From the deposition of Bill Cosby, in the case of Andrea Constand, which the NYT says is "different" from many of the other accusations.
While dozens of women have come forward with accusations of sexual misconduct by Mr. Cosby, the Constand case is unique, not only because it is the singular case that has resulted in criminal charges, but also because there exists so many documentary, albeit conflicting, accounts of what took place....By "documentary," I think the NYT means only that the statements of the 2 witnesses were reduced to writings and these writing still exist.
There is a handwritten statement Ms. Constand gave to investigators in 2005, her federal lawsuit filed later that year and Mr. Cosby’s own words, spoken during four days of sworn testimony in that suit in the fall of 2005 and the spring of 2006.ADDED: The quoted word "different," in the second paragraph of this post appeared in the headline of the article at the time when I wrote this. Later, the headline was "In Bill Cosby Case, 3 Pills, Sips of Wine and a Charge of Sexual Assault." I didn't save the original headline, but it said that the Constand case was "different" from "many" other accusations. You can see that the text of the article — blocked and indented above — calls the Constand case "unique."
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This makes me sad.
Cosby was one of the truly good role models for black men. Family, work, pull your pants up, take responsibility, etc.
Now it's shot to hell. All men, and black men in particular, need these kinds of role models. I say black men in particular because so many of them, in particular, grow up in menless households.
I felt the same when the Paterno story came out.
Of course, the Cosby thing also makes me sad because of the memories I had, not of his show so much, but of seeing his stand up and listening to his records when I was young. Ah well.
Bill Cosby's misbehavior is alleged to have gone on for decades, if not his entire adult life.
But word of this did not get around in the notoriously gossipy entertainment world until now?
Other than that, the comparisons with Bill Clinton are arguments for likewise prosecuting Bill Clinton, even if it is late, not for letting Cosby go free.
Bill Cosby should be treated like Bill Clinton. There is one big difference though. Cosby said some conservative sounding things about the black family.
Cosby still thinks he was loved by the sweet women he drugged into being dead bodies for his pleasure because they were temporarily confused when the woke up. If they did not remember it completely, then it never happen.
That would have worked in Bill Clinton's world. It does not work worth a damn now.
Cosby sure as hell remembers it. The level of detail in his description is remarkable, and somehow I don't think he was making it up. It's spooky.
"Bill Cosby's misbehavior is alleged to have gone on for decades, if not his entire adult life.
But word of this did not get around in the notoriously gossipy entertainment world until now?"
Who says it didn't? It just didn't hit the papers. No one in the "entertainment world" was shocked because it wasn't an unusual story?
The behavior Cosby is charged with is weird. If the charges are substantiated in court, is there a psychiatric defense?
And if Cosby is convicted of the charges levied against him, that still does not in any way say that he was wrong in telling young black men to get their pants off the ground.
I get the feeling that this is what a lot of the schadenfreude in the media is about; they did not like to hear a black man say that.
Oh ugh. Why did I click on and then read the link? I resolve for the New Year to stay far away from Cosby details.
Hagar said...
The behavior Cosby is charged with is weird.
It doesn't make sense to most people but it does happen. Darren Sharper, a famous football player, recently plead guilty to substantially identical accusations. Normal people don't get this because the only reason we even understand for sexual assault is the alternative being no sex at all. But obviously there are some broken minds that work differently.
More "he said, she said" in the sexual assault world of today. Given the other accusations one has to mostly believe the woman, but I have trouble believing that she was not in some way complicit (no, I am not trying to blame the victim.) How can you be oblivious that another person's interest in you has a sexual component? Men are not particularly subtle about their approach to sex, yet this gal walks blindly into Bill's trap. Makes me suspicious.
didn't finish all of the tea.
If she had only finished the tea......
Bu bu what about Bill Clinton???????????
Hell hath no fury like another black comedian with a vendetta. This all sprung back to life after Hannibal Buress eviscerated Cosby on stage over his "holier than thou" attitude despite his past documented run-ins with the law. These were not new accusations, but Buress brought it into the spotlight. There is no Buress to bring focus to Clinton's dalliances. Lucky to be a Clinton.
"Bu bu what about Bill Clinton???????????"
Yeah, it's embarrassing to have to give a deposition in a civil lawsuit brought over a sexual encounter. That's one reason to settle.
I am tired of hearing about Bill Cosby. Hey Cos'? How about just go away. Please. Just find a hole to crawl into and leave us alone. I don't even care about the rights and wrongs of these allegations.
I used to be a big Cosby fan from back in the days of I Spy, his comedy albums, his TV appearances, Fat Albert.
Then came that Huxtable show where he tried to make child abuse funny. How many real life fathers took his acting as the way to be a father? After all, everybody said that this was a great family. How many kids were fucked up in real life by those fathers?
Loving family? BULLSHIT! A dog should not be treated the way son Theo was.
Some comics might say "I didn't realize." Cosby earned a doctorate in education. He knew. Some comics might say "I needed the work. If I had not done it someone else would have." Never a moral excuse but even less so in Cosby's case. He had the power to stop it.
Screw you Bill Cosby. I don't know the wrongs and rights of the sex allegations but perhaps this is just a case of karma, belatedly, coming around to bite you in the ass. Good on you, karma. Chomp away.
John Henry
It's entertainment for women.
Bill Cosby's proclivities were an open secret in Hollywood. He had the protective shield of political correctness working for him. As one of the women stated, she didn't want to level a rape accusation against one of the most beloved and revered men in America. They would more likely believe her to be some kind of shake down artist or racist than that Cosby was a rapist.......It was Cosby who stepped outside the political correctness shield when he started criticizing the fashion choices of young black men. If he had not done that, he would still be collecting money from residuals and receiving awards.......,Still, he was lucky. You can only drug so many women before one of them becomes nauseous and chokes on her vomit. Then you're stuck with one of those embarrassing corpses. Only someone as politically correct as Teddy Kennedy can walk away from a corpse with his reputation intact.
John Henry watched a different Cosby Show than did I.
I'm curious, garage: are you genuinely trying to hold Bill Cosby against the Right somehow, or just dismissive of/mocking efforts to tie the Cosby story to the Clintons? If the former, I think you have your work cut out for you--Cosby campaigned for Jessee Jackson, endorsed Hillary Clinton for Senate (spoke at an event for her, even), supported Al Gore for President...and so on.
I get that we're all picking sides and affirming tribal membership, here, but I'm not sure it makes any sense to say Cosby was a Right-y if that's what you're trying to do.
William said...Only someone as politically correct as Teddy Kennedy can walk away from a corpse with his reputation intact.
Intact hell, he became the lion of the Senate, his reputation INCREASED afterwards; they're making a movie about Chappaquiddick now! If you'd like to bet that the movie will portray Kennedy harshly I'm sure you can find plenty of people to take that action.
Then came that Huxtable show where he tried to make child abuse funny. How many real life fathers took his acting as the way to be a father? After all, everybody said that this was a great family. How many kids were fucked up in real life by those fathers?
Did I miss a "very special episode" or something?
Intact hell, he became the lion of the Senate, his reputation INCREASED afterwards; they're making a movie about Chappaquiddick now! If you'd like to bet that the movie will portray Kennedy harshly I'm sure you can find plenty of people to take that action.
Didn't the director already say it'll deal with what HE had go through?
And I don't assume he means "the driver's side window when he escaped and left her to die"
"are you genuinely trying to hold Bill Cosby against the Right somehow, or just dismissive of/mocking efforts to tie the Cosby story to the Clintons?"
Every single thread that remotely portrays a right winger in a negative light is inevitably met with "bu bu what a bout this left wing figure????"
Every single time.
not to mention, the volunteering he did for Andropov and Chernenko,
http://www.steynonline.com/7394/predators-for-hillary
Teddy and Chris Dodd even made waitress sandwiches. Right there.
Poor Cosby. I still like his comedy albums and think that, until Bill Clinton is prosecuted, he is getting punished for sounding just a tiny bit conservative.
Hollywood is awash in sexual escapades and any girl who went to a private meeting with one of these guys was in the know.
The poor girl who went home with Phil Spector would have traded places with any of these women being paraded around by Gloria Allred.
On February 3, 2003, actress Lana Clarkson was found dead in Spector's mansion (the Pyrenees Castle) in Alhambra, California. Her body was found slumped in a chair with a single gunshot wound to her mouth with broken teeth scattered over the carpet.[62] Spector told Esquire Magazine in July 2003 that Clarkson's death was an "accidental suicide" and that she "kissed the gun"
If the case is different enough that the judge will preclude evidence from the other accusers to show MO or some such, it is really a loser.
And what's with the million dollar bail?
garage mahal said...Every single thread that remotely portrays a right winger in a negative light is inevitably met with "bu bu what a bout this left wing figure???
Thanks for the response but I'm not sure it addresses question I wanted to ask--do you think Cosby is a "right winger"?
Sure, though, it's a strange combination of tiresome and humorous when a partisan always tries to tie any news item in to some insult against their political opponents, for sure.
I wonder if Scott Walker ever said anything nice about Bill Cosby...
So Cosby is accused of raping Hippie Jesus from Godspell?:
http://www.la.com/ci_29324299/rape-charge-bill-cosby-pennsylvania?source=rss
Birkel, Damisek,
Yes, we were watching the same Cosby show. It was not a special, it was pretty much every show.
You are making my point for me, as have others over the years when I have brought this up. By treating abusive parental behavior as comedy fodder, complete with laugh tracks, it gave too many people the idea that it was not not abuse but acceptable fatherly behavior.
It was not physical abuse. I don't think even Cosby could play that for comedy. It was verbal abuse, telling young Theo over and over and over in many different ways how stupid he was.
Theo looked up to his father and believed him. After all, his father was Cliff Huxtable, America's dad. A very smart man. A real Theo in this situation would grow up believing that he really was stupid, even though he did not seem to be on the show.
That is child abuse of the worst kind. Physical beatings heal. This kind of thing screws a person up for a lifetime. How many men, and women, saw Cosby's behavior on the show, figured he was being touted as a role model and emulated him? How many children got abused as a result of that show?
And probably most of the abusive parents never even realized they were being abusive. If the Cos' did it for laughs, it must be OK.
Rot in Hell, Bill Cosby.
Caveat: I am not saying that Theo didn't do some dumb things, some of which could legitimately be played for laughs. I have no problem with that. Nor do I have a problem with Cosby pointing out that he did dumb things as appropriate. I would have a big problem if he did not.
Telling a kid that they did something dumb is way different from telling them that they are dumb.
John Henry
Gosh, if that was child abuse, I was a victim, too. I just never noticed. Somebody had better tell "Tiger Mom," which might be actual child abuse.
seriously, it was a counter to the different strokes and other shows, where parents were so understanding, and the kids knew what was happening, more in the father knows best mold,
So I guess Garage found the key to the scotch cabinet.
Anyway, I still don't like the "he must be guilty because a lot of people are making the accusation" logic, especially for for a public figure like that. They get a new DA in Pennsylvania and all of the sudden an eleven year old case becomes chargeable.
He may be guilty or maybe not, but what kind of evidence can they possibly have to support a criminal charge?
"But word of this did not get around in the notoriously gossipy entertainment world until now?"
Hollywood is amazingly insular. The so called Hollywood press is just as, if not more, complicit in hiding secrets now as in the heyday of the studio system. The reason is simple; if they don't hide the secrets, they are blacklisted by the Hollywood machine.
Actors and well known directors and producers also keep their mouths shut because they don't want to burn bridges (and, in many cases, they know the real reason a movie became a disaster and/or was saved.) Producers can often handle the problem personalities on-the-set using various methods, not limited to personal handlers and threats to contracts, but their power is limited.
Some problem personalities, like Bill Cosby and Charlie Sheen, explode spectacularly. Others, like Steve McQueen and John Wayne, don't.
Wow! So many people are assuming guilt here.
I think it's going to be hard to find an unbiased jury, because of all the media attention and out of court statements of many people who have accused him of rape. But we have to be careful not to convict Cosby with a trial-by-media. We know how biased and unfair that is!
One of the things that is happening in criminal law is that we are changing the definitions of rape. It used to be defined as a forcible and non-consensual sexual encounter. We are in the process of removing "force" from the definitions of rape. This is a big deal, because many of us think of rape as a violent crime. And now we're expanding it to include non-violent sexual encounters.
In my opinion, secretly giving a woman a date rape drug, like Rophenol, would fit under the classic definition of rape, since that is a secret attack, like poisoning somebody. I have no trouble seeing that accused crime as a rape.
But we're expanding the definition of rape, so that now many people believe that having sex with intoxicated people is rape. If this is the case, I was raped multiple times by women in college. I think this is ridiculous. But who knows, if there was a whole industry of counselors and teachers indoctrinating me to believe that I was victimized by these women, maybe I would believe it.
Anyway, I resist the idea that having sex with intoxicated or drunk people is rape. If that's the case, let the mass prosecutions begin. Let's start the show trials.
You might want to re-read that transcript, only this time substitute "and then I gave her three martinis" for the blue pill discussion.
This is not to say that Cosby is innocent. To me it's an important factual dispute. Cosby says he gave her an anti-histamine. The prosecution is alleging that he gave her a date rape drug.
So to me that's a very important part of the case. What was in the drugs? Did he have a prescription? Did he take these drugs himself, as he testified? Are there any witnesses to Cosby taking blue pills?
Based on the really old Cosby special (dad is great. Give us the chocolate cake) it sounded like mrs. Cosby was the unhinged one.
Cosby has said different things. He tod her, she says, it was a herbal something. He told the police it was benadryl. He told her mother he didn't remember what it was.
She collected a lot of money from him.
I was shocked to read that the number of women alleging that Cosby has raped them has reached 50. One newspaper said "almost 60."
The other thing that surprised me is that the defense is alleging that the prosecutor (who is newly elected) ran for office on a platform that he would prosecute Bill Cosby.
Is that true? Working the google, I find out that the answer is yes. That's a very strange thing, and an ugly thing, making a campaign promise to arrest and prosecute a citizen.
This reminds me a bit of how the Durham district attorney used the Duke Lacrosse players in his election campaign. That prosecutor, by the way, was disbarred and sent to prison.
I feel like there was a racial component in Nifong's campaign. He was running on the symbolism of a a bunch of rich white boys raping a poor black woman. He was trying to stoke racial outrage and anger. And he won the office (in a majority-black district) by doing so.
Now think about this campaign. The races are flipped around. Now it's a rich black actor, and the prosecutor is campaigning (in a district that is 80% white) that he raped a poor white woman. Is this a similar game? Read up on the Scottsboro boys sometime. And contemplate that there are many, many people in our society who today insist that those boys are guilty, since nobody ever lies about rape.
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