Dread Pirate Roberts — Ross W. Ulbricht, 31 — faced a minimum sentence of 20 years. The judge — Federal District Judge Katherine B. Forrest — gave him life.
२९ मे, २०१५
"Mr. Ulbricht’s high-tech drug bazaar was novel and full of intrigue, operating in a hidden part of the Internet known as the dark web..."
"... which allowed deals to be made anonymously and out of the reach of law enforcement. In Silk Road’s nearly three years of operation, over 1.5 million transactions were carried out on the website involving several thousand seller accounts and more than 100,000 buyer accounts, the authorities have said. Transactions were paid for using the virtual currency Bitcoin, and Mr. Ulbricht, operating under the pseudonym Dread Pirate Roberts, took in millions of dollars in commissions, prosecutors said... 'He developed a blueprint for a new way to use the Internet to undermine the law and facilitate criminal transactions,' the office of Preet Bharara, the United States attorney for the Southern District of New York, said in a sentencing memorandum this week. 'Using that blueprint,' the office said, 'others have followed in Ulbricht’s footsteps, establishing new "dark markets" in the mold of Silk Road, some selling an even broader range of illicit goods and services.'"
Dread Pirate Roberts — Ross W. Ulbricht, 31 — faced a minimum sentence of 20 years. The judge — Federal District Judge Katherine B. Forrest — gave him life.
Dread Pirate Roberts — Ross W. Ulbricht, 31 — faced a minimum sentence of 20 years. The judge — Federal District Judge Katherine B. Forrest — gave him life.
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A hidden part of the web... you don't say. Like a public official setting up and using a private server?
Ultimately not out of reach.
Life? For selling drugs? (Not to mention selling them in a safer way than they are usually sold.) That seems extreme.
The sentence was all political.
The hidden part of the tax code known as the dark foundation.
He was charged with and convicted of, among other things, overt acts in furtherance of the conspiracy that included multiple attempts to solicit murder for hire of individuals he thought were going to leak details if his organization, multiple successful hacks into private computer systems and stealing private information for commercial gain, money laundering, identity theft and more. So this is about a lot more than just drug dealing. I believe that the death of five persons were cited as part of the indictment.
Something like $184,000,000.00 was surrendered or seized from him as part of the sentence. I guess doing all this pays pretty well.
Said the defendant at sentencing "“I was taught to be humble and live a modest lifestyle,” he told the judge, holding back tears during his statement.
I think he was being overly modest. Anyway, good riddance.
Wait. Was he also using Silk Road to enable murder-for-hire schemes or something? A sex abuse ring?
Life in prison for connecting drug users to drug sellers is just outrageous, so I kind of hope there's more to this than the media is letting on.
$213.9m in sales generated. That equates to a lot of drug violence along the way. Plus a number of parents of underaged users who died as a result of using drugs purchased through his web site testified, and I am sure they made an impression on the judge.
Besides drugs, he was hiring hitmen to kill people he didn't like.
From the bit of reading I've done, sounds like the murder for hire charges weren't part of the prosecution in question. If that's so, then I don't think those allegations should have had any bearing whatsoever on his sentencing, but ianal.
he belongs in prison. Glad he's going there.
Wired reported about two months ago that a Secret Service special agent (Shaun Bridges) and a DEA special agent (Carl Force) have been arrested and charged with wire fraud and money laundering stemming from the milions of dollars in bitcoins that they stole from Silk Road. Force, in particular, apparently also tried to blackmail Ulbricht and offered his services as a mole-for-hire.
Meanwhile, Silk Road 2.0 has come and gone and Silk Road 3.0 is now online. And there's dozens of other darknet markets out there, thriving, doing millions of dollars in business, every single day.
Via the Wall Street Journal: "The government also accused Mr. Ulbricht of paying hundreds of thousands of dollars for the murders of at least five people who threatened his criminal enterprise. Although there is no evidence the murders were actually carried out, Judge Forrest said she took them into consideration for the sentencing."
http://www.wsj.com/articles/silk-road-founder-ross-ulbricht-sentenced-to-life-in-prison-1432929957 (behind the WSJ paywall)
It appears from the verbiage, the hit man charges were not proven.
at least one of the contract killings was given to an undercover cop who had Ulbricht's confidence. They faked the murder and send doctored pics of the "dead" victim. Ulbricht thought he was having people killed even if the scheme failed.
The murder for hire allegations were bizarre and reeked of entrapment.
The transcript of the first murder for hire scheme can be found on Wired:
http://www.wired.com/2015/02/read-transcript-silk-roads-boss-ordering-5-assassinations/
Redandwhite dangles a large amount of drug business if his organization likes dealing with Silk Road, suggests that he has expertise in sending out hit squads, mentions another murder, and discourages the idea of just scaring or beating up the first victim. In the second deal, he advocates scaling up from one thief to deal with the thief and three roommates -- and offers a volume discount! Plus, there was no actual murder.
The transcript sounds like somebody is either running a scam on Ulbricht to get paid for a murder they don't plan to commit, or else someone who is trying very hard to get Ulbricht to agree to criminal activity.
Another Wired link:
http://www.wired.com/2015/04/silk-road-boss-first-murder-attempt-mentors-idea/
Oh, and the guy Ulbricht makes the deal with is an undercover cop, who fakes the murder.
Note that Ulbricht was not charged, even though the government had evidence of *six* murder for hire plots (and zero murders). So at some point, the government decided that having chat transcripts of six murder deals wasn't going to be enough to secure a conviction. I wonder why that was?
The judge takes an unprotected and unproven set of murder for hire allegations into account in sentencing? That's not a good development.
Katherine Forrest's hat is already in the ring for U.S. Supreme Court. Check her bio and her career so far. It just leaps out. Tough on crime, tough on government surveillance, many friends in high places, etc.
The problem with most schemes is what to do with all the money. It's the money that screws everything up. I can easily hide about a million per year, but you get to a million per week, and you're going to need partners.
The partners thing always brings you down.
So the thing is, not to get too successful, if that's possible.
Imagine the nerve of the man: competing with the elites.
Judge Forrest told Mr. Ulbricht that “what you did in connection with Silk Road was terribly destructive to our social fabric.”
So the damaged social fabric was displayed as evidence - ?
Coupe said...
The partners thing always brings you down.
A friend's nephew got caught in this and the gov't extorted him to rat on the others.
I never really understood bitcoin until this. Criminals *need* something like bitcoin, their demand for it drives its value. I used to think it was something like that "name a star after somebody" thing, selling deeds to starts, sharing ownership of them, whatever. Clearly bitcoin is something real and a threat to control freaks in governments everywhere.
I've mixed emotions on this.
He should clearly be imprisoned for drug dealing. But I can't help but think the Government (almost?) went overboard in trying to heap on charges related to threats and hit-men that may or may not have truly involved him.
It seems like Prosecutors throw every single charge they can possibly think of up against the wall, hoping something will stick. Not a great way to pursue justice IMO.
And I can't help but think of the Glam shot of the Boston Marathon terrorist when I see the incarcerated that Althouse included.
@ Zach et al -
He was charged with conspiracy, and with committing overt acts in furtherance of the conspiracy, showing he meant for those things to occur even if he wasn't able to complete them. Among those overt acts: asking people to commit murder, in return for which act he would pay something of value. He was convicted of the conspiracy counts. The only reason the murders were not committed as he wished is because the government intervened. The government didn't go to the defendant and seek to commit the murders; rather, the defendant actively sought someone to commit murder, and the government provided a sham actor in response to the defendant's solicitation. The defendant had available a perfectly viable response of government entrapment, which either his counsel didn't bother with, or wasn't successful with. Because it didn't happen that way.
Why people here want to defend this creep is beyond me.
@ Fernandwhatever -
"A friend's nephew got caught in this and the gov't extorted him to rat on the others."
That's the way it works. You commit criminal acts and get caught. You can do your time, or you can be a disloyal rat and screw over your buddies to lighten your own load. Your choice.
Either way, the government comes out OK, because the trash goes to jail.
@ MadisonMan -
"...may or may not have truly involved him"
A jury of his peers heard all the evidence and convicted him. Why would you think they made the wrong decision?
@ David -
"The judge takes an unprotected and unproven set of murder for hire allegations into account in sentencing? "
Where are you getting this? He was convicted and the specifics as cited proven to the exclusion of a reasonable doubt, as decided by a jury of his peers.
Wonder if the Boy Scouts of America will pull his Eagle Scout badge.
JCC, he was NOT convicted of anything relating to murder for hire. Five of the six dubious murder-for-hire charges were dropped, the one that remains was not part of this trial, and probably won't go to trial.
This has made for fascinating reading, but it's very sad. He really has been sentenced to life without parole for enabling the sale of drugs which later contributed to the deaths of six people who willingly consumed said drugs.
I followed these Silk Road stories early on and kind of understood how the financial aspects of the anonymous aspects of transactions worked, but . . . don't you still have to tell this unknown seller that she/he needs to ship the LSD to your home at XXXX Olive Street in Eugene Oregon? Isn't having illegal drugs mailed to your home address kind of risky? Couldn't the FBI set it self up as Silk Road a seller and then arrest you when you picked up the LSD from your mailbox?
Judge Forrest echoed that message. “What you did was unprecedented,” she told Mr. Ulbricht, “and in breaking that ground as the first person,” he had to pay the consequences.
So it was a pour encourager les autres kind of thing.
According to this, he was convicted of:
1. distributing or aiding and abetting the distribution of narcotics,
2. distributing narcotics or aiding and abetting distribution over the Internet
3. conspiracy to violate narcotics laws
4. conspiracy to run a "continuing criminal enterprise," which involves supervising at least five other people in an organization.
5. conspiracy charges for computer hacking,
6. distributing false identification, and
7. money laundering.
Why people here want to defend this creep is beyond me.
If being a creep was a punishable by life imprisonment, the Internet would wither away in no time.
Sad that another fellow PSU alum makes it .... er..... big. Albeit an MS degree.
Where's the Gay Mafia?
I believe this guy was sentenced under the Continuing Criminal Enterprise statute. The CCE has sentencing guidelines more harsh than RICO in some cases. It's known as "The Kingpin" Statute. This tough statute has been used against biker, black, and Hispanic gang leaders.
I believe this is the first upper middle class, white, gay, person sentenced under this statute. I hope he's proud for being a pioneer. LOL!
@ acm -
Ulbricht wasn't charged with murder for hire. The murders for hire were incorporated into the drug conspiracy and the "continuing criminal enterprise" as "overt acts in furtherance of", standard language used in typical Federal drug cases. He was convicted of both those counts. The judge in pre-trial motions specifically allowed evidence of all 6 allegations of murder-for-hire to be heard at trial.
http://www.leagle.com/decision/In%20FDCO%2020150108C70/U.S.%20v.%20ULBRICHT
@ Paco -
"If being a creep was a punishable by life imprisonment, the Internet would wither away in no time."
Ha
Within the listed charges, the moron was charged with "overt acts in furtherance of...", like the paying-people-to-kill-other-people-to-protect-his-business stuff. Think of it as your basic, umbrella "Essentially a sociopath preying on the rest of us" kind of a thing, with a required list of particulars which had to be individually& collectively proven.
"Within the listed charges, the moron was charged with "overt acts in furtherance of...", like the paying-people-to-kill-other-people-to-protect-his-business stuff."
Yes, that is much clearer from the link you posted. Thanks.
From that link:
For the reasons set forth below, the Court finds that the murder-for-hire evidence is relevant to the charged offenses, and would in any event be separately admissible under Rule 404(b) to prove Ulbricht's identity as DPR. Finally, Rule 403 does not require preclusion. [...]
Accordingly, defendants' motions to preclude the murder-for-hire evidence and to strike references to the murder-for-hire solicitations from the Superseding Indictment are DENIED. The Government's corresponding motion regarding the murder-for-hire evidence is GRANTED.
The only reason the murders were not committed as he wished is because the government intervened. The government didn't go to the defendant and seek to commit the murders; rather, the defendant actively sought someone to commit murder, and the government provided a sham actor in response to the defendant's solicitation. The defendant had available a perfectly viable response of government entrapment, which either his counsel didn't bother with, or wasn't successful with. Because it didn't happen that way.
Why people here want to defend this creep is beyond me.
I disagree with this reading of the record.
Reading the transcripts, the original suggestion of a murder plot is not made by Ulbricht. It's made by redandwhite, who puts a lot of pressure on Ulbricht to agree:
1) He claims to represent a large supplier, who will give Silk Road a lot of business if they approve of Ulbricht's business methods.
2) He claims that his organization routinely murders people in this situation, and offers their capabilities to Ulbricht.
3) He vetoes an idea Ulbricht comes up with, which is to have the thief apprehended and beaten up.
4) He quotes a price and offers to set up the deal, with a man who is an undercover cop.
As I read the transcript, Ulbricht is being cajoled into agreeing to use redandwhite's preferred methods (ie murder) by the promise of large amounts of new business by someone who is either a cop or in league with the cops. He does not originate the idea, and in fact comes up with another idea which the cops' agent vetoes.
I'm not defending Ulbricht, who is clearly guilty of setting up the Silk Road and could easily be convicted of a murder for hire scheme in the absence of entrapment issues. But consider this -- Ulbricht is so clearly guilty that his best legal defense is probably to raise issues with his prosecution and try to get portions of his sentence thrown out on appeal.
If that's his legal strategy, then the worst thing you could possibly do is to give him a legitimate basis for appeal.
Paco Wove wrote:
If being a creep was a punishable by life imprisonment, the Internet would wither away in no time.
Did these other creeps you compare him to also setup Silk Road, or websites like that which facilitated the sale of illegal drugs? So, then, it's not so much that they are creeps so much as creeps engaged in criminal activity.
And jail is the place for such creeps.
I'd certainly object if the sole reason anyone was jailed was because they are creeps. But this was not the case here.
Zach, there were actually a few conversations with Dread Pirate Roberts and this other guy, a few of which Dread Pirate Roberts definitely initiates and suggests that some people should be killed.
Zach, why don't you read more of the transcript:
Dread Pirate Roberts 3/27/2013 23:38: In my eyes, FriendlyChemist is a liability and I wouldn’t mind if he was executed, but then you’d be out your $700k. I don’t think he is going to come up with the money because he seems very desperate. I’m not sure how much you already know about the guy, but I have the following info and am waiting on getting his address:
Blake Krokoff
Lives in an apartment near White Rock Beachdownload
Age: 34
City: White Rock
Province: British Columbia
Wife + 3 kids
Let me know if it would be helpful to have his full address.
Redandwhite 3/28/2013 9:01: Also, we have kidnapped friendlychemists partner Xin already and are on the hunt for friendlychemist.
Dread Pirate Roberts 3/28/2013 16:59: I understand, and that is great news about Xin.
Dread Pirate Roberts 3/29/2013 22:55: Hi again R&W…Blake (FriendlyChemist) is causing me problems…I would like to put a bounty on his head if it’s not too much trouble for you…
Redandwhite 3/30/2013 00:42: We usually tend to stay away from hits as they are bad for business and bring a lot of heat…As of right now, we don’t care about him because we retrieved more from Xin than what he took from us, and he also paid for it with his life…Usually we pay our hitters a percentage of what the person owes +/- how much they can retrieve.
Dread Pirate Roberts 3/30/2013 1:55: If you can find his location, that may be enough for me to scare him off. He is trying to blackmail me. Just let me know what you need to make this worth your while.
So, he is initiating hits. He knows of people being kidnapped and then paying with their lives. And he doesn't bat an eye. Lets not pretedn like the guy is innocent.
How was Silk Road safe for buyers? Wouldn't it be easy for the FBI to pose as sellers and catch buyers upon receipt of the goods? That would scare off a lot of potential customers I would think.
Would all of this go away if drugs were legalized and the government set up it's own pharmacy and make all the money that is currently made by criminals? There will always be people who use drugs. Why not have a set up like Alcholic Beverage Commission for drugs (in NC beer and wine sold in supermarkets, hard alcohol at the ABC store)? Just like it's harder for kids to get hard alcohol there (unlike in NY where many liquor stores were happy to sell to me), it was easier to get drugs than alcohol in NC when I was a kid due to ABC. So I think all of the "what about the kids" legalization arguments don't hold up.
Can anyone explain to me why we keep throwing money at the failure of drug prohibition? Thanks.
Zach, why don't you read more of the transcript:
Dread Pirate Roberts 3/27/2013 23:38: In my eyes, FriendlyChemist is a liability and I wouldn’t mind if he was executed, but then you’d be out your $700k.
jr565 -- This quote follows one of the more extraordinary blocks in the entire transcript:
Redandwhite 3/26/2013 20:08: That is interesting. How much is it possible to sell on here if we listed every product far cheaper than everyone else? We have a majority hold over most of the movement of products in western Canada (one of the main drug ports to North America). I have researched your site and the concept seems interesting to me (as long as it is anonymous as everyone makes it out to be). We produce LSD/nBome/Ketamine/MDMA/Meth/GHB and import cocaine and heroin in massive bulk amounts. We have a lot of workers who run their own sub distribution networks for the streets, but if it is lucrative we are always looking to expand.
In my partners eyes all they will see is that because of online dealing we are out 700k so I’m not sure they will go for it.
FriendlyChemist refuses to meet up with us because of what he fears will happen.<\b><\i> People are starting to suspect that he will go to the police, which is not a problem because he would never be able to give up anyone of importance since he only has ever had contact with low level people in our group and they always take precautions so that even if someone were to turn informant, they would not be able to get any charges to stick. It’s a shame because he moved a fair amount of product.
If you can get FriendlyChemist to meet up with us, or pay us his debt then I’m sure I would be able to get people in our group to give this online side of the business a try. As it stands right now, there are people looking for him and since he has avoided our group, I’m not sure what will happen since he owes us money and is avoiding us.
I’ve looked around your site, and the prices are absolutely absurd. I’m assuming most people on here selling are 3 or 4 tiers below the actual producers or distributors?
Dread Pirate Roberts 3/27/2013 23:38: In my eyes, FriendlyChemist is a liability and I wouldn’t mind if he was executed, but then you’d be out your $700k.
So redandwhite dangles a large amount of business, but says it can't be done until the FriendlyChemist situation is settled. He implies that FriendlyChemist will be murdered (or at least fears that he will be murdered), but asks Dread Pirate Roberts to set up the meeting anyway.
Dread Pirate Roberts interprets this as a murder plot, says he is not opposed to it, but argues that the organization would be out $700K.
You are correct that Dread Pirate Roberts offers a bounty:
Dread Pirate Roberts 3/29/2013 22:55: Hi again R&W,
I hate to come to you with a problem when we are just starting to get to know one another, but Blake (FriendlyChemist) is causing me problems. Are you still looking for him or now that you’ve found Xin have you given up? I would like to put a bounty on his head if it’s not too much trouble for you. What would be an adequate amount to motivate you to find him?
Necessities like this do happen from time to time for a person in my position. I have others I can turn to, but it is always good to have options and you are close to the case right now. Hopefully this is something you are open to and can be another aspect of our business relationship.
Regards,
DPR
however, this bounty is only for finding FriendlyChemist. redandwhite introduces the idea that this will be a hit:
Redandwhite 3/30/2013 00:42: What is the problem? We usually tend to stay away from hits as they are bad for business and bring a lot of heat. Is it a problem that can be resolved or does it need to be dealt with sternly?...
Dread Pirate Roberts makes it clear that he is not proposing a hit:
Dread Pirate Roberts 3/30/2013 1:55: If you can find his location, that may be enough for me to scare him off. He is trying to blackmail me. Just let me know what you need to make this worth your while.
redandwhite vetoes this idea:
Redandwhite 3/30/2013 3:31: If I find his location, and you use it against him to scare him, there is a chance he will switch locations again. Speaking from experience, it will become a lot more difficult to find him again after that once he knows there are people capable of finding, him looking
for him.
Further, the people we use to do the recon are the hitter themselves. I don’t think they will be interested in continuing looking for him if there will be a small sum to be split between them just to find his address.
redandwhite then proposes a specific murder for hire scheme, including a great deal of specifics:
If you have your mind set on just finding his location, I can talk to them and get them to get it for you for a fee (not sure what amount as usually when we hunt someone, there is more involved after we find them). If you want to deal with him the other way, we can talk about that too, but price varies on the situation.
If you want it to look like an accident, it would cost a lot more. It wouldn’t be suspicious. He would just leave home one day and not return.
If you don’t care what it looks like, it would be cheaper than the accident. We use professionals and not street level hoodlums who always end up fucking things up. How much does he owe you and how much are you willing to pay? If there are funds retrieved, how much would we keep from what he has when we get him(if he has anything) ?
So before Ulbricht even implies he's interested, redandwhite has established that he has the capability, dangled an enticement, vetoed Ulbricht's plan, and laid out several scenarios with differing prices. This is not "intervening in Ulbricht's plan." It's redandwhite's plan, and the fact that redandwhite sets up a fake murder by an undercover cop strongly implies that redandwhite is either a cop or working at the cops' behest.
@ Catherine M -
"...why we keep throwing money at the failure of drug prohibition?"
Probably because the elected officials are sissies afraid to say in public that the 18th Amendment should have proven to any halfway sane person that prohibition only raises the price of contraband and creates a wealthy criminal class via its sale, production or importation. Further than the vast amounts of illegal cash raised will pretty much guarantee the corruption of public officials, that widespread and flagrant disregard of the law will create contempt for all laws and institutions of government, and that predictably, regimes of interdiction and illegality will fail dramatically.
I suppose that the same elected officials can be forgiven for not predicting the growth of a huge bureaucracy devoted to drug prohibition, which organization(s) would agitate and lobby vigorously against repeal of the laws that created and maintained said bureaucracies. I mean, is that how we remember Elliot Ness?
But your point is well taken. It is pretty stupid that the War on Drugs still exists.
Of course, none of this excuses or mitigates behavior like that of the tearful Mr Ubricht, who did what he did (including a willingness to kill) for tax-free profit, not for some kind of civil disobedience or something.
@ Zack -
If one member of a conspiracy commits a crime, then the other members are equally guilty, assuming they are convicted.
If some criminal act, especially conspiracy, originates with law enforcement, that's entrapment and it's a valid and specific defense. The contemplated act must have been within inclination of the defendant without the suggestion of law enforcement or no crime has occurred.
Since neither you nor I has access to the entire trial transcript, then we have to assume that either another, non-law enforcement co-conspirator originated the murder conspiracy plans and Ulbricht went along, or Ulbriicht had the plans in mind and you are not seeing the complete record. In any event, he was convicted of committing those acts, that is, attempting to hire persons to commit murder for something of value as part of the conspiracy and continuing criminal enterprise. You can't argue that. So as a matter of law and a matter of fact, he did it.
I am assuming you're reading that at some site that wants to make Ulbricht out as some kind of victim. He's not. He's a dope dealing, money laundering, computer hacking, identity-thieving, ready-to-kill-informers no-scruples kind of a guy with a cute screen name, who thumbed his nose at the government and got away with it for a time. Now his supporters want to know how the government hacked his servers to learn what they did about the scheme. Which is kind of ironic, I think.
Sorry, this guy lost all empathy from me when I read that he was putting bounties on peoples' heads, and that when a staffer told him cyanide was being sold on his site he decided after just a few minutes consideration that that was okay. Someone who tries to pay money to have people murdered can't really claim he doesn't deserve to rot in prison. And would he even have said sorry if he found out a mail employee died from unknowingly handling cyanide?
JCC,
In any event, he was convicted of committing those acts, that is, attempting to hire persons to commit murder for something of value as part of the conspiracy and continuing criminal enterprise. You can't argue that. So as a matter of law and a matter of fact, he did it.
You are mistaken- this is not a fact, and Ulbricht was not convicted of "attempting to hire persons to commit murder" (as you claimed). I don't know where you are getting this from, but Ulbricht was convicted of trafficking drugs on the Internet, five conspiracy charges, and one charge of running a continuing criminal enterprise, often called the "kingpin" allegation. The conspiracy charges relate to selling drugs, laundering money and hacking computers. The government has accused Ulbricht of paying hundreds of thousands of dollars for the murders of at least five people (and he probably did it), but those charges have not yet gone to trial and he has not been convicted of them (at least not yet)- and this case has potentially been compromised so it may never go to trial.
I'm seeing a lot of false claims morphing into "fact" when that is not the case and it is causing some degree of confusion. Admittedly, much of this is poor reporting from the journalists writing the articles. I'm just trying to prevent a repeat of the Zimmerman/Martin fiasco where what was often popularly understood to be "fact" was frequently not the case at all.
Bobby makes my point succinctly. Ulbricht was not convicted of a murder for hire scheme, despite paying large amounts of money with the goal of murdering someone. I am suggesting that the reason the government did not go for the easy conviction is because there are strong elements of entrapment, which are amply visible in the transcript.
Look, there are two stories here. One story is Ulbricht being convicted of selling drugs on the internet. This is interesting mostly because the size of the numbers involved.
The second story is the government botching the prosecution of a murder for hire scheme. This is a major screwup, and should be a scandal in its own right.
@ Zack -
If you like, read the indictment. Or, if you prefer, read the link I posted which is the judge's decision allowing evidence of the murders for hire to be admitted at the trial. Or, read again the jury verdict form. He was convicted of conspiracy and "continuing criminal enterprise", and those issues, including the murders for hire, were listed as "overt acts committed in furtherance" of both. The jury found him guilty of both. The judge then cited details of both as reasons for the term of sentence. In the words of the judge, the murders for hire proved that Ulbricht managed the enterprise and was willing to cmmit murder to protect the enterprise, as well as the fact that conversations about the murders, found on Ulbricht's computers, helped establish Ulbricht's identity as Pirate Roberts, something he contested.
Nowhere, in any version of the indictments, was Ulbricht actually charged with a separate and specific count of solicitation fo murder, and nowhere that I can find was any count dismissed. I don't know where you're getting "botched" stuff from. The government got convictions on every count filed, a 100% win, as far as I can see.
The only scandal attached to this case is the malfeasance of 2 agents, who stole bitcoin, were caught and are being tried. (or are already in prison. Don't know the disposition.) Good riddance to them too.
By the way, Ulbricht ran a separate but similar web site, the Armory, that facilitated the sale of unlawful firearms, also apparently for use by the criminals. His site also sold counterfeit designer goods, trafficked in stolen merchandise and more. It was pretty much a thieves' bazaar. The judge limited testimony about all that. Maybe she wanted to get done this year.
JCC,
From Wired:
The defense’s arguments about Ulbricht’s character and his idealistic motives were also undercut by accusations that Ulbricht had paid for the murder of six people, including a potential informant and a blackmailer. Those accusations never became formal charges in Ulbricht’s case—five out of six of the murder-for-hires appear to have been part of a lucrative scam targeting Ulbricht, with no actual victims.
The reason these charges were not dropped is because they never became formal charges- the prosecution chose to go with the much easier to prove (and less controversially acquired) charges that they ultimately got him on. Maybe they go forward with them now, maybe they decide not to bother since, you know, they got him for life as it is. I don't know, I don't work in the US Attorney's Office.
The article goes on to say:
But those murder accusations nonetheless deeply colored Ulbricht’s trial, and strongly influenced his sentence. “I find there is ample and unambiguous evidence that [Ulbricht] commissioned five murders to protect his commercial enterprise,” Forrest said, leaving out one alleged attempted murder for which Ulbricht was charged in a different case.
So, yes, the murder solicitations' accusations absolutely played a role in his sentencing and, if they were presented to the juror in any way at trial, I'd have to believe they played a role in the jurors' decisions (don't know how that happened). But that is not the same thing as your earlier assertion that "in any event, he was convicted of committing those acts, that is, attempting to hire persons to commit murder for something of value as part of the conspiracy and continuing criminal enterprise. You can't argue that. So as a matter of law and a matter of fact, he did it." It is NEITHER a matter of law nor a matter of fact that he did it, and people CAN argue that he wasn't convicted of it or that they believe he was entrapped. You are wrong to assert that it is settled, legally. I don't expect you to admit it, though.
@ Bobby -
Of course they were presented at trial. They are an element of what he was charged with. They are written in quite clear language in the indictment, they were mentioned prominently in testimony, and the judge cited the evidence (re: the murder solicitations) when sentencing him. I thinl you misunderstand how a conspiracy charge is structured.
You can't just charge "conspiracy". You have to specify what someone conspired to do, and if they actually did any "overt act" in furtherance of the conspiracy, because an affirmative defense to conspiracy is that the accused backed out, stopped, before doing any real thing besides talking about it. So, unless the jury finds overt acts in furtherance of the conspiracy, the defendant's claim that he/she did nothing but discuss with no intent to follow through remains uncontested. To convict, the jury has to find that overt acts were actually committed by two or more persons. In addition, to convict on the continuing criminal enterprise, the jury had to find that Ulbricht took steps and actions consistent with his being a principal in the organization. The jury found that Ulbricht protected his organization by seeking to have persons threatening the organization killed. AS the judge said at sentencing, and as you point out, the jury found that the defendant was guilty of the charges (which includes the overt acts) set out in the indictment. He was convicted of specific counts, which each included specific elements and actions.
The government chose not to try Ulbricht for each murder solicitation because it's easier to group them together as a conspiracy. But without the overt acts, there is no conspiracy. Do you understand? If he is convicted of conspiracy, he is likewise guilty of the included overt acts, because they are essential elements to the crime of conspiracy.
You can argue anything you like. It's a free country. But if you argue that Ulbricht wasn't convicted of crimes which included the acts of soliciting murder for hire, and that his sentence does not reflect that, you are incorrect.
But without the overt acts, there is no conspiracy. Do you understand?
As cited earlier, I understand that the conspiracy charges were "conspiracy to commit drug trafficking, money laundering and computer hacking." I believe drug trafficking, money laundering and computer hacking were the "overt acts" to which he was convicted related to conspiracy- I see no reference to the murder-solicitation scheme as being one of the conspiracy charge, I see numerous references excluding it as one of the formal charges but noting that it played a part in the sentencing. Certainly, numerous criminals in the past have been convicted of conspiracy to drug trafficking, money laundering and computer hacking.
Well, a minor issue I guess, and polite at least, so we disagree. Onward to better things.
Zach first Dread pirate roberts says:
n my eyes, FriendlyChemist is a liability and I wouldn’t mind if he was executed, but then you’d be out your $700k.
Then he follows up later how he wants to put a bounty on him.
zach wrote:
If you have your mind set on just finding his location, I can talk to them and get them to get it for you for a fee (not sure what amount as usually when we hunt someone, there is more involved after we find them). If you want to deal with him the other way, we can talk about that too, but price varies on the situation.
If you want it to look like an accident, it would cost a lot more. It wouldn’t be suspicious. He would just leave home one day and not return.
If you don’t care what it looks like, it would be cheaper than the accident. We use professionals and not street level hoodlums who always end up fucking things up. How much does he owe you and how much are you willing to pay? If there are funds retrieved, how much would we keep from what he has when we get him(if he has anything) ?
So before Ulbricht even implies he's interested, redandwhite has established that he has the capability, dangled an enticement, vetoed Ulbricht's plan, and laid out several scenarios with differing prices. This is not "intervening in Ulbricht's plan." It's redandwhite's plan, and the fact that redandwhite sets up a fake murder by an undercover cop strongly implies that redandwhite is either a cop or working at the cops' behest.
No, he already implied interest by saying he wanted a hit taken out on him, then a bounty. Readandwrite says he could pay people to find him or kill him .It's up to dread pirate. Dread pirate was the one who started the conversation by saying he wanted this guy dealt with.
After redandwhite says they could find him or do a hit and it can be clean or messy, dread pirate roberts follows up with:
"He doesn't owe me anything, but he is threatening to expose the identities of thousands
of my clients that he was able to acquire working with Xin if I don't pay him off. As you
don't take kindly to thieves, this kind of behavior is unforgivable to me. Especially here
on Silk Road, anonymity is sacrosanct.
It doesn't have to be clean, and I don't think there are any funds to be retrieved."
It doesn't have to be clean.
He then haggles on price and says:
"Don't want to be a pain here, but the price seems high. Not long ago, I had a clean hit
done for $80k. Are the prices you quoted the best you can do?
I would like this done asap as he is talking about releasing the info on Monday."
Oh really?
after they trick him into offing the first guy, he then talks about how they need to off a second guy.
"Ok, let's just hit andrew and leave it at that. Try to recover the funds, but if not, then not.
How much do you need for this?
I'm not sure what the problem could be with chat. Please upload some screenshots of
the settings you are using and the main pidgin window."
this is after assuming red and white already carried out one hit and kidnapped a guy and then killed him. Fuck this guy.
@ jr 565 -
Personally, I agree, but the courts have handled that for us. As they say, Adios MF. See you in another lifetime. And we can all move onto to something we agree on, like maybe how Lena what's-her-name is a buffoon.
By the way "after they trick him into offing the first guy, he then talks about how they need to off a second guy."
Should say :after they trick him about offing the first guy, he then talks about how they need to off a second guy."
No trickery was needed,it was a business transaction to this guy. he belongs in jail.
I’m reminded of a scene in the movie 8mm(**spoiler alert if you care about that sort of thing**) when Nicolas Cage meets and confronts the man who carried out the murder of a young woman for a snuff film only to see that the guy is just a normal everyday person. When he sees that Cage is clearly confused he said, “what did you expect, some kind of a monster?”
Regards
Crazyask Deep web Links the DarkWeb
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