Says robother in the comments to my post about Trump's tweet, which I paraphrased as saying "Comey didn't lay a hand on him."
If an attempted attack fails, what's the right idiomatic expression? 1. Didn't lay a hand on..., 2. Didn't lay a finger on..., or 3. Didn't lay a glove on?
Or are all these good but different slightly?
Does the "glove" one convey the image of a boxer or of an aristocrat?
Is the "hand" one sexual as in "My eyes adored you though I never laid a hand on you..."?
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All 3 (hand, glove, finger) are appropriate for the metaphor. Prefer the boxing context, though. Franki Valli mediating a lover's quarrel between Trump and Comey is a bit creepy.
I always assumed the "glove" thing had to do with boxing.
There's an iron fist in the velvet glove
Comey doesn't need to lay a hand on him. That's for the macho men of the right, the body slammer types. Comey told his story and told the truth, unlike the liar-in-chief!
Maybe that is a hockey term. And smash him with a high stick too.
Did you see the New Jersey Russian mob stole 10,000 lbs of chocolate. It' must be Chris's Christie who is on the take from Russians. Watch out for Trump Chocolates starting up.
sunsong said...
"Comey doesn't need to lay a hand on him. That's for the macho men of the right, the body slammer types. Comey told his story and told the truth, unlike the liar-in-chief!"
Is this a moby making sunsong look obtuse?
Glove: boxer thing.
All of those metaphors work. In the MMA era, you could say "face to foot style", but that would not win fans.
Definitely glove in my opinion- I have always understood that as a boxing metaphor because boxing analysts use it non-metaphorically.
I agree with Bay Area Guy, but context does matter.
The glove, as in boxing glove, conveys the fact the defense was so good that the attacking boxer couldn't get through with any of their punches. Whereas, the hand or finger is used when conveying the idea that one never made an offensive move against the other person. "I never laid a hand on her, officer!"
Glove is better in the Comey/Trump case.
It's a glove. Trust me on that one.
Of course, in that case you might want to use a glove.
Doesn't seem like boxing to me because the verb is lay. Lay a glove? Seems like a more gentlemanly gesture, and men's formalwear used to invilve gloves.
Boxing has long been considered a gentlemen's sport.
Achilles said...
sunsong said...
"Comey doesn't need to lay a hand on him. That's for the macho men of the right, the body slammer types. Comey told his story and told the truth, unlike the liar-in-chief!"
Is this a moby making sunsong look obtuse?"
Why would you think that? That looks like a pretty typical sunsong comment to me.
Althouse: "to lay" is an old usage. A guy lays a blow. It's not a kindly, fondling act.
If sunsong is correct, you'd think these Brooklyn hipsters (none of whom have day jobs, apparently) would look a bit happier:
http://ijr.com/the-declaration/2017/06/894646-accounts-brooklyn-hipsters-bar-watching-comey-hearing-hilarious/
"Boxing has long been considered a gentlemen's sport" as Yancey observes.
This is largely due to the Marquess of Queensbury Rules which turned it from bare knuckles brawling to the sport we think of today. As I recall, that same Marquess took exception to Oscar Wilde laying a hand on his son, although that had nothing to do with the sweet science.
Those Brooklyn Hipsters remind me of the scene in Peter Pan where all the boys and girls have to applaud if they believe in fairies. Only in this play Tinkerbell is not revived.
I would say that he did lay a hand on him. Comey slapped Trump several times, and Trump punched him in the face. Not a knock out though, Trump will have to settle for a decision on points.
Rubber gloves are a burglar's friend. Maybe Comey was an FBI sneak thiefand that reminded DJT, who thinks in song lyrics, that Comey was nothing but a hound dog just crying all the time, he never caught a leaker, he ain't no friend of mine. The Dimms said Comey was high class, but that was just a lie.
Makes one wonder if the Swedes give a prize in Literature for Tweets yet?
Gloves show up in love poems owing to rhyme. Also doves and shoves.
Seems like a more gentlemanly gesture, and men's formal wear used to involve gloves.
"Laying down the gauntlet" is the expression you are probably thinking of. I was.
Dove in fact is in the poetic annex to Ogden's Basic English wordlist.
"Smell the Glove" by Spinal Tap
Gloves also have a role in prostate examinations. This might be apt.
Trump took some punches, but overall he won the day because of the following, pretty indisputable facts:
Comey did tell Trump three times he wasn't under investigation, told Congress the same thing, and couldn't really explain why he refused to say this publicly. To a non-partisan or a Trump supporter, keeping this fact non-public while telling everyone in Congress really doesn't sound fair or proper. It looks even worse since it is clear that many people who knew the truth, because Comey had told them, were telling the press the exact opposite. An honorable man does not let slanders go unanswered if he is in a position to show them as such, and especially if it is his own reputation that is being used to support the slander.
Comey admitted that Trump did not order the investigation stopped into Russian influence, and admitted that Trump thought it was a good idea to learn its extent; and Comey pretty much admits that Trump didn't order him to stop the investigation of Flynn- only that, by yesterday, Comey thought it might have been an order. However, Comey never acted like he really believed it an order, nor did the Flynn investigation stop after Comey was fired.
The specific areas where Comey called Trump a liar aren't really either provable, and are really just differences of opinion- in other words, prove to me that the FBI wasn't in disarray- one can't meet that demand, so it is pointless to call it a matter of truth or lie.
Finally, Comey had to admit that the February 14th story in the NYTimes was basically all wrong, which means that the entire collusion story is all wrong. All you are left with is a counter-intelligence investigation, of which I will remind people once again, not a single verifiable and conclusive piece of evidence supporting has made it to the press- not a single one. Sure Comey says there is "no fuzz" about that, but I actually want to see concrete evidence of this, not someone telling me it exists and to trust them on it. Additionally, the Democrats mouthpieces in the media did the Comey thing no favors by getting certain aspects of it completely and laughably wrong in the days prior- people do notice this shit and it totally undermines the press' credibility as they try to spin Comey's nothingburger. That is why panels like the one on CNN probably turn out they way they do.
If Trump were to wear gloves, specifically boxing gloves, on a regular basis, then the pussy grabbing would henceforth cease.
If the glove hits, you must acquit.
Bob Ellison said...
A guy lays a blow
I consider myself lucky to get one or the other.
Chair: "What we'd like you to do for us Mr. Comey, is walk is through what is a typical day for you.."
Comey: "I shield the Clintons and fling innuendo at the President!"
Rubio: "What would you say.. what would you say you DO here?"
"Maybe that is a hockey term."
Gloves have the opposite meaning in hockey compared to boxing. In hockey, the fisticuffs start when the gloves come OFF.
Great comments. Got my laugh quota for the day.
Now I'm going to have that fricking Frankie Valli song playing in my head all day.
Boxing is dead.
It's all mixed martial arts.
No gloves.
Althouse is right.
They use gloves in MMA.
Bay Area Guy, 12:19:
So would the tweeting.
The Invisible Hand doesn't wear gloves.
No glove, no love.
"Comey told his story and told the truth..."
And we know that because...?
Maybe a glove helps loosen a hung Parliament. The Brits have a strange political language.
Didn't touch him, didn't scratch the paint etc.Shot and missed; if the glove don't hit, you must acquit. A fellow could have a fine time here.
As for Comey and his relationship to the truth; well Comey said Trump told lies plain and simple; Comey however prevaricated in a much fancier sort of way.
Romania likes Trump. And Trump was full of confidence at the Press Conference. And the Fake News Media seemed cowed and put in its place, for now.
He broke them. He broke them.
It was the glove that dare not speak its name.
Grand Jury. Either the reporters give up the leaders or they sit in a jail cell until they give up the leakers. Send the first 3 to prison for 30 years for conspiracy and treason and the rest will come clean.
Of course, Comey didn't "lay a hand on Trump". Compey did enough. Comey has left it to the Special Counsel Mueller to "lay a hand on Trump". It is amazing how ridiculously dumb Trumpski's are. There is far more to KremlinGate than Trump asking Comey to drop investigation.
"Gentlemanly gesture"
To "lay on" is to attack with a sword.
There is far more to KremlinGate than Trump asking Comey to drop investigation.
In your dreams.
"Althouse: "to lay" is an old usage. A guy lays a blow. It's not a kindly, fondling act."
To expand: punches are "thrown". Those that hit their mark, "land" on their opponent. To say he didn't lay a glove on me is to assert that none of the punches thrown hit the target - he swung at me and missed every time.
We need Laslo to conjure up "A Day In The Life Of A Leftist Who Wants Trump Dead But Is Too Cowardly To Do It And Hates Himself For That"
Althouse's Lefty Billhillies are insane.
The advantage of the glove metaphor is that it can be used in a graduated manner, unlike hand or finger.
Level 1. Carefully remove your glove and then smack the antagonist in the face with it.
level 2. Leave the glove on and slap the face of the antagonist with a smart backhand motion.
Level 3. Punch squarely in the nose.
The three expressions substantially, albeit perhaps not completely, overlap.
Blogger traditionalguy said...
"He broke them. He broke them."
You only said it twice.
"Comey told his story and told the truth, unlike the liar-in-chief!"
Want to know why nobody takes you people seriously?
Because six months ago you were SCREAMING for Comey's head.
And now? He's your knight in shining armor.
That's why.
I read the other day that his tweets are unconstitutional and blocking somebody on Twitter violates the first amendment and is therefore a high crime, or at least a misdemeanor, which I think just means misbehavior, actually.
We need Laslo to conjure up "A Day In The Life Of A Leftist Who Wants Trump Dead But Is Too Cowardly To Do It And Hates Himself For That"
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
I would understand any of them in that context, so interchangeable. If you were talking boxing- it would be gloves for certain. Assault would be finger or hands. Evidence, like fingerprints "I didn't lay a finger on it."
Jim at sez:
"Want to know why nobody takes you people seriously? Because six months ago you were SCREAMING for Comey's head.
And now? He's your knight in shining armor."
Ain't that the truth. I have a good friend who is a serious lefty Facebook jihadi. I swore off FB after the election, but I still check it, especially on days like yesterday. Yesterday, his post was "So far, Comey is absolutely living up to his reputation as a man of integrity and measured clarity."
That set off an alarm for me so I scrolled down his timeline to last October and found this after Comey "reopened" the Clinton investigation:
"Consider the source, but Comey probably won't survive this misstep.Really was stupid on his part and brloke with FBI policy and procedure. I don't believe he was purposely trying to influence the election...I think he's just stupid. And you can't have stupid as the head of the FBI."
He was right about the not surviving part. And in case he sees this, I still love you SM, but I can't stand Facebook anymore. I had to get this out of my system.
That song always kinda creeped me out.
"Unknown said...
Of course, Comey didn't "lay a hand on Trump". Compey did enough. Comey has left it to the Special Counsel Mueller to "lay a hand on Trump". It is amazing how ridiculously dumb Trumpski's are. There is far more to KremlinGate than Trump asking Comey to drop investigation."
Unnkowns theme song.
I think you could draw the following distinction. If there was no interaction at all: "didn't lay a hand/finger on". If the parties did actually engage in a fight (i.e., donned boxing gloves), but one person fought ineffectively - "don't lay a glove on."
That song take on an entirely different meaning if the word adored is replaced with deplored.
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