Writes Elie Mystal at Above the Law.
UPDATE: Breaking news email from CNN:
Two University of Oklahoma students were expelled today for their alleged "leadership role" in a racist chant by Sigma Alpha Epsilon fraternity members, a decision that President David Boren says speaks to his school's "zero tolerance" policy for such "threatening racist behavior."
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८२ टिप्पण्या:
I don't get the outrage.
An actual racist is good to find. It may help to remember what the word meant.
Let them have their fraternity.
Thank god they finally found a case where they didn't have to make shit up, and of course this proves all the cases where they did make shit up. They were right all along and they proved it with geometric logic..
To the writer, "showing massive disrespect to a black president" does not make one racist.
Why does the left think that their leaders should be exempt from normal politics? What is this totalitarian impulse? It's a rhetorical question.
When I first saw reference to that story, I wondered how the Society of Automotive Engineers got confused for a Greek/fraternal organization.
Or how a drinking party ended up on video.
....
Back to the main point.
...
Why, in the name of all that is holy, is Elie Mystal happy to have found a racist?
NPR interview, the Frat is no more at Oklahoma. One of the brothers says it's a limited few. What I'd expect him to say, maybe right maybe wrong but there's certainly a "rush" to judgment.
Also have to say that if using the "N" word is a high bar then actual racism in action must be literally unbelievable.
Lesson: if you belong to an organization that has racist people in it, you deserve to be homeless.
And "robot" is a dog whistle.
Nigger has two registers, one negative and one positive.
Negative: probably up to no good, doing as little as he can get away with.
Positive: sticking it to The Man by living by his wits and giving The Man nothing. (Rogue sentiment)
I'm surprised that UO doesn't teach that in English lit or something.
Then people would have to be more accurate in their outrage, which is always good.
Harry Truman and Lyndon Johnson called Negroes "niggers" all their lives, and the two of them personally did more to end Jim Crow than the rest of our presidents combined - including the present one.
Swooning over some drunken fratboys making asses of themselves and beating your chest about it, just raises some questions about your own secret feelings on the subject.
Hillary used the n-word in all her missing emails.
Good to know that collective punishment is allowed. For certain people.
-XC
PS - The SAE's did not seem to have a higher d-bag ratio than other frats at the two universities I attended. But i do recall them having much better parties.
It's really all about defending certain whites for being willing, asinine participants in an old culture that brags about being better than Negro men.
Who cares. That same culture hates Jews. That same culture worships inherited wealth as the only true god. That same culture lives primarily to prove Thorstein Veblen was a genius.
Think about the chant: 'There will never be a n**** SAE.' You think they just came up with that?"
I once had someone observe the greek letters on my sweatshirt and declare, "Hail, hail, Sigma Nu. No n*****s, No Jews".
He was a university professor.
The SAE's did not seem to have a higher d-bag ratio than other frats at the two universities I attended.
They definately had a reputation at mine. Not a racist one, but a worst frat on campus kind of reputation of the tacky, drunken, don't drink the punch variety.
There will never be a n**** SAE.
SAE national should make a deal with the university. SAE gets to keep a chapter there, all existing members are kicked out of the chapter, and for the next 5 years SAE can only pledge black students there.
What planet is Elie Mystal from? It is nothing like the one I live on.
"What does a person have to do these days to prove that he is racist? It's not enough to show massive disrespect to the black President. Congress and the Supreme Court get away with that every State of the Union, and they can't be called racist. It's not enough to shoot unarmed black people, the cops do that all the time, and they can't be called racist."
There will never be a white guy in Omega Psi Phi. But then, who cares?
I guess if they don't sing about it it's OK.
Racism comes from both sides. There is a double standard. It shouldn't be tolerated on either side.
Obviously, the frat crossed the line, but Elie Mystal does herself no favors by starting her piece with such obliviousness.
dbp said... [hush][hide comment]
What planet is Elie Mystal from? It is nothing like the one I live on.
3/10/15, 8:50 AM
I was thinking the same thing. A hispanic man defends himself against a brutal beatdown, racist. A white cop shots a black man that is brutally attacking him, going so far as to reach into the patrol car to get at him, racist. Oppose the President jamming through congress (with the help of congress) a takeover of 1/5 of the economy and EVERYONE's healthcare, racist. Pointing out "if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor" was ALWAYS a lie, racist. Attend a gathering pushing for smaller government and fiscal responsibility, racist.
Over the past 6 years, the overspend on the racist card even exceeds the deficit that Obama has run up (that last statement also makes me a racist).
I wonder how Lanny Davis would defend the frat.
I don't get the outrage either. College students get drunk and behave badly. This is news?
I'll worry about drunken frat brothers singing the n-word when I stop hearing it spoken several times per minute in the inner city.
"Obviously, the frat crossed the line, but Elie Mystal does herself no favors by starting her piece with such obliviousness."
Elie is male.
(Also black.)
So much stupid in that article. "Massive disrespect to a black president" is racist? So without more, we automatically know that the "black" part is the reason for the "massive disrespect"? Couldn't be politics, or dislike of his personality, or any of the other reasons large numbers of Americans since our founding have shown "massive disrespect" towards our presidents?
Clearly someone is obsessed with Obama's race.
"They definately had a reputation at mine. Not a racist one, but a worst frat on campus kind of reputation of the tacky, drunken, don't drink the punch variety."
I remember that! Their nickname was "Same A**holes Everywhere."
SAEs were a medium level fraternity when I was in college. Racism was common in the 50s in colleges but it was at a low level like most 50s racism. I cannot imagine anyone doing something like that idiotic song.
Jews were also discriminated against although there were two in my Fiji chapter who were non-practicing. There were a couple of big Jewish fraternities and several friends of mine in medical school who joined my non-Jewish medical school fraternity were told by the guys in the Jewish medical fraternity that they had given up their chance at practicing at Cedars in LA by doing so.
One thing common in such groups then and now was an urge to be outrageous. Now, it is far too dangerous for kids to do so except by marching around with Palestinian flags or "Hands up Don't shoot." Acting white will get you kicked out of school and fired from a job.
The students disgust me and I don't understand how they think singing that song was fun.
But I don't understand how this has become national news.
"Elie is male.
(Also black.)"
That explains a lot. Both facts.
The SAE house at UW-Madison just added 3 or 4 stories to their lakefront House.
Somebody, Anybody, Everybody.
As to the author's overall point, yes there is sometimes unquestionably racist behavior and you'll notice it gets universally condemned. No one is defending the SAE chapter, they are only discussing what the appropriate punishment should be.
But that doesn't mean that there aren't cases where racism may or may not be at play--sure, some cop could harass a black pedestrian because of the man's race. Or, he could have harassed him because the cop is a jerk, and would have harassed anyone. Or, the cop could have acted properly, and was stopping the pedestrian based on reasonably suspicion (e.g., overheard him tell someone he had cocaine on him). To point out that racism isn't definitely at play in such a scenario doesn't "make excuses for racists"--it's simply being open minded and rational, the way attorneys are supposed to be which probably is something Mr. Mystical could learn.
Their nickname was "Same A**holes Everywhere."
Ha. Yes.
The frat was wrong, the frat was stupid. I can't get too worked up about it otherwise.
"Elie is male.
(Also black.)"
Ah, I could have caught the male part--the only other Elie I heard of was Elie Wiesel. Who incidentally was just in the news as a supporter of Benjamin Netanyahu.
As for Elie being black, I didn't make a racial claim and indeed hadn't given it a thought. I don't read Above the Law much but the perception I have is that they are heterodox and so I did not assume the writer was left-wing until a couple of lines into the first paragraph.
Any way he discredits his whole argument with the out-of-touch-with-reality first paragraph.
Black people just don't understand racism. White conservatives? Now they "get it".
Okay so a black male is hyperventilating--and maybe some of is hyperbole was intended to be sarcastic. You have to reach to equate "antebellum South" with celebrating its ties to the Confederacy.
So what happened here? A group of SAE's got drunk (my stars and garters, I'm shocked!) and sang a stupid and vile song. (Fifty years ago in my own fraternity days members were known to sing songs that would, these days, get them castrated by the feminist police. Fortunately those fellows grew up--at least I think they did.)
SAE has its own reputational problems on some campuses where the young ladies characterize SAE as "Sexual Assault Expected".
But the national fraternity and Oklahoma University moved swiftly here; the charter yanked, the members expelled, and the fraternity kicked off campus. I'm not quarreling with the outcome here, but I wonder about its efficacy.
Does that mean that the special little black flowers at OU will never have their ears assaulted again by these same white youts using the dreaded "N" word which is so vile coming from a white mouth--and so frequently used back in the hood? Somehow I doubt it.
Freedom of association.
Freedom of speech.
Those are the things under threat, not the feelings of black activists.
N is for nail, Navidad, nest
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garage mahal said...
Black people just don't understand racism. White conservatives? Now they "get it".
3/10/15, 9:33 AM
Now that right there is FUNNY! Good one Garage! You standing in for "he who will not be named"?
Just like men can't "get" anything about rape and no adult can relate to a kid's problems.
Anymore I ask of a news report, "Why is this the story?" Althouse has taught me to pay attention to what is not being said and stories that aren't reported.
I think this particular story is the story because it leads into a dance our country does. It's the Black Grievance/White Guilt Two-Step. Lots of people dance this dance, especially black activists and white liberals. The dance draws attention, creates controversy, and the news media crave attention (ratings, page views).
Meanwhile, across America lots of other people do bad things or say bad things, little of which ever becomes the Story.
Shut down/shutter all fraternities immediately. They serve no purpose.
"Black people just don't understand racism. White conservatives? Now they "get it"."
Or, some people (white, black or other) can look at a situation rationally to determine whether and how racism may have played a part, while other people (also white, black or other) are obsessed with race and can only see others as members of racial groups and oppression politics. From your comment, you seem to identify with the latter.
But please, tell me again about how you judge people's ability to understand things based solely on their racial group. Nothing disturbingly racist about that.
If Racism does not exist, and its Democrat politcal tactics to see it, then why do well educated young men form a group that gathers to celebrate its Founders day by boasting of mob lynchings as proof of social class superiority? Just asking.
They are announcing that they are Leopold and Loeb wannabes. If I was their intended Bobby Franks and heard that it would make me want to attack them first unless I was a superior civilized man than them.
They aren't well educated young men, they are just young men. It takes an exceptional mind to become "well educated" a modern university. I don't think there are a lot of exceptional brains there, just a fairly average lot.
They are performing tribal rites as is natural. Young men form tribes.
Tribes have enemies. Tribal rituals require the mocking of enemies.
Althouse points out something I should have checked for myself:
Elie is male.
(Also black.)
But to me that makes my misstated comment at 9:10 even more apropos. Elie should be bouncing up and down and turning cartwheels down the street. His puppet master, Barack Obama deliberately set out as a matter of policy to worsen race relations in this country, and Obama has succeeded in that goal. So of course Mystal's happy.
garage mahal:"Shut down/shutter all fraternities immediately. They serve no purpose"
Why don't you march on down the street and tell that to the "blacky's" at Omega Psi Phi?
LOL
Not to worry. You're almost back in "fighting shape".
Big Mike: "But to me that makes my misstated comment at 9:10 even more apropos. Elie should be bouncing up and down and turning cartwheels down the street. His puppet master, Barack Obama deliberately set out as a matter of policy to worsen race relations in this country, and Obama has succeeded in that goal. So of course Mystal's happy."
Whoa there.
Although I would agree that part of obambi's modus operandi is the exacerbation of racial tensions, there is no evidence to suggest that the actions of these jerkwads at OU (like I need a reason to point the finger at OU!) is anything other than the result of jerks being jerks.
And if you are willing to stand up and sing songs about keeping the n****** out of your fraternity, then there really isn't any other way to spin it.
I would, of course, not shut the fraternity down.
I would simply make note of who did what and know that with social media being what it is the punishment these morons will reap will be lifelong.
Drago said...
I would, of course, not shut the fraternity down.
I would simply make note of who did what and know that with social media being what it is the punishment these morons will reap will be lifelong.
3/10/15, 10:13 AM
I would normally go along with you but as they are a collage fraternity and now-a-days collages are all about being mommy and daddy, I rather liked the solution that was proposed up-thread, for the next 4 (hell make it six) years, only allow black pledges. That should get it sorted out.
Todd: "I would normally go along with you but as they are a collage fraternity and now-a-days collages are all about being mommy and daddy, I rather liked the solution that was proposed up-thread, for the next 4 (hell make it six) years, only allow black pledges. That should get it sorted out"
Nope.
Too easy and not creative enough.
I would require SAE to contract with Omega Psi Phi to help oversee the recruitment and acceptance process at SAE.
If SAE wants to "survive", they would be forced to collaborate directly with a few of those other fellas.
Then I would sell tickets to the PPV events of their meetings.
Oh, and popcorn. Mustn't forget that.
garage, any updates on your upcoming trek down the street to inform the "blacky's" at Omega Psi Phi that they serve no useful purpose and should shutter the entire operation?
Do keep us posted on the status of that noble and "just" effort.
It's only racist when white people do it, right.
No Whites Allowed assemblies in high school are copacetic.
Haha.. what logic. This incident proves racist and white cops are racist.
Ellie is OUTRAGED. Frat boys can be stupid. Bummer.
rhhardin said...
I don't get the outrage.
What was that old saying? Something like - you can tell who's in charge because that's who you can't make fun of.
An actual racist is good to find.
Hell, they're all over the place. Any college admissions department or government contracting or employment agency is flush with 'em.
I should this event proves CONGRESS and white cops are racist.
Mystal's logic is breathtaking.
Every ethnic group has one or more slang/slur words that refer to it, and it often actually just means the more mock-able, 'low class' members of that ethnic group.
Why is only one a zero tolerance case? Why not 'all', or 'none'? And even then, why is OK for members of that ethnic group to refer to themselves that way?
And if no one is actually harmed by the speaking of the word, why is is not just one of the more despicable examples of free speech?
Seriously. Asking for a friend.
dbp said...
Obviously, the frat crossed the line, but Elie Mystal does herself no favors by starting her piece with such obliviousness.
He's seems oblivious because he's a racist, but pretends otherwise: "It's not enough to show massive disrespect to the black President."
But he is also an example of his own statement: "Let’s not forget that racists are often quite stupid,"
No Whites Allowed assemblies in high school are copacetic.
I went an an assembly in high school that featured a black speaker who gave some sort of weird speech that involved talking about white people not knowing to duck when a gun went off at a party...honestly I would have been cool if they had just told me that would be a no whites allowed assembly.
Althouse does not usually come right out and say what she is thinking and she said hardly anything in the original post to begin with.
Before I say what I think she is after, let me tell a little story:
My dad was, in my opinion, a life-long hypochondriac. Finally, when he was about my age (damn, I really ought to see a Dr. sometime) he was diagnosed with honest to goodness heart disease. It was the best thing that ever happened to him! Finally, a real thing to complain about and a real solution--quadruple bypass surgery. He was in his 50's then and 80's now, so he has little to complain about health-wise.
Back to the point: For the racially obsessed, it must be really welcome to see some honest to goodness racism. Not that they don't complain about incidents all the time, but this is special in that it seems so unarguable.
I would bet money (without pre-checking via Google) that our very own Elie Mystal has called people racist for all or most of the reasons that supposedly can't be used to call someone racist. He is far from alone on this.
Volokh says universities cannot expel students for racist speech on 1st Amendment grounds.
Who owns the SAE frat-house? If SAE owns it, Mr. Boren can hardly legally order the members out of their home. Even if it is located on campus and landlocked, the owners must be allowed reasonable access by Common Law.
There are now reports with photos of the abandoned house being vandalized, and the cops are just sitting outside "observing and talking to people."
I don't have any sympathy for the frat nor the individuals in it. I'm amused at the Univ. President's comment that they aren't there to educate bigots (or don't want to provide servcies to bigots, something like that). Some things, see, are unforgivable. Racism, sexism, publicly holding the wrong beliefs--no place for that on campus. Now, if you're a former domestic terrorist, or march against Israel w/disgusting signs, or support Stalin...those things are welcome, that's just part of the diversity modern education should embrace. But that kind of bigotry? Get out.
From the article -
"Think about the chant: "There will never be a n**** SAE." You think they just came up with that?"
There will never be a Niger SAE. I don't get the outrage either. I mean what are the chances of SAE opening a chapter in that country? Either that, or someone's missing an asterisk.
The same neural pathways that are used to stereotype blacks are the same ones used to stereotype fraternity members.
Is it fair to judge all the current members and pledges of the SAE chapter at OU by the actions of these bigots? Or is it that the others failed to curtail a "culture" of bigotry among some of their members?
Is it fair to judge all fraternity members and pledges at OU based on the actions of these bigots?
Is it fair to judge all SAE members and pledges (and alums) based on the actions of a these bigots?
Is it fair to judge all white men or all whites worldwide?
Mystal may be a better person than these bigots, but he is narrow-minded.
Sticks and stones may break my bones.
But names?
Think about the chant: 'There will never be a n**** SAE.' You think they just came up with that?"
Of course not. I think it was copied from a Jay-Z lyric...or maybe it was Lil Wayne.
Way back when, I asserted that people who voted against Obama's laws/ideas would not be called out for being racist because of it.
(Link).
Elie Mystal comes very close to disproving my assertion, in which case ElCubanitoKC was correct.
Regarding the now-expelled students, I don't see how the chant is "threatening". Unless by threatening the President of OU refers to a threat to his own office overseeing a campus where something like this did happen.
Which students did this actually threaten? No one. This is just part of a play to "prove" that OU is an enlightened environment where all thoughts are pure. (I guess there has to be one such place in the world).
The bigger news is the decommit of the O-Line guy, defecting to Alabama (as if that's a better place).
It's déclassé to be prejudiced against blacks. A truly distinguished elitist looks down upon frat members.
MayBee: But I don't understand how this has become national news.
Because the people in charge of deciding what's news these days are operating on the same mental and emotional level as stupid drunk frat boys.
Just take that into account, and the fact that their last go (the UVA non-rape) at Southern frat boys (the Hitlers in our midst) ended ignominiously, and you've got a satisfactory explanation.
That last damp squib (and there have been so many!) probably made them really sore and itching for payback, so they've probably been desperately scratching away to find something, anything. Some drunk Oklahomans isn't something, but I guess it counts as "anything", and these guys make a living out of making nothing into anything, so there ya go.
mccullough: The same neural pathways that are used to stereotype blacks are the same ones used to stereotype fraternity members.
Demonstrating once again that the real root of the problem is using our neural pathways.
We could put an end to inequality and discrimination if we could just lick that habit.
With more funding for the right programs, we could accomplish that before the middle of this century.
SAE was a really good house where I went to school. They had a lot of Jewish members and a few blacks, a good few Asians. It was a northeastern engineering school. They didn't seem to care about skin color but were very concerned about keeping up the house GPA, having good manners toward others, and the ability to do keg stands. I was thinking about pledging them because I'd made some friends in the house but decided I was more of a part time beer drinker, rather than a professional.
Two University of Oklahoma students were expelled today...a decision that President David Boren says speaks to his school's "zero tolerance" policy
I smell a precedent.
CWJ: "Either that, or someone's missing an asterisk"
Asterisks are racist.
"Asterisk" is also a "code" word.
And a "dog whistle".
And most definitely a "trigger".
Expelling the students is illegal. The university should be ashamed of itself.
That aside, I'm amused by all the Shock and Dismay over the "revelation" that SAE is racist. This is not a new thing, guys.
If they were taped chanting "F--k the Jews!" on most college campuses today they'd probably get medals.
How did this become a national story?
Easy.
Racism must forever and always be in the news and stirring up minorities.
Imagine if Racism were gone. What would happen to the minority vote and Democrat election prospects?
No, we can't have that.
So, there must always be more and more racial agitation to continue to stir the pot.
Otherwise, Democrats and their policies will lose.
The issue is not skin and hair colors. It is a caste system that we cannot escape from.
We are either all in this together or we are dividing people into aristocrats of a Monarchy and its serfs.
Skin color is an easy way to do that. But the desire to class-ify life like that is dangerous because sooner for later Serfs R Us and Masters are them.
They're idiots and deserve to be expelled. But watching Boren crawl to the mob afterwards was pathetic. He has no authority on that campus anymore.
The mob will of course be protesting 50 Cent lyrics next, right?
So, SAE members got caught acting like the man Obama hired as his head speechwriter, Jon Favreau?
Well, in a way they are right... There never will be one at SAE cause THERE WILL BE NO SAE!
They are kaput!
How stupid, and yes racist, were these kids.
These frat members are disgusting racists. But, no public university has the right to violate the 1st amendment. It’s not constitutional for the University of Oklahoma to expel students for racist speech. Their repugnant speech is protected.
SAEs were one of two traditionally southern fraternities on my campus (the other being Kappa Alpha Order). Both had some racist songs like this. As a member of another fraternity, I hated hearing that stuff then and hate it more now. The national fraternity was right to immediately suspend the chapter. But I heard the same shit 20 years ago in KY from them.
All that said, their speech is constitutionally protected and they shouldn't be expelled.
So much stupidity all at the same time - it boggles the mind.
I remember reading a sci-fi novel (maybe by Heinlein?) years ago in which, about half-way through the book, we learn that the protaganist is Black. It's set in a future in which people don't even think in racial categories anymore.
In the mid-'60's when the civil rights legislation was passed, I thought we were heading into that kind of race-blind future, and I think a lot of others thought the same. That was something to aspire to.
But instead, because of quotas and affirmative action, we've all had to become MORE race conscious. I know people who voted for Obama because they thought that having a Black president would reduce race-consciousness, but it hasn't: It's increased it. Just look at the Selma observance, at the reaction to Ferguson, and on and on.
I think what those frat boys sang was despicable, but I think the blame for it can be spread pretty widely.
But instead, because of quotas and affirmative action, we've all had to become MORE race conscious.
That's a pretty idiotic thing to say. When Heinlein wrote "Starship Troopers" (which is the book I believe you're talking about -- the main character turns out to be Filipino), people of certain races were flat-out banned from public accommodations. Affirmative action may be racist, but it is a pale imitation of Jim Crow.
In any case, a chant about banning "niggers" from SAE isn't a modern reaction to heightened race sensitivity. They've been pulling shit like that since the days when the membership owned actual black slaves.
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