level of corruption in some churches is absurd. Hence, they turn to "spirituality" which apparently become an organized way to make money as well.
My wife has good common sense, despite being a registered Democrat. We get our spiritual needs met by going to Lutheran Church every now and then. IMHO, the self-serving dogma in the ELCA is at a minimum.
We were married in a traditional (Methodist) religious ceremony by a female minister who is one of her running buddies. It was a great experience. People need to figure out how to manage their religious experiences, not the other way around.
the self-serving dogma in the ELCA is at a minimum
Their financial company, Thrivent, sold my father (at the behest of the raised-Lutheran step-monster) an absolutely terrible life insurance policy. He forgot to cash it in when she died, so now it becomes a worse investment every year, in fact, negative in his mid-late 90's. At 101, it cancels, and the death benefit becomes $0.
Sexist. Jesus Christ.
The democrat party is full of LOVE and tolerance.
Here is an expression of that LOVE.
Sexist. Jesus Christ.
Yes, I know. Althouse can't help herself.
Her Marxist feminist obsession always kicks in.
Their financial company, Thrivent,
My financial advisor has been trying to get my wife to switch her investments over to him, but realized that she has been with Thrivent and believes they are the best in the business.
YMMV.
Exactly right. It's the whole "I'm not religious, I'm spiritual" shtick.
According to Pew, the total number of "not spiritual" people increased by 2% from 2012 to 2017; despite "not spiritual" slightly increasing, even Pew claims that "spirituality" is increasing, but what they mean is spirituality is replacing religion.
But I dunno what "spiritual" is supposed to mean other than having certain emotions and maybe believing in ghosts or some such.
Tongs in a man's hand is like castanets in a flamenco dancer's.
A Course in Miracles is a vile, poisonous book that consists of a daily lesson over a year that teaches you to regard all reality as misperceptions and meaningless; that it's necessary to regard your thoughts as meaningless and thus blocks to accessing the higher part of your conscious. This part is actually God. God's version of reality is the correct one and what we need to follow. So we must access God within us to live perfectly. The book teaches that we are born perfect with God in us but forgot as we grew up due to emotional hurts by others who have also forgotten this. If only we could recognize this we would have joy and peace and bring about an end to suffering caused by the human condition. God is viewed as a higher force that's perfect love and thus cannot judge, and because God doesn't judge, God cannot forgive either. Jesus is the wiser, big brother who realized this and showed us the way to this truth.
The book's style is heavily pretentious. It's a version of that old heresy Gnosticism repackaged with self-auditing and concepts of reality/suffering borrowed from Hinduism/Buddhism.
Believing ourselves to be gods is the oldest lie told to mankind by the devil. Believing all suffering and tragedy in life to be just our misperception and ultimately meaningless will not lead a person to a life of joy and peace.
Automatic writing or channeled "downloads" is viewed with suspicion by any Christian who still (should) believes in demonic forces. The question of whether the book is of demonic origin is proved IMO by the "we are gods" message and the trajectory of the author's subsequent life. In later years the author Helen Shucman, rejected the book (despite it's success as a New Age text in the 80s and 90s.) The author was reported to have spent the last 2 years of her life in a dark depression. Clearly, if there was real Truth in that book, the author would have found lasting peace and joy. New Age beliefs have their pedigree in the writings of Helena Blavatsky, the 19th century cultist and thus have satanic roots.
Helena Blavatsky was a 19th century occultist. Not cultist.
And there is this, all we need is love, yeah sure.
"Author Marianne Williamson says, “We are not held back by the love we didn't receive in the past, but by the love we're not extending in the present.
But Candidate Marianne Williamson says, "Our problem is not just that we need a plan to solve institutionalized hatred, collectivized hatred, and white nationalism."
Candidate Marianne Williamson is held back by the love she cannot extend in the present to Americans she chooses to perceive as a “collectivized hatred”.
Williamson’s ability to talk out of both sides of her mouth makes her a new favorite among Democrats; being two-faced is an art leftists long ago perfected."
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/08/marianne_williamson_says_one_thing_then_says_another.html#ixzz5vY8ZxM7G
Covington teen face gets wall to wall coverage from hack-D press. Brown man beaten and bruised by D's in NY for wearing a MAGA hat = *crickets* from hack-D press.
But I dunno what "spiritual" is supposed to mean other than having certain emotions and maybe believing in ghosts or some such.
Among the things it means:
I like to sleep in on Sunday.
I like to do whatever I like without that inconvenient morals thing.
I sure as hell don't want to tithe or otherwise demonstrate faith.
But I'm GOOooooood.
I like how both Maher and Marianne throw Jesus under the bus.
Her warnings about values and the ways in which we are manipulated to act against our own interests all make sense.
Nothing that Progs haven’t flung every presidential election for the past 20? Years.
It’s insulting. I’m voting against their interests, not my own.
Even Bill was sick of Granholm, the Democrat flunky on the show, yelling "kids in cages" as if that's a real argument.
"Maher showed his dislike for MW in ways [that] felt sexist to me"
I only watched the first minute, but picked up a different, umm, vibe. Sexism, maybe, but hardly "dislike."
"It's a version of that old heresy Gnosticism repackaged with self-auditing"
In other words, she's preaching the actual American Religion, per Harold Bloom.
From Alexander Solzhenitzn: Men Have Forgotten God.
Yes, Althouse, it's probably "sexist." Whatever that is.
LOL. All the "tongs" comments!
@Francisco D:
People need to figure out how to manage their religious experiences, not the other way around.
I was raised as what I call a "cultural Christian." My sisters and I were familiar with the basic biblical themes and stories and had some vague notion that our parents believed in god, yet my parents never attended church, never talked about prayer, and never invoked the Bible. When I was a teen, I went through a brief New Age phase (which seems to be rather common in the gay community, FWIW) before considering myself an atheist around age 18/19. I am a pretty hard materialist, but it is obvious that there is some "spiritual" component to human existence. That is, some sense of awe. It's a useful check on the ego to remind yourself how ultimately small you really are.
All the "tongs" comments!
I must have missed something, and who's Denise?
Many years ago I worked pumping gas at a full service gas station. We had a crusty old mechanic who used to refer to hands as "pecker tongs", as in, "I gotta wash my pecker tongs."
Mainstream preachers are all about "love," at least at weddings. It's THE drumbeaten buzzword, like politicians and "working families."
I watched about 80% of this and learned something (I knew nothing before) about Marianne Williamson.
She is the ultimate yada, yada, yada personality. She spiels out stuff endlessly and effortlessly like so many self-help gurus. Pop psychology, food faddism, corporate conspiracy theories, quasi-religious messages, and faux-historical analogies are put in a mental blender and come out as a verbal smoothie that means...nothing.
The Dems have waded deep into the show-biz swamp. Beto, Omar, AOC, Williamson, Gabbard, and Harris are all trading on their looks to a high degree--as did Palin. But nonsense is still nonsense, no matter how attractive the person spouting it.
I watched The Lives of Others again last night.
I'll never buy socialism as the answer to anything other than how to make people poor and miserable.
but it is obvious that there is some "spiritual" component to human existence. That is, some sense of awe. It's a useful check on the ego to remind yourself how ultimately small you really are.
Ys. That seems to be what it is all about for me.
She's to spirituality as McDonald's is to nutrition.....She's interesting and intriguing, but it's more about how she looks than the profundity of her thought. Try saying that stuff without high cheekbones, and people will tune out fast. I bet Kirkegaard would have sold more books if he had looked like her.....He was born a hunchback. He said that he was born a question mark. She's as glossy as a fashion magazine. She was born glossy.
She gives me the creeps.
I riffled through her book HEALING THE SOUL OF AMERICA. I have a fairly infallible built-in "liberal" BS detector (paraphrasing Hemingway) so I didn't need to read it word to word; but it seemed like what she wanted most to heal was that stubborn, dad-blasted streak of individualism and liberty-addiction. If we could just heal that and have one big herd of sheeple, things would be just so better!
"Oprah was very generous to me" -- I took that to mean that as a result of being on Oprah's show Marianne's financial situation was exponentially improved. Maher's retort was him saying, generous is an understatement. The same can be said for John Gray, Men are from Mars...; Gary Zukov, Seat of the Soul; Eckhart Tolle, The Power of Now; and even Deepak Chopra, who got his biggest exposure on Oprah's shows. Dr. Oz got his big start also from Oprah. Dr. Phil, etc. There are probably others, I just am not recalling.
IOW, it was not sexual.
She is rather attractive, especially for her age. If she wasn't so attractive would anyone even pay attention to her? The Democrats want to fix society and that is what makes them dangerous. Most Republicans just want a competent GM to run the government. Used to be that and doing so frugally.
Yada yada yada
How sad is it that a man worth $100 million can't deconstruct the absolutely useless and meaningless drivel this fakir spews.
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