१७ डिसेंबर, २०१५
"Hello Darlin'."
I watched this twice and had a completely different interpretation of the song the second time around. The first time, I thought it was sad. The second time... evil!
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One might assume that's the sort of manipulative crap that got her dumped the first time. If, that is, you want to take a typical country song as a little moral universe, which probably isn't too far from the intent.
Now go try George Jones singing "He Stopped Loving Her Today." Play it all the way through to the punch line. Perhaps better yet, try Alan Jackson's treatment of the song at Jones' funeral.
Just out of curiosity, what prompted you to watch it the first?
Evil, because why? The singer is guilt-tripping his old love? Well, but you know what they say about all being fair in love and war. By the way, aside from anything else, this a lousy song.
OK so a Conway Twitty song which might have something to do with it all that old fashioned male stuff in the female voice in 2015.
Yeah, I'm thinking there's a dead bunny in a pot on the stove.
Shoot fire Ann, that's the song that built Twitty City.
The expansion of rights in a culture can never be evil.
We'll enshrine in legal rights every feeling we have, until we are no longer capable of feeling anything at all.
Passive aggressive, I'd say, but I don't see the evil.
Oh come on, how can a song written by Possum Jones be "evil"?
But the story is that he's moved on, and she asks for just one more roll in the hay, and I guess that's "evil". And it sounds like she got it.
Still almost anything by Loretta Lynn is worth listening to.
"Just out of curiosity, what prompted you to watch it the first?"
Meade came home and happened to say "Hello, darling" and then only after saying it connected it to the song.
I listened to the Conway Twitty version first, but the Loretta Lynn version made a much bigger emotional impact on me.
By the way, Twitty looks like Rush Limbaugh.
All's fair in love and war, but some people care more about the casualties than others.
Ms. Althouse -
I think you have it backward; Rush Limbaugh looks like Conway Twitty. By the time Rush Limbaugh became famous, Twitty had already moved on to a more ... shall we say ... contemporary look complete with a perm, upturned collar and a jaunty scarf.
Check out his mid-80s album covers.
As a song, your reaction proves the merit of the song itself. The song achieved an emotional reaction because it painted a picture, whether you like it or not. That is what makes it art.
To the same extent, a lot of early rap music painted stories and drew mental images. That is what made early rap music so powerful as an art form. Dislike the message or not, the music was interesting because it caused the listener to react.
But like all artistic criticism, it is subjective whether judging beauty or depravity.
I saw Conway and Loretta at the Mid-South Coliseum in Memphis in 1971. It was a big deal for my parents and I am glad, now, that I went and that I got to see those two. I didn't feel that way at the time. I was 12 and that was the last time I went to an event like that with them.
No evil. You are overthinking. It's just a normal country song.
You could land a C-130 on Conway's hair.
It's the upslope that keeps 'em from falling off the end.
Humans that love humans are the luckiest humans in the world until someone leaves. But that loyalty thicket that caught you at the emotional level just won't leave when you the other one leaves you. It is eternal, and that is as sad as it gets.
Men and their loyal dogs have been one answer for 30 million years.
My point is that the meNing of the lyrics shifted dramatically for me. First, I thought of her as very regretful for spoiling the relationship and benevolent toward her old lover as he had a good new life with a woman who was loyal to him.
On second listen, I thought it was obvious that she intended to sexually inflame him and steal him away from her.
As Meade put it, "She is Jolene."
Tell Meade to leave Patsy Cline out of this. This is Christmas. Just play the Dolly Parton's Islands in the Stream duo with Kenny Rogers and be happy.
I get a sort of threatening tone or aspect to it. Maybe that says something about me? A Rorschach song?
Thus the Fatal Attraction bunny reference.
I saw them (Conway and Loretta) at Freedom Hall in Louisville around the mid seventies and they really put on a good show. They both were at their peak then.
It works as the first when Twitty sings it. The second with Lynn. Just an illustration of the gender force asymmetry in the war of the heart. D.GOOCH
Here's a newer one, same idea, Trisha Yearwood. Less threat? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W-4-XWKsVg
You have it exactly right: both meanings are present, and the balance shifts toward the second meaning as the song progresses.
AA says, "As Meade put it, "She is Jolene.""
That doesn't sound like a good thing.
When can we talk about Bruce being tired of being a girl? Didn't even make it a year.
http://starmagazine.com/photos/caitlyn-jenner-sex-change-reverse-bruce/photo/249255/
Her body, her choice. Right, Althouse?
If that fish wants a bicycle, who are you to judge?
> "She is Jolene."
I heard Dolly Parton talk about the origins for the song Jolene. She was a very flirty bank teller that they encountered early in their marriage.
"On second listen, I thought it was obvious that she intended to sexually inflame him and steal him away from her."
And then probably cheat on him again when she has him back.
Its nice to see our attorney general in her younger days. I always loved her as a singer. As an AG, not so much.
John Henry
I'm fine with evil if it means the same thing as "fallen" or "human." I think that country music gets the essentially conservative point of man as imperfect, sinful, fallen, etc. Leftism clings bitterly to its Utopian fantasies.
Best country song lyric ever. Written by Steve Goodwin, sung by David Allan Coe:
Well, I was drunk the day my mom got out of prison
And I went to pick her up in the rain
But before I could get to the station in my pickup truck
She got runned over by a damned old train
[Chorus:]
And I'll hang around as long as you will let me
And I never minded standing' in the rain
No, a' you don't have to call me darlin', darlin'
You never even call me
Well I wonder why you don't call me
Why don't you ever call me by my name
It's country music Ann. It has layers, like Shakespeare does, or Homer. It's about life, and it's written, or at least inspired, by people who are closer to life than law profs like you (or lawyers like me). Listen to it.
This is how "done him wrong" songs are supposed to end...
Frankie reached down in her pocketbook
And up with a long forty-four
She shot once, twice, three times
And Johnny fell on the hard wood floor
Aw...he was a man alright
But she shot him because he was doing her wrong
If Bruce decides he prefers being a guy, does he have to give up his Woman of the Year crown?
Is there a runner up to step in like in Miss America?
How does Glamour handle it in their list of Women of the year? Do they put an asterisk?
*Changed her/his mind
John Henry
I'm sorry, but Loretta is one of the greats of all time. I mean this is country music, for cryin' out loud. It's all about betrayal, desperation, self-pity, lost love, violence, jealousy, as well as sin and redemption galore. Come on. Every one of us has been there.
From my favorite bluegrass group, Detour, over here in Michigan, "I'm Too Blue to Have the Blues."
Don't wanna sing about leavin'
Somebody done somebody wrong
Whinin' cryin' and grievin'
A lyin' cheatin' stealin' drinkin' song
I'm too blue to have the blues
I can' t see up that far
I don't need to read the news
To know my world has fallen apart
I'm too blue to have the blues
Perhaps Influenced by the "evil" characterization, I concluded that she was singing to his corpse. A recent corpse.
Steve Goodman's own rendition:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hsa5IiNjIkQ
I like the Conway version better but I've always liked Loretta. I bought the Jack White produced album of hers from a few years ago and bought it for my mother, as well. It was a great record but got nearly zero country radio play. The only time the children had no say so whatsover on the TV channel playing was Saturday afternoon when both Mother and Daddy would watch the Porter Waggoner Show, Faron Young, etc. religiously. Unless Daddy was out drinking. When he left to drink, he would leave on Fri. afternoon after he got off work and he would come back home on Sunday morning while we were at Church. And we ALWAYS went to Church when he was out drinking.
I camped once or twice in Hurricane Mills, TN which is just over the TN River as you enter Middle Tennessee from West Tennesse, right off I-40. Loretta lives there and has for years. Doolittle "Mooney" Lynn used to ride his jeep around their ranch. I was riding horses there with a few other people and he pulled up to us and turned his jeep off and talked to us a little bit. This was probably about 1983 or so. He was a pretty nice guy. Liked to drink, too. He died in 1996.
Ann, it's clear you were not brought up in the country music culture that Loretta Lynn embodies. This is one of the great songs sung by a true genius and written by another. It is neither evil nor is it intended to inflame. It very likely is a monologue on the part of the singer as were many of the songs of this era and meant as an internal dialogue if song by one person.
Conway Twitty and Loretta used to do this as a duet and it is a standard in country music. Country music has constantly changed from its beginnings and this is a song from one of the golden eras. (Of course, I would say this as I enjoy this era the most and grew up with WSM.)
Wow. I don't know why some of you are assuming that I didn't appreciate the quality of the song. As if liking the character is liking the song! I'm saying the woman is trying to do some evil, not that the song is bad. Didn't think my point was so easy to misread.
"My point is that the meNing of the lyrics shifted dramatically for me."
I so love it when you explain things for us idiot students of yours.
But, please, what is "meNing"? ...I admit, I was snoozing a bit... Can i get by with a simple detention just this one time? I promise not to be a smart ass in class tomorrow.
But tonight, since I'm already in trouble, I just want to say: Loretta's the Queen! Conway's just a dude with a great name--and a great haircut too! And one song, of course, that made him a boatload of money. Yuge! So maybe he should run for prez or something. I'd vote for him. You know, just for the hairdo alone. Beats some folks' hairdos who are running right now. Hey, whatever happened to that Walker dude?
"Didn't think my point was so easy to misread."
Perhaps you should be more moderate[d].
Oh come on Ann. She wants him back. Is that evil? The heart wAnts whT it wants.
Most Conway Twitty songs are about him wanting to bang a married chick.
Ann Althouse said...
Wow. I don't know why some of you are assuming that I didn't appreciate the quality of the song. As if liking the character is liking the song! I'm saying the woman is trying to do some evil, not that the song is bad. Didn't think my point was so easy to misread.
I think that lots of people who like country music (which started out being called "hillbilly and western") are suspicious of your values. Perhaps they misread your good intentions.
How does this song differ in message from Adele's "Someone Like You" or Cher's "I Hope You Find It"? Both songs twist the knife.
hard to tell whether some commenters are willfully obtuse or merely obtuse
It's interesting how the subject matter of country music has morphed over the years:
1970: Drinking & cheating
2015: I want to find a girl, get a pickup truck, and drive around back roads.
The song speaks of a maturity that only comes years after the train wreck.
Regrets? Je ne regrette rien...
No, nothing
No, I regret nothing
Not the good things done to me
Nor the bad things, it's all just the same
It's paid for, swept away, forgotten,
I don't care about the past.
With my memories,
I have lit the fire.
My troubles, my pleasures,
I don't need them anymore.
Swept away my past loves,
With their repetitions.
Swept away for always.
I'm starting again from zero.
Because my life, my joys,
Today! It begins with you
My two favorite Conway Twitty songs.
It's Only Make Believe
Linda On My Mind
Thanks John Henry, you saved me the trouble of finding the lyrics. BTW, I always imagined him coming in out of the rain and shooting the bitch!
Evil?
I don't know. I find it just plain o' wistful.
Maybe yer right... of course, it could be that seeing it one way and not the other means something itself.
Take a couple or 5 or 6 shots and listen again. That's like it was meant to be heard.
David said.....I concluded that she was singing to his corpse. A recent corpse.
In the Conway song, that's what I always assumed. He was ending it. She could come back anytime. To the cemetery. He's had his last drunken train ride.
The ironic thing is, most people don't go to the cemetery anymore.
The best lyric is actually from "Against the Wind" by Bob Seger."...I wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then..."
"The heart wAnts whT it wants."
Unmediated by moral restraint, thus evil.
The song pretty clearly has both meanings, which gives it depth and a little thematic dissonance.
I kind of miss how country songs used to play on negative emotions and bad behavior. It's tiresome how current performers always present themselves as the good guys. Even good people have bad emotions some of the time!
Conway sang it to a woman with a ring on her finger and time on her hands.
"Conway Twitty" would be a great conservative Twitter handle.
I believe I wrote that some years ago now. I wish I could get the credit.
She flirts with evil about midway through, but it's a short flirt. She says goodbye in the last verse, with an open invitation if things don't work out with woman number 2.
We'll leave the lights on for ya. I don't see that as wrong.
I get the evil thing as unrepentant hedonistic narcissism.The song is all about the singers feeling and using him to make her feel better.Nowhere is she putting his best interests first.In that way it is an allegory for many a relationship.Country music and the ballad-of which this is one.tells stories and this is the story of the unfaithful and egoistic.And yes her voice and interpretation make it art.Which many coastal dwellers never noted.
Regarding hedonistic narcissism-why do we glorify it? Is it really good for anyone? Modern day examples are myriad incuding the entire Jenner-Kardassian clan and franchise the Real Housewives brand,The Kate plus Eight, Amy Poehler,Lena Dunham,the Octomom, and many more.Where is the concern for the devastation left in the wake of their passage?
For my money greatest C&W lyric evah; "Get your clothes out of the closet, your feet out from underneath the table and your tongue outta my mouth 'cause I'm kissin' you good-by." LOL! Next best? "I know whut I was feelin', but whut was I THINKIN'?
Conway and Loretta did some great duets back in the day, if you like that sort of thing. A personal favorite was "Louisiana Woman, Mississippi Man". Lord, that's over 40 years ago.
You either like this sort of music, or it's unlistenable. I can't say why it appealed to me, even at a young age. My family and friends wanted nothing to do with it, so I sorta listened to it on the sly, especially at night when I could get Nashville or New Orleans on the radio. Hard to explain the appeal to others.
Like religious miracles: For those who believe, no explanation is necessary. For those who do not, no explanation is possible.
One of my favorite country songs is, "You're Wife Is Cheatin' On Us Again" by Wayne Kemp. It's on youtube if you are interested.
P.S. Wayne Kemp is one of my favorite country guys, he wrote "Love Bug" (G. Jones), One Piece At A Time (J. Cash) and The Fireman (G. Straight). He also has another classic "Alcohol of Fame." Enjoy.
@chickelit Since you mention Adele and we are talking about layers of meaning, her new "Hello." Another woman ostensibly apologizing for breaking a guy's heart, but in this case, he obviously isn't the one in pain. Not as "evil" as Ann's example, but coming from the same place. It's the first song (at about 2:00) from this concert.
She wishes she was Jolene. If she was Jolene, she would already have him back.
I liked country music a lot more, OK, I don't like it at all now, but I used to, when it was written by people who lived normal lives like the people I grew up with, and was written about the pathos of situations in their normal lives. Yes, cheatin' is a normal thing too.
We'll leave the lights on for ya. I don't see that as wrong.
It's wrong because it is injecting yourself into a happy relationship and possibly planting a seed of failure. As they say on the internet MOA (Move On Already!) Imagine if the "He Stopped Loving Her Today" corpse had moved on, maybe he would still be alive! I think Adele songs sometimes reflect this kind of thing too, not even counting "I must have called you a thousand times!"
I heard that you're settled down
That you found a girl and you're married now
I heard that your dreams came true
Guess she gave you things I didn't give to you.
Old friend, why are you so shy?
Ain't like you to hold back or hide from the light.
I hate to turn up out of the blue, uninvited
But I couldn't stay away, I couldn't fight it
I had hoped you'd see my face and that you'd be reminded
That for me, it isn't over
But at least Adele seemed to get over it, I say seemed because of "Hello."
Anyway, triangles are the cornerstone of popular fiction.
As Meade put it, "She is Jolene."
Dolly has probably gotten over Jolene by now. hold it,Tennessee girl, maybe not.
Dolly used to come into my Grandaddy's store in Sevierville to buy pencils for school.
In 1995, Dolly started mailing one book per month to each child in Sevier County from the time of their birth until they entered kindergarten. The internet made it world wide, and over 10 million books have been given away now.
I had only known the Conway Twitty version, and the Loretta Lynn one does seem emotionally different (even though the singing, the arrangement, the tempo are so the same). Perhaps the male one seems so harmless, almost pathetic. If it's an attempt at emotional manipulation, it's not going to work. But the female ... She might just get him to do what she wants and screw up his life. (So agreeing with Donald Gooch above.)
On a less serious note, this was a comment from SPCLPONY at one of the Conway Twitty versions on YouTube:
Has anyone heard the joke about the new preacher that came to a small town? The new preacher looked just like Conway Twitty. As he went from door to door introducing himself, everyone would be in shock and say "Oh my, it's Conway Twitty!" He would say "No ma'am, I'm the new preacher and I'd like to invite you to my sermon on Sunday morning...." This went on door after door for most of the morning. Finally, he knocked on a door where a beautiful woman answered wrapped in her bath towel. Her towel fell to the floor when she threw her arms up and exclaimed "Oh my, it's Conway Twitty!" After an eyeful, the new preacher regained his composure and sang out "....Hello Darlin'!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Og1QRtcWdEY
@Roger, I hadn't heard that one before! It's great!
If you listen to the lyrics, it seems that he is regretful over the breakup of the relationship. My view is that he sees her in the distance and is having this monologue in his head ("look up" implies she is not looking at him and may be off in the distance at another table.) Regret was a common theme in country music at the time as well as "get away from my man", drinking, and a host of interpersonal relationship issues, most of which were not healthy.
In this case it was wishing that he (or she) had not made a mistake by cheating (probably) and wishing for an impossible reconciliation. Very rarely are there direct dialogues unless the song was written specifically for a duet. On the other hand there were often serial songs by Tammy and George telling the world about their problems.
@ Roger Sweeny
Heard the same joke with a Nat Cole look-alike and "Ramblin' Roads".
Nice thread.
Among my favorite lyrics (and a song title, too) is "It Was Always So Easy to Find an Unhappy Woman ... 'Till I Started Looking For Mine".
As Wilbur says, "Like religious miracles: For those who believe, no explanation is necessary. For those who do not, no explanation is possible."
Loretta Lynn nee Webb
My 2nd cousin 3 times removed ... Webbs coal mining in Van Lear, Clicks in Arkansas Creek area of Martin, Ky, operating a sawmill (and a few stills)
Hello Darleen.
I followed hoyden's Caitlyn Jenner link to StarMagazine.com. Where I found a story about a woman regretting a decision she had made.
Also, an ad; Simple Method Will Make Any Woman Obsess Over You.
I think most people get over a "broken heart" fairly quickly. Too many fish in the sea, to lose sleep over one that got away. But you do see people who can't seem to move on, and sometimes it does seem like there is an element of perversity to it. Like, my toy is broken, I want your toy broken too. Ninety-Six Tears?
I suspect, Althouse, that when you hear Conway sing it, you take the attitude of a woman listening to an old flame saying he's still burning. Nothing wrong with that. But when you hear Loretta, you hear a rival after your man. Evil bitch!
Try Travis Tritt's response to a similar appeal;
You say you were wrong, to ever leave me alone
Now you're sorry, you're lonesome and scared
And you say you'd be happy, if you could just come back home
Well here's a quarter, call someone who cares
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