I think it might be a useful term as we observe protests that lead to protests and then to other protests. The subject matter of the original protest changes as the protest is met with protest. I'm making a new tag for this phenomenon to help me notice and collect instances of it.
In the case of Colin Kaepernick, you have a quarterback who began protesting by kneeling when the national anthem was played before football games. According to the NYT he was protesting "police brutality and racial oppression." That is, something out in the world troubled him, something most Americans would agree to oppose, and he adopted a protest that took advantage of his position within a specific enterprise, football, something fans love and might want to enjoy in peace, and he aimed his protest at the national anthem, something many or most Americans want to respect and revere.
Kaepernick's protest gained a tremendous amount of attention and other football players joined the simple kneeling-during-the-anthem form of protest, and that led to even more coverage, so that the anthem-playing started to look like a story that was about Kaepernick's protest.
Now, Kaepernick is a free agent and no one is signing him. If that's a protest, it's a silent protest. It may well be that Kaepernick would be signed, but no one wants his anthem-kneeling interfering with the traditional enjoyment of football. On the theory that there is a silent protest going on, there's now a protest of that protest:
The latest demonstration took place on Wednesday in Manhattan when a dozen groups including Justice League NYC and Color of Change rallied in front of N.F.L. headquarters. Several hundred Kaepernick supporters showed up, holding signs and chanting “I’m with Kap.” The event’s speakers took the N.F.L. to task for a lack of racial sensitivity and Kaepernick’s continued unemployment.It's hard to protest what's being done in silence. These protesters have to first convince us that the thing they are protesting is even happening. Stop the silence: "take a stand." But how can the NFL take a stand? If they are ostracizing Kaepernick, why would they openly admit it? The idea seems to be that if the NFL had to take a position, they'd take a pro-Kaepernick position. But even if the NFL did take the position that no player should be discriminated against for his political views and his exercise of free speech (even during the solemn opening ceremony), the snubbing of Kaepernick would continue. No team can be forced to take him. There's never a situation where you can say of any team that without discrimination against Kaepernick's speech, he would be signed.
“First, we are here because we believe Colin Kaepernick deserves a job,” said Symone D. Sanders, the former national press secretary for Bernie Sanders’s presidential campaign. “We also believe that the N.F.L. has been complicit in the ostracization of Colin Kaepernick. And today, it is time for the N.F.L. to take a stand.”
Or I don't know. Maybe you can. The NYT does. It says that "owners and coaches... have twisted themselves in knots defending their decision not to sign Kaepernick" and points out that there are a number of teams that have needed quarterbacks and signed men with less experience and worse records than Kaepernick has.
Part of the protest cascade may be what's happening at the fan level:
Television ratings at every one of the league’s network partners fell last year for the first time, and... some fans said they had stopped watching the N.F.L. because Kaepernick and other players knelt during the anthem.That's another silent protest. How can you protest against that? Well, you could say that the teams that aren't signing Kaepernick are protesting the fans' not-watching-football protest.
A new football season is about to begin, and it looks as though kneeling during the anthem will persist (even without Kaepernick), and the protest that was originally premised on police brutality and racial oppression gains momentum — cascades — by incorporating other subjects of protest, such as the problem of Civil War monuments. There's a confluence of Kaepernick and Charlottesville.
I'm trying to think of other times we've seen cascading like this. The "Free Speech" protests of the 60s cascaded into Vietnam War protests. More recently, here in Wisconsin, we saw the anti-Scott-Walker protests merge with Occupy Wisconsin and Black Lives Matter. But I'm especially interested in how a protest inspires counterprotest that changes the nature of the original protest.
पोस्ट्स
१३२ टिप्पण्या:
First, we are here because we believe Colin Kaepernick deserves a job,
No one deserves a job. You EARN a job. Then you retain the job by performing and being an asset to your employer.
Kaepernick is NOT an asset to the team when your actions cost the organization money and viewership declines. He was given a chance to earn his job/position. He blew it.
Kaepernick’s Protest Cascades Into Protests Over His Job Situation
They are missing a comma after the first Protest, and before Cascades. Nothing more than that. They are comma deficient.
What DBQ said. Football is first and foremost entertainment. You put on the field what will sell tickets and draw the most eyes. If talent was the only criteria for entertainment Hollywood would be a ghost town, or at least have a complete change in population.
It needs a protest cascade hijack. Why are they playing the national anthem at all.
The sort of obedience expected in standing is suitable for military training - everybody for the team - rather than a free citizenry, which ought to consist of individual cynics. If they want me to stand, who wants me to stand and why. Standing is the opposite of patriotism.
They're playing the national anthem to get the crowd to stop milling around and pay attention, originally. It's a trick that has been enforced by self-appointed enforcers, who are still in the ascendency.
Back to the original cascade: everything has to terminate on racism because the racism meme is falling apart. Too many people are thinking it's obviously not true.
Blacks are projecting an anger about a different thing.
The kneeling protest is idiotic too, but it's parasitic on a more original idiocy.
I protest protesting.
Somebody please remind me about the great national wave of protests when no NFL franchise signed Tim Tebow.
The most important thing to know about the situation and sequence of events is that Kaepernick's career was on life support and headed down the loo and then he started protesting.
So, if he's such a good quarterback, where's Kaepernick's CFL contract? Canadians aren't going to be upset he disrespected the US anthem.
It's like I said about Tebow. The CFL is an opportunity to keep in shape and practice, against near-NFL talent (half the league, basically, is ex-NFL), in front of cameras capturing highlight reel footage, while trying to get signed for next year.
That is, if you really are an NFL-caliber quarterback and you really want to play in the NFL.
If you aren't an NFL-caliber player and you want to admit that, well, sure, you can go sit on your ass for a season. But then don't go whine about not being given a chance to play in the NFL if you do. You've demonstrated you don't think you're worth one.
If he were any good, or at least good enough to offset his behavior and, presumably, his locker room attitude, he would have a job. See, Ray Rice vs. Adrian Peterson.
there are a number of teams that have needed quarterbacks and signed men with less experience and worse records than Kaepernick has.
The other quarterbacks have signed for far less money. He is holding out for starter salary.
The protest cascade is going to Dallas where Jerry Jones told his team that anyone who sits or kneels during the anthem is done.
It will be interesting to see what happen. My prediction is a cratering of ESPN and NFL ratings.
Kaepernick declined an option to remain with the 49ers for 12 million/year. Too bad, so sad.
They are not talking about some minimum wage job here. NFL quarterback is multi million contract. Obviously, Dem city team should step in/
The problem with Kaepernick deserves a job is that NFL jobs are a zero sum opportunity.
Kaepernick is not just a below-league-average QB. He is also a QB that has only been successful playing a system that few teams play anymore. His opportunities are very limited.
I understand his desire to protest, but I have no idea why he picked the flag and the anthem. Are there two things more popular for all Americans? He might as well have drowned puppies.
There is just so much wrong packed into so few words:
“First, we are here because we believe Colin Kaepernick deserves a job,” said Symone D. Sanders, the former national press secretary for Bernie Sanders’s presidential campaign. “We also believe that the N.F.L. has been complicit in the ostracization of Colin Kaepernick. And today, it is time for the N.F.L. to take a stand.”
1) NO one "deserves" a job. It isn't yours, it is your employer's. You earn the job.
2) If you all want him to have a job so bad, pool your money and hire him to do something.
3) I get that he wants to play football but he has no right to earn a living at it.
4) There is more to playing football professionally than just being good. The N.F.L. used to know that and used to police the players VERY well. Over time they forget. Allowed thugs to stay and unAmerican (yes, unAmerican) antics to go on. The "fans" have had enough and now ratings are suffering and the N.F.L. is trying to figure out what to do.
5) What do they expect the N.F.L. to do? Draw a team name out of a hat and force that team to pick up this spoiled piece of crap?
6) He had a right to do his "protest" and everyone else has a right to respond. Own it.
Kaepernick reportedly did receive an offer, which he turned down. Consequently what the protesters are demanding is not just that one of the teams offer him a chance to win a roster spot, but at a salary that his lordship finds acceptable.
DBQ scores a touchdown.
NFL franchises are perfectly willing to sign felons, drug abusers and miscreants of all kinds... If they are really great football players.
And other NFL players who have knelt during the National Anthem have faced no repercussions.
Kaepernick's problem is that among NFL quarterbacks in 2016, he had the worst -- by far -- rating for "Clutch points added." He's just not an NFL-grade passer under pressure.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr/_/sort/cwepaPassesCondensed/order/false
"But I'm especially interested in how a protest inspires counterprotest that changes the nature of the original protest."
Abortion comes to mind. It started out as a protest against absolute bans forbidding abortion, depriving women of any control. After the pro-life counter-protests, the original 'protest' changed its name (it was now 'pro-choice,' not pro-abortion) and its goal -- no longer a protest against an absolute ban, it became a demand for an absolute ban (on any restrictions on abortion).
A new football season is about to begin, and it looks as though kneeling during the anthem will persist
And the ratings will continue to decline. Somebody needs to remind the players where the money for their salaries comes from.
The average fan has very little interest in watching over paid, under educated players disrespect the flag.
The ratings will decline in any case because it's over-hyped and narrated by idiots.
I think the "cascade" will affect all the teams with black players demonstrating.
The NFL fans are the segment of the populations least likely to sympathize with these things.
There is no effective way to protest people who don't watch the telly or buy tickets.
A high proportion, or a majority, of their audience and potential audience is on the other side of the political/cultural line.
ESPN/NFL/Owners are between a rock and a much bigger rock.
One out-of-the-box way out of their problem, a palliative really, is to force major corporations to buy many more game tickets (as giveaways presumably), or to provide an online ESPN feed at work. Making football an SJW marker may backfire very badly though.
Kaepernick's problem is that among NFL quarterbacks in 2016, he had the worst -- by far -- rating for "Clutch points added." He's just not an NFL-grade passer under pressure.
Another reason that, if he were serious about playing, he'd be willing to sign on to the CFL. With the longer field and the fewer downs, the CFL structurally demands passing performance from its quarterbacks. Success in the CFL would help counteract that statistic.
I agree that no one should be deprived of a job regardless of their political beliefs or statements. Of course, I also believed that for the people who lost their jobs because of their opposition of gay marriage. The same people who are declaring the right to work for Kaep were all on board for depriving the heretics of jobs. Recant and apologize, live by your own rule, or shut up. Or war!
Kaepernick is an unusual situation in that his skill set has diminished from his elite days to the point that it is not clear he could be the starting quarterback for any team, and, if he did end up the starter, that he would be anything other than one of an interchangeable set of mediocrities. No team wants a backup quarterback that is merely a distraction, nor do they want a bad starting quarterback who seems more interested in his own agenda than actually performing and, more importantly, is unlikely to get any better. There is also the matter that sports are entertainment and entertainers that actively alienate their own audiences tend to find themselves unemployed because they are bad at their jobs.
First, we are here because we believe Colin Kaepernick deserves a job,
From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs. Familiar ring to it
By the way, Kaepernick began his "protest" shortly after he began dating a radical Leftist.
If he really thinks Black lives matter, perhaps he should protest Black men abandoning their children, like his father did.
I'd like to think that protest counter-protest is a form of social negotiation, but it seems the stakes are upped and positions are hardened by the process. That's the opposite of traditional negotiation techniques.
Gahrie said...
A new football season is about to begin, and it looks as though kneeling during the anthem will persist
And the ratings will continue to decline. Somebody needs to remind the players where the money for their salaries comes from.
The average fan has very little interest in watching over paid, under educated players disrespect the flag.
But it is happening to some extent in college football too. I suppose, although I haven't seen it, that it is occurring at the high school level.
It is just a matter of media, social media, and popular expressions. Personally, I just love Ann Althouse's post on this and I think I agree with her entirely. I don't want to see National Anthem protests at football games. I don't want to see any protests at football games, apart from the bogus first down call that Big Ten refs gave to Ohio State last year in the Michigan game that singularly saved OSU's season.
That should have been a national protest.
I heard black lives matter is hiring. If in NY the minimum wage will be 15 an hour too..He's got skilz
“No player should be victimized and discriminated against because of his exercise of free speech — to do so is in violation of his rights under the Constitution and the N.F.L.’s own regulations,” Derrick Johnson, the organization’s interim president and chief executive, said in a letter to the N.F.L. commissioner.
Would he feel the same way if a player had marched on the wrong side in Charlottesville?
Can anybody really be surprised that if a player injects politics into football, then football will react politically?
From Baltimore to Miami to Seattle, teams in need of starting or backup quarterbacks signed players with either little experience or a mixed track record, and had to explain, often awkwardly, why they had passed over Kaepernick, who opted out of his contract with the 49ers in March. The Dolphins even coaxed Jay Cutler out of retirement.
There's no way that Miami could have signed Kaepernick after his comments in support of Fidel Castro, even if he did walk them back a bit later. Is the NYT really that ignorant of Cuban-American politics in Miami?
I don't understand the concern. It's not like the tv announcer was Robert Lee.
Before 2009, teams were in the locker room until after the Anthem. There was no issue.
I wonder what the simplest way to end this drama is? Hmmmm....
As Adam Scott points out, the last thing we want to think about when we tune into a football game is politics.
Kaepernick is a (nearly) 30-year-old running QB with middle-of-the-pack passing skills who won 3 games in the last two seasons.
But the NFL is a very QB-hungry league. With guys like Ryan Fitzpatrick, Joah McCown, and Blake Bortles finding roster spots around the league, Kaepernick could have one too, if that's what he wanted.
On the other hand, if he wants to be a cause célèbre and a woke hero, he can do that, too. He probably just can't do both.
Thought I want to add to my above. Ideally as the cascade spreads to the extremes it opens the middle ground up to centrists. I've not seen an indication this is happening though.
It isn't the kneeling people are really mad about. It is the pig socks.
Other players are kneeling. But other players don't have a girlfriend calling the owners slave owners and hall of fame linebackers uncle toms.
Other players are kneeling. Kaepernick is wearing Che guerva shirts.
It goes farther than just the kneeling.
Have I missed Kaepernick's proposed solution to the racist structural social inequities that keep African-Americans down?
If not, then he is simply another attention whore.
To his credit, he is more successful as an attention whore than he has been as an NFL quarterback. He never could read a defense or check down to secondary receivers very well.
I love my GB Packers, McCarthy does not always coach in the way I prefer, but on this issue he deserves praise.
"“McCarthy said he addresses the anthem and his expectation of proper decorum during it with the players via a preseason presentation.
‘It’s something that I’ve done each and every year here since I’ve been the head coach,” McCarthy said. “We have a PowerPoint presentation that you update (each year), and you always try to deliver the message clearly to the team.
“Our approach has always been to give the history and the understanding of what the national anthem means, and why it’s played before any National Football League game, particularly how (the tradition) started after World War II. I go through the whole history and the importance of what it means to you personally.'”
I don't want to see any protests at football games, apart from the bogus first down call that Big Ten refs gave to Ohio State last year in the Michigan game that singularly saved OSU's season.
From twenty years living in the Detroit area, I learned that the University of Michigan would have had twenty straight perfect seasons in both football and basketball if it weren't for the perfidy of referees, who have an unexplained but universal bias against the Maize & Blue.
Added..."Thompson responded by saying that it’s a “free country” and the players are free to protest how they see fit."
It's a free market...deal with it crybabies
Do not attribute to malice that which is explained by lack of fucking talent.
From twenty years living in the Detroit area, I learned that the University of Michigan would have had twenty straight perfect seasons in both football and basketball if it weren't for the perfidy of referees, who have an unexplained but universal bias against the Maize & Blue.
At least twenty. Prolly moar.
Distraction.
It's the one thing NFL coaches cannot abide. Anything that unnecessarily takes time away from their laser-like focus on winning games is considered abominable,
UNLESS the distraction is outweighed by the player's ability to contribute to winning games. In Kaepernick's case, the scale is much too far weighted on the distraction side.
Too bad, so sad. He can dry his tears with his pig socks and Che' shirt.
"I understand his desire to protest, but I have no idea why he picked the flag and the anthem. Are there two things more popular for all Americans? He might as well have drowned puppies."
Speaking of puppies, Michael Vick has a job with the Chiefs. I guess either he or his parole officer doesn't wnat him to stray too far from Leavenworth.
If people had the right to the jobs they wanted, where would James Damore be right now? Has anyone asked a protester for an opinion contrasting the situations? Maybe the cops in the stadium would be made to feel uncomfortable, if players create a hostile environment and the space wasn't safe for them.
Google has not just a right but an obligation to fire Damore. This case is completely different. Kaepernick is creating a work atmosphere that is hostile to patriotic Americans, and that is a good thing. I hope this clarifies the issue.......l could more readily picture Susan Sarandon protesting the playing of football rather than in protesting Kaepernick's difficulty in getting signed. How many Americans from deprived backgrounds must become brain damaged before a halt is put to this vile sport. This is worse than bear baiting.
I'll tell you about a protest cascade. 15,000 people in Phoenix to support Trump vs. 5,000 whiners.
Kaepernick would have been released by the 49ers BEFORE his protests had they not signed an absurd contract with him. Had he not protested, I doubt any team would have picked him up as a starter.
I feel the protesters are misguided and just looking for one more thing to make noise about. One of the key elements of any NFL team's success is how well the men in the locker room get along. Why would any owner or coach want to invite someone into the locker room who has already signaled that he is a malcontent and more willing to draw attention to himself rather than the team? Actions have consequences.
As the season goes along and a couple of quarterbacks get hurt Kaepernick will probably find a place as a backup. You can bet his contract will contain serious restrictions on his actions. Damone was fired from Google for protesting just as Kaepernick is being"fired" from the NFL.
As a Packer fan who has watched the game for many decades I would like to see the Kapernick issue resolved by his being signed by the Bears as a starter.
His skills clearly fit in with Bear history at QB!
(Running away now since ANGRY Bear fans are way scarier than mere BLM types…)
There's never a situation where you can say of any team that without discrimination against Kaepernick's speech, he would be signed.
Or I don't know. Maybe you can. The NYT does. It says that "owners and coaches... have twisted themselves in knots defending their decision not to sign Kaepernick" and points out that there are a number of teams that have needed quarterbacks and signed men with less experience and worse records than Kaepernick has.
Apply that "logic." I'm a straight guy--I don't have sexual relations with other guys.
That must mean I'm homophobic! If I wasn't I'd bang the occasional guy, wouldn't I? The only reason I don't must be my own hate, my own deplorable homophobia. Why, I'd have to "twist myself into a pretzel" to come up with reasons not to engage in homosexual activity!
The Left is disgusting and you nice centrist people who tolerate the Left should be ashamed of the kind of things you accept.
Mark said...
I wonder what the simplest way to end this drama is? Hmmmm....
8/24/17, 12:20 PM
Easy. Realize that it is a rare privilege to get paid LOTS and LOTS of money to play a game. A difficult game. A game that can have a very short run but a game none the less. Be grateful that you have the God given skills and work ethics to make it and act like a damn adult. Everyone used to know this crap and now a-days you have to explain it two or three time, real slow. Sad.
And I agree with Hardin about this endless playing of the national anthem. It should be limited to very special occasions, not before every baseball, football, and basketball game from the top-pro level down to children's level.
Familiarity does not breed contempt here, it breeds ennui.
I feel the protesters are misguided and just looking for one more thing to make noise about. One of the key elements of any NFL team's success is how well the men in the locker room get along. Why would any owner or coach want to invite someone into the locker room who has already signaled that he is a malcontent and more willing to draw attention to himself rather than the team? Actions have consequences.
As the season goes along and a couple of quarterbacks get hurt Kaepernick will probably find a place as a backup. You can bet his contract will contain serious restrictions on his actions. Damone was fired from Google for protesting just as Kaepernick is being"fired" from the NFL.
1) If a white QB had protested [insert conservative issue] or was holding up a "John 316" sign during the anthem, the NFL and ESPN commissars would've come down on him like a ton of bricks.
2) Accordingly the failure of the NFL to discipline Kap shows they actually approve of his stance - since they don't believe in "free speech" on the football field. Which is why I'm boycotting the NFL.
3) NFL teams are just waiting for the season to start, so they can sign Kap for less money. In any case, Backup QB's don't win championships. They can limit the damage of losing your starting QB, but if he stays healthy, they don't mean much. They're an insurance policy. Teams don't want grief over a backup player.
4) There's no evidence that Kap is in game-shape or has any desire to improve. He seems more interested in social protest.
5) Teams want backup QB's who are young and can develop into good starting QBs. Kap is over the hill. Even if had the motivation, he's not getting any better. The 49ers actually started Gabbert over him last year and only play Kap because Gabbert wasn't progressing.
South Park solved the problem last season by having the announcer say. "Will you please stand, sit or kneel during the playing of our national Anthem".
When people are insulted, and given no means to protest or retaliate, the wound does not disappears. The retaliation takes a different form. Customers no longer shop at that store. People are suddenly too busy to help or attend those who gavevoffense.
The problem for the offender is that there is no clear causal arrow that allows for a reparative dialogue. "Was it something I said?" Is a true cry of despair.
As with Mizzou, so with NFL. Kaepernck's caper was not the only explanation for their box-office beating, it is IMHO a significant contributor. And to Professor A's concept of cascades, yes, I think that his protest acts as a magnet for unrelated resentments. If a fan feels upset by the violence at a free speech rally; or is tired of being called (at a generic level) a racist, that fan will be more likely to switch off the football game when a Kaepernick takes a knee. Culture is not a pile of discrete issues, it is a sea where things mix.
If a preference cascade leads to change or a protest, to what does a protest cascade lead?
I don't have the (unlinkable) OED handy, but in my mind "cascade" implies a growing or strengthening over time/distance, as opposed to a progression (which can be just travelling along a path). Sort of the difference between a reaction a a chain reaction, I guess.
Anyway if that is correct then what's the end state of these protest cascades? Do people actually want a "color revolution" here in the US? Well, do enough people really want that?
I stopped watching NFL Football because the league allowed "hands up don't shoot" idiots to go unpunished. They can go fuck themselves now. I'm out for good.
I used to watched football casually. Then I saw the Will Smith movie "Concussion," expecting to hate the movie. Instead, I was persuaded that we should abandon football as a spectator sport, the insidious injuries to the players are intolerable and not preventable.
I'd like to thank Kaepernick for hastening the demise of the sport and the NFL. Also ESPN.
Keep up the good work.
"...the perfidy of referees, who have an unexplained but universal bias against the Maize & Blue."
God, now we're onto protesting the refs (in college football, yet.) This comment thread is validating Ann's protest cascade in spades. I fear our nation doth protest too much.
Maybe U of M should reconsider its cultural appropriation of that quintessentially Native American color, Maize. I'm triggered every time I hear the term, and I only grew up 25 miles from a reservation: imagine what an actual Redskin would feel.
rcocean said...
1) If a white QB had protested [insert conservative issue] or was holding up a "John 316" sign during the anthem, the NFL and ESPN commissars would've come down on him like a ton of bricks.
But that's the Tebow case, right? As I already alluded up above.
And the NFL didn't come down on Tebow like a ton of bricks. But the shockingly liberal/PC sports media world did, I think we can agree.
It is so true; the NFL protects its image and brand in such a fanatical way, that it is safe to say that while they probably don't like the Kaepernick protests, their sensitivity to progressive causes and political correctness is such that they have determined to accept it. Tacit approval. Arguably, even, some glee that it might be attracting eyeballs to tv screens.
Colin Kaepernick deserves a job,
He lost his job to a lousy backup. no one is going to put up with the circus for a backup - as Tim Tebow showed to the cheers of the overwhelming majority of those supporting Kaepernick today.
Owen said...As with Mizzou, so with NFL. Kaepernck's caper was not the only explanation for their box-office beating, it is IMHO a significant contributor. And to Professor A's concept of cascades, yes, I think that his protest acts as a magnet for unrelated resentments.
Not to worry, Owen: although the NFL's viewership in the US was down 9% last year they're busy now inking a deal to broadcast in China! They'll replace those pesky American eyeballs with new Chinese viewers. Problem solved.
William said...
This is worse than bear baiting.
8/24/17, 12:29 PM
You mean whereas hot young girls go to bars, pick up big hairy guys, take them home, do unspeakable sexual things to them, and then don't call them?
Why would a team hire Kaepernick for 10s of millions when they can get one of Green Bay's excellent back-ups for far less?
the insidious injuries to the players are intolerable and not preventable.
They're preventable... the problem is that the players have gotten too large, too fast and too strong.
"But it is happening to some extent in college football too"
Yes, it worked well for Missouri.
What is most amusing to me is that the same people supporting Kapernick are the ones who oppose all football as "aggressive" and a brain injury risk.
Kaepernick isn't good enough for teams to be willing to upset many of their fans. Ain't hard.
Colin Kaepernick inflicted more economic damage on the NFL and its teams last year than all of the various NFL players arrested for and/or convicted of murder or battering women in the last 20 years combined. And the players do not give a rat's ass.
I enjoy NFL football, and part of the fun is watching this circle-jerk firing squad of multi-million dollar morons shooting at the golden goose in the middle.
“But I'm especially interested in how a protest inspires counterprotest that changes the nature of the original protest.”
Conflict sociologies needn’t be entirely Marxist. Nor Marxist at all.
My personal note taking, when I’m lazy, involves a deliberately fictional and naive Newtonian “Third Law” framework. Just for starters.
I work lazily out from there and upward through impossible Newtonian n-body problems into social chaos. Chaos, not randomness (they’re different states). Pressures real and imagined are keys to these transitions from order to chaos.
Then I follow the pressures beyond chaos into intractable social randomness where pressures make the differences between independent and dependant social variables become trivially distinct (e.g., was Al Haig, really “in charge?”). My private index for mapping both chaos and randomness requires oversimplified Venn’s to map end results that can turn either toward emergent Reigns of Terror or toward surprising emergent - cascades of greater stabilities - like the chucking Articles of Confederation for Constitutionally-something-better.
My private notes hold that the issue isn’t cascades as such. The issue is multiple cascades under variable pressures and with cascades flowing both ways (sorry for the 2d oversimplification) into surprising emergent randomness (protests against order) and into cascades equally into surprising emergent orders (protests against chaos-randomness).
Newton is my lazy-boy chair.
Nash is the hard stuff and can drive one near crazy without getting laid frequently and for no good reason at all.
Imho.
If your brought up in a culture where you are constantly told whatever negative type things that happen are due to racism, and the definition of racism keeps on getting weaker and weaker, and being a hero is standing up to racism this is the why.
What was forgotten is there is another culture that is tired of being labeled as racist, and when respect for the US Flag is seen as racism and celebrated, those of the US Flag respecting culture will probably choose other entertainment. They are looking for entertainment, not being lectured.
ESPN (Disney) deserves what is happening to it. They decided to go fight the culture war, and they will pay the price.
"If people had the right to the jobs they wanted, where would James Damore be right now?"
The diff, in part, about Damore was that his paper was part of an internal policy discussion that was inappropriately and maliciously made public.
What is most amusing to me is that the same people supporting Kapernick are the ones who oppose all football as "aggressive" and a brain injury risk.
This has been a consistent mistake of the Goodell Era. Some people have been against football (and often popular sports generally) as low class for generations. Academia hates it as a power rival in their institutions. Many hate it because people not like them can earn fame and wealth. Whatever the reason they're never going to be bought off by a few kowtows. If they have a chance to destroy you they will.
Goodell's biggest mistake was creating the domestic violence board after the Ray Rice debacle. DV is horrible obviously but creating a secondary adjudication board is absurd. Refer above, there is nothing you could ever do to satisfy them. By creating the board you give both those members and outside groups a hook to criticize everything. The appropriate move is to point out we have a judicial system in this country. Criminal punishments should be decided by that system and our duly elected representatives. If activists believe the punishments delivered are not sufficient they should take it up with those elected representatives. Does IBM have a shadow court system? As a manger am I supposed to monitor my employee's personal lives for crimes? It's absurd.
I haven't deliberately watched an NFL game in three years. I see about one game a year when at someone else's place for deer camp.
It's not that I am boycotting the NFL, I simply have better things to do. And at this point, the list of what is better than the NFL grows longer and longer.
I am an Xer of an age where I seem to be the transition point where people have stopped watching professional sports.
It's really not his play or his protest that is keeping K-neeler out of a job. It's his ratty Angela Davis hairdo.
MadisonMan says: Why would a team hire Kaepernick for 10s of millions when they can get one of Green Bay's excellent back-ups for far less?
Ya'll got both of my favorite college players from last year: Taysom Hill and Jamaal Williams. If you don't keep TH, someone should pick him up, and he'd be both less expensive and far more valuable than Kap.
Kap was benched in favor of a QB with better playing abilities - Blaine Gabbert. Kap does not fit into the schemes any pro teams are running. The read option in which Kap thrived was shutdown by NFL defenses.
Kap was going to be gone from SF. He was going to be released by the 9ers. It would still have cost them money, but they felt it was well worth it. Maybe Kap felt he would look better to another team if he showed a willingness to take one for the team.
Why wasn't Kap fined for the pig socks? Other players have been disciplined for wearing non-approved apparel. Kap wasn't fined. There was a huge backlash from the police tho. Several departments refused to provide security and chaperone team buses to and from games. That, undoubtedly, caught owner's attention.
Kap put himself in the position he is in. Free speech does not mean lack of consequences.
There aren't many people who single-handedly inflict serious monetary harm on an industry.
Kneely-boy is one of them.
Maybe I'll watch the Super Bowl, but for the rest I'll "take a knee".
Once again Chuck and I are in agreement, this time about the refs in the Michigan/Ohio State game last year! Anyone who viewed the game, and especially the bogus first down call would agree. Even The Big Ten itself admitted officiating errors, although not that particular call.
NFL ratings were down nearly 10 percent last year and the majority of those surveyed gave the National Anthem protests as the main reason. It was certainly the reason I didn't watch a single game for the first time in my adult life.
Apparently, the NFL has decided to double down on stupid and go for another ratings dip.
Here's to hoping they succeed.
Click.
“First, we are here because we believe Michael Sam deserves a job,” said Symone D. Sanders, former ESPN football anal-yst and former national press secretary, for Bernie Sanders’s presidential campaign."
As an aside, if anyone watched the protester get drilled in the gonads at the Phoenix protest, you will note he was helped off the street (field?), by a guy wearing a Kap jersey.
From my point of view, the team sports are popular because the fans like to admire the stars created by the announcers seeing them as super men who smash the opposing teams or score at will against the appointed loser teams. But the announcers and color men following culture like Alynskites revolutionaries have gone into fault finding slander of every player to show off their power to destroy. That is the same way the media Titans now treat Trump, and we noticed it. Then ESPN added announcer slander blood sports as a substitute for real programming based on reporting.
The NFL cannot control it. Which leaves viewers no option except to turn off the slander makers. All the NFL has any care about now is a desire to expand globally. They hate the Red Neck American Patriotism that shames them in world's wealth cultures that they now suck up to as they bring in new European and Australian players, planning for the day supersonic air travel shrinks the world.
Too bad they hate old fashioned Americans so much that they now hate them back.
Hank Aaron is boycotting the NFL because Kaepernick hasn't gotten a job. So now everyone can boycott - those who oppose kneeling for the anthem, and those who favor it. If we can get everyone to boycott the NFL, all the quarterbacks will be out of jobs. Equality!
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2017/08/23/colin-kaepernick-rally-hank-aaron/
It's racist to call him Hank Aaron, a nickname placed on him by white sportwriters. Or didn't NY CBS know that?
It's Henry Aaron.
" If we can get everyone to boycott the NFL, all the quarterbacks will be out of jobs. Equality!"
This is a rather good sort of politico-cultural strategy to put populist pressure on the ownership class. Kill major-league football. A dead industry is an instructive example.
"It's his ratty Angela Davis hairdo."
At least it should prevent Traumatic Brain Injury, unless the pressure from all that hair would squeeze his head too much.
I just hope that radical girlfriend gives good BJs because she has killed what was left of his career,
Jim Harbaugh showed what a football genius he is by choosing Kap and letting the other guy go to Kansas City.
I thought I saw Matt Cassel play last week so maybe Smith is hurt.
I much prefer college football but my wife likes NFL and she will probably watch,
"The NFL cannot control it."
They certainly can try. They can collectively blackball any ESPN or other network talking head that doesn't toe the line.
I don't know if it will work as the owners of these networks are less interested in money than politics. Its not, for them, about the small picture of the business at hand, which is a small portion of their interests. The bigger businesses trump the little business of sports broadcasting.
The best part of Kaepernick's game was traded away with Frank Gore. After Gore left, it became very apparent he couldn't throw the deep ball accurately.
The other quarterbacks have signed for far less money. He is holding out for starter salary.
I wish I could shout this from the rooftops!
Also, I don't think people would be as turned off towards the NFL when Kap sat if ESPN and the Sports Journalists SJW's didn't blow the situation up. I don't need a split screen during the National Anthem to monitor who is sitting and who is standing broadcasters. If FOX, CBS and NBC completely ignored the protests, they'd probably get a lot of viewers back.
It's arguable that Tebow's skills didn't match the pro set, but there were no tears shed when he went unsigned. The opposite was true. Crapernick can blow it out his fro.
“We also believe that the N.F.L. has been complicit in the ostracization of Colin Kaepernick. "
On what basis?
You don't need to twist. His real job is to sell tickets. Winning games with good play is just a technique for doing that.
Imagine Alec Baldwin goes on a tear beating black people, mugging gays, flashing women. No-one wants to watch his shows anymore, so no-one hires him to act. No difference.
"Hank Aaron is boycotting the NFL because Kaepernick hasn't gotten a job."
Aaron's always had a chip on his shoulder because he didn't think he got enough credit for breaking Ruth's HR record.
Aaron's real problem is he played his entire career in Milwaukee and Atlanta. If he'd played in NYC or LA or Boston -there'd be more books written about him than Willie Mays.
How many people remember Ernie Banks or Eddie Matthews? Great players but more people remember Mantle or "the Duke" because they played in NYC.
There is also the fact that after a couple of good seasons he was a bench-warmer when he started all this, and that at least one team was willing to hire him at the league minimum ($900K+ in his situation), but he turned them down because he (a benchwarmer, remember) thinks he should get more.
$900K. Plus. To spend about 9 months practicing and traveling with an NFL team, and maybe occasionally playing a few downs. Or, if the starter is injured or he can impress the coaches, play a lot more.
This is a new definition of "oppression," and the NAACP and his other supporters should be ashamed. There is plenty of inequity and real racial animus out there to combat; this is not it.
Brett Hundley (who looks to be about 18 yo IMO) looked great in the Packer/Skins game -- although the 'Skins are *so* woefully bad, even I might have looked good. The #3 QB was boring and ineffective: fatal for a QB. You have to entertain. I didn't watch 'til the end when the #4 QB saved them.
The NFL will always survive - but it can be damaged by a boycott.
The NBA survives - even though its management is left-wing - because blacks consider it "their" sport. The NBA ratings for 12-15% that is AA are sky-high. But even the ratings the most popular NBA game are well below the NFL. Plus, the NBA is going "global" and its popular all around the world.
Funny that the NBA doesn't have people kneeling during national anthem. Maybe, the players are too smart.
"I thought I saw Matt Cassel play last week so maybe Smith is hurt."
Uh, Michael K, Matt Cassel has not played for the Chiefs for years. Second, during preseason, no one plays their starters beyond the first quarter if they can avoid it.
If you're a trouble-maker, in an industry represented by a union, it may be hard to fire you, but if you are a trouble-maker who is a free agent, there's nothing that says that anyone is required to hire you. It appears that the various teams have decided that Mr. Kaepernick is more trouble than he is worth, that whatever on-field value he may have is outweighed by the distraction he creates.
What a shame.
People watched a company employee on company premises during company time wearing the company uniform conduct a political protest in front of millions of the company's customers and said to themselves "If I did that I'd be fired! And rightfully so." Then they watched the company say "There's nothing we can do about it" and said to themselves "Well that's bull$h!t, so they're lying to us and there must be some other reason." And they listened to the announcers get all self-righteous and leftist and said "I'm here to watch football, not listen to you lecture me about social issues."
The company constantly markets itself on the basis of hyper-patriotism and then lets this kind of thing go on? It's all bull$h!t, then. We're being played for fools. We're not too dumb to see what's going on and we resent being treated as if we are.
"A new football season is about to begin, and it looks as though kneeling during the anthem will persist"
Glad to hear it. Because I won't be watching another NFL game so long as they tolerate players publicly hating America like that, and the hours saved will really be a benefit to me
rcocean said...
Funny that the NBA doesn't have people kneeling during national anthem. Maybe, the players are too smart.
8/24/17, 3:16 PM
Too tall. Every time they take a knee, they risk blowing it out...
Kaepernick's protest gained a tremendous amount of attention
When I read that, I immediately thought, "Ann was thinking 'garnered' and then edited herself." Verbs that seem to naturally precede attention include "attract," "generate," and "garner." "Gain" -- not so much.
"It may well be that Kaepernick would be signed, but no one wants his anthem-kneeling interfering with the traditional enjoyment of football. "
He wasn't signed because he's not good.
If he was good, he would be quickly granted the "get out of jail free" (figuratively speaking) that excellent but problematic athletes have been granted since the days of Ty Cobb. Contrary to popular opinion Cobb was not the racist monster he has been painted as, but he did have a hair-trigger temper and was more than capable of behaving like an asshole on occasion. He got away with it because the Tigers were not about to shitcan their best player.
If CK was throwing like Tom Brady, believe me, he'd be signed.
"Imagine Alec Baldwin goes on a tear beating black people, mugging gays, flashing women."
Well, Alec Baldwin has - on numerous occasions - done pretty much what you say. Yet (even though I don't watch) he's apparently got the prime spot on Saturday Night Live.
Because he's a leftist working in a leftist-dominated industry.
However, this anthem crap won't fly with the majority of NFL fans. Count on it.
I don't remember Christians protesting when Tebow was cut. Some of us really wanted the guy to succeed - but it's not enough to pray to Jesus, you also have to make the Hail Mary. He did it once, in that great playoff game, but once is not enough - not when you get stomped by the Pats in the next round.
Sports are cruel. The nicest guys are not always the best players. The biggest jerks are not always the best players either. Your personal beliefs and politics won't help you on the field.
Bake that cake or close up shop!
I couldn't bring myself to read the article. Did it mention anywhere that he's terrible at football?
Dishonoring the Poem about Baltimore's Ft McHenry standing up to the British re-invasion in 1814 is a fitting honor to The Marylanders that won the Revolution. They were called Washington's immortals. They were America's first shock troops that were sent into the heart of the worst battles to save the day at Trenton, Brandywine, Monmouth, Stony Point, Camden, Cowpens, Guilford Courthouse and finally Yorktown.
And none of them demanded $20,000,000.00 a year to show up and fight.
You know who has more of a claim of being unfairly blacklisted?
Tebow.
Tim Tebow drew fans, sold merch, etc. Won a playoff game. In minor league baseball, he doubled attendance when he played.
No team would even contemplate him, and he provides as few a series of headaches as anybody could generate.
I don't like the protest cascades because they confuse the issues. For example, the Confederate monument issue has largely become a left-right issue not because it truly is a left-right issue, which it isn't, but because the left anti-free speech contingent protest cascaded into it, and the right is busy reacting to that.
I don't follow the NFL, so I'm struck by how much more I (think I) learned about the situation from the comments here then I did from the article.
The NYT story makes a vague reference to Kapernick (sp? Don't care) being not at the top of his game and also references less statistically impressive QB's being hired. The story harps on his performances of four years ago (which I assume is an eternity in sporting terms).
In the comments I learn that K is indeed well below his peak performance. I learn that he is only good in a system that no one plays these days. I read that he was in fact offered jobs, he just didn't think the salary was high enough. I read that he walked away from an existing job, and the supposedly less talented QB's who have been hired were willing to take much smaller salaries than he was.
It's kind of like the NYT reporter didn't bother to provide basic facts, background and context that would help the general public form their own opinions about the situation and instead was trying to... I don't know... advance a "narrative" or something.
And these people wonder why journalists fall below used car salesmen in public trust surveys. FFS.
The protest cascade is going to Dallas where Jerry Jones told his team that anyone who sits or kneels during the anthem is done.
It will be interesting to see what happen. My prediction is a cratering of ESPN and NFL ratings.
The Browns bullshit kneeling has convinced me to not watch the NFL this season. Two years in a row now.
Players doing steroids? Don't care. Beat their wives/girlfriends? Don't care. I don't live their life and don't care what damage they do themselves.
But I ALSO give no shits about the political opinions of morons, so if you're going to shove it down my throat, I'll just ignore you. And your employer. And the media who covers you.
But it is happening to some extent in college football too. I suppose, although I haven't seen it, that it is occurring at the high school level.
Missouri has been devastated by their caving into SJW a few years back. Schools can look at them as the cautionary tale that they are.
" Michael K, Matt Cassel has not played for the Chiefs for years."
Maybe it was another team. He started for Kansas City but that was before the genius Jon Harbaugh dropped Smith.
I like Cassel because he never started an SC game. He was behind Lienert who got the starting job from Carroll and Cassel just stayed on and graduated. Lienert partied his career away and Cassel just keeps playing.
OK, he started for Tennessee. I don;t know if he will be #1 but that was the game I saw. I like Adoree Jackson and watched him run a punt back through the entire opposing team for a TD.
It got called back for a bad block but he will be fun to watch. I doubt he will be taking knees before games.
Sorry, Jim Harbaugh. John is Baltimore.
Freeman, I think the Confederate monument issue has cascaded into an anti-Confederate graves & dead bodies issue, an anti-Columbus monuments issue, an anti-Jefferson & Washington monuments issue and an anti-Korean sportscasters named "Lee" issue. Which is why it shouldn't have been a left vs right issue but an "anyone with a lick of sense" vs "mouth-breathing Red Guards" issue from the very beginning.
My understanding is that you (and a few others on this board), who can't recognize a slippery slope until you smack your ass sliding to the bottom of one, didn't see it that way.
these dumb mother fuckers should stop lying about why Kap doesn't have a job. It goes beyond HIS protest of sitting and then kneeling. He's smeared the entire country as racist (bullshit). He's insulted police by wearing those stupid pig socks. He's praised Fidel Castro. It's apparent that he'd rather be a Black Panther than a Carolina Panther. His girlfriend call the Ravens owner a slaveholder. Chances are she and Kap feel that way about the rest of the owners as well.
The rest of the tools kneeling are just rats following the pied piper. If they had brains, they might be able to think for themselves and realize it is American which has allowed them to play in the NFL and make tons of money. It is America which allows them to prosper playing a game with a stupid ball that doesn't bounce right.
No one is in blatantly in favor of illegal police conduct or murders, but that doesn't mean all cops are out there systematically assassinating black men, as alleged. That doesn't mean every white (or non-black) person in America is a fucking Nazi or Klansman if they error on the side of trusting the police to make the right decision because their job is difficult dealing with criminals all day and they put their lives on the line. All of these police shootings/incidents need to be decided on their own merits. Many jurisdictions (looking at you Minneapolis) need to retrain their police or use higher standards in hiring, but that doesn't mean its a racist conspiracy against blacks.
None of this has to do with the fucking flag or national anthem, but Kap chose to take a unifying moment for people and turn it into a political argument. The flag has nothing to do with police shootings or racism or any of that bullshit. It's about loving your fucking country and even though we're all in a different situation, we have this one thing that brings us together before a non-political football game. Kap ruined that. FUCK THAT GUY!
He might just kill the goose that laid the golden eggs.
I find it hard to believe these guys can't see that.
Dr. K, please don't bash Jim Harbaugh. His record of success in college and the NFL is outstanding. I'm sure Chuck would agree.
Besides the fact he can't play, and no one is really sure if he even wants to, there is but one reason no team wants him-
No coach wants that poison in the locker room. No one wants to talk about it, no one will talk about it. The locker room is a sanctuary for players, and no one wants someone that will divide players among racial/ideological lines.
It's that simple.
If players want to remain on the bench while others line up for the Anthem, fine. But once you agree to participate in the ceremony, you should do so respectfully. The procedure for the NFL should be simple: there is no penalty for remaining on the bench, but any player who lines up for the Anthem and then disrespects it should not be able to play in that game or get paid for it, period. How hard is that? But the people in charge of our institutions no longer have the, well, balls to take a stand and make it stick.
Dr. K, please don't bash Jim Harbaugh. His record of success in college and the NFL is outstanding. I'm sure Chuck would agree.
He sure made a bad decision with Kap.
I like Cassel because he never started an SC game. He was behind Lienert who got the starting job from Carroll and Cassel just stayed on and graduated. Lienert partied his career away and Cassel just keeps playing.
Cassel had the misfortune to attend USC at the same time as two Heisman winners at quarterback. Perhaps he could have won one also if given the chance. I thought it was kind of cool when he, Leinart and Palmer were all playing in the NFL at the same time. Cassel is the only person to start a game at QB in the NFL without ever starting a game at QB in college.
The Browns bullshit kneeling has convinced me to not watch the NFL this season.
If Browns players kneel on the field, does anybody see?
I reserve my right as an American to ignore Colin K. and not actually give a shit about his problems, which are a direct consequence of his actions and abilities, and richly deserved from almost every perspective.
Michael K said...
"Dr. K, please don't bash Jim Harbaugh. His record of success in college and the NFL is outstanding. I'm sure Chuck would agree."
He sure made a bad decision with Kap.
What was Harbaugh's bad decision with Kaepernick? The Niners got Kaepernick with a second round draft pick. He was supposed to be Alex Smith's backup, but Smith suffered a concussion that forced Harbaugh to use Kaepernick. And from there, the Niners became a regular playoff team and even a Super Bowl contender. Harbaugh made the most of Kaepernick and maybe even Alex Smith. Neither one of which has done much of anything when they weren't in a Harbaugh offense.
Google should hire Kaepernick and the New England Patriots should hire James Damore.
Only two or three or four teams would probably want him in any case.
The kneeling was a cynical ploy to deflect the criticism he received for sitting during the anthem. I suspect he thought he could use the similarity of the position to that of someone praying to be shielded against criticism.
Don't be deceived. He is NOT showing his fealty to God, just USING him to put himself in a defensible position. It is worse than sitting, as he is also pretending to be a devout believer in order to deflect the natural consequence of his decision to USE the anthem to deliver a slap at those who actually love their country.
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