It can be scary even when you recognize that he was joking. He's President and in the position of enforcing the law, and from that position punching down. He really should not be joking about treason. And I get that he's punching back, and that's his style. But people aren't just idiots if they feel afraid of a President who isn't continually assuring us that he's aware of his profound responsibilities.Wasn't this scary — even though you know it's a joke?
And — in a would-be President — this:
IN THE COMMENTS: Matthew Sablan said:
I thought it was bad form to joke about auditing your enemies too. But for the most part, no one really cared. Even when Obama's enemies started getting audited. I still think it is bad form to joke about treason, but Trump has never been one to hold himself to rules his opponents won't follow.I cared about Obama's joke. It was terrible, despicable, and I would have been outraged by the joke on top of the joke It’s another scary day for the people who can’t tell when President Obama is joking.
Here's the video of Obama making the joke to cheers and laughter at Arizona State University in 2009.
ADDED: It's clear to me that Obama must have thought the joke was good because it's making fun of the overstatements of his critics. They are ridiculous to accuse him the way they do, so his talking like them is funny.
Posts
134 comments:
Is Inga running this blog today?
I thought it was bad form to joke about auditing your enemies too. But for the most part, no one really cared. Even when Obama's enemies started getting audited. I still think it is bad form to joke about treason, but Trump has never been one to hold himself to rules his opponents won't follow.
Reagan's "joke" was not actually a joke. There was a purpose and it is explained in one of his biographies. Maybe Steve Hayward's.
No. It wasn't scary.
People are far too credulous about what people say. People say shit. It's not scary.
"Wasn't this scary — even though you know it's a joke"
What's scary is people who think it's scary.
What Curious George said.
But people aren't just idiots if they feel afraid of a President who isn't continually assuring us that he's aware of his profound responsibilities.
It's not the idiocy, it's the obvious dishonesty in the affectation of fear.
Really scary for them:
September 2, 2016
Lisa Page: potus wants to know everything we're doing.
That gun is smoking!
You fail to understand that the real issue is Hilary Clinton and her cabal. Her existence and her conspiracies justify anything Trump does.
And I, for one, do believe that the Democrats are traitors and that every one of them should be in a cage in Gitmo. Or better, tied to a stake in the sun.
Also scary when President Obama threatened to drone/murder the Jonas Brothers.
He seemed to be joking. But he had no squeamishness about droning another 16 year old American so perhaps not.
John Henry
As with every other bit of ridiculous, disingenuous Trump hysteria, I'll get scared when the first Congressperson is hanged, and not before.
Matthew Sablan said...
I thought it was bad form to joke about auditing your enemies too. But for the most part, no one really cared. Even when Obama's enemies started getting audited. I still think it is bad form to joke about treason, but Trump has never been one to hold himself to rules his opponents won't follow.
I could not agree more.
The media outlets who treat Trump so differently (helllooooo CNN) get to pretend Republicans who complained about Obama are hypocrites for not liking the way they treat Trump. When Kamala Harris becomes president and is treated like a Goddess, CNN will be able to call Republicans hypocrites because they had called for easier treatment of Trump. They can justify this treatment to themselves.
But no, it isn't scary. Bad form, yeah. Scary is the IRS actually auditing conservative groups and asking for the prayers they will give, and nobody caring or paying a price. Scary is the VA letting Vets die and nobody paying the price. Scary is one president spying on the rival presidential campaign and nobody caring.
fivewheels said...
As with every other bit of ridiculous, disingenuous Trump hysteria, I'll get scared when the first Congressperson is hanged, and not before.
My response would depend on which Congressperson...
Today CNN has to cover the idea that Trump wants a military parade over and over and over. Of course, this is an idea that
a)must be ridiculed
b) must be hashed and rehashed throughout the day as if it's a big story
Once again, as Althouse noted the other day, CNN has to focus on what might happen.
Also, on CNN Joe Biden just called Trump a joke, when asked about this treason joke. JOE BIDEN! Called someone a joke!!!
What I noticed was how Trump seemed to channel Reagan's "there you go again" expression/headshake/headtilt when he said...
They certainly didn't seem to love our country very much."
Is there a safe space now at Meadehouse?
As an aside, I'm guessing Chuck now thinks he and Althouse are going steady.
There's the Crying Wolf effect as well when every day you hear that Trump (or Bush or Reagan) is Hitler.
But being serious when call someone Hitler and large groups of people Nazis is OK.
Pookie Number 2 said...
But people aren't just idiots if they feel afraid of a President who isn't continually assuring us that he's aware of his profound responsibilities.
It's not the idiocy, it's the obvious dishonesty in the affectation of fear.
2/7/18, 7:54 AM
Makes me want them to know real fear, so they can tell the difference.
Maybe decimation. How about every tenth* conspirator in the Obama-Hillary Administration be executed?** That seems moderate - reasonable, in fact.*** Even ALillianHellMan should agree. But no coin flips for Hillary. She's too lucky.
* negotiable, PDJT makes the best deals
** I'll be generous - their choice of death by: Nine grams, shark, or bunga bunga.
Blogger Ignorance is Bliss said...
fivewheels said...
As with every other bit of ridiculous, disingenuous Trump hysteria, I'll get scared when the first Congressperson is hanged, and not before.
My response would depend on which Congressperson...
2/7/18, 8:12 AM
D00ds! What do you think we've been waiting for?!?
There is a pattern here.
Democrats pay for 2nd hand dirt from Russians, former KGB and government officials, and get an investigation into Trump/Russia collusion by using powerful government institutions. Democrats have used the system to create a pall over the presidency: Trump is a traitor working with Russians to harm America.
Trump jokes about treason in the open, with all the evidence available for everyone to see, and Trump is a bad person.
Democrats game the CBO, Obama lies to the American people and we get a massive new government program in the ACA, and no biggee.
Trump exaggerates and lies in ways we all understand are exaggeration and lies, and Trump isn't presidential.
Democrats are using sticks and stones in the fight, and Trump uses names and persuasion.
Perhaps Trump would be a better politician if he used the DOJ to put Hillary in jail or make her life miserable.
Thou shall not discuss St. Obama in those terms. Thou must worship with blind faith, like a good hiveminder, St. Obama.
You know whats scary, the texts indicating that Obama not only knew about the spying of Trump, but wanted to know everything they were doing.
But Obama really did sic the IRS on Tea Party groups. So his joke really wasn't a joke.
If Trump brings treason charges against those who didn't clap for his speech, I'll change my opinion of his joke.
St. Obama is on George Clooney's yacht. Leave him alone.
I cared about Obama's joke. It was terrible, despicable, and I would have been outraged by the joke on top of the joke, "It’s another scary day for the people who can’t tell when President Obama is joking..."
Ditto. What a wonderful insight by Althouse. Brava.
I thought about it overnight too. I decided that in some sense you could say the Democratic Party betrayed not only African Americans but the American working class in general, in which African Americans are disproportionately represented. They did it — and continue to do it — by supporting free mobility of labor and capital in a world characterized by vast continental disparities of income and wealth. These are policies which reward capital, including human capital (upper-middle class professionals with good, highly-educated brains), at the expense of the average American . In that sense they are traitors to ("have betrayed") our middle-class democracy. And they are paying the price for it.
Trump has never been one to hold himself to rules his opponents won't follow.
Translation: Somewhere, sometime, a Democrat did something really bad, so how can I possibly think poorly of anything a Republican ever does?
Obama wanted to know everything.
Let's recap: Obama's "Joke" was not a joke: he really did sic the IRS on people. He said it with a smile, because he thought it was funny to see people pretend it wasn't going to happen; and because he genuinely liked being a tyrant.
Trump's joke is a joke, because for Hitler in person, yadda yadda yadda, those media and Democrats sure get to say an awful lot of things about Trump and Republicans that curiously has not resulted in them being shot, hung, or otherwise suffer any consequence at all. If Trump's a dictator crushing dissent, he is the most inept one in history. FDR was much, much better.
--Vance
As an aside, I'm guessing Chuck now thinks he and Althouse are going steady.
And, not an hour later:
Ditto. What a wonderful insight by Althouse. Brava.
Yep. Curious George nails it.
I'm done caring about Presidential norms. No one else cares. And our media is always willing to give a pass to those they favor and overreact to those they don't. I'm done playing the game.
Isn’t the whole fucking witch hunt against Trump based on the presumption of treason?
Goodness, for a moment I thought Jovita Micheal was chuck.
What Exiled and Unknown Vance said. It's a joke until his actions show otherwise. Once again, watch what he does, not what he says.
What is good for the goose is good for the gander.
I Callahan said...
As an aside, I'm guessing Chuck now thinks he and Althouse are going steady.
And, not an hour later:
Ditto. What a wonderful insight by Althouse. Brava.
Yep. Curious George nails it.
Haha! I didn't even see that. I read the Althouse post, and the sentence I quoted jumped out at me as a great one. And I commented in agreement, without reading anyone of the foregoing comments.
But assuredly, Althouse and I would not be "going steady" if I were to ask if she now regretted doing what I never did, which was to cast a vote for Barack Obama.
Anyway, Curious George did sort of nail it, didn't he? Was he thinking of that one sentence that I quoted? I sort of hope so.
Jovita Micheal - I have been living with my wife with a small penis in my marriage...
Now that's pretty funny on several different levels. I really enjoy writing well commenters can explain English things politics joking beneath the Trump President.
People who couldn't tell Obama was quite serious are a far bigger problem than those of us who knew he was serious when he threatened to use the power of the federal government against his political enemies.
People who cannot see that Obama was serious - and Reagan was joking - are the problem.
I guess it is unfair to call what Obama did was a joke, when it was treated like an order by the IRS.
I did not comment on the last post, but I have been pondering it. A Rep. Paul Gosar, last Friday, called the memo "clear and convincing evidence of treason." It was unclear to me if Trump was making a joke or agreeing with Rep. Gosar.
With great power comes great responsibility. "Will someone rid me of this troublesome Priest?" What if this was a joke? What if you cannot tell if it was, or was not, a joke?
Treason is a serious crime, for which death is the punishment.
It's fine for the joker to joke at the King's Court. It's far less funny when the King is the jokester, joking about death and treason.
By the way, what's wrong with Reagan's "We begin bombing in 5 minutes" comment? Don't we want a President who wants to win, and has the mindset of actually taking on our enemies?
I know that some people on the left seem to think that we should surrender to any and all enemies while they vigorously try to crush Americans... but as for me, I don't think Viktor Quisling was a great role model. I guess they do.
--Vance
They are ridiculous to accuse him the way they do, so his talking like them is funny.
Of course we know that he had IRS files on Republicans in the WH and claimed executive privilege on the matter. Inga’s Razor applies here. If there are facts that get in the way of your preferred conclusion, shave them away with Inga’s Razor.
Oh and WWWW? What if it was in fact treason? Have you considered that?
Ted Kennedy approached the General Secretary of the Soviet Union and offered to cancel Star Wars if the Soviets would help him win the Presidency. Was that treason? I would say it was, and Kennedy should have been shot or hung for that action. Sadly, that would have been "Political" and so Kennedy got away with it, even after the Verona stuff was released. And Democrats celebrated Kennedy and called him their role model, even though they knew he was a traitor.
So when is treason by Democrats supposed to be punished? Or are they immune forever? Genuinely curious here. These are the same people who still think that Julian and Ethel Rosenberg were heroes for betraying the US, after all.
--Vance
Treason is a serious crime, for which death is the punishment.
So would it be treasonous to conspire with the Russians to win the presidency while compromised by them and in their debt? Because that’s what the Hillary campaign accused Trump of.
“Let's recap: Obama's "Joke" was not a joke: he really did sic the IRS on people. He said it with a smile, because he thought it was funny to see people pretend it wasn't going to happen; and because he genuinely liked being a tyrant.“
It was a joke from his point of view because he believed or wanted you to think he believed that the accusations wrere not true.
If the accusations were true, all the more reason to use a joke.
"It's clear to me that Obama must have thought the joke was good because it's making fun of the overstatements of his critics."
-- It may have been funny until we learned the IRS did audit his enemies.
The idea that Trump is "punching down" is interesting and worth exploring.
On the grounds of his official position, yes, he is.
If everything worked according to official procedure and hierarchical power relations applied, etc., and if institutional power existed in a vacuum.
However, the actual situation is very different. Trump is an interloper in the palace, with nearly every mechanism of the state, down to its bones, inimical to him, and moreover nearly every non-state elite power center also his deadly enemy. And this applies to much if not most of his political party and its financial backers.
All Trump has behind him is a plurality of the electorate and critical elements of the armed forces, the combat branches as opposed to much of the Washington bureaucracy. It is no accident that he has allied with Kelly and Mattis. In real-world terms as opposed to the by-the-rules facade, which is the practical way to see it, he is in an extremely weak position.
Looking at it in banana republic terms is the correct POV.
Well, I guess I'll buy that, Althouse: Obama's joke was on us. We all thought he was joking... but in reality the joke really was: "Ha, stupid rubes! They really believe I won't do this! Ha ha, how stupid of them! Don't they know that every leftist country spies on its citizenry?"
If that's the joke, sure, it's a joke. Kind of like FDR's campaign promise that we'd not get involved in WWII, no matter what--all while he was plotting to get us in.
Not really funny though.
--Vance
Obama pardoned the traitor Bradley Manning in the final days of his presidency.
Meaning Obama released a traitor when he knew he would pay no political price for doing so. It was a cowardly act.
That was far worse than Trump joking about treasonous democrats.
Hard to be sympathetic towards the targets of Trump’s joke when their side is so casual about tossing the same charge at him and at his supporters. Doubly so when Obama “joked” about auditing his enemies, and then did so. Just sayin’.
Trump has read Gulliver’s Travels, no way he lets the Lilliputians tie him down.
Tim in Vermont said...
Isn’t the whole fucking witch hunt against Trump based on the presumption of treason?
2/7/18, 9:34 AM
Yes.
"Trump has never been one to hold himself to rules his opponents won't follow."
This applies to his supporters, too. It is the big change that Trump has wrought.
Matthew Sablan said...
I guess it is unfair to call what Obama did was a joke, when it was treated like an order by the IRS.
Well, no. I don't think that is what happened at all.
Do the people here remember what happened in the IRS scandal (and it was a scandal)?
When the story first broke in the news, Obama appeared genuinely pissed off. Pissed off enough to say things that he'd have to walk back later. Obama's first take on the story was that it was "outrageous if true."
That tells me it wasn't his "order"; he had to walk it all back later.
I guess I need to be clear when writing on this space. I think the IRS scandal was a real, genuine, serious scandal. I think that the failure to get any good prosecutions out of it was a scandal. I think Obama's initial reaction was correct; that it was "outrageous if true," and I think it was indeed true.
But I don't think it was any sort of Obama order. I think it was the Democrat-sympathizing mid- and higher-level partisan loyal Democrats that pollute so much of the Washington regulatory world. Liberal bureaucrats, not a "Deep State."
This applies to his supporters, too. It is the big change that Trump has wrought.
Trump's superpower is that he corrupts foes and friends alike.
Oh and I meant to say in response to Matthew -- this is important -- the IRS wouldn't have treated Obama's joke as an "order" because Obama wasn't making any jokes about it at all until the whole thing had blown up.
The chronology doesn't come close to supporting any Obama "joke" as an "order." First came the story and the scandal and the activity by the IRS that was wrong, and then only way after the fact came the Obama joke.
For people asking me, "is this treason?" Treason is a specific, serious legal charge.
I am deeply cautious of the casual use of this term. Casual use may downgrade the seriousness of the crime. There are lesser charges. Treason is specific and the highest charge.
I would not accuse anyone of this high crime without extensive information, testimony, evidence and detail that the crime fit that specific legal definition.
It is ill-advised to throw around this term lightly.
Birkel said...
“People who couldn't tell Obama was quite serious are a far bigger problem than those of us who knew he was serious when he threatened to use the power of the federal government against his political enemies.
People who cannot see that Obama was serious - and Reagan was joking - are the problem.“
They can see it.
They are either cowards or complicit.
Trump might have been “joking.” But it is apparent and obvious the democrat party is full of people who epitomize the word traitor. Obama is clearly an enemy of everything this country was founded on.
Worth remembering that every woman who credibly accused Bill Clinton of harassment or worse had their taxes audited.
LLR Chuck: "I think Obama's initial reaction was correct; that it was "outrageous if true," and I think it was indeed true."
LOL
LLR Chuck has become impossible to caricature.
“I would not accuse anyone of this high crime without extensive information, testimony, evidence and detail that the crime fit that specific legal definition.
It is ill-advised to throw around this term lightly.“
Spying on political opponents fits nicely. Espionage act and conspiracy slide right under. RICO could make an appearance.
I would not accuse anyone of this high crime without extensive information, testimony, evidence and detail that the crime fit that specific legal definition.
It is ill-advised to throw around this term lightly.
I agree it would have been better to keep that horse in the barn... However...
Senior lawmakers have said that Donald Trump Jr. may have committed a criminal offense for agreeing to meet a Russian lawyer who promised dirt on Hillary Clinton, and could even be guilty of treason.
Clinton’s running mate in the 2016 election, Senator Tim Kaine, told reporters: “The investigation—it’s not, nothing is proven yet, but we’re now beyond obstruction of justice in terms of what's being investigated. This is moving into perjury, false statements and even potentially treason.”
Hillary’s running mate, and he wasn’t joking. That was five seconds on Duck Duck Go.
If Obama was upset, and I'll buy that he was, it was because the secret was out. He was upset it leaked, not that it happened. This is the same guy that illegally got his Senate opponent's sealed divorce records released, after all. He wasn't upset about spying on his political opponents--just that he got caught.
--Vance
Inga’s Razon, however, removes the context that Democrats have been accusing Trump of treason for a year, without any factual basis.
The same Obama who demanded updates from FBI fixers Strzok and Page.
(eaglebeak)
Except it wasn't ridiculous to characterize Obama that way, as it turned out.
Also, Obama was heavily into threats, which he sometimes tried to cover with inadequate humor--like telling McCain and the GOP "I won."
We all know or think we know that Trump is, as it were, professionally outrageous and says whatever the hell he feels like saying.
But we had to hear for so many years about Obama's cool, collected, cerebral ratiocination that I choose to take all his "lighter" or "unscripted" moments literally as well as seriously.
Trump is New York--Obama is Chicago.
New York is a much more livable place.
@wwww, and I agree with you, sort of. But unless you make it plain that you are ready to come down just as hard on people from the left side of the political spectrum who abuse the term as you are ready to complain about Trump, then it smacks of telling Trump to fight back, but gently, so as to not disturb Jonah Goldberg, or even Chuck.
“POTUS wants to know everything we are doing”
Is it scarier to label an act traitorous or to commit a traitorous act?
"Trump's superpower is that he corrupts foes and friends alike."
His foes and friends are inherently corrupt.
Trump corrupts nothing, rather he reveals the existing condition.
He is a remover of illusions of all kinds. A ripper-off of scabs covering active infections.
If you don't like how things appear, consider the possibility that you have avoided acknowledging many realities for a very long time.
This upsets many people.
Buwaya said...
“All Trump has behind him is a plurality of the electorate and critical elements of the armed forces, the combat branches as opposed to much of the Washington bureaucracy. It is no accident that he has allied with Kelly and Mattis. In real-world terms as opposed to the by-the-rules facade, which is the practical way to see it, he is in an extremely weak position.“
It has always been thus.
The majority of people in the world are unwilling or apathetic enough to go along with whatever happens. Most people in China are happy with their system despite a complete lack of political freedom. They would rather be free but oh well.
It is not far different here. Even some of the people on the right here clearly don’t like that Obama was a traitor and a tyrant that tried to destroy the foundations of freedom and our republic. You can see how they were clearly going to let everything the democrats are doing to pull off a coup slide.
The number of people who actually keep the United States a free country is not very big.
The movie Winter Soldier actually describes the situation very accurately.
Claiming that Trump seriously accused those Democrats of treason reminds me of one of those great old Russian jokes.
“Is it true that Akopian had won last Sunday hundred thousand rubles in the state lottery?”
We’re answering: “Yes, it is true. Only it was not last Sunday but Monday. And it was not Akopian but Vagramian. And not in the state lottery but in checkers. And not hundred thousand but one hundred rubles. And not won but lost.”
Earnest Prole wrote:
"Trump's superpower is that he corrupts foes and friends alike."
I am sure you would like to believe that, but the point is that following rules your enemies makes for you but don't follow themselves is foolish.
“And this applies to his supporters, too. It is the big change that Trump has wrought.”
——————————-
“Trump's superpower is that he corrupts foes and friends alike.”
——————————-
The most cogent comment in this entire thread.
It’s #SAD that Russian jokes are so applicable now.
A rabbit ran wildly in the street.
"Why are you running like mad?" a bear asked.
"Don't you know, they are now arresting all camels and castrating them."
"But you're rabbit, not a camel."
"Right, but if they catch you, and cut off your nuts, then you can prove that you're not a camel!
Althouse: He's President and in the position of enforcing the law, and from that position punching down.
Executive branch and legislative branches are co-equal, so he's not "punching down" when he attacks Congress. I'm pretty sure the executive branch has absolutely no authority to prosecute a congressman for treason, especially not when said "treason" occurs within the performance of their congressional duties.
It's not at all like Obama joking about auditing private citizens.
"But I don't think it was any sort of Obama order. I think it was the Democrat-sympathizing mid- and higher-level partisan loyal Democrats that pollute so much of the Washington regulatory world. Liberal bureaucrats, not a "Deep State."
Liberal bureaucrats are the very definition of a "Deep State". Or one component thereof.
And, note, that Obama did nothing.
We can speculate on why, but it is prudent to be suspicious.
Such as that it indicates, perhaps, where the power lay in that Obama-state relationship. If this was a matter of "rogue" indiscipline on the part of minor functionaries it would not have taken so many years to resolve.
And that Obama went with the first option presented by his messaging crew. I.e., to "feel their pain" as Clinton did so often, but stonewall in the background.
Right here is classic Chuck:
Chuck said...
"Oh and I meant to say in response to Matthew -- this is important -- the IRS wouldn't have treated Obama's joke as an "order" because Obama wasn't making any jokes about it at all until (emphasis added by YW) the whole thing had blown up."
Now, Chuck, I want you to reread Ms. Althouse's blog entry right to the bottom and answer me this question- which year comes first 2009 or 2013?
The most cogent comment in this entire thread
LOL! Did Trump take $145 million from Putin and do him many energy favors, from killing Keystone to Uranium One? That was the choice! Emoluments? No! Because reasons!
Did Trump take millions from Bernard Schwartz, and as a favor, give missile technology to the Chinese because he needed them to launch his satellites without them blowing up?
Did Trump take millions from the Lippo Group and put a trillion dollars in American coal that was slated to be used by Mexico to run a giant power plant there, off limits, so that the coal had to be bought from the Lippo Group in Indonesia?
No, that’s all Clinton stuff.
You guys have a funny definition of corruption! Clean up your own act.
Maybe though you could point out one example of Trump corruption anything like the above?
If you want cogent on corruption, Inga, buwaya does it for you much better:
"His foes and friends are inherently corrupt.
Trump corrupts nothing, rather he reveals the existing condition.
He is a remover of illusions of all kinds. A ripper-off of scabs covering active infections."
That is precisely correct.
No, Inga’s Razor removes all notion of corruption by Democrats from the table, since such facts, if conceded to exist, would tend to weaken her arguments.
“Trump's superpower is that he corrupts foes and friends alike.”
That's half-true.
He is a remover of illusions of all kinds.
He is the light bringer and the cockroaches are upset.
While a bipartisan two year budget agreement is reached in the Congress, Trump calls for a government shut down yesterday. A Republican had to correct him yesterday on his wishing for a shutdown.
The man is an incompetent joke.
Sounds like Schumer finally backed down on including DACA in the government funding bill.
Sounds like Schumer finally backed down on including DACA in the government funding bill.
Yeah, Trump is an incompetent joke who seems to always get what he wants, and Hillary was super-competent, yet seemed always to be frustrated in getting what she wanted. It’s a mystery!
No, Inga, Trump was basically telling Schumer that if he tried to shut the government down over DACA again, he, Trump was quite OK with that outcome since it had worked so spectacularly a month prior. Schumer quite smartly has learned his lesson.
Seems like Inga’s short lived fascination with the DOW is over. I guess investors finally decided they could live with higher wages for working people.
One of the first rules of persuasion, according the Dale Carnegie, was that you had at least seem persuadable yourself. This is where Inga and Chuck fall down.
Tim,
I don't know, did Paul Krugman write another column on Monday saying the market wouldn't recover again? Maybe that was why the market stabilized and started rising again.
#StrongObamaDefender
#DifficultToParody
"Obama appeared genuinely pissed off."
Of course, he did.
That's why the IRS cooperated so well in the investigation once Obama found out.
Obama was so angry at the IRS that there were reports he flew into a rage and was busting up hard drives and computers all over the place.
From last night’s “Another scary day …”
But people aren't just idiots if they feel afraid of a President who isn't continually assuring us that he's aware of his profound responsibilities.
Of course they are not JUST idiots! They are also nincompoops, scare-mongers, liars, outrage pretenders and virtue signalers.
Wasn't this scary — even though you know it's a joke?
No, it wasn’t scary for me. It was funny. Maybe that’s because I have a sense of humor.
And, crickets from Chuck. What a shock.
"Obama's first take on the story was that it was "outrageous if true.""
-- And he was faking it or lying. Just like he lied about not knowing about Clinton's secret server. Just like he lied about not knowing about gunwalking.
"The chronology doesn't come close to supporting any Obama "joke" as an "order."
-- Obama's comment was in 2009; the targeting scandal came to a head in 2013 involving the 2012 election cycle.
Matthew, I point that out to Chuck, but he vanished like a fart in the wind.
In fact, Obama ALSO lied about believing a video started a riot at Benghazi when he knew that wasn't true.
Obama lied a lot about things that made his administration look bad.
But, sure, let's believe THIS ONE, where they did something he wanted them to do, joked with them about doing, was the one time he really didn't know.
Matthew, I point that out to Chuck, but he vanished like a fart in the wind.
That's because you're focused on trivialities like whether Obama abused his political power. Chuck is only interested in important things. Like whether Trump said a bad word.
It is fun watching leftists like Chuck argue that Obama was stupid and incompetent rather than a traitorous despot.
How do you know if you're really scared or just virtue signaling?
Oh, right. You will tell us which one it is.
Just like with bomb threats, real attacks don't give warnings. In fact, in politics the real thing is denied long after being done, usually forever.
I'm now to the point where I don't feel truely safe somewhere unless there is a bomb threat.
"I cared about Obama's joke. It was terrible, despicable"
really?
Who did you vote for in 2012? Was it even possible for Obama to get your vote in 2012? Yes?
Then no, you didn't really care about the joke. Because there's only one way to show you care about what a politician is doing, and that is to refuse to vote for or support him or her.
Anything else is mental masturbation
Obama joke to bunch of students about their administration "despicable"? Talk about weird standards.
I love to read comments on this board since it's like an oldies radio station. Playing the greatest hits of the 00's, 90's, even 60's.
Meanwhile, get ready for the greatest military parade ever!
gregq, I believe Ann has stated she voted for Obama in '08 but not in '12.
Along comes readering to throw its support behind the use of the IRS to silence American citizens, deprive them of civil liberties, and generally weaponize government bureaucracy.
I will mark readering down for "Yes" to fascism.
Actually, readering, this board seems very 2010's to me. Divided and full of snark...that's very 2018!
Gotta love the MSM, so far failing to report on Lisa Page's text message "that Potus wants to updates on everything" re the Clinton email investigation....and here I thought Obama did not know nothing about nothing unless he first heard it on the news?
Well, it's not a surprise, Birkel. Leftists are a-ok with state persecution of people they don't like. Have been since Jacobian times. Ever notice how not a one of them ever said it was bad that Lenin had the entire family of Nicholas murdered extrajudicially, including Anastasia? They really don't care, at all.
That's what state power is for, after all: to punish people the Left doesn't like. State power used against leftists--that's bad. It's why the only dictators the left doesn't love are Franco, Pinochet, and Hitler... but only after he invaded the Soviet Union. Before that, he was their hero.
So of course Readering is not at all troubled by Obama turning the US government into the Gestapo...he's a leftist, and that's what he wants. As long as it's only used against Republicans, conservatives, Christians, etc he's going to cheer it on. Witness the John Doe in Wisconsin stuff--either ignored or cheered on by our leftists of all stripes.
One of the main reasons for the Trump hysteria is that they are afraid that Trump will use these weapons against them... but they don't want the weapons gone. Just not that they will be used against them.
--Vance
Yeah. That Obama guy.
A fucking laugh a minute, he was.
My sides still hurt.
Obama joking about the tax audits was kind of like a Joe Pesci character joking about whacking you. Even after he makes it clear he's only joking, you might laugh, but nervously, and always glancing over your shoulder.
readering,
Are you Reader i am? I thought I saw something earlier about that, but can't remember-
Mike,
But unless you make it plain that you are ready to come down just as hard on people from the left side
All Sides. I don't think we should criticize Henry the II but approve of Cromwell for this sort of behaviour: "Will no one rid me of this troublesome priest" "Oh, wait, just joking!!
I do not think it's a good idea for Whigs or Tories. Nor for a Puritan Lord Protector or a Catholic King. Nor Presidents or those in power from all parties.
I do not think it's a good idea for Whigs or Tories. Nor for a Puritan Lord Protector or a Catholic King. Nor Presidents or those in power from all parties.
Why it almost sounds as though you’re proposing that we act as if the maxim of our action were to become through our will a universal law of nature.
"I love to read comments on this board since it's like an oldies radio station. Playing the greatest hits of the 00's, 90's, even 60's. "
Humanity doesn't change, at least not on historical time scales.
All this stuff is the same old same old.
You would do well to study the greatest hits of, say, the 120's BC
Apparently when Obama made the joke, the IRS thought took it as direction, with the acquiescence of the mainstream media. With Trump, even if he gave it as direction, there is little chance that Justice department would go along with it, and no chance the judiciary would do so. And all along, the press would scream bloody murder.
I get that people believe that the president should hold themselves to a higher standard. But the funny thing about that. That seems to only apply to presidents and people we dislike. People we like, we tend to be a lot more charitable with, even defensive of their transgressions.
I personally prefer Trump avoid these kinds of jokes and rhetoric, and I don't think they serve him well. But the fainting-couch-act gets old, especially from all those who in Congress and media who regularly and freely accuse the president of treason, without any meaningful pushback. For a pit-fighter like Trump, I can imagine how hard it can be to soar above it. Especially knowing that if Obama had been similarly treated by the Republican opposition, the press would be a-furor with chances of racism, which they were willing to throw out for a lot less.
The rationales here are exquisitely wrought, but it would be far more intellectually honest (and save everyone a great deal of time) to simply say it’s good when Trump does it and bad when Obama does it because of the glaringly obvious fact that Republicans are always good and Democrats are always evil.
Sorry but people who "feel afraid of a President who isn't continually assuring us that he's aware of his profound responsibilities" are either (a) in need of psychiatric care, (b) idiots, or (c) dishonest.
"Continually assuring us"??? When did the American mainstream become so trembling soft?
Earnest Prole said...
The rationales here are exquisitely wrought, but it would be far more intellectually honest (and save everyone a great deal of time) to simply say it’s good when Trump does it and bad when Obama does it because of the glaringly obvious fact that Republicans are always good and Democrats are always evil.
2/7/18, 4:21 PM
Well that's always been the important thing to us dopey commenters, Earnie, saving you some time.
You could save more if you quit blogging here, but as baby steps, you could stop telling people what they think, or indeed, what *to* think. Wonder how your Hegel or Kant or whichever jerkoff you're pushing would think about that. Just fucking off. Whichever one is your hero should have been strangled with the intestines of the other one.
Really, your shit posting is how you think everyone should treat each other? Yeah, some "vibrant" society you got there. Let's all go see what your blog looks like. Can't wait.
I thought both jokes were in bad taste. How does the Trump is right Obama was wrong meme work for me?
"...it’s good when Trump does it"
There is the minor quibble about whether Trump has has done "it".
I don't see where Trump has used the FedGov to persecute his political opponents.
Perhaps I am missing something?
Really, your shit posting is how you think everyone should treat each other?
Don’t get spittle all over your beard. It takes far longer for commenters to write things than it takes to read them, so my modest proposal is made in the spirit of altruism.
Ernest Prole, I'm a libertarian RINO who would like to nudge the GOP in a more consistently pro-freedom direction, just as socialists in the 1930s infiltrated the Democratic Party and moved in a statist direction. I look at the battle between the two major parties as Eliot Ness might have looked at the turf war between Al Capone and Bugs Moran: if he favored the Moran gang at all, it would have been because the latter may have been slightly less of a threat to the public.
Which is why I might cut the GOP some slack I wouldn't cut Barry the Red Diaper Baby and his gang. One menaces me less severely than the other
I mean, if a "liberal" State-shtupper said he was going to steal more of your money wouldn't it be prudent to believe him until such time as it was proven he was joking? Whereas Reagan's "we start bombing in five minutes" was clearly a joke that only the stupidest of "liberals" (the kind who really believe in their snake oil) would take seriously.
The only 'joke' in Obama's line about auditing his opponents is the implication that he knows it's wrong but also knows he'll get away with it, and he's letting the audience of his supporters chortle like a bunch of bully's toadies.
I'm a libertarian RINO who would like to nudge the GOP in a more consistently pro-freedom direction
I’m mostly lamenting the kitschy Baghdad Bob/Popular Front aesthetics of swallowing with relish every last word that emerges from the Dear Leader’s mouth, but let’s talk actual principles. Shouldn’t a freedom-loving, libertarian-leaning Republican be ever-so-slightly allergic to an American President impersonating a king, even in jest? Because when an American President says his political opponents’ body language is treasonous, or that he wants his political enemies audited, he’s speaking the words of a dictator. Someone (in, say, the IRS or the military) may not get the joke, and the next thing you know you’re getting a letter from the IRS saying you have hidden income, or watching soldiers and weapons parading around just like in France and other third-world shitholes.
My impression of Trump's comment there was that it was somewhat serious, but that the "treasonous" didn't bear on the non-clapping, but on what Trump considers anti-American attitudes that lie behind their policies. He has every right to say that. What have they been saying about him? Rules have to be reciprocal to be rules. They aren't reciprocal.
And I think you are out of touch if you don't understand just how deeply that resonates with many. You can't discriminate against anyone for employment in this country - by law - based on national origin - but YOU CAN REFUSE TO HIRE ANY AMERICAN CITIZEN. That has been going on for years and years in this country. Jobs advertised, "this is an H1B position".
In schools all across this country, students have not been allowed to wear military insignia. Even at graduation. Because THAT'S OFFENSIVE. Wearing a flag pin is considered "iffy". Students are told in Texas schools that they can't wear or display an American flag, but on Cinco de Mayo Mexican flags are everywhere.
You can burn a flag, but you can't burn a Koran. You can burn bibles all day long, but you can't burn a Koran, no, no, no. That's hate. The whole reason that the NFL is in trouble is that people are FED UP WITH IT. Generally you can get away with wearing a Black Lives Matter t-shirt - but tons of schools won't allow students to wear anything military-related, police-supporting or even anything as generic as the American flag, because THAT'S racist!
What the hell does it do to a boy who's so proud of his older brother he could burst, and he's suspended for wearing this?
http://eagnews.org/student-suspended-after-wearing-military-memorial-shirt-honoring-marine-brother/
Student not allowed to wear Marine Corps uniform at HS graduation:
http://www.wmur.com/article/school-says-grad-can-t-wear-marine-corps-uniform-at-graduation/5182106
You are out of touch with reality. Obama did this shit for years on end, and you never called him on it. The double standard in academia is so cohesive that the sad inmates of that cultural insane asylum don't even see it any more. You haven't been out of the asylum for long enough to see it with objective eyes.
If Trump is on a mission to make it politically and culturally respectable to be patriotic in public again, there's a real reason for it. And people will LOVE him for it. Normal people "get" why so many people are offended by the NFL protests. Normal people "get" what Trump is doing AND why he is doing it.
It's not just well-meaning idiots. It's courts that allow schools to ban kids from wearing American flags. It's courts who support the right of students (correctly IMO) to wear hijab to schools - but wearing crosses has gotten a lot students in hot water:
https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20101008005979/en/ACLJ-Demands-Colorado-School-Permit-Student-Wear
http://www.frc.org/updatearticle/20170421/florida-school
Kids aren't going to be told to stop reading Korans in school, but they are still getting in trouble for having bibles:
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/05/05/teacher-tells-student-cant-read-bible-in-my-classroom.html
http://wreg.com/2015/01/06/student-told-he-could-not-read-bible-during-school-free-time/
Trump is also clearly trying to model an inclusive patriotism - a center around which we can gather rather than some exclusionary farce. He's probably not the best sort of person to do this sort of thing, but who else is even willing to take it on?
Oh, and the RNC has already made an ad from the SOTU footage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyRuEzlpTXg
The culture wars weren't really started by the deplorables, but now they are fighting back in the arena of words, which, as Jordan Peterson would remind you, is the basis of physical peace in our society. It's the ability to publicly argue that allows us to have a peaceful society.
The reason why ordinary people so despise what academia has become is because it is leftist dominated and it has almost succeeded in many realms in blurring the distinction between arguments in words and arguments in violence. It is a complete violation of all reason and all hope for the future to do so. It is fundamentally antithetical to the Constitution of the United States.
All in public service who do not support the Constitution are in violation of their oaths, and very few prominent people in public service currently hold to those oaths. It is the people who do send their sons and daughters to the military who understand very exactly what a death march academia is trying to organize for our society. They have no intention of being in that parade of fools - or of being trampled by it.
Well said, MaxedOutMama. Very well said.
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