Althouse: "I’ve fought a lot of women and have never felt the strength that I felt in a fight as I did that night. I can’t answer whether it’s because she was born a man or not, because I’m not a doctor."

१० जून, २०१५

"I’ve fought a lot of women and have never felt the strength that I felt in a fight as I did that night. I can’t answer whether it’s because she was born a man or not, because I’m not a doctor."

"I can only say, I’ve never felt so overpowered ever in my life, and I am an abnormally strong female in my own right."

Said Tamikka Brents, a mixed martial arts competitor, who got a concussion and a broken eye socket in a fight with the transgender Fallon Fox.

Via Jaltcoh who asks "Anyone have a problem with this?"

६७ टिप्पण्या:

David म्हणाले...: People have been watching too many bullshit action movies where women kick the asses of men. It's lucky she wasn't hurt even worse.

Perhaps the outcome will remind people that the different gender roles in procreation (and attendant varying biological equipment) are not the only differences between the sexes.

This particular difference is that men are physically stronger than women, in most cases a lot stronger. Their physical strength is not equal. No amount of wishing or legislation or physical training can change this. Thus a well trained strong female athlete is going to be overwhelmed by a well trained strong male athlete.

This is only part of the bullshit that people are choosing to believe about gender but it's so obvious that it should be undebatable.; १०/६/१५, ८:०६ PM
Humperdink म्हणाले...: ebartly said: "The people who refer to themselves as transgender are a different kettle of fish, physically gender A and claiming to identify with gender B. Whether or not transitioning is a good idea, it's simply not possible at our current technology level."

The stats say it's a terrible idea. Suicide rate is X20.; १०/६/१५, ८:०९ PM
Guildofcannonballs म्हणाले...: Killing China is something scores; and no more; of people could understand. Jesus, the Christ Child, understood well above and beyond us.

But yeah in the "first world" first worlders are comfortable enough to hold power: other considerations??

The most under reported?

Americans with skills in martial arts.

Martial dominates legalese until 'Merica.

Then, precious memories weren't there 'cause Blacks in Detroit wanted to ejaculate cause animal reference: no.

No. No. No.

Men want to protect decency or enable cuntship.

Am i cunt whore L Ron Cuntbard Hubbard or whatnot?

So be it.; १०/६/१५, ८:११ PM
Gabriel म्हणाले...: The strongest female athletes in the world are less strong than 80% of men.

The difference is that extreme.; १०/६/१५, ८:१३ PM
Michael म्हणाले...: Again, not a single woman-woman passed the Army Rangers course.

More likely they will lower the standards to fix the horrible injustice of the high standards.

To paraphrase Paglia when the strongest transgendered woman has a car breakdown there will be a man who opens the hood and looks in and a man who hauls the car to the shop and a man who will bring the parts to the man who will repair the car.; १०/६/१५, ८:२५ PM
Yancey Ward म्हणाले...: This is obviously deeply unfair to the MMA participants that have two X chromosomes. I don't really understand why the association allows Fox to continue to fight as a woman, and even more, I don't understand why the women don't blackball Fox and refuse to take the fights.

It is a pretty much delusional to think a woman can fight a man of equal training in an MMA format, and it matters little that the man is transgendered. The difference in strength and sheer power is just too much. I consider this a case of assault and battery if Fox concealed this.; १०/६/१५, ८:२६ PM
Jaq म्हणाले...: Transgendered golfer would own the LPGA. There are maybe five quality golfers on that tour. Sure the hormones would rot away some muscle, but not the frame. They can't really putt, relying heavily on their male caddies to read the lines for them. Seems like easy pickins.

I would be interested in hearing the logical flaws in the "I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body" joke. Why would this not be accepted? What are the criteria for a sexual orientation anyway?

Is it basically that certain groups need not apply regardless? Is there a list of groups that can apply and groups that can't?

We all know the answer to that one.; १०/६/१५, ८:२९ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: Poor Ray. Why did he punch his wife in that elevator? If he would just call himself a woman, charge money, and do it in front of a crowd, its all good.

In triathlons, the top men finish about an hour before the top women. Usually you'll get about ten men in before the first woman comes in. Imagine if enough men change their identity to female. Will born women ever be able to compete?

The ironic thing here is that Democrats and liberals pretend its the conservative and Republicans who wage the war on women. But the more liberals and democrats that get their way, the more marginalized women are.; १०/६/१५, ८:४४ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: Btw, it should be noted this dude who can't compete with male MMA fighters got his butt kicked by a woman.
http://nypost.com/2013/10/13/transgender-female-mma-fighter-loses-by-knockout/; १०/६/१५, ८:४९ PM
Guildofcannonballs म्हणाले...: Whose deck existed un.

Trick question.; १०/६/१५, ९:०० PM
Guildofcannonballs म्हणाले...: The praise ought be only per Madonna material.

Only cunt chumps feel and derive other.; १०/६/१५, ९:०२ PM
Guildofcannonballs म्हणाले...: Only Cunt Chumps think: aOther.; १०/६/१५, ९:०३ PM
Unknown म्हणाले...: Truly sick.; १०/६/१५, ९:०६ PM
chickelit म्हणाले...: W Foster UnBuckley hits a high C-note; १०/६/१५, ९:०९ PM
Humperdink म्हणाले...: Classy stuff Buckley. Mom would be proud!; १०/६/१५, ९:११ PM
Lewis Wetzel म्हणाले...: "I can only say, I’ve never felt so overpowered ever in my life, and I am an abnormally strong female in my own right."
Tune in and see a man beat up a woman!
At adulthood, pound for pound, men have about 30% more muscle mass than women and greater bone density. And know, this is not "socially determined."
This is just sick.; १०/६/१५, ९:११ PM
Guildofcannonballs म्हणाले...: I am kingpimp.

You slovenly slow fucks matter more than your contemplation.

Because Jesus.

Not only: we want happy but encourage the other toward feeling: bad more likely than goo nor especially God) no mTter ( per time) what not other than but time"); १०/६/१५, ९:१४ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: Fox is not only transgendered but also a lesbian. A total meshugganah.; १०/६/१५, ९:२३ PM
clint म्हणाले...: At least Brents went into the fight knowing her opponent was a former man.

Fox fought her first five professional MMA fights without disclosing her transsexual status.

That's a huge ethical breach.

Fox should have a lifetime ban from the sport for that alone.; १०/६/१५, ९:२६ PM
Static Ping म्हणाले...: MMA fan here.

Rhonda Rousey, the UFC woman's bantamweight champion who has been recently destroying everyone in her division to the point that some people suggest she could beat men, will not fight Fox. (For the record, Rhonda has no interest in fighting men, one of her explanations being no one wants to see a man punching a woman in the face.) UFC President Dana White and UFC TV personality Joe Rogan both say Fox should not be allowed to fight women. So, yes, people in the industry do have a problem with this.

The whole point of having different men's and women's divisions in sports is because women are at a disadvantage physically. It's not some sexist plot. Men are, on average, bigger, stronger, faster, etc. If there were not separate women's sports, there would be very, very few women in sports at the college level and a low participation rate in high school. Elite women have challenged semi-elite men in various sports and generally things go very badly for the women, the only exceptions I can think of being bowling, a sport that is more about technique than anything, and car racing, which while physically grueling to an extent is not exactly weightlifting.

If all that is required to compete in the other sex's sport is to identify yourself as such, the logical result should be the end of women's athletics. Men and women compete together. It will be mostly men. What do you think of that, Title IX?

Yes, it's idiocy, but it is where this leads. People are so self-righteous that they are not thinking things through.; १०/६/१५, ९:२७ PM
Jane the Actuary म्हणाले...: It ought to be pretty straightforward: if you are trans, or intersex, then you just don't get to participate in competitions against genetic women.

It mystifies me that this isn't the case.

Eventually there'll be a report out of a high school in a state or district that allows MTF transgenders to play on girls' teams, of a "girl" who's trouncing the competition in some sort of individual competition. But it'll probably be cast as an inspirational story, not an unfair advantage.

Oh, and did Ann blog about the reddit thread in which readers advised a confused man to get over his hangup about a "girlfriend" with a penis, and to treat the "girlfriend" no differently than someone with a birth defect.; १०/६/१५, ९:२९ PM
etbass म्हणाले...: I hope we see more and more of this. I want the American public to become sick of this transgender foolishness. They need to see how the entire sicko tranny crap will ruin competitive events and will keep on ruining so much of American life.; १०/६/१५, ९:३० PM
Jason म्हणाले...: As you can see here...

http://prommanow.com/2014/09/19/ronda-rousey-says-fallon-fox-has-unfair-advantage-fox-responds/

Fallon Fox is not only a cheater, but a cunt about it.; १०/६/१५, ९:३१ PM
Jane the Actuary म्हणाले...: Trying to find out whether there have been actual cases of high school kids.

Here's one: Pat Cordova-Goff. http://www.sgvtribune.com/sports/20140213/transgender-student-to-play-on-azusa-high-school-softball-team

At least one gender expert believes Cordova-Goff’s physique likely won’t have a noticeable impact on the field of play.

“There has been no change in women’s sports or athletic outcomes or anything at all,” said Helen Carroll, the director of the National Center for Lesbian Right’s Sports Project. “Transgender girls who are playing are playing just as other girls and women. We’re not seeing that there is a competitive advantage when a 6-foot-3 transgender student plays against other 6-foot-3 girls playing on the team.

**********

Which denies the fact that "transgender girls" have the muscle mass, height and size, on average, of a boy.; १०/६/१५, ९:३८ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: @Humperdink 6/10/15, 8:09 PM

ebartly said: "The people who refer to themselves as transgender are a different kettle of fish, physically gender A and claiming to identify with gender B. Whether or not transitioning is a good idea, it's simply not possible at our current technology level."

Humperdink said: "The stats say it's a terrible idea. Suicide rate is X20."

The stats say that what transgender people and their advocates call transitioning is a terrible idea. I suspect that *really* transitioning would also be a bad idea, but there's no way the evidence can address that, because actually transitioning from male to female or vice versa just isn't going to happen in the foreseeable future.; १०/६/१५, ९:३९ PM
chickelit म्हणाले...: Which denies the fact that "transgender girls" have the muscle mass, height and size, on average, of a boy.

Denial of fact is the first premise of transexuality.; १०/६/१५, ९:४० PM
Beldar म्हणाले...: Problem?

Consenting adults were fully informed. They acted foolishly, as is their right as consenting adults.

I'm not just talking about the participants. I'm talking about the people who pay to watch.

Would I pay to see it? Encourage my children to do so, or engage in such nonsense? No.; १०/६/१५, ९:४२ PM
The Godfather म्हणाले...: Wait a minute! Do you mean that Caitlyn Jenner isn't a woman?

For shame!; १०/६/१५, ९:४२ PM
Jason म्हणाले...: Watch the fight. It's ugly. I can't believe the referee didn't stop it earlier. It's brutal.

And then this Fox cretin went on Twitter to harass and humiliate Tamikka. The tweets are here: https://storify.com/wwomenwwarriors/fallon-fox-harassing-tamikka-after-knocking-her-un

This thing is a fucking psychopath. Maybe we can put it in a room with War Machine. Those two cretins deserve each other.; १०/६/१५, ९:४४ PM
madAsHell म्हणाले...: Whoa....off narrative!!! Men and women are not equal??? Who knew??; १०/६/१५, ९:४४ PM
Beldar म्हणाले...: On the subject of extremely tasteless things I'd rather not support: There's a commenter here who's so over the top that I'm now disinclined to read Prof. Althouse's comments section. But she's entitled to enforce -- or refuse to enforce -- whatever comment standards suit her. And I can close my browser window, which I believe I shall.; १०/६/१५, ९:४५ PM
Jason म्हणाले...: Fox had several fights against women before bothering to disclose to MMA that it was transgender.; १०/६/१५, ९:४६ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: @Jason 6/10/15, 9:46 PM

All of the fights Fox engaged in before acknowledging being MTF were assault. They gave consent to engage in fisticuffs with another woman, not with a MTF. Ignoring all social differences, the physical differences are significant enough that the misapprehension invalidates their consent.; १०/६/१५, ९:५० PM
Sebastian म्हणाले...: Transgenderism is a revenge fantasy of men attacking feminism.

It's the subtle dialectic of turning Prog assumptions against themselves.

Not so subtle in this particular instance, but still.

Seems to be working, at least until Progs get themselves out of the knot into which they have tied themselves.; १०/६/१५, ९:५८ PM
Ann Althouse म्हणाले...: @Beldar We strip all those comments out systematically. Just skip them. They'll be gone.; १०/६/१५, १०:०२ PM
Joe म्हणाले...: Biology wins again. Who'd of thought.; १०/६/१५, १०:०९ PM
Agathonika म्हणाले...: Jane, look into the story of Gabrielle Ludwig:

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2012/12/18/6-foot-8-transgender-player-takes-court-against-delta-college/

6'8 230 lb Desert Storm vet who played men's basketball in college. In his 50s, decides to "transition" and go back to community college to play on the women's team with a bunch of 18-20 year old young ladies. Or, as Ludwig called his teammates in a USA Today interview "a bunch of dysfunctional lesbians." Nice.

The photos are grotesque. Imagine being a young woman on a basketball team and walking out onto the court to see a hulking middle aged Navy vet man staring at you from the opposing team. It's unbelievable that this is allowed.; १०/६/१५, १०:१३ PM
Lewis Wetzel म्हणाले...: “There has been no change in women’s sports or athletic outcomes or anything at all,” said Helen Carroll, the director of the National Center for Lesbian Right’s Sports Project. “Transgender girls who are playing are playing just as other girls and women. We’re not seeing that there is a competitive advantage when a 6-foot-3 transgender student plays against other 6-foot-3 girls playing on the team."
Note the assertion-as-fact. I would love to these statements backed by a non-partisan expert. They won't be.; १०/६/१५, १०:१४ PM
David Begley म्हणाले...: For the life of me I can't understand how there is even a market to watch two women fighting for money.

Mad Max's Thunderdome is next.

"Two men enter. One man leaves."; १०/६/१५, १०:२१ PM
JAORE म्हणाले...: Mad Max's Thunderdome is next.

"Two men enter. One man leaves."

Or, in this case:

Two women enter. One FTM leaves.; १०/६/१५, १०:३८ PM
John henry म्हणाले...: to Jaltcoh:

Yes, I have a problem with this.

You have a woman fighting a man. If you want to call the opponent a woman, OK, but it is still a man's body.

It makes a mockery of the whole idea of women's sports.

Did she know here opponent was a transsexual?

Would a woman have the option of declining to fight (or play any other physical sport) a transexual because they are transexual?

This whole megillah gets wierder by the day. I don't think there is any commenter more liberal than me. I am absolutely pro-choice. His/her body, his/her choice.

But that isn't enough to some folks. Thos folks will not be satisfied until I love all LBGTWXYZ folks and proclaim loudly and publicly that they are "normal".

Fuck them.

John Henry; १०/६/१५, १०:४३ PM
William म्हणाले...: Perhaps transgendered deserve a league of their own. And their own MMA division.......I don't follow MMA, but I think the fights will continue to be allowed so long as people pay to see hem. I know nothing of the promoters of these fights, but my suspicion is that they do not belong to the most enlightened segment of humanity.; १०/६/१५, १०:४९ PM
Babaluigi म्हणाले...: What was that the other day about being an "authentic woman"?...I chose not to enter into that discussion because one comment-er was obviously personally "invested" and I did not want to be involved in that sort of direct conversation...

However...no amount of surgery, hormone therapy, deep thoughts, wishes or dreams can actually transform a man into a woman- or visa versa. There are some good imitations out there, and I cannot fault anyone for seeking authentic happiness...

But either you are, or you aint...and situations like this illustrate the folly of thinking otherwise...

...On the other hand, Fox would have come in handy on some of our Women's Olympic Teams against the Soviet Bloc countries in the days of yore...; १०/६/१५, ११:०८ PM
Freeman Hunt म्हणाले...: I searched for an hour for studies supporting the idea that trans women have no competitive advantage in sports. I found many articles asserting that. I found many studies supporting the idea of trans women in women's sports. But I found no actual findings supporting that assertion and many to the contrary. My search is limited though because I'm using the Google studies search, not a university system. If someone has links to studies showing evidence of post hormone therapy trans women having no competitive advantage in athletics, I would be interested in reading them.; १०/६/१५, ११:२६ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: Tamikka Brents was actually the only woman to win against Fallon earlier by TKO.; १०/६/१५, ११:४४ PM
chickelit म्हणाले...: Ann Althouse said...
@Beldar We strip all those comments out systematically. Just skip them. They'll be gone.

I don't think Beldar meant who Althouse thinks he meant.

Humor and satire is a better method. Ask Jon Gabriel.; ११/६/१५, १२:१३ AM
HoodlumDoodlum म्हणाले...: I'm guessing Tamikka has a problem with it.; ११/६/१५, १२:३३ AM
Fen म्हणाले...: men have about 30% more muscle mass than women and greater bone density

And 10% more hemoglobin, which means they are more efficient at supplying oxygen.

This effect snowballs if the fight goes beyond the 1st round. She will tire sooner, he will not.; ११/६/१५, १२:५७ AM
Fen म्हणाले...: "TKO at 2:17 of the first round of their match."; ११/६/१५, १२:५८ AM
hoyden म्हणाले...: I have a problem with it. I cannot imagine competing with women in professional sports.

I was never interested in competing in general, never understood the interest to compete, but I could see that competition was a big deal for many people. I didn't enjoy sports and I didn't need to compete physically to succeed in things that interested me.

As others have pointed out, there are differences between male and female. The people who seek to erase those differences are doing a huge disservice to everyone. It's a variation of PC madness that is full flower.; ११/६/१५, ३:४६ AM
London Girl म्हणाले...: My husband is a keen amateur cyclist. His idea of a fun day out is to ride across the Pennines and back again, which involves some serious hill climbing. He goes with a mixed group and he says on the flat the women he cycles with are absolutely competitive with the men and in some cases better. The instant they hit a hill all the women immediately fall by the wayside. As soon as power is required men have an insuperable advantage. The best climbers are small but powerfully built men. You can easily see this looking at pro cyclists on the tour.; ११/६/१५, ४:४० AM
lonetown म्हणाले...: Are we all supposed to pretend that chromosomes don't control the hormones that condition every cell in our body?

ever hear of testosterone rage?

What if she had died?; ११/६/१५, ५:४० AM
Brando म्हणाले...: Ultimately they'll make more sports intergender. If a female basketball player can make it into the NBA, why not let her play? Same goes for baseball.

I do get the concern about mixing gender in major contact sports, but it makes no sense to separate genders for track and field events. What's the harm in letting the fastest female runners compete with the fastest male runners?; ११/६/१५, ६:२४ AM
अनामित म्हणाले...: Static Ping: Yes, it's idiocy, but it is where this leads. People are so self-righteous that they are not thinking things through.

"We didn't think things through" will be the epitaph of the West.

(For the record, Rhonda has no interest in fighting men, one of her explanations being no one wants to see a man punching a woman in the face.)

Well, someone probably does, but why can't they just search the porn channels for what they want, like everybody else?; ११/६/१५, ७:४८ AM
sparrow म्हणाले...: Brando,
With only rare exceptions the fastest women can't compete with the fastest men. Are people so irrational that they can not acknowledge the obvious physical distinctions between the sexes.; ११/६/१५, ७:४९ AM
अनामित म्हणाले...: I am looking forward to a day when the transgendered dominate 'women's' sports.; ११/६/१५, ७:४९ AM
Jessica म्हणाले...: I exclusively formula fed both of my young children because I didn't want to breastfeed. Yes, you read that right. I was physically capable. It just filled me with dread and disgust and I didn't want to. And essentially every tale of breastfeeding I read assures me I made the right decision! My kids are happy and healthy and so is their mother. Dad got to participate way more in baby care and feeding. Mom got her sanity (and a few overnights away from baby thanks to a wonderful grandmother). The benefits of breastfeeding are overstated. So glad I didn't!; ११/६/१५, ८:११ AM
Jessica म्हणाले...: Whoops put that on the wront story! ha! Sorry!; ११/६/१५, ८:१२ AM
Laslo Spatula म्हणाले...: "I don't think Beldar meant who Althouse thinks he meant. "

I have no clue regarding this intriguing mystery.

I am Laslo.; ११/६/१५, ८:२५ AM
rhhardin म्हणाले...: As Bobby Riggs said in an interview after beating Margaret Court, "I've found my field. Women's tennis."

approximate quote from memory.; ११/६/१५, ९:०८ AM
rhhardin म्हणाले...: Young women beat old men in aerobic capacity. You could have races.; ११/६/१५, ९:०९ AM
Brando म्हणाले...: "With only rare exceptions the fastest women can't compete with the fastest men. Are people so irrational that they can not acknowledge the obvious physical distinctions between the sexes."

Then so be it--women can enter men's competitions and if they lose, they lose. I don't see harm in letting them try.

That doesn't mean there shouldn't be women's only competition (just as we often have separate leagues and competitions for older people, or handicapped people, who otherwise couldn't realistically compete with the young and fit).; ११/६/१५, ९:५४ AM
exhelodrvr1 म्हणाले...: Brando,
"With only rare exceptions the fastest women can't compete with the fastest men"

What exceptions? When have the fastest women EVER competed with the fastest men?; ११/६/१५, १०:२१ AM
Gahrie म्हणाले...: If a female basketball player can make it into the NBA, why not let her play?

But that is the point, they can't.

The best players in the WNBA would be bench players at best in the NBA, and probably wouldn't even make the roster.; ११/६/१५, १०:३३ AM
Rich Rostrom म्हणाले...: Richard Raskind was a talented amateur male tennis player (contended for the U.S. Navy championship). After estrogen therapy, Renée Richards had substantially less upper-body muscle mass (according to Richards' autobiography), but was a ranked professional woman tennis player.

Transsexuality is a real condition, and I don't mock those who suffer from it. But it is a freak condition, and trying to wedge it into "normality" will just break normality.; ११/६/१५, १०:५२ AM
hoyden म्हणाले...: Rich, breaking normality is the goal of Leftists.; ११/६/१५, ११:०२ AM
exhelodrvr1 म्हणाले...: "The best players in the WNBA would be bench players at best in the NBA, and probably wouldn't even make the roster"

Not "probably"; ११/६/१५, ११:२४ AM