"If businesses act responsibly, there is no reason why what sounds intrusive in the abstract can’t revolutionize the way people live for the better by offering services that anticipates their needs; by designing ultraefficient infrastructure that makes commuting a (relative) dream; or with a revolutionary approach to how energy is generated and used by businesses and the populace at large."
The last paragraph of "'Smart Cities' Will Know Everything About You" in the WSJ.
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If businesses act responsibly,
It isn't business we need to worry about, it is government.
Besides, what he is describing is Marxian(?), not Orwellian. Orwell warned about government control, it was Marx that warned about business (capitalists) controlling our lives.
Yes, it will used as an excuse for corporate & state control. Why? Because governments & corporations get addicted to revenue streams & fight like hell to maintain them. An example: speeding cameras. They were added on "dangerous roads" to "increase public safety". But, after a while, drivers learn where they are and slow down & revenues drop. The government's answer --- not "Well, our job here is done", but "Hey, we need to put more cameras out there to make up for our budget shortfall".
There is a limit to corporate greed. Once the numbers are made for the quarter, everyone kicks back. But, government, there's always something more to be done with the taxpayers' money.
"A smart city doesn't have to be as Orwellian as it sounds."
It doesn't have to be. But it will be.
The eventual rise of Smart Cities might be concurrent with the development of Arcologies, massive megastructures where millions of people live and work.
"If businesses act responsibly ...
I stopped right there.
Cities are smart to reduce regulation and taxes so that free enterprise flourishes.
We've already given up a lot of information to our computers, and I haven't found it that bad. In fact, as the technology has improved, I've enjoyed getting ads for the types of products that actually interest me. To echo other commenters, this is why I'm not that worried about business having the info. They have to convince me that they will make my life better if I am going to open my wallet. The government has a gun to my head. They can make me do things that THEY think will make THEIR lives better.
With that said, there are things like self-driving vehicles that I am willing to give up a fair amount of privacy to get.
"If businesses act responsibly ...
That is, of course, code for "we will force businesses to act as we want". Human nature being what it is, government has to intervene to enforce the behavior desired by the elites. Otherwise there might be willy-nilly freedom. Can't have that, wouldn't be prudent.
@Nonapod:
Only if Elon succeeds.
You are all just jealous because you don't live in a smart city....stupid country people.
The progression from smart to totalitarian is not inevitable, but all human experience has demonstrated its likelihood.
Steely Dan has a song about this..
On that train all graphite and glitter
Undersea by rail
Ninety minutes from New York to Paris
(More leisure time for artists everywhere)
A just machine to make big decisions
Programmed by fellows with compassion and vision
We'll be clean when their work is done
We'll be eternally free yes and eternally young
What a beautiful world this will be
What a glorious time to be free
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k1m9TevgJM
As long as it's private people or companies doing the surveillance and tracking, conservatives don't know how to object. Of course, they'll also insist that it be trivially easy for the government to buy, steal, or seize the data. (Because muslims.)
Conservative fixation on the thin line between public and private makes them worthless as opponents of tyranny. They're ideologically committed to being tools of the powerful.
Conservative fixation on the thin line between public and private makes them worthless as opponents of tyranny. They're ideologically committed to being tools of the powerful.
You can say that with a straight face after the last seven years? Give the man an Oscar!
Help me out here...how many Wall St. prosecutions have there been under Obama? How many of those capitalist crooks has he thrown in jail compared to ....say...Bush?
As long as it's private people or companies doing the surveillance and tracking, conservatives don't know how to object. Of course, they'll also insist that it be trivially easy for the government to buy, steal, or seize the data. (Because muslims.)
Droll, but bullshit. No one here who is conservative is for ANYONE doing surveillance and tracking. Sorry to crack your caricature.
Conservative fixation on the thin line between public and private makes them worthless as opponents of tyranny. They're ideologically committed to being tools of the powerful.
Sounds like someone missed the last Occupy rally...
A smart city doesn't let you piss in the street without consequence.
Original Mike said...
"A smart city doesn't have to be as Orwellian as it sounds."
It doesn't have to be. But it will be.
Exactly what I was thinking: Look at who runs cities, for them Orwell is not a warning but a guide.
Business A responds to the needs and desires of its customers and honors its contracts with vendors, landlords and employees. Business B strictly adheres to all government regulation. Which business is acting more responsibly in creating value for its community?
Titus said...
You are all just jealous because you don't live in a smart city....stupid country people.
7/13/15, 3:42 PM
Stupid country people are the ones who grow the food you eat. You need them more than they need you, you arrogant fool.
If they said the info we gather lets us know what "groups" of people want, we'd just think, That's marketing. But they say, This info lets us know what a particular person does, or wants, or buys, etc. That's creepy.
Whenever I buy something on the internet, such as from Amazon (of course through the Althouse portal!), every web page I go to has ads for the very thing I just bought, or the things that I looked at and decided not to buy. It's a little creepy, but it's so incompetent that it's more funny than scary. I know that's what Winston Smith said in early days, but I'm cool about it right now, you know?
Titus said...
You are all just jealous because you don't live in a smart city....stupid country people.
7/13/15, 3:42 PM
cubanbob said.....
Stupid country people are the ones who grow the food you eat. You need them more than they need you, you arrogant fool.
7/13/15, 5:11 PM
@Titus. When the supermarket shelves are bare, knock on my door. We will feed you.
"the development of Arcologies"
Is that like Ark II?
It isn't business we need to worry about, it is government.
This.
Let there be trade in personal information between individuals and privately owned enterprises. It already happens at your supermarket, with your credit card, at your library, etc and online.
But governments, though they do it at first with the best of intentions, will get carried along by bureaucractic momentum and will turn it into a disaster.
More from the WSJ: "...aid urban planning and improve the well-being of the populace..."
Uh oh.
If they can, they will.
...but how is our metadata even possible to protect?
...is it even ours?
"If businesses act responsibly...."
They won't. They don't. Those who fear businesses more than government refuse to see that businesses, once they grow sufficiently large in size and wealth, are more powerful than governments, bend governments to their will, and corrupt and pervert all they touch.
Once, or once idea, or not.
The bit I loved most in that article was this:
Individuals who are shown to lead very unhealthy lifestyles
[which might mean anything from compulsive skydiving to barebacking, but I digress]
could be deliberately targeted by brands selling
... Diets? Weight-loss programs? Herbal remedies? Nah, of course not:
... fatty foods.
Ewwwww, fat.
OPM. John Doe. Swattings. IRS/FBI collusion. Kelo.
*mike drop*
They won't. They don't. Those who fear businesses more than government refuse to see that businesses, once they grow sufficiently large in size and wealth, are more powerful than governments, bend governments to their will, and corrupt and pervert all they touch.
Good Christ not even the North Koreans or the Chinese believe in Communism anymore.
Pop Quiz: When did China finally start to feed all of its people and raise their standard of living?
A: When they started pretending to be Communist and got the fuck out of the way of private business.
Didn't the Twentieth Century teach you anything? Or are you one of those "Communism hasn't failed because Communism hasn't really been tried" types?
Blogger cubanbob said...
Titus said...
You are all just jealous because you don't live in a smart city....stupid country people.
7/13/15, 3:42 PM
Stupid country people are the ones who grow the food you eat. You need them more than they need you, you arrogant fool.
And provide all the energy and materials fir the city. In return the get accountant and lawyers.
Those who fear businesses more than government refuse to see that businesses, once they grow sufficiently large in size and wealth, are more powerful than governments, bend governments to their will, and corrupt and pervert all they touch.
Spoken like a true Marxist. In reality, it's the other way around. When businesses grow sufficiently large in size and wealth, governments co-opt them and bend them toward government's will. Which is how the government corrupts and perverts everything it touches.
You're delusional if you can't see that.
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a ballet slipper tapping on a human face — forever."
"But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother."
And how could he not? What what the "ultraefficient infrastructure," the "revolutionary approach to how energy is generated and used," and the rest.
A smart city synchronizes its stoplights and doesn't subsidize its professional sports franchises.
The. End.
Those who fear businesses more than government refuse to see that businesses, once they grow sufficiently large in size and wealth, are more powerful than governments
No. Governments are more powerful.
Governments wage wars, make laws, arrest people, collect taxes, prohibit, enforce, and legislate.
Businesses can't do any of that, unless (like everyone else) they are able to gain some control of government.
If the "power" of business is entirely contingent on the extent to which they can control government, what does that tell you about the relative power of the two? Take your time.
Weak or strong, businesses (aka private capital) will always seek to control government. If the government is weak, businesses will control it, and then try to make it stronger. All that is important is where the greatest marginal profit can be made for the least cost.
Government will always seek to control businesses to implement its policies and to use as a source of revenue.
The worst of all possible worlds would be if, say, the head of the wealthiest companies worked to elect politicians. You know, like Eric Schmidt tried to elect Obama. Not just with money, but with personal advice and expertise.
Makes me bones shiver to think of that.
I trust Blizzard with my information more than the government. I mean, they've both probably been hacked, but only the government lost data that couldn't immediately be fixed with a call to my bank.
Businesses are not more powerful than governments. You want to know how you can tell which has more power? Look at who gives who tribute for favors.
"Of course, they'll also insist that it be trivially easy for the government to buy, steal, or seize the data."
-- It is trivially easy. Look at what happened to conservative non-profits. The IRS seized their data and handed it out to government organizations and private organizations that were unfriendly to the non-profits in a coordinated attack. Look at how quickly Joe the Plumber's information was leaked to the media, or how the information exonerating Ted Stevens was successfully hidden. The government is immensely powerful, and people who tell you otherwise are wrong.
Not Orwellian. Huxleyan.
That's why we left the city.
I once played a computer game designed along those lines. Talk about scary! And frustrating.
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