"... that can do as much damage as a police baton without an officer having to administer a blow. The exact cause of the spinal injury that Freddie Gray, 25, sustained while in police custody in Baltimore before his death April 19 has not been made clear. The police have said that he was not strapped into a seatbelt, a violation of department policy. That has led some to wonder whether he was deliberately left unbuckled, reminiscent of a practice that while little known has left a brutal, costly legacy of severe injuries and multimillion-dollar settlements throughout the country."
From a NYT article titled "Freddie Gray’s Injury and the Police ‘Rough Ride.'"
My son Chris says that the descriptions of what may have happened to Freddie Gray remind him of a disturbing scene in the Quentin Tarantino movie "Death Proof" (originally part of "Grindhouse.") Here's the scene:
"Hey, Pam, remember when I said this car was death proof? Well, that wasn't a lie. This car is 100% death proof. Only to get the benefit of it, honey, you REALLY need to be sitting in my seat."
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When I was a medical student, I spent 6 months in the Mass General Emergency Ward. One night four cops brought in a burglar who was caught running away. He was complaining about his ankle so they brought him in for an X-ray. When we told them it was negative, they said "Thanks doc." Then each grabbed an arm or leg and trotted to the EW doors, which swung out and were steel clad for carts to bump them open. They used his head as a battering ram to bump open the doors and trotted out to the Paddy Wagon and threw him in. Everybody was white.
Old story.
Sure. I'm absolutely positive that the NYT is giving us the objective truth on this.
Just like they did on Mike brown, Trayvon Martin, the Rolling Stones fake rape story, and every scandal involving a Republican.
I have heard stories about the Baltimore cops & the "rough ride" since 1992, when I worked with a guy who had a Baltimore cop as a brother-in-law.
The stories never included details that made it seem as if the "rough ride" was necessarily racially motivated, but it mostly seemed to be the case that if the "perp" pissed off the arresting officers for some reason, a "rough ride" was often the result.
BTW, here's another lie from the NYT's:
"Then came Baltimore. The death of Freddie Gray, like those of Eric Garner, John Crawford III, Rekia Boyd and so many other unarmed African-Americans, at first seemed to fit the all-too-familiar template — white cops, black suspect, black corpse."
Except 3 of the 6 cops are black, including the one charged with homicide.
If you want to see a frightening take on all this read this NYT piece. It denies all association with black "culture." It is all whitey's fault. That will go over well with the elderly Jewish ladies who still read it.
So much hyperbole. A dark tradition? LOL. I can smell it as bullshit from here.
As far as I know, their was one instance some time ago, it involved stopping to pull the perp out and beat him, there was a lawsuit that cost the city a lot of money, people lost their jobs, and police stopped doing it.
Because, ya know, major lawsuit.
So sorry little boy, but after crying Trayvon! and Micheal! and Eric!... I'm not swallowing more of the same bullshit.
You have ZERO credibility with your fake but accurate "rough ride" narrative.
There are consequences for being a propaganda rag.
Braking like that (video) couldn't produce those kind of injuries; the (de)acceleration is about 1G, maybe slightly more with fancy tires.
It'd be like falling out of a chair.
NYT has pics of the officers in question here.
Fen said...
You have ZERO credibility with your fake but accurate "rough ride" narrative.
I don't believe that crazy driving could produce any serious injury unless they ran into something. Swerving and braking are pretty harmless: in a regular car seat, I bet you couldn't get anyone not wearing a seat-belt to even hit or touch the windshield, gently, by slamming on the brakes; but they might spill a drink. Try it! If they're loose in a van they might get a bit uncomfortably but not dangerously bumped around.
"Rough ride" is certainly no fabrication.
Wikipedia article on it cites past examples from other states.
And let's remember that before the ACLU and the Warren Court, there used to be something called "the third degree," which was really torture designed to force a confession. They would take the suspect down into the basement of the police station and really work him over until he confessed.
IIRC, the Supreme Court finally banned forced confessions in the case Escobedo v. Illinois.
I'm sure that I still have the T-shirt advertizing mustache rides for a nickel.
On the facts I've seen, this seems like a hard slog to a conviction beyond a reasonable doubt. Perhaps the jury can be asked if it has assembled because it heard the cries for no justice no peace.
It was said the practice of "rough ride" was ended a couple years ago.
It was said that the GPS tracking module from inside the van, showing any and every direction, speed, location, and any variation thereof is in a database, and would prove no "rough ride" occurred.
It was was, initially, by an occupant of that van that "no rough ride occurred".
At this point I feel out of place, as I feel no need to fuck any chickens-
Carry on.
I wondered why the racial composition of the cops hadn't been blared across the airwaves as it was during the Ferguson fiasco.
I wonder how this might change the trial dynamic, especially with the sole murder charge leveled against one of the black officers. And while it shouldn't matter...
The Dead Kennedy's parodied a similar thing in their 1980 song Police Truck. (Parental Advisory: Explicit Lyrics)
It's hard to peg Jello Biafra as left or right. He was an equal opportunity satirist.
Fabi said...
It sounds like you wonder why some would sacrifice a few of their own to advance their cause...
Not sure.....as it's never been done before.
chickelit said...
Ah, the DK's.
Nice work.
I was thinking more along the lines of jury composition, Browndog. As to your point, I have no disagreement. Lots of room under the bus if that's what it takes.
Fabi said...
I was thinking more along the lines of jury composition..
I hadn't thought of that-
Probably thinking skin color stops somewhere, but I guess O.J. showed us otherwise.
My bad-
There's not much velocity or terrain to be had here on the streets of Baltimore to provide a substantial rough ride, although I will note the the potholes this time of year are as bad as they get.
Megyn Kelly tonight had almost the whole hour with a Baltimore police officer being interviewed anonymously with disguised voice, so scepticism is in order.
However, two questions about the van were answered. It was an old van, and it had a metal partition down the middle. Thus the puzzle about the other prisoner not seeing Freddy Gray is answered. Also maybe why the officers were not anxious to get into the van with Freddie in those narrow quarters where he could spit on them or even bite them.
And, of course, this van is not like the van pictured by The Daily Mail, so those pictures do not answer the question about the infamous "bolt."
The van originally came with a camera and audio, but just so that the driver could see and hear what was going on back there. However, that equipment malfunctioned years ago and had been removed.
Otherwise the officer said that Freddie was a well known drug peddler and police "snitch" and that he would always put on histrionic acts when arrested, so the officers thought it was just Freddie being Freddie.
Not impartial testimony by any means, but I think it fits with what we see in that video of his arrival and entering the van.
The officer also said that the whole department is very bitter about being "hung out to dry" by the political leadership.
There was more than one passenger in the back of the paddy wagon. Was the other passenger belted? Was the other passenger injured?
The girl in the video clip had the advantage of being able to see what's coming and maybe brace herself.
Freddy had no advance warning.
Add me to the list of people who knows someone who's friends with a former Baltimore cop. Apparently the "rough ride" was a way of administering a beat down without the risk of being videotaped like the cops who beat up Rodney King.
The police are human, after all, but still they need to understand that administering street justice is not part of their duties, official or extra-official.
And once again I agree with Alan Dershowitz.
"And let's remember that before the ACLU and the Warren Court, there used to be something called "the third degree," which was really torture designed to force a confession."
That's 50 years ago. What does that have to do with the 21st Century. Lord, these old Boomers who still think its 1965!
Fake but accurate.
Just read the NYTs article, the constant use of passive voice tells me the author knows he's full of shit.
In NYC, they used to put the cuffs on too tight and/or lose the paperwork so you got stuck in the system for an extra day. That was just for people they disliked or who gave them a hard time. There were other options for people they really, really hated.......This was a generation ago. I presume that if you give the cop a hard time, he will still find ways to make your life miserable.......Some cops are assholes, but low level felons can act in ways to bring out the brute in St Francis.
Althouse, I am REALLY sorry that I looked at that clip from the Tarrantino movie. I never watch movies like that. But because you asked, in this case I did. I blame you for the bad dreams I'll probably have tonight.
OK. The driver in the Tarrantino movie intended to kill the girl. It doesn't really matter whether the events portrayed are plausible or not. There's no reason to think (so far as I know) that the driver of the police van was trying to kill Gray. If you buy the "rough ride" scenario, he was trying to hurt him, and (perhaps) the results were far worse than the driver intended. Maybe that's 2d degree murder under Maryland law; maybe it's something less. Can we please stop sensationalizing this and let the legal process take its course?
And will all those loud mouths who have called this a racial hate crime please admit that they were wrong and apologize, given that the driver is black, and two of the other five officers charged are also black (and one of them female). Or are they going to invent some new category like White Hispanic so that the black defendants become White Blacks?
There is an allegation of a rough ride. 6 cops, 3 of whom are black, have been indicted.
So, there will be a criminal case, where the cops are presumed innocent and will have a right to defend themselves.
There will also be a civil suit by Freddie Gray's family, seeking millions.
It is sad that Freddie Gray is dead. It really is.
But explain to me how the mob, rioters, looters, rock throwers, thieves, and roaming thugs fit into this equation?
Oberlin College SJW, turning Baltimore into Detriot as quickly as possible.
Althouse, I am REALLY sorry that I looked at that clip from the Tarrantino movie
I hope she knows her example is fiction.
Dershowitz is not a generational or progressive liberal. He may not be classical, but he is also not d/evolving. I wonder if he is pro-choice.
That said, due process and either conviction or acquittal. The riots are, at best, unseemly, and anarchists generally exist to build the state or regime (i.e. liberty reduction).
The reason store owners don't shoot looters and rioters anymore, is that they are fully reimbursed by the insurance companies and the cities (unless the city is bankrupt, in which case you should have left a long time ago).
Killing looters delays the insurance company payout. They would wait for any criminal charges to be filed or the DA to declare they are not going to prosecute business owners.
National Guardsmen on the other hand, love to shoot looters, and is the reason Baltimore went back to bed.
@Godfather,
Althouse, I am REALLY sorry that I looked at that clip from the Tarrantino movie
I had the misfortune one evening of channel surfing & watching the opening scenes of Death Proof. Trust me, there's much worse than that in it. I, too, can not abide that sort of grindhouse carnage in a movie, which is why I always passed on the oeuvre of Herschel Gordon Lewis.
Althouse, I am REALLY sorry that I looked at that clip from the Tarrantino movie
I didn't watch the clip. My wife and I both agreed to switch off his Django BS halfway through. To me it looked like Crack EmCee masturbation fantasy.
Police brutality is not fiction at all. What it is not is racist. It is class caste system based and asks only what side of the tracks you are from. Who do you know in political power.
The Law of Moses was unique in commanding a fair treatment at law be given to strangers and foreigners living among us. But that is not the norm folks.
So give up racial offense taking with every waking thought you have and and protect the man without a good job as you would a rich man.
Viewers of the Fox News Channel got tipped off to the fact that the preliminary tox screen from the hospital showed that Freddy Gray was high on marijuana and heroin.
We'll see; if things like this seem like nasty little incomplete tidbits of news bytes, then what about this business of supposed "rough rides"?
Let's see if "Baltimore" is enough to drive a big wedge in between Democrats, Police Unions and independent voters for 2016.
Let the Democrats side firmly with Baltimore rioters. I think I like those optics.
Officers Miller and Nero seem to have been charged simply because they allegedly arrested the guy wrongfully.
So, procedural errors are going to be judged as criminal matters?
I'd be interested in seeing the specifications of the charges, especially misconduct in office.
Let the Democrats side firmly with Baltimore rioters. I think I like those optics.
That's Hillary's read on things so far, it seems.
My best friend is a cop in Milwaukee. And, he's an asshole. What are the odds, right?
Anyway, I get to hear lots of stories. But the thing to remember is, he is a white cop, with black supervisors, in a blue city, with a police chief from Massachusetts, and a liberal mayor.
And in the current atmosphere, he isn't going to risk his job, his pension, or his freedom by taking someone on a rough ride.
Commit a crime? He shows up. You're cool? Maybe he exercises discretion on your outstanding wants/warrants. Not cool, and he writes you citations, maybe takes you in on your outstanding wants/warrants. Be a shithead about it, those municipal citations get replaced with state charges. Resist/fight, and you'll be going to the hospital. Try to kick out the back windows of his squad, and you get leg irons. Try to spit in his face, and you get a spit guard.
The pay/benefits are good, but he's dealing with antisocial shitheads day in, day out, day after day, year after year. But not a one of them is worth his job, or his pension, or his freedom.
The cops transporting Freddie Gray had no reason, initially at least, to want to harm him, any more than a garbage man wants to harm the garbage he's hauling. But the stop for leg irons tells me that Freddie Gray was causing a raucous by kicking the walls of the van. And the stop to check on his welfare tells me that the raucous didn't end once the leg irons were put on.
FWIW, more than one has gotten jail-itis, claiming all sorts of medical issues, just to spend some time at the hospital before getting booked into a cell. Which he's fine with, as the long wait in the ER gives a much needed meal break. His hourly pay rate doesn't change if he's waiting for medical.
I guess the point I was trying to make is this:
Baltimore cops are operating in a blue city, probably with black supervisors, in a city run by Democrats, in a state run by Democrats, with a jury pool full of blacks. Given the current climate, if you're a cop, you're not going to willfully cause the death of someone in your custody, and expect to get away with it.
Disgusting.
Yet, useful in a particular way:
I'm not interested in voting anymore, and nor do I feel obligated to vote. In fact, I plan not to vote, anymore. There's no point at all to my voting, and so I will not be engaging in pointless things.
I leave voting to you all, bless your hearts.
Althouse wrote: My son Chris says that the descriptions of what may have happened to Freddie Gray remind him of a disturbing scene in the Quentin Tarantino movie "Death Proof" (originally part of "Grindhouse.") Here's the scene:
@Althouse: Your son has an unfounded hyperactive imagination if he connects this dot to a Tarantino movie. You should perhaps challenge him on this point, especially if facts do not support it in the coming days. OTOH, perhaps he believes in what you taught him.
I'm really confused as to what to think here.
On the one hand, we have a black man accused of murder. As a white racist who wants all black men to die, shouldn't I want this black man to be murdered by the state even if the FBI fabricates his hair DNA?
On the other hand, the evidence doesn't stack up. He should have his due process. And I'm thinking he is innocent.
Its all so confusing!
You know what would be funny? If the KKK and skin heads start demanding the death penalty for this black officer.
How would that destroy the narrative?
In the end, who gives a flying fuck? Baltimore is a shithole like Detroit.
So stand with Freddie Gray or the police union?
Tough times for garage mahal.
I think that TradGuy has a good point. It isn't a Black/White thing (as is pretty obvious from the photos of the officers involved), but rather a class or us/them type issue. The police are a thin blue line between the middle class and the less civilized below them. And, a lot of the police were right on the other side of that line growing up. They tend to be lower middle class, and often had some trouble (but not too much) in high school. Maybe not the sharpest knives in the drawer, but I suspect for many it is more a question of being more tactile than visual or aural in their learning styles, and too active to enjoy school or many professions.
In any case, I suspect that most middle class guys know instinctively not to push cops. It is a male dominance thing. But, many of us had somewhat arbitrary experiences with them asserting their dominance when we were nearing and new to our manhood. There job, to some extent, is to impose that dominance in order to protect order and against predation by the lower classes. It is mostly males that the police impose their dominance over because males are the ones who test them, and females often tend to innately concede that dominance. And, that is partially, of course, because the females don't have the testosterone that us guys do.
Growing up in the middle class, we all had males in our families run afoul of the police. The thing though was, was that it wasn't tolerated by the older males in our families. I remember distinctly my next door neighbor being whipped by his father after getting caught driving under age. My father wasn't that physical, but for all of us, it was our fathers and older brothers we feared, much more than the cops, who were just the messengers. And, yes, I do remember one friend, about 20, ending up with broken ribs after a night or two in the Denver jail, and it wasn't the inmates giving him the beating. Still, the noticeable difference with a lot of these poor black males is that they don't have that, the fathers and older brothers to test themselves against, and who impose male order. So, they are left with the police doing the job that older family males should be doing, in domesticating and raising young males into society.
So, the cops use whatever edges they have to accomplish their jobs, and come home safe at night. This often includes bulking up, often on steroids (with the attendant risks, including "roid" rage). And, imposing a bit of fear on the part of the more recalcitrant members of society whom they routinely encounter.
The problem is that the police are necessary for an ordered society. And, when the Blue America model goes too far, as it likely has in Baltimore, control of the masses, of the lower classes, is lost where they live. Which ultimately results in those who can move out, moving out, leaving the least able to survive in our technological society behind. I was shocked a couple of days ago when I learned that the average IQ of inner city Blacks was in the mid 70s, and inner city Whites was in the mid 80s. We are talking two and three standard deviations below the mean.
Found something out - Blogger is not that good at detecting double postings (which is why I deleted my last post). I think that it used to be better.
So stand with Freddie Gray or the police union?
I am not sure myself. Maybe neither. So far, Gray seems to have had a long history with the police, which means to me that he has been pushing the line for a long time, pushing back when the police try to assert their dominance and draw the blue line between the under class and the middle class. On the flip side, we do need to set limits on what the police can do to draw that line, and, more importantly, impose those limits. The police are not all that different from those they are protecting the middle class against - they need push back too, in the form of lines that they know not to cross. And, nothing probably does that as well as trying them as criminals, which is to say, treating them like they treat most everyone else. Right now, I don't know enough to say whether this is justified or not.
That said, I do worry that this prosecutor may have leaned too heavily in favor of prosecuting the officers. Prosecuting them for political reasons, like Angela Corey did to George Zimmerman. The sad reality is that if the city and the prosecutors don't have the cops' backs, then the cops won't have theirs. And, that is when control of the lower classes is lost, as well as an ordered society.
Oh wow, it could have happened.
Tell me if you think the arrest that was made was not an arrest?
Meanwhile, blacks killing blacks in Baltimore aren't being talked about....Let's get the police!!!!!!!http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-city/bs-md-ci-shooting-20150430-story.html
Vicki Hearne said the IQ tests measure the ability to believe things quickly.
One can ALWAYS count on the Left to overplay her hand.
I'm skeptical of the "Freddy Gray tried to injure himself" theory, but that's why we have trials--sort the evidence out and see if the prosecution can meet its burden.
If some of the charged officers are black, and considering the Baltimore political establishment is black, it's pretty clear that race had nothing to do with this--class did. And while Gray was no model citizen, we should ensure that his rights weren't violated for the same reason we defend the rights of those to make speech we find offensive. There has to be a check on state power.
I'm with Althouse on this one. Putting the totally innocent Freddie Gray into a plexiglass container on the passenger side of a muscle car driven by a white misogynist lunatic and slamming him into the dashboard was beyond the pale! Wake up people!
Fen said
"Just read the NYTs article, the constant use of passive voice tells me the author knows he's full of shit."
Bingo. "Things happen." One of the many ways Liberal media hide the truth.
Democrats stoke the flames of racial animosity because they know the tactic helps bring out the vote. Obama knows this, and has been doing this since before Day 1.
The trick is to not add too much heat, but sometimes Democrats get greedy or desperate. Things happen.
The really bad fallout from this is going to be felt in the large cities across the country for years to come.
The Democrats are fouling their own nests by calling for "justice for Freddie Gray" and a judicial lynching of the Baltimore cops.
From the article: (Mosby to MSNBC's Chris Hayes (as if that doesn't already tell you something!)): "You have to change the culture of what’s happening in the police department, and you do that by holding them accountable," she said."
Hmmmm.
So, Mosby is going in with the task, wait, strike that, Mosby is going in with the "MISSION" of changing the culture in the Police Dept.
That sure sounds like an impartial and objective desire to follow the evidence and the truth wherever it may lead.
'snark off.
Fen said...
I hope she knows her example is fiction.
The idea of killing someone by slamming on the brakes is just goofy; a more believable fictional misrepresentation of non-accident injuries in a vehicle would be "Christine", where the car itself smashes a guy by forcing the front seat forward into the steering wheel.
Or if one finds auto-self-awareness implausible, perhaps a movie with cage-fighting vampire ghosts that teleport into the van, pull some advanced MMA on the occupants, then teleport back to Mars, just in time for a commercial.
It could happen.
Freddie Gray is dead, so something happened.
If that divider in the back of the van was added by the Baltimore PD (and having a divider obviously might often be good idea), the "projecting bolt" is more probable. It might just have been a freak accident.
Why haven't we seen the full autopsy report?
I have seen one mention that the report says his body was full of heroin and marijuana. True, or somebody just made that up?
From Death Proof...
"Well, I'd guesstimate it's a sex thing.
It's the only way I can figure it.
High velocity impact, twisted metal, busted glass, all four souls taken at exactly the same time...
Probably the only way that diabolical degenerate
can shoot his goo."
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/an-qAay2J4u7hbmbn/death_proof_2007_cops_suspect_stuntman_mike/
You got to pay for your thrills. You wanted to give the perp a rough ride - a few bangs and bruises - to teach him a well-deserved lesson about not running away from arresting officers. You didn't want to kill him, just teach him some manners. But sometimes things go wrong, and sometimes a head just hits a metal bolt sticking out of a van wall the wrong way, and baddaboom, it's a f*g medical emergency and a funeral, and guess what? It's your fault. You wanted to hurt him and the law says "you take your victims as you find them." Like I said, you got to pay for your thrills.
The only solution is to blame marijuana and WARN THE CHILDREN stay away from the Devil weed.
This worked out well for the Boston terrorist killers; they got to mass kill again after beheading three people on September 11th.
Yeah blame weed like Boston does, fools. We can make terror a nuisance like Boston did by blaming weed and the evil weed manipulators.
Sure sure we will see more bombs, but I don't run no damned marathons yo!
I find it interesting that with all the trillions spent by all the colleges or universitys (small U) over the decades the answers are still seemingly ephemeral. People act as if it isn't shameful to throw their hands up saying "I don't done darn know what the heck is going on up in here" when they damn well should, per Band of Brothers when the medic slaps his bloody hand on the back of the ambulance after chastising the officers.
You damn well should know.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7rgko_well-you-oughta_shortfilms
Law profs ought to know, but so few do, about the damn law and the damn frustrations and the damn humanness of it all.
You give me 2 million American dollars and I can provide blueprints for peace everywhere, with little genocide involved at least in these planning stages.
NO joke.
It is easy.
The lessons we should have all learned by now are easy.
The following-through is difficult, but without that difficulty lies other-than-humans.
So pay me now, then thank your lucky stars you chose properly. Althouse gets 4% for facilitating all transactions and giving her legal "stamp of approval" metaphorically in my cogitation.
This is a link to discussions of ought as opposed to should.
I anticipated the thoughts of you, the readers, whilst I wrote.
I didn't adjust my trains of thoughts, but instead chose to post this separate comment.
Must, should, or ought? | OxfordWords blog
blog.oxforddictionaries.com/.../must-should-oug...
OxfordDictionaries.com
Mar 3, 2014 - A woman's place is in the bosom of her family; her thoughts ought seldom to emerge from it. The Edinburgh Magazine and Literary Miscellany, ...
I have a question. I will ask that question plainly and directly, and in return I expect an answer plainly and directly.
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