"It’s particularly nice to see Vladimir Putin’s favorite Republican member of the House, Dana Rohrabacher of California, voted out of office."
Says Bret Stephens, one of the the NYT's conservative columnists, quoted in "For a Second There, We Stopped Talking About Trump/What else does the Democrats’ new House majority portend?," which is a conversation between him and the liberal NYT columnist Gail Collins, who responds, "This is the world Trump has made: Bret Stephens sitting in front of the TV cheering whenever a Republican goes down."
There's also this from Collins: "You know that I’ve always had a thing about how the country’s divided between empty places and crowded places. It’s partly based on a perfectly rational assessment of needs. But it’s also partly based on a longstanding distrust that Trump has made truly poisonous. Kind of scary."
I think that means the people who don't choose to crowd together in urban areas are wary, suspicious creatures, and Trump figured out how to activate them by playing upon the character flaws and neuroses that were the reason they were living out there in the first place.
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Can somebody, anybody, explain to me why Gail Collins has a column in the New York Times? Can anybody tell me one interesting thing she has ever said? One place where she didn’t just spout the general progressive opinion in drab language?
AA: "Says Bret Stephens, one of the the NYT's conservative columnists ...."
The first quote, the very first quote from Stephens in the conversation: " The good news, Gail, is that Democrats had a better election night than was apparent late that night or the next day."
The natives are always restless.
Not activate them—weaponize them. Gotta get the terminology right.
Crowd them into a cage and mother hamsters will kill their own offspring to get more space.
What you mean we, Kemosabe?
Not activate them—weaponize them. Gotta get the terminology right.
See what I mean, she can’t even get her propaganda terms right.
The nation dared to reject their choice, so they spend all their time reminding you just how much they hate you and your choices.
Stephens: " I think the wall’s a dumb idea, in the same way I think a lot of gigantic infrastructure projects are a waste of money."
The poor slub can't see the forest for the trees. Why the wall is just another infrastructure project. OOOOkay.
There are some classic quotes in the conversation.
Collins: "Well, Sidney Blumenthal isn’t a lawyer, but compared with Matthew Whitaker he’d still be 100 times better (as AG)."
Can't a liberal observe that the division between left and right is scary without your reading their mind?
Althouse is more conservative and Republican than Stephens no matter what he calls himself.
Althouse has married twice and conserved her name unlike "Stephens" the wily name-changer for example.
But if these simple labels help simple folk reading the NYTs know what thoughts are okay to have today (i.e. normal conservatives hate and fear the crazed whacko-bird Trump) then who am I to notice the lazy hueristic-based limiting mental scheme that earn so many self-pats on onanistic backs?
schema.
"who don't choose to crowd together in urban areas are wary, suspicious creatures,"
Hmm, I think most were actually born outside of big cities, and like a slower lifestyle where they can smell the flowers, often meet people they know while outside, and know many of their neighbors.
I suspect most Dems in most big cities do NOT know most of their neighbors, nor own Single Family Houses; tho the 'burbs with the houses are often now part of the "greater metro area", and more of these folks do know more of their neighbors.
The non-urban folk have little need for anonymity, and don't feel they're doing anything shameful - unlike many who leave the little towns.
I await the day when all the columnists at the NYT simply write the lyrics to the Internationale.
Stephens is a small and deeply foolish man, a perfect of example of a man with much education and knowledge, but little wisdom.
"Can't a liberal observe that the division between left and right is scary without your reading their mind?"
I didn't attempt to read her mind. I paraphrased the text in an effort to understand it. The paraphrase is in the form of an offer: Because I say "I think that means," it's very clear that I am struggling to find the meaning and inviting the reader to do a different paraphrase and get at a different meaning.
Collins was positing something about the type of people who live in the sparsely populated areas — why they are there and how they can be used and were used by Trump.
If understanding her words isn't something we should do, she shouldn't be read at all. But she is a writer, publishing in the NYT.
I was born in the suburbs of Pittsburgh. Always wanted to live "out" and finally purchased 40 acres and a mule. Well, not a mule, but a horse. The smell of fresh air and wild flowers is indescribable. And no noise pollution. None. Maybe see or hear 10 cars on our road all day.
Traveled to NYC and traveled the subways multiple times. The crowds and the smell, or is it smell of the crowds, was not pleasing. Squeezing together (literally) was not my idea of an appealing lifestyle.
I suspect most Dems in most big cities do NOT know most of their neighbors, nor own Single Family Houses; tho the 'burbs with the houses are often now part of the "greater metro area", and more of these folks do know more of their neighbors.
Now who is sterotyping?
This is satire, right? It is clearly not serious opinion journalism.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding "Can't a liberal observe that the division between left and right is scary without your reading their mind?"
Are you not accusing me of "reading" Collins's mind?
If you are, why are you not questioning her apparent effort to read the mind of people who live in rural America?
Anyway, I think it's fine to attempt to read another person's mind as long as you keep your wits about you and don't overstate what you are able to know. I say "I think" or "it seems" or use the question form to be clear that I don't precisely know.
But one of the main purposes of language is to show other people what is going on in your head, to share your inner thoughts, and other people, hearing your words and trying to understand them are therefore working on reading your mind (which also includes contemplating what you are withholding and how you may be manipulating).
Those who say you shouldn't mind-read — Scott Adams says this frequently — have their reasons for revealing they have something on their mind about mind-reading and some motivation to caution you not to do it. I wonder what that is? I'll start by speculating that this is a person who isn't good at imagining what other people are thinking and doesn't want to have to take into account when people are hiding things or lying and manipulating.
In a similar vein, I think the guy who tweeted out, and got the Baraboo ball rolling was saw the world as “”dipshits who live in the country vs. the cool people who live in the city”. I don’t think he has any concept of why people would live in a place like Baraboo, Wisconsin.
Poor Bret Stephens wants to be one of the cool kids, but we all know that they laugh at him behind his back.
"one of the the NYT's conservative columnists"
Huh?
WTF?
The narratives are always restless...
Brett has TDS.
Re: Rural Vs Urban divide: the character flaws and neuroses that were the reason they were living out there in the first place.
Interesting, because, that is exactly how rural people view the strange people who wish to live in the crowded urban jungles divorced from nature. Full of neuroses, character flaws and why the HELL do you want to live that way anywhooo?
Besides....if people didn't live out in the rural areas, where do they [urbanites] think they are going to get their food, lumber, minerals, building supplies, power like electricity, natural gas, oil etc?
Brett has TDS.
Nor does he like the crease in his pants.
"that Trump has made truly poisonous"
Yes, all the fault of that mean ol' debbil Trump. Couldn't possibly be that Trump was elected because he gave voice to a rising anger, directed at the likes of Stephens and Collins – and that won't go away just because Trump does.
Correction:
Putative conservative New York Times columnist Brett Stevens, brought in when David Brooks is late because he's getting his carriage ponies re-shoed, and Russ Douhat is busy trying to talk all his twitter friends out of going Episcopalian.
The way the Times is going, Gail Collins is going to be working in a big empty space soon. It's already run by an oligarch. If that sort of thing really scares her, maybe she'll finally squeeze out a metaphor or at least an interesting verb.
We Can Replace Them
Nope, no poison there. Perfectly ordinary.
Nothing is new in the Stephens/Collins dialogue: Trump is a monster; everyone who supported him is a monster or an enabler; and the social pathologies that cause people to live in rural areas are the same as those that provide for supporting Trump. That crap is getting mighty old. There is no room in the mind of Stephens or Collins, or for that matter other Trump haters, for good faith acceptance of a deeply flawed character as better than the alternatives. It's ok to find Trump supporters mistaken, even having bad judgment, but Stepehens' moral condescension isn't going to persuade them. To borrow a line from Glenn Reynolds: You want more Trump, because this is how you get more Trump.
Take a look at the House map at Real Clear Politics.
Very instructive.
And kind of shocking, actually.
That is a tough slog to read through. The raw misinformation is staggering. No I have no desire to live in the city. We need those that do. Just like they need me. I recognize that, why can't they? Love my computers and what they do for me.(Iowa State University had the first computer though) I love GPS tracking and the mapping it allows me to do, matching seed varieties to soil type, fertility, drainage, and many other variables. I understand that people working on a single floor in some building number more than the entire town I live in and their work is important. The media lives in their bubble and have no idea about wide swaths of the world.
Yawn. Another day, another round of played-out "interpretations" from self-regarding parochials who haven't had an insight, self or otherwise, since the 1980s.
tim in vermont: Can somebody, anybody, explain to me why Gail Collins has a column in the New York Times? Can anybody tell me one interesting thing she has ever said? One place where she didn’t just spout the general progressive opinion in drab language?
Your second and third questions answer the first.
Nobody with genuinely interesting, erudite, non-party-approved ideas would be writing for the NYT.
I don't listen to Adams but do follow his cartoon and his twitter feed, so his position on mind-reading was on my mind when I commented. I must admit to the error of assuming he and you were in agreement on that point. So I should follow to the biblical commandment about casting out the beam in your eye. :-(
I'd suggest there's a difference between observing a division between red and blue America and believing that Trump is responsible for creating it. IMO the first is a fact, not mind reading, while the second is a belief, a belief which Collins may or may not have but which her language you quoted doesn't support. In my reading, and understanding of her intent/mind, "scary" relates to the division, not the causes of its creation.
I recently read "The Politics of Resentment" by Katherine Cramer, a UWis poli sci prof who did some years of listening sessions with groups of Wisconsinites. (Pre-2016) She finds rural identity/resentment/distrust of urban/college/public servants deeply rooted, and a main support for Walker.
Since I grew up on a farm many years ago, I'm well aware these tensions preceded TRump.
"This is the world Trump has made: Bret Stephens sitting in front of the TV cheering whenever a Republican goes down."
No, this is the world Bret Stephens and his ilk have made. Trump is the backlash from voters who realized that the Bret Stephens' and Gail Collins' of the world hated them, didn't give a damn about their welfare, and were nothing more than a mixture of arrogance, entitlement, and incompetence.
He ought to just go to work flacking for qatar.
Althouse forgot to put "conservative" in irony-quotes, in describing Stephens.
The absolutely worst thing about the internet is that I now have proof that I have to share a nation with people who think like this.
Before the internet, people who thought like this were a mere rumour.
We need those that do. Just like they need me. I recognize that, why can't they?
@ Iowan2
I know. Why can't the people who live in various areas just accept that there are different needs, desires that make people want to live in specific areas without vilifying each other?
I have the benefit of having in many places: a high density city (San Francisco), a suburban area to a large city, a small town, and now a rural area. Because I have lived in those places I feel I can make some valid comparisons, based on my own experiences and choose the best for ME.
I have family and friends who still live in the "city" and the "suburbs". We go to visit on occasion and while I, personally, can't stand the idea of living there again and hate to even be there for a short visit..... I don't cast shade at them for wanting to do so. I'm not going to proselytize them and they know better than to try that on me :-) It just isn't my cup of tea and my life isn't theirs to judge either. (We also don't discuss politics....ever ....anymore)
I call it the urban jungle, but to be real, the rural areas are just as much of a "jungle". Just a different style.
The thing that Trump did was to give a voice to the "ruralites" who have been dismissed, denigrated and defiled for decades. Stomped upon by the masses in the cities. We are tired of it and are thankful to finally have some recognition.
“The thing that Trump did was to give a voice to the "ruralites" who have been dismissed, denigrated and defiled for decades. Stomped upon by the masses in the cities. We are tired of it and are thankful to finally have some recognition.”
Anyone who thinks Trump doesn’t look down his nose at rural people is once deluding themselves about who Trump is. Good grief.
No, this is the world Bret Stephens and his ilk have made. Trump is the backlash from voters who realized that the Bret Stephens' and Gail Collins' of the world hated them, didn't give a damn about their welfare, and were nothing more than a mixture of arrogance, entitlement, and incompetence.”
You’ve described Trump.
“The way the Times is going, Gail Collins is going to be working in a big empty space soon. It's already run by an oligarch. If that sort of thing really scares her, maybe she'll finally squeeze out a metaphor or at least an interesting verb.”
So why is their readership up by more than 25%?
Many of the conflicts in America can be explained by the radically different viewpoints of those who are tall and those who are short. Of course, when discussing these viewpoints, some attention should be paid to those of intermediate height and the ambiguities of their viewpoints.
Inga said: "Anyone who thinks Trump doesn’t look down his nose at rural people is once deluding themselves ..."
Trivia question for you Inga. It's a difficult one for sure. Who said the following:
"They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion"
A) Donald J. Trump
B) Wayne LaPierre
C) Mike Pence
D) Barack the Magnificent
“Collins was positing something about the type of people who live in the sparsely populated areas — why they are there and how they can be used and were used by Trump.”
And indeed they were used and are still being used by Trump.
Inga just illustrates the condescension and snobbish, attitude that is the reason that Trump resonates.
If you don't agree, if you don't kow tow to her opinion, you are deluded, stupid, and in need of possible re-education.
People like Collins and Inga will never ever "get it" (as in understand).
Humpy, if you hated so much that Obama looked his nose down at you, why do you ignore that Trump does the very same thing but makes you dupes believe he isn’t? You project qualities on to him he doesn’t own. He thinks rural people are dumb hicks who believe everything he says....and they seem to do jut that. Take a look at the man you THINK speaks for you. Or if he truly speaks for you people, then you need to take a good hard look at yourselves.
Trump condescends, Trump is a snob. How can you people imagine he isn’t?
Part of the sickness you people have is believing conspiracy and other unbelievable things.
So, Trump losing the House by a fairly narrow margin but expanding GOP control of the Senate is a "repudiation?"
What was it when Obama lost the House and the GOP gained seats in the Senate in 2010?
Treating this as the nation turning its back on Trump is the sort of madness that's going to lead to a second Trump term.
Mike
He thinks rural people are dumb hicks who believe everything he says
Amazing mind reading abilities! You could make a fortune in a traveling carnival. I suggest you pursue this field of work. Get a turban and some sort of big floaty caftan. You will be a hit.
/s
"Nothing would be worse"
Oh, I can think of lots of things that would be worse.
Stephen's is presumably pro Israel, I don't see he how the presence of tlaib and Omar, could be go in that cause.
Dust Bunny Queen said...
Besides....if people didn't live out in the rural areas, where do they [urbanites] think they are going to get their:
food- Whole Foods
lumber- Why would they need lumber? It wouldn't fit in the apartment anyway.
minerals- Whole Foods sells dietary supplements
building supplies- See lumber
power like electricity- A wall outlet. Duh!
natural gas- The pipe behind the stove
oil- The local dispensary sells CBD infused oil.
Now don't you feel stupid?
Whole Foods, Why would they need lumber?,
Blogger Inga...Allie Oop said...
Humpy, if you hated so much that Obama looked his nose down at you, why do you ignore that Trump does the very same thing but makes you dupes believe he isn’t? You project qualities on to him he doesn’t own. He thinks rural people are dumb hicks who believe everything he says....and they seem to do jut that. Take a look at the man you THINK speaks for you. Or if he truly speaks for you people, then you need to take a good hard look at yourselves.
--
Inga's armchair psych practice goes on..with projections about projections.
@ Ignorance is Bliss
LOL. DUH!!!! slaps forehead. Why didn't I think of all that?
“Treating this as the nation turning its back on Trump is the sort of madness that's going to lead to a second Trump term.”
Ha, keep telling yourself this if it makes you feel better. The truth is Trump lost huge swatches of white suburban college educated women (and men) voters, and he won’t win them back, because that would mean he’d be losing you rural people who love his schtick.
Well Romney will probably be a saboteur, Blackburn and Scott will help move the ball along, I can't get a read on Hawley
Bret Stephens is the resident "Cheetah Conservative" at the NYT.
In politics, every body has to be in a category. Nobody gets to just be a person with his or her own thoughts and opinions.
I hope those suburban woman can look forward to higher insurance premium, that's what Pelosis contribution was last time. Its not a wish its reality.
Inga, can you talk to one person about one subject in some sort of exchange or actual dialogue?
How,in particular, through campaigning or domestic and economic policy, lawmaking, executive orders, decorum, foreign policy....is Trump abandoning, say Dust Bunny Queen or deluding her into voting against interests which you seem to know she has? What particular knowledge do you have through your own experience and active thinking from which she might benefit?
Is commenting here entirely a team and tribal sport for you? if you’re here so often but only to serve on an abstract and game-playing level (walking into what you might see as the other team’s locker room) than what do you hope to achieve...why spend so much time engaged in this activity?
Inga couldn't possibly be more condescending and ignorant, could she? Hasn't she read a single thing about Trump--real thing, not vile bitterness Pravda NYT stuff?
Trump has, for decades, hung with the construction workers, the laborers. There are thousands of stories of Trump taking time to talk to the little guy, the guy swinging the hammer or running the elevator. The maid cleaning the room. Unlike Inge's heroes, Trump actually likes common people.
Inga doesn't see, or more likely hates the fact that people do not want their lives run by "the elites" who tell them what to do because the elites are "better" than us peasants. We Americans fought to hang the aristocracy, and Inga and her ilk are trying to do their very best to cram one down our throats. The "elite", the priests-kings of old. Well, more accurately the Priestcrafts of old. The people who proclaim they must be supported by the peasantry via taxes while they walk around in jeweled suits with mincing hands telling us what to do, and getting paid by us to do so. They claimed to speak for a higher power in those days-- Baal, Moloch, Tlaloc. Now they speak for "Climate Change" and "diversity." Bugger that. What makes Inga elite? Or Bret Stephans, or Gail Collins, or Chuck? Nothing at all--they are not elite. They are not more educated (even if they have a degree in gender studies). They are not better than us at all. The new leftist "Elites" are moral vacuums, hypocrites to the max, despicable, deplorable, and shouldn't be allowed to run a dog catcher operation, let alone anyone else's lives. All you have to do is look at who our leftists revere--Che Guevara, Harvey Milk, Mao, Stalin, Castro, Ho Chi Min, Pol Pot, Roman Polanski, etc and you'll realize how utterly bankrupt, vile, and evil the left really is. They despise Jesus Christ and adore Karl Marx and Josef Stalin. They literally worship Obama, who didn't have the sense to reject it like Roman Emperors of old.
And yet Inga persists in claiming moral superiority. Well, if your ideal life is slaughtering your baby and living in an orgy of debauchery (like apparently NBC is), then she can be "superior." As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.
I say this because I hope to benefit from viewpoints which are often different from my own...but your comments tend to be very, very predictable (as are many others) and your reasons apparent afterthoughts to a game-playing role where point-scoring is the objective.
Even old Red Robert Cooke strikes me as a more fully developed human being through his comments and his predictably socialist critique.
Can you not just play capture the flag?
Blogger Bill Harshaw said...
I recently read "The Politics of Resentment" by Katherine Cramer, a UWis poli sci prof who did some years of listening sessions with groups of Wisconsinites. (Pre-2016) She finds rural identity/resentment/distrust of urban/college/public servants deeply rooted
--
Oh..those "listening sessions" must have been interesting.
She was no doubt in a great position to interpret objectively.
.why spend so much time engaged in this activity?
[putting on my turban and caftan] Because she is a lonely old lady whose children are all grown and have lives of their own. She is starved for attention. Even negative attention is welcome.......
[gazing deeply into the magic mirror] I sense too much brandy in her morning coffee.
“Democrats received almost as many midterms votes as Trump in presidential election – results show it's a 'a crazy number'
Highest turnout since 1914 sees party come within touching distance of presidential popular vote tally.”
Nate Silver
Nate Silver
@NateSilver538
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Nov 18
There's not any precedent for an opposition party coming this close to matching the president's vote total from 2 years earlier. The closest to an exception was when Democratic House candidates in 1970 got 92% of Nixon's vote total from 1968.
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Nate Silver
Nate Silver
@NateSilver538
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Nov 18
Of course, this reflects 3 things we already knew: 1) Trump was elected despite losing the popular vote; 2) D's won by a big margin this year and 3) Turnout was VERY high.
But Trump is a very unpopular president, and I don't think that's totally sunk in yet in how he's covered.
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About 60 million people turned out to vote for Democrats for the House this year. That is a **crazy** number. (Republicans got 45m votes in the 2010 wave.)
And this was sort of missed. Why so many stories about Trump voters in truck stops and not so many about "the resistance"?
11:12 AM · Nov 18, 2018
Vance said: Trump has, for decades, hung with the construction workers, the laborers. There are thousands of stories of Trump taking time to talk to the little guy, the guy swinging the hammer or running the elevator. The maid cleaning the room. Unlike Inge's heroes, Trump actually likes common people.
Vance makes a good point. Trump, while being rich, also comes from working stock people. His father was a hard scrabble construction/real estate developer. His mother was a naturalized Scottish immigrant from a poor fishing village.
Mary Anne MacLeod was born in a pebbledash croft house owned by her father since 1895 in Tong on the Isle of Lewis.[4] Local historians and genealogists have described properties in this community at the time as "indescribably filthy" and characterized by "human wretchedness".[5][6] The outbreak of World War I weakened its economy and male population.[4]
Raised in a Scottish Gaelic-speaking household, Mary was the youngest of ten children born to Malcolm MacLeod (1866–1954) and Mary MacLeod (née Smith; 1867–1963).[7] Her father was a crofter, fisherman and compulsory officer at Mary's school.[4][2][8][9] English was her second language, which she learned at the school she attended until eighth grade.[4] wikipedia
His Grandfather was a German immigrant and through his own efforts became sucessful
Frederick Trump was a German-American businessman and the patriarch of the Trump family. Born in Kallstadt, in the Kingdom of Bavaria, he immigrated to the United States at the age of 16 and started working as a barber. Several years later, in 1891, he moved to the Northwest. He made his fortune by operating restaurants and boarding houses in Seattle and the mining town Monte Cristo, and brothels in the Klondike Gold Rush. Entrepenuer, whether you like it or not.
Hardly patrician roots.
Trump has connections to the common man and was likely scorned by the NY upper crust. (Note..I am not reading his mind...just guessing)
“...putting on my turban and caftan] Because she is a lonely old lady whose children are all grown and have lives of their own. She is starved for attention. Even negative attention is welcome.......
[gazing deeply into the magic mirror] I sense too much brandy in her morning coffee.”
As I said, you folks succumb to the sickness of believing nonsense.
Inga: "As I said, you folks succumb to the sickness of believing nonsense"
Why cant we just believe obviously true things, such as hilariously fake golden showers hoax dossiers prepared by a foreign agent workibg with Putin cronies?
You know, like Inga.
And we know what happened in 1972 don't we?
narciso: "And we know what happened in 1972 don't we?"
Inga cant remember what happened 24 hours ago and you are bringing up 1972?
Good luck with that.
Vance said...
As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.
11/20/18, 9:36 AM
Bullshit. At best, you will act on mix of vile, malicious misreading of religious texts with socially acquired viciousness.
Blogger Jim Daniels said...
"Trump lost huge swatches of white suburban college educated women (and men) voters, and he won’t win them back, because that would mean he’d be losing you rural people who love his schtick."
I'm a suburban college educated (dual degree from U of Penn and master's degree) guy with a deployment to Kandahar AFG as a PSYOP specialist and voted straight Republican because the party supported by dingbats like you, Inga, is full of smug ignoramuses, preening activist loudmouths, poorly read morons, and shrill pompous mental cases who shouldn't be allowed the reins of power at any level whatsoever. And the rural people I've worked with are more sophisticated, intelligent, and hardworking than you ever will be, you arrogant crone. But please, continue copying and pasting other people's thoughts. We're all highly impressed by what you try to pass off as sophisticated thinking. Dipshit.
11/20/18, 10:04 AM
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Ahahahahahahahaha what a li'l baby!
Oh fuck off Craig you little pussy.
Blogger Jim Daniels said...
Oh fuck off Craig you little pussy.
11/20/18, 10:12 AM
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You know you love this, Jimmy. You know it. It gives you a chance to show off that "U of Penn" degree! But I'll confess that I'm hurt. Only one insult for me after that poetic string for Inga?! I suppose you got busy doing Important Work.
Interesting, because, that is exactly how rural people view the strange people who wish to live in the crowded urban jungles divorced from nature. Full of neuroses, character flaws and why the HELL do you want to live that way anywhooo?
Since living in the country (vs. city) i’ve found people to be nicer, kinder and more level headed - and more interesting. And if there are crazies, they are a long way from you and can be avoided quite easily.
City people, on the other hand...the crazy is documented every day in news and fiction.
Killer argument there, Craig.
"Since living in the country (vs. city) i’ve found people to be nicer, kinder and more level headed - and more interesting. And if there are crazies, they are a long way from you and can be avoided quite easily."
The difference between Austin and Williamson County is telling.
Blogger Paco Wové said...
Killer argument there, Craig.
11/20/18, 10:19 AM
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Thanks Frank!
The people who don't choose to crowd together in urban areas are wary, suspicious creatures, and Trump figured out how to activate them by playing upon the character flaws and neuroses that were the reason they were living out there in the first place.
Ann and many of her non-elite white readers illustrate this, refusing to open the front door and cowering in fear before the advance of the Honduran caravan. The non-elite whites have largely abandoned the courage many of their ancestors showed when they went to war to free the slaves and defeat Nazi tyranny. Now their hero president is afraid to go out in the rain, much less visit the troops.
It's worth noting that it's doubtful that any of the readers who like Ann vilify the editors of the New York Times actually know anyone who works in mainstream journalism, much less themselves be qualified to even apply for a job as an editor at the Times. Besides, how scary would it be, having to work near Times Square? And ride the subway?! Scaaaary!
Maybe living and working in NYC is overrated and obnoxious and people just choose to live elsewhere for a variety of reasons?
Besides, how scary would it be, having to work near Times Square? And ride the subway?! Scaaaary!
Not necessarily scary. Mostly just gross, dirty, disgusting, noisy and smelly. Certain times of the night, yes...scary. You take a cab or go in a group with other people.
refusing to open the front door and cowering in fear before the advance of the Honduran caravan.
Are you a mind reader too, like Inga? How cool!
We rarely lock our doors or close the gate at the end of the drive during the day, unless we are going away for a few days. Our cars and trucks are unlocked while we are home or are around on the property, often with the keys in the ignition or consoles. We do take the key out of the tractor/backhoe and lawn tractor unless we are using them. The keys from the vehicles are removed when we are gone away.
The "caravan" of illegal aliens isn't likely to get up here. Why would they want to? Too cold and not much in the way of freebies that they can latch onto.
The biggest scary dealio that I have to deal with is a possible mountain lion or coyote pack if I have to go outside at dusk or dawn. (at which time, we are armed)
vilify the editors of the New York Times actually know anyone who works in mainstream journalism,
You don't have to know someone personally to recognize poor writing. We vilify the editors because they don't seem to know the rules of writing or grammar. That IS their job for which they get paid some big buck, unlike those of us amateurs who are just randomly posting on the internet.
Blogger Jim Daniels said...
"It gives you a chance to show off that "U of Penn" degree!"
Yep. Worked hard for it and proud of it. Certainly not going to apologize for it in the face of insults from a one-dimensional douche like you Craigy.
11/20/18, 10:41 AM
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Don't forget: I'm a douche _and_ a pussy, JD! That's a powerful combination--certainly not one-dimensional! Your quick wit and deep insight must have been such a pleasure to the "U of Penn" faculty lucky enough to have been graced by li'l James's presence.
Blogger Dust Bunny Queen said...
vilify the editors of the New York Times actually know anyone who works in mainstream journalism,
You don't have to know someone personally to recognize poor writing. We vilify the editors because they don't seem to know the rules of writing or grammar. That IS their job for which they get paid some big buck, unlike those of us amateurs who are just randomly posting on the internet.
11/20/18, 10:42 AM
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"You know, obviously you missed the point of that story, Brian."
Bret Stephens has never really been a conservative, but is rather a left-leaning opportunist. He used to write for The Wall Street Journal, and on that op-ed page he, of course, tailored his essays to fit that paper. Once he got the gig at The New York Times, he could drop most of the pretense except for the label itself.
We should all predict the date for when the NYT will hire an illegal immigrant [one who is out and proud but not necessarily in a gay way] as a columnist.
longstanding distrust that Trump has made truly poisonous
I think the NYT guy got it backwards: it's a longstanding distrust that made Trump.
There are single-celled organisms with more self awareness than Gail Collins and Bret Stephens.
"Trump lost huge swatches of white suburban college educated women (and men) voters, and he won’t win them back, because that would mean he’d be losing you rural people who love his schtick."
I hate stuff like this. Why in the world would suburban college educated women all vote alike? I am this woman, and I have lots of these women as friends, and they all have quite different opinions than me about a lot of things.
If, say, 54% of women grouped like this vote one way, does that make the other 46% less than, in some way?
This separating out in public is horrible. It comes with marketing, but at least Tide just tries to appeal to their target market. They don't say "We are the clothes cleaning pods of suburban educated white women." or "Real black people buy Gain".
Conservative compared to who?
I wonder what Bret Stephens would say if 5,000 Americans announced that they were loading up their pickup trucks and convoying down to Guatemala, to live there permanently. No visas, no permission from the Mexican or Guatemalan government, no money, nothing. They were just going to do it.
As long as there have been cities, there have been city slickers, who make their living by trade, rather than production. They have always looked down on the rural population that feeds them as crude and unsophisticated, and the rural population has always mistrusted them as people who will rob you with a pen.
Wasn’t Gail Collins the person who continually brought up Mitt Romney’s “dog on the car” story during 2012? Deep thinker, that one.
"The people who don't choose to crowd together in urban areas are wary, suspicious creatures,"
Every study I have seen where animals are put in an overcrowded situation says the exact opposite of this.
re walter
I think she did a reasonably good job in reporting what she heard--a good third of the book is likely transcripts: rural residents believe that Madison/Milwaukee areas get a disproportionate share of public money, much of which goes to the undeserving; public servants are overpaid and under worked, don't know the real meaning of work; people in the UofWis and similar types don't know or understand those who grew up and live in rural areas. "Public servants" applies both to local, state, and federal employees. Surprising to me, perhaps reflecting the geography of Wisconsin--there's a big divide between the summer residents with their vacation cabins, etc. and the permanent residents. Another thing new to me--the DNR (Department of Natural Resources)--lots of conflict there.
That's off the top of my head--the book's already back in the library.
Those are the same sorts of sentiments my mother, born in the 19th century, would voice. Do you think there's anything new to be added to the list?
I recently had a long car ride with the father of one of my child's classmates. For some reason, he decided to talk politics. It turns out we are in complete agreement on almost everything - even hot button culture-war issues like abortion. Yet, he is a staunch Democrat and I'm a staunch Republican. We are both white suburbanites. I've had similar experiences countless times, with men and women of all races, religions, and backgrounds.
There are, of course, real divisions in our country. Gail Collins and Bret Stephens don't even seem to have the vocabulary to articulate what they are.
pacwest said...
"The people who don't choose to crowd together in urban areas are wary, suspicious creatures,"
Every study I have seen where animals are put in an overcrowded situation says the exact opposite of this.
11/20/18, 11:19 AM
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Bullshit.
Oh my goodness Craig, you can do better than that.
Inga responded: "Humpy, if you hated so much that Obama looked his nose down at you, why do you ignore that Trump does the very same thing but makes you dupes believe he isn’t? You project qualities on to him he doesn’t own. He thinks rural people are dumb hicks who believe everything he says....and they seem to do jut that. Take a look at the man you THINK speaks for you. Or if he truly speaks for you people, then you need to take a good hard look at yourselves."
You have achieved a status not many have reached. That would be Ritmo status. That is - ignore everything you write. Your responses are so bereft of any cogent thought that it wastes my time (and yours).
Blogger Annie C said...
Oh my goodness Craig, you can do better than that.
11/20/18, 11:40 AM
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Indeed! But why give gold in exchange for bullshit...
One more reason to detest the NYT. Not that I needed one.
Craigs says bullshit to overcrowding of animal populations causing abnormal behavior.
Howso Craig? Every study I've seen says so. You know of others?
What is the point of coming to this site simply to be an asshole and shit stirrer? There are a couple of people in this thread who are making no attempt to add to the conversation, and simply show up to toss insults. I don't get it...I admit I'm no angel, but I'm usually trying to at least make a point.
Are people's lives really that sad?
“I hate stuff like this. Why in the world would suburban college educated women all vote alike? I am this woman, and I have lots of these women as friends, and they all have quite different opinions than me about a lot of things.”
Who used the word “ALL”? Why do you people tend to misrepresent what others here say, I hate that stuff like that. I am a college educated suburban white woman and I have many women friends in the same boat who absolutely despise Trump and it seems that a huge amount of them came out to vote against Trumpism. The Blue Wave was a slap in the face of Trumpism.
“Trump lost huge swatches of white suburban college educated women (and men) voters, and he won’t win them back, because that would mean he’d be losing you rural people who love his schtick."
> which is a conversation between him and the liberal NYT columnist Gail Collins, who responds, "This is the world Trump has made: Bret Stephens sitting in front of the TV cheering whenever a Republican goes down."
No matter what anyone says, no matter the excuse or explanation, whatever a person does in the end is what he intended to do all along. – Cus D'Amato
(greatest boxing mentor ever)
Not all people have the same tastes. Ergo, its great that we have so many different places in which people can choose to live.
But its hard for bubblers to imagine those with different tastes who choose to do things differently than the bubblers think best. Surely their tastes are superior in all ways.
i wonder if one reason for TDS is Trump was and should be a Democrat, given his city roots and upbringing. The fact that he is more at home with the rank and file stings the elites’ egos. They are not the people he wants to shmoo with unless he needs them for a deal. I would be miffed too!
I 100% believe the Trump MAGA agenda is about lifting everyone’s lifelong prospects - urban or rural - through jobs and responsible behavior. All are welcome...
What a load of BS, we moved from the SF Bay Area five years ago to the Sierra foothills. I have never had such caring neighbors. Some like us, have fled the urban corporate world. I know this will come as a shock to Inga but rural folks attend college too. Animal husbandry/ranching/farming requires a great deal of specialized knowledge and is data and computer oriented.
I'd also like to see Inga do the math of planting 200 acres to turn a profit, or program a GPS driven harvester or plan the next breeding of pure bred animals. Some of my neighbors have horses that are worth more than a Ferrari...they didn't just pop out one day by chance. A neighbor who breeds thoroughbreds is a walking genetic data bank and meets with top breeders world-wide. Another is an arborist with an advanced degree from UC Davis specializing in fruit and nut trees. Throw in a couple of homesteading organic veggie growers and a spry 82 yr old who lives alone and works her ranch. Oh and our local farrier has competed and won awards for her custom knives. We also have a spattering of competition western and dressage riders.
I can honesty say that the only thing I miss is Berkeley's Acme Company bread and I've learned to make a dang good sourdough loaf.
Apart from the peace and quiet, the best part of country living is the dark night skies.
In other news:
http://thefederalist.com/2018/11/19/need-know-lawsuit-trumps-new-asylum-policies/
A normal, mid-term correction - combined with more than 40 Republican retirements in the House - is not a wave. It's a normal, mid-term correction.
Get back to me when the Ds actually flip 63 House seats.
Oh, and keep all their Senate seats.
The Blue Wave was a slap in the face of Trumpism.
Like the Red Wave of 2012 was a slap in the face of Obamaism?
Inga couldn't possibly be more condescending and ignorant, could she?
Yes. She can.
Just watch.
Other than tribalism, what could explain support for the Chicago Bears? They have been terrible (with two exceptions) since the 1940s. And the Cubs! Don’t get me started on them. And how about those Detroit Lions?
This all goes back to some prehistoric urge first felt around some fire in Kenya a million years ago. It is beyond reason. F**k the Packers.
It's worth noting that it's doubtful that any of the readers who like Ann vilify the editors of the New York Times actually know anyone who works in mainstream journalism, much less themselves be qualified to even apply for a job as an editor at the Times. - Pickering
And you would be wrong. As usual.
"The poor slub can't see the forest for the trees. Why the wall is just another infrastructure project. OOOOkay."
I frankly think the wall is kind of dumb. More theater than real reform.
"an orgy of debauchery"
Hmmm ... I'll have to mull this over.
"t's worth noting that it's doubtful that any of the readers who like Ann vilify the editors of the New York Times actually know anyone who works in mainstream journalism, much less themselves be qualified to even apply for a job as an editor at the Times. - Pickering"
Whatever, Chuck. ; )
Yep hold my laager:
https://amgreatness.com/2018/11/19/big-medias-power-games-and-the-khashoggi-affair/
The so-called "blue wave" was a desperate act and plea for redistributive change to aid and comfort progressive and liberals who were suddenly responsible for the corruption, dysfunction, and concentration of high-density population centers, dysfunctional orientations, Planned Parenthood, and the collateral damage from a rising anti-nativism.
Blogger pacwest said...
Craigs says bullshit to overcrowding of animal populations causing abnormal behavior.
Howso Craig? Every study I've seen says so. You know of others?
11/20/18, 11:57 AM
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That's not what I said bullshit to. Good luck buddy.
Bret Stephens is NYT's token conservative, just as George Soros was NSDAP's token Jew.
Who used the word “ALL”? Why do you people tend to misrepresent what others here say, I hate that stuff like that. I am a college educated suburban white woman and I have many women friends in the same boat who absolutely despise Trump and it seems that a huge amount of them came out to vote against Trumpism. The Blue Wave was a slap in the face of Trumpism.
OK: about what you did say--
Do all of your friends hate Trump, or just many of them do? Did your friends who don't despise Trump vote Republican? Are your friends who don't hate Trump buying into the schtick the rural people do? Did any of your friends vote Democrat but don't despise Trump? What does Trumpism mean to you, and to your friends who voted both for and against Republicans (is Scott Walker included in being a 'Trumpist'?). Do your friends who like Trump talk to you about him?
Why do you think we talk about white women suburban voters as a group at all? I think breaking us into percentages over and over during election cycles is divisive and harmful to us as a nation.
Inga said:Who used the word “ALL”? Why do you people tend to misrepresent what others here say, I hate that stuff like that.
As far as misrepresenting what you said, I'm really using it more as a jumping off point. How is it meaningful in any way - and the media is obsessed with this- how people in the groups they create vote? As I was trying to say, they say Trump lost "white women suburban voters". But he didn't. He lost some. White women suburban voters aren't an entity that can be lost. We are individuals.
"Wasn’t Gail Collins the person who continually brought up Mitt Romney’s 'dog on the car' story during 2012? Deep thinker, that one."
She's the one, Gunner. But for God's sake do NOT call her a shill for the Hive.
From Bloomberg: The oil price is now controlled by just three men. Bin Salman, Trump and Putin are calling the market shots. The prince may struggle to defend output cuts against a hostile Trump and indifferent Putin.
Somehow, Bloomberg's economists fail to see that the three authoritarians with such awesome power are also money-hungry racketeers who work to cover each other's backs. Now we know why Trump refuses to accept actions against his buddies to the extent that he attacks his own law-enforcing agencies.
What needs to be done are "follow the money" investigations into the lives and times of MBS, DJT and VVP.
The people who don't choose to crowd together in urban areas are wary, suspicious creatures,"
Every study I have seen where animals are put in an overcrowded situation says the exact opposite of this.
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What exactly did you say bullshit to then Craig? Overcrowded animals are wary and suspicious beyond their normal behavior. Every study shows this. The exact opposite of what John Pickering asserted.
I'm not trying to connect city behavior to the Dem's current behavoir here, although a case could probably be made, just trying to correct a false assertion.
Let me think- which area do you find houses where people routinely leave the doors unlocked: urban or rural setting. Yet this guy says that people who don't choose to crowd together in urban areas are wary, suspicious creatures. Has this guy heard of New York City?
High-density population centers are favored by businesses and for democratic leverage (e.g. gerrymandered votes). They are unsustainable without external energy, food, water, and other resources. High-density population centers are first-order forcings of the anthropogenic heat island effect. These are some of the reasons for the left's one-time one-child policy and the progressive selective-child policy.
urban areas are wary, suspicious creatures
Out of context, yes; but, a fair characterization of the urban jungle for residents who are beneficiaries of the social trickle effect. The combination of high-density, low resource, and diversity (i.e. color judgments), sustain a liberal environment with clear and progressive consequences.
Gadfly wrote:
Somehow, Bloomberg's economists fail to see that the three authoritarians with such awesome power are also money-hungry racketeers who work to cover each other's backs.
It's like you've forgotten about the sloppy blow jobs Obama gave the mullahs.
The math was simple. Even though Dems had a lot of seats “at risk” in the Senate. The incumbency prevailed, mostly. Most of non-incumbent flips were towards the Repubs.
40+ house GOP retired making it easier for Dems to pick up. If you like the orange man, I sort of do — his actions not his mouth, then it was not that bad. Else at least now I hope not to have to roll my eyes at all those whiny Dems I have met at weekend parties, since 2016
Wow! what a great post.
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