“If being a star athlete is inherently a political experience, ‘Shut Up and Dribble’ tells that complex and dramatic story from the past to the present and from the inside out,” said [Showtime president and CEO David Nevins]. “LeBron James is one of many competitors whose place in the spotlight has led not to silence but perspective, and he [and the other executive producers]... have given us an important, insightful docuseries that should bring their fans and fellow citizens to a higher level of discourse, rather than the dismissal satirized in the title.”Reading between the lines, I see the criticism that the whole project is sort of fake and simply an occasion to take the old insult — "Shut Up and Dribble" — and lob it back into the political discourse right when we're already talking about LeBron James. But somewhere there's the idea of "a higher level of discourse," which sounds like a documentary no one would watch. And yet it's worth making an unwatched documentary if its existence is seen and talked about.
But that kind of talk is, ironically, the lower level of discourse. And that's okay*, because we're human beings having it out, and we're not shutting up. Civility bullshitters may say to a participant in the low-level discourse, shut up and dribble, shut up and leave the talking to boring polite people, shut up (don't tweet) and get back to the job we elected you to do, etc. etc. But the lower level discourse will go on, and it should. I support it. We are low, most of the time.
I have no idea what the Showtime series is actually supposed to be about. Athletes that get involved in politics and the people who try to shush them? But I'm not the one to have ideas about sports documentaries. I don't know if I've ever watched one, and documentaries are my favorite type of movie. I watch all sorts of documentaries, often just because they're documentaries that got great reviews, and yet I didn't go to see "Hoop Dreams" or "When We Were Kings." I'm reading lists of greatest sports documentaries, and I can't find one that I've seen. Ah, wait. If "Touching the Void" counts, I've seen (and loved) that. But that fits the category survival. A favorite topic. Ah. I've seen "Pumping Iron." Long ago.
_______________
* "And that's okay" is a trademark Trump expression, a wonderful component of the low-level discourse of today. What I love about it is that he'll recount attacks on himself and then use "and that's okay" as a transition to the next thought. To my ear, it says: Yeah, big deal, they're attacking me, what else is new, I get it, I can take it, it's actually rather lame, because here's what I've got on them....
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७८ टिप्पण्या:
I'm sure Ingraham likes the exposure, too.
Dribble sounds like a smashing of tipple and drool.
Rush Limbaugh has articulated why people HATE the politicization of sports. People love sports because it has none of the aspects of regular life. They can forget their problems and for 2-4 hours be irrationally in love with and cheer for their team.
I would add that there is a tribal aspect to this. Nebraska is a giant state, but the football Cornhuskers unites the state like nothing else. The excitement with the new coach is off the charts.
Being a minority as a Creighton alum, it is a fun to banter with my fellow Nebraskans as Creighton dominates the Corn in basketball.
The upshot of what James is doing is that about half of the fan base will tune out the NBA. I only watch college basketball and it is a superior product to the NBA.
Some of ESPN's 30 for 30 short films are good. I hate Christian Laettner is very good.
This one on Pulasky Academy is good.
but the phrase, shut and dribble; meant
Just because you're good at basketball; why should that mean you're good at geo-politics?
No one (at least not Laura or i) is saying that basketballers shouldn't Have opinions...
They're saying that Stopping and Listening to (or, GOD forbid giving a TV show to,) a basketballer is the definition of Lower discourse.
Why is Le Bron's opinion worth listening too?
A) ALL opinions are worth listening too, and we have infinite time/space to listen to them all
B) HE's a basketballer, and we should base OUR opinions around theirs
C) HE's a media superstar, and we should base OUR opinion around theirs
D) Trump hates him, so do we!!!
E) he has interesting and insightful things to say
One of these pontential choices is NOT like the others. IT would be the reason for Le Bron to stop dribbling (drawing cartoons, teaching college) and start talking to us. More specifically, it would be the reason for us to listen: IT's also Not True
Not sure whether you have a point Professor. IMO, celebrities (film/TV/music/sport) have great influence with little or no standing or accountability. LeBron James deserves acclaim for his accomplishments in sport and support of his communities. However, he has insulted the president repeatedly. Tuff shit if he gets insulted back.
Ingraham said it when — after the 2018 NBA Finals
Actually, the it is a variation on a phrase she said many years ago after getting politics at some concert, when she said, "Shut up and sing." She said it a lot. Enough that it was the title of a book she wrote.
Said enough that "Shut up and dribble" probably can be claimed as her legal trademark.
Trout Unlimited decided that Trout Fishing should be about the Politics of the left.
Trout Unlimited wonders Why people aren't joining their organization
Meanwhile, Lonely trouts are swimming by themselves, WISHING that they had the chance to refuse someone's poorly presented fly. But the people are at home, 'cause they don't like Politics (or, they're at home 'cause they do). Millions of Lonely trouts are being denied the opportunity to make fishers feel like incompetent fools. This is NOT fair to the trouts!
> should bring their fans and fellow citizens to a higher level of discourse
Yes Mr James, fill the room with your knowledge
- Prof Kingsfield
LeBron is a very intelligent man who has demanded and acquired billionaire's status from leveraging a superstar NBA career that has made him into a TV celebrity. But politics is not his best sport.
This Variety article makes the documentary sound very boring. Catchy title but nothing of substance from the article. If it’s just guys like LeBron bashing Trump (LeBron also bashed W back in the day and is a big Obama fan in case there was any doubt LeBron is just a typical liberal celebrity), then it will be a snore. LeBron has more time for this stuff now that he’s at the end of his career and is playing with a weak team that is going nowhere. Plenty of time to transition his brand into politics or social commentary as well as Hollywood production.
As for the NBA, it will be the Warriors and the Celtics for the next few years. Then a new group of young superstars will take over who won’t care about what that old man LeBron has to say
I've been a Cavaliers fan for 40 years and never much liked James. He's a great player and won a lot of games, but as a person, he's a typical selfish arrogant schmuck athlete. He came in on a "home town boy plays for hometown team" media blitz but has acted throughout his career as just another hired gun.
This project is the epitome of the all too common phenomenon of "experts" pontificating outside their expertise. What is it with these people that they always think, just because someone sticks a microphone in their face, they therefore must have something to say?
Most of them aren't even educated, but they're social and political philosophers because they're famous.
But that kind of talk is, ironically, the lower level of discourse
You're referring to the criticism of the project? It's early and I didn't sleep.
A documentary about their off-court lives could be interesting if it's honest (and short). More about what they do and how they're treated than what they think, which is mostly about sports.
I just watched a Netflix documentary on the wartime documentaries of 5 famous directors. It was surprising how many flopped. Guess people wanted escapism in their (non-sports) arenas in a stressful time, or theater owners thought so.
People love sports for several reasons and none of them are politics. Where the LeBrons and ESPNs of the world go wrong is the same way that Hollywood goes wrong: merging pop culture icons with presumed expertise on policy prescriptions.
40 or more years ago, this was just not done. Boundaries existed because nobody thought politics should pervade our existence 24x7.
And yet here we are. It sucks.
All I notice from the kerfuffle, is the leftists breathless attempts to make the Presidents tweets as proof of racism. Forget about the fact that the President ALWAYS defends himself against attackers.
President Trump is not a politician, he will never be one, nor attempt to act like one. This is part of the reason the President doesn't have a huge communication team. He does it himself. A real politician has a Comms team that spends 24 hours digesting if something should be responded to, who should do it, and what the response should be. Arrange the appropriate surrogate. A university prof, retired govt official, leadership politician, etc. , someone that allows the message to be delivered without the President getting his own hands dirty, plausible deniability of the response goes sour. This is centuries of conventional wisdom.
President Trump is not a politician.
The media is too stupid to understand this fact.
David Begley, I know firsthand how the state of Nebraska supports Cornhuskers football. In fact, I have driven westbound on I-80 out on the Nebraska panhandle before dawn on game days and have seen firsthand all of the cars (decked out with Husker themes) heading for Lincoln.
To be accurate, Trump never invited James or the Cavaliers to the White House because they never won the NBA championship during Trump’s Presidency. James said he and his teammates wouldn’t go if invited and the joke among NBA fans was that James had no reason to turn down an invitation since the Warriors were going to win. And the Warriors won again.
The tiff between Steph Curry, Steve Kerr/the Warriors and Trump is an actual tiff since the Warriors have now won two NBA titles during the Trump presidency. I guess Trump and the Eagles had a tiff as well. The Astros visited the White House without incident. Perhaps Hillary can host the runner-up teams like the Cavs at her place in Chappaqua
gilbar said...
Trout Unlimited decided that Trout Fishing should be about the Politics of the left.
Trout Unlimited wonders Why people aren't joining their organization
Meanwhile, Lonely trouts are swimming by themselves, WISHING that they had the chance to refuse someone's poorly presented fly. But the people are at home, 'cause they don't like Politics (or, they're at home 'cause they do). Millions of Lonely trouts are being denied the opportunity to make fishers feel like incompetent fools. This is NOT fair to the trouts!
O'Sullivan's Law: Any organization or enterprise that is not expressly right wing will become left wing over time.
“The Two Escobars” from ESPN was the only sports doc I can think of that ever left much of an impression on me.
Speaking of the shut up and dribble, isn't this a play on the old western movies where they had a saloon scene and the bad guys shot their pistols at the stage and said, shut up and dance?
I like documentaries too, but only the ones about stuff, people, & events that I know very little about. LeBron James has been in the spotlight since he was an early teen basketball phenom, what could I possibly learn that would be of interest in this documentary. If it is that he has a 'perspective' on politics, the political, and the issues of the day well, then, I'll pass. He's a professional basketball player, what does he know about such things?
-sw
LeBron seems like a nice guy with class. You can’t say the same for a lot of NBA players.
civility bullshitter vs. civility bullshit artist
About two weeks ago Laura Ingraham had a segment on The Angle calling the Democrats "a cult".
Just sayin'.
http://thecrackemcee.tk
All part of Dennis Prager's theory that the left ruins everything it touches.
Sports used to be an area where you never thought about race or other divisions. Growing up in a diverse NJ town (one third black), we played all sports with Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, Gays (LOL who knows?) and never thought about it. Likewise, we stood shoulder to shoulder in stadiums and bars rooting for the Yankees, Giants, Knicks and Rangers (OKOK, there weren't any Blacks, Hispanics or Asians at the hockey games). Sports were an area where you did not think about politics, but just rooted for your team with whoever else was a fan.
Now we get the political bullshit; between ESPN being all left all the time and football players shitting on the National Anthem, and basketball players refusing to meet with the President (to be honored), they've fucked it all up. And it's all brought on by the left.
James is just another leftist. And he's wrong about everything. Trayvon Martin for crying out loud - idiot. How did he get to be such an ignorant leftist without going to college?
The only sport I've followed in recent years is football and last year I boycotted the NFL. I anticipate the same this year. They managed to ruin something I loved.
Well done, Crack. Really well done!
http://thecrackemcee.tk
The leftists also try to smear the President for dissing the School that LeBron built, even though Lebrons attack and the President's response mention the school.
I suppose this is a bad time to talk about people that are to stupid to learn from others mistakes? Pouring money into the Public education infrastructure is a failure. Ask Mark Zuckerberg. Another insanely successful person in his very narrow field of knowledge. Zuckerberg put up $100 million along with Newark Mayor,(wait for it...) Cory Booker's $100 million of tax payer money, to make the Newark Schools best in the nation. It failed. Not a soul would ask LeBron what he reads to get get his news, or ask him how his money will be better spent than Zuckerbergs. I have yet to see an interview that asks LeBron questions that would show LeBron has based is decisions on critical thinking skills. Best to feed his ego, not delve into those things he voices opinions on, but might just be repeating smart sounding talking points. Like the new darling of the Democrat Party,Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez has proven to be a slightly less agile intellect than Alexa, Amazon's "smart device" that repeats programmed answers, but cant actually "think".
"'But that kind of talk is, ironically, the lower level of discourse' You're referring to the criticism of the project?..."
I'm referring to the idea in the previous sentence, which is: "And yet it's worth making an unwatched documentary if its existence is seen and talked about."
When you have a project -- like a TV show or a book -- you can then have people in media talking about it. No one needs to watch or read the show/book, but its existence forces a subject into the public discourse. LeBron James can get on to many shows, ostensibly to talk about the show, but no one needs to watch it. But the "Shut Up and Dribble" idea will be all over the place, in the low discourse (whether the show itself is on a higher level or not).
I think of that movie at the core of the Citizens United case, "Hillary: The Movie." The movie was the basis for an ad promoting the movie and the ad worked as an anti-Hillary ad more than as something that would really drum up attendance at the movie. The movie didn't need to be seen at all, because the ad about the movie did the work.
Or take the book "Rush Limbaugh Is a Big, Fat Idiot" by Al Franken. Yeah, some people might have actually read the book, but the book functioned extremely well just by existing. The title grabbed your attention memorable, and what could have been just a sign — who would post that sign and where? — was a book cover, so it got displayed at the front table at Borders and Al Franken could go on all sorts of shows and make his points. The book worked to get attention and access, without anyone needing to read it.
“That’s your problem. You went full Scott Adams. Never go ‘full Scott Adams ‘.”
Many of the "30 for 30" docs on ESPN are very good, some are great (in terms of finding you actually want to watch something you had no interest in). "When We Were Kings" is outstanding, with some very memorable latter-day commentary from Foreman.
Try reading "A Season on the Brink" by John Feinstein. Having grown up in the Louisville metro area, which has a substantial no. of IU fans that sports news coverage wants to reach, I saw a LOT of coverage of Knight and IU basketball. Love him or hate him or don't care about him, I'd bet your opinion/impression of him will be different after reading that book.
From CBS Sports (sorry, forgot to save the link):
The series, set to air in October and presented by Showtime Sports Documentary Films and James' SpringHill Entertainment, will look at the role of NBA players in politics, commerce and fashion, starting with the 1976 ABA merger and moving into the modern league.
"Shut up and Dribble" could be interesting. I think it would be even better if it were about the treatment of athletes by institutions starting from Catholic high schools that recruit them from other surrounding schools to college and then to the pros. Do they get a good education at those Catholic high schools, or do they get passed through without learning anything, just so they can still provide manpower for a winning team? We pretty much know that's how college athletics work. And what happens to the players who don't become superstars? Or even minor stars?
LeBron's political game is one-dimensional. He only goes left.
The Esquire list should be ignored. Read the first sentence of the author's description of "No No: A Dockumentary" to see why.
Everything LeBron does is calculated to improve his image. I doubt he comes up with any of it I suspect it is all done by his PR team, which is a very good one. Since returning to Ohio, he has worked hard to mend the broken relationship with fans. He's built houses for the poor, helped refurbish run down inner city homes, given bikes and school supplies to inner city kids, helped finance the new school, even bought cupcakes for his neighbors when the press made a nuisance of themselves in the neighborhood. It's no surprise that when he puts out a political thought it will be anti-Trump. That's how you gain friends in the media. Who knows what he really thinks, if anything.
Zuckerberg put up $100 million along with Newark Mayor,(wait for it...) Cory Booker's $100 million of tax payer money, to make the Newark Schools best in the nation
Of course, in Reality, Zuckerberg didn't really put up ANY money; he just made a tax deductible contribution of $100 million, which reduced his tax burden by $100 million.
Let me know when some do-gooder makes a charitable contribution and DOESN'T deduct it on their income tax.
Non rich pay this game too. One of my co-workers bragged that he tithed (gave %10 percent of his income to His Church). When I asked him if that was net or gross, he was confused. So, I asked him if he deducted it from his income tax: OF COURSE, he said.
When I told him that meant that he wasn't Really giving %10, he was Very Offended; and considered me to be an Agent of Satan.
sorry, of course it cost him SOMETHING, it reduced his Income by $100 million, so it cost him ~60 million.
“ He's a professional basketball player, what does he know about such things?”
Surprised no one (Chuck?) tried to make the argument that Trump is just like LeBron, leveraging celebrity into politics, with no particular knowledge. The difference of course is that Trump had a career in business, and waited till he was almost 70 to enter politics. LeBron needs to shut up and grow up.
Does LeBron "read between the lines?"
Does he read at all?
Illiterate sports figures are everywhere. Magic Johnson seems to be the only one I know of who has actually done something and that was after he retired.
Since Lebron announced the move to LA; it has seemed to me the decision was about getting better press and a bigger microphone. I don't blame him, but its funny how much of the press hated James Lebron selling out, until he sold out to the LA Lakers, whom the press adores. It's like all they wanted was to cajole him into selling his services to them. Now they can pimp each other out.
For sure, see Hoop Dreams. I’m not a sports fan, and that documentary had wonderful insights.
The “Shut up and ..” formulation always reminds me of Zappa’s instrumental “Shut up and play yer guitar “ album — which I doubt Ingram was alluding to.
More politically, the Dixie Chicks’ “Not ready to make nice” conjures receipt of a letter saying “shut up and sing or your life will be over “.
I doubt that Ingram had that one in mind either.
It seems like a terrible insult to blacks who’ve spent their lives toiling in academia to discover that to really be taken seriously as a black person its far more important to be a standout athlete.
shut up--you drivel!
The more they talk the less I watch.l
Some good documentaries in the linked list--Endless Summer, Hoop Dreams, OJ. I think our hostess would enjoy all three.
The Dream Team documentary is also good, though perhaps more for fans.
One problem with LeBron spouting off, apart from the predictably boring leftishness, is that there's no discussion or response--just a celebrity spouting off, with his buddies and MSM flunkies celebrating.
Good on Trump not to turn the other cheek, though I think a more subtle approach could work with LeBron, who may be politically inclined but also keeps an eye on his market.
Sports is our safe substitute for real conflict. We can participate, even as adversaries, with no real animus or anger. We can act out the violence that our nature requires without ruining each other, becuase our nature also requires that we have each other as friends, family, and community. Politics can sometimes be like that, but often not and especially lately as it has become increasingly personal and serious.
Sports is all we have to safely be both human and competitive, which we can't avoid being. Letting sports get political is a big mistake, but it was started by the Left who always seem to have a need to ruin anything they touch. Nothing can be left as it is, conserved, maintained, treasured, enjoyed. It's always break it, change it, defile it, like some kind of OCD.
In other words, let's not forget why we even know who Lebron James is, and it's not for ideas, or documentaries, or explaining our culture. Maybe he can do that too, but that remains to be seen, and what tells us it's likely.
Since they're now talking like I did over a decade ago, I think blacks are, currently, as off-base on race as whites usually are. I also know black's current actions and behaviors are a reaction to that - what do you do when faced with an implacable enemy who outnumbers you? Probably lose your mind every once in a while.
It hurts to watch a lot of this stuff nowadays, especially because I feel alone in seeing it all, when it's obvious.
But then, there's the bright spots,...
To me, it’s quite simple. How many black people that were unemployed in January 2017 now have jobs now that Trump’s domestic policies have taken effect, and how many black people have jobs due to anything LeBron James has done?
"Shut up and dribble" is somehow more insulting than "shut up and sing" and the other "shut ups." It bring to mind saliva running down a person's mouth as well as a ball bouncing up and down. Almost any of the other choices (shoot, dunk, play) would have made Lebron look active, dribble makes him look passive. Besides, since Ingraham is a pundit, what can Lebron say back, "shut up and ... talk"?
If politics is all about who can insult their opponent best (and it is), then Laura Ingraham got the better on this one.
Unforgivable Blackness: The Rise and Fall of Jack Johnson
Blogger The Crack Emcee said...
‘About two weeks ago Laura Ingraham had a segment on The Angle calling the Democrats "a cult".’
Taking a page from the Democrats book, a good, modern definition of “cult” is: “a group that has beliefs regarded by many people as extreme or dangerous. : a situation in which people admire and care about something or someone very much or too much.” One could add: “characteristics they project on to others to distract from their own irrationality.”
Sounds like Democrats to me.
“The United States has become a place where entertainers and professional athletes are mistaken for people of importance.” - Robert A. Heinlein
CE: "It hurts to watch a lot of this stuff nowadays, especially because I feel alone in seeing it all, when it's obvious."
You and LLR Chuck are really a match made in heaven.
Perhaps a hundred years from now, long after you're gone, your genius and insight will finally be appreciated.
One simply has to hope that humanity has the capability to come around to recognizing your irreplaceable and unique contribution and not, once again, disappoint you.
LLR Chuck: “That’s your problem. You went full Scott Adams. Never go ‘full Scott Adams ‘.”
Unless, of course, you want to be ahead of the curve and recognize opportunities and successfully predict outcomes.
Nope, it's much better to be none of that and stay in the LLR Chuck/Dick Durbin "camp".
LOL
Broke -ESPN Films 30 for 30:
https://newonnetflix.com/usa/movie/344284/30-for-30%3A-broke
Should be pre-contract signing required viewing for every professional athlete.
The NFL should point this out to their players as an example. The NBA has a rule that during the National Anthem players are to stand and behave in a respectful fashion. But off the court on their own time they have every right to express themselves, as Mr. LeBron is doing here. Why shouldn't the NFL do the same?
How much do people talk about Michael Jordan today? That will be Lebron James in 15 years.
LeBron jumped on the "Hands Up, Don't Shoot" bandwagon. Now that anyone who cares about facts (i.e. largely those NOT in the party of science) know that to be BS, you'd think there MIGHT be a walk back. At least something along the lines of, "Cops are still too eager to shoot a black man, even if the facts in this particular case were counter that argument".
Never seen it, not from a single one of the high profile protestors. Never seen the question asked of them either.
The doc also symbolizes the reason Mr James chose the Lakers: To Live and Produce in LA.
Glad to see that Crack is back.
I guess he made enough money selling new age crystals on his old website.
Crack is all about cults.
langford peel said...
"Glad to see that Crack is back.
I guess he made enough money selling new age crystals on his old website.
Crack is all about cults."
You guys crack me up. Yeah, I spent a lot of time in my mountain retreat, communing with nature while studying the works of L. Ron Hubbard.
Drago said...
"Perhaps a hundred years from now, long after you're gone, your genius and insight will finally be appreciated."
That would be nice, though a bit of recognition for this song, now, would be better.
You're better off watching sports than sports documentaries.
I'm not a fan of the documentary form in general. Nine out of 10 are made by neophytes to the subject matter, or are made for them, which means they're 101-level classes if you have a pre-existing interest in the subject matter. The things they find amazing and revelatory will be insights you absorbed long ago. "Hoop Dreams", for instance, tells us that young athletes sometimes put too much emphasis and pin too many of their aspirations on sports. Wow, really?
LangfordPeel, just another name for Trooper York.
Samey samey.
How much do people talk about Michael Jordan today? That will be Lebron James in 15 years.
Nope. Jordan was smart enough to realize Republicans buy sneakers, too.
Crack is whack.
I have this on good authority.
gilbar: Let me know when some do-gooder makes a charitable contribution and DOESN'T deduct it on their income tax.
This is just as bad as the "income inequality" thing from the other day.
Two people with identical incomes.
Person B donates $7500 to charity and doesn't deduct it.
Person A donates $10000 to charity, deducts it, and reduces his taxes by $2500.
Only difference is whether the charity or the government gets that $2500. But you'd applaud the former and denigrate the latter.
It's stupid.
Blogger MountainMan said...
“The United States has become a place where entertainers and professional athletes are mistaken for people of importance.” - Robert A. Heinlein
This perfectly predicts the Trump phenomenon: both the sickophantic regurgitation of his slutty behavior and the pearl clutching shock and awe of same.
He's an outstanding basketball player. Bball aside, he's a pathetic attention whore. His career is a lot closer to its end than its beginning. It will be a lot less than fifteen years before most people don't give a damn what he thinks, says or does.
FIFY:He's an outstanding reality star. TV aside, he's a pathetic attention whore. His career is a lot closer to its end than its beginning. It will be a lot less than fifteen years before most people don't give a damn what he thinks, says or does.
FTFIFY:He's an outstanding ex-Marine. Blogspot aside, he's a pathetic attention whore. His career is a lot closer to its end than its beginning. It will be a lot less than fifteen years before most people don't give a damn what he thinks, says or does.
Once again, Bad Lieutenant, I am honored by your continued patronage.
Lebron seems to be a nice guy and fairly intelligent. IRC, he went directly to the NBA from HS, and doesn't seem highly educated.
He doesn't have the brains of Michael Jordan, and I don't see him owning a team or becoming a GM like Magic.
Trump counter-attacked and called him dumber than Don Lemmon - but that's the truth.
You'll notice that all Lemmon could do was cry "racist". Hey, pointing out how stupid Don Lemmon is - well that shouldn't be done. Racist.
Howard = Bad Lt.
Gary Rosen = Cederford
They always come in pairs.
Inga said...
LangfordPeel, just another name for Trooper York.
Samey samey.
8/7/18, 1:58 PM
No, I think Jon Ericson is TY. JE and lp seem to be bitter enemies, though that could be the disorder.
Blogger rcocean said...
Howard = Bad Lt.
No.
Gary Rosen = Cederford
Doubt it.
They always come in pairs.
Generally better than having to come by yourself. Ceteris paribus and all that.
8/7/18, 7:26 PM
Blogger Howard said...
Once again, Bad Lieutenant, I am honored by your continued patronage.
8/7/18, 7:19 PM
As, I'm sure, President Trump is by yours.
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