“Men are learning to have false ideas about masculinity, and women are also learning to be submissive. It is happening in the same household, Pandey said. “Everyone’s out to make it look like there’s something inherently wrong with [rapists]. But they are a part of our own society. They are not aliens who’ve been brought in from another world.”
Pandey said that hearing some of the rapists talk reminded her of commonly held beliefs that were often parroted even in her own household. “After you speak to [the rapists], it shocks you — these men have the power to make you feel sorry for them. As a woman that’s not how you expect to feel. I would almost forget that these men have been convicted of raping a woman. In my experience a lot of these men don’t realize that what they've done is rape. They don't understand what consent is. Then you ask yourself, is it just these men? Or is the vast majority of men?”
११ सप्टेंबर, २०१७
"As an experiment, I phoned a few friends and asked: what does your mom call your dad? The answers I got were things like ‘are you listening,’ ‘listen,’ or ‘father of Ronak’ (the child’s name).'"
From "A woman interviewed 100 convicted rapists in India. This is what she learned" (WaPo). The quote is from Madhumita Pandey, the woman who did the interviewing. The quote refers to the assertion that, in India, "Many women won’t even use their husbands’ first names."
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६१ टिप्पण्या:
Kinda tone-deaf to not see "listen" is a joke, isn't it?
Then you ask yourself, it is just this article? Or is it the vast majority of the Wahington Post?
"Then you ask yourself, is it just these men? Or is the vast majority of men?”
Of course that is what you ask yourself.
If you want to believe most men have the mindsets of rapists.
Wide brush, painting into a corner.
I am Laslo.
"They don't understand what consent is. Then you ask yourself, is it just these men? Or is the vast majority of men?”" Then you ask yourself, is it just these "journalists," casting aspersions on exploited poor people of color? Everyone knows cultures are equal, as UPenn profs have explained so clearly, and subaltern cultures are more equal than others.
Ken B said...
Kinda tone-deaf to not see "listen" is a joke, isn't it?
Bill Crosby had a stand-up routine where he thought his name was "Goddammit" until he was 12 - "Goddammit, clean up your room!"
Fernandinande said...
Bill Crosby had a stand-up routine where he thought his name was "Goddammit" until he was 12 - "Goddammit, clean up your room!"
Of course, Cosby might not be the best example to bring up regarding not understanding consent. Then again, maybe he is.
Of course ALL men are rapists. Just like ALL white people are racists.
Easy peasy...
"men don’t realize that what they've done is rape. They don't understand what consent is. Then you ask yourself, is it just these men? Or is the vast majority of men"
Women and the media don't realize how psychopathically obsessed they are by gender politics. They have no idea how corrupt and twisted their view of 'maleness' is. Then you ask yourself, is it just this 'Indian journalist' woman in the WAPO? Or is it the vast majority of Women and Media?"
This is getting to be like the old gameshow "Password".
Person giving the clue, drawing out the word: "Meeeeeeeeennnnnn?"
The contestant: Rapist?
Ding Ding Ding.
I am Laslo.
I have never heard my mother in law say the name of my father in law. This is a cultural thing throughout India. So, it is not weird that men who are rapists are referred to in this way--all husbands are addressed like that.
Not hip to the rape scene so I can't speak to that, but the missus calls me by our last name unless we're in company. Then she uses my first name, which is a little odd now that I think about it.
34,651 women reported being raped in 2015
That sounds pretty low.
Yes, "police-recorded" crime statistics have problems, especially in third-world countries, but FWIW:
"Rape at the national level, number of police-recorded offenses"
Rate per 100,000 population
South Africa 132.4
Botswana 92.9
Sweden 63.5
Belgium 27.9
U.S. 27.3
Latvia 3.5
India 1.8
Equal and complementary is a hard principle to reconcile. Many cultures take one of two extreme liberal (i.e. divergent) approaches and either adopt a pro-choice (a.k.a. "selective-child") or one-child religious philosophy.
If you're living in close quarters with someone, do you continually say their name when you talk to them? I don't do that with my husband. I usually say the equivalent of listen, e.g., "Can I interrupt you?" "Are you in the middle of something?" And that's how he talks to me. It's not about subservience or weirdness about names.
"Jimmy, what is this animal"?
(silence)
"Well, Jimmy, what does your mother call your father?"
"Oh - that's a louse?"
My wife usually says something like "can you reach that plate for me?" And I do. Because something good is going on the plate. And I'm quite a bit taller than my wife.
My wife calls me "Mr. "
I also got "Obey" in the vows.
Just sayin'
That is "Mr. lastname"
1) I wonder if 20% of women in India who go to college are raped?
2) Am I the only one who thinks that the millions of missing women who were aborted may have something to do with the rape crisis in India?
I am glad to see that political correctness has not gone so far that we cannot say what we all know to be true; namely, that there are biological differences between men and women that have far-reaching behavioral consequences. Right, Google?
"I also got "Obey" in the vows."
She'll still get the house and the kids if she divorces you.
If my wife uses my name in private, I know I'm in for it.
We always refer to each other by our "pet" names, except in formal public circumstances.
Hubs and I have the same first name (at least the same shortened form, which we both have always gone by) so it's a bit odd to call each other that. Ironically though, we use the same pet name for each other. I'm with Althouse...usually you don't use the name of a person with whom you share your home and much of your time. Even with my children, names are usually used only when multiple people are in the room and there's a need to distinguish.
I know one mom (who's kind of an odd bird overall) who constantly uses her children's names when she's speaking to them....like every sentence, repeatedly.) It's really jarring to me.
Mr. Lastname is the weirdest appellation of which I have ever read.
:-)
Names that husbands and wives call each other, affectionately, in my experience: Love, Dear, and Baby. This represents the majority of such names.
Other names are not to be typed, when less than affection is communicated.
I remember reading an article years ago by an American female criminal psychologist, who, after interviewing a sizable number of rapists for her research, was astounded by how "normal" they appeared.
"I know one mom (who's kind of an odd bird overall) who constantly uses her children's names when she's speaking to them....like every sentence, repeatedly.) It's really jarring to me."
I think it's how most of us are with pets. When Zeus is around, I find I say his name (or a version of it) for almost no reason, if I'm just walking by. If he were a person, I'd more likely to say: "Hi," "What's up?," "What are you doing?," "Hey, guess what...," etc. It's not hard to think about why that is.
It's not hard to think about why that is.
I call the cats by name because they respond to it.
Sure, Althouse. Animals need that one name to know you are referencing them in particular. Humans are able to discern.
People use repetition for babies and the demented, too.
Blogger YoungHegelian said...
"I remember reading an article years ago by an American female criminal psychologist, who, after interviewing a sizable number of rapists for her research, was astounded by how "normal" they appeared...."
She never read 'The Banality of Evil'? Some psychologist.
Althouse's headline is about the only un-creepy thing in that article.
I'd like to know how different they'd have talked if she'd been a man.
If gender is a social construct, then so it rape. It may well be that in Indian culture, it's not rape if it it's your wife. Or someone of a lower caste. To import Western ideas of rape and body autonomy to India is another form of colonialism.
/tongue-in-cheek
What a sloppy writer too. What you *call* your spouse is not what your say to them.
art.the.nerd,
"/tongue-in-cheek" won't protect you. Tongues and cheeks are social constructs.
I think one reason you don't call your spouse anything is that this person is attentive to you and aware of you. You can just start talking to this person who looks up when you walk into the room. Your life is a continuous conversation. No formalities arise. If you've been apart for awhile, you say "hi" first. If they're not in the room, you might yell "Anybody home?" (even if the only person who could be home is someone who who could be named (it would be weird to yell the person's name I think, unless there was an emergency of some kind)).
""After you speak to [the rapists], it shocks you - these men have the power to make you feel sorry for them. As a woman that's not how you expect to feel. "
Never really gives examples to explain that, Certainly the pedo with the sense of honor isn't one.
You can just start talking to this person who looks up when you walk into the room.
My step-monster's family was like that on the phone, so you had to guess who it was. Another good reason they're dead or estranged.
Walter, I'm guessing they're pathetically dim.
"Over the course of the last three years, I have been able to talk with more than 100 convicted sex offenders. There is one particular story – participant 49 – that I have decided to share."
Indian rapist claims five-year-old victim 'provoked him' in interview with academic studying sexual violence
I always liked it when she calls me "Captain of my heart." She goes by "Prescious."
"I remember reading an article years ago by an American female criminal psychologist, who, after interviewing a sizable number of rapists for her research, was astounded by how "normal" they appeared."
Not really surprising. The desire to have sex is normal. Like the desire to have money. It is taking what you want by force that makes it a crime.
Tank's first name is "Hey."
Tank is not a rapist.
Tank is not his real name.
"....just don't call me late for dinner"
She's making the rounds with this weird combination of "I was surprised at how normal they all seemed. Now let me tell you about the pedo who felt provoked by a 5 year old."
"My step-monster's family was like that on the phone, so you had to guess who it was. Another good reason they're dead or estranged."
What is funny to me is how much a lot of daughters sound like their mothers over the phone, or, since they share mother's, how sisters too can sound alike - alike enough that even loved ones can mistake them. My partner has been mistaken for both her younger sister and her daughter, to comedic effect. In the case of the sister, one of her sister's friends called, and relayed the latest gossip, including the friend's own sexual experiences the night before... And I made the mistake a couple times with her daughter, calling her pet names, etc. At least it wasn't the TMI that would have occurred if I had done like the sister's friend, and talked about last night's sexual experiences (heard about "TMI" quite a bit last week and that daughter and her husband were in town, every time the subject of sex came up).
After almost 20 years, I still, on occasion, mispronounce my partner's name. Partly, it is because most people do, so she doesn't take me to task that often for it, but probably more because I have abbreviated it as one of those pet names I mentioned above. Thinking about the thread here, I realize that I do address her with one of those pet names routinely, even when it is just the two of us together, as is the usual case. Neither of us is that physically demonstrative, and that is how I tend to show affection. She rarely reciprocates. It was weird last week, when her daughter and son-in-law were visiting, actually hearing her use my given name. I think that in normal circumstances, we may go weeks without her using anything for me than the very occasional "you". Mostly, since it is just the two of us, the context is obvious - if one of is speaking it is presumably aimed at the other (unless, of course, one of us is on the phone, and the other doesn't realize it, which can be quite humorous).
I start conversations with my husband using his name. He is becoming hard of hearing and it helps capture his attention. We are at the point that after I say something to him and he doesn't respond I have to run through the possible reasons: he didn't hear me, he is ignoring me, he is concentrating and will respond in a few moments. This irritates my son so much that a few years ago he joked about getting a shock collar for his dad. Now when his dad is annoying him he mimes pushing a button.
Our dogs know our son's name. I can call his name out and the dogs will run and find him.
Luckily my son has never fallen down a well...but if he did we'd be covered.
"They don't understand what consent is. Then you ask yourself, is it just these men? Or is the vast majority of men?”
It's all men, every damn one of us. At least us white ones. When my friends and I get together all we talk about is raping women, then when we're done talking we go out and find a victim - we're usually not choosy so long has she has a vaga. We're animals like that. I'm really suprised that brown skinned Indians think like that, too, because that has to be racist on some level. Besides, I thought Indian men only programmed stuff. Maybe my group should invite one to our next rape fest on the off chance we might learn a new technique that we could employ that would not be considered to be cultural appropriation. Anyway, thank God we men have feminists and socialogists to point out how screwed up we are.
BTW, my wife calls me "Mr Man", which probably doesn't mean anything because she calls the cats "Mr Kitty and Ms Kitty."
BTW, my wife calls me "Mr Man"
--
That's kinda rapey..if you squint your ears. Your wife then is a catalyst for the rape fests.
My grandsons are fascinated about Vikings, Celts and Mongols and I read them stories all the time. One of the things I emphasize to them is the strong role that women had in those warrior-expansionist societies. The proper conclusion to draw from this is that the greatest warriors of history had the balls to live with independent, strong, empowered women. Clearly, south Asia is a rape culture and this girl rape apologist appears to suffer from Stockholm syndrome, likely derived, in part, from indoctrination in modern western feminist theory. Sad
The wife calls me Howie, sweetie, honey and hey asshole.
jaydub said...
BTW, my wife calls me "Mr Man"
She calls me that too!
We have rabbit-based names for each other which I can't put into print, but sometimes I get called "Mr. Man", then I say "He didn't get out of the cockadoodie car!"
It's a laff-riot around here.
Sort of related.
I watched a documentary on Netflix a few nights back. I believe it was called Red Pill. A woman who has been a feminist all her life moves to Hollywood as a teen and begins a B movie acting career. How she is treated pushes her out at around age 22 when she starts making documentaries. She goes to feminist speeches and rallies and one day she hears about this group of men who are for men's rights. I think k they are called MRAs. How they are a bunch of undercover Nazis and Misogynists.
So she decides to do a documentary on them.
I found it very fascinating and enlightening.
She not only interviews a ton of men's rights activists but she also interviews several prominent critics of the groups.
She ends the movie saying she can no longer call herself a feminist.
"rabbit-based names for each other which I can't put into print"
Oh..if we steel ourselves, I bet we can handle that...
My husband is "hon" or "my love." I am generally "babe," or "dear." But I do sometimes use his given name.
My parents were different; they always used given names. Since they also had a gifted African Grey parrot, that made for some interesting scenarios. He'd yell "Norm!" in my mom's voice, or "Linda!" in my dad's. (Usually around dinnertime, naturally.) Once my husband called them and heard Pierre, clear as a bell, shout "Pick up the damn phone!" How many times must he have heard that before learning to repeat it?
But Amy Wax is evil to suggest that Western culture may have advantages over some other cultures.
Rape at the national level, number of police-recorded offenses"
Rate per 100,000 population
South Africa 132.4
Botswana 92.9
Sweden 63.5
Belgium 27.9
U.S. 27.3
Latvia 3.5
India 1.8
Yet campus "rapes" in the USA are widely reported 25,000 per 100,000. For females at least. It's an absurd claim, which has lead to an absurd system responding to it.
MAGA bunny
yeah, Fernandinande when i read about the "rape problem" in india and then read about the rates is South Africa and the USA I kinda think India sounds....prety good.
Thirty two years ago when I met husband, I took to calling him Pepe, and still do. Found out last year--LAST YEAR--that he didn't really like it. I overheard him telling our daughter that when a man loves a woman, if she decides to call him by some weird nickname, he just goes along with it.
Woman interviews 100 thieves. She concludes that thieves have little respect for the property of others.
Woman interviews 100 traitors. She concludes that traitors have little respect for their countries.
Woman interviews 100 rapists. She concludes that all men have little respect for consent.
Someone explain to this woman the concept of a control group.
"Many women won't even use their husband's names"
I heard somewhere that after an Indian couple gets married, they never acknowledge that a piece of clothing belongs to the other, because in India, love means never having to say, "Your sari."
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