The tradition of perpetual Eucharistic adoration — uninterrupted praying before what is believed to be the body of Christ — dates to 1226 in France, according to Sister Marlene Weisenbeck.... In La Crosse, the nuns estimate they’ve prayed for hundreds of thousands of people, including 150,000 in the last decade. “Sometimes it’s overwhelming with the pain that people have and the illnesses that they are suffering,” said Donna Benden, who is among 180 lay people known as “prayer partners” who help the 100 sisters. Benden prays from 7 a.m. to 8 a.m. every Wednesday before going to work.
११ नोव्हेंबर, २०१५
"The Wisconsin nuns who have been praying nonstop since 1878."
"The La Crosse-based Franciscan Sisters of Perpetual Adoration claim to have been praying night and day for the ill and the suffering longer than anyone in the United States — since 11 a.m. on Aug. 1, 1878...."
याची सदस्यत्व घ्या:
टिप्पणी पोस्ट करा (Atom)
पोस्ट्स
५३ टिप्पण्या:
At least it keeps them off the streets.
We do this at our church, but only for about 10 years. (I am not one of the volunteers.) It's difficult to keep it sustained, at least amongst lay people.
From their lips to God's ear.
(We hope......)
My search for the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence continues.....
So ?
They "claim" to have done this? That's what the Post says. How about going to La Crosse and saying that to their faces.
Is their church Our Lady of Perpetual Motion?
@madashell,
My search for the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence continues.
Oh, if we're lucky, Dr. Weevil will weigh in here with his encounter with a Sister of Perpetual Indulgence from his days in San Francisco. It's a hoot!
C'mon, Weevil -- regale us!
Is it working? Have they won any lotteries?
We instituted perpetual adoration at our parish almost ten years ago. I am committed to an hour a week. It's hard to put into words the profound effect this has had on our parish and in my life. The efficacy of prayer is a great mystery to me. I have been a skeptic. But slowly, imperceptibly, prayers are answered and I see how God works in my life. Sometimes prayer is just about changing my heart, not God's. These sisters inspire me...what a beautiful witness of faith and perseverance in prayer.
Spend six months praying to Bozo the Clown, and I guarantee your prayers will be answered with the same degree of frequency as any of the various sky gods that populate ancient literature.
@Farmer,
I hate to break it to you at this late date, but theism is basically the default setting in the history of western philosophy.
But, of course, all those guys were just mesmerized by "sky gods". Unlike you, who has got it all figured out.
It's always fun when the middle school atheists show up.
@YoungHegelian:
"I hate to break it to you at this late date, but theism is basically the default setting in the history of western philosophy."
So?
"But, of course, all those guys were just mesmerized by "sky gods". Unlike you, who has got it all figured out."
No; I don't have anything figured out. And that has no bearing on whether or not your religious claims are true or not. But I do always appreciate being lectured on arrogance by people who believe they are the point of creation.
I Have Misplaced My Pants:
"It's always fun when the middle school atheists show up."
Ah, the old dagger of being unsophisticated. Because asserting unprovable, unfalsifiable claims is the height of intellectual refinement.
Who's lecturing you JF?
Here is a story of a bunch of women who simply pray for others (or even if you don't believe in prayer, then they are simply thinking nice thoughts for others), and you apparently have some problem with that and have to barge in to crap all over it.
Caroline Walker -
Thanks for relating your experience. It is inspiring.
@Mark:
"Who's lecturing you JF?"
That comment was directed at a specific commenter, who wrote: "Unlike you, who has got it all figured out."
"you apparently have some problem with that and have to barge in to crap all over it."
I said nothing about the specific people and did not even read the linked story. I made a general comment about what I think about prayer. "Barge in" does not even make sense in this context. Could I not turn this around on you and say that you barged in on my back and forth with another commenter? I suppose I could, but that would be foolish. Ann makes a lot of posts, and I do not comment on half of them. I choose to comment when I am in the mood and feel like I have a perspective to offer (which is the case). I said what I think; two commenters took me to task for it, and I responded to them. What's the problem?
@Farmer,
And that has no bearing on whether or not your religious claims are true or not.
But it has a lot of bearing on your claims, Farmer. You're not making a claim to deism. Your not making a claim that their Catholicism is wrong, but another faith, e.g. Buddhism is right. You're making a claim that atheism best describes the state of the universe.
But, somehow, most of western philosophy has not seen it that way. Some philosophers have, for sure, but not most. There are many & good reasons for that state of affairs.
So, if there is a supreme being, it would make sense that as the most intelligent being he is able to communicate with his creation, doesn't it? If he can communicate with us, then why is it a stretch to imagine that he, every now & then, just might listen to us? That's called prayer.
"J. Farmer said...
Spend six months praying to Bozo the Clown, and I guarantee your prayers will be answered with the same degree of frequency as any of the various sky gods that populate ancient literature."
You are probably right. However, if you pray to the God who created the universe, respectfully, then you will get different results. Take the challenge. Wear a Miraculous Medal for 6 months, and pray the Memorare daily, and Mary, the Mother of God, will help you change your heart from stone to human flesh.
The Catholic Church is scrupulous about documenting miracles. People on the verge of death one day are, less than 24-hours later, dismissed from medical care because the doctors can't find anything wrong with them. Miracles happen frequently and unexpectedly.
Atheism is relatively new to humans, existing less than a couple of centuries. All ancient cultures had people believing in a God or many gods, but they believed in something greater than themselves.
"No; I don't have anything figured out. And that has no bearing on whether or not your religious claims are true or not. But I do always appreciate being lectured on arrogance by people who believe they are the point of creation."
Seems to me most of the voices here supporting prayer are speaking to you in gentle voices with humility. Yours is the only voice which seems arrogant.
Actually, I'm not seeing any lectures on arrogance. I'm seeing people who worry about the eternal salvation of your immortal soul, and would encourage you think further on this matter. One of the proofs of God is that there must be a First Thing. Where do you think all of this came from?
@YoungHegelian:
"You're making a claim that atheism best describes the state of the universe."
No, I am not. You can be a deist or a theist and still believe that god does not answer prayers.
"But, somehow, most of western philosophy has not seen it that way."
Again. So what? Nearly 70% of the world is non-Christian. Do you consider that fact an effective rebuke of Christianity?
"So, if there is a supreme being, it would make sense that as the most intelligent being he is able to communicate with his creation, doesn't it?"
Being able and actually doing are two very different things.
There could be a god that is completely indifferent to human beings. There could be a god who is actively malevolent and tries to harm people.
If you want to posit that there is some supernatural creative force in the universe, then fine. Like I said, it's an unprovable, unfalsifiable belief. But people who claim to know such a creature's desires and intentions has set quite a high burden of proof for himself or herself in my estimation.
@Milwaukee:
"Wear a Miraculous Medal for 6 months, and pray the Memorare daily, and Mary, the Mother of God, will help you change your heart from stone to human flesh."
Do the evangelical Christians who consider Catholics to be heretics and idolators have hearts of stone as well or do they just read the scriptures differently than you and come away with vastly different conclusions?
"Miracles happen frequently and unexpectedly.
People of all religious faiths believe in the occurrences of miracles and supernatural intercessions in human affairs. I have close friends in India and Southeast Asia who pray and make pilgrimages to special shrines all the time. Does this have any affect on how you evaluate the truth claims of Hinduism and Buddhism. They think when you die, you will be reborn into another physical body on earth. I don't believe that; do you?
"Seems to me most of the voices here supporting prayer are speaking to you in gentle voices with humility. Yours is the only voice which seems arrogant."
Again, I was not making a blanket statement against a group of people. That is precisely why I put "@" followed by the person's screen name when I direct a comment directly towards them. I was responding directly to a single individual who wrote: "Unlike you, who has got it all figured out." Now, I don't know about you, but I don't think that commenter actually believed I have it all figured out. I think he was being sarcastic.
J.Farmer: "But I do always appreciate being lectured on arrogance by people who believe they are the point of creation."
Actually, if you were paying attention, maybe you weren't, you would realize that in the Christian belief system you too are "the point of creation" (an odd phrasing that).
YH: "But, somehow, most of western philosophy has not seen it that way."
Actually, most of every philosophy has not seen it that way. Whether eastern, western, northern, southern, etc. Throughout history.
Just sayin'.
70% is non-Christian, but most of it still prays, in some form or another. There are other religions, and most humans do have some sort of religion, still.
Even the parts that are atheist have their rituals and ceremonies of virtue, often concealed as some set of unexamined assumptions about the nature of public good or private compassion.
Good for them. Nuns are a dying breed and are admirable women of faith.
They held the church together and educated its youth while the men in charge were making a complete mess of things.
JF: I'm a mathematician who loves to delve into the fine points of logic, axiomatic method, and the construction of knowledge. Take my word for it, your life (as well as your head) is full of all kinds of unfalsifiable and unprovable things.
J. Farmer @10:21: "Spend six months praying to Bozo the Clown, and I guarantee your prayers will be answered with the same degree of frequency as any of the various sky gods that populate ancient literature."
J. Farmer @10:51: "No; I don't have anything figured out."
Is rapid self-refutation something you strive for or is it inadvertent?
@Mark Nielsen:
"Take my word for it, your life (as well as your head) is full of all kinds of unfalsifiable and unprovable things."
Happily concede that.
@Drago:
"Is rapid self-refutation something you strive for or is it inadvertent?"
No, those are two statements in two very different contexts. The latter was in response to another commenter who wrote: "Unlike you, who has got it all figured out." To say that I do not believe in prayer is not the same thing as saying I have it all figured out. Hindus pray, and Christians pray. That is completely irrelevant to the respective claims made by either religion.
Do they ever run out of stuff to say?
A personal reflection:
I was raised in a devoutly Catholic home, went to Catholic schools and was an altar boy for 8 years. I learned the Mass in Latin, or at least the responses, in 3rd or 4th grade.
All of the changes wrought by Vatican II so greatly changed the liturgy and other precepts that my inculcated faith was inevitably challenged. It became clear to me at around age 12 that this whole religious edifice was built on a house of cards, and when you pull out one of the many cards (for a small example, no eating meat on Friday) the whole structure crumbles to dust.
If you believe reciting the Memorare is worthwhile for yourself and others, then knock yourself out. We recited it every day in grade school. I still remember most of it.
I do not criticize anyone's Christian faith nor the practice of it; for someone to prosyletize against it is usually offensive to me. I suspect if I did truly believe, I would become a priest. How better to enhance my chances of eternal life at the foot of God himself?
I envy those with religious faith; it is a great source of comfort to them. But if you're in for a penny, you're in for a pound - it's all or nothing.
Good for them. Nuns are a dying breed and are admirable women of faith.
Depends on the community. A lot of more traditional communities, both old and new, are attracting young women.
To the skeptics out there: I challenge you to read some C.S. Lewis and G.K Chesterton. There is such a thing as thinking man's Christianity, believe it or not...
J. Farmer said...
Spend six months praying to Bozo the Clown, and I guarantee your prayers will be answered with the same degree of frequency as any of the various sky gods that populate ancient literature.
Who said that god resides in the sky?
"Who said that god resides in the sky?"
Well, Jesus did ASCEND into heaven.
IMO the problem is that the working of miracles from group prayers is not consistent. Some get a miracle and some do not. You can see that as a basic equal protection violation, or you can be thankful for the miracles that happen, and that many do happen is a fact.
Something about doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result . . . .
Sounds like a perfect situation to do a double-blind test and measure the actual power of prayer.
Medical costs for Wisconsin residents should be much lower than the rest of the country. Reminds me of the time Oral Roberts was fund raising for his new hospital. I kept thinking, "Why would you even need a hospital?"
Wilbur said...
"Who said that god resides in the sky?"
Well, Jesus did ASCEND into heaven.
Well. That's what the King James interpreters wrote anyway.
"infinite" means everywhere.
Farmer--I could have phrased that better, but being deliberately dismissive and insulting ("sky gods", etc) is what makes you sound childish. Mocking that which you don't fully understand is one of the hallmarks of immaturity. My 14 year old, who currently rejects the faith she was raised in, is much more respectful and nuanced in her positions than you come across. The funny thing about certain atheists (of which I was one for many years) is that they use the same arguments as though people of faith haven't heard them 10,000 times and then look at one smugly like they think they've made some super incisive point. HINDUS PRAY TOO! SO NOW WHAT! BUUUUURN! SPAGHETTI MONSTER! DERP! Like a middle schooler.
I'll be glad to start praying to Bozo the Clown. All he has to do is get himself crucified, and rise again on the third day.
"Well, Jesus did ASCEND into heaven."
It's in the Apostles Creed, too, as I recall. Very Catholic, not King James.
I've been masturbating every day since 1978. You're welcome.
"The La Crosse-based Franciscan Sisters of Perpetual Adoration claim to have been praying night and day for the ill and the suffering longer than anyone in the United States....
That's the kind of boastful, arrogant pride that really pisses God off. Those sisters better have a tall lightning rod.
Wilbur said...
"Well, Jesus did ASCEND into heaven."
It's in the Apostles Creed, too, as I recall. Very Catholic, not King James.
Ah.
Thanks.
@I Have Misplaced My Pants:
"Farmer--I could have phrased that better, but being deliberately dismissive and insulting ("sky gods", etc) is what makes you sound childish.
I reject your notion that religious beliefs are things that ipso facto must be treated with reverence and respect. A lot of people are very passionate and committed to political ideologies, too, but I'm perfectly fine being dismissive about ideologies I disagree with. The fact that something is very important to somebody does not mean that other people have to take it seriously.
"Mocking that which you don't fully understand is one of the hallmarks of immaturity."
How do you know what I fully understand or not? Is it not conceivable to you that people can be aware of the claims a religion makes and simply reject them? You have no clue about mine or my family's religious background.
Again, I am under no obligation to take Christianity seriously. The fact that it is important to you and provides you some level of psychological comfort is great--for you. I happen to think that the multitude of religious beliefs suggests that they are made up by human beings. If Christianity is true, then there are billions of people in the world deeply committed to completely false religious beliefs. You can call that a middle schooler point all you want.
Just out of curiosity, what do you consider the sophisticated arguments against religion?
@DanTheMan:
"I'll be glad to start praying to Bozo the Clown. All he has to do is get himself crucified, and rise again on the third day."
Firs, being crucified and ascending into heaven is not a guarantee that a being will listen to, let alone respond to, prayers. Second, do you agree with me then that the billions of people praying to non-Christian deities are wasting their time?
lgv: Sounds like a perfect situation to do a double-blind test and measure the actual power of prayer.
How would you propose this be done?
Be sure you read the linked article and think about what these nuns (and many other people, all over the world) are doing before you answer.
>>Second, do you agree with me then that the billions of people praying to non-Christian deities are wasting their time?
No. I believe in a God that hears all the prayers of His children, regardless of the form.
@DantTheMan:
"No. I believe in a God that hears all the prayers of His children, regardless of the form."
Then why did you make crucifixion and resurrection a prerequisite for prayer answering? Do you consider yourself a Christian or not? As I understand Christian doctrine, Jesus explicitly states that "no one comes to the Father except through me." Is the entire point of Christianity not that Jesus is the means by which salvation is reached? If this view is optional, then there does't seem much point to having it.
@rusty, @Wilbur,
The great creeds (and the first chapter of Acts) say that Jesus arose from the Earth and traveled upwards.
However, as Augustine (and Aquinas) reasoned, if God has parts that can be distinguished, and a location "in the sky" as a home, then He is a part of the Cosmos. If He is a part of the Cosmos, then He cannot be its Creator.
Of course, they were working from the assumption that God is First Cause of all motion, matter, and order in the Cosmos. (Or the equivalent assumption that all motion/matter/order has a Cause; and with the deductions that an infinitely-long chain of causes-and-effects can exist, but none of them cause any subsidiary effect unless one of them is acted on by a Cause which can trigger change without being triggered by a previous/external cause.)
It's not an unexamined or hidden assumption.
But it is unfalsiable.
But as @MarkNielsen remarked, it is hard to avoid using unfalsiable or unprovable statements.
@SJ:
I agree with what you have written here.
"But as @MarkNielsen remarked, it is hard to avoid using unfalsiable or unprovable statements."
You're right, of course, as I conceded myself to the original commenter. But I think it misses the point. If people were simply asserting a supernatural 'cause' to the universe, then that would be one thing. But religious people do not just say that a god exists. They say that god exists and they claim some knowledge about specific times in recent human history that god has actually interceded in the physical world and that this intercession included a purposeful attempt to convey a universal message to human salvation.
SJ
I was getting there.LOL.
They say that god exists and they claim some knowledge about specific times in recent human history that god has actually interceded in the physical world and that this intercession included a purposeful attempt to convey a universal message to human salvation.
Hence. Faith.
>> Then why did you make crucifixion and resurrection a prerequisite for prayer answering?
I was making a joke. About a clown. You did catch that, yes?
टिप्पणी पोस्ट करा