१३ मे, २०१९
"I may be a part of the LGBTQ community but being a gay man doesn't even tell me what it's like to be a trans woman of color in that same community, let alone an undocumented mother of four or a disabled veteran or displaced autoworker."
Said Pete Buttigieg at Las Vegas Human Rights Campaign Gala at Caesars Palace in Las Vegas the other day. I got the quote from the full transcript here, via "Pete Buttigieg on the problem with 'identity politics'" at my son John's blog. John asks "Could this be Pete Buttigieg's Sister Souljah moment?"
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१०९ टिप्पण्या:
It's a political correctness competition now.
If you're a member of the LGBTQ community you don't know anything at all.
It sounds like the opposite of a Sister Souljah moment to me.
I have to admit I do not really understand the whole trans situation. But if he's acknowledging we can't know what it's like to be someone of a different gender or life, how can a person know they are a woman trapped in a man's body? How can you know what a woman feels like?
This will win him all the shitty flyover states for sure!
What does any of this have to do with being Commander-in-Chief, President of the United States and Leader of the Free World?
He's correct - none of us can know exactly what it feels like to be in someone else's shoes, even if they are in the same groups as us. But will the various Democratic sects let him get away with saying that?
Here's a secret. Everyone but Joe and Bernie are running for VP. The hope is that SleepyCreepyJoe wins and then kicks the bucker. Then hello President Pete or President Amy or President Kamala.
One more small step further would lead to the realization that "the smallest minority on earth is the individual."
It tells me he's smart enough to see identity politics are a trap. It doesn't tell me whether he's figured a way out of the trap, especially since his identity is the only reason we're aware of his existence.
"It sounds like the opposite of a Sister Souljah moment to me."
Well, yeah, if you just read the one quote!
John has a longer excerpt and better context.
I just quoted the line that made me laugh (as I listened to the video). Something about the word "even" struck me as hilarious.
This has a great deal to do with being the President of a leadership caste that is devoted to this religion.
Has one Democratic candidate uttered a single word about foreign policy? Can any of them find Russia on a map?
I am amazed every time I read this incredibly stupid assertion that humans are incapable of communicating with one another.
Yes, we can understand the experience of another person, even one less fortunate than ourselves.
Things are changing. Our country is being buffeted by extraordinary change–tectonic change–some of it good as so many people in this room can attest. Some of it very, very, challenging especially for people in industrial communities like mine who have found not just their income but their identity disrupted.
I wonder what the heck he's talking about here? How can someone have their identity disrupted? I mean, you can have you're identity stolen, but how can one's identity be "disrupted" by an external agent?
If you keep doing the particularity of identity, you end up with: we're all individuals and we all only know our own point of view. Then what? If you're doing politics, you have to choose of a level of specificity or generality. Do the LGBTQ group belong together or not?
Doesn’t he know it’s not “LGBT” but “2SLGBTQQIA”? What a phobic hater he must be!
Sadly, this is probably the order of concern for modern politically-correct pols:
-Trans women of color
-Undocumented mother of 4
-Disabled veteran
-Displaced auto worker
Thought the last on that list might be a Deplorable, in which case fuck 'em.
"we're all individuals and we all only know our own point of view. "
What a novel concept.
"I may be a part of the LGBTQ community but ...
Thank you for sharing your ideas with the class, Peter.
"The smallest minority on earth is the individual."
Sadly, this is probably the order of concern for modern politically-correct pols:
"Wokemon points"
To begin with one must throw out any fantasy about sincerity.
Emotions always serve more concrete interests.
In tribal wars it is all about who is to be master.
Which clan or caste makes decisions and levies tribute.
Mike Pence would beg to differ with his self congratulatory pandering!
Buttigiggig's self-righteousness leaves me cold.
I can certainly understand what it's like to be one of the left's designated victims.
That doesn't necessarily mean that I endorse their bitch.
And that's what the identity con artists really mean... you don't understand them if you don't endorse their bitch.
That headline sounds like it came from a parody account.
How many cats does Buttuvwxyz own?
Er....I mean, how many cats is Buttuvwxyz raising?
Perhaps Pete is trying to suction up the part of the left that is saying, "We've gone too far with identity politics".
But, like the Titanic, even if you see the iceberg 200 yards away, the impact is inevitable.
Plus, it rings hollow to me to hear that we should not be divided by the differences in the LGBTQ spectrum while he is trumpeting, "I'm different,I'm gay! Oppose me and you are a hater!"
OK, I've clicked to John's blog but have yet to read the full transcript.
At his blog, he quotes Barack Obama:
" Democracy demands [that] we're able also to get inside the reality of people who are different than us so we can understand their point of view."
I completely disagree with that! Democracy demands no such thing! Our Constitutional Democracy doesn't demand we get inside the reality of other people. It simply demands we don't impede on their rights.
So basically stating that he doesn't know sh*t but he wants our vote to be president.
He knows his place.
@PeteButtigieg's comments critical of what he forthrightly calls "white identity politics." Again, a truism from one perspective, and forcefully stated too. But to some on the Identitarian Left, this will come off as a bad case of "false equivalence."
I tell folks on the Left all the time: You can be for Identity Politics OR against white nationalism, you can't be both. Not sure if that is what he saying here.
Then there's this from last August:
Harris blasts critics of 'identity politics'
“I have a problem, guys, with that phrase, ‘identity politics,’” Harris told the progressive gathering Netroots Nation, wading into a messaging debate roiling Democrats ahead of the midterm elections. “Because let’s be clear, when people say that, it’s a pejorative. That phrase is used to divide, and it is used to distract. Its purpose is to minimize and marginalize issues that impact all of us. It is used to try and shut us up.”
"these divisive lines of thinking have even entered into the consciousness of my own party"
Yes, "even" is funny there: his party created these divisive lines, tries to reinforce and exploit them.
Even prog Sister Souljah moments are phony: he's pandering even as he tries to be less crazy.
The transwoman of color autoworker: yeah, that's our pressing national problem.
Progressive moment is a flawed construct. Yesterdays progress is today's evil and today's progress is nervana.
Mayor Pete, The fact that none of us can know the challenges for others in our diverse communities is an excellent argument against centralized big government, and therefore an argument against voting for you or any other Democrat. Thank you, sir.
Do the LGBTQ group belong together or not?
The common thread among the L's, B's, G's, etc. is that we were all -- at one time or another -- sexual outlaws.
But as that outlaw status has diminished or even disappeared, the political activists cannot admit to victory. To keep the fervor alive, they must constantly find new minorities to bring into the fold and try to convince the rest of us that our condition is still just as precarious.
Mayor Pete, The fact that none of us can know the challenges for others in our diverse communities is an excellent argument against centralized big government...
It's also an excellent argument against having diverse communities.
CJinPA quoting Harris: “Because let’s be clear, when people say that, it’s a pejorative. That phrase is used to divide, and it is used to distract.
That "clear" thing is reaching drinking-game frequency, isn't it?
"Divide" and its variants ("divisive" "divides us", etc.) is yet another prog synonym for "disagree".
Buttigieg is in the transgender spectrum. Still, he recognizes the fatal flaws of the diversity doctrine or color judgment including racism, sexism, genderism, etc.
Progressive moment is a flawed construct. Yesterdays progress is today's evil
Yes, progress is monotonic, unqualified change, including the wicked solution (i.e. selective-child or planned child), great leaps, social security, nuclear power, social justice, selective exclusion ("="), diversity (e.g. racism), Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Cooling, Warming, Climate Change, etc. The other popular perceptions are recorded through inferential treatment influenced by political congruence.
". . . by recognizing that the one thing we do have in common may be the challenge of belonging in a society that sees us for what makes us all different."
This is literally nonsense. It describes everyone, and therefore no one. The one thing that All Americans have in common, by definition, is that they are Americans.
This is interesting to me because I have never understood why gay men are lumped into a umbrella group with transgenders. The only similarity between the two is that many transgenders could, depending on your perspective, be considered gay. Likewise many could be considered straight. The point is, sexual orientation and gender identity are two very different things, and (for now at least) gender dysphoria is a recognized mental illness. So I feel bad for transgenders because they must be living a miserable experience. They want to be "fixed." Proud gay men do not want to be fixed.
Pick any American at random. Are that person's interests identical to mine?
Obviously not. You would think that Buttigieg would realize that it is insane to believe that every American has the same interests, and those just happen to be his interests, as well.
I can't believe Mayor Buttiplug doesn't personally understand the 'lived experience' of every single person in the country - all 320 million of them! And he calls himself a leader!
For shame!
Buttigieg is being insufficiently woke on the abbreviation there. It's now supposed to be something like LGBTIQQA with some versions even longer. Andrew Sullivan once remarked, 10+ years ago at least, that the growing abbreviation was beginning to resemble a Croatian surname. I have long argued that the "T" in LGBT needed to be dropped, as there is no real logical connection between sexual orientation and sexual identity. Non-overlapping magisteria, to borrow a phrase of Stephen Jay Gould.
As for identity politics, they have become inevitable since the Civil Rights era. The US carved out special protections for the descendants of black Africans brought against their will and systemically oppressed as a form of historical recompense. The problem, though, was that since then, women, gays, and recently arrived ethnic minorities have all lined up for their share of the affirmative action trough. And hence, the DNC has become the party largely of single women and sexual and ethnic minorities. It is built from top to bottom on identity politics, And there's only one thing that hangs such an oddball assortment together: whipping up hatred against the evil straight white male.
Of course, when you read the entirety of his comments, he's mostly regurgitating all the familiar progressive talking points about various identity groups. This shit is basically de rigueur nowadays among Democrats. It's sort of unbelievable how much they pander and make explicit racial and other identity-based appeals. They think they're being so high-minded or altruistic, but in reality it's corrosive and only encourages whites, especially heterosexual whites, to think of themselves as a discrete group whose interests need to be protected and represented in government.
This is the foreseeable consequence of modern Democratic Party politics. If you think Trump is bad, the identity politics of the Left will make the badness of some of his supporters worse. Many otherwise normal people will feel aggrieved. They'll become more aware of their whiteness and the fact that a lot of people are very hostile to them because of it.
CNN: Mr Buttigieg, will you choose a trans-gender to be your running mate? OR a woman?"
"I er think... it's time women were given their due so I intend to -
MSNBC: So you're saying trans-gendered are NOT women?
ABC: If you really think it's time for women, why not step aside?
(orders more popcorn)
The LBGBQ community, the Black community, the Hispanic community ..... funny, I can't find any of these communities on my maps. GPS is no help either.
"Do the LGBTQ group belong together or not?"
The feminists and lesbians are NOT getting along with trans men.
The feminists because of male competition in women's athletics.
The lesbians I forget why.
The problem with dividing people into warring tribes should be obvious. They are creating the Frankenstein that will shatter the Democrat party. If the GOP is smart, they'll find ways to exacerbate the rifts that are forming.
Intersectionality too. Minority feminists have taken a few swings at white feminists.
are "C', 'H','N' and/or 'S' earmarked, or are they reserved?
And just like party affiliation designation ie: John Doe(D)
should candidates also include their Sexual Identity Designator also?
It's a contrived community. Each letter by itself would be inconsequential.
Dave Begley said...
Here's a secret. Everyone but Joe and Bernie are running for VP.
I think Buttigieg is going for a cabinet position.
Would It Kill You?
"While I can't speak to the experiences of trans-genders, women, blacks, the undocumented and other oppressed minorities, I would like to..."
- cash this check
- buy two tickets in the orchestra section
- get a half-dozen cannoli, etc
Well, some kudos to Mayor Pete.
There is no thing as an "LGBTQ community" except as an uneasy political alliance between some very disparate identity groups. Certainly, "T" is far different from any of the others.
LGBQ involve people of a clear sexual identity, who have various preferences in sex partners.
T is vastly different.
That's without even getting intersectional about it.
Buttigieg’s supporters have been energized by the notion that as a Democratic, Midwest mayor in a conservative state who speaks fluently about his faith,
This is an odd framing. Last week he claimed people who think differently than he aren't good Christians which from anyone on the right would be labelled offensive. But from a left winger the media frames it as "fluent" giving it a positive connotation while eliminating the details so readers cannot evaluate for themselves.
This is how the game is played.
Buttigieg also called out Trump on several occasions, saying that many of the objections to identity politics “come from the right, which is ironic at this time because the current administration has mastered the practice of the most divisive form of such politics, which is white identity politics, designed to drive apart people with common interests.”
All identity politics is designed to drive divisions so it's revealing Buttigieg solely opposes "white identity politics". As Scott Alexander would say he's in favor of understanding everything except the out-group.
A summary of his position is that everyone else should pull together to attack people who deserve our hate based on their skin color. It's bizarre people think this is a positive message but I suppose by comparison to other Dems it is.
It doesn't tell me whether he's figured a way out of the trap, especially since his identity is the only reason we're aware of his existence.
His plan seems to be applying identity politics to non-Dems/leftists while ruling them off limits between Democrats. It's nakedly political but it's refreshingly honest. It could work if the media can successfully obscure his true beliefs and convince the apolitical public he's against identity politics generally.
LBGTQ is a spectrum (label and judgment) of individuals (e.g. homosexuals) with transgender physical and/or mental (e.g. sexual orientation) attributes. Buttigieg is being noticeably Pro-Choice or "=" about this left-wing popular conception.
should candidates also include their Sexual Identity Designator also?
A complete specification includes sex: male or female, and gender: masculine, feminine, or transgender. This and other diversity attributes are already required (i.e. discriminated) for purposes of employment and benefits.
["these divisive lines of thinking have even entered into the consciousness of my own party"]
Yes, "even" is funny there: his party created these divisive lines, tries to reinforce and exploit them.
Even prog Sister Souljah moments are phony: he's pandering even as he tries to be less crazy.
Something this accurate makes a "ding!" sound in my head.
This reminds me of Allan Bloom's view of "open-mindedness," which is essentially that as practiced it produces the opposite of what it intends, an inability to think critically at all.
Or as G.K. Chesterton wrote, "An open mind is like an open mouth; its function being to close upon something solid."
Mayor Pete is the king of saying something is wrong to do and then doing it, often in the same sentence.
Let's play a game called "Would we even know him/her if he/ she wasn't" ...
1/2 black- Barack Obama?
Gay - Mayor Pete?
Black - Stacy Abrams?
1/132 Indian- Eliz Warren?
President of a leadership caste that is devoted to this religion
It's all relative with secular incentives, interests, and motives. Perhaps a behavioral protocol that is a quasi-religion or ethics (e.g. Pro-Choice - selective and opportunistic, circumstantial).
So, when is sex relevant? When is gender relevant? When is color relevant? When are they... each significant? For leadership, employment, benefits, opportunities, etc.
"...a gay man doesn't even tell me what it's like to be a trans woman of color in that same community, let alone an undocumented mother of four or a disabled veteran or displaced autoworker."
Johnny Carson did cavalcade of identities just like this...
The 'Boot-Edge-Edge' of Wetness
we're all individuals and we all only know our own point of view. Then what?
True. I only "know" my own point of view. Although my own point of view changes and has changed over time. That 18 year old me is vastly different from the older me of today.
Even though we only know our own point of view, we can try to guess how another person in different circumstances might feel. Guess...is the operative word. We cannot know.
Plus, in the Identity Politics Game, we are supposed to suppose that everyone who is in X group all feel and think the same thing.
This is patently false. People who are 'grouped' such as inner city black male, suburban female, hispanic, male homosexual, transgender or any of the multitudes of fractured groups, are comprised of individuals who have maybe similar life experiences, but mostly NOT. Being part of a group doens't make you identical.
How about we DO treat people as individuals instead of pigeon holing them into a group that they may not actually feel any affinity towards.
It's simple. There are only two politically relevant types of people: those who practice identity politics and those who don't.
But from a left winger the media frames it as "fluent" giving it a positive connotation while eliminating the details so readers cannot evaluate for themselves.
They did the same thing with Kerry in 2004. An avid anti-war advocate during Vietnam suddenly becomes "Reporting for duty!" because he served in combat for a few months.
Doesn't work.
Blogger Henry said...
I think Buttigieg is going for a cabinet position.
--
Out of the closet, into the cabinet.
A person who runs for POTUS on the basis of his bedroom (living room, kitchen, bathroom) antics is a non-starter. Petey does it every day, it seems to be his sole and only issue. Really, who gives a damn. Nobody cares about my proclivities in the bedroom or backseat of a Chevy (front seat of the Tesla while on autopilot).
We should be interested in: CoC issues, when and where to prosecute war and peace and how to best serve the U.S. with the blood of our youth, or whether to spill the blood of our youth at all; Economic issues, treaty issues; energy issues; national infracture issues, and many more concerns not listed here (lest Ann moderates me out for length). Petey's "on the sheets" activities are none of anyone's damn business.
As for the DNC candidates, only one has expressed opinions that on issues that are relevant. That would be Bernie. I detest his politics, his opinions infuriate me, but at least he is bold enough to address the issues, so that one could vote for or against him with knowledge of what he intends to foist upon us. The rest of them, to date, are milqwue toast, wishy-washy, "I'll think about that" persons. Then there's Petey, "I'm gay", "I'm queer", "I can't imagine how a black tranny feels" (paraphrasing}, so "vote for me".
Are the majority of the American voters so frigging stupid? I think not, at least this time.
Since Pete is the Wife, maybe his Husband is telling him how it’s gonna be. EVEN gays can have a traditional patriarchy....
"If you keep doing the particularity of identity, you end up with: we're all individuals and we all only know our own point of view. Then what?"
Well, that's the basic problem when someone says "Speaking a a [identity], ..." Because the assumption is that only one who shares your identity could understand what follows, it seems only logical that those who do not share your identity may as well ignore whatever you have to say. After all, they wouldn't understand anyway.
But as intersectional analysis produces ever-more identities (at all the intersections), this "speaking as a" becomes increasingly futile, as the probability that anyone who might be listening to you and who also might comprehend what you're saying approaches the probability of finding a molecule of the active ingredient in a massively diluted homeopathic remedy.
Yet because there are prizes and other rewards associated with victimization hierarchies, many continue to insist they are "speaking as a [identity]." Even as the number of potentially comprehending listeners inexorably approaches zero.
I was wondering if John Althouse Cohen got the idea for calling it a “Sister Souljah moment” from Walter Olson’s column at The Bulwark, with the nearly-same headline?
https://thebulwark.com/mayor-petes-sister-souljah-moment/
@ Chuck
Why didn't you just check the time stamps? Olson's column was posted today at 11:27 AM.
Lol. Not the fucking Bulwark again.
But what about the ABCDEFGIJKL community which disagrees?
BTW, what does the "Q" stand for? "Questionable"?
Sometimes, I think Gay people don't realize how small a minority they are - and how indifferent the rest of society is.
No one really cares what Butt-edge-edge does in the Bedroom or whether he thinks the LBGTQ " Community"has gone "too far" or "Not far enough".
GQLBT Community. People who read GQ magazine while eating a bacon, lettuce, and tomato Sandwich.
We know it doesn’t stand for “quiet.”
cant imagine what group will stake out the "Ellemeno-P" section of the alphabet.
Are 26 letters going to be enough to handle the expansion?
Thanks to Comrade LLR for the reference to the Walter Olson column, which strains to promote Mayor Buttigieg as some kind of bold, fearless defier of his host organization the Human Rights Campaign, which Olson accurately and sardonically calls "the House That Identity Politics Built."
Olson fails (unexpectedly?) to sustain the hype. "Again and again in his speech, minor choices of wording that outsiders might not notice served as small—but real—signals of defiance to social justice scorekeepers. I disagree with much that Mayor Pete says here and elsewhere. But I’m glad that he seems to think for himself."
"Seems" is the great weasel word here, seeing in those "small—but real—signals of defiance" something other than another run-of-the-mill leftist jockeying for position in the fetid swamp of Democratic presidential politics. After all, actually thinking for oneself is a fatal flaw there.
So Olson is plagiarizing jaltcoh...
@Chuck -- Did you read JAC's column? He will tell you the answer.
It's odd how identity politics lead the people who claim to reject identity politics to be obsessed with people's identity politics. The conservative comments on Buttigieg's low-key centrist-left outsider candidacy read like Eric Idle's lines in Monty Python Nudge Nudge sketch.
A nod's as good as a wink to a blind bat.
What, me worry?
This season of the Dem reality show is as interesting as the NYT "hear my issues as a" story stream.
St. Pete has chosen “The High Road” as his faux default position. Watch it melt.
We were warned that diversity a.k.a. "identity politics" including racism, sexism, etc. breeds adversity. And now it has evolved as political congruence ("=") or selective exclusion under the State-established Pro-Choice religion. Monotonically divergent.
President Clinton was not sincere with his pretense of distancing himself from the radical wing of his party. It was a mask he wore to get elected, and which probably covers nothing but greed and personal ambition.
This could be seen during his wife's recent election campaign, when both he and his wife repudiated pretty much all centrist positions they held 20 years ago. That stuff polled well 20-30 years ago, in the general election. Different positions are needed now.
Same for President Obama, who was supposedly against gay marriage before he embraced it.
This sort of "moment" is meant solely for public consumption and should be taken with a boulder of salt. If people are not terminally stupid, there will never be another Sister Souljah moment.
Chuck: I was wondering if John Althouse Cohen got the idea for calling it a “Sister Souljah moment” from Walter Olson’s column at The Bulwark, with the nearly-same headline?
Bleh: Why didn't you just check the time stamps? Olson's column was posted today at 11:27 AM.
Awkward. Hey Chuck, do you now wonder instead if Olson "got the idea for calling it a Sister Souljah moment from Cohen's column with nearly the same headline?
Or are you going to drop this like a hot potato now the is looks as if the "Bulwark" (LOL!) stole from Cohen and not the other way around?
Show us those LLR principles again.
Chuck is one of the six people who read The Bulwark, and five of the others write for it.
Meanwhile, ignored by everyone, John Ray wins the thread. Who cares about identity politics? I want to know their foreign policy principles, their economic principles, and which foreign powers are financing their campaigns.
Everything else is inessential.
Well Bill,
When the host's pic of an article addresses those areas, you will see more discussion of them.
"Who cares about identity politics?"
Everyone, ultimately.
That's the nature of identity politics. You will be made to care, one way or another.
Identity politics is the foundation matter of politics, your tribe against his tribe.
Details of policy only matter if the question of identity is settled, that is, when all have the same identity. Because until that is settled these are all quibbles.
The term 'undocumented' makes it sound like just a careless bureaucratic slip-up. Anyone using that term should be written off as a scumbag.
John Ray projects. That's what baffles me -- the sexual fantasies projected upon the gay man. Buttigieg isn't talking about his bedroom antics. He seems to have an utterly prosaic personal life. No one is being "made to care" to use buwaya's term. He's a inexperienced guy with a college resume running as a center-left democrat in a crowded field.
Are these really the strongest candidates you could field if you were trying to capture enough fly over rubes in Ohio, Florida and Michigan? And forget about the South, they would have nothing to do with any of these koo koo birds. It reminds me of when Mondale picked Geraldine Ferraro because, why not? He didn't have a snowballs chance in hell against Reagan in 84'might as well throw a hail mary. If the economy keeps going strong why on earth would you trade horses and take a chance on any of these 20 democratic dipshits?
Hes an utterly blanc mange candidate, like the mayor of Irvine who ran in 1988, when orange county was solidly red.
At his blog, he quotes Barack Obama:
" Democracy demands [that] we're able also to get inside the reality of people who are different than us so we can understand their point of view."
Lololol
I thought those were bitter clingers clinging to their guns and religion?
I’ll bite: I only want to help people.
It's Sista Souljah, for goodness' sake!
It's Sistah Souljah, for goodness' sake!
Liquor, guns, bacon, and titties. It doesn't get more all-American than that.
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