A comment on an Instapundit post:
ANN ALTHOUSE ON MARK KLEIMAN: Classic liberal manipulation: Creating the fear that you will be thought of as uncaring. “And that is how women are disciplined into insignificance.”
The thing is, the more they do this, the less people care — even about being thought of as uncaring.
पोस्ट्स
१३० टिप्पण्या:
Hey, cool, man.
Meh. I think it's just him/her. I don't comment much beyond the plants but there are several commenters here that have been very insightful and informative.
I couldn't follow the complaint but was multitasking at the time.
Something about women and men and disparaging.
So look for the operation of grudges, suspicions, fears, needs, desires and nacrissistic posturing.
The trick is to domesticate them.
Is it just me...
No, it is not just you. There are millions of people suffering from the same condition.
( Although I will say there are probably a lot of comments that make no sense to a first time/infrequent reader, as they allude to previous discussions, running gags, or ongoing conflicts amongst regular commenters. )
That probably is what makes marriage uniquely man/woman.
rhhardin said...
That probably is what makes marriage uniquely man/woman.
Well, that and a functioning dictionary...
Long term commenters can reference things that go back years, and there is a vast web of inside jokes and such. People like Laslo or Crack Emcee raise an eyebrow at first, then just become part of the way threads go, and everyone rolls with it.
I think the same thing happens to every long term group of commenters. They're carrying on a long term conversation that you can only get if you've been a part of it. So if you only see the comments on This Particular Post, it seems like everyone is spouting useless irrelevancies. But you see that happen with any great commenting community, like AV Club, etc.
He should do like I do, and just skip over Ritmo's stuff.
On caring: Caring is as caring does. All the rest is pretty useless. Don't tell me you care - send a check, make me drink, or mow my lawn. That would impress me big league, and I'll tell people about it, and you will be widely loved and respected.
Well, it was posted late in the day, and we know how those later in the day commenters can be...
"Meh. I think it's just him/her. I don't comment much beyond the plants but there are several commenters here that have been very insightful and informative."
The plants?
You're making me paranoid.
You don't have to be a stoner to spout nonsense.
Shhhhh, she can't see the plants from her side.
Guilty.
Op! He nailed me! A nonsensical stoner.
Jigs up I guess.
Without a reference to a specific comment(s) it's difficult to respond to that. It's just a blanket way of insulting a bunch of people without having to make an actual argument. I really dislike those sorts of comments. I like it when people actually make arguments and, you know, use their brains or whatever... man... this is good #@%^
I thought most Instapundit comments were made without reading the original reference - a reflexive knee-jerk comment was typical of this Instapundit comment thread. Actually, I'm very unimpressed with Instapundit commenters based upon this thread.
Well..I just added some sense to that post/those comments. But sad to see here this being doubled down upon.
Grrrrrll power or whatevah...
On advice of counsel . . .
Dude, pass the Doritos.
This is particularly effective used against women.
I comment at Insty, but I don't regard his commentariat very highly.
I'll be stuck at LAX for 7 hours on Wednesday. I'd love to come over and mow your lawn.
Don't tell me you care - send a check
Wire transfers are faster, but the Government knows about them quicker.
I prefer a suitcase full of well-used $100s, left in the Cemetery behind the Confederate Shrine. Then you slowly spend them, or make a modest number of deposits.
I thought most Instapundit comments were made without reading the original referencE
You got that right! (To be fair, that's true of most comments everywhere, including here.)
I replied to Kleiman and he blocked me. I didn't even call him an asshole, just kind of stated the obvious, which seems to be outside his narrow thinking limits.
Nonsensical is a high standard.
Gnomic would have been better.
My only complaint with the original post is this line: we should be afraid that if we don't merge our identity with whatever the liberal line happens to be, she should have added "that day."
I just need a few beers in the morning to steady my nerves before posting. They make it sound like that's a bad thing.
Shall I comment on Althouse about a comment on Instapundit about comments on Althouse? Or should I comment on Althouse about comments on Althouse about the comments on Instapundit? Or should I comment on Instapundit about the comments on Althouse about . . . .
Oh fuck it!
Food fight! Or clique bait.
"I just need a few beers in the morning to steady my nerves before posting."
Try having a few more at lunch to keep the mind nimble. After all, beer is not just for breakfast anymore.
MadisonMan said...
"Don't tell me you care - send a check
Wire transfers are faster, but the Government knows about them quicker.
I prefer a suitcase full of well-used $100s, left in the Cemetery behind the Confederate Shrine. Then you slowly spend them, or make a modest number of deposits."
Do like I do, spend the cash only on groceries, nights out and the illegals who do my landscaping. Never on utilities, payments to a bank for any kind, nothing that leaves a paper or digital trail. Shoe boxes are OK at first, bankers' boxes can work, but I suggest a safe in the basement so your wife and kids don't rip you off.
@Godfather, comment on it at JustOneMinute. Just pick a random post--it's okay.
Not to brag since I only comment here and at the WSJ: the level of thoughtful comment here (other than a few who shall not be named) is far and away better than any other that I read. Even in the Journal you can't get far in a news article comment section before the trolls show up and ruin it; the opinion section is better - the trolls apparently aren't paid to read the opinions. I learn a lot here because I am often forced to do research in order to get into the conversation. Many comment arouse my curiosity and I go wandering off looking for the answers.
Illegitmi non carborundum, Ann!
I second MikeR's comment.
Everything's cool, man. Be cool.
Yup, stoner here.
Have another hit of blog
I resemble that remark.
Inga lives in my head, man.
sodal ye said...
Yup, stoner here.
Don't bogart that joint, my friend,
Pass it over to me..
Jets and Sharks.
I am Laslo.
She had three posts up on some blog fight
So I made twelve comments by nine AM
And I was high as a kite ....on each one of them
Its a world full of Rocket Mans, now.
I do have to say that when certain trolls show up here they are able to almost completely hijack the thread, ruining it for all but the troll and his gleeful corespondents.
Blogger FullMoon said...
Don't bogart that joint, my friend,
Pass it over to me..
...
I'd be most happy to, but I don't roll. I have two bongs, one a magnificent indigenous frog carving (Mr. Frog) and the other a modified glass sculpture (Mr. White)
OK, OK. from now on all of our comments will have a beginning, a middle, and an end with thematic consistancy and long footnotes. High Standards must be our only standard. We can do it for the children and the children's children.
No, they aren't nonsensical stoners, they are nonsensical Trump sycophants.
"Is it just me, or are the comments under Althouse's post nonsensical?It's like a bunch of stoners waxing profound without the ability to complete a thought. Not that there's anything wrong with that."
Hey, I resemeble, er, resent that remark!
The thing is, the more they do this, the less people care — even about being thought of as nonsensical.
Oh no they di-in't!
The plants?
You're making me paranoid.
Don't worry your precious lady-head about it; have some junk food/snacks and you'll feel better.
But how did they know I commented from my black-lit basement with numerous old band posters up on the wall and a towel stuffed under the door? How did they know?!
"No, they aren't nonsensical stoners, they are nonsensical Trump sycophants."
I comment at both places and I'm hardly a NTS, although I like more and more what he's doing. Maybe I'm just a FOT.
I think I'll head over to the Comic Curmudgeon. Now there's thoughtful stoner commentary.
Henry said...Nonsensical is a high standard.
"Better than nonsense is a high standard."
The left care about power, obtaining it - illegally and thru corruption if necessary.
Could "Not that there's anything wrong with that" be an Althousiana = gay friendly dog whistle?
"After all, beer is not just for breakfast anymore."
On the Althouse blog it's always 5:00 PM.
Court room sketch of Weiner weeping into a tissue.
https://mobile.twitter.com/nicolefuller/status/912332492501286917
So i'm not a homophobic, racist, Christian anti-feminist, Trump supporter. I'm a stoner. OK. Maybe later I'll be an emo or emu or whatever. I like kiwis, so there's that. I'll get a kiwi head and wear it when I post and see if people can tell when it's on.
""Is it just me, or are the comments under Althouse's post nonsensical?""
You had to have been there.
It's like a bunch of stoners waxing profound without the ability to complete a thought.
I take offense to that; I'm not a stoner, even if I'm occasionally unable to complete a
"Care": The new c-word.
That's from an Instapundit commenter?
Oh, they're just jealous!
Some commenters carry on commenting to each other across other posts, so if you read them and don't know the contenx you are screwed.
Get those sons of birches off the blog ;)
"It's like a bunch of stoners waxing profound without the ability to complete a thought.
The precise term of art that describes your commenters is dopey, from dope, “a recreational drug such as marijuana.” Not that there's anything wrong with that.
FTR,
Is that person saying that pot and nonsense are bad?
Anywho, I'll assume that all of his/her comment (incl Seinfeld hack) is being offered up ironically. IOW, just fitting in. Using tropes to mock tropes. Like: 'Hey Althouse, look at me sound like an entry-level boilerplate factory custodial engineer, and now I'll never get x minutes back because of the comment Nazis,............'
Well done.
"look at me sound like an entry-level boilerplate factory custodial engineer"
Actually I have known quite a few facilities engineers.
Every plant and system has them, or someone in the role.
You damn well better listen to them.
It does not pay to shut your ears to people doing the work, or overseeing infrastructure.
Ivory-tower-itis is a huge risk.
Yeah, well, that's your opinion.
It's just you.
We like our little commentariat.
I prefer the term "asensical" when I think of the Althouse comment section.
Asensical thinking is a sign of genius.
Hopefully the Insty commenter will hang around to admire the earnestness w/ which Buw pretends to not grasp the meaning of 'boilerplate' in its proper context. Being deliberately obtuse is fun.
Take notes.
Althouse has certainly fostered a community of lovable weirdos.
"It's like a bunch of stoners waxing profound without the ability to complete a thought. Not that there's anything wrong with that."
I don't need drugs to perform poorly.
I also filter out people I talk to based on having to help them keep up with a conversation. On cue:
Unknown said...
No, they aren't nonsensical stoners, they are nonsensical Trump sycophants.
There are just too many stupid people in the world. Mockery is all they get now.
I am Laslo.
"It's like a bunch of stoners waxing profound without the ability to complete a thought..."
Nah, just Ritmo.
Nonsensical. Flights of whimsical.
I still think that "go Plan yourself" would be a disproportionate reaction to the transgression. Perhaps go ... Oh, never mind. Another Puff from the Hallucinating Dragon, perhaps?
Yes, Althouse is Pro-Choice, but she's our Pro-Choice. As a pragmatic matter, there is a threshold. Drags on Puffs from the Hallucinating Dragon is one... or perhaps it's the Stork. Sometimes there is "=".
It's called projection.
I've read Instapundit for a wee bit longer than Althouse and both since soon after Althouse started. The quality of comments has declined over the years, though it's been worse on Instapundit. A dogma of sorts has risen on both, starting especially with Obama (where you must toe the line of being against him or be accused of all sorts of motives and thought crimes. Now, you must toe the line of being for Trump or the same result.) Regardless, a free flow of ideas is being stomped out.
Instapundit started out more libertarian than it is now and Althouse seemed to be more liberal, or at least classically liberal, than it is now. One thing I think hurt Instapundit is when Glenn added full-time guest commenters, a few of whom are quite strident in their opinions.
I think both reflect the general political polarization in the country.
Hoodlum Doodlum wrote: "Better than nonsense is a high standard."
You're right. I shouldn't have gone by memory. Though I would still keep the word "nonsensical" in there for the comicality of it.
Disqus comment threads (and FB-based ones) are almost always stupid.
This is so circularly referential, I can't even follow it. Or maybe I'm stoned. Something...
I been visiting Instapundit and Althouse since probably 2007 or 2008. I seem to recall that for the longest time Instapundit had comments disabled (not sure why). It was only maybe a couple of years ago that Glen (re?) enabled them. It may have been around the time he officially went under the PJ Media umbrella, I can't recall.
At any rate, I'm not a big fan of Disqus either, so I tend not to view or post comments over there.
Regardless, a free flow of ideas is being stomped out.
Exactly how, Joe? Are attempts to draw out commenters on their ideas some form of censorship, or is it something else?
PB&J,
I am obtuse even when drunk or unconscious.
And there are boilerplate factories - go see your local rolling mill, if you have one.
http://www.evrazna.com/LocationsFacilities/OregonSteel/RollingMill/tabid/155/Default.asp
Just keeping it really real.
It's always "free speech for me but
Actually, with the help of the insights of a couple of commenters here, I think I can summarize Ritmo's comments to riffs on a single trope: "You all resent me and people like me because we are smarter than you. We should have dominion over you!"
Peanut Butter can be summarized thus: "You all resent me and people like me because we are better than you. We should make the rules and you should go back to Nascar and moonshining."
There is a subtle difference.
It's always "free speech for me but
See, now that's a complete thought. A minimalist comment worthy of William Carlos Williams or Ezra Pound.
My favorite Althouse trope hasn't appeared in a while though "All of the assholes are on the other side!"
"It's like a bunch of stoners waxing profound without the ability to complete a thought."
"That little girl rolls a real tight jay."
"There are just too many stupid people in the world. Mockery is all they get now."
Sez one of the stupid Trump sycophants I just mocked.
N.n. says: Yes, Althouse is Pro-Choice, but she's our Pro-Choice.
Just as Cookie is our resident Commie. He's not a troll. He's actually quite likeable.
I just want to say for the record: I am not a plant.
BTW, Tim's recap has gotta be really confusing to any of the Insty folks who drop in.
Cool.
@tim, In years past both Instapundit and Althouse would be more cynical about Trump. Now, attempt to question the dogma of Trump and you get shouted down. It's far worse on Instapundit, but also happens here.
This is nothing new. For a while I visited a very interesting blog. However, the comments there were soon dominated by a small group who accused anyone who didn't agree with their Ayn Rand philosophy of being extreme left wingers. The accusation started quite tame and even humorous but grew to be so vulgar that soon only the aforementioned group was left and the blog folded.
(I actually find this phenomenon interesting, especially since the attendant dogma isn't always predictable. Why does something become taboo?)
Sez one of the stupid Trump sycophants I just mocked
Is that what happened? Bless your heart.
FTR, the 'unknown' folks do get me a bit confused from time to time.
It's all good.
The sock puppetry was annoying. Not sure if that's gone away.
I miss Betamax.
Chuck is hit and miss. The viotrol against him sometimes is a bit much. As is his anti Trumpiness.
I will comment on plants.
Each of the past couple years I've planted Night-Scented Stock, Matthiola longipetala, and it's never done squat. So I'm giving up on it.
I had it one year, 10+ years ago, and it thrived and produced a wonderful night-time perfume. Or maybe 10+ years ago I planted Zaluzianskya capensis, aka Night Phlox.
Now, attempt to question the dogma of Trump and you get shouted down.
Nobody can actually shout anybody down on this blog. I agree that on Disqus, you would often see left wing trolls comment every couple of seconds until comments were buried pages deep, but that doesn't happen here. You voice gets heard. Whether it gets respected or not is another matter.
"Nonsensical?"
Fish, I say to that. Fish and anthracite!
Go ahead and question the "dogma of Trump." I would love to hear it. You can expect, though, that you may be questioned, or perceived flaws in your logic may be pointed out. You won't be "shouted down" you will likely be engaged by many commenters, or amplified.
It's so weird that now we are pegged as enthusiastic Trumpers. Remember, back when, during the primaries & the election, who here was the enthusiastic Trumper?
Mick, of "the unconstitutional usurper" fame.
The rest of us? Meh, but we loathed Hillary with a passion.
Now, I guess we're dogmatic Trumpers because we don't see him as a simultaneously incompetent & evil mashup of Stalin, Hitler, & Attila the Hun.
Differing opinions can definitely find a place here, though they need to be thoughtful and coherent (consistent). Indeed, there's a variety of opinions on any given topic. When people come in trying to paint with broad strokes and using poor logic or attempting rhetorical manipulation, it tends to flatten out the differences in various positions into more concrete, bland positions. If progressives would stop indulging in hyperbole and getting the vapors on every issue, they'd probably see a lot more willingness to debate the actual issues. I am far, far from being a Trump fan, and indeed hate sometimes trying to defend or explain him. But I see more danger in progressive totalitarianism and embraced corruption, as they intentionally misrepresent other citizens. I hate that Hillary and the current progressive discourse regime puts me in a position where I seem like I like Trump, just because I seek honest discussion about pressing issues.
The debate over the statuary showed there's diversity of opinions here, for instance, and I didn't feel shouted down, and I suspect Freeman didn't feel intimidated. Honestly held opinions can be expressed in rigorous discussion. Hyperbole and power-driven rhetoric, however, uses language of suppression in order to intimidate. Which is horrible, because there really are people and places that free speech is suppressed, on both sides of the political aisle.
YH, tradguy has always been an enthusiastically Trumparian too.
No monkeyshines!
Enough!
Behave yourselves, I say!
@Paddy,
tradguy has always been an enthusiastically Trumparian too.
True dat! I guess I just have a higher tolerance for reading posts with "usurper" conspiracies than anti-Catholic ones.
I'm sure that my memory has leaks & I've forgotten some other poor soul who will soon be on board to remind us "What about meeeeeeeeeee? I was Trumpy when Trumpy wasn't cool!".
"I was Trumpy when Trumpy wasn't cool!"."
Being a Trumpy was never cool.
It's one thing to blanketly declare that anyone who isn't an enthusiastic Trump supporter seems to be shouted down around here, but it'd be nice to have some clear examples of that. Personally I can say there doesn't appear to be a shortage of Trump criticism, as well as criticism of that criticism, and criticism of the criticism of the criticism and on and on. What usually see around here are pretty thoughtful discussion on Trump and his doings, for the most part anyway.
I can also say with a high degree of confidence that personally I was very critical of Trump during the election. Anyone who bothers to dig up my posts from that time period can plainly see that I was no fan of the guy. I'll admit that since the election I've toned down my harsher critiques of the guy because he (for the most part) hasn't done anything I find extremely objectionable. I mean... sure, there's the occasional silly/provocative Tweet, which I can forgive him for since they seem to piss off all the right people, forcing them to reveal their uglier sides and the irrational underpinnings of their arguments. He's extremely atypical for a US President, which took me a while to get used to. But I've gradually sort of accepted him warts and all.
As a semi-lurker who isn't always in on the jokes, I don't find it particularly difficult to keep up; the instapundit reader who put in a modest effort could probably do so as well.
And I do very much appreciate everyone's dedication to spelling and punctuation. It's the little things!
Let us not forget that our gracious schoolmarm hostess has also been known to take deep and disorienting bong hits. The more notable bong hit of the last decade was not, as some here think, her actual voting for that slick black presidential candidate, but the actual hallucination of seeing the "Nig" in pajamas in the 3AM phone call. Not sure if she has ever recovered her unbonged head after that. Among other things it compels her to read the WAPO and the NYETimes compulsively.
@funsize,
And I do very much appreciate everyone's dedication to spelling and punctuation. It's the little things!
Yur Wellcum;!
Paddy O said...
The debate over the statuary showed there's diversity of opinions here, for instance, and I didn't feel shouted down, and I suspect Freeman didn't feel intimidated. Honestly held opinions can be expressed in rigorous discussion.
The discussion of the destruction of history was an interesting one. I think it hinged on the idea of whether we were honoring the confederate cause with the statue or that we were remembering that a bunch of democrats were fighting to keep their slaves. I understand taking them down. But I disagree.
Hyperbole and power-driven rhetoric, however, uses language of suppression in order to intimidate. Which is horrible, because there really are people and places that free speech is suppressed, on both sides of the political aisle.
Rhetorical despotism. The person attempts to make the disagreement a moral issue and dehumanize anyone that disagrees with them. Not only do you negate the argument you get to persecute the opponent afterwards.
Racist!
Wax on, wax off, man. Wax on, wax off.
"If progressives would stop indulging in hyperbole and getting the vapors on every issue, they'd probably see a lot more willingness to debate the actual issues."
It's not just progressives. I think there is a tendency of any group to demand a higher standard of argument from critics than from supporters. (Saw this constantly in the religion of my birth. Having left that religion, I now get annoyed at the critics for doing exactly the same thing!)
I'm Straight (Jonathan Richman & the Modern Lovers)
So this phone call today concerns
Hippie Johnny
He's always stoned, he's never straight
I saw you today, you know, walk by with hippie Johnny
Look, I had to call up and say, I want to take his place
See he's stoned, hippie Johnny
Now get this, I'm straight
And I wanna take his place
I am Laslo.
Glenn Reynolds, he keeps emailing me.
"Hey Laslo, have you thought of coming by Instapundit and laying down some comments? You know -- shake things up a bit?"
Uh, Sorry Glenn, I like the Althouse World.
"Laslo, I'm not asking you to leave Althouse. I just thought maybe you could give me a little love on the side."
Yeah. But I get off on Althouse posts. I need more than a sentence and a link to get going, you know?
"I get that. But it doesn't even have to be about the post. You could just talk about having anal sex with Scarlett Johansson -- that kinda stuff."
You'd let me comment about having anal sex with Scarlett Johansson at Instapundit?
"Well, maybe you can leave out the anal sex. I think that might make some of my readers squeamish."
So just talk about Scarlett Johansson sucking my cock, then?"
"Uh, maybe you could just talk about Scarlett's boobs. Boobs are okay at Instapundit."
Then I can talk about ejaculating on her boobs, right?
"Sorry, no, Laslo. There is no ejaculating at Instapundit. But I'm sure there are plenty of things you can write here -- I'm edgy! Remember 'puppy blenders'?"
Uh, so I can make jokes about animal abuse, but not about sex?
"That's pretty much it, Laslo."
It's mighty generous of you, Glenn, but I think I'm good where I am...
I am Laslo.
Trump is the Andy Jackson of Television and Internet Skills . He uses them to literally remove opposition communicators. That kind of leadership deserves support from Americans.
I pity the NFL Billionaires Club.
YoungHegelian said...
I'm sure that my memory has leaks & I've forgotten some other poor soul who will soon be on board to remind us "What about meeeeeeeeeee? I was Trumpy when Trumpy wasn't cool!".
Meh. I am happy enough that Trump won.
I was never sure if Mick was a moby troll sometimes. He disappeared after the election and didn't go on a victory tour like I would have expected. Or I missed it. Leads me to think he was a moby.
I think there is a tendency of any group to demand a higher standard of argument from critics than from supporters.
You obviously have a working computer Joe, why not demand a higher standard of argument from Trump supporters? Is anything stopping you?
I was never sure if Mick was a moby troll sometimes.
People claimed he was a long-time commenter, but I don't remember him particularly. I think he was a Moby who was probably more shocked than us when his character called the election better than anybody else.
"I pity the NFL Billionaires Club."
Right. Sucks to be them.
Some of us are plants.
Some of us are potted plants.
Maybe we just need help containing the experience, both during the trip, for the purposes of safety, and afterward, 'so it’s not merely a one-off mystical experience, but actually something you could build a life around.'"
Mick did do a victory lap or two, and well earned IMO. He only had one or two other notes though, mostly about Obama who will never be President again. Just like Hillary, except that she will never be President at all.
Some commenters carry on commenting to each other across other posts, so if you read them and don't know the contenx you are screwed.
And then there's narciso, whose comments are cobvolutex.
I didn't notice until recently that Insty even had comments.
I've never smoked a cigarette of any type.
"Regardless, a free flow of ideas is being stomped out."
I can't help it if the quality of lefties has declined.
Just as Cookie is our resident Commie. He's not a troll. He's actually quite likeable.
Cookie is probably the most principled leftist I've ever encountered. I agree with almost none of his conclusions, but I always take the time to carefully read what he says.
I posted the original question on Instapundit under my nomme de blog Clam B4 the Storm. Hope y'all took it as the gentle poke I meant for it to be.
And if you don't? I can live with it.
But thanks for including me in your party. "I'm so glad we had this time together. Just to have a laugh or sing a song..."
I saw that stoner comment and thought: Hey now, I only know of a few regular stoners that comment - myself and a handful of others. Being very "stoner aware" I call BULLSHIT.
You're welcome for making it true.
Well, making it look true anyway.
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