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२३९ टिप्पण्या:
239 पैकी 1 – 200 नवीन› नवीनतम»Mr. McConnell said the president would take action after signing a bill to keep the government open but not fund his wall.
So I guess that means he's not signing the 1.6 billion (or was it .3?) bill for the 55 miles of new not-a-wall?
Haven't we had enough testing of the waters?
After the last 2 years, I can't imagine why Trump would tell anyone in Congress his plans on anything controversial.
No Nonapod, he'll sign the bill, but it won't fund enough of his wall.
Trump signing the border security deal will be a complete disgrace and a total betrayal of the central premise of his campaign. He's not getting an increase in ICE beds, and then of course there is this jewel:
"None of the funds provided by this Act or any other Act, or provided from any accounts in the Treasury of the United States derived by the collection of fees available to the components funded by this Act, may be used by the Secretary of Homeland Security to place in detention, remove, refer for a decision whether to initiate removal proceedings, or initiate removal proceedings against a sponsor, potential sponsor, or member of a household of a sponsor or potential sponsor of an unaccompanied alien child ( as defined in section 462 (g) of the Homeland Security Act of 2002 (6 U.S.C. 279(g))) based on information shared by the Secretary of Health and Human Services."
This verbiage will ensure that more kids will be trafficked into the United States as props for their parents to gain admission to the country.
"build"
Trump had two years to bend the Republican House and Senate to his will. He wouldn't have gotten everything but he certainly would have gotten something. Now it's pen and phone stuff.
The way it was worded it seemed like McConnell was talking about some yet-to-be-drafted bill that just kept the government open, not The Bill.
None of the funds provided by this Act or any other Act, or provided from any accounts in the Treasury of the United States derived by the collection of fees available to the components funded by this Act, may be used
If I'm intepreting this correctly, this doesn't explicitly deny future funding from other areas, just the specific "accounts" associated with this Act.
@Nonapod:
Funding is not the issue with that section. It forbids the DHS "to place in detention, remove, refer for a decision whether to initiate removal proceedings, or initiate removal proceedings against a sponsor, potential sponsor, or member of a household of a sponsor or potential sponsor of an unaccompanied alien child."
That means anyone in the household (not even family) of a potential sponsor of an unaccompanied alien child can not be detained, removed, or referred for a decision to initiate removal proceedings. That is insanely broad and virtually guarantees that kids will be used as props to gain entry into the US. Signing it will be a disaster.
It forbids
Again, assuming I'm interpreting this correctly (IANAL), it forbids the usage of funds appropriated by this act for such things. It doesn't mean that money can't come from somewhere else for such things.
"The NYT reports"
So, don't believe a word of it...
"McConnell Says Trump Plans to Declare National Emergency to Build Border Wall.'
"Do, or do not. There is no 'plan'".
THE WORST.
Vicki from Pasadena
The bill also allows local governments/municipalities to bar wall building in their jurisdiction. I was for him signing, now I don's see how he can.
It doesn't mean that money can't come from somewhere else for such things.
Grab the kids' piggy banks -- GoFundMe here I come!
And McConnell says he supports Trump.
I hope President Trump does declare a national emergency and build the wall.
But, his political judgment is better than mine. I'll wait and see what he does.
I hope President Trump does declare a national emergency and build the wall.
Failure theater. A national emergency will be litigated beyond 2020, and without progress on the wall Trump won't be reelected.
5 insane provisions in the amnesty omnibus bill
If he does, let's hope that a court order stops it. Before a Democratic president can use the precedent to declare a "climate change emergency" or a "student loan emergency" or an "income inequality emergency."
"If Trump signs this bill instead of vetoing it and firing the people in the White House promoting it, he deserves to lose re-election."
I don't know how significant that stipulation about sponsors is but I read it to mean people who are here illegally don't have to be afraid of deportation if they accept unaccompanied children who are sent here by their relatives. The problem is that children and their sponsors disappear because the adults are here illegally and fear deportation. This way there is less chance of trafficking because we can keep track of what happens to the children.
I'm also more concerned about mayors being able to decide about building the wall. How does a local official get to decide on immigration policy?
Fox News says he'll sign.
“President Trump will sign the government funding bill, and as he has stated before, he will also take other executive action -- including a national emergency -- to ensure we stop the national security and humanitarian crisis at the border," White House press secretary Sarah Sanders said in a statement.
With Barr sworn in, the long awaited D-Day is ready to go. And National Emergency Actions by a President without a Senate that is willing to over-ride his Veto and impeach him are not controlled by the now irrelevant Congress.
Meade, the link you posted at 2:58 is terrific. All must read it.
My take; it is a rotten deal, under ordinary circumstances. It is a rotten deal, compared to what Mitch McConnell had gotten passed through the Senate late last year.
Some might say that Congressional Republicans negotiated a bad deal. If so, Trump should negotiate a better deal (but there's no time).
I'd say that the bad deal is a direct and proximate result of the position that Trump left Republican Conferees in, after the shutdown. Trump's posturing on his Wall left them in a position of having to give up so much, just to get even the most humiliatingly-small amount of funding for a few miles of wall. Every day since he began campaigning for the office, Trump has essentially raised the "price" that Republicans must pay on previously-disputed immigration issues, by making his Wall such a big deal. It is the complete, total elevation of Trump's personal goals over the goals of the Republican Party.
Build the Wall!
Lock her up!
Drain the Swamp!
It's not good to govern by slogans, but, alas, it is fun.
Trump does have good political instincts, as noted by ST above.
My thought is to sign the bill, and also take the emergency executive action.
Lock her up, indeed.
Enough of this shit.
And D-Days sometimes include attacks on the Enemy of the People. Not the Democrat Party Propaganda media this time, but the foreign owned Bank that calls itself a Federal Reserve.
White House confirmed he'll declare emergency. Good.
Chuck, you think the Left needs a Republican to establish a precedent before they do whatever the hell they want? Since when? The game you're advocating is that the Left does whatever it wants (and lawsuits to stop it never works because of lefty judges) and Republicans are paralyzed from doing anything. Screw different rules for each side. The Left will engage in lawfare no matter what we do, whether it's "by the rules" or within his clearly adjudicated powers or not. Examples abound. The only way it will stop is if we hurt them the same way as much as possible till THEY cry uncle.
The so-called compromise negotiated by Shelby and Schumer/Pelosi is full of poison pills to make sure illegal immigration is unchecked. The D's and bought off Republicans like Shelby REALLY want open borders. That's not rhetoric. They're not just telling Trump to go fuck himself, they're telling every American who believes in enforcing the immigration laws or securing the borders to go jump into a pile of shit.
Our only hope is Trump. I'm glad he's gone this route. I'm not happy with the way he's handled immigration. He could've held the tax cuts hostage and gotten a wall from Ryan. BUT...if Hillary had won. Or if Jeb had won. We'd have Amnesty for 12 million illegals AND no border security.
DO. NOT. SIGN. THIS. BILL.
Huge poison pills inside. Complete and utter shit sandwich.
- The budget also provides $30 million to hire pro-migration groups that will guide migrants towards winning asylum
- Section 224(a) would make it so ICE cannot detain or remove anyone who has effectively any kind of relationship (even just as a "potential sponsor") with any unaccompanied minor...you know...for our democratic party friends of human traffickers...
Make them eat it. Pocket veto. Declare emergency. Build the wall. Put these deep staters back on the street.
Hopefully he will reject the semantic play, and stand his ground to defend Americans' civil rights. Also, emigration reform to reduce collateral damage at both ends of the bridge and throughout. And Americans need to reject planned parenthood and delegated responsibility. We're not kids anymore should not be just about friendship with "benefits".
I find it interesting some people who live in areas specifically being adversely impacted by hordes of illegal aliens - like, say Pasadena - want their downward spiral to continue simply because they don't like someone actually doing something about it.
That doesn't strike me as being very bright.
Speculation is that DJT will not even use the 1.375 Billion token money in the Bill he signs because it has poison pill conditions attached to it. Instead he will get all the funds needed for OUR wall from prior appropriations.
Meade is right about what a fucked up compromise this is. I have NEVER trusted Shelby - he's a former D who voted against Bork and sabotaged Roy Moore. He's another Corrupt Senator for life who's getting paid off by Koch Brothers and Chamber of Commerce.
And btw, I think if Democrats ever try to enforce something like the Green New Deal via a national emergency declaration, it will end the global warming scam and the Democrat Party forever.
How the hell could ANY Republican who cares about border security negotiate this piece of shit? Its unbelievable!
This will give the next Democrat POTUS all the excuse they need to nationalize everything. Impeach Trump now.
Trump wins by a landslide in 2020.
"I find it interesting some people who live in areas specifically being adversely impacted by hordes of illegal aliens - like, say Pasadena - want their downward spiral to continue simply because they don't like someone actually doing something about it."
I've lived in California. You'd be amazed at how many dumbshits live there. Lots of them came to SF or LA from "Back East" and brought their yellow dog Democrat voting patterns with them. Most of ones I knew have fled the state, but no doubt they're voting D in Colorado and Idaho and cheering for Open Borders and Chuck Shumer.
BTW, National Cuck Review was urging Trump to sign the compromise and do nothing. Guys like French and Goldberg are now calling themselves "principled conservatives" and of course are all against Trump declaring a national emergency because of "overreaching executive power" or some bullshit.
The D's NEVER care what the Republicans did as precedent. NEVER. They didn't care that R's preserved the filibuster for judges. Trent Lott cried and peed his pants over the "nuclear option" - harry Reid pushed the button and laughed. Schumer and the D's have already made clear they will get rid of the filibuster when they regain the Senate. They don't Care what the R's do now. And Obama's executive orders were done despite all of Bush's restraint.
Keep calling the WH switchboard: 202 456 1414. You won't get through but Pres. will get message.
Actually, I just now did get through. "L. Meade, Madison, Wisconsin. Please tell President Trump to reject this crazy omnibus bill."
The Fart of the Deal.
and off to court we go.
There isn't going to be another shutdown, Trump isn't stupid.
Trump has been getting rolled by Congress on immigration from day one. If you bought The Art of the Deal, you might want to contact the publisher and ask for a refund. Signing the border security deal (1,159 pages) will solidify what a supine jelly fish he is. The usual immigrant patriots--Coulter, Kaus, Ingraham, Krikorkian, Vaugh--have been rightfully trashing the bill on Twitter.
@dreams:
There isn't going to be another shutdown, Trump isn't stupid.
Trump signing this bill would be the epitome of stupidity.
Sounds reasonable. He tried for more money, didn't get it, so take this money and start building. Congress has failed to work out the issue, so use emergency powers as available. Probably they won't be able to use up the money already allocated by next year, so keep building or make more demands then. Perfectly reasonable.
"Trump signing this bill would be the epitome of stupidity."
Depends if another Government shut-down hurts him worse, politically.
Farmer
Trump has been getting rolled by Congress on immigration from day one. If you bought The Art of the Deal, you might want to contact the publisher and ask for a refund. Signing the border security deal (1,159 pages) will solidify what a supine jelly fish he is. The usual immigrant patriots--Coulter, Kaus, Ingraham, Krikorkian, Vaugh--have been rightfully trashing the bill on Twitter.
You know I love the Trump, but this true. Sad.
"Trump signing this bill would be the epitome of stupidity."
He's going to sign the bill, big picture perspective. Some people can't see the forest for the trees.
Meade: Thanks for the link to the Conservative Review site, which was new to me. I bookmarked it.
Blogger rcocean said...
"How the hell could ANY Republican who cares about border security negotiate this piece of shit? Its unbelievable"
They don't care, that's the point.
There's no lobby for a wall, let alone a secure border. But, there are several lobbies for open borders.
It's all about the Benjamins, ya know.
They use to call this "Cromnibus."
Now it is "Omnidufus."
This was all about Trump's Wall. It was his issue; then it was his shutdown; it was his corner that congressional Republicans were painted into; now it is his result.
Great negotiator. LMFAO.
Now, Sean Hannity & Co. will blame Congressional Republicans. I hope they hear him, and that they never forget how Trump sold them out and Hannity blamed them. The good that could come out of this is a deeper divide between Trump and the Trumpists on one side and Republicans on the other.
@dreams:
He's going to sign the bill, big picture perspective. Some people can't see the forest for the trees.
Now's not the time to be a Trump sycophant. Read the people who have been on the immigration beat for years. They've had to stave off Republican capitulations on immigration (e.g. Gang of Eight bill) for years before the Trump presidency. The "big picture" is that if Trump caves on immigration, his presidency will be completely useless.
Trump isn't caving on immigration.
dreams said...
Trump isn't caving on immigration.
My guess -- and it didn't come to it this time, but I predict it will before November, 2020 -- is that Trump WOULD cave on "immigration," if it meant his getting major funding for a border wall. That is to say, Trump would do a deal on things like DACA, amnesty, visa numbers, et cetera, if he could get a wall out of it. I think that smart Democrats would take that deal. Good Republicans should revile it.
For his part, I think that Trump would care only about his "Wall," and related visuals.
Well, I don't know what Trump will do. It seems the Republicans got duped again.
@dreams:
Trump isn't caving on immigration.
Please explain how this bill is not a cave on immigration. Have you read what Numbers USA, the primary immigration restrictionist organization in the country, has said about this bill?
The LLR's once again are working hand in glove with the dems to achieve lefty open borders goals.
In precisely the same way LLR Chuck aligns with the far left on this blog.
Just another day in lefty/LLR-ville.
How can the President declare this a national emergency when it isn't one?
The "big picture" is that if Trump caves on immigration, his presidency will be completely useless.
The big picture is if Trump keeps the government open, shows he did everything he could to compromise with Schumer and Pelosi, and continues building the wall by any legal means necessary, he might get a second term to deal with all the immigration issues not taken up in this bill.
dreams: "Well, I don't know what Trump will do. It seems the Republicans got duped again."
No one us getting duped. Its another un a long 40 year stretch of the LLR cucks in DC collaborating with the dems to deliver open borders, just as LLR Chuck supports.
Recall, LLR Chuck was calling for a bi-partisan commission to "study" the issue!
LOL
Strangely enough, many dems were calling for that at the same time....hmmmm.
Nope. This us just more LLR Failure Theatre delivered to us by all of LLR Chuck's heroes.
Robert Cook: "How can the President declare this a national emergency when it isn't one?"
I'm sorry. I cant hear you over the din of the other 37 active national emergencies.
You will have to speak up.
This happened in the 60's, the 80's, and under W.
The LLR have been aligned with the left on this issue for decades.
What has changed is the mediavand how the word about these serial Failure Theatre events escapes and informs.
How can the President declare this a national emergency when it isn't one?
The last President declared a global emergency over the Earth’s warming as it continued to cool.
Compared to that, this is small potatoes.
@Kevin:
The big picture is if Trump keeps the government open, shows he did everything he could to compromise with Schumer and Pelosi, and continues building the wall by any legal means necessary, he might get a second term to deal with all the immigration issues not taken up in this bill.
The wall is only a piece of immigration restriction. It's an important piece but not in isolation. A wall with no immigration enforcement mechanisms won't do much. Plus, following this path will likely get tangled up in litigation. Ann Coulter and Mickey Kaus have been early and vocal supporters of Trump. That they are dismayed by this bell should tell you something.
I told all of you from the beginning that this is a very uneven fight.
You are not strong here, you are weak. You have the democratic forms, but not the actual power in this society.
Over there in Washington its one man, one significant constitutional position against - what? Millions? One man against a solid wall of monstrous institutions.
The political funding balance is even worse.
This is David and Goliath, or more accurately David against the whole Philistine host. It took a miracle then, and it will take a miracle now. Trump has been conjuring some mighty achievements out of the air, nearly, but its going to take rather more than one man, however mighty.
What we witness LLR Chuck doing is attempting to muddy the waters about who is to blame for this deal.
Chuck would have us believe that its not the fake conservatives like himself who have been pulling this for 4 decades.
It has.
The primary hope of the left and LLR's (but I repeat myself) is to separate the 80% of the republican base from Trump.
Thats the point of all this.
If I had to guess I would guess that McConnell is quite ok with the idea of a Trump support collapse and a democrat president.
Chuck your like the last employee that came into my office to complain about something. I asked for a solution. He stared at me, and then said solutions are my job. I told him to leave and demoted him.
All you do is whine, and smear President Trump. You say less that nothing.
If Trump didn't want Establishment Republicans coming in his mouth he probably shouldn't have agreed to blow them.
"If Trump signs this bill instead of vetoing it and firing the people in the White House promoting it, he deserves to lose re-election."
Bye bye!
If I had to guess I would guess that McConnell is quite ok with the idea of a Trump support collapse and a democrat president.
LLR chucks are too stupid to govern, at best they can be spineless opposition. That's all they know, mouth platitudes, and freeze in one cowering defensive hunched over stance.
It gets even better. Not only does the Compromise limit the 50 miles fencing to the Rio Grande Valley. It gives local cities and counties Veto power over whether the fence is built. And what party controls the Rio Grande Valley? The Democrats of course. These counties vote 3-1 Democrat.
So, its all a sham. And Shelby and Republican Senators went along with it.
If Trump wouldn’t be so loathsome, there wouldn’t be a Democratic majority House. Think about that. Trump never did any of you any favors.
Called - didn't get through. But it was worth it.
Inga: "If Trump wouldn’t be so loathsome, there wouldn’t be a Democratic majority House."
LOL
"The Democratic Party Got Crushed During The Obama Presidency. Here's Why"
NPR
I can tell you why! Obama was loathsome. Plus he lied alot. Pkus he spied on Americans.
Never forget that McConell and the Swamp wanted Hillary to win. Think of how easy Mitch's job would be if Hillary was POTUS. He would've talked tough, and then passed anything the D's wanted. He would've passed TPP. He would've passed Amnesty and gotten open borders - and cheap labor for Wall Street.
He'd be able to give the Chamber of Commerce everything they wanted (except tax cuts) while pretending to be Mr. Conservative. Paul Ryan would still be Speaker if Hillary had won. And happy as a clam to work with her.
I think the "Open Borders" crowd are nuts. This is a coalition of leftwing, radical, Dems and Chamber of Commerce Republicans -- who love cheap labor.
I'm somewhat skeptical of the "Strong Borders" crowd, who are highly critical of Trump on this issue, when Trump's the only candidate -- of either party -- trying to plug up the border. True, he may fail. He faces entrenched opposition, who slowly and gradually want to open our American doors to millions of unskilled Hispanics to vote Democrat. If he fails, the Strong Borders crowd fails too, as does the country.
On the other hand, Krikorian is very good on this issue, and thinks the bill stinks. But Krikorian is not necessarily astute on the politics.
It's my understanding that if he doesn't sign the bill by sometime tomorrow, the government will shut down.
I shouldnt have referenced back to obama losing the House.
I dont want LLR Chuck to cry. I will be more sensitive in the future.
Bay Area Guy: "I think the "Open Borders" crowd are nuts."
Inga and LLR Chuck demonstrate that quite clearly everyday.
limit the 50 miles fencing to the Rio Grande Valley. It gives local cities and counties Veto power over whether the fence is built.
I don't think congress can constitutionally delegate their authority to local officials. Maybe someone can come up with a good example from the past. On further examination. Can congress appropriate money with the same restriction that they would have to approve the expenditure, after it was appropriated?
This CR is loaded with poison pills. He should not sign it.
I don't see how Trump can allow another shutdown, the liberal media and the crooked dems will destroy him.
Build the Wall!
Drain the Swamp!
Lock her up!
Sign the Bill!
dreams: "..the liberal media and the crooked dems will destroy him."
Never forget to include the dems most important allies: the LLR's
Well, The Gracchi didn't succeed either.
Well, if anyone knows how to do it on the cheap, profiting mightily from the illegal labor market, it's Trump.
"Ann Coulter and Mickey Kaus have been early and vocal supporters of Trump. That they are dismayed by this bell should tell you something."
Ann Coulter was an early and vocal supporter of Chris Christie too.
I love Ann, and she is right most of the time, but not all of the time.
Personally I'd prefer he declare the emergency without signing this bill. But the fact that he's declaring the emergency takes most of the sting out of the bill for me. If it was JUST the bill and no declaration, then I'd be as livid as you are.
Here's a good piece on the statutory authority to use National Emergency powers to build a wall.
... Congress gives the President plenary authority to declare a national emergency under 50 USC § 1621. If Congress disagrees, it can pass a joint resolution terminating the emergency under 50 USC § 1622. USC §1631 only requires the President to invoke the specific emergency powers he intends to use. Then you have 33 USC § 2293, which says that the emergency “may require use of the Armed Forces.”
One of the main groups of the Armed Services is the Army Civil Engineering Corps, which spends most of its time and personnel building domestic projects needed for the civil defense of the country and the security of the people. Indeed, their mission is to “deliver vital public and military engineering services … to strengthen our Nation’s security.” Those claiming military funds can never be used for domestic construction (e.g., #Wall) apparently missed that the Army Corps of Engineers have been doing domestic construction for decades as their mission is “military engineering services…to strengthen our Nation’s security.”
Congress even passed a law codified and titled “construction authority” in the event of a declaration of “emergency.” Another statute explicitly authorizes the President to “apply the resources of the Department of the Army’s civil works program” including funding originally intended for “construction, operation, maintenance, or repair” of other civil works projects to funding the “construction, operation, maintenance and repair” of other “civil defense projects” or “civil works” needed “to the national defense.” How is building a border wall not a“civil defense project” when border walls have been the foundation of civil defense for literally tens of thousands of years since the beginning of civilization?
Funtastic. Will the Hawaiian judge block it? How many Dems will have melt downs? Does this shift focus away from AOCs Green Deal?
And Cook, it's been an emergency since 1987, when Tip O'Neill promised Reagan border security in exchange for amnesty, and then reneged after the amnesty took place. That the Democrats have actively engineered and are doing everything to make the situation worse - because they are literal traitors in every single possible way - doesn't make it not an emergency.
@Qwinn:
I love Ann, and she is right most of the time, but not all of the time.
No one is. But on this, I think she is dead right.
HT: "Well, if anyone knows how to do it on the cheap, profiting mightily from the illegal labor market, it's Trump."
So, since all dems and LLR's, without
exception, are completely in favor of those things, its all good.
Thank you, Meade, for the WH number. I called it but the switchboard is closed. Instead I went to the White House website and left the following comment:
"Dear Mister President,
"PLEASE DO NOT SIGN THE COMPROMISE BILL TO KEEP THE GOVERNMENT OPEN.
"I am a pensioner without a lot of money; but, I will gladly suffer in the cold and on the street than have you compromise our national security with the bromides and poison pills of know-nothing "elected" officials.
"PLEASE, be strong and say NO.
"Take the heat; we need a LEADER to make American Great."
There is nothing wrong with a dash of schmaltz.
MAGA!!! And it turns out most presidents have used 'national emergency' declarations to move funds.. Obama did it, I think, 20 times, Clinton 17..
Quite legal!
“How can the President declare this a national emergency when it isn't one?”
Good question for the Courts.
"Obama did it, I think, 20 times, Clinton 17.." I don't think it was 20.
“How can the President declare this a national emergency when it isn't one?” How can he declare one he's contributing to?
"Dear Mister President,
"PLEASE DO NOT SIGN THE COMPROMISE BILL TO KEEP THE GOVERNMENT OPEN.
"I am a pensioner without a lot of money; but, I will gladly suffer in the cold and on the street than have you compromise our national security with the bromides and poison pills of know-nothing "elected" officials.
"PLEASE, be strong and say NO.
"Take the heat; we need a LEADER to make American Great."
-------------------------------------------------------------
This is what democracy looks like.
Donald J. Trump
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
Repubs must not allow Pres Obama to subvert the Constitution of the US for his own benefit & because he is unable to negotiate w/ Congress.
8:36 AM · Nov 20, 2014 · Twitter Web Client
LOL, what a hypocrite.
The missing element here is the political fall-out.
Nobody in this fine mostly anonymous commentariat can explain:
1. What the political fall-out will be, if Trump signs the bill? or
2. What the political fall-out will be, if Trump doesn't sign the bill and the gov't shuts down again?
Also, there are several provocateurs who don't give a shit about border security, urging that Trump do X, hoping that X will sink his presidency.
Also, whatever Trump does, the ACLU or Mecha or BLM or George Soros will sue him in California, and find an Obama judge to order some national injunction. And, then the appeal to the 9th Circuit will affirm it.
Politically, it's very titillating.
I'd say it's an emergency when 50,000 or more illegals get into the country each month while our asylum system has a backlog of 750,000 cases and likely increasing daily. I'd say it's an emergency when time and again we hear of a once or twice or seven time deported lowlife is back and has committed murder or rape.
Well, if anyone knows how to do it on the cheap, profiting mightily from the illegal labor market, it's Trump.
Is that why you leftists are dragging those poor, poor illegal aliens who got canned from Trump properties to the SOTU?
Make up your damn minds.
"I don't think congress can constitutionally delegate their authority to local officials."
Huh? The congress can say "we will spend X $ if the local government agrees to do Y" In this case, its approve a wall in their area.
Why would that be against the CONSTITUTION? Its not a "delegation" its a Contingency.
I'm sick and tired anti-American Fucks like Inga pushing for open borders.
Go back Germany - kraut.
"Make up your damn minds. "
I only have one. And if the undocumented laborers were dragged to the SOTU, I can only imagine it was to do something similar that Trump himself did when he threatened to bring Paula Jones et al to a debate. Cheap stunts - both of them.
But at least you acknowledge that he has profited from the illegal labor market.
Blogger Meade said...
"Dear Mister President,
"PLEASE DO NOT SIGN THE COMPROMISE BILL TO KEEP THE GOVERNMENT OPEN.
I sent the same message a few minutes ago.
Meade, it is your absolute right as a free-thinking American to hold any views you choose, on immigration legislation. In all honesty, I'd bet that together you and I could mostly agree on a useful immigration/border security bill. I would surprise you with my hawkishness. You would probably not surprise me with your reasonableness.
But it is your vehemence on illegal immigration that is a curiosity to me. You and I are not too far apart in age; and I have about 100,000% more concern about health care reform than immigration (illegal or otherwise). But actual health care reform seems like something that is deliberately ignored here, and we both know of Althouse's writing that the subject -- the policy details -- bore her. It might bore her readership too. It's all about the "repeal" of Obamacare, with none of the "replace."
I just don't get it. Border wall debates are peanuts, compared to health care.
Trust the plan. There is no crisis except the destruction of the Democrat/Marxist Party.
Thank you Meade. Called and got through. I can’t remember the last time I called the WH. Yikes.
from Rep Ilhan's district:
Minnesota is now home to one the largest Somali communities in the global diaspora, with an estimated 100,000 living in the Minneapolis-St. Paul area. The Cedar-Riverside neighborhood is the center of the Somali community – and is fondly nicknamed “Little Mogadishu” – for its array of Somali-centered organizations, businesses, and mosques.
Last year, it was announced that massive security upgrades totaling some $825,000 were coming to the major government-funded apartment complex in Cedar-Riverside, to “address resident safety concerns.” Part of the plan was to place a six-foot perimeter fence at the Cedar High Apartments
Okay, I'm TOTALLY Confused?
A six-foot perimeter fence sounds A Hell Of A LOT like A WALL
I thought walls were
Immoral
Useless
A Waste of Taxpayer Money
YET, Ilhan's home turf is getting A WALL?
Fine, tell me how you do it, then, it's a gamble, but there is no way of keeping the govt operating, and the dems are willing to let air traffic control, social security, debt financing go to hell,
"Called and got through."
You did? I thought they closed at 4. Weird.
Ok, I just stayed on the line, and also got through. Told them my hope is he signs and does NOT declare a national emergency.
"Well, The Gracchi didn't succeed either."
The Gracchi are an excellent analogy. Indeed, the US constitutional system includes similar categories of powers as those the old Roman Republic, they are just redistributed. The ancient Tribunes are embodied in the President, with his veto, as well as at least some of those of the consuls.
Taking the big picture, the Gracchi, upper class themselves, were the last champions of the of the popular portion of the old Roman society, the independent yeomanry, the Roman volk, before it was crushed by the high-low mix of the Optimates and the City mob. The parallels verge on the spooky.
The rest of the story is of a new populism of demagogues, themselves of the upper class, appealing to the mob, against the upper class optimates, which were ultimately crushed. The Roman analogy predicts a future man on horseback exploiting the unhappiness of the impoverished masses. A Hugo Chavez perhaps.
I’m with Coulter on this. Trump is done for me. His biggest weakness is that he hasn’t learned how Washington works. He’s Charlie Brown and congressional Republicans are Lucy,
“Ok, I just stayed on the line, and also got through. Told them my hope is he signs and does NOT declare a national emergency.”
Me too, although I doubt Trump will be swayed by anyone besides Hannity.
buwaya said....
The Roman analogy predicts a future man on horseback exploiting the unhappiness of the impoverished masses. A Hugo Chavez perhaps.
My question is:
Will we have a Sulla? Or skip right to a Nero?
Immigration is about political power. Indeed it feeds more directly into culture, and culture is upstream of politics, it determines politics.
"Health care reform", like most things that seem to matter so much, is a use of power.
At first I thought he should sign it. Now, after hearing about all the carp in it, I've changed my mind. Just declare a national emergency. Let Congress come back with another funding bill.
Washington doesn't often work for the good, it creates McCain Feingold, simpson mazzolli, this rube Goldberg tax bill,
Wooooo doggy! Coulter is on a rip!
Ann Coulter
Ann Coulter
@AnnCoulter
Trump HAD the authority to build the wall, but even Nino Scalia would not say the Commander in Chief has rights he has just signed away by putting his John Hancock on this bill.
5:39 PM · Feb 14, 2019 · Twitter Web Client
Who voted for Coulter, Dobbs or Hannity?
"Will we have a Sulla?"
Rome acquired a Marius first, and the reaction to him was Sulla, and then a confused period of powerbrokers, rebels and that warlord Pompey. And etc.
realistically tell me how you do without an emergency declaration, and if you don't sign the omnibus, what happens when govt departments go to zero barrier, because they are willing to do it,
Coulter is freaking out on twitter. She seems a bit unhinged.
Laura Ingraham is not freaking out on twitter, but does genuinely believe the bill is crap, and should not be signed. But, doesn't address the political fall-out if govt shuts down again.
Madness!
Inga...Allie Oop said...If Trump wouldn’t be so loathsome, there wouldn’t be a Democratic majority House. Think about that. Trump never did any of you any favors.
If Hillary hadn't been so loathsome, there wouldn't be a Trump in the White House.
btw, miss omar's rant in the earlier thread, was word for word, from an Aljazeera op ed,
“If Hillary hadn't been so loathsome, there wouldn't be a Trump in the White House.”
True enough. But this time around there are a lot of really good candidates already running. 2020 will be a very different story.
Stupid.
Vicki from Pasadena
Whoa! Is Coulter advocating insurrection?
LOL!
Ann Coulter
Ann Coulter
@AnnCoulter
PELOSI WILL WIN. He just signed away his rights as commander in chief.
oh gosh you were amusing, oh you were serious, coulter really should have her researcher, post her tweets, so she doesn't chew so much shoe leather,
Didn’t Trump say he wasn’t going to sign another sh**sandwich? This sure sounds like one.
Meade said...
Keep calling the WH switchboard: 202 456 1414. You won't get through but Pres. will get message.
Actually it went right through.
I told the nice lady Trump better not sign that bill.
She shuffled me off to some other line with hours that are over.
She sounded resigned.
On the one hand, Coulter predicted Trump would win in 2015 - so she beat everybody on that one.
On the other hand, her tweets on this bill are, dare I say, bordering on hysterical?
"I'd say it's an emergency when 50,000 or more illegals get into the country each month while our asylum system has a backlog of 750,000 cases and likely increasing daily. I'd say it's an emergency when time and again we hear of a once or twice or seven time deported lowlife is back and has committed murder or rape."
Crimes rates in the U.S. are at near 30-year lows, and illegal immigrants commit crime at a rate lower than native U.S. citizens. The rate of illegals entering the country has been dropping for over a decade. Jobs are allegedly booming.
So...where is the emergency?
Seems like a good time to inject a bit of levity into the thread:
Rob Elgas
✔
@RobElgasABC7
· 34m
Replying to @RobElgasABC7
BREAKING: Multiple soucres tell @ABC7Chicago Eyewitness News Jussie Smollet and the 2 men who are being questioned by police staged the attack - allegedly because his character was being written out of the show Empire.
Rob Elgas
✔
@RobElgasABC7
MORE: Someone familiar with the investigation says Smollet was a no-show for an interview earlier today with detectives. All of this coming hours after Smollett spoke to @GMA speaking out in his first media interview taking aim at those who doubted his story.
It really is a demonstration of just how detestable the republicans and democrats in the house of representatives and senate are.
The uniparty that put this shit bill together and the people that cheer them are disgusting human beings.
It is sad that people like Inga and Vicky are so dominated by hatred and stupidity that they are happy about this.
@achilles
#metoo
Wait, is that taken?
Hahahaha, Full Moon trying to distract y’all away Trump signing the bill and and losing to the Democrats.
I don't see how it will play out. Court judge is found to halt it, house finds it an impeachable offense, MSM soap opera women storm (click bait, huge profits).
As long as there are soap opera women, the anti-Trump drumbeat is profitable.
I’m very happy that Nancy Pelosi and the Democratic House is in charge of the purse strings. Again, if Trump wouldn’t be so loathsome the Democrats wouldn’t hold the majority in the House. Consider that.
The Freedom Caucus urges Trump to use executive authority to build the wall. . They don't like the bill, but they don't explicitly tell him not to sign it.
“If you feel the need to sign the legislation we also urge you to immediately use your authority pursuant to Title X, Sections 284 and 2808, to access funds to begin building a much-needed border wall,” they continued.
“We support your use of the authority delegated to you as President by the United States Congress to use federal funds to protect the American people.”
Mixed signal.
We support your use of the authority delegated to you as President by the United States Congress to use federal funds to build a vanity wall so you don’t look totally incompetent and so we don’t get wiped out in 2020
The wall is only a piece of immigration restriction.
I discussed that in my post. No second term, no chance to change.
New tidbit, regarding the "hate crime" (stupidest term ever) perpetrated against Jussie Smollet. He had two extras from the show perform the alleged act. It's the NY Post reporting, so take with a grain of salt. -Lincolntf
https://abc7chicago.com/sources-smollett-staged-attack-with-help-of-others-allegedly-being-written-off-empire/5138497/
Cookie- Illegals were arrested for 10% of murders in Texas so how can you say they commit fewer crimes percent-wise than legals? You just arithmetic challenged like most liberals?
"So...where is the emergency?"
The situation is, lets say, misunderstood by both sides. Less charitably it is wildly propagandized upon by both sides. It is a series of enormous castles built of hypocrisy and irony. It would be an excellent subject for Tom Wolfe, but of course he has so much material these days that it would probably kill him, were he not already deceased. Just as well I suppose.
The real emergency is that matter of power. Not political power, quite, though that comes out of what we are talking about. It is a question of culture, race, identity. In a democracy those things create political alignments (no, it is not a matter of individual free will), and the numbers in these alignments determine at least one sort of power. If one messes with the numbers, by policy, you flip power. You add it to some and remove it from others.
Power is the ultimate emergency. If you hate each other this intensely, devoted enemies, losing means putting yourselves in the hands of your enemies. Vae victis.
Fuck you Chuck Cuck.
Eat shit and die you anti-American open borders fuck.
"Coulter is freaking out on twitter. She seems a bit unhinged."
She's putting pressure on Trump - Moron.
After this Republican cuck sell out - I'm sending AOC some $$$
70% top rate? Nope. 80%.
Rich people want their cheap labor and open borders.
Good, lets get some of the Rich people income for Taxes to pay for all the illegals.
Demography is power, being able to select your own electorate, this is what the left admitted to rod liddle re immigration under Blair
rhhardin said...
I don't see how it will play out. Court judge is found to halt it, house finds it an impeachable offense, MSM soap opera women storm (click bait, huge profits).
*******
Court judge will be overruled by the Supremes, which has upheld the POTUS authority and power to act under the 1976 statute, as other presidents have.
House will be a laughingstock if it claims the POTUS acting properly under the color of law has committed an impeachable offense.
Like San Diego is suing because ice is releasing the caravan participants re the flores settlement, I'm cereal.
Rome as an analogy breaks down of course. The structure is quite similar, the power-balance among the classes. etc.
But the big difference is the matter of culture. The American (and some other European/western) cultural moment is unprecedented. Your highest authorities, your cultural high priests, the guardians of your civic religion, are nearly unanimous in their message - the subtext of their sermons and their dogma is that they want you to die, to die out. You cannot conclude anything else, if you boil it down. It is very clear - "commit suicide". They tell it to their own children, well packed in soft verbal tissue, but so it is.
It is perverse beyond my understanding, but I accept the fact, though I can't explain it without resorting to Mark 5:1
Rome never had that, no matter how decadent it got.
Inga...Allie Oop said...
Hahahaha, Full Moon trying to distract y’all away Trump signing the bill and and losing to the Democrats.
Point in fact.
Inga is so consumed by her hatred and is so stupid that she is willing to erase US borders to defeat Trump.
Sure Pelosi is worth millions and is wealthy because of corrupt land regulations in San Francisco. Sure Pelosi has walls around many of her numerous properties and will never have to deal with the fallout from open borders.
Inga and the people that vote for democrats don't mind their heroes becoming wealthy as long as they get to persecute the people they hate. That is why they jump on 16 year old kids in MAGA hats and in their hatred make up lies and support threats of violence but in the next breath defend open borders.
These are disgusting people driven by hate of free people.
Q: What do you call turning down $25 billion for a border wall only to sign a $1.375 billion border-wall bill filled with poison pills?
A: So much winning.
"It really is a demonstration of just how detestable the republicans and democrats in the house of representatives and senate are."
So, no issue w/ the brilliant deal maker POTUS?
Seems like he had two years w/ GOP control. Sure, the Senate was an issue. But, presumably stable genius mater debater DJT knew that odds were that things would get worse in the House re midterm re out-of-power party re job-approval.
IOW, DJT played you. And, that you still don't blame him means ya still wear the Scarlet Letter S. And you do it w/ gusto!
Maybe DJT's cons only work on certain folk. Like the folks who went ta TU to learn how to be a billionaire. And, that Ach sorta type like likes these threads. Oblivious.
Sucka!
rcocean said...
After this Republican cuck sell out - I'm sending AOC some $$$
70% top rate? Nope. 80%.
Well there ya go!
I was having trouble understanding any Obama-Obama-Trump voters. Now I might need to wrap my brain around Obama-Obama-Trump-Ocasio Cortez voters.
LOL.
Trump's emergency may be questionable, but so is Congress' attempt to micro-manage the Executive.
I look for a number of court cases filed by both sides to wind their way to the Supreme Court, and the issues to be kept alive with a constant flow of fresh outrages.
You Achilles, are a disgusting person driven by extremism. It will be the end of you one day. I expect to hear about you in the news some day when you finally go off that cliff.
Narciso, the root problem to me is that Trump is not following the Constitution. He has the veto. It is his only power over legislation. There was no bill submitted a few weeks ago from the House to the Senate. McConnell said he would not bring it up for a vote. Trump had the upper hand at that point. He traded away his power for the SOTU. The House and Senate immediately colluded to present a bill that they could both agree to. Trump still has the veto but like Bush he is too pussy to use it. He has been played and it looks to me like he just doesn’t get Washington. So we will descend even further into banana land.
Blogger dreams said...
I don't see how Trump can allow another shutdown, the liberal media and the crooked dems will destroy him.
I don’t think so. During the last shut down thinking people realized the world didn’t fall apart, and life went along swimmingly. Democrats and the news media (but I repeat myself) screamed amd blames the president, but everyone knows that budgets are Congress’ job. If Congress can’t cobble together a budget, they are to blame.
"Now I might need to wrap my brain around Obama-Obama-Trump-Ocasio Cortez voters."
BHO is the one that doesn't fit. Sure, he jabbered about you didn't build the roads and such that yer biz needed to thrive in America. And, he had that fake plumber worried about the death tax or whatever tax that had nothing to do w/ his poor ass.
But, DJT and AOC both live by grievance. No beer summits fer them.
BHO is more WMR (mittens) than he is those two.
IMHO.
Exactly just like supporters of Duterte over triana, who is the real China stooge, or the enablers of the massacre in mindanao in 2001, (that your fellow countrymen Fernandez brought to light)
Yes and them how do you keep the government functioning the dems are this close from dousing themselves with gasoline, for their objective
"Yes and them how do you keep the government functioning the dems are this close from dousing themselves with gasoline, for their objective"
Americans don't believe this.
If they did, DJT would win.
Why has DJT failed? That's the question. The only question. But, Trump Double Derangement Syndrome messes yur mind.
TDDS
“Q: What do you call turning down $25 billion for a border wall only to sign a $1.375 billion border-wall bill filled with poison pills?”
Incompetent
A: So much winning.
LOL
Well, 87% is considered essential. So government will never shut down. The only brake on our descent into banana land is to default. That’s all we have left. And it’s not much is it? Congress would definitely override that. Unfortunately, most Americans are not politically mature and don’t understand that the root of our problem is the Constitution. It has failed. And no one has the patience or guts for a Convention. At this point there’s only one avenue out.
At one time, the US was quite good at dodging, to some degree, the politico-cultural issue of immigration. The US economy, commercial media and its public schools were almost designed for this purpose. A foreigner in America was encouraged to become an American, to love the locals, to adopt their ways, observe their public and private civic rituals. This worked, mostly.
This did not (too much) threaten the balance of power. It was its own sort of civic ritual. That swearing in of citizens. I have seen a few. Originally, thirty years ago, it was an emotional thing, and for many today it still is, for those old-school few who still come from a culture where they are educated in a civilized manner. Later it has, often, become perfunctory, or a tedious imposition.
This system broke, very quickly, and flipped to nearly its opposite. This happened in the 1980's and through the 90's. The system now blares out with all its power, to the immigrant and their later generations, the single message of grievance and suspicion towards "legacy" America. They are not joining the tribe, anymore, they are joining a war against that tribe. It has gotten more and more extreme by the year. Worse now than ever.
If you want a reason to declare this immigration issue an "emergency", it is this. Your own official and unofficial cultural dogma is to make these people your enemies, and to see themselves as your enemies.
"don’t understand that the root of our problem is the Constitution."
Its not your constitution. Your problems come from your culture, not your political forms. You could govern yourselves as everyone else does, with a Parliament and ministers, and you would be in the same boat.
"And, he had that fake plumber worried about the death tax or whatever tax that had nothing to do w/ his poor ass."
The plumber wasn't fake. And note that though he was not entirely realistic about the death tax, he was correct not to trust the gang around Obama. Their instincts were vile. They immediately tried to persecute him through the local bureaucracy.
You Americans are subject to, ruled by, in the main, vicious, horrible people.
Meh, its all muddled. Since I don't really trust the media I have to wait 48 hours or so until the dust settles to see what the deal is. At the end of the day it's still Trump against the open border uniparty so I would have been surprised if this bill would have gotten substantial areas of the wall built anyway.
B, the Constitution is a Social Contract so I see it as upstream from culture.
Yes he was close enough, and the huntress was aware enough to understand his message whereas McCain had checked out and had the Jones memo to protect him from accountabulity.
That's how it should be, but in a culture antithetical to the constitution it isnt.
Buw,
My only error, and it's a big one, is that I didn't write "ass crack."
Plumber humor missed opportunity.
I Sux.
Order the military and the national guard to the border. Then declare the emergency. And then say they won’t be removed from the border until The Wall is built.
Trump can have troops on the border as long as he wants. Build the Wall or man the border.
So Trump’s legacy will be that he wasted money meant to be used for our troops for a vanity wall.
“Congress believes the Pentagon has $21 billion in unobligated military construction funding—money that has been appropriated by the legislature and set aside for specific projects but not yet issued—that the president could use to build the wall over objections from Congress, according to two congressional aides.
The money, which would be taken from construction projects such as hospitals, family housing, and maintenance, would not be replenished until Congress passes another defense appropriations bill, the aides said. This could leave critical infrastructure improvements in limbo.”
https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/02/14/trump-may-have-21-billion-in-military-funds-available-for-the-wall-pentagon-federal-spending-government-shutdown-mexico-border-migration-immigration/
It’s antithetical because the Con has made it so. The Con grants to the 5 government entities the power to make their own rules. Additionally, Madison and Hamilton said that government would decide the extent of their power. The Con is sparse and it is detail that limits government. Latitude grants expansive power to government. I’m a programmer and when I look at the Con with a critical eye, it’s easy to see the bugs, failures and lack of error handling. Anything you see in culture that you like or dislike is DIRECTLY attributable to the Con.
Inga: "So Trump’s legacy will be that he wasted money meant to be used for our troops for a vanity wall."
The vast majority of military voters and retirees will vote for Trump in 2020 because they know all too well what the leftists and their LLR lap poodles are doing.
Nurses are apparently ignorant that budget money is not directed as precisely as she believes. Go to the Treasury site and read a budget. Maybe you will understand how your comment is completely beside the point:
Chuck said...
If he does, let's hope that a court order stops it. Before a Democratic president can use the precedent to declare a "climate change emergency" or a "student loan emergency" or an "income inequality emergency."
Oh, please. Democrat presidents don't need no stinkin' precedents. They'll do it whether there is a precedent or not.
Well looking at the document, one could conclude that Congress was meant to be preeminent, probably because they thought parliament may not have checked the executived power.
My only error, and it's a big one, is that I didn't write "ass crack."
AKA "coin slot."
Over 30 years after Amnesty. That was a terrible idea.
If anyone can just come here it’s not a country. It’s a gas station restroom.
Number of times LLR Chuck opposed any democrat President's National Emergency declaration?
ZERO
Number of times LLR Chuck will oppose any future democrat Presidential National Emergency declaration?
ZERO
Congress president Courts who are the other two institutions
@buwaya:
If you want a reason to declare this immigration issue an "emergency", it is this. Your own official and unofficial cultural dogma is to make these people your enemies, and to see themselves as your enemies.
Your whole comment, but particularly this last paragraph, is excellently put. Immigration is the number one issue. Every other issue is secondary to national suicide.
"So Trump’s legacy will be that he wasted money meant to be used for our troops for a vanity wall."
And the wasted taxpayer money from his shutdown. And, the devastated families.
Anywho, why didn't those losers ask their dad for hundreds of million of dollars to bail them out. DJT is stumped. But, don't feel too bad for him, he's passed tax cuts (funded by borrowed money) that massively tilt to him v the folks sans hundreds of millions and/or billions of dollars.
Don't cry for DJT, America.
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