"... in a very informal signing ceremony bereft of other notable personages. This was a kinder and gentler Donald Trump that more of America needs to see. A particularly nice touch: instead of handing the signing pens to the politicians, who were not present anyway, he offered the souvenirs to the news camera men and microphone boom holders — the faceless laborers of the news industry...."
Writes David Blaska, with video of the low-key, rambling but nice Trump event.
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२०४ टिप्पण्या:
204 पैकी 1 – 200 नवीन› नवीनतम»Why wouldn't he be gracious?
Don't be kind and gentle to the PC shock troops.
Trump was always a gentleman otherwise.
How quickly he has pivoted away from "You're FIRED!!"
"He was most gracious, even to the hastily assembled news media in a very informal signing ceremony bereft of other notable personages. This was a kinder and gentler Donald Trump that more of America needs to see."
You think this is the first instance? Our media is working overtime to make sure nothing like that happens.
I never knew giving away the pen was a thing. It just seems one of those silly, ceremonial things I never will understand.
Trump is gracious until he is attacked. I have a low opinion of these people who accuse Trump of being a bully when he attacks back.
I never knew giving away the pen was a thing
It's worse...it's not usually just one pen..but many. I've seen presidents use a different pen for each letter in their name to have enough to pass out to the 'right" people.
As far as government stupidity and waste goes, it's pretty minor though.
"Trump is gracious until he is attacked."
-- His prickly nature is one way he's very much like Obama. As long as you give him due deference and stay out of his way, he'll say nice things about you.
Of course, he'd be gracious. He won!
"Of course, he'd be gracious. He won!"
-- You don't think maybe we should parade with a giant gavel and tweet "IT'S THE LAW?"
I'm not sure the media understands Trump or billionaires for that matter.
Every concrete physical need is met. Houses, boats, cars, women, vacations, etc. They have staff to handle all the normal drudgery that engulfs normal folks like us.
So, What else matters in their world? Prestige - not much else.
Matthew Sablan said...
"Of course, he'd be gracious. He won!"
-- You don't think maybe we should parade with a giant gavel and tweet "IT'S THE LAW?"
12/22/17, 1:25 PM
Brilliant!!!! Here's a reminder....http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/06/flashback-pelosi-taunts-tea-party-with-big-a-gavel-on-her-way-to-house-to-ram-through-obamacare/
So glad he decided to sign today! Corey Lewandowski said on FBN the other day that Trump would not sign until early January! Of course, I fired off an email to the President urging him to please sign it before Christmas. Apparently, I wasn't the only one. ;-)
As long as he is surrounded by his sycophants he’s happy...and gracious. The love fest the other day rivaled a Kim Jung Un worship service. The GOP has learned how to get their way with Trump, ass kissing extraordinaire. These over the top praise sessions will make good political ads for 2018.
I heard he didn’t take it too well when those 6 polls came out showing a huge wave for Democrats in November. Ah well, that’s politics.
It might be that those who are not accustomed to speaking their mind honestly can't read Trump at all.
"He was most gracious, even to the hastily assembled news media in a very informal signing ceremony bereft of other notable personages. This was a kinder and gentler Donald Trump that more of America needs to see."
And yet the media has no intention of portraying him as anything other than Hitler reincarnated. The word for it this is Advocacy Journalism.
"The love fest the other day rivaled a Kim Jung Un worship service."
-- Well, it was a big f'ing deal.
As long as he is surrounded by his sycophants he’s happy...and gracious. The love fest the other day rivaled a Kim Jung Un worship service. The GOP has learned how to get their way with Trump, ass kissing extraordinaire. These over the top praise sessions will make good political ads for 2018.
Well, I just had a nice shot of 12-year old Scotch from one of the junior colleagues here, as we brake for the office Christmas party. At said party, I intend to drink copious amounts of alcohol, sing the praises of our President with other like-minded sycophants, and grab an ass or two, claiming mere inadvertence, mistake or drunkenness.
@dreams "Trump is gracious until he is attacked."
But all politicians face "attack", as you put it (I suppose you mean criticism), and a president, as the person at the top of the pile, most of all. That is the wonder and beauty of our open society.
Furthermore, how a person in power responds to criticism is one aspect of how we judge them as statesmen and -women. Do you consider how Trump responds to criticism as impressive or admirable?
Please remember - Trump is president to / for / of all of us, also those who did not vote for him or do not like him or his policies. Some statesmen in his position have been able to create a sense of solidarity - to reach out - to help forge unity and encourage respect for each other.
Trump and his supporters - like you - see in his position instead an eternal fight against his enemies. This is not a good thing for our country.
The love fest the other day rivaled a Kim Jung Un worship service.
Apparently, you slept through the Obama Administration.
@Matthew Sablan "Well, it was a big f'ing deal."
Celebrating victory in cabinet is one thing. I would expect it.
But the "going around the table, giving public thanks to Trump"? Come on, man! That is very weird, and very very very un-American. I have never heard of that before or seen anything like it. It is gruesome.
They used to pass out Mont Blancs that retail for $250. Maybe government procures at a discount...
Heh.
“Well, I just had a nice shot of 12-year old Scotch from one of the junior colleagues here, as we brake for the office Christmas party. At said party, I intend to drink copious amounts of alcohol, sing the praises of our President with other like-minded sycophants, and grab an ass or two, claiming mere inadvertence, mistake or drunkenness.”
Merry Christmas and have a great time, but be careful about grabbing those asses. Excuses of drunkenness may not fly in this new era.
"Blogger Inga said..."As long as he is surrounded by his sycophants he’s happy...and gracious. The love fest the other day rivaled a Kim Jung Un worship service."
Yes, I watched MSNBC last night, too. Their lack of self awareness is stunning.
On the bar there are the regular bar accoutrements: clear plastic paper napkin holder, black plastic holder of straws, stacks of coasters, a few rubber mats for the bartender to set down drinks. Maybe the clear and black plastic holders are different in the fancier bars; maybe they are ceramic, or glass, or just plastic with a marble pattern. I don't know: I don't often frequent fancy bars. I don't like my drinks to have what amounts to an eight-dollar ambiance charge.
Down at one end of the bar is a black plastic holder of straws, but instead of straws it holds a collection of cheap grey plastic ballpoint pens. Sometimes one is used for a crossword puzzle; a surprising number of people at the bar do crossword puzzles on a regular basis. But the main purpose of the cheap grey plastic ballpoint pens is to write down a name and phone number.
Sure, it is the era of the cell phone, but still people write down numbers, often on a paper cocktail napkin. You could enter the number and name directly into your phone, but that has a different connotation, I think; it implies this will be a number you will return to regularly in the future. And a lot of numbers and names given out late at night in bars are meant to be forgotten, eventually.
There is still magic in the name and phone number on a paper cocktail napkin. The unique scrawl of a person's own hand, to begin. Written large, written small. Flourishes. Parallel to the napkin edges, diagonal, skewed, unsteady. Possibly illegible: is that a 3 or an 8. For instance.
Of course, there is the art to writing on a paper cocktail napkin with a cheap grey plastic ballpoint pen. Some of the pens start dry; some stay dry. This, of course, tears the paper. Some of the pens blob and glob and pool, which probably means smearing and a streak of blue ink on the side of your writing hand that you don't notice until the morning.
Sometimes the numbers are called; sometimes not. Sometimes the phone is answered, sometimes it goes to voicemail. Sometimes it is a wrong number because of illegibility; sometimes it is wrong number because it was fake to begin. The paper cocktail napkin and the cheap grey plastic ballpoint pen have a mystery to them that you are not going to find in, say, a text. It can remind you of the preson in a way that numbers on a screen cannot do.
But the college girls; they usually enter the number and name into their phones. They will not have a drawer in a desk that has a dozen napkins from the last year, each with a hazy memory. The numbers will be clear and bright for them, even if they no longer remember who the person is.
- james james
a kinder and gentler Donald Trump that more of America needs to see
Yes, and I put the burden of that on "more of America" rather than on Mr. Trump.
I’m excited. We need to set dividends for the next year, and the much lowered corporate rates are going to be very nice. More importantly though, it is now going to be financially attractive to sell off some lower performing assets. We have stuff that is fully depreciated and has minimal basis, that we couldn’t afford to sell, up until now, with the various levels of govt taking 45% or so of any increase in value over the years, even if the increase were due to inflation.
@Jim "Apparently, you slept through the Obama Administration."
I honestly don't remember anything like this, really I don't. Did Obama's cabinet ever partake of this kind of public weirdness, going around the table like that, singing his praises, like what happens in a tin-pot dictatorship.
I absolutely promise to apologise openly if I am wrong and it did happen like that with Obama.
I don't like Trump's politics, I admit. I don't like the actual policies. And that sets me at odds with most commenters here, who of course have different views about the best way forward for this country.
But setting the substance of his presidency aside, I really don't like the "look and feel" of it, if you know what I mean. And I continue to be shocked (not kidding, not exaggerating, I am really shocked) that so many of you do, because the things I don't like about it are because it's too peculiar and not conservative enough! I like presidents to have a bit of gravitas, to make me feel that they keep things on an even keel, do you know what I mean? The tweeting, for example: it is so childish and strange to me. When he tweeted the other day about Gillibrand, there was a discussion here about her and him and sexual harassment etc etc. What did he mean? Was he slut-shaming? But what I hated was the *tone* of the whole tweet. That this is the standard now for the presidency! And I cannot get over that most people here are such fans of his that they would excuse or even praise this behaviour, when I *know* - and you know - and every single person here knows - that if a Democratic president behaved for just one moment like this, you guys would have been horrified. And rightly so.
Trump and his supporters - like you - see in his position instead an eternal fight against his enemies. This is not a good thing for our country.
After Obama spent eight years demonizing his political enemies, that sort of statement coming from Democrats looks a lot like hypocrisy. Tell you what... you can think of this as punishment for Obama and we'll revisit the question under the next Democrat.
If he signed it this year it ought to apply this year. Big standard deduction.
“I heard he didn’t take it too well when those 6 polls came out showing a huge wave for Democrats in November. Ah well, that’s politics.”
With the Russia! pacifier chewed to pieces, I’m guessing this will be the Golden Shower Left’s solace for the next 11 months. After that is proven to be a broken reed I can’t even imagine what kind of crazy shit they’ll move on to.
I heard he didn’t take it too well when those 6 polls came out showing a huge wave for Democrats in November. Ah well, that’s politics.
Enjoy it now, as it will evaporate before November rolls around.
Kitty M
FYI, the "big fucking deal" is what Joe Biden said to Obama after the ACA was signed and after the Democrats paraded their triumph.
And there has never been a more prickly president when it came to criticism than BHO.
@ Bob Loblaw "After Obama spent eight years demonizing his political enemies, that sort of statement coming from Democrats looks a lot like hypocrisy. Tell you what... you can think of this as punishment for Obama and we'll revisit the question under the next Democrat."
First of all, I absolutely love your username!
Secondly, I understand your point. I really do. But is there *any* way we can get past it and discuss Trump's behaviour *on its own merits*? In these comments, I almost never get a straight answer to a question because I receive instead a version of this: the "but what about... (some horrible things Democrats did / do)?"
And honestly there are many things the Democrats have done that I disapprove of; many things about Obama of which I was / am critical. But can we stay focussed for just a few comments on my question?
(PS My criticism of Obama amongst other things was that he wasted too much time trying to reach out to Republicans who absolutely refused to work with him. So even on its basis, I would disagree with you...but again, would much rather talk about Trump because Obama is our past - for good or bad - and Trump is our present and our future)
“ - and every single person here knows - that if a Democratic president behaved for just one moment like this, you guys would have been horrified.”
One did. WJC. And Democrats couldn’t have cared less. You won. Don’t cry about it now.
"So glad he decided to sign today! Corey Lewandowski said on FBN the other day that Trump would not sign until early January! Of course, I fired off an email to the President urging him to please sign it before Christmas. Apparently, I wasn't the only one. ;-)"
They had to get the spending bill extended first before Trump could sign the bill, otherwise some bad stuff would have been triggered due to the signing of the tax cut bill before the new year.
@Michael "And there has never been a more prickly president when it came to criticism than BHO."
Really? I didn't know that. I am amazed that you could look at Trump and Obama and then decide that Obama was the person who had more of a problem with criticism. That's seems seriously delusional to me.
But you have misunderstood me a bit, I think. I am referring very specifically to the "going around the table, giving praise" thing that happened.
@The Cracker Emcee Activist "One did. WJC."
And you guys said - Oh we are so much better than you! We are the party of Christian values!
Just not getting tired of the winning.
- Krumhorn
Kitty M
Here is a straight answer. Trump is crude. Got that part? Good. He is also disinclined to pretty talk even though he is capable of providing it. He says things you do not like in a way that you do not like and the way he says these things make him a bad-think in your eyes and those who are anti-Trump. He seems not to care what you think about his presentation but is more interested in getting things done, things you do not want to see done. Got that part? Good. But back to the many parts you don't like. 1. He is crude. 2. Her has stupid looking hair. 3. He is not a pretty talking politician . 4. He is not a politician . 5. He said many Mexicans crossing the border illegally brought with them bad habits which you took to be a "racist" comment forgetting that Mexicans are not a race, Hispanics are not a race. 6. He acknowledges that the tyranny of terrorism is brought to us 99.9% of the time by Islamists. This blunt, even crude, thinking is an affront to you. 7. He does not "look" or "act" like what you want a president to look or act like because I suspect you are disinterested in results and are more interested in appearance.
So. no other president in my long life has been as goofy looking, as crude, as rude, as loud, as poorly dressed, as frequently married, as crude, as un-polished, as our current president.
And you are full of shit if you think Obama "reached out too much to Republicans. He of "elections have consequences"
“And you guys said - Oh we are so much better than you! We are the party of Christian values!”
Didn’t hear a single person say that. I did hear several suggest the wacky idea that no one should be above the rule of law. Naturally, Democrats thought that was an outlandish idea. So, as I said, you won and the rules have changed. Enjoy! But for God’s sake don’t bother peddling the faux-disingenuous have-you-no-decency schtick. It is beyond tired.
Trump and his supporters - like you - see in his position instead an eternal fight against his enemies. This is not a good thing for our country.
His enemies -- like you -- are mean, vicious, underhanded creatures who do not give a damn about the well-being of ordinary Americans and who fight everything Trump does regardless of whether it benefits people. This is not a good thing for our country.
And a lot of numbers and names given out late at night in bars are meant to be forgotten, eventually.
More like 'immediately', I should think.
KittyM said...
But is there *any* way we can get past it and discuss Trump's behaviour *on its own merits*?
I'll answer. I don't like Trump's behavior on its merits. I would not like to hang out with him socially. I would prefer a president who has proper manners, decorum, etiquette, etc, in addition to having correct policies, correct judicial nominations, the ability to get those policies enacted, and, of course, the ability to win elections.
I'd even be willing to trade away the fine details of policy, nominations, etc., in exchange for a man of good character, except for one tiny little detail...
You and your allies on the left have spent the past fifty years cramming unqualified* judges down our throats and big government up our asses 24/7/365.2422. If your side was willing to limit the federal government to its constitutional role, bound by its constitutional limits, it would matter a whole lot less who was president.
That is how you got Trump. That is how you will get more Trump.
*By unqualified I mean unable or unwilling to follow the Constitution as it is written, rather than as they wish it to be.
Really? I didn't know that. I am amazed that you could look at Trump and Obama and then decide that Obama was the person who had more of a problem with criticism. That's seems seriously delusional to me.
Trump has yet to publicly flip the bird as his opponents, as Obama did to Hillary and to the GOP during his first term. The biggest problem with Obama is the soft bigotry of low expectations for a black president.
Did that great Tribune of the People, Barack H. Obama, ever hand out signing pens to plebeians?
“And you guys said - Oh we are so much better than you! We are the party of Christian values!”
Didn’t hear a single person say that. I did hear several suggest the wacky idea that no one should be above the rule of law. Naturally, Democrats thought that was an outlandish idea. So, as I said, you won and the rules have changed. Enjoy! But for God’s sake don’t bother peddling the faux-disingenuous have-you-no-decency schtick. It is beyond tired.
Me, either, Cracker. Far from it. It's the sanctimonious Progs who think they have a monopoly on virtue.
Really? I didn't know that. I am amazed that you could look at Trump and Obama and then decide that Obama was the person who had more of a problem with criticism. That's seems seriously delusional to me.
Why are all of his college papers and records still secret?
How many deigned to criticize him, he had a press corps mote fit for a royal court.
It is a humorous sight to see the nevertrumpers at NRO and the Weekly Standard besides themselves now. But even they are having to admit this is the most significant change to tax policy since St.Reagan and they are still regrouping for the next "yeah, but..." attack.
Secondly, I understand your point. I really do. But is there *any* way we can get past it and discuss Trump's behaviour *on its own merits*?
He's crude and he's a boor. So what? Lots of people are. The only part of trump's behavior that matters is that he fights back.
My criticism of Obama amongst other things was that he wasted too much time trying to reach out to Republicans who absolutely refused to work with him.
Are you fucking kidding? When? When he rammed Obamacare down the country's throat using parliamentary trickery so he wouldn't even have to tell the republicans what was in the bill before he signed it? When he signed all those executive orders in order to bypass Congress?
Oh Lordie Kitty! You’ve triggered them for sure. They won’t stop ranting about you for hours, lol.
I heard he didn’t take it too well when those 6 polls came out showing a huge wave for Democrats in November. Ah well, that’s politics
From who?
KittyM: "And you guys said - Oh we are so much better than you! We are the party of Christian values!"
Sure we did.
Keep running with that.
Obama took the Democrat nomination and proclaimed that he was a Divine Being, able to heal the world and at his command the oceans would recede. That's King Canute level insanity.
He was nominated in a Greek Temple to the Gods.
Kids were singing hymns to Obama, KittyM. "Mmm, MMM, MMM." The press called Obama the LightWorker and for about a year every picture of Obama had him with haloes and other angelic symbolism.
Democrats literally were putting up shrines to Obama, like the Asians do to their dead ancestors. Candles, incense, picture of Obama.... the whole nine yards.
And how dare anyone criticize the LightWorker! It was per se racist to disagree with Obama on anything--even his basketball bracket!
And you have a problem with some people congratulating Trump on an actual accomplishment?
--Vance
Oh, and Inga's here, the one who so despises Republicans she would rather be waterboarded than say that Republicans should not be murdered on sight.
--Vance
Inga: "As long as he is surrounded by his sycophants he’s happy."
Remember how Hillary did not allow people in hallways to make eye contact with her?
Good times, good times.
LOL
I wonder when Inga will be joining her p****-hat pals at the NYT protest to complain about an admitted sexual assaulter being brought back in by the lefty Times?
Oh, that's right. There won't be any protests.
KittyM: "I honestly don't remember anything like this, really I don't"
LOL
It's not your fault.
History began anew just this morning. Just. This. Morning.
As it always does for those on the left.
My criticism of Obama amongst other things was that he wasted too much time trying to reach out to Republicans who absolutely refused to work with him
LOL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25HN1kZtRIw
“I heard he didn’t take it too well when those 6 polls came out showing a huge wave for Democrats in November. Ah well, that’s politics.”
“From who?”
Here you go Gahrie.
The key to this Tax cut is his comment on 100% first year Expensing of capital improvements, as
Trump mentioned . That will start thousands of new factories in the Midwest that China and investors stole from us 20 years ago.The tax savings for working voters is a small thing in comparison to the coming boom
Of this energy dominant super power that has risen
,Like Atlanta did ,after the Civil War like a Phoenix from the fires of destruction.
I can't wait until republicans debate this "generic" democrat.
I hear he/she/xe/xer is the most intelligent/brilliant/insightful thinker/orator/philosopher Doctor/Engineer/Astronaut half-human/half-cyborg I've ever met!
traditionalguy: "The key to this Tax cut is his comment on 100% first year Expensing of capital improvements, as Trump mentioned . That will start thousands of new factories in the Midwest that China and investors stole from us 20 years ago."
This is already happening, and happening in the most critical swing states.
So the "deplorables" in those states, instead of just shutting up and dying as the democrats have been demanding, will instead find additional business opportunities and jobs instead.
I wonder which side I would go with? The side that calls me a deplorable nazi racist who is infected with toxic whiteness that should die off quickly so America can realize its true vision, or the side that says I'm good people who need someone to care about them and their families and their jobs and their communities.
Gee, that's a real tough call.
Real tough.
Sorry he was gracious to the awful MSM.
I liked his other comment about prayer better:
"You can stay if you want, because you need the prayer more than I do, I think. You may be the only ones," Trump said, inviting reporters in the room to stay for a prayer by Secretary Ben Carson.
"Maybe a good solid prayer and they'll be honest, Ben," Trump said at the White House. "Is that possible?"
Comedy Gold.
I hope that Althouse at some point covers the Obama/Hezbollah story. I'm sure the leftists here haven't heard about this one yet.
Turns out that Hezbollah, the "Let's kill as many Jews as possible" group in Palestine, started running drugs into the US at some point to make money. They were a drug ring, in other words. Hezbollah is close friends and a proxy of Iran.
So the FBI started investigating them, and trying to round up the ring. The Obama administration interfered so badly that eventually the FBI dropped it. This, it has been revealed, was purposeful on the part of Obama so that "Drugs" and "Iran" wouldn't become a thing, derailing Obama's giveaway of hundreds of billions of US dollars to Iran for nothing.
In short, Obama protected Iran's drug running operations to fund their terrorism and their killing of Jews.
The media response? Crickets, naturally. Nothing a leftist loves more than dead Jews and rich Muslim terrorists. At least, that's the evidence of the last thirty years.
Right Inga?
--Vance
I mean, I don't expect the Kitty's or the Inga's of the world to concern themselves much with those in rural communities throughout the midwest and the south. I mean, those people aren't converting to islam, sexually enslaving women and girls, burning gays alive in cages and throwing them off roofs, so I don't expect democrats to care about them.
But you would think that at some point Inga might think about at least fake caring about them as much as she does importing these islamists.
Alas, it is not to be.
I read some of the Nov. 2016 Election thread this afternoon. I was already in an excellent mood (I figured out this morning that the tax cut will benefit me quite nicely, thank you President Trump), but reading that thread cheered me up even more.
Early on that evening, when Inga was sure The Crone would win, she wrote:
"Don't be grumpy conservatives, it will all be OK, lay back and enjoy it."
11/8/16, 7:17 PM
Haha! A joke Louis CK would have loved! But that was before The Reckoning and now Inga is all woke and very, very concerned about sexual assault.
"My criticism of Obama amongst other things was that he wasted too much time trying to reach out to Republicans who absolutely refused to work with him"
Mr. "I Won?"
Vance: "Turns out that Hezbollah, the "Let's kill as many Jews as possible" group in Palestine, started running drugs into the US at some point to make money. They were a drug ring, in other words."
Actually, Hezbollah was partnered up the Zeta's and were combining operations to run drugs into the US and then using the cash to fund terrorist operations.
The DEA and other law enforcement agencies were on to these "cats" but obambi shut them down because he was not going to let anything interfere with transferring billions to Hezbollah's masters in Iran and allowing Iran to accelerate its nuke program.
But hey, Trump might have tweeted something that someone didn't like, so lets chat about that.
"Don't be grumpy conservatives, it will all be OK, lay back and enjoy it."
11/8/16, 7:17 PM
Not only was she wrong but she should have said, "lie back.
exiled: "Haha! A joke Louis CK would have loved! But that was before The Reckoning and now Inga is all woke and very, very concerned about sexual assault."
Indeed.
It's okay Inga. Perhaps you should just "put some ice on that", if you know what I mean....
Inga have you considered the polls and your predictions as of Dec. 2017 might be every bit accurate as your predictions made on say, November 8, 2016 at 7:17 pm were?
And of course, this week we had Mr Simpson of Fusion GPS in London telling a court that he really couldn't verify much of the fake dossier and we had McCabe here saying he couldn't verify anything other than Carter Page had traveled to Moscow.
And you just know the fake dossier was used for the FISA warrants.
Just as we have been saying since earlier this year.
Naturally.
I think its fairly clear at this point that "The Republicans have no path to victory in 2018....the Polls "prove it"'........
LOL
My criticism of Obama amongst other things was that he wasted too much time trying to reach out to Republicans who absolutely refused to work with him.
Wow. Just, wow.
I won. Sit in the back. Punch back twice as hard. Get in their faces.
Yep. That's some serious outreach. How dare those Republicans refuse to work with such a nice guy.
Poor Al Franken.
He has to watch Trump signing this bill today, clearing out his office even as the fake Woke pals of Inga are contriving to bring all their sexual assaulters back onto the field!
I wonder which other hollywood predators Meryl Streep wants to give a standing ovation to as well as remaining silent in a very "complicit-y" sort of way?
"And of course, this week we had Mr Simpson of Fusion GPS in London telling a court that he really couldn't verify much of the fake dossier and we had McCabe here saying he couldn't verify anything other than Carter Page had traveled to Moscow.
And you just know the fake dossier was used for the FISA warrants."
Mueller's closing in!
Jim at: "Yep. That's some serious outreach. How dare those Republicans refuse to work with such a nice guy."
You know, what's funny is that if obambi wanted to, and he would have been smart to do it, he could easily have had a couple of republicans jump on board of obamacare by just throwing a couple of things their way, the way the dems in Massachusetts (with their bullet proof veto proof majority in the state house) did with Romney.
Then it would have been a "bi-partisan" bill.
The establishment republicans were desperate to get something out of the deal. They just weren't so desperate to accept getting nothing and then also kicked in the teeth and still voting for it.
"Regrets....He probably has a few...but then again, it's too racist to mention...."
So let's count the ways Obama loves Americans. 1) He arranged to ship loads of automatic weapons to Mexican drug gangs and invited them to come massacre Americans in hopes to strip Americans of their right to self defense. 2) He smuggled weapons to Turkey (the reason the Libyan Ambassador was in a city when he got killed in the first place) 3) He openly started murdering American Citizens without trial by using drone attacks on them; 4) Protecting and Promoting ISIS and allowing them to grow into a huge threat; 5) and his enabling of Iranian terror and apparently drug running.
Why does the left worship this guy again? Maybe because they hate America too?
--Vance
I'm not predicting a damn thing about the 2018 elections.
You'd think that some people, particularly those who have already been humiliated because they began gloating prematurely at 7:17 pm on November 8, 2016, would have learned a bit of humility and caution before making pronouncements on what their crystal ball tells them today.
But humility and caution are beyond the ken of some people. Hell, learning is beyond them.
Why does the left worship this guy again? Maybe because they hate America too?
How can you read the comments of Inga, KittyM, and Vicki in Pasadena and not perceive an affirmative answer to your second question?
Well, I wanted to do this on a Café thread, but I will be leaving shortly and probably won't get back here until after the holidays, so -
Merry Christmas to all and thanks to Althouse and Meade!
I will be enjoying Christmas very much this year!
@exiledonmainstreet, Merry Christmas to you, too.
Merry Christmas to you Exiledonmainstreet!
@KittyM Nobody much liked George Patton, but he got the job done. See any parallels?
"So let's count the ways Obama loves Americans."
You forgot that obambi attacked the press by siccing the DOJ/FBI (sound familiar) on James Rosen AND his family and accusing him of violating espionage laws simply for doing his normal reporter type job.
And the lefties by and large said.......nothing.
Weaponizing the apparatus of state security to go directly after a report and his family for daring to report things obama didn't like.
I guess Inga and her pals weren't so "woke" about attacking the press then.
Given her "performance" to date, I'm going to guess KittyM has never even heard of that!
@Exiled Good for you for making the effort to find the words that should make Inga choke. Well done! It really is true that nothing disappears from the internet.
Merry Christmas to you as well. We will look forward to your return.
Merry Christmas. Hillary the great money grubbing liar is not president.
Hallelujah!
Thanks Inga for the link. Those are definitely polls showing a coming Democratic wave.
But I wonder if Gahrie's question wasn't about who told you that the President isn't taking the news well...
Michael: "But I wonder if Gahrie's question wasn't about who told you that the President isn't taking the news well..."
Inga, along with LLR Chuck, are a couple of the most accomplished mind-readers you could ever come across.
They know what everyone is thinking and this gives them extraordinary insight to what is actually going on.
Given how often they are wrong in their public predictions and analysis, one can only surmise that they are playing possum and are working hard to keep their hidden talents secret from our government agencies.
KittyM said: "Please remember - Trump is president to / for / of all of us, also those who did not vote for him or do not like him or his policies. Some statesmen in his position have been able to create a sense of solidarity - to reach out - to help forge unity and encourage respect for each other."
But many, many people have declared repeatedly "Not my president!" I even have a friend that said she would accept nothing short of having the man removed from office, by any means necessary, even if it required an assassin to do the job. This was before he spent a single day on the job. I'm not sure he should even pretend to play nice with these people.
Those are definitely polls showing a coming Democratic wave.
Except that presumably the new tax bill, the end of net neutrality, and the repeal of the individual mandate will kill all the democrats, buried under great chunks of fallen sky. Just ask Pelosi.
Exiled: Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you, too! And to everyone else here. God bless us every one.
Oh, my gosh! I am loving Kitty M !. School marm is perfect, I really mean it, honest I do!
Makes me want to smoke weed and watch Little House on the Prairie.
No kidding, long dress, bifocals, sensible shoes, hair bun with pencil through it. "Kitty", you are great! (I think you let it slip once back a week or so ago but I am too in awe to prove it)
Trump is a New Yorker. Not one of those prettified New Yorkers from the Upper East or West Side (neither go beyond 105th streets). He worked in Real Estate; he's tough; get's to the deal; but, most of all, he knows how to TIP. This is THE lesson my forebears instilled in me: you want service; you want to be remembered for good; you tip and you tip well. Fifteen percent is the MINIMUM. Twenty percent is the ticket.
My grandmother lived on the twentieth floor off Washington Square for ages in a rent controlled apartment. Delivery people would fight to get to bring something to Rebecca Hourwich's apartment? Why? Because she kept this HUGE silver bowl next to the door filled with small change. When the doorbell would ring, and the Post, UPS, Bagel shop people would arrive, she would reaching into that bowl and take out a fistful of coin. Hell, I'd even fight to get a fistful of that bowl (Say, gran-ma, let me run to the bagel shop for you; sure Danny, he's the money and be sure to take a fistful for yourself and your little brother Tommy)
The only people who do not tip in New York are Intellectuals. They NEVER tip. They live on entitlements--like scholarships, fellowships, or salaries at real cool places like the Met or MOMA or NYU or NYT. Tipping is beneath their dignity, they say. It's included in the price, they lie.
Trump understands the working stiff in ways we, as a nation, have not seen in my lifetime, as short as it is.
Good on you, Donnie. Give out those pens to the people who need them the most--the people who make the show happen: the Crew. Besides their bosses and betters don't know one end from the other of "The Fuck Stick" [you can whip a [person's] ass so bad they will thank you for it.
It's like Churchill's Vee sign.
I heard he didn’t take it too well when those 6 polls came out showing a huge wave for Democrats in November. Ah well, that’s politics.
How about we meet again next November and compare notes?
The Democrats are frantic to convince voters that they will get nothing from the tax cut.
By February, this will be seen to be the fiction/lie it is and then we will try polling again.
Kitty has memory issues. Sometimes eating fish will be good for memory.
FullMoon
Exactly. Utterly cloying to boot.
The only people who do not tip in New York are Intellectuals. They NEVER tip.
Thanks for a great comment.
The book by Bossie and Lewandowski is great. It tells a lot about what Trump is like personally.
I was watching the AF One take off today and wondered what has happened to Trump's pilots for his own plane.
They are probably on salary until 2024. They have worked for him since the 1980s.
Guildofcannonballs said...
FROM UNIVERSAL PRESS SYNDICATE
FOR RELEASE : THURSDAY, APRIL 24, 1986
ON THE RIGHT by William F . Buckley Jr .
UNDERSTANDING REAGAN
When Henry Kissinger went down to Washington last
week to address a meeting of academicians at what he thought
was a closed meeting, he spoke of Ronald Reagan and his
administration in terms he would not have used addressing a
Republican rally. But if you listened carefully to everything
Kissinger said, and weighed it comprehensively, you would
find him much more shocking to academicians than to Reaganite
loyalists.
Of Ronald Reagan Kissinger said that, just to clear
the air, he was in no way "indebted" to Reagan -- in the
sense, let us say, that Henry Kissinger would be bound to
acknowledge being indebted to Richard Nixon. He went on:
Moreover, if you meet Reagan and talk with him briefly, you
wonder how he managed to be elected governor of California,
let alone president of the United States.
One can hear the academic audience purring at this
point; but it did not anticipate what was to come.
I wonder if Obama's Nobel will be on display at his Chicago shrine.
It's like Churchill's Vee sign.
Churchill didn't care if he ruffled feathers, either.
Exactly. Utterly cloying to boot.
In control of "her" character. Credit where credit is due. Cannot imagine "her" freaking out like ARM, Chuck, Toothless or Inga has done.
Briefly considered Kitty was Laslo (etc) but his characters generally stay out of politics.
Chuckles:
Trump repeatedly promised during the campaign that he would not cut Medicare, Medicaid or Social Security. Again, and again, he made those promises. Under this tax bill, will Trump keep those promises? The tax bill has already triggered Pay-Go concerns that might require reductions in funding to Medicare right away:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/12/why-trump-wont-be-signing-his-tax-cuts-right-away/548906/
Whe the hell is Trump really going to sign the bill?
"Michael in ArchDen said...
Thanks Inga for the link. Those are definitely polls showing a coming Democratic wave.
But I wonder if Gahrie's question wasn't about who told you that the President isn't taking the news well..."
No need to wonder, of course that's what he was asking. I know it. You know it. Everyone but our resident dullard knows it. Dumb as box of rocks.
mockturtle: "Churchill didn't care if he ruffled feathers, either."
The left hates Churchill as well.
They probably call him a Nazi too....not realizing the irony.
"he offered the souvenirs to the news camera men and microphone boom holders"
Pretty cool.
dailycaller.com/2017/12/21/former-govt-officials-warned-about-hezbollah-story-months-ago
"The left hates Churchill as well."
Churchill, like Trump, was widely hated by his party. Read "Five Days in London; May 1940."
He was seen by many Tories as a libertine and lightweight.
"Oh, my gosh! I am loving Kitty M !. School marm is perfect, I really mean it, honest I do! Makes me want to smoke weed and watch Little House on the Prairie."
You must be new to the internet.
"Kitty M" is a Gay Guy living in Nowhere Nebraska.
You can see his type a mile away.
Ignorance is bliss says: I don't like Trump's behavior on its merits. I would not like to hang out with him socially. I would prefer a president who has proper manners, decorum, etiquette, etc,
So...when you hire a plumber to unclog the shit in your toilet that is backing up into your bathtub, do you want the one that knows how to do the job, clear the shit and clean up the mess, even though he is gonna drop some F bombs while doing it.
.....or are you more concerned with whether he holds his pinkie up in the air when drinking tea, he holds doors open for little old ladies, sends thank you cards for Christmas gifts?
I know which one I want to take care of the plumbing problem and the rest of that happy horseshit can take a back seat to fixing the problem.
You must be new to the internet.
"Kitty M" is a Gay Guy living in Nowhere Nebraska.
You can see his type a mile away.
No way. Kitty is Miss Beadle, only older. I am sure of it.
Merry Christmas!
PROFESSOR, YOUR TROLLS PROVIDE MUCH NEEDED COMIC RELIEF IN THE FACE ALL THE TROUBLES OF THIS WORLD. THEIR SELF SACRIFICE IS COMMENDABLE. AS FOR DONALD vs HIS OPPONENTS, NO POLITICIAN HAS BEEN SO INSULTED AND DISRESPECTED IN THE HISTORY OF OUR COUNTRY. PERHAPS HE SHOULD SIMPLY FLIP THEM THE ALL FINGER JUST LIKE OBAMA. MOST DELICIOUS IS THE FACT THAT THE MEDIA VIRTUALLY ANOINTED HIS CANDIDACY. TRUMP IS STILL STANDING THERE PROUD AND ACCOMPLISHED.
Merry Christmas and continued health to you and yours.
a giant gave
The violent innuendo of Pelosi, a Pro-Choice/abortionist, wielding an oversized mallet to beat people over the head was unmistakable. And then Democrats passed the unPlanned/born-alive penalty act.
Progs who think they have a monopoly on virtue.
Deny individual dignity. Deny lives deemed unworthy, inconvenient, or profitable. Deny equality and celebrate a transgender judge forcing political congruence ("=") or selective exclusion over the democratic and Democrat will. Establish monopolies and practices to sustain progressive costs and redistributive change. One wicked and bad solution after another.
Trump is Reagan in a clown suit. He has picked excellent judges and gotten dozens confirmed, got through a tax cut in spite of GOP opposition, has done some bang-up overseas diplomacy, and has rolled back all kinds of insane regulations (from Clean Coal to Paris treaty to NLRB rules). And yet he has the appearance of a buffoon. This prevents the media from grasping how savvy he is and what he is about.
"After Obama spent eight years demonizing his political enemies...."
Really!? I thought he went out of his way to try to appease them.
I thought he went out of his way to try to appease them.
He appeased the enemies of the United states. not his enemies. Those he demonized.
Which is not to say Obama wasn't a narcissist. He was! But he was a milquetoast narcissist...who carried on the affairs of state pretty much as Bush had done...killing people.
"Robert Cook said...
"After Obama spent eight years demonizing his political enemies...."
Really!? I thought he went out of his way to try to appease them."
Really? Name a few examples.
You have to remember that many leftists think that the Democrat party and Obama were right wingers, because they didn't come out and demand instant communism and arresting anyone to the right of Mao and sending them to the camps to die. If you don't support that, you aren't a "True leftist" and must be an evil Reichwinger.
Cook sometimes falls into that category of leftist; so to him Obama was really a conservative and so was Hillary. I think they literally believe Reagan was Satan Himself, if Satan exists. I'm honestly not sure what they think of the John Birch society, since I'm pretty sure they literally cannot conceive of anyone not wanting all powerful government run by leftists--utopia, right?
--Vance
That he accepted the insults of his political enemies without responding with vitriol was appeasement. That he didn't stop and call out Representative Wilson for shouting out "liar" at him during the SOTU speech was appeasement. (Of course, Obama was a liar, and a war criminal...as were his predecessors and as is his successor...that's what our empire demands...someone willing to lie and kill to meet the empire's agenda. I had no more admiration for Obama than I have for Trump.)
That he refused to take advantage of the nation's desire for change that swept him into office and governed as if Bush were still in office was appeasement. But then...Obama gave clear signs before he was even elected the first time that he wouldn't be or do what his believers wanted him to be or do...he gave clear sign he would play ball and do what the elites who run our country wanted him to do.
Inga cites fivethirtyeight.com Congressional poll in favor of the Dems.
Inga, how about this fivethirtyeight.com poll?
Do you have a lot of confidence in fivethirtyeight.com?
"Cook sometimes falls into that category of leftist; so to him Obama was really a conservative and so was Hillary."
Obama was a middle-of-the-road guy. He would have fit in as a "liberal Republican" back in the day where were there many of those in the party. Hillary was always a Goldwater Girl at heart, even when she took on the facade of being something else. She never seemed like a real human being, though. I think her insatiable ambition ate her soul.
That he refused to take advantage of the nation's desire for change that swept him into office and governed as if Bush were still in office was appeasement.
I see at least four examples of utter delusion in the above. Cookie, I hate to break it to you, but Barack Obama changed a lot of things, and uniformly in the direction of your favorite theories. But nothing worked, because the theories don't work in the real world.
"That he refused to take advantage of the nation's desire for change that swept him into office and governed as if Bush were still in office was appeasement."
Obama 53%, McCain 46%.
"Swept into office"
"But nothing worked, because the theories don't work in the real world."
Cook just needs new, more progressive voters!
"We need only eliminate those who oppose us."
-Saruman
Cookie wants the US to emulate Venezuela.
Trump is Reagan in a clown suit.
I'm struggling to find the phrase that describes a New York City version of "country dumb."
I hope that tomorrow Althouse blogs about the absolute disgrace of the Cliven Bundy trial and mistrial. What an awful story!
The pro prosecution Judge, a liberal Democrat, who was totally on the side of those trying to jail the entire Bundy family, had to declare a mistrial after the prosecution got caught suppressing and destroying evidence that favored the defense.
The government had to admit that indeed they had sent snipers hunting around the Bundy's place; they had put him under full time video surveillance and in fact the government was trying to provoke him to attack them. And the Prosecutor knew all this and hid it.
Just like John Doe, another example of what the left wants "justice" to be like in America. Thank Heavens for Trump and not letting Hillary do this to everyone.
--Vance
But then - then - (I have this from at least 20 different WH insiders who are considered extremely reliable resources by the NYT), Trump grabbed them all in the crotch to distract them and shot their children. The bodies of the innocents were buried in what was once Michelle Obama's arugula patch. More desecration.
Watch for it in tomorrow's NYT - you read it here first!!!
Yes that case just as the one in Oregon, that was an acquittal as well. Meanwhile ali fayyad escapes extradition because he was tied to victor bout as well as hezbollah
The Bundy mess needs to be split up into separate trials.
His quarrel with the BLM is one thing. Every rancher and farmer in the country with a BLM grazing permit want to WTF was going on here. It was not bribery, since he just refused to pay and up yours! for decades. That office of the BLM needs to be cleaned out pronto!
The stand-off with with the SWAT teams of the various agencies that were called in to move him off his permit land by Harry Reid & Sons, LLP is another thing.
And how it was done too. Why and how did all these agencies become so militarized?
Bundy was in the wrong here too, but again, exactly WTF was going on?
And why, how, who, etc., etc., and how much big money was at stake by who?
I may have mentioned the work of Charles mccarry ex cia??operative turned novelist. In one prescient tale in 1979 better angels set inn the year 2000, he imagined a rabid press Corps that have no quarter to a populist conservative fmr businessman turned president Franklyn Mallory, at this time he has running to reclaim his office from the liberal incumbent who made a hash in dealing with a terrorist based out of a gulfstate whose subjects implant explosives and take down airplanes this is before Hezbollah and a queda. Despite his imconpetemce a deep state faction endeavors to use it's resources to reflect their guu
" I really don't like the "look and feel" of it, if you know what I mean. And I continue to be shocked (not kidding, not exaggerating, I am really shocked) that so many of you do, because the things I don't like about it are because it's too peculiar and not conservative enough! I like presidents to have a bit of gravitas, to make me feel that they keep things on an even keel, do you know what I mean? The tweeting, for example: it is so childish and strange to me."
Trump's behavior is designed to alienate the clique. People who care deeply about how things look (ruled by the in-group's notions on such matters) are not supposed to like it.
I am reminded of the essay written by the in-group guy about how he had to take an out-group (or is that not-in-group?) person for lunch, and this person didn't know how to order the right kind of sandwich. And that's a really big deal in the in-group world.
Trump's two scoops of ice cream matters more than whether some dumb hicks who don't know how to order a sandwich are happy or broke, have a good life or have broken families, communities, and lives - whether they live or die.
And that is why Trump tweets: to disrupt this status quo; it is not working well enough for the sorts of people who voted for Trump. Of course people who are all about sandwiches can't understand why.
And yet he has the appearance of a buffoon. This prevents the media from grasping how savvy he is and what he is about.
I think this is an interesting observation.
We just got back from dinner with my son and his family. His wife runs a very successful marketing business from home and she was talking tonight about how rare it is to find a CEO who knows what the business is about.
She deals with various companies and does the marketing for them.
She is also a Trump supporter and we were talking about why this is the case. He has run huge international businesses and politicians who could not find the men's room without detailed, illustrated instructions think he is incompetent.
He may not be able to dismantle the Deep State that has grown up since the McCain-Finegold law put the staffs in control.
He still has the best chance to do so.
I heard he didn’t take it too well when those 6 polls came out showing a huge wave for Democrats in November. Ah well, that’s politics.
Inga is always hearing voices that tell her things she likes to hear ("sycophants..." ha! the pot speaks of the kettle!). She heard those same voices crowing triumphantly exactly 12 months ago.
Hey, Inga! Remember this?
This is what they do
Http://dailycaller.com/2017/12/21/obama-echo-chamber-manufactures-media-narrative-ahead-of-investigations-into-hezbollah-scandal/?utm_source=site-share
They actually have faces David.
@KittyM and others...
You are dismayed and upset that President Trump says mean things about people, overwhelmingly people who have been hostile towards him. You claim that Obama and the Democrats did not do the same. Yet, for the last decade or so, Democrats and their media supporters have called ME racist, xenophobic, Islamophobic, deplorable, a clinger to guns and religion, a sexual pervert (Teabagger, look it up) und so weiter. I think you have a very weak case to make here.
So, fuck you and the horse you rode in on. MAGA
“Obama was a middle-of-the-road guy. He would have fit in as a "liberal Republican" back in the day where were there many of those in the party. Hillary was always a Goldwater Girl at heart, even when she took on the facade of being something else. She never seemed like a real human being, though. I think her insatiable ambition ate her soul.”
And, yet, he was far to the left of much of the country, and the most radical President of the last maybe century. I think that the reality is much more that you had a well dressed, well groomed, mild speaking, hard leftwing zealot who had sharp creases in his pants. Who always dreamed of acceptance by his communist father, whom he never met, hung around domestic terrorists, and attended a black liberation church for 20 years.
I will agree though about Crooked Hillary. While more radical than her husband, she was still an acolyte of Alynsky, as is Obama. But the overdriving thing in her life have been the twin drives for money and personal power. If she could have more easily come to Power as a Republican, I expect that she would have pulled her Goldwater pins out of storage. But the Democratic Party is the party of statists and corrupt machine politicians, so she always did much better there, where her extreme level of greed, and drive for Power was not only tolerated, but ultimately celebrated. One big difference between the two parties is that even though you have corrupt politicians on both sides of the isle, they are celebrated by the Democrats, while condemned by the Republicans. Which is a good part of why she is a Democrat.
Well said, Bruce.
"Oh, my gosh! I am loving Kitty M !. School marm is perfect,"
I know, right? That breathless wide eyed inocent vibe.
"Why whatever do you mean, sugah?"
Nearly perfect.
Secondly, I understand your point. I really do. But is there *any* way we can get past it and discuss Trump's behaviour *on its own merits
Um. No.
"Obama was a middle-of-the-road guy. He would have fit in as a "liberal Republican" back in the day where were there many of those........"
Is there any oxygen on your planet?
Gifts to people who actually do jobs. It sounds like a two-fer.
”And, yet, he was far to the left of much of the country, and the most radical President of the last maybe century.”
Hahahahaha!! How was he “left” at all? How was he “left of much of the country” given his two wins? Enough of the country agreed with enough to vote for him...or disagreed with his opponents more. (I didn’t vote for him.)
That he didn’t stop and call out Representative Wilson for shouting out "liar" at him during the SOTU speech was appeasement.
Obama was talking about Obamacare, and of course time has proven that he was lying. He claimed none of the money would go to illegal aliens, which was untrue. He was a liar, and he was lying at the time Wilson said it. Wilson had the utter temerity to point it out.
(Of course, Obama was a liar, and a war criminal...
Almost forgot what you claim to believe in your anger at hearing Obama called a liar, while he was lying.
Hahahahaha!! How was he “left” at all?
Robert Cook, who is to the left of Gorbachov, believes he occupies the political center.
@Big Mike "His enemies -- like you -- are mean, vicious, underhanded creatures who do not give a damn about the well-being of ordinary Americans and who fight everything Trump does regardless of whether it benefits people. This is not a good thing for our country."
I feel compelled to answer this comment, though it was posted a while back. I really hope you are reading, Big Mike.
How dare you write that. How the hell do you have the nerve to write that people who criticise Trump are "mean, vicious, underhanded creatures who do not give a damn about the well-being of ordinary Americans."
Everything else we can argue about. Everything else I can respectfully read and figure, OK, different strokes for different folks. But to dismiss me and at least half of the country as not caring about "ordinary Americans" is insulting bullshit. Are you seriously suggesting that *ONLY* people who hold your political views care about this country and its citizens? That is palpable nonsense.
I may be an idiot; my ideas may be laughable and ridiculous; if implemented, the policies I prefer may bring about terrible, negative consequences. All of that I am willing to concede as possibilities - and much more besides. You can even call me "mean, vicious and underhanded" (although based on what? You don't know me.)
BUT - I care about America and I care about the "well-being" of ordinary Americans. In fact, those of us who disagree with Trump's policies and judge him to be a poor president are nonetheless not his "enemies". We are his critics and opponents. And we are most of us critics and opponents precisely because we believe that his policies are bad for ordinary Americans. According to you, we are wrong. OK, time will tell. We may be wrong. But we care as much as you.
Your ideology - that divides this country into friends and enemies - that leaves no room for honest disagreement as to the ideal future of America - is deeply un-American, hateful and revolting.
I have the *feeling*that Kitty is deeply involved with*her* many cats.
"Hahahahaha!! How was he “left” at all? How was he “left of much of the country” given his two wins? Enough of the country agreed with enough to vote for him...or disagreed with his opponents more. (I didn’t vote for him.)"
Again, you confuse substance with appearances. He appeared moderate, and to be a well dressed, well groomed articulate, soft talking black man. That is what the voters voted for. Underneath that was the Alynsky acolyte who seemingly loved both communism and Islam, much better than America and his token Christianity. Who seemingly viewed America through the anti colonial lens of his third world fathers. Whose political career started at the home of domestic terrorists who had waged violent war against this country from within, and spent 20 years in church listening to Rev Wright rail about the evils of AmeriKKKa.
@dustbunny "I have the *feeling*that Kitty is deeply involved with*her* many cats."
Your comment is pretty much par for the course, by now. Almost nobody ever actually engages with the substance of my argument, but most of you are at the ready with a shitty remark about my personality or my crappy life.
Some people have suggested I am a troll. I am not. I am an actual person, posting as myself. I have made a particular effort here to be friendly, open and respectful because I am aware that as a person holding minority views here, and also as a newbie, I am more of a "guest" than others.
I have read many nasty comments about Inga and ARM which accuse them of being in turn too nasty and aggressive. But my friendlier efforts are met with vitriol. I don't know what tone I should take that would disarm you and the other commenters.
At any rate: Big Mike's comments enraged me. You guys do NOT have the monopoly on caring or on sincerity. That is nonsense.
"Almost nobody ever actually engages with the substance of my argument,"
I thought IgnoranceIsBliss did a pretty good job here. I don't think you responded to it.
Kitty asks: I don't know what tone I should take that would disarm you and the other commenters.
Nothing wrong with your tone, Kitty. It's your point of view. What is your goal here? To convince others or to learn from them? It's a good place to do both.
Some pertinent advice:
1. Never complain
2. Never explain
If you have confidence in your own convictions, double down on them. Look at Robert Cook's posts for some good examples from someone swimming against the tide here.
KittyM: How dare you write that. How the hell do you have the nerve to write that people who criticise Trump are "mean, vicious, underhanded creatures who do not give a damn about the well-being of ordinary Americans."
[...]
Your ideology - that divides this country into friends and enemies - that leaves no room for honest disagreement as to the ideal future of America - is deeply un-American, hateful and revolting.
Oh give it a fucking rest, KittyM.
You're the person people are talking about when they say "women ruin politics/conversations/comment threads". People like Big Mike scuzzing you and yours isn't what ruins productive civil discourse. I hang in many fora where the guys scuzz the hell out of each other within and between serious, long-form posting, and nobody takes it personally. The "no butthurt allowed" zone, far from degrading the conversation, produces a very pleasant atmosphere of bonhomie. (Where, btw, women who don't pull the ridiculous chick-shit you are constantly pulling here are welcomed, and their contributions -- which are never about their feelz -- are respected.)
"Almost nobody ever actually engages with the substance of my argument,"
Yes, they do. As Paco points out, you tend to disappear at that point. If you're looking for more "engagement", don't make people waste their time wading through your (entirely hypocritical) butthurt to find something to engage with. See if you can get through an entire thread without the "how dast you, suh!", "let me tell you how caring and civil I am" act. There are posters here who certainly conform to your alleged standards of civility. I don't recall any of them ever needing to constantly (or even once) tell the rest of us how bleedin' civil they are, or ever going on a tedious "how wude!" roll.
You are familiar with the old saw about "if a man tells you how honest he is, count your silver before he leaves", aren't you?
KittyM, Micheal, among others, also gave a straight, clear answer. People have engaged with you on their own terms which seems to upset you. I go here because the comments are smart, fun, snarky and if I'm lucky Laslo/jamesjames (are they the same person?) shows up.
mockturtle: If you have confidence in your own convictions, double down on them. Look at Robert Cook's posts for some good examples from someone swimming against the tide here.
Cook (that magnificent commie bastard) is a good example. He gets pretty rough treatment around here, and I've never once seen him go in for "civility bullshit". He isn't prissy and "above it all", either. He's passionate about his views, and gets as exasperated with what he considers wrong as anybody, but never whinges about what big meanies everyone is to him. (And he, if anybody, has a case for saying that everyone is a big meanie to him.)
Well, all of you have proved my point as none of you have engaged with my point - which is that you do not have the monopoly on caring.
I try to engage with everyone but I am often not here.
As to "civility bullshit" - what I do is NOT what Ann Althouse calls "civility bullshit" which is specifically about shutting down the conversation.
I am complaining that Michael was shutting down the conversation.
I repeat:
"I thought IgnoranceIsBliss did a pretty good job here. I don't think you responded to it."
Nobody is "shutting down the conversation". Althouse is pretty close to a wide-open forum. There is no way for anybody here, except Althouse and Meade, to "shut things down".* If somebody is saying stupid or exasperating things, it is trivially easy to ignore them. E.g., there is a list of commenters here (across the ideological spectrum) who I always ignore, because bitter prior experience has taught me that reading them is a waste of my ever-dwindling store of moments upon this earth.
--
*However, there are a few commenters who seem to specialize in attempting to redirect or derail 'conversations' that they apparently don't to want to occur.
Again Kitty.
What's your point?
KittyM: Well, all of you have proved my point as none of you have engaged with my point - which is that you do not have the monopoly on caring.
Exactly what is here to "engage" with? You're just stamping your feet that people think of the likes of you what you think of the likes of them, your passive-aggressive prevaricating notwithstanding. "I can control what people think of me, if I whine about it long enough" is a childish belief, and "I am, too, a caring person - or more caring than you" is not a "point" adults spend time "engaging" on, beyond pointing out the beam in your eye.
As to "civility bullshit" - what I do is NOT what Ann Althouse calls "civility bullshit" which is specifically about shutting down the conversation.
"How dast you!" is exactly that. Nothing ruins conversation faster than people making it all about their feelz. (But if you insist, you can leave off the "civility" part.)
I am complaining that Michael was shutting down the conversation.
I just re-read Michael's comments. What the hell are you talking about?
Example: I ignore posters who are nothing but silly trolls [and they know who they are]. But I always read Cookie because, though I usually disagree with him, he has genuine ideas. And he never, ever whines.
After my very first post on this blog someone called me a 'shithead'. Far from feeling insulted, I was amused and even felt as though I had somehow 'arrived'.
Kittym: are you referring to Michael's comment at 2:18pm as "shutting down the conversation"? Because when I read that, I see a substantive response, as appropriate to the thread as the comment I linked to earlier. If you're referring instead to Big Mike's comment, that looks like a simple tit-for-tat tu quoque responding to your blanket accusation.
Either way, focusing on the tone rather than the substance is your choice.
@Paco Wové ""I thought IgnoranceIsBliss did a pretty good job here. I don't think you responded to it."
You are right. I was not online and didn't see that comment. I will respond below. Thanks for reminding me!
@ IgnoranceIsBliss "You and your allies on the left have spent the past fifty years cramming unqualified* judges down our throats and big government up our asses 24/7/365.2422. If your side was willing to limit the federal government to its constitutional role, bound by its constitutional limits, it would matter a whole lot less who was president....That is how you got Trump. That is how you will get more Trump....*By unqualified I mean unable or unwilling to follow the Constitution as it is written, rather than as they wish it to be."
First of all, *I* didn't do anything. I wasn't personally cramming any judges down anyone's throats. The habit of countering arguments from the left with random "bad" things (in your opinion) that Democrats did, rather than actually argue a case is very frustrating.
Essentially, your argument boils down to: yes, Trump is not ideal - but left-wing people put through policy I didn't like over the years, so it's their fault!
How is this even an argument??? Colour me unimpressed.
I needle Kitty because there's actually a substantive point to draw from her kaffeeklatsch yammerings. Her posts evince a particular negative characteristic of American public and political life that observers from Tocqueville to Jacques Barzun have noted. To wit, the belief in the usefulness of the ritual of "exchanging views", as an end in itself, the observation that Americans "discuss" but they do not converse.
I'm struck by the way Kitty keeps repeating that she's just here as individual to present her views, even if, as she admits, those views are commomplace and already known to all readers. As if an individual merely presenting his individual views has some inherent value in itself. Iiirc (can't be arsed to root around for it on the bookshelf), Barzun has an essay on this sterile "exchange" that lacks any real critical or philosophical spirit, in which views are traded like objects (eventually just returned to their owners), and which is the antithesis of genuine conversation.
It's cargo-cult conversation.
@Paco Wové: "If you're referring instead to Big Mike's comment, that looks like a simple tit-for-tat tu quoque responding to your blanket accusation. Either way, focusing on the tone rather than the substance is your choice."
Yes I was referring to this comment. Let's look at it again:
"His enemies -- like you -- are mean, vicious, underhanded creatures who do not give a damn about the well-being of ordinary Americans and who fight everything Trump does regardless of whether it benefits people. This is not a good thing for our country."
Now reread my reaction. I absolutely focussed on the substance of his comment, which is "left wing people are shits who don't care about ordinary people". That substance (if you can call it that) is what I was objecting to.
@Angel Dyne "I'm struck by the way Kitty keeps repeating that she's just here as individual to present her views, even if, as she admits, those views are commomplace and already known to all readers. As if an individual merely presenting his individual views has some inherent value in itself."
Oh yeah, my comments are nothing compared to the brilliance of the rest of the crowd.
Kitty, let it go. Stop talking about yourself. Internet scuzzings (even the ones that say "you", and "you people") are not personal, no matter how badly you want to make it All About Kitty.
As has been suggested, go read Cookie, or even ARM, for an insight into How It's Done.
“I have read many nasty comments about Inga and ARM which accuse them of being in turn too nasty and aggressive. But my friendlier efforts are met with vitriol. I don't know what tone I should take that would disarm you and the other commenters.”
Kitty, I doesn’t matter what tone one takes here. If you express ideas that differ from the majority here, you’re a target for abuse. I’ve been commenting here since 2011 and while it’s always been a place that is hostile to liberals, it’s become worse with the advent of Trump. I’m not often surprised anymore by the depths to which these commenters here can sink. Their degradation is self inflicted. There are self identified Christians like Mockturtle who recites bible verses, while gleefully joining in the nasty commentary. Hypocrites and haters abound here. I’m used to it, but I know it must be shocking to you. You’ve tried to engage people here by being polite, but you now see what that gets you, you become more of a target.
As for being called a troll, it’s a go to insult for some of them because they are under the impression that liberals don’t have a place here. Any idea or subject matter that is introduced is perceived as a personal affront. They think you are trying to convince them of something or to change their views, possibly true, but in my case I’m here to express my opinion, that is all and that infuriates them. These people are closed minded, they suffer from epistemic closure in its most severe form. No amount of rational or reasonable or polite interaction with them will ever result in a conversation that isn’t peppered with insult. It’s very difficult not reciprocating.
I’m sorry that you’re being treated so shabbily here, but I’m not at all surprised.
"Essentially, your argument boils down to: yes, Trump is not ideal - but left-wing people put through policy I didn't like over the years, so it's their fault!
How is this even an argument??? Colour me unimpressed."
You really don't see it? Let me try to rephrase: "Trump is not ideal, but the policies and actions of the Democrats and their allies over the past number of years has left the country in such a state that we are willing to put up with Trump's bad qualities in the hope that those bad policies and actions may be halted and, hopefully, reversed."
Big Mike was responding to
"Trump and his supporters - like you - ..."
Seems to me that you, KittyM, personalized things first. You really shouldn't be surprised at the responses you get.
“I needle Kitty because there's actually a substantive point to draw from her kaffeeklatsch yammerings.”
Oh please. You needle her because you are a sadistic bitch.
“As has been suggested, go read Cookie, or even ARM, for an insight into How It's Done.”
Hilarious. Disingenuous bullshit. Cookie, ARM and any liberal or independent gets the same abuse by rightist small minded commenters here. It’s not “ how it’s done”, it’s THAT it’s done that these people here can’t tolerate.
@Inga "Cookie, ARM and any liberal or independent gets the same abuse by rightist small minded commenters here."
I have to say, based on the relatively short time I have been here, you are right.
@Paco Wové ""Trump is not ideal, but the policies and actions of the Democrats and their allies over the past number of years has left the country in such a state that we are willing to put up with Trump's bad qualities in the hope that those bad policies and actions may be halted and, hopefully, reversed.""
That is actually super helpful and clear. Thank you.
Paco: Seems to me that you, KittyM, personalized things first. You really shouldn't be surprised at the responses you get.
And nothing says "civil" and "substantive" like calling people who presume to disagree with you "seriously delusional".
Not that I have anything against calling people "seriously delusional" if that is one's considered opinion. I only note the spoiled toddler lack of "theory of mind" in what I assume is a grown woman.
“@Inga "Cookie, ARM and any liberal or independent gets the same abuse by rightist small minded commenters here."
I have to say, based on the relatively short time I have been here, you are right.”
Althouse and Meade do occasionally intervene, but they have lives offline and I don’t expect them to catch everything and nip it in the bud before it gets out of hand and becomes a feeding frenzy directed at one particular commenter.
@Angel Dyne "Kitty, let it go. Stop talking about yourself. Internet scuzzings (even the ones that say "you", and "you people") are not personal, no matter how badly you want to make it All About Kitty."
I get you and I agree with you. In general - the internet is a rough and tumble kind of place. And also specifically, that I have too often referred to my own politeness in a failed attempt to somehow generate less hostility. That's a mistake on my part, for sure.
But - to return to the Big Mike comment that set me off and my response: it's not personal. It is about all left-leaning people and the idea that *everyone* on this side of the political divide is "mean-spritzed", an "enemy of Trump" and does not have the best interests of the American people at heart.
That is not true. So I commented to that effect.
Do *you* think Big Mike is right? Are *you* another commenter for whom people on the left of Trump are "mean, vicious, underhanded creatures" who don't care about people?
“And nothing says "civil" and "substantive" like calling people who presume to disagree with you "seriously delusional".”
And you do far worse, you hypocrite.
"I'm struggling to find the phrase that describes a New York City version of "country dumb." "
Rube!
An old carnie term to refer to the locals who keep getting relieved of their pocket cash at the local carnivals and fairs that play in small country towns.
Trump is not a Rube; but, he is their revenge.
Perhaps, Kitty, Inga et al; If you learned some critical thinking skills and applied to the leftist boiler plate you freely espouse as if is given down from heaven above you might stand a chance here.
None of you are interested in reasoned discourse. "Trump is a shit president." isn't reasoned discourse. Lying isn't reasoned discourse. Disingenuous posing isn't reasoned discourse.
Now let's start over. What has Trump and his policies done to hurt the country at large.
And yes it is completely fair to compare Trumps accomplishments and or deficiencies to Obamas accomplishments and or deficiencies?
Warning! You must have some grounding in basic economics.
“Perhaps, Kitty, Inga et al; If you learned some critical thinking skills...”
Hahahaha! Coming from you? Do you even know what critical thinking skills are? Your comments are as a rule, devoid of any substance. Stick to working on your cars in your garage.
"Are *you* another commenter for whom people on the left of Trump are "mean, vicious, underhanded creatures" who don't care about people?"
Generally, no. A few comments:
* I don't think Trump fits well into any of the usual left-right dichotomies that usually get bandied about in U.S. politics, so "left of Trump" doesn't mean a whole lot to me.
* I usually try to stay away from making generalizations about large groups of people, unless they seem strictly warranted. I don't know what motivates people, but I doubt many* of them are inspired by the goal of screwing over others. That doesn't mean the results of their policies won't screw over others, though.
*Some, however, definitely seem to be motivated by the goal of screwing over others. All of them seem to have persuaded themselves that said screwing is in the name of 'justice'.
@Rusty "Now let's start over. What has Trump and his policies done to hurt the country at large.
And yes it is completely fair to compare Trumps accomplishments and or deficiencies to Obamas accomplishments and or deficiencies?"
I have to get offline now. Can we pursue this conversation some time tomorrow? I'll keep a look out for you or come back here.
Inga said...
“Perhaps, Kitty, Inga et al; If you learned some critical thinking skills...”
Hahahaha! Coming from you? Do you even know what critical thinking skills are? Your comments are as a rule, devoid of any substance. Stick to working on your cars in your garage.
The irony is palatable.
Now that you have that off your chest.
Would you care to address the subject I brought up?
Please be as detailed and as technical as you wish. I'll try and keep up.
@Paco Wové
As I said to Rusty, I have to go now. I am interested in your latest comment - and encouraged by it in the sense that I agree with both your points.
Kitty explains: I have to get offline now. Can we pursue this conversation some time tomorrow? I'll keep a look out for you or come back here.
This is not a chat room.
“The irony is palatable.”
“Palatable”? LOL!
“This is not a chat room.”
She trying to discuss something, she’s not using the thread as a chat room. It’s not your call to tell her what to do.
Blogger Inga said...
“The irony is palatable.”
“Palatable”? LOL!
You might want to stop. You're proving my point.
"Can we pursue this conversation some time tomorrow?"
One of the drawbacks of the post-then-comments format of blogs is that each post and its associated comment thread is on a conveyor belt into the past, and any back-and-forth that develops eventually dies out (besides which, Althouse closes the threads to new comments eventually). Makes me miss the old, old days of Usenet and TRN...
...anyway, if Althouse doesn't put up an appropriate new post, you can always put something in a café thread.
“You might want to stop. You're proving my point.”
You might want to stop acting like a macaque trying to speak English. Your trying to engage Kitty or even myself in a discussion is laughable. Why waste my time? I’m busy today and it’s ridiculous arguing with a monkey. Kitty can do as she pleases.
Thank you, Inga. For that insight into your personality.
I ask you a ligitimate question and in return you throw poo.
Ironic.
No?
You have a yourself a nice Christmas.
Your ideology - that divides this country into friends and enemies - that leaves no room for honest disagreement as to the ideal future of America - is deeply un-American, hateful and revolting. - KittyM
Gee. I wonder where we could possibly get the idea that some people think in those terms.
Wait. I know.
‘We’re gonna punish our enemies and we’re gonna reward our friends who stand with us on issues that are important to us,’ - Barack H. Obama
Your concerns about tone would be much more sincere if you were actually aware that your president spent the last eight years beating the shit out of people like me.
No amount of rational or reasonable or polite interaction with them will ever result in a conversation that isn’t peppered with insult
Followed by ...
You needle her because you are a sadistic bitch.
Too. Easy.
‘We’re gonna punish our enemies and we’re gonna reward our friends who stand with us on issues that are important to us,’ - Barack H. Obama
OMG. no other president has EVER said anything like this before or after Obama. Oh my lord. You people are spineless.
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