"... and would soon lose his home following a swift backlash over the article. Hovater, a 29-year-old Ohio resident, told The Washington Post on Wednesday that he has been fired from his job and that he and his wife, Maria, are in the process of moving out of their home in New Carlisle, Ohio, for financial and safety reasons. They could no longer afford to pay the rent, he said, and somebody had published their home address online. 'It’s not for the best to stay in a place that is now public information,' he said, adding later: 'We live alone. No one else is there to watch the house while I’m away.'"
Take into account that Hovater is pushing a GoFundMe page (but it's collected very little money). From that page: "Despite the incessant claims that the [NYT] was attempting to 'humanize' Mr. Hovater and paint him in a positive light, the article resulted in a smear campaign against Tony and his bride. Communists, Antifa, and general basement-dwelling ne'er-do-wells set to work immediately, identifying their place of employment and harrassing their management into terminating them. Unfortunately, as a result, the Hovaters are suddenly without an income and are going to have to leave their home."
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९६ टिप्पण्या:
It's mob entertainment. Apparently there's no self-awareness in audiences.
Things that are not a public problem become a public problem.
Rules thoughtlessly plucked from the air and instantly applied.
Conservatives used to think first of perverse consequences but they're in the mob now.
Antifa is a criminal organization and should be charged by the DoJ and sued by the people its attacked.
Funny how no Big Reporters are interested in investigating its funding or leadership. Nope they're just plain folks like you and me.
Meanwhile, we get mob violence against some dumb so-called "Nazi" who can't even make a rent payment.
Pathetic.
general basement-dwelling ne'er-do-wells ?!?!?! That turns a phrase.
What are the pajama-wearing ne'er-do-wells up to these days?
ne'er-do-wells needs to come back in style.
I can't say I'm surprised.
He should have insisted on using a pseudonym with no pictures. But, this is what you get when you're an actual Nazi sympathizer in a world that thinks it is OK to punch people who aren't even Nazi sympathizers.
But, such is life.
Take into account that Hovater is pushing a GoFundMe page (but it's collected very little money).
The country is so overrun with Nazis that he'd have collected millions of dollars by now if Nazis weren't such gosh-darned cheapskates.
And where's that "white privelege" that you always brag about, Mr. Cisgender White Man?
Clearly, the NYT owes him a position on their staff. He could write an Op-Ed column.
There is a guy at the bar lately who got fired from his job because of something he posted on his Social Media. It involved a Hollywood Celebrity in the news and NAMBLA. Yeah: that celebrity. The post could not reasonably be misconstrued as supporting NAMBLA, but reason is like common sense: a lot of people don't have it. They probably have their reasons. That make sense to them.
The post got the attention of a co-worker, who does not like the idea of grown men raping young boys. So the guy got called into HR, where he explained that he didn't like the idea of grown men raping young boys, either. He was making a point about hypocrisy in the way points are often made on the internet: through hyperbole.
HR informed him that child rape is not funny, and is certainly against company policy. There are people employed there who have children, and they do not want those children raped. The fear of child rape creates an unsafe work environment. She told him that, if he thought about it, he wouldn't want to work in an unsafe environment, either. Which was kinda beside the point by then, because they then fired him. He would no longer work in their unsafe environment.
He wasn't able to find another office job, so he is working in a warehouse near the ferry terminal. Occasionally he drives a forklift. The guy who trained him on the forklift can't drive a forklift anymore. Because of an injury he received from a forklift. Some environments are more unsafe than others.
- james james
The man has standing in a court of law. for having lost money and the NYT has deep pockets.That used to enough for an attorney to offer to help someone.
You'd think that SWJ women pleased with this outcome would at least worry over his cats.
"The man has standing in a court of law. for having lost money and the NYT has deep pockets."
-- This was a perfectly foreseeable conclusion to the agreeing to the NYT's article. The people he should sue are the ones threatening him and forcing him into hiding; the NYT knew this would be the likely result. I can't see him winning a lawsuit against them.
Authentic American Nazis are hard to find.
But when one is found, we can all feel better after the Two Minutes Hate.
But, think of how much better we'd feel watching a "reality" TV show featuring Fahrenheit 451's mechanical hound vs. the American Nazi!
Aaah, panem et circenses, let the Games begin!
Matthew Sablan retorted: The people he should sue are the ones threatening him and forcing him into hiding; the NYT knew this would be the likely result. I can't see him winning a lawsuit against them.
Recall the Spike Lee thing. The victims of Lee's malice didn't sue the people who came after them; they sued the man who incited the physical perps. Or if they didn't sue Lee, they at least embarrassed him into settlement.
@chicklit
He's screwed. Nobody forced him to give the interview. Outing yourself as a Nazi sympathizer is not going to lead to promotions and high paying jobs. He and his wife were morons for agreeing to the interview. Of course they were screwed the instant the NYT decided to focus on them. They were going to run an article regardless. Since the guy really was a Nazi sympathizer he wouldn't have been able to claim that the Times were lying about him.
@RH
Lecturing the left about how we should behave as a society while carefully adjusting our bow ties has had zero utility so far. For some strange reason they keep on using tactics that work for them.
The Left just created a few thousand more white nationalists by using fascist tactics against this nobody. This is how you get more Trump--or worse.
Take into account that Hovater is pushing a GoFundMe page (but it's collected very little money).
The Growing Nazi Menace is lucrative for anti-Nazis only.
Matther Sablan: Also keep in mind that some of the photographic evidence used to "convict" Hovator was false and misleading, especially combined with the text. Althouse and I have already pointed this out. Clearly, the NYT -- unlike the vaunted WaPo, doesn't fact check.
The only case the guy has against the NYT is if they straight out lied about him being a Nazi sympathizer.
"He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."
In the 1940s and 50s, it was communists (alleged or actual) who were fired and blacklisted from jobs; now, it is nazis (actual, and, no doubt, eventually alleged) who are fired and blacklisted from jobs.
The pendulum swings...and will swing back.
Paine's essential warning is always apt and universally applicable.
Spike Lee also DID encourage people to go after someone, including posting their address. The NYT did neither of those.
They need to move to Germany where they will be accepted. The Germans were our deadly enemy. Not the Russians. And it is all happening again.
"He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."
The precedent has already been set.
Ralph L. comments: This is how you get more Trump--or worse.
Trump has accomplished more for America in one year than Obama did in eight.
Paine's essential warning is always apt and universally applicable.
Exactly so, Cookie.
A little audience self-awareness would disable the left's stuff just fine.
What you want to work for is the pleasure of a good reading of the situation, not a quick rush from being angry.
A good reading has the additional advantage that it works.
They need to move to Germany where they will be accepted. The Germans were our deadly enemy. Not the Russians. And it is all happening again.
Honestly, trad, WTF?
Re: Hovater, wonder if his gofundme will cover a truck bomb. But I'm afraid the security at 620 Eighth Avenue is probabkly excellent.
rhhardin said...
A little audience self-awareness would disable the left's stuff just fine.
What you want to work for is the pleasure of a good reading of the situation, not a quick rush from being angry.
A good reading has the additional advantage that it works.
11/30/17, 9:37 AM
More meaningless and definitely un-actionable babble from you. This is my shocked face.
The most important issue related to the Charlottesville incident is that the car-attack on the anti-racism protests was set up by some of the government officials who controlled the event.
The protest was supposed to take place in a park, but the government canceled the protest and diverted all the protesters onto Water Street.
The pro-racism protesters were supposed to walk east on Water Street and then turn north onto Fifth Street. They were supposed to be followed, at a distance, on that same route by the anti-racism protesters.
However, when the anti-racism protesters reached Fourth Street, they were stopped and diverted north. Just as that crowd began to walk north on Fourth Street, the car driver received a signal to drive south into the crowd.
My problem here is that it is essentially penalizing wrongthink in order to enforce rightthink, defined, of course, by the left. And doing so with violence, or credible threats of violence. The Democrats and the left lost last year, and are turning out to be horrible losers, which adversely affects the foundations of our civil society. The foundation of our government is that it is by the consent of the governed. And that means elections, and accepting the loss of such for the good of the country. Much of the left is willing to mouth support for this, when they are winning, but are willing to resort to violence when they lose. The “Resistance”. Killing Trump appears to be a common wish in the fetid portions there. And a deranged Democrat shot up a bunch of Republicans at softball practice, solely for being Republican, and Sen Paul was attacked working in his yard. Resistance. And, meanwhile, even some of the posters here seem willing to justify Antifa violence against otherwise peaceful racists and nazis, solely on the grounds of wrongthink.
“Trump has accomplished more for America in one year than Obama did in eight”
Let me revise this: “Trump has accomplished more GOOD for America in one year than Obama did in eight”. In his first two years, Obama signed into law Obamacare, Dodd-Frank, and the Porkulus “stimulus” bill (which was primarily a way to massively pay off cronies and political constituencies at the public expense). After almost eight years, I think that it is hard to argue with a straight face that any one of those three things was a good thing.
Why did he agree to the article in the first place?
Bruce, I did say, 'for' America as opposed to against it.
he pro-racism group was infiltrated by government informants, who reported beforehand that a member, James Alex Fields, wanted to drive his car into the anti-racism group. The day's events were rearranged by government officials in order to facilitate Fields' intention.
Fields was instructed to place his car at the north end of Fourth Street, and he received a signal when he was supposed to start driving south.
Meanwhile, the crowd of anti-racism protesters was diverted to turn early from Water Street and to march north on Fourth Street.
Fields' intended getaway was blocked by a van that had been parked at the intersection of Fourth Street and Water Street. However, Fields managed to make his getaway by backing up north on Fourth Street.
I guess one of my questions is what is wrong with white pride? White male Judeo-Christian pride? They are the ones who are most responsible for the god life that we now live in this country , and, indeed, the greatly better state of humanity around the world. The innovation and entrepreneurship that have greatly reduced hunger and disease, while giving us electricity, computers, the Internet, automobiles, etc. Not all cultures are equivalent. For example, Islam, despite better than a billion believers, has a fraction of the Nobel Prizes that tiny Israel and the Jews have. Arguably, the fatalism and the extreme sexism of the faith are greatly responsible for this almost complete lack of innovation.
No connection to Trump. The NYT just sees "Nazi" and goes bananas trying to create a meme out of some idiot's self-proclaimed "beliefs." They are almost literally "cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs" in their zeal to prove there's a movement out there somewhere. Instead they prove how pitiful and lame and powerless these rubes are. If the NYT had any balls they would do the same in-depth treatment for self-described Antifa assholes.
But they won't because they fear their own side. They fear the fascists in their midst.
I have some sympathy for the fellow. I'm sure the reporter tried to bait him into expressing really vile sentiments, but the closest they come is him posting an idealised fantasy image of the world would be like if the Germans had won the war. And the article itself clearly indicates that his admiration for the Nazis is tempered (1) by his view that the Holocaust didn't kill as many Jews as people generally think, and (2) that, um, Hitler was "kind of chill" about Slavs and homosexuals (?). So you can see him shying away from the violence inherent in National Socialism. That's a far cry from, e.g. that nurse who was fired recently for articulating the modest proposal that White babies all be fed to wolves. That is the kind of enthusiastic bloodthirst you expect from an echt National Socialist, not this weak tea. And the absence of that kind of overt hate is probably why readers were disappointed that the Times was "normalizing" him.
It was dumb of him to give the interview and let them photograph him, but frankly, a welder whose dream is an agrarian society where large landowners control all political power and "normies" have no say is obviously not great at thinking things through to their logical conclusion.
I do feel sorry for him.
A couple of anti-racism thugs were positioned near the van that had been parked at the intersection of Fourth and Water in order to block Fields' get-away. When Fields had to stop because of the van, the thugs would pull Fields out of his car and knife him to death.
Fields would be silenced in order to keep secret the fact that he had been told by someone where to position his car and when to begin driving south.
Nevertheless, Fields made a get-away by backing his car north on Fourth Street. Fields was arrested soon, but his survival is a huge problem for the government officials who facilitated his car-attack on the crowd of anti-racism protestors. Fields eventually might talk too much about how he was informed where and when he should begin driving toward the anti-racism protesters.
Robert Cook:
Thomas Paine:"He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."
In the 1940s and 50s, it was communists (alleged or actual) who were fired and blacklisted from jobs; now, it is nazis (actual, and, no doubt, eventually alleged) who are fired and blacklisted from jobs.
There is a bit of a difference. Hovater is a small-timer. No foreign government behind him. Alger Hiss was spying for the Soviets. Consider Dalton Trumbo. Trumbo cranked out anti-war propaganda before the Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union: The Remarkable Andrew and Johnny Got His Gun. After the Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union, Trumbo still got inquiries about Johnny Got His Gun. Trumbo turned those people into the FBI. Trumbo, though a talented screenwriter, was also a Stalinist sleaze. He deserves zero sympathy.
The CPUSA was a Soviet puppet. Years after the fact, I found out that the father of a high school classmate spent nearly a decade as a CPUSA operative. Not a mere member.He quit after the 1956 Nikita speech denouncing Stalin.
Mike @ 9:44am,
You know this -- your final sentence especially -- how, exactly?
rhhardin: A little audience self-awareness would disable the left's stuff just fine.
"Assume we have a can opener...".
(Just about everything you've posted in the last six months or so here could be paraphrased thus.)
The site that’s collecting money for him isn’t Go Fund Me, as they don’t collect money for Nazis and White Supremacists. The site is called Goy Fund Me, nice eh? A reference to Jews who they hate so much. What did he think would happen? Did the NYTs break him arm to do the article?
What did he think would happen? Did the NYTs break him arm to do the article?
True, but maybe he thought what happened to Bill Ayers would happen to him after his coverage in the NYT on, as it happens, 9/11/2001:
No Regrets for a Love Of Explosives; In a Memoir of Sorts, a War ...
www.nytimes.com/.../no-regrets-for-love-explosives-memoir-sorts-war-protester-talks...
Sep 11, 2001 - Mr. Ayers and Ms. Dohrn later married. In his book Mr. Ayers describes the Weathermen descending into a ''whirlpool of violence.'' ''Everything was absolutely ideal on the day I bombed the Pentagon,'' he writes.
I.e., nothing bad. Maybe in a decade Hovater will be hosting future Presidents in his living room, too.
A drummer in a heavy metal band goes over the top in trying to freak out the Establishment, learns to regret it. Wife/GF is wondering right about now why she didn't take up with the lead guitar.
Some government officials wanted Fields to drive his car into the anti-racism protesters. The goal was to create a notorious massacre that would cause the population to think that the election of Donald Trump might cause a race war.
In order for Fields to drive his car into the crowd, the following series of actions had to be accomplished:
1) The protest in the park had to be canceled.
2) All the protesters had to be moved to Water Street.
3) The pro-racism protesters had to be directed north on Fifth Street.
4) The anti-racism protesters had to be directed north on Fourth Street.
5) Fields had to be told to position his car at the north end of Fourth Street.
6) Fields had to be told when to start driving south on Fourth Street.
In addition, to silence Fields, the following actions had to be accomplished.
7) Fields' get-away southward had to be blocked by a van.
8) Thugs had to be positioned by the van.
9) The thugs had to pull Fields out of his car and knife him to death.
All the actions were accomplished except the last one. Fields managed to make a get-away by backing up north on Fourth Street. Fields eventually was arrested, but he still is alive and can talk about how he knew where and when to begin driving toward the crowd.
Re: Mike Sylvester:
You have a lot more faith in the cunning and competence of our civil service than I have.
The Growing Nazi Menace is lucrative for anti-Nazis only.
11/30/17, 9:14 AM
This surprises me, since if you listen to Ritmo and Inga and other leftists, you believe that everyone who voted for Trump dresses up in a SS uniform and practices goose stepping in their living room on the days when they're not trying to run over minority kids with their pickup trucks.
“You have a lot more faith in the cunning and competence of our civil service than I have.”
Agreed. Ever been to the DMV? Sure, maybe some bureaucrats could have come up with such a 9 step Rube Goldberg plan, but it is unlikely that they could execute beyond maybe the first step or two. Too many moving parts, many of which they didn’t have complete control over.
"This surprises me, since if you listen to Ritmo and Inga and other leftists, you believe that everyone who voted for Trump dresses up in a SS uniform and practices goose stepping in their living room on the days when they're not trying to run over minority kids with their pickup trucks. "
Sixty three million people voted for Trump. If they really believed that they would be racing to leave the country.
The Tolerant Left at it's finest.
And yet they excoriated the Right for making the lives of other people unlivable.
They are hypocrites.
exiled: "This surprises me, since if you listen to Ritmo and Inga and other leftists, you believe that everyone who voted for Trump dresses up in a SS uniform and practices goose stepping in their living room on the days when they're not trying to run over minority kids with their pickup trucks"
What is even more surprising is that Inga and their lifelong republican allies inadvertently offered up some serious moral equivalence between republicans and democrats just yesterday, since the lefty/LLR side is taking so many sexual harassment hits, conveniently forgetting that she was professing moral equivalence with Nazi's!
Too funny.
This happens to the Inga's and ARM's and the LLR Chucks quite a lot, as history MUST begin anew each day in order to "win" that day's political battles.
It's an amusing thing to watch.
Watch the following three videos in this order.
1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePsK0dpyu4g
2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCBfjIDriYw
3) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESHIrLb7xxM
+++++
If you don't want to watch that much, then at least go to the second video ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCBfjIDriYw
... and watch
* from 14:30 to 16:30
and
* from 21:00 to 21:15
That adds up to just 2:15 minutes of your time.
You will see how the antifa protesters were stopped at Fourth Street and then were diverted north onto Fourth Street. A few seconds later -- as the crowd began walking north, Fields drove his car into the crowd.
+++++
I discussed this in more detail on this blog's thread, dated November 6 and titled At the Sunrise Café
http://althouse.blogspot.com/2017/11/at-sunrise-cafe.html
I don’t think that the egregious highlighting of the bogus nazi menace is about money, but rather is just to justify left wing (esp Antifa) violence by the “Resistance”. Funny thing to me is that Antifa is using techniques pioneered by the Fascists and Nazis of the late 1920s through mid 1930s to intimidate the opposition through violence, in order to gain political power to implement socialist goals.
A can opener can be constructed.
Poor useful idiot...
Guys like to construct stuff.
No emoting.
I don't have much sympathy for Nazi sympathizers, but I do have some sympathy for those who suffer disproportionate punishment for voicing odious views. First they came for the Nazi sympathizers.......I think he probably gave the interview in order to fulfill his fantasy of being unjustly persecuted. They say that even paranoiacs have enemies, but, as a corollary to this, it should be noted that paranoiacs are especially good at creating enemies.
One nice self-awareness thing would be if women could be aware of when they're thinking like women instead of men. That there is a difference and that the two modes don't work equally well for every problem. Indeed sometimes make the problem worse and more complex, because now you have the problem and all the women against you too.
Another kill-zone a la Charlotsville set up by Antifa, the liberal press, and neo-National Democrats.
The class diversitists and abortionists deny human dignity and life as is their ideological and moral imperative.
Oh, well. It's a progressive slope. Let's see where it leads.
Continuing my last point - I still haven’t decided whether your run of the mill violent Antifa fascist thug is completely lacking in self awareness as to his use of fascist techniques to gain fascist ends, or if he realizes that, and is being “ironic”. Suspect the former, but the latter, for some, wouldn't surprise me, esp given how irony is considered an art form by the Millennials.
maybe he thought what happened to Bill Ayers would happen to him after his coverage in the NYT
Yeah, everyone dreams of revealing their odious thoughts, and being appointed to a lucrative professor gig at a liberal university. Unfortunately, class diversity and abortion rites strike too close to the left-wing home, and instead he will be denied life, liberty, and come what may. As women and babies before, they will be sacrificed for progress.
exiles muses: you believe that everyone who voted for Trump dresses up in a SS uniform and practices goose stepping in their living room on the days when they're not trying to run over minority kids with their pickup trucks.
Yes, just yesterday I goose-stepped a little too vehemently and put my foot through a window. But it's all for the cause.
mockturtle: "Yes, just yesterday I goose-stepped a little too vehemently and put my foot through a window. But it's all for the cause."
I understand "the party" will reimburse you for minor expenses like that.
@Exile,
dresses up in a SS uniform and practices goose stepping in their living room
Oh, Exile, don't tell me you have so soon forgotten the halcyon days of our youth when the crew would meet at Crazy Eddie's Bar & you & I would stare languidly into each other's eyes while hoisting a stein of Lowenbrau to the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied?
The article oozes with Cloud People contempt for the Dirt People. I mean really, who on Earth would want to live in Dayton, Ohio? Ohio, for God's sake!
Drago reassures me: I understand "the party" will reimburse you for minor expenses like that.
Oh, yes, indeed! Not just for the window but for the 58 stitches in my leg. ;-)
Mike Sylvester:
The most important issue related to the Charlottesville incident is that the car-attack on the anti-racism protests was set up by some of the government officials who controlled the event.
I watched those videos but I doubt that "government officials" were behind it. The real controllers might get paychecks from Soros of one of his cut outs.
Nobody I know in government could make some plan work unless they are in the military and under O-7 level.
The alarming event isn't what happens to one white supremacist. But consider this outcome along with the left's assertion that racists used to say blacks weren't equal but now say government spends too much. Whatever they do to one contemptible person they will also do to anyone who disagrees with them given the chance.
I saw a tweet yesterday that said this nobody white nationalist had been quoted or mentioned in the NYTimes 22 times prior to this last long article.
Seems a little funny, huh?
Totally predictable.
He's not very smart for not foreseeing this, but then again, the smart reporter probably took advantage of the fact that the man is not very smart in getting him to do the interview. Not very nice of the reporter. The ideas of a tiny fringe movement don't need to be reported on with names and pictures of faces; that's basically pillorying them, isn't it?
From the WaPo article:
where a car allegedly driven by a Nazi sympathizer plowed into a group of counterprotesters, killing 32-year-old Heather Heyer.
Is there really any doubt that the car was driven? I can't believe how horrible the Post writing has become. Helpful hint to the Post: "...a car driven by an alleged Nazi sympathizer plowed into a group...."
I'm sorry to read about this person's job-loss. Apparently I should be quizzing my restaurant server on their political views now?
Nazis. I hate these guys.
Blogger RichardJohnson said...
Alger Hiss was spying for the Soviets. Consider Dalton Trumbo. Trumbo cranked out anti-war propaganda before the Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union: The Remarkable Andrew and Johnny Got His Gun. After the Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union, Trumbo still got inquiries about Johnny Got His Gun. Trumbo turned those people into the FBI. Trumbo, though a talented screenwriter, was also a Stalinist sleaze. He deserves zero sympathy.
Today we worry because the Russians (maybe) spent $100,000 on Facebook ads, trying to influence a $2bn election. They spent half the money after the election.
But it is a YUGE! problem.
As you point out, in the 30s-50s our governement was riddled with people with security clearances in high and low positions who were taking money from the Russian govt. FDR even had a VP who may (or may not) have been taking Russian money.
Yeah, these American National Socialists are a real threat.
I agree with you about Trumbo but recently watched the movie Trumbo with Bryan Cranston as Trumbo. It downplayed his Russian connections and sympathies but was still a pretty good movie. I was amazed that it only Mentioned McCarthy once and didn't even blame him for Trumbo's troubles.
Excellent book on the Russian spying is "Clever Girl" about Elizabeth Bently who blew the whistle on a number of highly placed spies in the 50's. Available via Ann's portal.
John Henry
mockturtle: "Oh, yes, indeed! Not just for the window but for the 58 stitches in my leg. ;-)"
Whoa whoa!
I didn't say anything about stitches.
Just pretend to be illegal and head to your emergency room.
The NYT's interest is to reinforce the close association that leftists have carefully nurtured between Germany's National Socialist Party and ideology (e.g. [class] diversity, elective abortion, "=" or political congruence), and the American "right", including conservatives (i.e. constitutional or center) and libertarians.
The left carried out the same witch hunt (i.e. public baby hunt) for the "white Hispanic", and everyone related, and not related to him. Or was it "Hispanic white"?
It's one thing to marginalize someone's views and something altogether different to abort them as individuals (i.e. life, liberty, etc.) in the public space.
>I don’t think that the egregious highlighting of the bogus nazi menace is about money, but rather is just to justify left wing (esp Antifa) violence by the “Resistance”.
I suspect you're right. To produce the illusion they need to fight racism, they draw attention to the rate racist.
Drago warns: Whoa whoa!
I didn't say anything about stitches.
Not to mention losing two fingers in an exuberant 'Heil Hitler!'. But mein Fuhrer, rest his soul, would be proud of my enthusiasm.
Robert Cook said...
"He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."
Great quote.
In the 1940s and 50s, it was communists (alleged or actual) who were fired and blacklisted from jobs; now, it is nazis (actual, and, no doubt, eventually alleged) who are fired and blacklisted from jobs.
The problem with your connection between Paine's quote here and the communists in the 40's and 50's is that the communists were actively undermining the freedoms of citizens in the US. The communists then, like the left today, are enemies of freedom. The must be defeated to secure liberty.
The pendulum swings...and will swing back.
As a member of the pendulum club, I would like to say it is more that the pendulum, we, go about our lives while leftists run around trying to tell us what to do and relentlessly try to take our freedom. Eventually you people force us to push you back.
There is no question that the left is more coercive than the right.
If anything will turn a fellow away from Naziism, it's being driven from his home after interacting with a powerful Jewish-owned media company.
At the same time, I've gotten rid of cable tv and mostly quit going to the movies because I don't want to send money to people whose politics I abhor, and if I were looking for a welder in Dayton I'd choose the place that did not employ anybody who thought Hitler was "chill" (wtf).
I'd be interested to see if there's overlap between the NYT commenters who were outraged that this guy was being "normalized" to the ones who were outraged Harvard didn't offer a graduate fellowship to the woman who murdered her four year old child ("Not saying that murder was right, or that the poor child didn't suffer. But", begins one Editor's Pick comment.)
bgates said...
If anything will turn a fellow away from Naziism, it's being driven from his home after interacting with a powerful Jewish-owned media company.
Just to be clear, Pinch Sulzberger is a Presbyterian convert.
Reposted from another thread:
Yiddish proverb: A meshumed iz nit keyn yid und nit keyn goy. = A convert is neither Jew nor Gentile.
Just to be clear, Pinch Sulzberger is a Presbyterian convert.
I thought Jews traditionally went Episcopalian, i e Christian Lite.
"The problem with your connection between Paine's quote here and the communists in the 40's and 50's is that the communists were actively undermining the freedoms of citizens in the US."
How were they doing so? Exactly what did they do that "actively undermin(ed) the freedoms of citizens in the US?"
They had a right to be communists and to be members of the Communist Party. There certainly was no chance they were going to subvert the government or win majorities in major elections.
It was the Right that was the danger in the post-war era, (and had been during WWI, when Americans criticizing our entry into WWI were sent to prison).
Robert Cook:
"It was the Right that was the danger in the post-war era, (and had been during WWI, when Americans criticizing our entry into WWI were sent to prison)."
Did you just define the Wilson Administration as The Right?
This is a point Jonah Goldberg keeps making. To the left, when conservatives do something awful, it represents conservatism. When liberals/progressives do something awful, it's an indictment of America.
I'll add: Unless their fellow progressives redefine them successfully. Hey, Wilson was a lefty and a vicious segregationist? Well, in that regard he was on the right....
Not to put words in your mouth.
I thought Presb. You could look it up. You might be right.
Presbyterian or not, I doubt Nazis will split hairs over it.
So, the totalitarian left claims another scalp.
Apparently they are learning nothing - absolutely nothing - from all the sexual harassment bombshells, and how the rules they've been enforcing on everybody else are now coming back on them.
Robert Cook said...
"The problem with your connection between Paine's quote here and the communists in the 40's and 50's is that the communists were actively undermining the freedoms of citizens in the US."
How were they doing so? Exactly what did they do that "actively undermin(ed) the freedoms of citizens in the US?"
One gave Stalin our Yalta negotiating positions which allowed him to insist on dominating Eastern Europe. But why worry about the subjugation of hundreds of millions of people for most of a century? After all note in his carefully worded phrasing these aren't American citizens.
Others stole the plans to nuclear weapons and gave them to the Soviets. Their having the bomb changed the balance of power in Asia, which convinced the North Koreans we wouldn't risk intervening if they invaded the south. Whoops those 35 thousand dead were citizens. But they weren't in the US. What luck he parsed language in just exactly the right way.
The average communist tried to convince Americans government control of the economy was preferable to economic freedom just as Cook continues to do today.
One gave Stalin our Yalta negotiating positions which allowed him to insist on dominating Eastern Europe. But why worry about the subjugation of hundreds of millions of people for most of a century? After all note in his carefully worded phrasing these aren't American citizens.
Too late. Once the Russians prevailed at Stalingrad, the fate of Eastern Europe was over. The Russians just pushed the Germans back whence they came, all the way back to Berlin. What were the Soviets supposed to do, retreat to Belarus?
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