The automated ball-strike system (ABS) is not what I think of when I hear "robot." The human umpire is still standing there behind the plate and announces the balls and strikes, but he's not making his own calls, he's hearing the call made by "a large Doppler radar screen high above home plate." It's nothing that looks like a human being. The word "robot" has grown over the years to include what we used to just call "automation." "Automated" is the word used in the official name of the product, automated ball-strike system, but "robot" is a more exciting word. It comes from the 1920 play "R.U.R." by the Czech writer, Karel Čapek...
R.U.R. = Rossum's Universal Robots. This play comes up in crossword puzzles all the time, you may know.
Anyway... in automated ball-strike system, the plate umpire still has independent work. As deBrauwere put it:
"Yeah, it takes something out of the umpire’s hands, but it places additional focus on other things we’re responsible for. Every other decision we have to make will now be magnified. Every check swing, every fair-foul, every safe or out will be even more important now."And if the system malfunctions, he's got to go back to calling the balls and strikes.
The catcher bemoaned his loss of influence: "As a catcher, I don’t really like it too much because it takes away from my skill at receiving the ball. But if it helps the game, obviously at the big league level, that’s what we’re all here for." That is, there are ways of tricking a human umpire that will be of no use with the radar.
There are benefits for the pitcher: "Some of the pitches they call strikes (now) don’t look like strikes. It looks like a ball and TrackMan calls it a strike. It’s just different. Every pitch I've thrown (high in the strike zone) has been a ball my whole career, since I was 6 years old until now. It's different to see them called a strike." That is, some strikes trick the batter and the human umpire. The pitcher will get a new advantage.
पोस्ट्स
९० टिप्पण्या:
I would not Get behind a plate and do that.
I can call high strikes my own damned self. And I do.
I concur that it is automation, not robotics. We don't look at a radar system and call it a robot.
If there is room for Angel Hernandez in MLB, then automation isn't a problem.
It is better than going to a replay video!
-XC
What will we do when the Russians hack the system as a joke?
From the article: "The radar system measures a player's height and creates a strike zone."
This is current failing of all the automated systems - they completely fail at setting a top and bottom of the strike zone, which is based on the individual batter's natural stance. Applying calculations to determine the size of the strike will work to eliminate very small and tall players, and anyone who hits from an unusual stance. This will make the game a bit blander, and push it a bit farther down the road to Oblivion.
Anyone who remembers Eric Gregg knows that even major league umpires would define the strike zone their own way, regardless of the rules. At least this system will enforce some uniformity over the strike zone.
What’s even worse is the strike zone occurs when the batter is in the act of swinging.
The whole placement of the body compresses.
The real breakthrough will come when the rename the foul pole the fair pole.
When can we expect automation to replace Chief Roberts who says all he does is call balls and strikes? Not soon enough I think.
This is a travesty... I blame Trump.
People who dive deep into technical nomenclature are automatons
donald said...
What’s even worse is the strike zone occurs when the batter is in the act of swinging.
The whole placement of the body compresses.
True. People mistakenly think your resting stance at the plate determines your strike zone- it doesn't.
I remember the bad old days when the former Boston Braves, who now play in Atlanta, I guess, used to get strikes called for them if they were in an adjacent zip code.
Look what replay has done to the “catch” in the NFL. It used to be that you knew a catch when you saw it, now we get to argue about it with both sides having a case, a lot of times.
"It ain't nothing until I call it!" - Bill Klem, umpire
Just the latest case of some folks attempting to fix an inconsequential problem.
Baseball, as a spectator sport, is dying, but not because of controversial ball and strike calls. The games are too long, there are too many of them in the season, there aren't many interesting player personalities, and the action has become tedious and boring with most at-bats ending in either a home run, walk, or strike-out.
"I can call high strikes my own damned self. And I do. “
How do you know that?
I'm as pure a baseball purist as you can get.
Cubs fan since the early 50s. Uninterested in watching a ball game unless it's played at Wrigley.
And, I'm in favor of electronic ball and strike calls. Not having a consistent strike zone is silly.
I'm a retired programmer. The problem of defining the strike zone for each player is a non problem. Sew two sensors into each uniform to define the top and bottom of the zone. The tech to do this is available and simple.
I agree that the emphasis on home runs, especially solo home runs, guts the game of appeal for me. If I mainly want to see a guy solo hitting a ball far as the main entree of a sport, I will watch golf.
I’m all for this, as long as we go back to playing games during the day.
Blogger traditionalguy said...What will we do when the Russians hack the system as a joke?
Anything Russia will be blamed on Trump. You knew that.
One day Moneyball is going to be considered the greatest baseball movie. It should be on everybody’s list regardless.
Whether or not automating certain parts of the umpire's job are good depends on whether you consider the umpire a part of the game. If you do, then bad calls are also a part of the game--wild cards, if you will. If you don't, if umpires are there only to make sure the rules are applied as intended, then every mistake is a failure of the system and anything that prevents mistakes is an improvement.
That said, it's only a matter of time before some clever catcher finds a flaw in the system and exploits it. Because one thing umpires can do that machines are far from doing is spotting deviousness.
What’s killing baseball is that there are no longer just three channels on the TV, two of them crap, and one of them baseball.
You people are not seeing this advancement right.I say we computerize the ball. Putting a mini camera into the seams will keep the pitcher honest, show us a replay of the ball location and get great shots of the last seconds of every historic home run. And that can all be broadcast to the fan's device on wifi.
Think of it as artificial baseball.
Oh heck. Just revert to T-Ball. Then those tricky pitchers will no longer control everything.
alanc709 said...
Anyone who remembers Eric Gregg knows that even major league umpires would define the strike zone their own way, regardless of the rules. At least this system will enforce some uniformity over the strike zone.
I've heard it said, and figure it's probably true, that players are fine with umpires creating their own strike zones, so long as it's consistent.
The Umpire Strikes Back, by Ron Luciano, was mentioned in yesterday's Ball Four thread. He discusses Goose Gossage as the most precise pitcher he'd ever umpired. Gossage would put a ball right on the outside line. If it's called a strike, he'd put the next ball a 1/2 inch further out. If that's a strike, he'll go another 1/4 inch. And he'd keep going until the umpire called a ball, at which point he'd come right back to the line.
The punch line was that by moving the ball out in tiny increments, he could extend the strike zone half way to the dugout.
What we really need are robot parents to peacefully and supportively watch Little League games.
When do we get those?
Anything that promotes robot employment is a good thing. It's when the robots are sitting around with nothing to do that leads to trouble. That's when they start planning the uprising...
What’s killing baseball is that there are no longer just three channels on the TV, two of them crap, and one of them baseball.
Again, day games. Can’t tell you how many housewives I knew who were Braves fans.
Baseball went from owning its time slot to being just another prime time entertainment option.
You could replace the umpire with a wicket.
* * *
I think one reason the idea of an automated strike zone is popular is not to get rid of mistakes, but to get rid of arguments, game delays, and unnecessary ejections. And one unspoken reason that baseball wants robot umpires is Ángel Hernández.
It's Getting Pretty Hard Not To Get Ejected From A Game Ángel Hernández Is Umpiring
You can tell a robot it sucks, and who cares about that?
Players have always said they don’t care what the ump’s strike zone is on any particular day, as long as he called it the same for both teams.
It seems automation should help with that.
But as always there are unintended and unanticipated consequences.
This is a good idea why? The umpire is part of the game. Maybe they should replace the pitcher with a pitching machine too. More precise.
"It is a disgusting chapter, based solely on logic. Yet it had to end this way."
From the article: “He confirmed that the computerized strike zone will expand in the upper and lower zones but shrink a bit on the inside and outside. He said umpires are taught not to call low strikes on breaking pitches that drop out of the zone.”
That’s potentially a LOT of changes described in one paragraph.
Expanding the zone both high and low means more strikeouts, more popups, and more weak grounders. Advantage pitchers.
Shrinking the inside and outside corners means more pitches in the middle and more doubles and homers. Advantage hitters.
I consider myself a baseball purist. I hate the Designated Hitter, and I think the game will be ruined when the National League adopts it. But I also hate the umpire getting balls and strikes wrong. Why would anyone think that a human can accurately determine whether a high velocity curving small ball has passed over a particular 3 dimensional empty space several feet away, or think the game is enhanced when he fails on this impossible task? This is the sort of task that computers were designed for.
I resent the author suggesting that I would oppose this obvious enhancement to the integrity of the game.
"Sew two sensors into each uniform to define the top and bottom of the zone"
This was one of the earliest plans, and one of the easiest to game. The player just wears a baggy Jersey and his strike zone shrinks.
MLB has been using this technology to train umpires. They use it to show umpires how far their calls diverge from the calls made by umpires as a group. Calls are getting more consistent, although more experienced guys seem resistant to change.
The automated ball-strike system (ABS) is not what I think of when I hear "robot."
"Robot" = MSM fake news clickbait. Actual robot not needed.
The more honest news outlets, e.g. this article in Ball Park Digest, don't use the term.
An expanded, adequate strike zone oughta knock an hour off these snoozefests, not to mention eliminate lots of the digging in and swinging for the fences. Robot don't have an opinion on chin music.
Fiddling while Rome burns. The target audience for baseball, as desired by MLB, isn't watching and doesn't care, and this 'improvement' won't change that.
Tweaking it now will be child’s play. Maybe better than raising or lowering the mound.
5 days ago, a runner ran over a defensive player standing in the baseline without holding a ball. The initial call was safe at home. Upon further review, the runner was called out, because the defensive position was a catcher. Because the catcher was from a LA team and was hurt, the runner was subsequently fined and suspended 2 games.
Let's not talk about purity in baseball, lest we start talking of the purity of Epstein.
The player just wears a baggy Jersey and his strike zone shrinks.
OK. Here a system that I think is foolproof.
Measure every player on the roster. Establish a precise height for each player's bottom and top of the strike zone.
Create a database for the system to check against for each player who comes to bat.
Really, this is pretty simple stuff in the era of GPS and Doppler radar.
But will the robo-umpire obey the Three Laws of Robotics?
To me a baseball purist would say "Sometimes you win because of a bad call, and sometimes you lose."
Sewing electronic strips into uniforms? Cameras or sensors in the ball? No thanks.
I've been a fan since the early 70s, and I've seen how the NFL has been ruined - at least for me - with the replays and split-second boomerang video. It is unwatchable. Please don't do this to baseball games.
I'm really surprised that a Ladies Man and Cubs fan like Thomas would want to further take the romance out of the pastoral, 19th Century game.
I played catcher in LL, J. High, High School, and College. I love all the comments about catchers. They are all true. That's what makes the game great for players. It like chess for the different levels of depth in the game. It's like poker because you're always playing the odds. You also can hit the ball right on the nose to someone for an out, then hit one off the "fists" and bloop a single. Psychology also plays a part as mentioned by influencing the umpire. (They all liked me.) And other factors that I could write a book about. It's a great game from the players/coaches perspective. (I coached college for 6 years.) I'm embarrassed to say this, but as a spectators point of view, it can be boring.
"Measure every player on the roster. Establish a precise height for each player's bottom and top of the strike zone."
Measure what? Standing height or in a stance? If it's in a stance, and a guy games that by one inch, it's a tremendous advantage in the course of the season - far more bad calls than the current system produces. If it's standing height, you're going to drive out all sorts of guys who use unusual stances and make the game interesting.
People have been lulled into a sense of security by seeing this system on broadcasts for so long. They don't get that the top and bottom of the strike in those graphics is set in a hodgepodge of ways, sometimes by a tech intern in the booth. It's consistent, but there's no claim it's right.
"he's hearing the call made by 'a large Doppler radar screen high above home plate'"
So, managers, after yelling and screaming at the home plate umpire, won't be able to deliver the coup de grace of moving a small pile of dirt onto the ump's shoes. Now, that's a loss, a real loss. No more fun.
20 Greatest Manager Meltdowns in Baseball History,
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1167217-mlb-20-greatest-manager-meltdowns-in-baseball-history#slide1
Rory, you are right. I also think, those TV graphics are part of the reason there's this push for this technology.
Apparently the robot can't 'see' that a pitch that hits the dirt in front of the plate and bounces up into the strike zone should be a ball.
Question? What if the IT guy does what the catcher used to do? Move the strikezone out a 1/2 inch for the opposing teams at bat. Move it in for the home team. Will the League have protective measures? Will hackers hack?
alanc709 said...
donald said...
What’s even worse is the strike zone occurs when the batter is in the act of swinging.
The whole placement of the body compresses.
True. People mistakenly think your resting stance at the plate determines your strike zone- it doesn't.
So what is the MLB strike zone if a batter doesn’t swing?
Fart noises. The challenge deal ruined baseball for me.
It's not in the "act" of swinging. It's when he's prepared to swing, which is vague but basically at the moment a player decides to swing.
Bad idea. Why not back up the catcher and put in wickets.
The human brain takes analog motion and digitizes it. It's called a perceptual moment. I can't remember exactly, but it is either 5 or 6 perceptual moments for a batter to decide. That's 5 or 6 pictures to determine speed, location and rotation. It put the nervous system to its physical limits.
There is a bias in strike calling, even among good umps. I was a pitcher in my youth. I threw strikes, challenged hitters. Because I threw strikes umps would give me pitches I didn't deserve, pitches that were really balls. I agree w/ the radar implementation. This aforementioned dynamic will die, as it should.
By the way. Catcher's equipment is called "the tools of ignorance."
"Measure what? Standing height or in a stance?...If it's standing height, you're going to drive out all sorts of guys who use unusual stances and make the game interesting."
Why will they be "driven out"?
Well, if calling balls and strikes can be automated, why can’t “cruel neutrality” be automated?
I say go with the robot umpires.
Sensors sewn into the jerseys is too imprecise, but it can be solved with sensors pierced through the players' nipples.
Sensors sewn into the jerseys is too imprecise, but it can be solved with sensors pierced through the players' nipples.
Then we'll see saggy man boobs become an advantage. No thanks.
A baseball purist would know that arguing balls and strikes has been strictly banned for some time now. Any manager charging out of the dugout to argue this is automatically ejected.
I like the individual tendencies of different umpires.
Hitters grok it and compensate. Replay's enough tech.
Radar commonly uses 100 to 300 gigaHertz radio frequencies. If you hate the idea of radar-mediated baseball, go hysterical about the possible cancer-inducing properties of 100 to 300 gigaHertz RF. Plus, it may be bad for the environment. And it's probably racist and patriarchal. The money used for the system should be confiscated by taxes so it can be diverted to reparations programs instead. And if you oppose these ideas, you are obviously racist and sexist.
I think I'll ask Rep. Occasio-Cortez to look into this.
"why can’t “cruel neutrality” be automated?"
You mean, Althouse's ritual invocations of CN aren't actually automatic? You mean, she calls it herself every time? Nah.
The idea that a human umpire is more accurate about the top and bottom of the stance-adjusted strike zone than the ABS is blatantly ridiculous.
@donald - All that empty space violates Althouse rules. You're outta here!
Now you're kicking dirt on Althouse's shoes!
Sounds like a good idea. Let the automated system be the villain and not the poor umpire. And it will eliminate the catcher's 'framing' the pitch.
“It’s all about where you (The batter) are when the ball enters the strike zone. If you have any more questions the rule book is accessible on line. “
I didn’t ask what the rule was, I asked how you can be certain that you are seeing the pitches correctly.
Look up the definition of the strike zone. Apply the "batter stance" at moment of swing criteria. Most umpire still call pitches "ball" in the upper part of the strike zone.
FWIW,I was one of those kids that smuggled a transistor radio into grade school, snaked a earphone through my sleeve and listened to the world series.
Today? I won't attend or watch a major league game.
I do, however, support the Montgomery Biscuits.
I don't know why the rules can't change to accomodate the technology. Define the strike zone per the batter's dimensions when standing erect.
The NFL had a rule that if a pass catcher would have come down in bounds if not for the defender pushing him out, then it was called a catch. Hugely subjective. They changed it to allow the defender to push him out, which is easy to call.
I didn’t ask what the rule was, I asked how you can be certain that you are seeing the pitches correctly.
Magic of course.
Or extensive and diligent training.
I’ve officiated about a thousand games in the last 4 years. I’ve had two ejections. So the magic or the training works pretty well at the college and high school level.
Yes they do Jaore and it’s maddening.
"Baseball, as a spectator sport, is dying"
Baseball is experiencing its 4th consecutive season of reduced attendance at the parks. HOWEVER, regional TV viewership of baseball is still very strong. Maybe the ballpark experience has become too expensive and/or cumbersome?
Anything that puts Angel Hernandez out of a job is fine by me.
"eliminate the catcher's 'framing' the pitch."
This is a crucial skill for catchers to develop and without it, I think we'll see differences in valuation of catchers in the coming years.
I really love all of the comments opposing this proposal that are coming from experienced players and umpires. So many unintended consequences coming from this supposed technological advance.
I read through all of the previous comments quickly, and I don't think anyone mentioned this aspect: this is not a baseball problem. This is a "televised sports" problem. In other words, fans at a stadium watching a game at any level are not bothered by any errors in balls and strikes. Of course you are happy when your guy throws a called third strike on the corner. And of course you are upset when your guy gets called out on what looks like an outside pitch. And we all have seen some big strike zones and some small strike zones.
But the only pressure to correct that comes from modern hi-def, graphically-loaded television broadcasts. The only reason for refs to review replays in any sport, and the only reason for technical assistance with line calls at Wimbledon or balls and strikes in MLB is because television broadcasts, with multiple hi-def cameras and super-slow motion replay, can make refs and umpires look bad. It isn't the game itself that demands replay or technical review, it is the televised event that demands it. So that the game can go on, with no refereeing errors that were exposed by television being left uncorrected.
And on and on we go, with television taking over spectator sports. Making the live experience less fun and less important, and the television feed all the more important.
{#14}
TV is "taking over" sports because for every person who watches in person, 2 further,0 times - or more - watch on TV. If a million watch on TV, which is a fairly low rating, then that's 40x more people than a 25,000 crowd. Further, how many people in the Stadium care about a robot helping the umpire?
Baseball needs to spend less time on automated umpires, and more time on speeding up the game. No BB should last more than 2 hours. Stop with the endless - unnecessary pitching changes, the endless talks at the mounds, and constant stepping out of the batter's box and taking 30 seconds between pitches. Just throw the damn ball.
One good thing about soccer is they just play, and we don't get endless substitutions, games stoppages, and timeouts for a manager/player heart-to-heart.
Chuck, and other critics of the technology: As rcocean points out, TV has changed sports due to instant replays, multiple camera shots, etc. Be it baseball or football, and like it or not, we now have access to bad calls by officials. Ad nauseam. The toothpaste is out of the tube.
One good thing about soccer is they just play, and we don't get endless substitutions, games stoppages, and timeouts for a manager/player heart-to-heart.
That may be the only good thing about soccer. Even curling is more interesting.
Or extensive and diligent training.
So you train against some kind of system that measures balls and strikes? I am curious, really. So far all you have said is that you know you get them right because you know you get them right.
Now go read some Stanislaw Lem and see if you can pick out the criticism of communism in the plots.
Sometimes, batters swing at a pitch out of the strike zone. Then they turn around and ask the umpire if it was a strike. Umpires weigh that impulsiveness against the hitter, reasoning that they have enlarged the strike zone.
Anyway, they should start awarding walks after three balls, and strikeouts at two. Game's too long and slow.
I always say yes Chillblane.
If they ask is that as far as I’ll go, I say I don’t know. My main stuff is high school and show case tournaments. It is pounded into our head to expand, expand, expand. In high school, which I love doing, they want consistency and professionalism, everything else will
Work itself out. In summer games, it ranges from they don’t care at all to assholes who think the guy working the plate in his fourth game of the day is the worst goddamned umpire they have ever seen. In our case, they’re getting minor league, college and the best high school guys around. Doesn’t matter, you’re the worst and Johnny is getting screwed out of a scholarship.
टिप्पणी पोस्ट करा