"... and 'Must Stop Trump," and chanting 'Trump is hate.' Traffic was backed up for miles, with drivers honking in fury. Protesters were also chanting, 'Donald Trump, shut it down, Phoenix is the people's town.'"
The anti-Trump protesters remind me of the anti-Walker protesters I saw here in Wisconsin in 2011. They seem so close to their own grievance and anger that they have lost track of how it looks and feels from farther back, and they unwittingly strengthen the target of their protest.
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८७ टिप्पण्या:
1968 all over again. The grandchildren making the same mistake.
I have a bad feeling this is going to end badly. So two dozen people can force their will on moderate people going about their daily lives. I would be mad, very mad if I were there waiting in my vehicle on that highway.
In the case of Wisconsin and anti-Trump protesters, you misread their aims. They don't really care about public unions, or whether there's a wall on the border. They just have to feel like they're heroic people saving the world from evil. It could be Walker, it could be Trump, it could be Justin Bieber; it's about them and not the target.
I think you know this, but try not to engage the concept because the reality is even more distasteful than their pretense. Scott Adams might say you're viewing it 2D instead of 3D.
In fairness to the protesters, "unwittingly" is probably the only way they ever do anything.
We need to find out who is behind this and future DEMonstrations.
I wonder how many are illegals?
Arizona, especially Tucson, is plagued with illegals. A friend of mine had his car stolen. He found out in less than an hour and they turned on the LoJack system. The car was already 50 miles into Mexico.
The fools are so important to the Trump campaign that people are going to start questioning if he is paying them.
It's like the rallies in Los Angeles with all the Mexican flags.
@coupe.. Enya...omg.. have not heard her in years..In fact had forgotten about her.
Two dozen? At least there were 300 at Thermopylae.
I think it is time that Republican "leaders" and some talking heads to stop blaming Trump for all this. These demonstrations are only adding voters to Trump totals. The more they yell and scream and block roads and venues, the more likely I am to vote for him.
Your husband, Larry is one of these fucking Nazis, Althouse.
Here's a direct quote from him posted at LEM's website:
"You don't watch porn while babysitting your grandkids do you, Steve?"
Accusations of child sexual and physical abuse have become commonplace in Woodstock, NY, where I live. The rape and DV hysteria gives Nazis like Larry wide open access to play the informant and accuse other men who don't endorse his bigotry mania and feminazi ideology.
I no longer even go out in public in Woodstock after several incidents of women trying to lure me into dating relationships for the express purpose of manufacturing abuse complaints against me. Neighbor informing against neighbor is epidemic in Woodstock. Larry would be right at home here playing the informant and stooge.
He made this accusation of child sexual abuse against me in a public forum, Althouse.
What in the fuck are you doing, living with this Nazi piece of shit?
I'll identify myself publicly for the purposes of this post, because Larry kinda gets a boot out of the notion that he's going to reveal my identity and shame me publicly. My name is Stephen Thomas.
What in the fuck are you doing with this Nazi piece of shit in your life, professor?
"...They just have to feel like they're heroic people saving the world from evil. It could be Walker, it could be Trump, it could be Justin Bieber; it's about them and not the target. ..."
You are right. It gives their meaningless existence purpose.
"They seem so close to their own grievance and anger that they have lost track of how it looks and feels from farther back, and they unwittingly strengthen the target of their protest."
I don't buy that. Alvarez and McGinty are out after BLM activists campaigned against their reelection.
"They seem so close to their own grievance and anger that they have lost track of how it looks and feels from farther back, and they unwittingly strengthen the target of their protest." Faux sadness, right? As if Progs ever cared what things looked like "from farther back" or what they did to their enemies, as long as they had a reasonable chance to destroy them.
Some one needs to adjust their meds.
They seem so close to their own grievance and anger that they have lost track of how it looks and feels from farther back, and they unwittingly strengthen the target of their protest.
And what grievance is that, Professor? Really, what have the people attempting to attend the rally done to them? Nothing, as far as I can see.
For that matter, what has Trump done to them? He's running for office and they don't like what they hear him saying? I have some seriously bad news for them -- notwithstanding anything they may have heard from anyone during their formative year, the world is not theirs to order as they see fit.
They got Al Capone on tax evasion. They better claim that Soros income on their tax returns.
Hillary and Bill are desperate shutting down the elections is extremism per se.
Civil War at its bloodiest could not shut down 1864. And a World War at its bloodiest could not shut down 1944. But George Soros guerillas can do it for 2016.
We need to wake up and vote.
Everybody was a couple of hours late getting somewhere. Kid's baseball game. Doctors. Airport. Work. Movies. Music lessons. Ice cream melting. Many people were in need of a restroom. Maybe hungry babies or young kids. Single moms taking kids to park. Maybe some cars overheated and were damaged.
It is a shame only three were arrested. Lots of people carry guns in AZ. Lucky no one was shot by somebody with a short fuse.
road blockers are scum. freeway/highway blockers are worse. let's increase the penalties; clearly they aren't high enough.
that said, i think they started blocking too late - people show up well before the start time.
"Scott Adams might say you're viewing it 2D instead of 3D."
This fascination with Scott Adams is rather silly. Yeah, he got something right about Trump but that doesn't give him some unique insight into human nature. The republican field was very split and Trump realized that he could easily mount a hostile takeover of the party, which is exactly what he did. Despite all this bluster about his popularity there have been lots of close state primary races and he's not exactly crushing it with key demographics. And this is STILL primary season. There has also been a big uptick in his unfavorable ratings.
At this point, Adams realizes that he has listeners and he's just throwing stuff at a wall to see what sticks.
100% of road blockers should be arrested. We need to empower cops.
I heard a new expression today referring to the demonstrators trying to shut down Trump rallys --
Bernshirts
I liked it.
"Scott Adams isn't so smart" detractors are boring.
Isn't this the very reason God invented tire irons? While the SJWs are chained to their cars it is a wonder their rides weren't pock marked.
I think Scott Adams would agree with me that the anti-Trump protesters are helping Trump. I think he'd make the additional guess that Trump was ingeniously causing the protests for his own benefit.
The protesters are also generating emotion and energy for their cause, but they are hurting their cause too. For one thing, they want us to think that Trump is a lout, a brute, who speaks in a crude, unthoughtful manner. But that's what they themselves are doing, so how can it be persuasive?
There's so much unthoughtful name-calling and emotional yelling. It negates the perception that Trump is this weird outlier. It's become the way everyone is talking: crudely.
The agitators are so delusional that they believe their actions are advancing their cause. Stupidity is its own punishment, I guess, but they need to be fully prosecuted for their crimes.
"You don't watch porn while babysitting your grandkids do you, Steve?"
Your Nazi husband, Althouse.
What in the fuck is wrong you that you're willing to associate with this piece of shit?
Enya...omg.. have not heard her in years..In fact had forgotten about her.
Lucky
Let's hear from you prof.
You endorse false accusations of sexual abuse of children for the sake of political gain?
I'm waiting.
24 protesters. Let me repeat twenty-four, 2-4, 24, protesters.
5,000 people show up to see Trump and we focus on 24 people. And who are they? Are they paid by Soros? Are they communists? Rosie fans? Are they just average peeps?
Why the lack of curiosity on the part of the MSM?
We've already seen the purpose of the protests. The purpose is to create an atmosphere of violence. So that when Trump's people react, the MSM can say "See Trump and his people are violent KKK, out-of-control dimwits."
The more sinister purpose is to intimidate Trump.
Have we heard the following yet?
Hey, hey.
Hey, ho
Donald Trump has got to go.
"I no longer even go out in public in Woodstock after several incidents of women trying to lure me into dating relationships for the express purpose of manufacturing abuse complaints against me."
OMG, hahahahahahaaah!
Amanda, another fucking Nazi, weighs in.
Sieg Heil, Nazi bitch!
Nyamujal said...
"Scott Adams might say you're viewing it 2D instead of 3D."
This fascination with Scott Adams is rather silly.
Apparently the man thinks that he is some kind of "meat robot."
The tradional means by which you keep a candidate from being elected, is by working hard to convince voters that your alternative candidate is a smarter choice.
Im guessing the protesters have already ruled this option out based on the quality of their candidate.
"Sieg Heil, Nazi bitch!"
Hey, stop being such a big girl's blouse. You need to get a new saddle on that bicycle of yours. Go for the leather, nothing beats leather. Get a rear-view mirror, too.
Steve, wouldn't Larry be more like a STASI than a NAZI?
Lawyerly silence probably is your best course of action, Althouse.
Stasi, Gestapo, take your pic.
You sleep with this piece of shit Althouse.
"But that's what they themselves are doing, so how can it be persuasive?"
Yep, it just like Rich Lowry at National review attacking Trump for "vulgarity" after gleefully claiming on TV that Carly had "cut Trump's balls off".
Amanda is more likely a communist than a Nazi. Both are left-wing ideologies but Amanda prefers communism when she is planning mass murder and mayhem. State ownership of property is better than state control of property, I believe Amanda believes.
Principles!
Blogger mishu said...
Steve, wouldn't Larry be more like a STASI than a NAZI?
What's the difference? Both German socialists
John Henry
These Red Front protests feed into Trump's theme of law and order. After 22 years of decline, violent crime is on the rise across the country. It increased 10% across the 25 most populous cities last year and is still increasing this year. This kind of shit was the reason that the GOP won 5 of 6 elections from 1968-1988. The Dems were soft on crime and law and order issues and tolerant of social decay. Red Front protestors and rise in violent crime. Trump has his finger on the pulse of the issues. He is dictating the issues in this election and everyone has to respond. He's got great anticipation of where things are going.
Blogger Birkel said...
State ownership of property is better than state control of property, I believe Amanda believes.
You can have ownership without control or control without ownership. (Or both or neither)
It makes no difference whether you or the govt "own" the property. If you do not control it it is not yours.
"Private property" as conceived under the liberalistic
economic order was a reversal of the true concept of
property. This "private property" represented the right of
the individual to manage and to speculate with inherited or
acquired property as he pleased, without regard for the
general interests ... German socialism had to overcome this
"private," that is, unrestrained and irresponsible view of
property. All property is common property. The owner is
bound by the people and the Reich to the responsible
management of his goods. His legal position is only
justified when he satisfies this responsibility to the
community.[90] [emph added-jrh]
Huber, _Verfassungsrecht des grossdeutschen Reiches_
(Hamburg, 1939) p. 288. (Constitutional Law of the Greater German Reich)
Cited in Readings on Fascism and National Socialism which I cited earlier in another thread.
Available at Gutenberg https://ia601407.us.archive.org/0/items/readingsonfascis14058gut/14058
John Henry
I think this story (linked to by Instapundit) - and others like it -- may be key to this election. How can you read a story like this and not think the Democrats' immigration policies are completely insane. http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_coverage/2016/03/illegals_held_in_vicious_framingham_rape
"The protesters are also generating emotion and energy for their cause, but they are hurting their cause too."
Maybe, but there isn't a lot of evidence that supports that hypothesis. Trump has a core group of supporters who'll support him even if he, in his words, shoots someone on 5th ave. They won't waver no matter what the protesters do. However, those who buy into his anti-free trade, anti-china and anti-immigration rhetoric will be dissuaded if the protests are successful. I imagine they think, "Look at the opposition he's generating, if he's elected, we'll have to deal with this level of opposition and disruption for 4 years!". This will happen if other candidates adopt/triangulate towards his positions.
"You sleep with this piece of shit Althouse."
Jesus Christ, calm down before you pop a vein. Have a drink and relax and watch some porn or something.
As Shouting Thomas said in a previous post, he "has a house paid off and is retired", so basically he has all the time in the world to heap abuse on the Prof and everyone else. He's a true Trump supporter. Trump is also just an internet troll running for office. Facts don't matter, logic doesn't matter. They just spout senseless, illogical nonsense 24-7.
I suspect Shouting Thomas is Michael Savage. Just a hunch, but it seems quite likely.
John Henry:
You want to try reading what I wrote instead of pretending?
Please, do.
I don't think that Trump engineered this. And, indeed, I don't think that anyone really did. No George Soros, or Hillary Clinton (yet, for either one). I do think that it does help Trump. The dynamic I almost expect for the rest of the election season is that the protesters will soon be paid, as they apparently were for Walker, and in other cases in the fairly recent past, and the more they protest, the better the Republican nominee does (esp if it is Trump), and the Republican nominee doubles down, and the more the protesters protest. Realistically, the protesters should be protesting Hillary's inside win over Sanders, to mimic their 1968 convention. That way, better thinking Americans could ignore the convention violence. But, this time, I think the violence is going to follow the Republicans instead. Yes, it will be left wing crazies (as usual), but Trump is much more fun to protest than robotic Hillary.
I do think that it will help Trump (or whomever the Republicans nominate). I can say that the more this happens, the stronger my support seems to be. And, I hope that a lot of those protesting today ended up wearing Arpaio's pink underwear tonight.
What are you talking about, Birkel?
John Henry
It's not even April and people are in a panic that Mrs Clinton can't win.
The Hillary camp must be thrilled to hear about this.
According to the Adams theory (which I'm not completely sold on but, like the professor, find interesting enough to follow), the hierarchy of persuasiveness has reason at the bottom and identity at the top.
The protestors may realize that their efforts are counterproductive here and at the Chicago rally that was shouted down, that reason tells us it helps Trump. But their identity is "protester," so they must protest and make spectacles of themselves. That is their true goal, not electoral or policy success.
From a distance, it seems absurd that an armed populace would stand there while someone gets in their personal space, i.e. less than 2 feet, gets in their face and yells, covering them with spittle.,vectors of who knows what diseases. Time to send in public health. Oh that's right, there's no health in public health anymore, just graft and television or internet porn on every desk. And when someone threatens to remove them the federal unions revolt. Nice place you got, then again "got" implies ownership, sorry I forgot to ask the BLM if they'd let me continue to borrow the homestead where my family and ancestors that built this country has been living since the 1800s. I'm into fantasy, so what would I do about those that would block the public roads in "protest." I'd hand out those little valve covers that bleed out air, get a few of our Teamsters union members who can deadlift 200 lbs and carry it 10 feet, put on the air bleeders, and move their cars into the ditch, very "peacefully" and wait for the commies to throw the first punch. And then deal with it. Well, ok, just use those plastic box straps to hogtie them and then sit by, drink something cold, piss on the hill upstream of where they are flopping around on the ground, and wait for their urge to go to the restroom take its course. An eye-for-eye counter protest. Ok, it's a fantasy, but if your pTb is accused of inciting riots, he might just as well encourage his voters to do something useful. Plus it would employ a lot of his garage mechanic friends, people that get up early and work hard for next to nothing, struggling with their rent while the fat cats on Wallstreet light their cigars with Wilson's. It's wonderful when pTb, a traitor to his class respects and honors those garage mechanics and reserves and expresses his contempt for the establishment and their bernshiirts.
"I think this story (linked to by Instapundit)..."
Hey, I blogged that before Instapundit did.
Marijuana withdrawal symptoms....
"Irritability... Anxiety... Depressed mood... Restlessness...."
"...they have lost track of how it looks and feels from farther back..."
Like several others, I don't think they really care. I think they are brutish louts who revel in conduct and images which offend the majority on either side, thus, for instance, the growing meme of using language connecting Trump and feces. To a 14 year old, quite funny.
Who is this Thomas guy? He forget his meds today or what?
Oh, forgot...read the Washington Post...the protesters blocked the road "for a brief time." Nothing to see here. All that.
Gotta love that factual reporting.
"Getting Off the Pot."
I'm eight months pregnant. If I were stuck in traffic behind those morons blocking the road, I'd happily exit my car, drop trou and pee on their shoes.
Don't get between pregnant women and a bathroom.
Don't get between pregnant women and a bathroom.
Or any women, actually. (Then again, if you hadn't misplaced your pants, you might not be pregnant now, right?)
Something to remember, those arrested for blocking traffic will spend a very unpleasant weekend in the Phoenix drunk tank. It's hot there already and tequila puck adds a fitting top note.
those road blockers are going to give Trump Arizona in a landslide.
As to dealing with dangerous mobs, the informed citizen should recall the disposition of such thugs during the "Nike Riots".
You can "protest" a government action.
Blocking a political opponent's rally is just that; there is no "protest" involved. Just opposition.
"For one thing, they want us to think that Trump is a lout, a brute, who speaks in a crude, unthoughtful manner. But that's what they themselves are doing, so how can it be persuasive?"
-- I assume that their target audience is NOT the undecided person or the person on the other side. It is their own in group, either to signal "I'm one of us," or to say, "Hey, don't get out of line."
Something to remember, those arrested for blocking traffic will spend a very unpleasant weekend in the Phoenix drunk tank. It's hot there already and tequila puck adds a fitting top note.
Thanks to Sheriff Joe's involvement, I had been assuming that they would spend the weekend in the somewhat infamous Maricopa county lockup, with the pink underwear and "loaf" for food, high in carbs and, I believe, saltpeter, to reduce aggression. I have been told by those who know, that those arrested for a second or third time for felonies want to process out of Maricopa county and into DOC as fast as they can.
@ AA -
Explains a lot.
Someone else used 'lout' too. A fine descriptive for such coarse behavior although I used it for the protestors and someone else for Trump. Also explains a lot about today. Ths is going to be a great election cycle for political ads. I'm going to catch up on a lot of reading, 19th century Russian fiction most likely, just so I don't run short (bleh).
"they unwittingly strengthen the target of their protest."
geniuses, they aren't.
What I wonder is why didn't the people in their cars just drive across the median and go around those protesters? Seriously? Just go. The protesters were chained to their vehicles. It isn't like they could give chase :-)
Fullmoon makes a great point that the protesters never seem to consider.
Everybody was a couple of hours late getting somewhere. Kid's baseball game. Doctors. Airport. Work. Movies. Music lessons. Ice cream melting. Many people were in need of a restroom. Maybe hungry babies or young kids. Single moms taking kids to park. Maybe some cars overheated and were damaged.
Not everyone on that freeway is a Trump supporter. Many may even be supporting (or were supporting) candidates that the protesters like. However, by inconveniencing for NO purpose, other than imposing their ideology on a group of innocent strangers, the protesters have (as Althouse points out) strengthened their enemy. May have even created new Trump voters.
We need a new word for these people -- protestors want their message heard.
These people want the other guy's message *not* to be heard.
It's exactly the opposite thing.
I'm not saying those chained to their cars should have been raped with a cactus, but it would have been funny.
@Dust Bunny Queen -- the area around the right shoulder (divided highway) was not conducive to traffic. It looked like the left shoulder was a culvert, so the same problem.
An effort to deny civil rights, intimidate a class of individuals, and suppression through threat of violence is classified as a hate crime. I wonder if Obama and Lynch will respond to this hate mob, or will they support it as at least Obama has done in previous class conflicts.
we need to know where these people are from. Are they locals, or from the outsiders? Are they being paid? If they are college students, who is paying for their tuition? Who owned the cars? Where were the tow trucks? Why not drive around them?
And yes, as a physician, I would worry about these people blocking a road. Any babies born in the traffic jam? Heart attacks?
What I wonder is why didn't the people in their cars just drive across the median and go around those protesters? Seriously? Just go. The protesters were chained to their vehicles. It isn't like they could give chase :-)
I live nearby. These protestors picked their location carefully, where the divided road passes through a rocky canyon that offers no possibility for traffic diversion. The median is an actual curb with a dirt strip containing a lot of trees, bushes, and cactus. A high clearance vehicle willing to do a fair bit of damage to the vegetation in the median could turn around and go back, but most of them were absolutely stuck.
The traffic was stuck for about 90 minutes on a hot day, and backed up for two or three miles. The entrance to the Mayo Clinic was blocked and people missed their doctors' appointments. A trailer load of horses got overheated. Local news stations saw comments on the stories that ran at least 50-1 against the road blockers, with frequent references to bulldozers, flame throwers, and machine guns.
This being Arizona, where anyone can carry a gun in a vehicle and many people do, I'm really astonished that there was not a more ugly confrontation.
"They seem so close to their own grievance and anger that they have lost track of how it looks and feels from farther back"
Shouting Thomas lives
Hey..are there any known instances of folks threatening folks with Trump signs in their windows..a la Madison bed-wetters?
No Trump voters allowed Junction landlord screens renters based on politics
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