Althouse: "Would you like symbolic arrests?"/"If so, where and when?"

१८ एप्रिल, २०१७

"Would you like symbolic arrests?"/"If so, where and when?"

Questions from the Berkeley Police Department.

५४ टिप्पण्या:

Bruce Hayden म्हणाले...: Don't you love it? Apparently the Berkeley Police will only arrest protesters if they want some symbolic arrests. They can burn the place down, put people in the hospital, and that won't get the protesters arrested, but they will oblige if they need arrests for the evening news.; १८/४/१७, १:३० PM
Michael K म्हणाले...: Explains a lot. We are going to have severe problems if the authorities in these left wing jurisdictions don't start enforcing the law.

It will get a lot worse. A lot worse.

We are now teetering on the edge of a truly terrifying incident, one trigger-pull away from a slaughter. Campus and urban progressives have a choice to make. Is this a nation of laws? If it is, then it’s time to grow a backbone, protect free speech, punish rioters, and expel those who disrupt the educational environment regardless of ideology. There should be no more sympathy or leniency for the lawless social-justice warrior than there is for the lawless neo-Nazi. Every single time the progressive establishment ignores, minimizes, or whitewashes leftist violence, it sows the wind.; १८/४/१७, १:३२ PM
Roughcoat म्हणाले...: What the fuck?; १८/४/१७, १:३३ PM
Big Mike म्हणाले...: I have been hoping that it's a hoax or that someone hacked the Berkeley PD web site. I'm still hoping for one or the other.; १८/४/१७, १:३४ PM
DougWeber म्हणाले...: Looks real or hacked.
http://www.ci.berkeley.ca.us/Police/Home/Protest_101/Event_Checklist.aspx; १८/४/१७, १:३५ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: This seems right to me. California has always been at the cultural forefront. And Berkeley has always led California.

A symbolic arrest is a very rich notion and IMHO entirely symbolic (if I may say so) of the state of our culture.

That is to say, nothing really matters. Indignation and wounded psyche are merely declarations. I raise my standards claiming the attention and sympathy (and funding) of the larger cultural and social and political matrix. You raise yours. Theater ensues.

Yes, heads get cracked and lives get ruined. But that is completely beside the point.

If you are not getting the clicks and the retweets and the invites to appear on the Sunday shows, you are nothing.; १८/४/१७, १:३७ PM
Scott म्हणाले...: Beat me to it, Doug.

Google came up with the same story from a day ago, so I'd assume real.

The kicker is anyone wearing a mask to a protest is in violation of California state law, which looks to be a variation on some of the anti-Klan laws from the 1870s. That gives grounds to arrest a lot of the violent protestors.; १८/४/१७, १:४० PM
Fernandinande म्हणाले...: ही टिप्पणी लेखकाना हलविली आहे.; १८/४/१७, १:४० PM
Fernandinande म्हणाले...: Link from pic: http://www.ci.berkeley.ca.us.linkis.com/WYYOU

"We want to work in partnership with you to hold a safe and peaceful event. The following items are things that we recommend you do to ensure a safe event.
...
Purpose of protest"; १८/४/१७, १:४२ PM
Fernandinande म्हणाले...: ही टिप्पणी लेखकाना हलविली आहे.; १८/४/१७, १:४४ PM
Charlie Eklund म्हणाले...: The Berkeley Mayor's office would be an ideal place to start.; १८/४/१७, १:४५ PM
Owen म्हणाले...: The masks these people wear? Should come with a bullseye.

I tend to pull my shots, this would help me center the bat.; १८/४/१७, १:५७ PM
Matt Sablan म्हणाले...: Wait. When I saw that, I thought it was a parody/joke/satire.

They really ask that?; १८/४/१७, २:१९ PM
David म्हणाले...: I give them points for honesty. These get done all over the place, but rarely do the cops fess up to the truth.; १८/४/१७, २:२१ PM
johns म्हणाले...: This is a win-win for the police and protesters. Police get to increase their arrest count, which is one of the criteria for measuring their performance. Protesters get released immediately and get to brag that they were arrested.
The process can be repeated endlessly if there are endless protests.
Locally, the head rector of my church along with other activists were arrested a few days ago while blocking the driveway of the local ICE facility. Immediate release, so no interference with preaching at Easter services.
Standing in line for Easter services, I was told that these arrests are not a problem for lawyers, nurses and other professionals who would lose their licenses if convicted of other offenses. So its all a colorful theater (except for those physically attacked); १८/४/१७, २:२२ PM
Sprezzatura म्हणाले...: Cool.

Do they have an app?

I'd like to be arrested at 1600 Shattuck, and un-arrested at 1603 San Pablo.

Thx.; १८/४/१७, २:२५ PM
Static Ping म्हणाले...: I dunno. It is not a terrible idea. If you know that the protest is going to be theater, it does help the police prepare for the theater and know that the protesters will not be struggling. It avoids injuries.

Then again, arrests should have consequences. Symbolic arrests should have fines. If you are going to make the police waste their time with your theater, you should have to pay for it.; १८/४/१७, २:३१ PM
Static Ping म्हणाले...: I will add that it makes the arrests completely phony and therefore has no moral power. Non-sacrifices get non-respect.; १८/४/१७, २:३२ PM
Wince म्हणाले...: Wouldn't this practice put in serious question any actual conviction resulting from an arrest made by BPD, and open the city to all kinds of civil rights claims?; १८/४/१७, २:३५ PM
FullMoon म्हणाले...: 3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said... [hush][hide comment]

Cool.

Do they have an app?

I'd like to be arrested at 1600 Shattuck, and un-arrested at 1603 San Pablo.

Thx.

You too old to go back to your corners..; १८/४/१७, २:३६ PM
tcrosse म्हणाले...: Anything about symbolic beatings and camera placements ?; १८/४/१७, २:३६ PM
Ignorance is Bliss म्हणाले...: Mixed feelings on this. On the one hand, I don't think the police should be helping the protesters with their PR. On the other hand, if a protester intends to get arrested, an agreed-upon arrest is better than the protester escalating their lawlessness, causing more injury and/or property damage, until the police finally arrest them.

Any arrests should be for prosecutable offenses, and those offenses should be prosecuted.; १८/४/१७, २:३८ PM
Matt Sablan म्हणाले...: "Any arrests should be for prosecutable offenses, and those offenses should be prosecuted."

-- Civil Disobedience isn't really that if you don't face the consequences for being disobedient.; १८/४/१७, २:४० PM
Bob Loblaw म्हणाले...: This is a win-win for the police and protesters. Police get to increase their arrest count, which is one of the criteria for measuring their performance. Protesters get released immediately and get to brag that they were arrested.
The process can be repeated endlessly if there are endless protests.

This is why I can't get too excited. The police are making sure public order is maintained, and the protesters are getting what they want, too, which is a public signal of their badassery and commitment to the cause (whatever it is).

Also, there's a third party here, which is the press. Instead of hanging around all day waiting for something to happen they can swing by for 20 minutes, take pictures, and bang out a story from a template.

Surely the public realizes these arrests are mostly theater, particularly in a place like Berkeley where protests happen on every day ending in "y"?; १८/४/१७, २:४१ PM
FullMoon म्हणाले...: Symbolic arrests are spending a night i jail with fellow protesters, then getting sentenced the next morning for time served, and released.

Two weeks or a month is enough time to seperate revelers from serious anarchists. Ninety days to a year will thin the herd even more.

And, contrary to a lot of current comments, not all of these black clad assholes are crybabies who run and hide when confronted. Some are like old school Bill Ayers and his gang. These people will kill you. A few un organized bikers and ex military, law enforcement guys, who are generally employed, law abiding, and leading more regular lives are not the same as organized criminals who will plan coordinated attacks ahead
of time.; १८/४/१७, २:४५ PM
Matt Sablan म्हणाले...: "Some are like old school Bill Ayers and his gang."

-- The worry is that they may be more competent than that.; १८/४/१७, ३:०० PM
Todd म्हणाले...: Matthew Sablan said... [hush][hide comment]
"Any arrests should be for prosecutable offenses, and those offenses should be prosecuted."

-- Civil Disobedience isn't really that if you don't face the consequences for being disobedient.

4/18/17, 2:40 PM

It is the judicial equivalent of a "participation trophy", everyone goes home feeling included. That is how you change the world!; १८/४/१७, ३:०३ PM
madAsHell म्हणाले...: When I studied Washington state history in grade school, we learned about the Centralia massacre. I always wondered how in the world did that happen.

Well, reviewing the history, and we can see perceived Russian influences, police apathy (or lack of resources), and Wobblies. I think that pretty much sums up Berkeley today!!; १८/४/१७, ३:०५ PM
Michael K म्हणाले...: Blogger Matthew Sablan said...
"Some are like old school Bill Ayers and his gang."

-- The worry is that they may be more competent than that.

Yes, god help you if you should run into Bernadine Dorhn. She was a killer. Bill was a playboy.; १८/४/१७, ३:०६ PM
MaxedOutMama म्हणाले...: I was not aware that the Constitution allowed for "symbolic arrests". I thought due process and so forth forbade such?

Well, I am a country hick so I guess I need to improve my eddication, what with Berkeley people being so far, far above benighted rednecks like me. I cower before the fierce intellect of Berkeley officials!

Or maybe I'm just doubled over laughing. My neck's so red already, how could anyone tell?

But I suspect some of the Berkeley defense lawyers will be walking around for a few days with wide smiles and visible crotch protrusions. It's a beautiful thing to take to court! All official and so forth.; १८/४/१७, ३:०७ PM
tim maguire म्हणाले...: You know it's a high class police force. The prices aren't on the menu.; १८/४/१७, ३:१५ PM
TrespassersW म्हणाले...: Progressivism (n): A criminal enterprise masquerading as a political movement.; १८/४/१७, ३:१५ PM
MaxedOutMama म्हणाले...: EDH: Wouldn't this practice put in serious question any actual conviction resulting from an arrest made by BPD, and open the city to all kinds of civil rights claims?

Oh, yes indeed. Equal protection, the Fourth Amendment, etc.

I think we have found one hobby for Ann in retirement. She and Meade could have a lot of fun with Berkeley.; १८/४/१७, ३:२३ PM
Kevin म्हणाले...: When Berkeley goes full Marxist the symbolic arrests will no longer be an option.; १८/४/१७, ३:३१ PM
MadisonMan म्हणाले...: I roll my eyes at the font at that website.; १८/४/१७, ३:३३ PM
Darrell म्हणाले...: We can always send in real police to arrest the fake police that won't enforce existing laws.; १८/४/१७, ३:४६ PM
Darrell म्हणाले...: And send in police to arrest the Leftie judges that won't convict fellow Lefties.; १८/४/१७, ३:५८ PM
Breezy म्हणाले...: Potemkin all the way down...; १८/४/१७, ४:०१ PM
Bob Boyd म्हणाले...: Do you want symbolic arrests?

Do want the policemen wearing all leather uniforms?

Do you want to be handcuffed? Metal or fur?

Do you want the vibrating billy club?

Do want body cavity searches?

Do want to stay in the dungeon overnight?

If not, how many hours?

Do you have an account with us?; १८/४/१७, ४:१३ PM
ccscientist म्हणाले...: I have seen personally the Chicago police when confronted with a crowd that was deemed likely to riot come out in force. Hundreds of officers (seemed like) lined the street all along the march route. This was very effective in preventing trouble. In Bezerkly, the police stand over on the side and do NOT get between the two groups--not protecting those legally marching and not preventing the two groups from fighting. This bizarre claim that they can't arrest those who assault, who burn stuff, is simply beyond belief. It is especially bizarre that they do not feel they are obliged to protect innocent citizens--if not, we need a new police force.; १८/४/१७, ४:१७ PM
Qwinn म्हणाले...: ARM, Inga, etc. all notably absent from this thread. I can imagine them hitting refresh over and over at www.sorostalkingpoints.gov, looking for how to plausibly spin this into the Everything Is Conservative's Fault or the Everybody Does It narratives. Don't worry, I say! You guys are never really plausible anyway. Just make the assertions, no matter how ridiculous they sound, we won't really notice the difference between this and any other thread.; १८/४/१७, ४:२६ PM
Etienne म्हणाले...: ही टिप्पणी लेखकाना हलविली आहे.; १८/४/१७, ४:३३ PM
Bob Boyd म्हणाले...: What will be your safe word?; १८/४/१७, ४:३७ PM
Etienne म्हणाले...: ही टिप्पणी लेखकाना हलविली आहे.; १८/४/१७, ४:३९ PM
mockturtle म्हणाले...: Per Bob Boyd:

Do you want symbolic arrests?

Do want the policemen wearing all leather uniforms?

Do you want to be handcuffed? Metal or fur?

Do you want the vibrating billy club?

Do want body cavity searches?

Do want to stay in the dungeon overnight?

If not, how many hours?

Do you have an account with us?

And, as Dr. Laslo's Professor of Magnetic Thinking would say,
'fees may apply'.; १८/४/१७, ४:४१ PM
William म्हणाले...: Arrest them all. I've never yet heard a cymbal that added anything worthwhile to a band or orchestra. In my opinion they're worse than cowbells or gongs.; १८/४/१७, ५:१३ PM
Yancey Ward म्हणाले...: The police in these cities will begin making arrests once it is Trump supporters bashing on the anti-Trump supporters. That Berkeley is asking this question now supports this assertion- Antifa got their asses kicked this weekend, much to the surprise of everyone living there. I predict the next time Trump supporters do this, they end up in jail.; १८/४/१७, ५:१५ PM
Wince म्हणाले...: MadisonMan said...
I roll my eyes at the font at that website.

Yeah, the "M" in DEPARTMENT looks like it's taking a crap in the street.

How apropos.; १८/४/१७, ५:२१ PM
Achilles म्हणाले...: "Would you like symbolic arrests?"/"If so, where and when?"

The rule of law and respect for the law and respect from the law are core components of liberty.

This expressly undermines liberty in a fundamental way. That has always been the goal of progressives.

This will not end well for them if they continue. Antifa got a wrist slap this time compared to what is coming.; १८/४/१७, ५:३४ PM
Francisco D म्हणाले...: Michael K. wrote: "Bill was a playboy."

Yes. I knew the crowd he hung out with. He was a punk rich kid (Daddy ran ComEd) who played a game we called "Saturday afternoon at the revolution." That was mostly about getting stoned and laid. He was not a revolutionary. He got swept up in it.

Obama is just as much a phony as Ayers. That's why they hung out with the same crowd in Chicago. They were a lot closer than the MSM will ever, ever admit.; १८/४/१७, ५:४१ PM
n.n म्हणाले...: Pro-Choice (PC), but with less than 100% casualty rate and collateral damage. Political corruption.; १८/४/१७, ५:५८ PM
Michael K म्हणाले...: Obama is just as much a phony as Ayers. That's why they hung out with the same crowd in Chicago.

Bernadine would have killed Obama just with fucking, which she did a lot of. I think the saying in the Weathermen was that "she ruled with her pussy."

Bill seems to have survived, which is probably the only thing he has ever done that required effort.; १८/४/१७, ७:४१ PM
Zach म्हणाले...: Better than the alternative. Why make protesters commit real crimes when they just want to go on the record as opposing something?

My workplace was protested the day before the Berkeley fracas. They were well behaved and a couple dozen chose to be arrested at the end. As long as they're well behaved, why not give them what they want?; २०/४/१७, १२:०४ AM
JAORE म्हणाले...: "The kicker is anyone wearing a mask to a protest is in violation of California state law,..."

That is the law in Alabama too.

Some of the black mask folk showed up on the Auburn U campus. Campus cops made them take the masks off.

Ahh, the refreshing light of day....; २०/४/१७, ७:०५ AM