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१५२ टिप्पण्या:
Who tried to spin the Hispanic narrative?
Anyone who wants Americans to ignore the Jihad War being conducted on the West by Muslims who have read the Quran and who are acting faithfully to the express instructions written in the book to wage war on non-Muslims until the whole world submits to Islam.
Gee, I don't know. Whose interest would it be in to downplay Islamic terrorism? Give me a minute.
Forget it, Jake, it's the Seattle area.
Witnesses told the cops who told the media. Not that hard to figure out how it happened. But you can dramatize and bellyache about anything.
They're trying to go with "all those brown people look alike"?
Forget it, Jake, it's the witnesses' fault.
George Zimmerman comes to mind.
White Hispanic Turk.
I am The Replacement Laslo.
I've noticed of late department stores no longer require you to run the gauntlet of sales people wanting you to "try" a new scent, probably due to chemical sensitivity issues and the decay of brick and mortar operating margins.
Probably a good thing. Who hasn't contemplated popping a cap in their ass at one point or another?
In this case the shooting scene is probably due to the perfume and make-up counters still being located near an entrance to the store where they used to approach you with fragrance.
Maybe he came in on the Mexucan boatlift.
Okay, calm down here. The cops said the guy looked "Hispanic" because that was their best guess of his ethnicity judging from what they saw on the not tremendously clear security camera recordings from the mall. What the hell ethnic description did you want them to use? "Clearly not Swedish"?
I mean, how many Turks are there in the Seattle area versus how many Hispanics (whatever an "Hispanic" is)? Chances are, some brown-ish guy with black hair who clearly isn't Indian subcontinent in the Seattle area is Hispanic.
For the Cascadia police, like the rest of us, ya play the numbers & ya takes yer chances. They bet on black, & the ball stopped on red.
Leftie hierarchy places Hispanics in the exact same place as lefties claim the Right places them.
George Zimmerman comes to mind.
That was the Kos Kidz fault. They had him pegged as one of those Joos that move to Florida. Every commenter there was telling "funny" stories of how scared they are of black/brown people. And how they themselves love them so.
@EDH,
In this case the shooting scene is probably due to the perfume and make-up counters still being located near an entrance to the store where they used to approach you with fragrance.
They put the cosmetics & perfumes right up front in department stores because absolutely nothing else a department store sells has the profit margins that perfumes & cosmetics do. The ladies get hooked on their favorite brand (e.g. Shiseido) & you've got yerself a great recurring revenue stream!
Lefty hierarchy not in play here. It was the Cascadia police spokesman, but good try!
"Hispanic" of course, is a linguistic not a racial category. Did he say something in espanole while shooting? Now, I see they describe him a zombie-like. Anything to distract from the latest inconvenient Islamic behavior.
Lefty hierarchy is in play everywhere, lest the Fed stops giving them the surplus "toys" and confiscated cash.
I expect it was an honest mistake. However like just about every federal organization now, very few people trust the authorities to not cover up in a partisan way. This will not end well.
It wasn't a narrative, not at first. It was just a generic description used by the police. The guy looks Hispanic. The problem is the MSM eagerly seized on that because they hoped he was Hispanic. An American-born Hispanic who did not cross the border, of course.
Is there anything less newsworthy than "...protests erupt on Twitter"?
Sun comes up again, unexpectedly.
If the witnesses described a hispanic looking man, then that's what you go with. That's what he looks like as far you know. The outrage is retarded.
Very few liberals and very few conservatives ever really believed he was Hispanic. Fortunately, the Hispanics (who by the way live the longest out of any one in our country) are fairly sanguine and probably won't get all bent out of shape. American born anglo commenters - a different kettle of fish entirely.
I'm outraged at your pejorative use of "retarded," bagoh20. Taking to Twitter now.
It was obvious from the photos they posted the guy was not Hispanic. It was just as obvious that it would have been politically incorrect to say "muslim" even though that turned out to be true. We all knew this without being told.
Reality does not get Hillary elected. Everything her campaign is based on is a lie. People voting for her are knowingly voting for a lie.
In this case the shooting scene is probably due to the perfume and make-up counters still being located near an entrance to the store where they used to approach you with fragrance.
Legend has it that this was started by Harry Gordon Selfridge, who put the perfume counters at the entrance of his store circa 1910 to mask the odor of horse manure coming in from the streets.
I agree with Jim Gust. The picture that they extracted from the surveillance video never did look particularly Hispanic to me. I thought he looked more Mediterranean, though not necessarily Middle Eastern.
Lefty hierarchy not in play here. It was the Cascadia police spokesman, but good try!
Good try, but not relevant. The media quickly and eagerly described the shooter as 'Hispanic'. Not 'let's wait till we have all the facts' or 'can't jump to conclusions' as they do when they don't get cover from a police media spokesman.
Whatever happened to the descriptor "swarthy"?
He would have been properly categorized had he been shooting at Armenians.
"Lefty hierarchy is in play everywhere." Of course. Even if "mistakes were made." Latinxs are on notice that they are no longer the left's favorite Other.
@EDH,
Whatever happened to the descriptor "swarthy"?
Only used when Conan the Barbarian is the suspected perp.
"I'm outraged at your pejorative use of "retarded," bagoh20."
It's like the N-word. I'm allowed to use the r-word, and the rest of you can't. We're taking the power of the word back.
BTW, what my wife would like to know is whether Mr. Cetin is one of the Muslims who considers women to be property under Sharia law and whether that is why he gunned down his ex-girlfriend.
For the Cascade police, like the rest of us, ya play the numbers & ya takes yer chance
Play the numbers? Have there been a lot of Hispanic shooting sprees lately?
It's mostly interesting because law enforcement waits so long to describe someone to be muslim if that's who did the crime.
In this case, there was a picture, and there was no reason to give an ethnicity. In fact, it was probably a little harmful because the guy they have in custody doesn't look hispanic.
If it was an honest mistake, it confirms the fears of many that Middle Eastern men can pass for Mexican and easily slip through our porous southern border.
Donald Trump was well-positioned either way.
Maybe Hillary was not prepped for reality intruding into her debate.
This one was obvious from the photos. I laughed out loud when I read the "Hispanic" speculation. Such a classic example of PNW passive-aggressive PC pussyfooting. Or one unusually arch police officer.
The "hispanic" meme was clearly pushed by Hillary's minions in a failed attempt to get Donald Trump to mouth off again about Hispanics. Well, he didn't and now the lefties look like bigots (again). sounds crazy but we haven't seen anything yet. Too much is at stake.
Perfectly logical given the probabilities. "Hispanic" males are increasingly engaging in terrorist-like attacks in the U.S. while swarthy middle eastern men are not. (/sarc)
Tough choice for authorities and the mediaswine of "left coast" Seattle. Do they protect temporarily the "peaceful Islam, harmless refugees" narrative at the risk of maligning another Democrat voting bloc?
Evidently, the answer is "yes." That's confidence for ya.
Seems like "Hispanic" was just a catchall for "Brown" -- i.e. not white, not black, not asian.
But can you imagine the uproar if they'd announced a manhunt for a "brown" suspect?
Interestingly, there is considerable Near-Eastern/Eastern Med genetic origin in modern Iberian people. I myself am about 10% of that in "ancient DNA" analyses, though surprisingly that detects no Berber. So there should be no great surprise about appearances.
There shouldnt be any dings on ethnic ID errors, because there are great similarities.
Ref. and do look her up because she's great, Yasmin Levy the Sephardic Israeli singer. Shes of Turkish origin but shes descended from Ladino-speaking Spanish Jews. She could pass as Spanish, Turkish, or nearly anywhere in the Med.
Hillary: "They're so mad at Donald Trump's rhetorical they're attacking America while Barack Obama -- who Sidney Blumenthal reliably tells me was born a Muslim in Kenya -- is president."
"They put the cosmetics & perfumes right up front in department stores because "
It makes it easy for Allah Akbar types to find the women who are buying makeup instead of burkhas.
When I saw the surveillance photo, I knew it was a Muslim but I guessed wring on the first name. I thought it would be Mohammed.
Laslo: White Hispanic Turk.
Lol.
Gotta admit that it's highly entertaining to watch the scrupulously PC struggle in their self-generated quicksand pit.
OK, I have not read anything about the shooter. Did he declare himself to be Muslim? Or are you "thinking" Turk means Muslim? Not necessarily.
I demand a mitochondrial DNA ancestry test. Let the genes fall where they may.
I see a white American.
Gary Johnson is on the libert-leaning freakanomics. I'd seriously consider voting for him just because listening to him is such a breath of fresh air even though I disagree with at least 60% of what he says. It's HOW he says it, with so little high expressed emotion and gotchas and cheers and jeers. I'm not so sure how serious he is about foreign policy, but Trump isn't either, and I'm not sure what Hillary's plans are, so there may be a net wash on that issue. He and Stein (to a lesser extent, but even that could be crucial) will definitely be playing spoiler in November.
I know they are stupid, but at this point, it's hard to believe that such an attempt to divert would go over without an "outrage". I don't believe the paranoia of a conspiracy. The more logical reason is a simple mistake born of wishful thinking. Still a problem after all that has happened. Maybe we can wish the Muslim problem away.
I admit it's not likely, but it could be the cops put this out intentionally, in hopes the guy might let his guard down. In any case, they got him. Good. They did their job. They are not in the business of safeguarding anyone's political biases, preferences, or assumptions. They are supposed to get the bad guys, and that's what they did here.
LYNNDH wrote: "OK, I have not read anything about the shooter. Did he declare himself to be Muslim? Or are you "thinking" Turk means Muslim? Not necessarily.
9/25/16, 12:13 PM"
I'm pretty sure that it was reported that at least one "Allah Akbar" [sick] was uttered during the shooting. Does that count?
You got it Jon Burack.
"Well, you freaked out when I said "quadroon!""
#LifeImitatesArcher
"Gary Johnson is on the libert-leaning freakanomics. I'd seriously consider voting for him just because listening to him is such a breath of fresh air even though I disagree with at least 60% of what he says."
My instincts are strongly libertarian, exception on foreign policy and borders, but I can't vote for him, because the votes for him are wasted ones that nobody will remember. It accomplishes nothing at this point. If he had over 30%, then maybe. One big problem I have with him is his belief that Hillary is just fine, and was a good S.of S., as well as his lack of passion against leftist policy. I have no confidence he could stand up to the pressure to protect and expand it. We need lots of passion as well as reason on that front to counter the passion of big statist constituencies.
I was pretty sure before even seeing his picture he wouldn't be Hispanic. After seeing the photos, I was sure. But, hey, we wouldn't want to provoke an outbreak of islamophobia, now would we?
"OK, I have not read anything about the shooter. Did he declare himself to be Muslim? Or are you "thinking" Turk means Muslim? Not necessarily." Aww, bless your little heart, LYNNDH.
Lord. Contrary to what the politically correct would have you believe, law enforcement still routinely ask black, white, or hispanic? when preparing “be on the lookout” statements, especially in cases where nothing else is known about the suspect. Even the ACLU says it’s legit. Looking at the surveillance photo, I’d say the police did pretty well.
This is common sense. Please don’t join the mob.
The last real Caliphate was the Turks who are a Mongol tribe that conquered and ruled as Muslims. Ask the Armenians what Turks think about killing infidels. The basic Muslim Religion is structured as Allah' s approval of the killing of all infidels.
I heard they used that description due to witness accounts.
Blogger bagoh20 said...
My instincts are strongly libertarian, exception on foreign policy and borders, but I can't vote for him, because the votes for him are wasted ones that nobody will remember. It accomplishes nothing at this point. If he had over 30%, then maybe. One big problem I have with him is his belief that Hillary is just fine, and was a good S.of S., as well as his lack of passion against leftist policy. I have no confidence he could stand up to the pressure to protect and expand it. We need lots of passion as well as reason on that front to counter the passion of big statist constituencies.
Wasted votes that no one will remember? Voting is a private matter based upon personal beliefs. I personally don't look for approval when choosing the best qualified for the job. What Gary Johnson believes about Hillary is not a valid reason not to vote for him. He is far more honest than Trump has ever been or will ever be; Johnson has far more experience in politics; he is smarter than Trump and he is far to the right of Trump in his political thinking. This choice is easy to make.
It's not PC to say someone "looks" hispanic. But of course there is a look that some Hispanics have. This guy had that look and since there are a lot more hispanics than Turks in that area, that's how he was described.
Nothing more than that.
Honestly the video stills I saw were so bad that ISTM it could have been any "SDD" type as the Euro Hate Chart says. So Hispanic was possible, and the shooting of a bunch of women was suggestive of some love thing-Muslims don't seem to do the love thing.
That said, one pale waxy-skinned aharp-faced shot looked exactly like my notion of a stereotypical "cruel Turk," though that pic looks so unlike the mug shot that I don't know what to think. (Kind an echo of Mohammed Atta.)
Anyway Trump did not expose himself and this cannot but injure the PC narrative. Which is all anyone in the media cares.
Grieve for the lost ones. And if this fellow is guilty, hang him high, hopefully squeezing him for any info first.
Bottom line Hanlon's Razor seems apropos-- Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. It'd be extremely short-sighted of the police to intentionally send the public off in the wrong direction with a mass killer at large.
Another white guy posing as a Hispanic, or is it a Turk? A Muslim Turk?
Judge people by the content of their character. Principles matter.
The ball of yarns spun by class diversitists continues to unwind.
Typical Hillary supporter!!
When I hear of someone from a Muslim country murdering random strangers, I immediately jump to the conclusion that it's some kind of terrorist attack. That's how much my mind has been poisoned by Trump's rhetoric. Thank God we have the fair minded media who ask us to reserve judgment in these cases. Much as the events in Ft Hood and SanBernardino were cases of workplace violence, this will probably just turn out to be a domestic fight that got out of hand. I don't know where we'd be without the media and their earnest attempts to keep us not only informed but also tolerant and Democratic.
Interestingly the Ottomon Turks were defeated at Lepanto by a Spanish Admiral leading a Christian fleet. They were also stopped at the gates of Vienna by Hapsburg guys. If not for these two battles the Muslims would have taken France and England 500 years ago instead waiting to be surrendered to today by the European Union fools.
"he is far to the right of Trump in his political thinking. "
Open borders is "far to the right?"
Thank you @William for that insightful post. Just because a group, BLM,Muslim Terrorists, have stated publicly and repeatedly that they want to kill us and destroy our culture- isn't a good reason to jump to conclusions.
When one of the most bigoted and racist Presidents, and his party, tell me to be tolerant, I must obey. After all, I am white, and EVERYTHING is my fault.
The Ottoman Turks are but a footstool in world history.
Chuck and gadfly agree, Trump is just awful. Vote Hillary!!
Has anyone ever seen Chuck and gadfly in the same room?
Looking at pictures isn't a 100% accurate way of telling someone's ethnic background. Having said that, one glance at the fuzzy photo, and I thought not Hispanic, not at all. Every comment on every website I frequent, well over 100 comments before his name came out, and not one single comment anywhere said, "Yep, Hispanic." In fact, I thought middle eastern right off, just couldn't tag where. As did every comment on every website I frequent.
Sounds like someone decided to serve up some personal revenge, with a side dish of Jihad.
"If not for these two battles the Muslims would have taken France and England 500 years ago "
Don't forget Charles "The Hammer" Martel.
Without him it would be 1300 years,
Arab and Berber Islamic forces had conquered Spain (711), crossed the Pyrenees (720), seized a major dependency of the Visigoths (721–725),[7] and after intermittent challenges, under Abdul Rahman Al Ghafiqi, the Arab Governor of al-Andalus, advanced toward Gaul and on Tours, "the holy town of Gaul"; in October 732, the army of the Umayyad Caliphate led by Al Ghafiqi met Frankish and Burgundian forces under Charles in an area between the cities of Tours and Poitiers (modern north-central France[8]), leading to a decisive, historically important Frankish victory known as the Battle of Tours (or ma'arakat Balâṭ ash-Shuhadâ, Battle of the Palace of Martyrs), ending the "last of the great Arab invasions of France," a military victory termed "brilliant" on the part of Charles
His grandson was Charlemagne.
protests erupt on Twitter
" . . . the worst are full of passionate intensity."
I sure hope there won't be a backlash now.
First reports only called him Hispanic to describe his coloring and general look. Some people took it and ran with it to deflect attention from the jihad. I called it before they caught him. I told a Mexican friend I thought the perp looked like an Allahu Akbar, and I was right.
Johnson has far more experience in politics
Yah that's a bigtime winner.
Re Lepanto - Don Juan de Austria (a clue right there) was German actually, born in Regensburg, the illegitimate son of Charles V (German, mostly) and a local girl.
His fleet was of course multinational of which Spain supplied a minority (about 20%).
There was a Spanish contigent that formed part of the Vienna garrison during the siege of 1529. There probably were a few Spanish soldiers around during the siege of 1683 but did not have their own contigent, but they did shortly after have their own battalion of volunteers at the siege of Buda.
Jim Gust said...
"It was obvious from the photos they posted the guy was not Hispanic. It was just as obvious that it would have been politically incorrect to say "muslim" even though that turned out to be true. We all knew this without being told."
I agree. Calling him Hispanic at first was a good shorthand based on his coloring and GENERAL look, but I don't think he looked Hispanic, even in the fairly unfocused surveillance pic. I can generally tell Middle-eastern and South Asian people from Hispanics or those of other "social constructs".
Whatever happened to the descriptor "swarthy"?
Too close to "Die Schvartzes", as in:
"Die Schvartzes can't wait to get their EBT cards to be re-filled."
In other news, a man in Alaska shop-lifted a Diet Coke from a 7-11. He is reported by that web site that does genealogy to be 14% Polish, 42% French, and the rest they're really not sure of, so be on the look-out for someone looking mostly French. John Kerry has already been cleared.
My guess, the government school witnesses thought "Allahu Akbar" was Spanish.
The writers of the initial stories probably got the account from witnesses and the police. Given the witnesses, the demographics of the town, and the video- it is hard to imagine any other description being given in the story. The term "swarthy" has largely fallen out of use for mostly PC reasons.
Of course, I imagine a great number of people of a political bent were hoping he wasn't of middle eastern descent, while a those on the other side probably assumed he was. It still might not be a terrorist act by definition- depends, in my opinion, on whether he was there to kill particular person.
I sure hope there won't be a backlash now.
;-D
could have been any of twenty nationalities and described as Hispanic looking.
but we all discarded that possibility in about a nanosecond hopefuly
Well, I don't know, but I live in a big, diverse city and see lots of ethnicities every day, and those surveillance cam shots looked much more middle eastern than Hispanic to me. Not that I would have publicly committed either way But they could have just said "male, predominantly Caucasian, olive skin, black hair," and an estimated height and weight, which would have been more accurate and avoided the whole race thing.
As I said did not read accounts in detail, did not know he said Allah Akbar. Yes odds being Turkish he is Muslim. Read below:
Islam is the largest religion in Turkey according to the state, with 99.8% of the population being automatically registered by the state as Muslim, for anyone whose parents are not of any other officially recognised religion,[2] while other sources give a little lower estimate of 96.4%.[3][4] Due to the nature of this method, the official number of Muslims include people with no religion; converted Christians/Judaists; people who are of a different religion than Islam, Christianity or Judaism; and anyone who is of a different religion than their parents, but has not applied for a change of their individual records. The state currently does not allow the individual records to be changed to anything other than Islam, Christianity or Judaism, and the latter two are only accepted with a document of recognition released by an officially recognised church or synagogue.
Recent[when?] independent polls show dramatically lower percentages, with 9.4% being not religious at all. The same studies show that roughly 90% of irreligious people are younger than the age of 35.[5] Most Muslims in Turkey are Sunnis forming about 72%, and Alevis belonging to Shia denomination form about 25% of the Muslim population
The usual suspects are sad because he wasn't a white NRA member.
MayBee said...It's mostly interesting because law enforcement waits so long to describe someone to be muslim if that's who did the crime.
--
Harold said...one glance at the fuzzy photo, and I thought not Hispanic,
---
My antenna went up since the press was deviating from the norm of not initially disclosing race if a minority. But yes..with the spate of Hispanic rampages of late, easy mistake to default there. Wait..
Probably for the same reason that Lavish Reynolds identified a cop named Jeronimo Yanez as "Chinese."
In other news, when I saw the headline, "...identified as 20-year-old Arcan Cetin" I must confess I spent several minutes trying to figure out from where in the world Arcan Cetins hail. I wondered if it was a newfangled way of identifying people from Arkansas.
All very amusing. The guy obviously looked Middle Eastern, even in the grainy security camera footage, but you can't say that because racism or something. Too bad the Hispanics are offended, I guess they just found out that they're below Middle Eastern muslims on the victim hierarchy totem pole.
Too bad the Hispanics are offended, I guess they just found out that they're below Middle Eastern muslims on the victim hierarchy totem pole.
@Maguro, along with gays (c.f., Omar Mateen in Orlando).
I agree with you, sort of, that the guy never looked Hispanic to me at all; I have to wonder whether the people who identified Mr. Cetin as "Hispanic" have ever seen a real Hispanic. However to me he could have been Italian or Greek or Albanian and not necessarily from the southern or eastern side of the Mediterranean.
The FBI has been corrupted by Obama's PC narrative-building. They blew it in Boston, Orlando, and NYC big time. Why? Because they didn't just not profile, they un-profiled.
Obama's legacy will be ugly. He has been completely protected by the media but one day they will not. It isn't just him: it's the legacy of the liberal western world. Angela Merkel will fare no better.
I wonder how that report would have played out if this had happened in Phoenix.
“The suspect in the mall shooting was described as Hispanic . . . based on initial witness statements to the shooting at the mall.”
Who indeed? Apparently the ordinary people who witnessed the shooting. Is it too late to holster the conspiracy theories?
Why the FBI can't catch these guys in advance is because they look for keywords: Hispanic + Christian + Allah Akbar + terrorist websites + advocates violence + incited by radical mullah and/or woman. Nothing comes till after the attack when the FBI takes out Hispanic + Christian and then 'Oh, yeah, there he is'. But it could be worse. The FBI couldn't catch Hillary even after they knew about the crime.
Earnest Prole:
It is the differential treatment that gives pause. Name that party is fun because of the consistency of MSM treatment. This is no different.
buwaya puti has it exactly right. There’s a reason some Hispanics look like Middle Easterners and vice versa: Spain was once almost entirely Muslim.
Just think how much worse this could have been if it wasn't a gun free zone.
Are we talking about the island of Hispanola?
So, according to the rightwing-chagrined POV, it sounds like the only issue w/ police errors is mixing up folks from Mexico and folks form Muslim countries.
Carry on.
Btw, folks from other parts may not understand that this happened more in Canada than it did in Seattle.
Anywho, I was in the city this weekend, before getting back to country livin'. Even w/ very vocal libs who care more about losers living in tents than rich folks who make it all possible, it's a great place. IMHO, the best place. And, I know, even if they don't, that the libs' influence won't hold up in the long run. Not that cons are ever going to make the grade. But, the libertarian-Amazon-type POV is on the rise.
It's so awesome that of all the things that could be said about these murders, Althosue decides to focus on cops initially saying he seemed Mexican.
Althouse is the best of the internet, not to mention our 2016 society in general.
Good work!
NO PB&J statist - Hispanics will now be thrown under the bus just like Asians are thrown under the bus - all to cover for Islamic Terror. The hack media and the hack left will do this until the bitter end.
This act of terror did not occur in Canada. Close to the border, yes - but that does not make it "more in Canada" when a terror-crime occurs inside US borders.
A vote for Gary Johnson at this point is a vote for Perot - which is a vote for Clinton.
Is Peanut Butter saying that rich people are buying poor people tents -- because I think that's very kind.
Most Hispanics in WA state are of Mexican heritage. They don't resemble those of ME heritage at all. I guess one has to be around both groups enough to tell the difference but there is no way the guy in the video stills looked 'Hispanic'. For one thing, he didn't appear to have any visible tattoos. ;-)
Fabi asks: Is Peanut Butter saying that rich people are buying poor people tents -- because I think that's very kind.
While I'm not 'rich people', I have donated some very expensive camping gear to the homeless.
Ok April,
So making a fuss about cops initially making an error is actually a pro Asian way of making sure folks don't vote for Gary Johnson because HRC wants to give Muslim terrorists a pass.
P.S. I was meaning to reference geographical proximity. But thinking politically, April, you're a Seattle person (IIRC), so maybe you actually know what the politics of Oak Harbor are. I really don't (even though I mostly live in my, not too far away, Port Townsend house), but I'd assume it's more conservative than Seattle or Vancouver B.C.. Do you know?
"Is Peanut Butter saying that rich people are buying poor people tents -- because I think that's very kind."
I love the city, but I don't spend too much time in my house there (because I'm blessed to have three other options). But, I do try to follow the politics. It seems like there's a lot of debate where libs on the city council want to (using tax dollars, hence the rich folks paying) make it as posh as possible for homeless folks to live around the city in tents or broken down RVs (and these folks are unlike RVer mockT who doesn't roll up to the curb in front of someone's house so she can take drugs and crap in folks' yards).
Cascade Mall is my local mall. The incorrect description is simply Occam's Razor. Being an agricultural valley, we have a large, long-settled hispanic population, at least 20% in Burlington-Mount Vernon. There are almost no Muslims. I've never even seen a girl wearing a headscarf. I'm sure the witness just assumed dark skin & dark hair would be Hispanic. Then cops repeated the witness's description. BTW, it's 47 miles to Canada.
PB&J - What are you talking about? It an act of terror was committed in a more conservative area, it is because of conservatives?
WA-mom - who lives there - is probably accurate. Still, the media will do all they can to divert an Islamic suspect into something else.
April,
I don't even know if the Oak Harbor area is or is not more conservative than Seattle. That's why I asked.
"WA-mom - who lives there - is probably accurate. Still, the media will do all they can to divert an Islamic suspect into something else."
But, I think the dude was from Oak Harbor (which is on an island). This Burlington mall (or the Northern outlet malls on I-5) may be the go to mall for kids from Oak Harbor, but they're different communities. I think that we as, sorta, locals could help far away folks by noting these distinctions.
BTW, there's a Burberry outlet in that mall complex on I5. Sure, the pattern is too tacky for actually rich folks (unless it's only visible on the liner of a coat), but if you're the sort who thinks an MK or Coach or LV (w/ the monogram pattern) bag is a good thing, you may want to check it out.
What do you think the witnesses thought? I can tell you this- someone goes shooting and killing multiple people in a public area where I am at, my first thought on seeing Cetins isn't going to be that he was Hispanic. Would that be your first thought? Can you think of a reason why you would not say what you really thought?
sorter BP&J -- Rich folks make Islamic men want to kill innocent women. Can you blame them?
So PB&J - Mark Cuban is rich. I blame him.
Yancey Ward said...
What do you think the witnesses thought? I can tell you this- someone goes shooting and killing multiple people in a public area where I am at, my first thought on seeing Cetins isn't going to be that he was Hispanic. Would that be your first thought? Can you think of a reason why you would not say what you really thought?
9/25/16, 6:12 PM
____________
Absolutely not. We're talking about witnessing a mass murder.
HT,
If you had been a witness in the mall, how would you have described the killer?
You mean having seen all the pictures we have by now as opposed to that blur-fest on the video image? If the former, then, yeah, I'd probably have said Turkish/Armenian/one of the Caucuses (sp). In the video image, to me, it looks more like he's someone from Iraq or Syria.
But I know so many people from central Asia and I know so many people from Latin America, so I'm quite familiar with both.
I actually had several Turkish classmates and a Turkish professor in my MBA program ...
I thought they looked rather Italian! Turks may not look as one expects.
These are Turks -
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2014/02/turkey-life-battered-woman-2014257594926477.html
http://www.theeventchronicle.com/news/middle-east/turkish-womens-viral-protest-prime-minister-says-woman-shouldnt-laugh/#
These are Spaniards - the Montoya family of flamenco performers - one guess about certain cultural influences -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soC9dSB4UvY
More direct comparisons - Turkish womens basketball team -
https://www.google.com/search?q=turkey+womens+basketball&espv=2&biw=1600&bih=794&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiBzp7r1avPAhVK4SYKHVtCDwYQ_AUIBygC#imgrc=nkiTomWRuzDSSM%3A
Spanish womens basketball team -
https://www.google.com/search?q=turkey+womens+basketball&espv=2&biw=1600&bih=794&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiBzp7r1avPAhVK4SYKHVtCDwYQ_AUIBygC#tbm=isch&q=spain+womens+basketball&imgrc=ebIRSxsNiUj7vM%3A
HT,
So, why do you think Hispanic was the label used by the eyewitnesses and the police?
I really could not say, perhaps it was that they didn't have any familiarity to speak of with Central Europeans. Why do you think they did?
"It's not PC to say someone "looks" hispanic. But of course there is a look that some Hispanics have. This guy had that look and since there are a lot more hispanics than Turks in that area, that's how he was described.
Nothing more than that."
You have no idea how exquisitely, torturously, politically correct things get north of Tumwater. I know a barn full of people who, even though traumatized by a violent crime, would probably tip-toe around identifying a Muzzie terrorist as what he so obviously is. If it weren't for the 5 dead, the "Hispanic" equivocation would become a hilarious raging Internet meme celebrating liberal hypocrisy.
If you are suggesting that the witnesses - horrified and traumatized, in such a condition (you would think) that would strip one of all tendency to self-edit - did censor themselves anyway and, not wanting to offend, knowingly lied by saying the shooter was Hispanic when they knew he was not, well, then that's some crazy shit!
If you've conditioned yourself your entire adult life to believe a certain thing, does trauma obviate your conditioning or bring it into play?
Remember the German woman who was raped by Muzzies and deliberately misidentified them?
Why do we always think "Island of Hispanola" when we think of mass murderers in gun free zones?
1) That was one woman - didn't others correctly identify Muslim perpetrators? Or is the whole country cowed? 2) This is not Germany. 3) I'd like to hear more from the witnesses before I continue much more in this line of thinking.
The guy was on the loose, why in the sam hell would anyone want to throw the cops off the track????
What if it turned out the guy wasn't a Muzzie but you had identified him as such. Suddenly you're being excoriated on Crosscut and the Seattle Times for your Trunpian Islamophobia and well on your way to being a social pariah in your upper-middle class neighborhood and/or your government/tech job. Truly, I am not exaggerating. As I said I know a shitload of people who process everything through the filters of Liberal cognitive dissonance. It's a bit freaky but vastly entertaining as well.
The suspect said on his FB page that he's voting for Hillary. Funny how these guys are all Democrats. Doesn't that contradict Hillary's contention that ISIS is pulling for Trump?
Cracker, I can't really speculate to that degree. Not sure if everyone killed so far as we know would be classified as upper middle class, but maybe all the witnesses were. Anyway, the Hillary vote is not clear cut at all and it was still the primaries if I'm not mistaken, but at any rate he said we win I vote for Hillary. Not clear what that means, but hey speculate away!
He didn't gun down his ex-girlfriend. His ex-girlfriend had worked at the Macy's makeup counter but didn't anymore and wasn't there that day.
HT,
I was offering an example of the thinking so prevalent in these parts. Whether or not it fits the facts of this case I can't say for certain (though I know how I would bet). NW Washington State is a pretty cosmopolitan place, even in it's small towns. I don't think there's many who would confuse a Mexican with a Near or Middle Easterner.
Shit, our Cabela's have more ethnic diversity than most places DMV's.
Well, ok, I really have no idea other than what I'm reading, which is there are few if any 'middle easterners' in that area and that the town is 29% Hispanic - I think I read that on Althouse. I have heard Seattle is cosmopolitan. The smaller towns, I have heard, are conservative, more like the midwest, where indeed people *would* confuse a ME'er with a Hispanic (scroll through these comments), but really I don't know and should stop speculating.
There are three mosques in Everett and at least one in Bellingham. It's not as if there are no Muslims in the NW part of the state.
Saw the stills from the footage and my immediate thought was "not really that Hispanic looking." But what does stupid little me know?
Oak Harbor is mostly populated by people who work at the Whidby Island Naval Air Station. Thus, much more conservative than Seattle. I believe I read that the shooter worked at the PX. Skagit County (location of the mall) is also more conservative than Seattle: twice for Bush, then twice for Obama.
WA-mom,
Thanks for actual facts. In recent years, I've known two women from Burlington. One was insanely liberal. And the other one was certifiably insanely (if it's ok to say this about a bipolar person) libertarian. There are not words for the way the libertarian gal reacted to the failure of the original rEVOLution.
Anywho, thanks for a wider picture of the place.
I knew as soon as I saw the first photo that was no "Hispanic." Not even a white hispanic.
Latins don't cut their hair like that. The eyebrows, the nose... That's South Asian/ Mashriq/Machleb, or near to it.
That's a goddamned Skittle, baby!
Yes, I'll back up WA-mom on the demographics. I'm quite familiar with the Oak Harbor area. North Whidbey Island is quite conservative, mostly because of the Navy influence. Lots of signs up for the republican candidates in the local races, and the dems don't even identify themselves by party on their literature. It's a lovely place, really -- the beauty of Western Washington without the suffocating left-wing hive-mind of Seattle.
"It's a lovely place, really -- the beauty of Western Washington without the suffocating left-wing hive-mind of Seattle."
You may want to keep your distance from Port Townsend. Today I saw a full size cut out of BHO while I was driving on a (the?) main road in town. It turns out it was associated w/ the local D party headquarters.
Now for a different bent: Lefties go on and on and on whenever there is a mass shooting. Gun control. NRA are Hitler. Except when the shooter is a muzzie. Then not a single fucking peep.
Interesting that people think saying there are few Muslims in the area and lots of likely unlawful Latinos is a good defense.
If few Muslims and yet a Muslim perpetrator, how is that a good thing?
And how is an area so close to Canada with so many likely unlawful Latinos a good defense?
Both points are likely to work in Trump's favor.
"We simply went with the percentages and assumed it must be a Mexican or Guatemalan, YOU RACIST!" #Washingtonians
Curious George said...
Now for a different bent: Lefties go on and on and on whenever there is a mass shooting. Gun control. NRA are Hitler. Except when the shooter is a muzzie. Then not a single fucking peep.
9/26/16, 6:51 AM
You just couldn't be more wrong.
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