"To more than one hundred and seventy veterans of the Second World War who join us today – you are among the very greatest Americans who will ever live. You are the pride of our nation. You are the glory of our republic.... To the men who sit behind me, your example will never grow old. Your legend will never die. The blood that they spilled, the tears that they shed, the lives that they gave, the sacrifice that they made, did not just win a battle, it did not just win a war… they won the survival of our civilization."
Trump, today, at Normandy.
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३१७ टिप्पण्या:
317 पैकी 1 – 200 नवीन› नवीनतम»He’s quite right.
Bone spurs.
(BTW, I got “access denied” when I tried to follow your foxnews link.)
Since I am being treated for a bone spur right now, Chuck, remind me if we ever meet to hit you good and hard in the mouth. That will educate you on what’s funny and what isn’t.
Beautiful words.
It's true, too. I think about D-Day all the time when modern women complain so much about being put upon or having their bodies controlled.
Chuck said..."I am afraid you are mistaking me for someone who has an interest in fair treatment of Donald Trump. I'm not your guy. I am interested in smearing him, hurting him and prejudicing people against him."
It's true, too. I think about D-Day all the time when modern women complain so much about being put upon or having their bodies controlled.
Gee, I thought the whole point of the war was to defend freedom. I think your thinking is more indicative of the other side.
Gee, I thought the whole point of the war was to defend freedom. I think your thinking is more indicative of the other side.
Gee, Freder, I thought most Irishmen understood the English language.
Chuck said...
Bone spurs.
I'm 8 years USAF. What was your military service, Deeply Blue Chuck?
Gee, I thought the whole point of the war was to defend freedom. I think your thinking is more indicative of the other side.
What? Are you accusing me of wrongthink?
Bone spurs.
Tell us about your service, Chuck.
"Bone spurs."
What a tiny, pathetic, little man. A failure at life. At everything. A poster child of the do-nothing eunichs in the GOP. No wonder he hates Trump. Trump is everything he isn't.
"Those young men died to defend freedom. How dare you have a wrong opinion about other women! That's like the Nazis!"
The NY Times was not pleased that Prez Trump spoke at D-Day memorial services:
How small he is! Small in spirit, in valor, in dignity, in statecraft, this American president who knows nothing of history and cares still less and now bestrides Europe with his family in tow like some tin-pot dictator with a terrified entourage.
That's a pretty confusing bit. How did Trump bringing his family along make him "like some tin-pot dictator?"
How will the press skew this into anti-Trump bilge?
I am remembering those who died today. I'm grateful that Dad wasn't one of them. He spent the war in Northern Ireland and northern England, and then did mop-up after V-E Day in Germany. Honorably Discharged as a Corporal.
Well, this conversation went to hell fast. What, 3 minutes to turn the subject to Trump-hating? Bait thrown. Bait taken.
Are you accusing me of wrongthink?
Apparently you think Freedom is Slavery, War is Peace, and Ignorance is Strength. So what I am accusing of is the opposite of wrongthink.
"(BTW, I got “access denied” when I tried to follow your foxnews link.)"
Gah. Yeah, Fox does that. I went there away from the NYT because I didn't want to stymie you with the Times paywall. But Fox apparently doesn't like traffic sent its way.
Blogger Big Mike said...
Since I am being treated for a bone spur right now, Chuck, remind me if we ever meet to hit you good and hard in the mouth. That will educate you on what’s funny and what isn’t.
I am so glad that a true sufferer of the condition spoke up about his treatment.
What was Trump’s treatment? Who treated him? When? How?
Veterans already got what they deserved - a free country. Andy Rooney
The celebrations strike me as wanting to participate without any risk. Maybe worry more about the free country. Stand up to the PC mobs.
Apparently you think Freedom is Slavery, War is Peace, and Ignorance is Strength. So what I am accusing of is the opposite of wrongthink.
Actually, I just think Modern Female Empowerment is Disempowering.
Ann Althouse said...
Well, this conversation went to hell fast. What, 3 minutes to turn the subject to Trump-hating? Bait thrown. Bait taken.
6/6/19, 7:53 AM
It's your own fault, Althouse. You wanted it, didn't you?
Why don't you make one of those Attention Class announcements, and delete Chuck and everyone who responded to him?
I really cannot imagine participating in DDay. I am so grateful and awed by every single one of the Allied men who did it. What a thing!
Iron Brigade
2nd Wisconsin lost 3/4s of its men in 2 days
Seeing Bad Orange Man Trump as a tin pot dictator is a silly panic reaction to his ending the continual state of wars that has been the life blood that the Deep State and CIA under Bush/Clinton/Bush/Obama live by while they remain wealthy off their worldwide trafficking in Drugs and children.
To those "more than one hundred and seventy veterans of the Second World War who join us today", I'll bet none of them thought "Bone spurs". Shame on you Chuck, your hatred of Trump makes you look like a fool. A damned fool at that.
Althouse there were a hundred, a thousand ways to commemorate the D-Day 75 remembrance without Trump. You chose Trump. You wanted to help Trump use the occasion to use it himself to adorn himself and his administration in traditional presidential credibility.
Chuck thought about joining the military. There must be a medal for that.
I see the smear merchant is chumming the waters again. Chuck, you're going to need a bigger boat.
Bait thrown. Bait taken.
So you are surprised when you throw out chum and the sharks arrive?
Shouting Thomas: Roger Cohen and the rest of the "Vietnam War was right after all" liberals are too stupid and phony to take seriously. His ilk would call American WW 2 vets Nazis these days anyway.
I'm sure all the French and British vets there were grateful for the presence of war heroes Macron and May.
At 7:56 Gilbar wrote: "I'm glad he said Among the greatest
Let's hear it for the boys at d day!
Let's hear for the boys of the 2nd Wisconsin, and the rest of the iron birga6! Let's hear it for all the people that put it on the line for our country!!"
I accidentally deleted that (while trying to get something else out). Sorry.
I really cannot imagine participating in DDay.
Agreed. Riding in a boat in cold waters to likely death. I can appreciate how tightly you would bond with other survivors if you got through that.
When I read articles about people doing something heroic, and then I compare it to D-Day, I always think about the watering down of the adjective heroic.
You realize, Chuck, that the media wouldn't give a damn about it being the 75th anniversary of D-Day if Trump weren't there to vilify.
Chuck, presidents speak at these events. It's what they do. To mock him (Trump) makes you look petty and small.
PS: Can you guess which president spoke at the 50 year anniversary?
Blogger Darrell said...
Chuck thought about joining the military. There must be a medal for that.
Althouse doesn’t want a comments page about me. But that’s what you’re trying to do.
I never dodged the draft. I never thought about dodging the draft. Not with a fake medical excuse nor any other way.
"I never dodged the draft. I never thought about dodging the draft."
In the era of the new and improved justice system of proving a negative, I ask for evidence of this.
PS: Yes Chuck, you have commandeered this post with your shot across the bow.
Althouse there were a hundred, a thousand ways to commemorate the D-Day 75 remembrance without Trump.
But not without the President of the United States.
Chuck--
Fuck yourself with a running chainsaw.
I'm sure Althouse would approve of this.
I still get chills thinking about how courageous these young 20-year olds were to storm the beach at Normandy.
D-Day, June 6, 1944 - when, we, as Americans liberated the European continent.
But if he's a Nazi, shouldn't he be condemning the Allies victory?
Chuck and Freder crap on the thread.
I've been to Omaha Beach and the cemetery. It was amazing that they got through the huge concrete barrier that blocked the road up from the beach, Every year I watch "The Longest Day," which is the best movie about D Day. "Saving Private Ryan" has an intense scene about the initial landing but the rest of the movie is sentimental crap. The worst line is where the Tom Hanks' character says that saving the one soldier, which costs the lives of the others is "the only thing worth while" about the invasion.
Utah and the British beaches did not have the bluff as a barrier. East of Utah there was marsh land and the 101st was dropped inland the hold the causeways across them. San Mere Eglise is the village that a lot of them dropped on. There are museums for the 82nd and 101st. The village has a parachute hanging from the church when the guy was caught and hung there during the battle. It's all explained by the move "The Longest Day."
I go back and read these on June 6, just to remind myself of the bravery of those who saved the world. The men on those beaches had courage, and what they endured we can not even really imagine.
First Wave at Omaha
Ernie Pyle at Normandy
""I'm glad he said Among the greatest."
It's even better than that. "Among the greatest WHO WILL EVER LIVE." Acknowledging that there is almost no likelihood that any group of Americans will ever be called upon to take on such a heroic, extraordinary task. Largely, of course due to the brave men
of D Day. That was the perfect phrase.
On this historic day, Trump's speech was excellent - well done, Mr. President!
Reagan's famous "Boys of Pointe Du Hoc" speech 35 years ago set the bar high. Many of the survivors were in their early 60s, so could attend the speech.
I'm in a good mood. More precisely, real American leadership has put me in a good mood.
Well, this conversation went to hell fast. What, 3 minutes to turn the subject to Trump-hating? Bait thrown. Bait taken.
This is a damn shame. Here is a comment section on one of the most heroic days in modern times. Trump is right those boys fought and died for nothing more than to save modernity. They were not there for riches or conquest.
Yet Althouse allowed Chuck to shit over all this. This was the second comment. Althouse regularly deletes early comments that derail a comment section.
Make no mistake, this is Althouse approved.
Turns out Europe wasn't worth saving.
I am Laslo.
Althouse there were a hundred, a thousand ways to commemorate the D-Day 75 remembrance without Trump. You chose Trump. You wanted to help Trump
The 75th Anniversary of D-Day. An amphibious assault never seen before, nor ever attempted since. 4400 US and allied men died that day. The majority being American service men.
On this Anniversary, The President of the United States was invited to take part in the ceremonies. He graciously accepted, and has delivered remarks and speeches that have struck the perfect chord of reverence, gratitude, inspiration, and respect. Honoring those brave souls.
President Trumps statesmanship shines through everything he has done on this trip. A commentator posting here could learn much about proper decorum during such an event honoring our fallen soldiers. But some insist on making it about themselves, so instead dishonor those brave men that paid the ultimate sacrifice.
Quite a slap in my face, as I reflect on my Mother, who landed on Omaha Beach several months after June 6th, 1944, to provide medical treatment to those that had survived their encounters with our enemies.
Althouse is a decent troll.
I figured the speech must have been pretty good--NPR didn't air any of if and just made mention that Pres. Trump made remarks.
The quoted passage is correct and I'm glad it was said. We owe a thanks we can never really pay and it's important to remember that.
Stars & Stripes: 97 Year Old WWII Veteran Parachutes Over Normandy
The press is left to figure out how a low-life like Donald Trump could possibly give such an inspiring speech at Normandy.
The spectacle backfired. Late night comics and Republican critics lambasted Clinton for supposedly exploiting the event for his own aggrandizement.
Clinton makes a cross of pebbles on Omaha Beach in Normandy, France, during the 50th anniversary of D-Day in 1994.
Photograph by J. David Ake — AFP via Getty Images
Michael K said...
I've been to Omaha Beach and the cemetery
It's one of those places that make you understand the word "awe." Looking out to sea, looking at the height of the cliffs, trying to understand how many people (attackers & defenders) were crammed into so small a space...it's difficult to grasp. I couldn't imagine making my way up the cliff at speed on my own, much less burdened with gear and facing thousands of entrenched men determined to kill me.
It's one of the best-maintained cemeteries I've ever seen, too. Truly a moving place.
The press is left to figure out how a low-life like Donald Trump could possibly give such an inspiring speech at Normandy.
Although his delivery is quite wooden, he can coherently read a speech that has been written for him. That is about the very minimum to be expected from a president.
"A nation reveals itself not only by the men it produces but also by the men it honors, the men it remembers.” --JFK
but not for government, nor church, nor society, but
when Common Decency presses upon you the necessity to
dedicate yourself--even your very body--to a greater cause,
do you have the luxury to refuse in good conscience?
If you had the choice to storm the beaches of Normandy to kill,
or to carry a baby to full term and give life,
which would you rather yield your body to?
today we remember those who took up Life's challenge
and endured the cost to ensure a better future
I can't imagine what it would be like to have Kamala Harris or Beto O'Rourke speaking at an event like this.
President Trumps statesmanship shines through everything he has done on this trip.
Involving yourself in the internal politics of an ally is not statesmanship. Did you see how miserable, and poorly dressed, he looked at the state dinner with the queen? Knowing when to keep your mouth shut, at least pretending to enjoy long boring dinners, and knowing how to dress are indicators of statesmanship.
What strikes me, when I see pictures of battle scenes from WWII, is how skinny they all were, compared to today. Coming through the depression, I guess. Working hard for a living. No snacking on Doritos. And they hit the beaches with no body armor either - just fatigues, a helmet, an M-1, a canteen belt and a pack.
Although his delivery is quite wooden, he can coherently read a speech that has been written for him. That is about the very minimum to be expected from a president.
I guess that puts the Lightbringer Obama in a bad light.
He stammers when the teleprompter isn't working right.
Did you see how miserable, and poorly dressed, he looked at the state dinner with the queen?
That's the true meaning of June 6th. For leftist's posting talking point...the fail to understand.
The Trump Presidency has so far exceeded almost every other President. Proof being the quality of the criticism.
he can coherently read a speech that has been written for him
Listen to President Trump speak extemporaneously for an hour. His foreign speeches are slowly being recognized as top 1% in content and delivery.
Compared to Obama. Who is a stammering 12 year old without a teleprompter. And if guy can't even write his own autobiography and is force to use fake characters, I don't believe he is capable to write his own speeches.
my Mother, who landed on Omaha Beach several months after June 6th, 1944, to provide medical treatment to those that had survived their encounters with our enemies.
I had a patient who was French and landed with LeClerc's division on August 1, 1944. Eventually, he married an American woman and moved here. We were talking about Normandy, as I had just returned, and he told me about his visit with his family. It was recent, about 1985 or so, and he showed them where he had landed. He said they were walking along the route he had taken in 1944 as his unit moved inland. He told his wife that he had knocked out a German tank right about where they were. He looked into the hedge, which in that area may be ten feet deep and five feet high, and there was the tank still there ! The farmer had apparently pushed it into the hedge and left it there all those years.
What strikes me, when I see pictures of battle scenes from WWII, is how skinny they all were
In that movie from WWI, "They Shall Not Grow Old," I was struck by how many soldiers had bad teeth or a lot of teeth missing. The English armies took a lot of poor soldiers. The US Army also had a lot of poorly nourished soldiers in WWI.
That's the true meaning of June 6th. For leftist's posting talking point...the fail to understand.
Did I criticize his actions today? You are the one who brought up the entire trip. He (and his family) were an embarrassment on his English leg of the trip. Not statesmanlike in the least.
Listen to President Trump speak extemporaneously for an hour.
Please no! Yes he can rant for quite a while. Find an hour's worth of meaningful content in an hour long extemporaneous speech. Maybe you can find five minutes that isn't repetitive, lies or nonsense.
In the introduction to his dispatch from Normandy, Ernie Pyle wrote: "I want to tell you what the opening of the second front in this one sector entailed, so that you can know and appreciate and forever be humbly grateful to those both dead and alive who did it for you."
That is what this day means. But you can, if you choose to, make it an opportunity to criticize the political figures of today. To what purpose?
Freder, can you please shut the fuck up while adults think about the topic of the post ?
But you can, if you choose to, make it an opportunity to criticize the political figures of today. To what purpose?
I entered the fray when MayBee, in the fifth comment no less, used the lessons of D-Day to criticize the modern woman.
"I think about D-Day all the time when modern women complain so much about being put upon or having their bodies controlled."
Remembering D-Day ...
Then out spake brave Horatius,
The Captain of the gate:
“To every man upon this earth
Death cometh soon or late.
And how can man die better
Than facing fearful odds
For the ashes of his fathers
And the temples of his gods....
Doesn't althouse have a nearby post extolling free speech? Pass over the comments you don't like. For me the comments here are often a vast wasteland, but it's not hard, as an adult, to pass over them.
Thanks Freder.
Freder, can you please shut the fuck up while adults think about the topic of the post ?
Like I said, I am responding to MayBee and iowan2 who want to make the subject of the post the glorification of Trump or the vilification of feminists.
So why don't you tell them to STFU?
Blogger MayBee said..."I really cannot imagine participating in DDay."
Yes, I've tried to imagine myself storming off those boats into the gunfire. Horrible.
My father felt guilty for not having served in WWII. His buddies in later life had all served. Thankfully, from my perspective, he was just a little too young.
Like I said, I am responding to MayBee and iowan2 who want to make the subject of the post the glorification of Trump or the vilification of feminists.
I actually don't want to make the vilification of feminists the subject of the post. I just made an observation and you are free to ignore, agree, or disagree.
"He looked into the hedge, which in that area may be ten feet deep and five feet high, and there was the tank still there !"
That must have been a jolt.
I actually don't want to make the vilification of feminists the subject of the post. I just made an observation and you are free to ignore, agree, or disagree.
Apparently Michael K. doesn't think I should be free to disagree.
last year I had the opportunity to visit the Normandy landing beaches and stand in awe of the courage of the men who made the D-day assault there. I walked on the beaches that were turned into slaughter fields by the German bunkers and gun emplacements that covered every square inch of the landing zone with withering fire. I tried to imagine the pure terror associated with negotiating the hundred yards wide, totally exposed sand expanse that the landing troops faced. I climbed into a few concrete German fortifications that remained on the cliffs and looked down on the beaches from that perspective and just shook my head. Then I went to the American Memorial and Cemetery in Colleville-sur-Mer and wandered through the rows upon rows of white crosses stars of David that mark the final resting places of the 9387 men who made the ultimate sacrifice there 75 years ago, and I was very much moved and humbled. When I read President Trump's statement above, I immediately realized his words captured exactly what I felt that day in the cemetery but lacked the eloquence to express. I do not understand how some commenters here can take a tribute meant to honor and remember those magnificent Americans and use it as a political cudgel against the American leader who was selected to speak for all of us through that tribute. During my own military service I experienced combat in two wars, but the challenges I faced were inconsequential compared to those faced by these men at Normandy. I don't believe that my military service makes me superior to anyone who did not serve, but all that did serve, particularly those resting in Coleville-sur-Mer, deserve the respect of all their countrymen. It's very disheartening to see how tribalism and political posturing have become more important than showing respect for the men who gave so much to all of us.
Apparently Michael K. doesn't think I should be free to disagree
My only objection, Field Marshal, is the stupidity.
I understand why you avoid the topic of war or fighting.
It's very disheartening to see how tribalism and political posturing have become more important than showing respect for the men who gave so much to all of us.
Yes. I have some photos on my own blog post today. My visits were years ago.
In my lengthy career as a military historian, including interviewing veterans and writing oral histories, I never once encountered a World War II veteran who expressed anything remotely akin to the spurious sentiments expressed by the Sgt. Horvath character in "Saving Private Ryan" (Note to Michael: it was Horvath, played by Tom Sizemore, not the Tom Hanks character, who uttered those words you quoted). Quite the contrary.
I did interview many veterans of the Polish Home Army who took part in the Warsaw uprising of 1944, several of whom reflected that, in retrospect, the uprising had been a mistake -- so many lives lost and their beautiful city utterly destroyed to no strategic military purpose. But they were embittered (still, after all these years) by the failure of the Western Allies to provide them with meaningful assistance in their doomed struggle; and by the perfidy of the Soviets, who halted their advancing forces on the east bank of the Vistula and literally looked idly on as the Germans crushed the uprising in a ferocious battle lasting the most part of two months. Even at that, however, those veterans still expressed pride in having taken part in the fighting and, in doing so, play no small role in upholding Polish honor.
The cemetery is immaculate.
The Omaha roadblock is big.
I remember most vividly, the landscape on top of Pointe du Hoc. 75 years later, the craters made by the USS Texas still remind me of the moon.
The Longest Day is better than Saving Private Ryan. Spielberg disappointed me by getting the beach obstacles wrong.
Absent comrades!
"... and a time for every purpose, under heaven."
alanc709 said...
I'm 8 years USAF. What was your military service,
The USAF is a military service? Who knew?
just a bit of friendly banter:)
"I do not understand how some commenters here can take a tribute meant to honor and remember those magnificent Americans and use it as a political cudgel against the American leader who was selected to speak for all of us through that tribute."
Thank you for that, jaydub.
One millennial (or younger) to another: “What’s a Normandy?”
they won the survival of OUR civilization."
Trump often emphasizes the "our" in "our nation" "our civilization." I suspected he did so here, and upon listening to his speech confirmed it. It might mean nothing, but I suspect it relates to his line from a speech he gave in Poland: "The fundamental question of our time is whether the West has the will to survive."
I almost forgot.
"Here's to the Boys from Bedford" A/1/116 Inf Rgt, 29th Div, Virginia NG
about the only folks who landed on the correct beach. To their ultimate loss.
Blogger readering said...
“Pass over the comments you don't like. For me the comments here are often a vast wasteland, but it's not hard, as an adult, to pass over them.”
It’s not adulthood. It’s lefty incuriousness. Projecting, using straw men and trolling don’t require knowledge.
Just remember, the Knights Templar were once the saviors of their civilization. Then they were all hunted down and killed.
"Cuthbert (93 year old veteran) later told reporters that his impression of Trump in person was very different from what he had seen on television. “He surprised me, [compared to] when you see someone on the TV but he seemed different, he seemed one of the boys,” Cuthbert said ....
Several others also noted how different he was from the way he was often portrayed on television and that the president seemed genuinely glad to be with them.
“I was very surprised, he spoke very quietly, I wasn’t expecting that,” said Joan Berfield, who worked as a coder during the war. She said that Trump had also wished her a happy birthday (she will be 95 on June 7) and was very interested in what she had done......
Another British veteran said that meeting the president “completely changed my mind of him.” Ted Cordery, 95, said the Trump emphasized the role that British service members had played on D-Day when they met.....
“He (Trump) said ‘you guys did a great job’ but I said it wasn’t only us – your country did it as well. We shook hands and he said ‘delighted to meet you.’ It has completely changed my mind of him,” Cordery said."
https://dailycaller.com/2019/06/06/d-day-veteran-cuthbert-flirts-melania-trump-donald-handle-it/
See, just read hombre, easy.
Concerning "Saving Private Ryan" and the aforementioned Polish Home Army veterans I interviewed: one of those men told me that the final battle scene in the movie (which had been released just prior to when I interviewed him) was very accurate in portraying MOUT combat, and was depicted with stunning authenticity the street fighting he experienced in the 1944 Warsaw rising. He said that the grinding sound of German tank tracks as the panzers yet unseen approached the town was exactly correct -- he had heard the same sound, and the memory of it as he sat in the darkened movie theater where he watched "Saving Private Ryan" sent chills up and down his spine.
He also told me that, subsequent to the German surrender, after he and many Polish Home Army veterans had fled to the West to escape the Soviets (who were arresting and dispatching Home Army veterans to the Gulag), he met American soldiers who comported themselves in much the same manner as Pvt. Ryan. He liked those Yanks -- like their smiling faces, their easygoing demeanor, their friendly outgoing behavior. He decided then and there to immigrate to America, and become an American.
to know what europe has become would have cut down a soldier more effectively than any enemy fire
When Eisenhower asked when the Air Corps in 1943 when would be finished, and ready for the ground invasion, they replied 1948 or 1949 with the current strategic bombing strategy.
At that point Eisenhower ordered them to begin carpet bombing the cities, like the British were doing. Get rid of the Norden bomb sights and just dump as many bombs on the cities as they could.
Cities like Dresden were firebombed and leveled. "So it goes..."
The ground invasion was then able to proceed in 1944.
"immigrate to America"
emigrate actually...
Even at that, however, those veterans still expressed pride in having taken part in the fighting and, in doing so, play no small role in upholding Polish honor.
I used to know an anesthesiologist named Andy Olesiak (?sp) who actually was there in the fighting but survived and got out.
I thought it was the Hanks character but to argue I would have to watch it again.
I will watch "The Longest Day" again. I spent several weeks tracing all those locations. I even have a photo I took of the bagpipes played as Lord Lovett marched to relieve the 6th Airborne at Pegasus Bridge, I saw Lord Lovett at the Tower of London, one time. He did not look like Peter Lawford.
Dresden firebombed February 1945.
Etienne @10:59 AM:
Actually ... you seemed to have missed the other typo in my post. Or, perhaps, you saw it and chose not to correct it for the edification of other commenters to this thread.
I've jibed at Trump as Cadet Bone Spurs, but so what? He got deferments and exemptions to stay out of a foolish war, but so did many others left, right, and center. I had two years student deferral (thanks to the WWII veteran congressmen who made the laws) and then drew a high number in the lottery. I was and am friends with people who served and people who didn't, and with few exceptions the ones that served aren't really all that mad about those who didn't.
Almost all of my friends had fathers (and a few had mothers) who were veterans. I never heard of a single case of any of those parents expecting, urging, or requiring their sons or daughters to join up to fight in Vietnam. Some actively discouraged it.
I will watch the ceremonies at some point, but I've never needed the NYT or WaPo (or even the commentators here) to frame and interpret what politicians say.
Narr
Maybe they weren't The Greatest Generation, but I know mine isn't
hiawatha biscayne, 9:33:
"What strikes me, when I see pictures of battle scenes from WWII, is how skinny they all were, compared to today. Coming through the depression, I guess. Working hard for a living."
I was touring one of the bases where they trained US Army recruits for WWII. Our guide pointed out wryly that while today's recruits lose weight in basic training (I did, and I was pretty fit going in), the average early-WWII recruit gained weight, so many of them had come from poverty and malnutrition.
Laslo,
"Turns out Europe wasn't worth saving."
Gotta disagree with you there - not that they don't make it difficult sometimes.
The bombing that paved the way for relatively light Dday death toll was in France. Killed a lot of French civilians.
Roughcoat said...
and the aforementioned Polish Home Army veterans
I visited Arnhem (A Bridge too Far) years ago. There is a British Cemetery there. A little piece of England.
Unlike the US Cemeteries with golf course lawns, the Brit version looked like a cemetery from a village church. After the war, the families were allowed to put inscriptions of the headstones. "Here's to Jocko.."
Adjacent was the Polish Airborne Brigade cemetery. This was in the late 70's, and it was desolate and run down. After the Soviets overran Poland, they installed their people in power. When the free Poles from the West went home, they were sent to the Gulag.
I did a post on the logistics of D-Day. It was a staggering undertaking.
Lest we think that D-Day was a sure thing, Eisenhower prepared a statement if the landings failed.
"“Our landings in the Cherbourg-Havre area have failed to gain a satisfactory foothold and I have withdrawn the troops. My decision to attack at this time and place was based upon the best information available. The troops, the air and the Navy did all that Bravery and devotion to duty could do. If any blame or fault attaches to the attempt it is mine alone.”
That's what leadership is...
McNamara's Project 100,000 scooped-up 100,000 morons and imbeciles (low IQ) into the Viet Nam war.
Over 5000 of them were killed, but you have to figure that every time one of them died, another soldier died because of their stupidity.
It wasn't their fault. McNamara and Johnson were politically unable to use the National Guard, or Reserves, and could never change the deferment program.
That left only the morons and imbeciles to be drafted.
The only soldier to be executed in WW2 was a low IQ (petty thief) moron.
Perhaps assigning "greatest generation" status to any age cohort can never be anything more than a flawed and meaningless exercise, if for no other reason than that in every historical period the generations overlap. It's rather like trying to determine the NFL's great running back or some such. But if forced, I would have to say that the greatest American generation was the one or, more precisely, the ones, plural, that fought in the Civil War. But that's just my opinion, and a highly subjective opinion at that.
Michael K,
About Saving Private Ryan: I agree with you that not all of the movie is as well done as the Omaha Beach scene, but I disagree that the rest is sentimental crap. Certainly there is some, and the line you mention was the worst of it. The scene with the old man asking his wife to tell him he's a good man just doesn't quite work for me.
But there's a lot to admire as the story develops. Barry Pepper's sniper, Giovanni Ribisi's medic, were unforgettable characters. Watching the movie for the second time it struck me how the heroic CPT Miller is really barely holding it together, and getting closer to the end of his rope (and making mistakes) as the movie goes on.
Without giving too much away, the .45 versus tank duel gets every time, for the refusal to just give up even when it's obviously almost over. And the line that hits me hard, at this moment in history and in my own life: "Earn this."
Biggest first day invasion? Sicily 1943. Yeah, I know, against Italians.
The Drill SGT:
I find that statement moving, every time.
As you probably know, he originally wrote "the troops have been withdrawn". Then he struck that through and replaced it with, "I have withdrawn the troops."
The only soldier to be executed in WW2 was a low IQ (petty thief) moron.
Many scores of American soldiers were executed in World War II for committed various capital crimes. Pvt. Slovik was the only American soldier executed for desertion.
Note the following:
"IN A forgotten graveyard in Fere en Tardenois, France, lie the bodies of 96 American soldiers executed in World War II. Their graves are in back of a famous World War I cemetery, in a wooded clearing, marked only by small numbered marble squares.
"These are the deserters, the rapists, the thieves and those otherwise deemed unfit by the military courts and executed on foreign soil. These are the ones who are called 'the dishonorable dead.'"
The bombing that paved the way for relatively light Dday death toll was in France. Killed a lot of French civilians.
Churchill had reservations about that very issue. The "Transportation Plan" attacked railway stations and he was concerxned. Roosevelt told him there was no change to the plan.
The one rather unrealistic part of "The Longest Day" was the celebratory reaction of the French Civilians in Normandy. I have read a number of descriptions of them as sullen. There is an excellent book, "D Day through German eyes" that makes the point that the Germans got on well with the French until the invasion.
Despite what the people at the New York Times think, World War Two was not won by Social Justice Warriors and people who have wet dreams about UN bureaucracy. For the most part, it was won by rednecks, America Firsters, anti-immigrationists, “gay bashers” and other “deplorables”.
Who is this Chuck guy and why is he such a raving dick?
Slovik was executed for repeated desertion and boasting about it. He threatened to do so again. That was around the Battle of the Bulge in which there was a real lack of new troops as the American public was convinced the war was won and resisted conscription. There is a whole section on that subject in Pogue's biography of Marshall. They were very worried.
I see that Blogger snuck in a duplicate comment.
After we properly honor our US troops and the military leadership (Ike, Patton, Bradley, et al), then we can have a sober discussion on how the US politicians (mostly FDR at Yalta) caved by letting Stalin and the Commies take half of Europe.
The irony of ironies:
1. The start of WWII (1939) -- those damnable Nazis have invaded Poland!
2. The end of WWII (1945) -- here, Uncle Joe, take Poland.
Repeat after me: The Commies were as bad as the Nazis, the Commies were as bad as the Nazis, the Commies were as bad as the Nazis..........
"Slovik was the only American soldier executed for desertion"
You are correct. I wonder what the IQ was of the murderer's and rapists?
"Saving Private Slovik" didn't do too well at the box office......
Certain Irish hated the English more. They refused to help.
Yes Robert Fisk wrote an 800 page thesis on why Ireland stayed neutral.
Gunner said...
Despite what the people at the New York Times think, World War Two was not won by Social Justice Warriors and people who have wet dreams about UN bureaucracy
I have a different take.
The 1944 SJW was 19, wet and crouched in a Higgins boat approaching Dog Green beach on the West end of Omaha with A/1/116 IN
Unlike the US Cemeteries with golf course lawns, the Brit version looked like a cemetery from a village church.
The British have many small cemeteries in Belgium from WWI. I have visited a couple. They have a commission that replaces the monuments as they age or crack. The number of these cemeteries is staggering,.
There are a couple of photos of them in this post.
Certain Irish hated the English more. They refused to help.
There was a real crisis in 1914 as the Irish were threatening revolt and much of the higher command of the Army was Irish.
In one of those alternate history scenes, what if the Irish had revolted and the army high command did not respond, could the British have stayed out of WWI?
The Western Allies didn't "let" the Soviets take half of Europe. The Soviets conquered Eastern Europe using the Red Army, which was then one of the mightiest war machines ever assembled. The Red Army got to Eastern Europe first and there would no ousting it from that region short of waging a follow-on war with the USSR. The concessions at Yalta merely constituted an acknowledgment of the inevitable and unpreventable. Significantly, the Western Allies did enforce their writ on western Germany and Austria. The Soviets were compelled to withdraw from Austria and, as well, from Iran. And when, via local proxies, they tried to grab up Greece, we waged a successful counterinsurgency war, under the direction of the redoubtable General James van Fleet, that kept the birthplace of democracy in the Western orbit.
IIRC the French left untouched the bunkers and remains of the (mostly-fake) gun emplacements adjacent Pointe du Hoc; you see them as they were at war's end. In contrast the beaches are all completely clear of any anti-landing barriers and, of course, the mines.
What struck me at Pointe du Hoc were the size and depth of the craters surrounding the shattered concrete structures, and the charred timbers still visible inside the bunkers. It's hard to imagine surviving the massive explosions that caused all that destruction..
Looking down at the cliffs from the bunkers You come away with some understanding of how difficult it was to climb them and neutralize the point.
Horrific.
I read once Churchill offered de Valera rest of Ulster in return for joining the war but was rebuffed by the survivor of the Easter Rising. I think Churchill contemplated an occupation.
Who is this Chuck guy and why is he such a raving dick?
Chuck is an individual who pretends to be a life-long Republican of the "country club" sort who is an unrelenting Never-Trumper. However to those of us who have been immersed in Republican politics at the local level for any length of time it's not hard to catch him in contradictions and statements that don't completely jibe with his alleged online persona.
We note that at least one hardcore leftwing billionaire, Reid Hoffman, pays lefties to set up web sites pretending to be disgruntled Republicans who hate Trump. The hatred is real, but the politics of the web site owner are as phony as a three cent coin. That Reid Hoffman exists does not mean that he directly or indirectly pays Chuck, I merely note the existence of such efforts.
In that movie from WWI, "They Shall Not Grow Old," I was struck by how many soldiers had bad teeth or a lot of teeth missing.
Back in the 70's I saw a dentist who was responsible for setting up mobile dental clinics in WWII. He said that most kids from the South (in particular) had never seen a dentist before and needed tons of work on their teeth.
Max practiced until the day he died in his mid-eighties. He charged ridiculously low prices because he didn't need the money any more.
There's a German cemetery nearby as well. Very well kept up.
https://tinyurl.com/yxbcs3qp
A show on the National Geographic channel partially explained why Utah beach was comparatively easy while Omaha beach went into the history books as "Bloody Omaha." Neutralizing the German bunkers and strong points was assigned to high altitude bombers, B-24 Liberators, at Omaha versus medium bombers, B-26 Marauders, at Utah. Both beaches had cloud cover, so the B-24s scored exactly zero hits on German strong points (some bombs landed miles away) while the B-26s got below the clouds and hit nearly all of their assigned targets.
If true, it explains a lot.
In that movie from WWI, "They Shall Not Grow Old," I was struck by how many soldiers had bad teeth or a lot of teeth missing.
You should have seen the teeth on some of the guys in my Basic Training company, which was three wars after "They Shall Not Grow Old."
Thanks Chuck. Meanwhile POTUS interviewed with cemetery backdrop and issues his usual tired personal slurs of people back home he doesn't like. just Trump being Trump.
PS Big Mike you know Trump's doctor admitted faking the bone spurs.
"The irony of ironies:
1. The start of WWII (1939) -- those damnable Nazis have invaded Poland!
2. The end of WWII (1945) -- here, Uncle Joe, take Poland."
Were we really in a position to stop him?
Blogger readering said...
"See, just read hombre, easy".
Read? Read?
wholelottasplainin',
"You come away with some understanding of how difficult it was to climb them and neutralize the point."
Or as James E. Rudder said, looking up that cliff ten years later during a visit with his young son:
"Will you tell me how we did this? Anybody would be a fool to try this. It was crazy then, and it’s crazy now."
Michael, those "Irish" in positions of high command in the pre-World War I British army are properly known as Anglo-Irish, which is a far different breed of cat than your "green" (i.e., Catholic and Church of Ireland) Irish man or woman. They were members of the Protestant [Anglican] Ascendancy who had lived in Ireland for uncounted generations and who constituted a ruling elite who did not regard themselves as Irish per se, and who scrupulously remained aloof from the native population, whom they more or less despised. They were landlords and soldiers, holders of estates, and had a long tradition of providing Britain with many of their most famous and able military commanders. They constituted a virtual warrior caste, reflecting thereby their origins and motivations for settling in Ireland in the first place. They were absolutely loyal to the British crown and would never have thought of joining an Irish nationalist movement in a war to gain independence from Britain. Quite the contrary. See, in this regard, the history of the so-called Curragh Mutiny in County Kildare in 1914.
The Soviets took half of Poland in '39. In 45 they kept it. drago?
Ha. Fox blocked Althouse.
Blogger iowan2 said...
Did you see how miserable, and poorly dressed, he looked at the state dinner with the queen?
That's the true meaning of June 6th. For leftist's posting talking point...the fail to understand.
The Trump Presidency has so far exceeded almost every other President. Proof being the quality of the criticism.
And here I thought that the “true meaning” of this week was “washed out psycho Bette Midler.”
I am so glad that a true sufferer of the condition spoke up about his treatment.
Well thank you very much for the opportunity, Chuck. You didn't ask -- typical of your thoughtlessness -- but my feet are responding to treatment. The treatment consists of orthotic inserts for my shoes and mostly staying off my feet.
I received my induction notice in the last week of 1968 and took my step forward in January 1969, so I actually know a bit about the rules in effect then for draftees with medical conditions. If the medical condition is minor and will not affect the individual's ability to get through Basic Training (BCT) then he is inducted. Bone spurs would not be in that category, and I note that even at the height of World War II a lesser foot condition, flat feet, was deemed to be disqualifying for service. If the medical condition was treatable, then the individual had two options: (1) accept induction with a medical profile that limited what you were allowed to do, or (2) accept a 1-Y deferment. In the case of bone spurs the profile would limit the amount of standing one could be required to do, and the distance one could walk. Also, probably, no combat boots. Do I need to say that soldiers with profiles like that were not exactly desired in their units by sergeants and company grade officers.
Before you scoff at the profile I described above, I was aware of a soldier during my time of service who had a profile that limited his walking/marching to 100 yards and I knew of other soldiers who had profiles forbidding them from wearing combat boots.
And here I thought that the “true meaning” of this week was “washed out psycho Bette Midler.”
That too. Trump is good at multi-tasking.
Since you bring up the state dinner, I note that Chris Steele seems to have cut a deal. Going to be interesting to see what he has to say.
PS Big Mike you know Trump's doctor admitted faking the bone spurs.
That would be a bit of a challenge since back then one would have to bring proof of the medical condition (x-rays of the bone spurs) and the Army's doctors could, and generally did, confirm medical conditions with their own tests.
Big Mike awards readering five Pinocchios.
Good theory Big Mike. Not what happened.
I'm tired of WWII being the only war that can be viewed and celebrated as unequivocally good.
If I was to put on my tinfoil hat, I would suspect that is related to Jewish people being targeted for extinction and then afterwards rising to the highest echelons of the industries that shape the culture (you cannot seriously and honestly suggest that Jewish folks are not over-represented in the arts and media relative to their number in the general population). What other historical mass death gets a Hollywood movie every year other than the Holocaust? Pol Pot's Cambodia? Nope. 1930's Ukraine? Nope. 1915 Armenia? Nope. China under Mao? Nope. 1990's Sierra Leone? Nope. USSR's Gulag archipelago? Nope.
What can I say? Seeing the response to Omar and Tlaib's pretty mild criticism of Israel was eye-opening.
@readering
I'm sure you were just as vocal about you outrage against those that game or avoid the draft back in 1992 and 1996....right?
I don't get the Left attacking Trump as a Draft dodger...I thought those guys were your heroes.
People say we could have used abomb threat to dislodge Soviets. But we used them on the New Mexicans and Japanese. Didn't even test the uranium design. Not enough uranium for that.
That was half of all the Jews in Europe, matt, and probably 80% of all in the world
What's with all the media praise for Trump's speech. It was fake sincere bunch of cliches. Not Trump's strength.
A string of apposite zingers would have been the way to go. On the theme of world leaders have never been worth shit and millions pay the price.
Even now they're forming a deep state undermining everything. You can't fire them except in exceptional circumstances and at heavy cost.
Garhrie: no just get angry at folks who demean those that served like McCain and Kerry.
McCain was a professional soldier following the course of least resistance.
I wonder if the media are praising Trump's speech to induce him to give moreuninspiring speeches.
Not what happened.
I was a draftee in that time frame. I know what the rules were.
How is it you aren't dead because a brain as weak as yours forgot to tell your lungs to breathe?
We had a third bomb, but we were going to target with it, the siviets killed some 20 million of their own
I think hes sincere, he just feels the French do not share their appreciation over out sacrifice often enough.
matt take Jews out of the equation for a second and you are still left with WW2 being an event like no other in modern history. The most valid criticism of the Dday hoopla is that in some ways it was just another day of death and destruction worldwide.
that served like McCain and Kerry.
Kerry ????? You mean traitor Kerry ?
This John Kerry?
What was the closest thing to a recent world war 2 movie recently, a Zambie slasher film called overlord,
About half of the French were firmly for us, among those in the resistance probably 30% were communists.
"Didn't even test the uranium design. Not enough uranium for that."
No one doubted that it would work.
@Roughcoat,
The Western Allies didn't "let" the Soviets take half of Europe. The Soviets conquered Eastern Europe using the Red Army, which was then one of the mightiest war machines ever assembled.
Good points, but disagree.
After Hitler invaded Soviets in 6/41, they were toast. The only thing that saved them (besides the weather) was our re-directing all that lend-lease money from the Brits to the Soviets. We saved their bacon.
@Original Mike,
Were we really in a position to stop him?
Probably not fully stop. But probably we could have done more to resist. Dropping two nuke on Japan, certainly prevented the Soviets from interceding there. Patton understood how evil the Commies were on the ground.
The Soviets did intercede in Japanese Empire and many historians view that as a bigger factor in surrender than our abombs.
Blogger Gahrie said...
@readering
I'm sure you were just as vocal about you outrage against those that game or avoid the draft back in 1992 and 1996....right?
I don't get the Left attacking Trump as a Draft dodger...I thought those guys were your heroes.
Haha.
That won’t work on me. First, I’m not part of any left wing that protested the military or supported draft dodgers. They weren’t my heroes. Although I’d have to confess that somebody who openly and publicly protested the draft, like Cassius Clay as he was then known, had a lot more guts and integrity than Trump did. Young Trump could have said that war was immoral and wrong and he would have no part of it. Trump never did anything like that.
Second, while this issue isn’t troublesome for me, it is for Trump as long as Trump is trying to make a political career out of his personal support for and belief in the military.
They were members of the Protestant [Anglican] Ascendancy who had lived in Ireland for uncounted generations and who constituted a ruling elite
Sorry, I was unclear then. The "Anglo-Irish" were concerned about the possibility of an uprising that they would have to put down . I just read that the other day, probably in Massie's "Dreadnaught."
He eventually did have to act against the "Easter Rising in 1916.
Kerry served with distinction and then put his reputation on the line to try to end a war Clinton and Bush and Trump just avoided (with Trump the most shameless about it).
Yeah, reason uranium design preferred, but too slow to make the key ingredient in sufficient quantity.
Speaking of rules, still a lot murky about bush's air national Guard service. But hey, rules!
John Kerry defamed every man and woman who served in Vietnam, and has carried water for the enemy of three continents most recently with regards to Iran
Second, while this issue isn’t troublesome for me, it is for Trump as long as Trump is trying to make a political career out of his personal support for and belief in the military.
Only among those who stopped supporting him the minute he ran as a Republican.
“Patton understood how evil the Commies were on the ground”
Which is apparently why he apparently wanted to keep his 3rd Army moving east after the German surrender.
I entered the fray when MayBee, in the fifth comment no less, used the lessons of D-Day to criticize the modern woman.
I took MayBee's comment as an expression of awe at the magnitude of the sacrifice made by the soldiers of D-Day, and pointing out the apparent lack of appreciation of it by so many today, given the relatively trivial issues that get them marching in the streets. Feminists being just one example.
Knowing when to keep your mouth shut, - Freder
Try it sometime.
John Kerry, the only Democratic nominee my Republican navy vet dad ever voted for.
"Seeing Bad Orange Man Trump as a tin pot dictator is a silly panic reaction to his ending the continual state of wars that has been the life blood that the Deep State and CIA under Bush/Clinton/Bush/Obama live by while they remain wealthy off their worldwide trafficking in Drugs and children."
Trump has not ended any wars (to the contrary, it seems we may be gearing up for a war against Iran), or in any way interfered with the Deep State.
Listen up. Wellington was referred to once as Irish, and said, "A man may be born in a stable, but that doesn't make him a horse."
I'm going to be charitable about some observations here re: Jewish influence, and just assume ignorance and lack of clear thinking rather than actual malice. Number one, if Jews have disproportionate influence in our culture, how do we correct that? Two, Jews didn't assume leadership and become overrepresented (who is counting?) after all that shit, they were in that position in the USA, Russia, Germany, and other European countries before it--modernity itself is coterminous if not identical to the emancipation of the Jews and their freedom to emigrate here.
But oddly, the relative obsession with the Holocaust has a sort of penumbra, in which WWII becomes ABOUT the Jews and the Holocaust. Nope, nobody and noone made war on the Nazis because they were bad for the Jews (except some Jews and individual idealists). Every anti-Nazi nation that counted went to war for traditional and entirely justifiable reasons.
Narr
And neutrals stayed out for the same
"I was a draftee in that time frame. I know what the rules were."
But I read it on the internet!!
----
Regarding President Trump's speech: I'm guessing, but I doubt if he writes many of these formal speeches himself. He gives a good delivery of them though and is getting better. Can any of the historians here name modern Presidents who wrote most of their own formal speeches? FDR, Reagan?
Regarding his European visit: By honest, (yeah, I know) accounts he did an good job in England of promoting American interests. I do think he misspelled a word in a tweet though, and his attire could have been better I hear, so maybe not that great.
And since I didn't get a chance on Memorial day, thanks to all vets. I am truly appreciative. Even when I don't agree with the politics or stated goals. Thank you. My father and FIL both served in the Pacific. Some pretty horrific jungle tales from FIL.
OK, Lend Lease. (A-bombs later.) We didn't save the Reds in 1941, began being helpful in 1942, were fairly important in 1943, and PAY ATTENTION this will be on the test:
L-L aid made it possible for the USSR to fight a modern war. It did not merely hasten their inevitable victory, as some grudgingly concede. Nope, it provided the logistical, material, and commo wherewithal for the talented Russian strategists (once the Boss got out of the way) to beat the blitzkriegers at their own game. Without the 1200 heavy locomotives, hundreds of thousands of jeeps and trucks, hi-octane aviation fuel, and plentiful and reliable radios, and much else, they would have been fighting like Kutuzov, but with a few (pretty good) tanks and planes.
Narr
Stay tuned for more history updates
so when the Iranian provide weapons to the Houthis (in the same manner they trained Hezbollah and the shia militias in Iraq) and one responds that is not starting a new war,
Lenin's officer corps, allowed German officers to train in the Soviet Union, in order to evade the Versailles restrictions, the story goes the Abwehr headed by General Canaris, played Stalin suggesting those same officers were plotting a coup, more likely Stalin used it as a pretext to challenge any rival,
"They won the survival of our civilization."
Temporarily.
Hitler rather explicitly argued in Mein Kampf for the extermination of Jews, Slavs, Gypsies et al, it's sort of the meat of the book, and he followed through with it,
still a lot murky about bush's air national Guard service. But hey, rules!
Hilarious. readering apparently saw the Movie "Truth" and bought it lock, stock and barrel.
You cannot be that stupid after all these years, so you are apparently trolling.
Getting tired of the whole D-day nonsense. Sorry. 110,000 Americans killed fighting the Japanese. More Americans killed at Pearl Harbor than D-day.
D-Day wasn't even the most important battle in June 1994. The most important was the attack on Army Group Centre by the USSR. From June 1944-Nov 1944, the Soviets killed, captured and disabled 2 Germans for every German lost in France against the Allies.
Even if D-Day had failed, we would have won the war anyway. It was the unnecessary invasion. But if the Japs had sunk all the US carriers at Midway while losing 1, instead of the other way round. That would've had a MASSIVE impact on the war. The Japs would've ran wild in the Pacific, with only 2 US carriers to stop them.
Kerry did not "serve honorably." You just liked the Ho Che Minh side, like he did.
Both President Macron and President Trump gave excellent speeches that hit all of the right notes. I know that the latter makes some people unhappy. I'm fine with that. They deserve to be unhappy.
(eaglebeak)
My father served in World War II (European theater) and his father served in World War I (in what was then the U.S. Army Air Service).
Both of them would have known that when you celebrate the 75th anniversary of an astonishing effort like D-Day, you certainly bring in the President as the representative of the country--a representative who also is, after all, the Commander-in-Chief.
Commenters on here may hate Trump, but the fact is, Trump's Commander-in-Chief and they're not When they get elected President, they can meet with the Queen (or King) and make their remarks to a global audience. Until then, their audience is us.
We could've stayed out of the war in Europe and limited our involvement to Lend-lease and the Air Force, and it would've ended the same. The Soviets needed our trucks and raw materials, the Brits needed some help in the Air, and our landing craft. They could've done the job without us.
OTOH, we were the only ones fighting the Japanese. Putting the pacific war "on hold" from Jan 1942 to June 1943, allowed the Nips to dig in and increase aircraft production. it cost us a lot of lives later on in 1944-45.
More Americans killed at Pearl Harbor than D-day.
Not true but without D Day, the Soviets would have had all Europe.
I think they probably would have won without the invasion but the bombing and Lend Lease were indispensable.
I don't like Kerry. Look up "Asshole" in the Dictionary and you'll see his picture. BUT he did serve in Vietnam and he was wounded (slightly). He got a bunch of medals and earned one of them. but that's more than most his kind did in the war.
"Not true"
We lost 2400 KIA at Pearl Harbor. How many KIA did the US army lose on june 6, 1944?
Per UK Telegraph we lost 1,465 on D-day (Omaha and Utah Beach + Airborne)
"We" = USA.
College students should NEVER have gotten a deferment during Vietnam war. But Trump got his like everyone else. Then got diagnosed with bone spurs and that's that. Good grief, even if he'd been drafted, do you really think Trump would've ended up in combat? He would've gotten put in Intelligence or "The Finance Corps" or rear echelon job.
Clinton = draft dodger. Mondale/Dukakais - too young for Korea, too old for Vietnam. Bush = National Guard. Romney = Mormon Mission (LOL). Hillary = Female. Obama = too young. Biden? Deferred. Just like Trump.
Gore went to Vietnam. But I think mostly with the press outfit.
Casualty figures on DDay very sketchy on all sides. Keegan estimates US deaths at 2500.
Long knows that the Foundation’s list isn’t complete, but says that it’s the best figure that we have to date. Of the 4,414 Allied deaths on June 6th, 2,501 were Americans and 1,913 were Allies.
https://www.history.com/news/d-day-casualties-deaths-allies
College students should NEVER have gotten a deferment during Vietnam war.
This is what poisoned the college faculties. Leftist students stayed in college to avoid the draft, got PhDs and then selected leftist students as PhD candidates in their turn.
"Gore went to Vietnam. But I think mostly with the press outfit."
Although nearly all of his Harvard classmates avoided the draft and service in Vietnam, Gore believed if he found a way around military service, he would be handing an issue to his father's Republican opponent. According to Gore's Senate biography, "He appeared in uniform in his father's campaign commercials, one of which ended with his father advising: 'Son, always love your country'."Despite this, Gore Sr. lost the election.
Gore was stationed with the 20th Engineer Brigade in Bien Hoa and was a journalist with The Castle Courier.[39] He received an honorable discharge from the Army in May 1971
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