We were just talking about the people we've lived with for so long, who are part of the world that we know as our world and what it would mean for them to be gone. Who are the people like that for you? I don't mean your family and friends, your own intimate loved ones, but the people you don't know but who belong in life with you, wherever they are and without whom the world would become a little more strange and less like a place where you belong, the people who make you think of the old song lyric, "how wonderful life is while you're in the world."
When they are not in the world anymore...
१६ ऑगस्ट, २०१८
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Who are the people like that for you?
You
Along with, to a lesser extent, various other commenters here.
Sorry, but remembering Aretha Franklin does not make me want to think about other people.
She was fantastic!
"the people we've lived with for so long"
I don't "live with" people I don't know. Many people I have "lived with" in the virtual sense meant here have passed without any impact on my life.
Most of the people I don't know that I have "lived with" in any meaningful sense have been dead since before I was born. Nothing has changed, except my appreciation for their accomplishments that have enriched my life.
"the people you don't know but who belong in life with you, wherever they are and without whom the world would become a little more strange and less like a place where you belong"
Of course, it depends partly on what the meaning of "don't know" is. I "know" a fair number of people who post on this blog, and I would miss them if they were to pass or this blog would stop--and of course, our hostess, whom I know better than many people I know.
Stan Lee. I told my wife the other day that I'll be really sad when Stan Lee passes away. He pretty much defined my childhood (and my son's childhood it seems) with his creations. I know we can't keep people around forever. And then my wife said "who the hell is Stanley?"
Queen Elizabeth. In Canada, we tend to ignore the monarchy 99% of the time, but there will be more little changes and strangeness than people expect when she dies.
Eisenhower?
I'm with Ignorance.
There are so many haters of black people trolling on this blog it is scary. With Schlump in office, hate is respectable again. How can we as a country go from a black president to a racist president in one erection cycle?
Aretha Franklin is lucky she wasn't lynched. There is no room for blacks in Schlump's America. Make the KKK great again!
A couple History (my major) professors in college and two professors in law school that I always intended to personally thank for what they meant to me. When I got serious about writing and/or visiting 20 years ago, they were all gone. (Smoking was a constant in that generation, picked it up I suppose in WWII or Korea and were chain smokers wen I knew them.)
Thanks, Ignorance.
The other day I was thinking about Bob Dylan and how it affects me that he is still alive and how I'd feel personally diminished if, some day, I heard the news that he had died. I was involved in a long conversation about this 2 days ago. We also talked about how some people who had already died had this meaning for us. John Lennon. Bobby Kennedy. I said I felt that way about Tom Wolfe. I mentioned Hunter S. Thompson, Frank Zappa, and Robin Williams.
There are some people, mostly artists, whose presence makes the world the world. We know that everyone who comes into the world must also leave and that we ourselves must go too, but we share the world with a cohort of human beings. It seems stable, that we're in life with those people, even though people are constantly departing. We have a feeling that we belong with a certain group and care about keeping company with them. They make our time feel like our time, a particular era that is our era.
When one of them goes, there's the feeling that my time is coming to an end, the window is is closing on the world that is mine. There are all kinds of new people flowing in and making art, keeping the world alive and populated, and it's possible to experience them, but I don't think I can get this strong sense of the meaning of the world from any of these new people.
There are so many haters of black people trolling on this blog it is scary. With Schlump in office, hate is respectable again. How can we as a country go from a black president to a racist president in one erection cycle?
Aretha Franklin is lucky she wasn't lynched. There is no room for blacks in Schlump's America. Make the KKK great again!
Folks, make sure you and the people you care about take your meds on time and as prescribed. It's important.
Paul Simon. He can’t be old in my head, but he’s older than I am, so...
I loved it when she competed with Mariah Carey and Celine(?) on Divas--and won.
Recording artists exist in their recordings. She hasn't really left us. I listen to Ella Fitzgerald and Louis Armstrong more now than when they were alive. I was barely aware of Maria Callas's existence when she was alive, but she's now more alive to me than Kate Perry.....................I would miss Althouse if she departed. She's part of the rhythm of my life and is probably the only reason why I'm aware of most public events. She exists in the moment and to some extent helps define the moment. The actuarial tables are such that there are slim chances of that, however. I'll be gone before most of the people I care about. I guess that's the plus side of old age. Some advantage..........I've got an excellent chance of outliving Jane Fonda. I won't be grief stricken when she passes, but she's definitely a landmark for my era. The worst part of her passing will be listening to all those bullshit eulogies.
Young people from whom you "can get this strong sense of the meaning of the world from any of these new people":
Start with Angel Olsen. I gave up on music entirely for a decade until she single-handedly brought me back in 2014.
William Shatner.
Robin Williams death had an effect on me , much more so than other celeb deaths typically do.
And then my wife said "who the hell is Stanley?"
She was right. Stanley Lieber.
Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko are gone. Stan (The Man) is the only one left from my childhood comic legends trio.
I don't feel bereft when someone like Aretha dies because she lived a long time and there is a significant body of work she's left behind, that I can listen to and remember or discover something kind of new or different that maybe I hadn't really appreciated before. Probably pretty much all she had to offer, it's here, more or less.
I feel a sense of loss when someone goes that I feel wasn't here long enough, Gilda Radner or John Candy, for example, that there would have been so much more if they'd lived longer, contributions they never got to make and I never got to enjoy and appreciate.
Her voice always gave me the chills. One of a kind. Nobody like her. RIP and thanks, Aretha.
I wonder how often performers look back at their old work for the nostalgia, not the ego. I'd cringe too much.
Last night we watched a show on Netflix that Charles put together for the Queen's 90th. It was clips of their family's home movies going back to the 20's with commenting by various members, who apparently hadn't ever seen many of them. Then why did they take them?
No, Aretha Franklin did not live a long time. She's only a couple years older than me.
Queen Elizabeth. In Canada, we tend to ignore the monarchy 99% of the time, but there will be more little changes and strangeness than people expect when she dies.
Man I hope they skip crazy Charlie and make his son William king when Elizabeth dies.
Probably Jack Nicklaus or Tom Watson. I grew up watching them on TV and I still think they're great.
But Jack is 78 - but maybe he has another 15 years.
Otherwise, no. With Show Biz folks, they never die, their performances live on in Film, recorded music, etc.
Being upset at Celebrity deaths was something I grew out of. I was really shocked that Belushi died. I was less sad when John Candy and Chris Farely did. Now, I don't really care that much.
Folks, make sure you and the people you care about take your meds on time and as prescribed. It's important.
Every time I do that my imaginary friends all die.
Old enough to go with Stanislav Petrov, who died last year a little older than Aretha.
I'll second Jack Nicklaus. Arnie I miss that way. I'll miss Trevino too since he's why I play golf...
Gary Larson. He's kind of already dead to me that way.
If I die before Keith Richards
Ditto. She was only 76. Princess Diana's untimely death was over=reported, with much wailing, but it was so shockingly unexpected that it affected me as well. The world couldn't rid itself of Hitler, until he did himself in as the Russians were approaching his bunker in Berlin. Evil is difficult to stamp out as the durability of the current administration in Washington proves.
I agree with the above folks on John Belushi. Aretha Franklin had an incredible career and 76 years. Sad, but, not much more or less than what we all get.
When Belushi died, I was a mere teenager, and I was shocked and saddened. He was my favorite. So funny and talented. But I didn't understand (at the time), how the NYC/Hollywood drug scene had taken over his life.
I just remembered Phil Hartman. Man that was another big loss.
Radner, Hartman, Farley, Belushi, Candy.
Only the funny ones. Garrett Morris and Loraine Newman are still alive.
Pauly Shore is indistructable. Jerry Lewis will live to be a 100.
Stevie Ray Vaughn. For the loss of all the future music he could have played.
Now that I'm free associating. I'll miss Kelsey Grammer when he kicks the bucket.
Jerry Lewis will live to be a 100
91 actually.
no man is an island, basically. Yep.
In June 1972, I traveled to the Soviet Union to attend a Russian-language program at the University of Leningrad. I took some record albums to give away as gifts. One of the albums was Aretha Franklin's album Amazing Grace, which had been released on June 1. My father had bought this album immediately, and our family was listening to it all the time.
From the Wikipedia article about the album:
[quote]
Released on June 1, 1972, by Atlantic Records, it ultimately sold over two million copies in the United States alone, earning a double platinum certification. As of 2017, it stands as the biggest selling disc of Franklin's entire fifty-plus year recording career as well as the highest selling live gospel music album of all time. It won Franklin the 1973 Grammy Award for Best Soul Gospel Performance.
The double album was recorded at the New Temple Missionary Baptist Church in Los Angeles during January 1972.
[end quote]
While I was in Leningrad, I became acquainted with a young man, perhaps about 20 years old, who was a fervent Christian. He took me to his church to hear him sing in the church choir as it practiced. He took me into his home to eat dinner.
Of course, I gave him the Aretha Franklin album. He seemed to disapprove at first, because he assumed it was a rock-and-roll album. I explained to him that the album was a concert of Christian songs.
Anyway, he took the album home and listened to it. Later he told me that he did disapprove of the music at first, because it did not sound like any Christian music he ever had heard.
However, he listened to the entire album and then listened to it several more times. As I recall, the album included all the songs' lyrics printed. Eventually, of course, the album blew his mind. He became ecstatic about it.
He knew some English, and he told me in English that "these are songs of redemption!"
I'm sure that he tape-recorded the entire album and shared the tapes with his fellow choir members.
John Lennon. Bobby Kennedy. I said I felt that way about Tom Wolfe. I mentioned Hunter S. Thompson, Frank Zappa, and Robin Williams.
Elvis, I think for many people.
Jerry Lewis was looked super unhealthy for years. He had some disease or was taking some medicine that caused him to look bloated.
I'm surprised he made it till 91, but a lot comics live forever.
Aren't Rickles and Newhart Sill alive? I know George Burns live to be a 100.
On the other side of the ledger, I'm not shedding a tear for Letterman or Cavett.
This doesn't answer your question but I do want to point out that Aretha looks overwhelming wonderful on that video starting at 1:10 up through about 1:45.
Of all of her work, the one that always delights me the most is this one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vet6AHmq3_s
You gotta think. You gotta think about the consequences of your actions.
Aretha Franklin was a little before my time. I remember seeing her in "The Blues Brothers" and thinking, wow, this old black lady sure can sing.
Aren't Rickles and Newhart Sill alive?
Crapgame just died last year.
I had one of her Youtube video "Rock a bye my baby with a Dixie Melody" - from some TV show in the 50s. She did an amazing job.
Gladys Knight is still walking around.
"But Jack is 78 - but maybe he has another 15 years."
Fuggetaboutit. Nicklaus was or is a heavy smoker.
Angela Lansbury and Julie Andrews
Part of the world I knew changed when Robert J. Lurtsema went off the air, 20 years ago almost. I was only in my 30s, but I grew up with my father listening to Opera on public radio and for many years most of what was best about public radio was the music programming -- classical and jazz. WBUR had great programs in both camps. Somehow Lurtsema's death coincided with the death of public radio as a source of music.
I was out mowing the lawn when my mother came out to tell me Elvis was dead. I would have been 16 and to me it was an "Oh, that's too bad" kind of thing and I went on mowing. It was only years later that it occurred to me that my mother had never came out in the yard to tell me anything else while I was mowing.
Frank Sinatra, Steve McQueen, John Wayne, Rock Hudson, Groucho Marx, Jack Benny, Robert Mitchum, Dean Martin, Sammy Davis Jr, Burt Lancaster, Paul Newman, Jimmy Stewart, George Reeves, Elvis, JFK, RFK, Richard Nixon, Alfred Hitchcock, Orson Welles, Antonio Carlos Jobim, Ella, Mel Torme, George Shearing and least we forget, your name here.
Sinatra was always around and often said, "May the last voice you here be mine" besides saying, "The Golden Years are a pain in the ass!"
His voice may still be the last one we here.
I know when Shirley Maclaine dies she'll be reincarnated, so no worries there.
When Doris Day dies it's the End Times for us all.
We'll all have a final Que Sera Sera moment.
Bob Dylan? I thought he was dead. SHADOWS in the NIGHT made him dead to me.
I remember when Michael Jackson died. But is was different because he had already fallen so far. I still believe he had the most dramatic fall of anyone ever. He went from maybe the most popular man on the planet to someone most people wouldn't let in their home.
tcrosse said...
Gladys Knight is still walking around.
What about the Pimps?
Roger Ebert became the Chicago Sun-Times movie critic in 1967. I started reading him in 1969, and continued to read him up until his death. It was sort of a half century long discussion about movies, except he never heard my end of the conversation. I didn't necessarily agree with him (or he with me), but I valued his opinion highly, even when we disagreed.
I'm so far past all that. 16 of my 20 BFFs are dead. All of my foster parents, but one. I can't count how many dead bodies I've seen. Most of my great black leaders are dead. I saw them wheel Marvin Gaye's body out, gawking on my way home from school, and heard my neighbors chant with glee when Biggie Smalls got killed in Rap's East Coast/West Coast war of the '90s. I did drop a tear when Michael Jackson died, but I was also surprised I still had a tear in me. It was so bizarre, that actually became the bigger focus of my concern.
Understanding white America's continued hatred for black's efforts for justice, but love for intellectually dubious delusions (like NewAge) that make questioning their rationality even more obvious than our racial history does, I've lost most of my attachment and admiration for my fellow man, knowing, for sure now, that "men are not angels" as Madison said. It's no mistake, or surprise, many Nazi documentaries I watch come with a warning the Germans were just like most people. My experience, today, says they were.
There's nothing about that, or no one involved in it, I can't do without.
it definitely has no place for me and doesn't care.
Tom Wolfe and Arnold Palmer, for sure.
Meryl Streep of the current living.
And Ann, you should organize a big Althouse party in Madison this Fall. Get Meade on it right away. We take over a bar. You talk for a bit and then we drink and sing!
Before Fr. Schlegel died of pancreatic cancer (the same disease that killed Aretha) he had a victory lap. He said Mass with the Pope and had big parties in Omaha and San Francisco. Glad he did it.
Sic Transit Gloria Mundi.
For me I think the first really truly shocking/impactful death was Gordon B. Hinckley. Most don't know him, he wasn't a celebrity. He was the leader of the LDS church for really all of my life, it seemed like. He died at I think 98, but I think everyone expected him to make at least 100--he was working up until like 3 days before he died. I think he got a minor sickness, laid down to rest, and his body just said, "rest? Let's really rest!" He did more after age 90 than most men do their entire lives. He died on a Sunday night in January 2008, and the next day half of the students in Utah wore their Sunday best to school to honor him--one of the first organic social media organized events I can think of.
Kind of like when John Paul II died; the only Pope many people had ever known. Entertainers are nice and all, but some people's deaths can be really impactful.
A professional singer should have the willpower to stop smoking to preserve the windpower.
Eating is another matter, up to a point.
Trumpit - In your world - you're the Nazi, and Trump is a Jew.
Forgot to add that when Charles Krauthammer died it was a big deal to me.
The day Rush Limbaugh dies will be a watershed moment. He’s the most influential conservative in the history of America. Bigger than Reagan.
What about the Pimps?
With practice and a little luck, they'll die in unison.
I wonder if James Dean would have gone the way of Montgomery Clift and Marlon Brando if he had lived out his days. Early death is career enhancing for certain celebrities......Jim Morrison, Elvis, Michael Jackson, Freddy Mercury, Prince: death probably helped their record sales. They left behind a sufficient body of work to be remembered by. Amy Whitehouse, however, left behind too few songs. She had a grand talent and now it's gone and unfulfilled.
"May the last voice you HEAR be mine!" Frank Sinatra.
Marlon Brando said that when Sinatra dies he was going to yell at God for making him bald.
I wonder how that went down?
Must've been a thrill for Clapton to play on Aretha's "Good To Me As I Am To You" in '67. She was at full power. Whatta voice.
https://www.guitarworld.com/artists/young-eric-clapton-delivers-goods-aretha-franklin-1967
Let us not forget Betty White.
Neil Diamond
Miscellaneous
Done Too Soon
Written by Neil Diamond
Jesus Christ, Fanny Brice,
Wolfie Mozart and Humphrey Bogart and
Genghis Khan and
On to H. G. Wells.
Ho Chi Minh, Gunga Din
Henry Luce and John Wilkes Booth
And Alexanders
King and Graham Bell.
Ramar Krishna, Mama Whistler,
Patrice Lumumba and Russ Colombo,
Karl and Chico Marx,
Albert Camus.
E. A. Poe, Henri Rousseau,
Sholom Aleichem and Caryl Chessman,
Alan Freed and
Buster Keaton too
And each one there
Has one thing shared:
They have sweated beneath the same sun,
Looked up in wonder at the same moon,
And wept when it was all done
For bein?done too soon,
For bein?done too soon.
For bein?done.
I remember Blockbuster. For a good chunk of my life it never existed, and then it became an institution. It was part part of the weekend rituals along with the Sunday Times. Now Blockbuster is gone and, in NYC, you never see couples buying the Sunday Times on their way home. What gives one pause is when the things you think are institutions become ephemera. I've outlived my world.
I've been thinking a lot about Anthony Bourdain. He was about to turn 62, as I have just done. I agree with commenters who say it makes a difference when a person was young enough that they could have contributed much more. Bourdain seemed like a true life-long learner, always with interesting things to say. I read his Typhoid Mary book, and glanced through one of his "Kitchen" books. His TV shows were really interesting--perhaps models of how to understand people who in some ways are the same, yet in other ways different. What more might he have offered us?
We were talking,
about the space between us all
And the people, who hide themselves behind a wall of illusion
Never glimpse the truth, then it's far too late when they pass away
We were talking,
about the love we all could share
When we find it, to try our best to hold it there, with our love
With our love we could save the world, if they only knew
Try to realize it's all within yourself, no-one else can make you change
And to see you're really only very small
And life flows on within you and without you
I miss writers who die more than singers. When singers get old, they lose their voices so it isn't like you are missing out on any new work from them. But most writers are able to keep their minds. I miss Roberson Davies the most. And although he isn't dead yet, only in storage, I miss Pope Benedict.
I miss Tom Wolfe (and less immediately, Thomas Wolfe, too).
I don't recall even noticing when Elvis died. All I heard about was Elvis sightings.
I did hear a nice bumper song on Imus in the 90s and inquired on alt.fan.don-imus who it was and Rob Bartlett replied incredulously that it was Aretha Franklin.
Yehbut Bartlett doesn't know the first thing about lute music.
Signed in for once to say the same!: (Here 3x a day for many moons now.)
Ignorance is Bliss said...
Who are the people like that for you?
You
Many people were traumatized by the deaths of JFK (46) and RFK (42), because they were so young, and the deaths were so violent.
I'm not sure they count as celebrities, but they certainly were close to such status.
Can you imagine if Jackie had also been shot in the caravan in Dealey Plaza? The collective trauma might have been so bad as to push us to nuclear war with the Commies.
For me the celebrity death that would hit hardest is Kate Bush. She's not much older than I am, though, so odds are I won't have to see it. All the ones I can think of are musicians. The first really big one for me was Poly Styrene.
I was a little girl when Marilyn Monroe died but I remember that day vividly. I was very sad about it even though I had never seen any of movies. Shirley Temple, Annette Funicello were childhood icons and the shocking deaths of John Lennon and Michael Jackson all affected me. I will be in deep mourning when Paul McCartney and Queen Elizabeth die.
Princess Diana's untimely death was over=reported, with much wailing, but it was so shockingly unexpected that it affected me as well.
I was amused. Live by the paparazzi die by the paparazzi.
However the NYT did an informative piece for people who were affected
Diana's Death Resonates with Women in Therapy
I was devastated when Ernie Kovacs died.
Tom Wolfe, David Bowie, and Tom Petty. I also remember feeling sad when DiMaggio died.
And now, Aretha Franklin.
Y'all are too stuck in the present.
Better to live with people who are good and dead.
The best of them are better anyway.
I'm not affected much by celebrity passings. Thankfully, they usually pass after we have already gotten their best work.
I was with friends in a bar back in 1980, and pretty inebriated when we were told that Peter Sellers had died. I was told that I got really upset and started crying. I have no idea what that was about. I saw maybe one of the Pink Panther movies. Maybe I just needed a good cry.
I was probably most intellectually affected by the death of Frank Zappa. I was only a casual fan, but it was the first celebrity death that brought home the reality of how helpless we are despite our success. He died of prostate cancer after a long fight. I was surprised that a man with plenty of financial resources could die of something affecting such a small and unnecessary organ. He was helpless, even with our medicine and his wealth. It made me really fear cancer for the first time in my life. Many years later but still younger than Zappa, I got the cancer myself. Without his level wealth, but with the far superior health insurance of the pre-Obamacare system, I beat it - twice.
Aretha was simply the best, and everybody has always known it from the beginning.
"Hey Nineteen
That's 'Retha Franklin
She don't remember the Queen of Soul
It's hard times befallen
The sole survivors
She thinks I'm crazy
But I'm just growing old"
"Hey Nineteen" ~ Steely Dan
Broken Halos
Seen my share of broken halos
Folded wings that used to fly
They've all gone wherever they go
Broken halos that used to shine
Chris Stapleton
David Begley said...
"Forgot to add that when Charles Krauthammer died it was a big deal to me."
Ahh, there. This racist got moved by his death, too.
October 6, 2018 would be the perfect day for the Althouse Festival. The Huskers are coming to Madison. I'd love to see a game at Camp Randall.
I'd assume that those affected by Aretha Franklin dying are affected by the music, not the celebrity. I don't know that she even had any real celebrity status, other than her work itself produced.
When Elvis died, I was in bed listening to the radio and my husband and my mother in law were talking in the next room. i got up, got dressed, and went out into the living room and said, Elvis died! They both looked at me as if I was stupid to think they gave a shit and should not have interrupted them with my little pop culture bullshit, and I made a mental note to remember to try to be a more deeply serious person so I could live down the embarrassment of acting as if intelligent people think Elvis matters. What possible topic could they have been discussing? I can’t remember, but what if I’d packed my bag that night and slipped away because it had become crushingly obvious that I did not belong there?
When a mathematician dies, he leaves behind truths that outlast the universe.
Elvis mattered if you were into the music, or followed celebrities.
This is somewhat obscure, but there was a rookie basketball player, drafted by the Celtics in '85 or '86, named Len Bias from Univ of Maryland. He tragically died of a cocaine OD or heart attack, which at the time totally bummed me out. I really liked the dude, and he was just a few years older than me.
Back to the post:
"the people you don't know but who belong in life with you, wherever they are and without whom the world would become a little more strange and less like a place where you belong"
But we are mostly talking about people whom we knew through their work, particularly audio and video recordings. They were "in life" with us as a virtual, symbolic presence. Their work made us feel like the world is a place where we belong.
So did awareness of their being alive make a difference?
If other people's virtual presence hasn't changed, what difference does or should their physical death make to our sense of belonging in the world?
Of course, I am speaking generically--I have not felt any sadness or regret about the passing of anyone I "don't know." Since I didn't need their passing to remind me of my own mortality, their deaths didn't make life seem stranger.
Plus Glenn Gould, Sviatoslav Richter, and all the rest, they are right here with me. As a conservative who marvels at the great Western tradition of creative thought, what is left of it, I think death is overrated.
No one gets called the “queen of” something or the “king” anymore. Or the “godfather.” There’s just not that kind of grandeur anymore.
The other day I was thinking about Bob Dylan and how it affects me that he is still alive and how I'd feel personally diminished if, some day, I heard the news that he had died.
There's no cultural figure, dead or alive, that has had a bigger impact on me than Dylan. But I don't think I'd feel any where near the sense of loss when he dies that I felt when Lennon or Hendrix died. With those two there was the "what if". With Dylan we got the if and it was pretty good.
Also with Dylan there will most likely be a treasure trove of recordings that will be released after he passes away. And it would take more time than I have to listen to all the bootlegs of his concerts.
Elvis was lower class if you were into the music, to somebody actually into higher class music. Not much use was made of music's possibilities.
I had a friend as a kid who could do a great Elvis impersonation but I couldn't tell if he was into it or just mocking it. It was funny to listen to.
Pete Townshend, Robert Crumb.
"tcrosse said...
Let us not forget Betty White."
Funny.
When JFK was shot, I was a Freshman at Madison. We were eating lunch in the cafeteria and the radio was patched in to the PA system. When it was announced that JFK was dead, the network probably intended to play a bit of the Funeral March from Beethoven's Eroica Symphony. Somebody messed up and instead they played the opening of the Pastorale, which has quite a different vibe. Actually, it was quite poignant.
it had become crushingly obvious that I did not belong there
Good thing you dressed first.
Ann:
Your ex-husband was probably talking to his mother about something he read in the NYT.
When JFK died they closed work because all the mailgirls were crying. I went flying.
named Len Bias
I thought about him yesterday for some reason but couldn't remember his name. It was a big deal in the DC area.
John Paul II was my hero.
But I'm not so sure anymore.
I was stuck in Memphis trying to get a ride hitchhiking the day Elvis died. And I was near Ingmar Bergman's home in Fårø when he died. Neither were central figures to me, but it did move me knowing that I was in close proximity when they passed away.
For me it was Roy Orbison and Joe Cocker. I'm gettin all the Delbert McClinton `I can stuff into my ears.
My favorite Aretha Franklin track.
rhhardin said...
When a mathematician dies, he leaves behind truths that outlast the universe.
When a porn star dies, she leaves behind exactly the same set of truths. Those truths exist independent of the mathematician, and note neither his coming nor his going.
When Kennedy assassinated, dad says, "One down"
My grandfather said, "He got what he deserved." GF didn't like interfering Yankees, but he was dead within a year, too--of pancreatic cancer.
That's the second memory I can put a date to, at 3 yr 4 days. First was my cousin's birth on Halloween.
My Bad, Delbert's not gone, but seeing Ray Charles live was so magical I'm not lettin Delbert give me the slip!
I miss Christopher Hitchens terribly.
Had an acquaintance who was diagnosed with advanced pancreatic cancer who treated with an Ojibwa natural healer. He lived several years past his projected checkout date. He wasn't real heatlhy by any measure, but he was alive and coherent.
It upset me when my great-grandfather died. And when either of my grandfathers died. And when my great-grandmother died. And when my grandmother died.
It bothered me when my dad died.
Losing a child was worse than all of those.
Celebrities I have not known personally? Not so much.
And to answer Ann's question, I would echo an earlier commenter and say that I terribly miss not hearing Roger Ebert's thoughts on films. And I would add Christopher Hitchens. There was so much I disagreed with Hitchens on, but as a pure writer, there was no modern commentator I looked forward to reading more.
p.s. ALP beat me to the punch
The celebrity deaths that had the most impact on the marginal were John Lennon and Princess Di. Those deaths really pushed some people over the border...,, JFK Jr's death was more haunting than shocking.. He had just about everything working in his favor, and then he died. Life is unfair, but death is super, extra unfair.
oh Birkle,
I am so deeply sorry for your loss. No parent should have to live through that.
Delete your comment, wwww.
Liar.
I wonder if Ted Kennedy would be remember more kindly if he had died in that accident.
William,
Write that alt-history. I think that could be a best seller if you market it correctly.
Tony Snow.
I met him a long time go and he was a great guy. I loved everything he produced. His death hit doubly hard because I thought he was out of the woods, cancer-wise.
Amexpat said...
I was stuck in Memphis trying to get a ride hitchhiking the day Elvis died.
There's a song in there someplace....
Elvis was in Kentucky when it rained on him.
Who are the people like that for you?
Vin Scully
I can remember when John Lennon was shot. And being young and callous, I thought so what? He's just an old guy who hasn't written a good song in 10 years.
I'm always surprised at the chasm between Elvis fans and others. I remember visiting "Graceland" in the late 1980s and people were actually crying during the tour!
Later on, I learned some liberal elitists just hated Elvis with a passion. Marlon Brando called him a Drug-user who "stole the black man's music". I guess just being a Southerner was enough to earn their hatred.
And there was some guy called Goldman who wrote a scurrilous Biography of Elvis and Lennon. Nobody remembers him, but they still listen to Elvis.
I'll be sad when Dick Van Dyke dies.
Bob Newhart.
It seems with the advances in medical care all our rich celebrities live long lives.
No more Fitzgerald's or Tom Wolfe's dying at 40 from a heart attack.
Mailer/Vidal/Bellow/Updike - they all seemed to live forever.
Of course, rarely do artists, even authors, produce great work after they're 60. They continue to cash the Royalty checks but don't add much to their body of work. Even painters don't do much great work after 60.
And of course, the ever-popular Ruth Bader Ginsburg.
I am Canadian and when Queen Elizabeth dies, that going to discombobulate many of us. I am 48 yrs and she only leader of Canada that I've experienced. And it's weird too because Queens children, grandchildren, and now great grandchild make appearances in canada every couple of years to make it seem like we one big happy family. Princess Charlotte made her first appearance here and now lots of females are in love with her, she cute as a button, even tho they anti monarchy.
"No one gets called the “queen of” something or the “king” anymore. Or the “godfather.” There’s just not that kind of grandeur anymore."
They do, but now days they usually give themselves the title, and lose their real names altogether.
Both Michael Jackson and Prince were for me the analogues to what Franklin might be like for someone of Althouse's age (I am 52). For movie stars, the obvious one for me would be Tom Cruise; writers, it would be Stephen King.
Althouse, your short paragraph about telling your husband and mother in law about Elvis reads like the opening of a really good novel. I would read it!
Another vote here for Queen Elizabeth. I read somewhere that she's been Queen for the entire lifetimes of something like 90% of the people alive today.
King James
Queen Latifah
tcrosse said...
“Gladys Knight is still walking around.”
Not only walking but performing. Saw her as a surprise guest at a Ryman concert last fall. Sang “Midnight Train to Georgia.” Still has a fine voice. Brought the house down and showed everybody how it’s done. On her own tour soon and coming back next March.
Princess Charlotte made her first appearance here and now lots of females are in love with her...
Guys like me, too! Charlotte can run anything she wants as far as I'm concerned...
Bob Dylan and Hank Aaron. Can’t imagine them not being here.
I forgot about Queen Elizabeth. Not to mention Carol Burnett and Emmy Lou Harris.
Warren Zevon. He wrote some great songs, and when he died far too young, it saddened me to think that there wouldn't be any more.
John Prine and Brian Wilson. I don't think I'm alone in this. At the last concerts that I attended for each of them, I looked around and just about every person in sight had tears streaming down their faces.
Prine especially. I have so many teenage memories tied up in seeing him just as he was starting out. My first underage drink at the Earl of Old Town. He and Steve Goodman telling stories between songs at the local junior colleges. Friends who have passed on.
Princess Charlotte is crazy adorable. I'm looking forward to pictures of Meghan and Harry's babies.
other people:
Queen Elizabeth, Pope John Paul II
Andrew Bird the violinist.
@ Leslie Graves at 8/16/18, 12:07 PM
That's exactly the clip I went to first! I loved her in The Blues Brothers. Here's the link, embedded, for everyone's convenience:
Think - Aretha Franklin (Featuring The Blues Brothers)
Greg Allman, because his death means the ABB will never tour again.
Save all this generic talk for another day and instead go listen to fourteen-year-old Aretha Franklin singing “My Precious Lord” in her father’s New Bethel Baptist Church in Detroit in 1956.
Art: Alfred E. Neuman, Stanley Kubrick and Thomas Kinkade.
Sport: Wilt Chamberlain, Ray Nietzsche and Gordy Howe
Politics: Richard Nixon, Sam Yorty and Edmund G. Brown Sr.
richlb
Stan Lee. I told my wife the other day that I'll be really sad when Stan Lee passes away. He pretty much defined my childhood (and my son's childhood it seems) with his creations. I know we can't keep people around forever. And then my wife said "who the hell is Stanley?"
A childhood friend loves telling the story on her about when she took a telephone message from THE Stan Lee for her writer son. She also thought that Stanley wanted to leave a message for he son. Her telling of it reminds me of "Who's on First?"
"Stanley?"
"Stan_____Lee."
And so forth.
When Elvis died I was 17 and in my boyfriend's (now husband's) parents' backyard raking leaves. My boyfriend came out and told me Elvis had died. I asked him how old Elvis was and he said "44". I said, "That's pretty old, he lived a good long life." Years later I visited Graceland with my parents, sister, and 15 year old niece (who was probably wondering who the heck Elvis was and what she was doing there - how embarrassing). I saw Elvis' grave (by the swimming pool) and though what a waste that he had died so young. By that time, I had come to appreciate what a unique talent he was. No matter what he did, gospel, rock, country, 70s schtick - it was great and it was uniquely Elvis. Aretha was also a unique talent. God rest her soul.
Stanley Kubrick’s death was sad as there was no one like him, he'd carved out a space that was unique .Same with Hitchens. Life will be emptier without the presence and all that entailed of both Dylan and McCartney.
I'm grateful that the family of Aretha released the info of her impending death several days ago to prepare people. I had the suspicion that she would die on the weekend and I've been wanting to not play her music until then, but this was a good choice to start.
Also, this was an amazing performance, she floated in wearing a voluptuous mink coat, played the piano, thrilled the audience including an ecstatic Carole King, and a tearful President Obama. Aretha Franklin (You Make Me Feel Like) A Natural Woman - Kennedy Center Honors 2015
I'd add Joni Mitchell, Joan Baez, Paul McCartney to the list of our contemporary musical icons who have shifted our culture. There are others whose talent is timeless -- reminds us what music can be.
There was breaking news the other day that Mama Corleone had died.
Then you read down in the story that she actually died months ago and it is only being reported now.
Sad to see her go but I never really cared for her music.
OTOH.. . . ."Don't you blaspheme in here! Don't you blaspheme in here!"
It's a long shot, but I'm hoping that RBG and Jane Fonda die on the same day. That will cut down considerably on the lamentations we have to hear about Fonda. Also, it would prove that there is a just God if Fonda gets upstaged on the day of her death.
“ I can’t remember, but what if I’d packed my bag that night and slipped away because it had become crushingly obvious that I did not belong there?”
You probably would’ve saved yourself years of unhappiness.
Goodby Aretha Franklin, it was great hearing you live one night.
Well, i am sad. She was the best.
What a choir they must have in heaven.
I am sad, but we knew it was coming. When Prince died, it was total shock. I remember exactly where I was, in the American Express lounge at JFK.
You know who died too young? Hank Williams. For guy who died at 29, he wrote a lot of great music.
Not to mention Carol Burnett
Along those lines...
Mary Tyler Moore and Marlo Thomas.
But they seem to me moments (watershed for many to be sure) rather than people around and producing interactions so regularly you feel the loss.
The King of Cool, Steve McQueen.
Clint Eastwood
Clint Eastwood
Bob Dylan
David Baldacci
Aretha Franklin was good to the people of Detroit. Often, she gave concerts at Friends School of Detroit, to a student body of less than 200. Always gracious and kind.
Aretha was old school.
Remember she wouldn't cower to the anti-fur police? PETA writing with "leftist privilege"...
A Brief Exchange With Queen Aretha Franklin, Written by PETA | February 14, 2008
One of our most popular anti-fur slogans here at PETA is “Fur is worn by beautiful animals and ugly people”. And we’ve got some great ads to back it up. But the pictures that have been circulating of Aretha Franklin at the Grammy awards last week don’t even really need the tagline to drive that point home. She looks like a walrus in a cat costume. Except, like, nowhere near as cute as that sounds.
https://www.peta.org/blog/brief-exchange-queen-aretha-franklin/
Another example: Aretha would conduct the financial "settlement" of the concert herself insisting that the big-time promoter she knew from the start of her career -- who never does settlements himself anymore -- sit across the table from her to do it.
And he made sure to show up to do it, for her, out of R-E-S-P-E-C-T.
RIP
Thanks for posting this Ann. Aretha enters the divine today, destined to join Beethoven, Louis Armstrong and Bessie Smith in Dionysus' Big-Time All Star Band.
Naipaul's death hit me harder than I expected, and I resented a lot of his obits. Dylan's death will hit hard but I think he lives for a while yet.
When the likes of Neil Young and Joni Mitchell pass, we'll be older than we think.
I wasn't moved much when I was younger when stars I liked died. Aretha, this is a big one. She just came on the scene so strong and in my mid teens. She changed music and race relations almost as much as anyone. It's the being oldish now and living alongside them that brings the feeling of loss. Others will be Dylan and Carole King.
Maybe this was mentioned above already, but this is also the day Elvis died. I would really like to hear the gospel concert they're having in heaven tonight.
I cannot think of a single celebrity whose death (or future demise) will affect me even close to how I would feel (or felt) for family and friends. Maybe Dion DiMucci, who I have known since 1993 and is still actively touring and writing music. But he's 79 and when he finally goes, he will have lived a great and fulfilling life.
I have had much more emotion with my parents' passing and a addict girlfriend who OD'ed and almost died in my bathroom. necessitating CPR by me until the EMTs arrived. But she didn't die - just came close.
It would be sad when they (celebrities) die young or fairly young. But that's about it. I don't live through them, so ....
"I can’t remember, but what if I’d packed my bag that night and slipped away because it had become crushingly obvious that I did not belong there?"
Very sad story. I can't think of many things like the great letdown when someone close totally misses a deep moment one is having. It reminds me, "... neither cast ye your pearls before swine."
My brother-in-law, a dedicated long distance runner and marathoner at 70, was diagnosed with advance prostate cancer a couple of months ago. After much research and fussing they decided on a course of treatment (chemical suppression with anti-testosterone) and had just begun the treatments when he died suddenly in bed last week of an apparent heart attack. TANJ.
Van Morrison, the philosopher poet. Still writing and performing - turning 73 later this month.
Listen to "So Quiet in Here" or "When the Leaves Come Falling Down".
Life is fleeting. Aretha was a wonderful singer but in 50 years who will remember her? Why are we so obsessed with celebrities? The people I remember are my mom, my dad, the people who touched my heart. I was sad about some people’s death like Aretha but I didn’t really know them. I loved one dimension of them but the other dimensions I didn’t know. Maybe they were real assholes. Probably, because we all are assholes from time to time. In that sense I am glad I didn’t really know them. So Aretha I loved your singing and may God bless you for like all of us you are going to need more than a little foreguveness.
Who would impact me, celebrity-wise, I guess John Elway (because my kids grew up idolizing him) and Elton John.
The fact is there is a good chance I won’t experience that sadness as I will have died before them.
I’d probably add GW Bush.
Being of Detroit, the vultures will now swoop in-
No one talks of her children....for a reason.
every single Brady Bunch kid is still alive, but the Partridge Family , being edgier, has already, as one would have predicted, lost 2 (the youngest sister, Tracy, and the oldest brother, Keith).
Let's not any of us be afraid of death. God loves us all, and you know that is true. God wants us to care about each other, and to feel tremendously sad if we have not done what we could - in the little time we have on earth - to make someone else happier, or less sad.
There's no exception to the rule. Don't play the fool ....
Van Morrison, the philosopher poet. Still writing and performing - turning 73 later this month.
True, but arguably he hasn't recorded a great album since 1999's Back On Top
Live.. As throughout his career you never know if you will get sublime or surly, but he was great in Atlanta 2 or 3 ago..
Bowie.
Levon Helm.
I am very dark, but lovely,
O daughters of Jerusalem,
like the tents of Kedar,
like the curtains of Solomon.
Do not gaze at me because I am dark,
because the sun has looked upon me.
My mother's sons were angry with me;
they made me keeper of the vineyards,
but my own vineyard I have not kept!
Tell me, you whom my soul loves,
where you pasture your flock,
where you make it lie down at noon;
for why should I be like one who veils herself
beside the flocks of your companions?
AnI am very dark, but lovely,
O daughters of Jerusalem,
like the tents of Kedar,
like the curtains of Solomon.
6 Do not gaze at me because I am dark,
because the sun has looked upon me.
My mother's sons were angry with me;
they made me keeper of the vineyards,
but my own vineyard I have not kept!
7 Tell me, you whom my soul loves,
where you pasture your flock,
where you make it lie down at noon;
for why should I be like one who veils herself
beside the flocks of your companions?
AnI am very dark, but lovely,
O daughters of Jerusalem,
like the tents of Kedar,
like the curtains of Solomon.
6 Do not gaze at me because I am dark,
because the sun has looked upon me.
My mother's sons were angry with me;
they made me keeper of the vineyards,
but my own vineyard I have not kept!
7 Tell me, you whom my soul loves,
where you pasture your flock,
where you make it lie down at noon;
for why should I be like one who veils herself
beside the flocks of your companions...
A friend called, upset Aretha died, looking for a shoulder to sob on. He said she was "like an aunt" to him. As he talked, I thought of Stalin's death, and how even the kulaks, trapped by him in Siberian work camps for 30 years, cried when he died. We called him "Uncle Joe" as he slaughtered millions.
Stanley Clarke is trapped in Scientology - and trapping others - but few care.
Sorry, Folks, but nothing in Aretha's catalogue moves me that much....
rich hahn, yes, Van Morrison. Also, Rush Limbaugh, Don Imus, Neil Young (long may he run his mouth LOL). And this is off topic but if I ever lose another spouse it will kill me, or I will kill myself and go to be with them wherever they are. I don't care to go through that process again. Two or three additional years of depression and loneliness is more than I could bear at my age.
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