Wikipedia thought so. By Tuesday evening, the ubiquitous crowdsourced encyclopedia was redirecting its “Bruce Jenner” page to “Caitlyn Jenner” and using the pronoun “she.”All I want to say is that I went right to YouTube and checked "Can’t Stop the Music" and I'm just pleased to get another opportunity to use my "men in shorts" tag:
Example: “At the 1976 Summer Olympics in Montreal, Canada, she won the gold medal in the decathlon, setting a world record of 8,616 points, beating her own world record set at the Olympic Trials,” the Caitlyn Jenner Wikipedia page read at 11:24 p.m. EST on June 1. This sentence was a bit jarring: “Jenner was also the Associated Press Male Athlete of the Year in 1976.” Even the Wikipedia page for “Can’t Stop the Music,” a poorly received — and pretty darn obscure — film featuring the Village People that Jenner appeared in in 1980, lists “Caitlyn Jenner” as a star.
"I told ya I had a surprise for ya." That's Bruce Jenner's line. I like the actress's line as a statement from Traditional America: "Wait a minute. I am not taking one more step until I know where I'm going."
ADDED: People do change their names. I remember having a lot of trouble adjusting to Jim McGuinn becoming Roger McGuinn. The rest of it is about the pronouns, and this is an occasion to reflect upon how odd it is that we make sex/gender so important that it's tightly interwoven in our everyday speech. Some feminists (and others) have tried to get us to switch to gender-neutral pronouns, and we've rejected that. There are consequences. I recommend not getting too twisted up about it. We like our gendered pronouns, and some people want to change their pronoun format. Sex/gender really are unfathomably important to human beings (and other animals). Or do you think you can fathom it and say something definitive? If not, marvel at the mystery and look for something valuable to do with the short life you have. Gender is like religion — extremely meaningful to people in ways that work without necessary alignment to what is true and usually not a good topic for argument, not unless you've built a relationship of trust with your interlocutor.
पोस्ट्स
७२ टिप्पण्या:
X or Y. It's reality.
More anti-science from the left.
That would be men in short shorts.
Now the use of sex on birth certificates is under attack. Craziness triumphant.
The important thing is that political corruption isn't in the news.
"I told ya I had a surprise for ya." That's Bruce Jenner's line. I like the actress's line as a statement from Traditional America...
I can't watch the video right now. When I first read your comment about the actress's line I thought you were referring back to the Bruce Jenner line. This all gets so confusing.
Sorry, Jenner competed as a Man and went on the record books as Bruce. This isn't 1984. We don't rewrite history to control the future.
If Jenner wins a beauty contest in 2015, then call her Caitlyn.
For the record, I have no issue with females competing in the Men's events. It's men competing as females that would be an issue IMHO.
If Caitlyn tried to enter the women's events. That's a problem.
It's weird to me that people get paid money to persuade other people that topics like this are worth their time.
The actress in the clip is Valerie Perrine. I know here as the consort of the famous man in 2 1970s biopics, "W.C. Fields and Me" and "Lenny."
Everybody Draw Jenner.
Bruce Jenner won the medal in 1976. Caitlyn Jenner was 'born' in 2015.
Michael K said...
Now the use of sex on birth certificates is under attack. Craziness triumphant.
Course if you take F off the birth records, then there is no basis for any discrimination or affirmative action in any government program. Let's eliminate all those government contract programs for "Woman Owned Small Businesses". Oh Wait, you want all the advantages, but don't want the F label?
In Soviet Russia, no one can predict the past!
Easy solution--let women and men compete in the same events, then it doesn't matter whether you won as a man or a woman because you're the same person.
And if someone wants to complain that with my solution women wouldn't be able to win a lot of the events, I'll tell them to get in line behind men under 5'5" who think there should be a special basketball event for men below that height.
I'm so good at solving problems I should just travel the country and solve problems for people.
How Caitlyn Jenner won Bruce Jenner’s Olympic medals?
The headline at WaPo does not end in a question mark. Which is appropriate since it is not a question.
Curious how someone who didn't even exist when a historic event happened, can come to be by choice, go back in time and alter history... where as an existing living fetus...
I could care less about Bruce/Caitlyn.
However for those of you who would suggest that anyone should be allowed to compete in any sport, the powers that be would change every sport until msle and female outcomes are equal.
Why should Caitlyn have the power to erase Bruce, like a politburo purge.
That doesn't seem right. Whatever you want to call me.
I am not taking one more step until I know where I'm going.
Gomorrah.
Dashing toward Gomorrah
Long Jumping toward Gomorrah
Shot Putting toward Gomorrah
High Jumping toward Gomorrah
Running toward Gomorrah
Hurdling toward Gomorrah
Discus Throwing toward Gomorrah
Pole Vaulting toward Gomorrah
Javelin Throwing toward Gomorrah
Running toward Gomorrah
I think hurdling works best, but had to go with all ten since he won the decathlon, not the individual event.
"Did Bruce Jenner or Caitlyn Jenner win those Olympic gold medals and appear on those TV shows?"
Theater of the Absurd.
@ Lem
It is her identity, to do as she please.
I tend to be more liberal on transgender, in good faith belief that something is being corrected. Matching body with brain, but Bruce has children. He is their father. Now as Caitlyn, his children lost their father.
Sorry to hold that unpopular opinion, but it is a real loss and children should feel guilty for wanting their dad to be a man.
"Every day I walk around like everything is okay. When in reality my heart is broken. My father who I loved so much broke my heart. My father who I looked up to and loved so deeply left me. The father who I thought was the best man on earth, and could have not been more proud of disappeared. I thought he was someone who overcame so many travesties in his life, and so much self growth. I was so proud of him for that. There’s not a day that goes by where I don’t miss him. My father whom I knew and loved for 17 years of my life just disappeared overnight it seemed. The man I loved so much was gone. I spent so much of my life trying to impress that man and make him proud. I miss him picking me up every Tuesday and Thursday. I miss sitting outside talking to him while he worked on either his motorcycle or car. I miss long drives with him talking about life. I miss it all. My heart is completely broken by this. People probably think I’m a horrible person for not speaking to him anymore. What they don’t understand is the emotional toll this has put on me. Seeing someone who was such a constant cornerstone in your life completely change is heart breaking. I lost my father. Some may say oh no he’s still there in different form, but they’re wrong. My dad was a manly man who loved me to death. My dad was so amazing to me. Then he completely changed his whole persona and look. I tried pretending like everything was okay for a little while, but it wasn’t . Every time I saw him after he came out to me I died a little inside. I’m not a horrible person for not talking to him. I’ll never stop loving him, but I can’t be put through seeing my dad like that. My brain couldn’t even comprehend seeing him that way. Every time I saw him my heart would break into a million pieces. "
Classy Catholic College age woman
We can't ignore the feelings of children.
Just put an asterisk after everyone's name and we'll figure out the details later.
I am Laslo*.
I think the precedent is that if it's a webpage dedicated to the individual, then we update the webpage to "Caitlyn Jenner" and redirect "Bruce Jenner" searches to the new page, as that is the name now being used by the individual -- precedence for this include Cassius Clay (who became Muhammad Ali) and Chris Jackson (who became Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf) or for that matter Prince (in all his identities), as well as a number of women who take on their husband's last name after marriage, including changing yet again for those who change it back to their maiden name after divorce (Jamie-Lynn Sigler, who was rather briefly Jamie-Lynn Discala, as an example of that). It's no big deal. You then reference the older identity with the paranthetical "(as Bruce Jenner)" the way, for example, Bridgette Wilson-Sampras is now credited for appearing in "Billy Madison" (as Bridgette Wilson).
There's no reason to come up with or act like the naming convention and attribution stuff is anything new. We've been down this road before even if the scenery looks different enough that we don't immediately recognize it - it's still the same road.
I'm fortunate to have a job in which I don't have to pretend that Bruce is a woman. If he claimed to be a 6-year old black girl, would all these folk humor him in that?
My Doberman is listed as FS for female spayed. Maybe Ms Jenner would be a MS.
I think I found my lost socks. They're in the crotch of the blue jeans worn by the blond-haired guy in the pink shirt.
Valerie was also kidnapped and taken to another planet to mate with, in Schlachthof fünf.
Did you know if you take the first 's' off of slaughter house you can fool the cattle into going in without a fight?
Everybody Draw Jenner.
ummmm....which parts??
No, Caitlyn didn't win shit and no "she" doesn't exist now.
For the record, I have no issue with females competing in the Men's events. It's men competing as females that would be an issue IMHO.
UFC has gotten upset at fighters criticizing a "transgender" for trying to do MMA fights against women when the fighter is a man.
Apparently, they assume the physical advantages men have disappear when they pretend to be girls.
Curious how someone who didn't even exist when a historic event happened, can come to be by choice, go back in time and alter history... where as an existing living fetus...
Should we now wonder who sired his kids, since "Bruce" no longer exists.
And how does Caitlyn deserve "Bruce's" fortune he amassed since they are different, apparently. If Caitlyn was ALWAYS female, then "her" marriage to either wife is null and void.
...just sayin.
I believe blond haired guy is the late John Holmes.
http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com//news/canada/becoming-disabled-by-choice-not-chance-transabled-people-feel-like-impostors-in-their-fully-working-bodies
"But he had for months tried different means of cutting and crushing the limb that never quite felt like his own, training himself on first aid so he wouldn’t bleed to death, even practicing on animal parts sourced from a butcher.
“My goal was to get the job done with no hope of reconstruction or re-attachment, and I wanted some method that I could actually bring myself to do,” he told the body modification website ModBlog.
His goal was to become disabled.
People like Jason have been classified as ‘‘transabled’’ — feeling like imposters in their bodies, their arms and legs in full working order."
I think sausage pants is happy to see Bruce. The old Bruce. The new Bruce wouldn't do much for him.
If recognized as decathlon champ, "Caitlin" would be the best female athlete of all time.
But if "Caitlin" is serious, she would spurn any connection with the evil decathlon, transmogrified holdover from sexist ancient Greece. Competitive sports are a male conspiracy against women and a patriarchal imposition. Title IX was a ruse, evidence of false consciousness.
Competitive sport have a disparate impact on female self-esteem and should be abolished. If society somehow sees fit to maintain them, compensation is in order. For every hour men spend watching men compete, they should be required to watch an equivalent segment of WNBA and Women's World Cup games. Should be an effective remedy.
Thank you, Bobby, for saying what I was going to - complete with the Cassius Clay example, a case of a deeply confused man ignorantly trading in the name of a man who actually fought and was shot for the cause of the abolition of slavery for the name of a guy who owned and traded in black slaves.
"Bruce" was his slave name.
I love how gender is a social construct but s/he has to change his/her name to a feminine one. Why can't Bruce, under a social construct frame keep his name? Since there's no reason that Bruce can't be a woman's name. And he/she still has a penis!
"Thank you, Bobby, for saying what I was going to - complete with the Cassius Clay example, a case of a deeply confused man ignorantly trading in the name of a man who actually fought and was shot for the cause of the abolition of slavery for the name of a guy who owned and traded in black slaves."
That's absolutely right and I never put two and two together. Of course Clay (the boxer) was a talented athlete and showman, but politically a moron. He was also a complete asshole when it came to Joe Frazier.
I think the question of who won the medals is best asked to the former Bruce/present Caitlyn.
Renee: Sorry to hold that unpopular opinion, but it is a real loss and children should feel guilty for wanting their dad to be a man.
Am I reading this right? Children should feel guilty for wanting their father to be a man? Is that what you meant to type?
If so, you're loony tunes.
Move over Michael Sam, ESPN has a new hero. They, like the rest of the media, cannot understand how some are so filled with hate that they do not tremble with joy at this brave new creature of beauty. Mike & Mike spending 10 minutes bashing Jenner's mother because she said "I will still call him Bruce. He will always be Bruce. That is the name his father and I gave him." was quite surreal.
Argh....
Sorry
thank you Kyzernick for the correcting my typo.
If I had to spend an hour watching female sports for every hour I watched male sports, I'd never watch sports again, except perhaps the Super Bowl. Then I'd watch either women's tennis or women's golf as compensation - the former cuz they're hot and the latter cuz they're hot and I'm pretty sure I could have beaten many of them back in my college days. For reals though, I could care less about Bruce Jenner and his/her/it's antics.
Bruce Jenner won the decathlon. He then changed himself into a woman (male pronoun because he started as a male). Going forward, everything she does requires the female pronoun. Simple.
Seb says: "For every hour men spend watching men compete, they should be required to watch an equivalent segment of WNBA and Women's World Cup games. Should be an effective remedy."
I have three soccer-playing daughters, and we are going to Canada next week for a few games. Mixing in a trip to the Rockies and Banff, too, but generally it is a soccer trip. I can deal with it because I am dad, I coach one of them, and my girls want to do this. My son, however, can hardly bear the fact that he has to go to the games with us. I'll tell him he's building up credits for other sports-watching.
Why shouldn't a woman win Male Athlete of the Year? You some kinda sexist or somethin'?
Am I reading this right? Children should feel guilty for wanting their father to be a man? Is that what you meant to type?
If so, you're loony tunes.
6/2/15, 10:15 AM
If you read the rest of the post and the link, it makes more sense to assume that a "not" was omitted.
I recommend not getting too twisted up about it.
I think the proper phrase is Don't get your panties in a twist, which isn't sexist since men can wear panties too.
In my childhood it was, "Don't get your panties in a wad."
"If I had to spend an hour watching female sports for every hour I watched male sports, I'd never watch sports again, except perhaps the Super Bowl."
I wouldn't mind as long as women's beach volleyball counts.
If you look through the list of past Yale Tennis letter-winners, you still see Richard Raskind's name listed. It has not been changed to Renee Richards.
The trans pronoun is "it". The future belongs to cyborgs and perfect equality... Well, other than the beachfront estate in Hawaii and until the 100 thousand miles or 10 year health care reform debt comes due.
I'm in the "who cares" camp. Let people be.
You have to call him Bruce Jenner when referring to events up to the end of May, 2015
Especially with regard to the Olympic medals. Sex is an important factor there. Also with regard to his marriages and children.
Now maybe you can refer anachronistically to Mohammed Ali and Kareem Abdul Jabber - still you have to mention what his name was then at the time certain events happened. (Cassius Clay and Lew Alcinder respectively)
If it is looking backward maybe it is OK to use a new name, but at certain points what his name wa sthen needs to be mentioned, repeatedly.
Language reflects biology. The changes that occur to the human body at puberty are profound. They affect virtually all of the human body, and these changes do not stop at adulthood. Women who have male children are affected by sharing, for some time, a blood supply with a male fetus. A human being who does not undergo puberty is not normal. Pre-pubescence is not sustainable. Pre-pubesent human bodies produce and use more growth hormones than adults, for example.
The desire to make people unisex in language reflects a belief that their is a genderless human norm that is superior to our gendered reality. There is no such thing.
Bruce Jenner won the decathlon. He then changed himself into a woman (male pronoun because he started as a male). Going forward, everything she does requires the female pronoun. Simple.
I would think that's obvious, but apparently not.
Bruce Jenner won the decathlon. He then decided to pretend he is a woman (male pronoun because he is a male). Going forward, everything he does can be referred to using the female or male pronoun, depending on whether or not you wish to encourage mental illness.
I would think that's obvious, but apparently not.
" He then decided to pretend he is a woman "
She's got woman parts now. She's a woman.
After watching that clip with the short-short jean shorts, the fancy schmancy half-shirt, and hangin' with the Village People, we should have seen the commin'.
Original Mike: "He then decided to pretend he is a woman"
She's got woman parts now. She's a woman.
He hasn't had any gender reassignment surgery yet. He's still got all the same parts he was born with.
“At the 1976 Summer Olympics in Montreal, Canada, she won the gold medal in the decathlon, setting a world record of 8,616 points, beating her own world record set at the Olympic Trials,” the Caitlyn Jenner Wikipedia page read at 11:24 p.m. EST on June 1.
And that will stand as the women's decathlon record forever. Wonder how actual female athletes feel about that.
"He hasn't had any gender reassignment surgery yet. He's still got all the same parts he was born with."
Oh. Wow. That makes this issue even more stupid.
I've no interest in following Bruce Jenner's private parts. But with this new information; Bruce Jenner is a man. He can't become a woman just because he says so. He has the surgery, then she's a woman. Until then Bruce Jenner, is a man.
Tsunami of bullshit...
Different pronouns for the two sexes is not a universal trait. I know someone who has lived here for 25 years but still mixes up masculine and feminine in speaking and writing English because there's no distinction in Chinese. I guess it's hard when you continue to use your native language on a daily basis even after moving.
Really disappointed in Wikipedia here. Ah well, someone will come along to clean up that PC BS.
Readering wrote:
"Different pronouns for the two sexes is not a universal trait. I know someone who has lived here for 25 years but still mixes up masculine and feminine in speaking and writing English because there's no distinction in Chinese."
And yet there are a billion Chinese.
Clearly sex is dependent on biology and not a feature of language. You are just as clearly guilty of hate speech, Mr. Readering, and hate speech is not protected under the first amendment. A curse will therefore be laid upon you and your offspring until the the seventh generation has passed from this Earth.
This is a bit like Walter/Wendy Carlos, except that he/she could have done everything he/she did musically as either a man or a woman, but Bruce/Caitlyn couldn't have won the Olympic decathlon as a woman. He did it with a man's body, with our without performance enhancing drugs (who knows?). But a woman couldn't have done what he did even with the drugs. Even with drugs that could turn a Miss America into a Ms. Olympia, a woman wouldn't have the body structure, with wide shoulders, and the big hands and feet of a man who grew up male, even if she were as tall or taller than Jenner's 6' 2". In fact, if there's even one objectively measured sport, or athletic event, in which the top woman, naturally gifted and/or chemically enhanced, can compete with the top men, I don't know what it is. Certainly no male-to-female trans could compete with male athletes after taking the performance-reducing hormones she needs.
Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia.
huh the author of Make a chair from a tree, John Alexander is now Jennie Alexander. Who cares? It's still a good book.
Original Mike said...
Bruce Jenner is a man. He can't become a woman just because he says so. He has the surgery, then she's a woman. Until then Bruce Jenner, is a man.
6/2/15, 4:04 PM
No. Bruce Jenner is a man. Cutting his dick off and inserting a synthetic vagina in its place, does not make him a woman. It makes him a man who cut his dick off. Sewing five people together ass-to-mouth does not create a centipede. Grafting antlers on a rabbit does not create a jackelope. Tatooing scales all over your body does not create a snake. This gender/identity-selection crusade is Orwellian progressive politics in the trenches, trying to undermine and call into doubt even the fundamental laws of nature, to destroy truth and reason so that people are as mentally and critically lost and helpless as travelers without map or compass. Bruce Jenner was born a male and he remains a male because, for all but a few of the simplest organisms, gender is immutable. When he has his penis amputated, he will become a transsexual male, not a woman.
Real women have wombs (hence "WOMan"). Superficial plastic surgery to conform to artificial gender stereotypes does not give someone a womb, and no intelligent person will believe with their eyes that this Jenner person is now a woman. People are only being polite about this charade (that ultimately accomplishes nothing) in order to allow this Jenner person to live in a delusional fantasy world that is detached from all of reality.
I feel sorry for this Jenner person, but he/she is simply not a woman, and the dangerous and risky plastic surgery he/she is promoting as a means to "fix" oneself is the part that offends me the most.
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