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७४ टिप्पण्या:
Movement atheists need to relax.
I didn't guess correctly, but what in the world is this:
"... and I'll show you a party to which I'd ask you to remember not to invite me.”
supposed to mean? Strange.
What an atheist is depends on how literalist the other side is.
"a Yale colleague who is a committed atheist."
There is the reason I am not one. I don't know and when I find out it will be too late.
Atheists are the most annoying religion aside from Muslims.
I feel strongly about nothing.
The article never quite gets around to explaining why the demographic thing is a problem. Is Atheism running for office?
This is why the talk about the religious right should induce eye-rolling from all listeners.
Hispanics and Blacks form a core voter block for the Dems while simultaneously being among the most religious groups in the US. Don't forget that Prop 8 passed because of overwhelming support from blacks and hispanic voters.
Given the left's attempt to bar the enforcement of immigration laws I'll be curious to see how this ultimately plays out.
"but what in the world is this... supposed to mean?"
It means: I'm going to remember that a gathering of atheists is going to be a lot of guys and I'll find something else to do.
By contrast, churches are overloaded with females, right?
That's not a good signal either.
I think if you have a movement/ideology you want to lure more people into, you ought to be showing a balance of different kinds of people. Organizations that have to strive to achieve diversity are trying to manipulate their image for their own purposes.
One reason to oppose diversity striving is so that organizations will reveal their unappealingness and you can stay the hell away without investing too much time.
One reason to oppose diversity striving is so that organizations will reveal their unappealingness and you can stay the hell away without investing too much time.
Like diversity in traditionally male jobs.
By contrast, churches are overloaded with females, right?
Come to the light side!
We have nookies.
"Like diversity in traditionally male jobs."
That is a good point.
A great many traditionally male jobs suck and the pay is as high as it is because nobody actually wants to do them.
Actually there is already something of an ideological conflict between feminists and atheists right now.
I guessed a Tupperware party.
Atheists are pretty damn annoying, especially the ones who try to do things like argue thst you can't have Christmas symbols in the public square. anytime thyr talk about separation of church and state they suggest it means freedom FROM religion. Thsts not what was meant. It was said as a way to extend freedom of religion. Churches were afraid that the govt would force a specific religion on the states. And this was Jeffersons way of saying there wouldn't be enforced state religion.
Thsts not to say that Christians can't be annoying in their own right.
For self-respecting atheists, lefty condescension toward religion should be harder to take than thin-gruel feminized Christianity.
In general, though, religiosity in the U.S. seems overrated and overstated. Lots of non-confessing non-practicing atheists around.
"Atheists are the most annoying religion aside from Muslims."
As a group, atheists are no different than theists. There are evangelists who feel compelled to convert others, there are assholes who feel compelled to insult others, and there are people who believe what they believe and feel no compunction to impose their belief on others.
"Organizations that have to strive to achieve diversity"
Isn't that pretty much all of them? What organizations are naturally "diverse"? (I put it in quotes because its definition is so ... elastic.)
Look up Tim Hawkins on You Tube for his choruses for atheists. One is "No one loves the little children..."
Christopher
Hispanics and Blacks form a core voter block for the Dems while simultaneously being among the most religious groups in the US.
Re Hispanics,my reply would be not necessarily that religious, judging from the following anecdotes.
I know a librarian at a 98% Hispanic elementary school. During the Christmas season, she chose to read some books to students about the religious aspect of Christmas- such as Christmas celebrating the birth of Christ. Most of her students didn't know this- they thought Christmas was only about Santa Claus. Incidentally, this elementary school is a block away from a Catholic church.
As the librarian is Jewish, she couldn't be accused of pushing her religion down her students' throats.
I was once conversing with some Hispanic kids, age 11-12. I mentioned the Pope to them. They had no idea the Pope was the head of the Catholic church. Coincidentally, this conversation was held across the street from a Catholic church- and less than a block from their home.
From these anecdotes, I would surmise that a substantial proportion of Hispanics are not very religious.
The more newly arrived are less religious.
Thanks for nothing, Althouse. Because of you I have now contributed to the click-count of the linked Bloomberg article, which is the stupidest bit of audience-trolling I have read all week.
I'm sick and tired of hearing about atheists. The refusal to believe in God is not a positive belief in anything. "Hey gang, lets us all get together and celebrate the fact that we don't believe in something!"
I find them boring as all hell.
The fact that the author of that piece is "a professor of law at Yale University" honestly boggles my mind.
Back home from Church on Palm Sunday this is a reminder that the dreaded Patriarchy means there is a Fatherhood that invites sons and daughters to be adopted into a Family.
The Atheist's party by contrast, is not attractive invites men and women to declare themselves to be courageous loners...but then what.
Well there is always drugs and a courageous suicide all alone.
By contrast, churches are overloaded with females, right?
Not mine...I think you'd be surprised how many men there are in the pews. But we're Catholic.
Maybe you're thinking of the Methodists or U-U's.
Well women generally don't go so far into jerkdom as men do. I know, I know, stereotypes and all that.
But most of the true A@#holes I've known in life have been of the male persuasion So it figures that atheism is more attractive to men than it is to women. There's a sort of self selection process going on there.
Looking at this bar chart from the CDC, there might be a statistical correlation between being atheist and committing suicide.
Maybe suicide has a race problem too.
When it comes to deities, I am like the "Q" in LGBTQ. I am not sure if there is a god operating somewhere in the universe, but I am quite sure that the traditional deities of Earth are quite fictitious. So my religious slogan is "Not YOUR God!"
I think I will found the NYG movement. Remember, Althousians, it all started here.
And while we're talking about atheism and death, it's worthwhile noting that it's Palm Sunday today.
If by Hispanic one means Mexican or Cuban, the Church was always rather weak in these countries even in Spanish times. In Mexico for instance there was quite a large segment of the population that, for centuries, rarely had access to a priest, these mainly being the rural, more indigenous people. There may be a church in the local town, but not out in the villages. By a coincidence these people are also those most likely to immigrate to the US, legally or illegally.
You can see the hatred and ignorance of atheism by the theists in some of the comments here. Just like the left's deliberate misunderstanding of conservative thinking it is a cheap and dishonest means to an imagined moral superiority. Not that it doesnt go both ways, as can be seen by the attention whoring of some atheists who shout from a soapbox.
Most atheists are simply not convinced by religious dogma or mythogical explanations, especially as many over the centuries have been contravened by the accumulation of scientific discovery.
Live and let live people.
"You can see the hatred and ignorance of atheism by the theists in some of the comments here."
You can? I can't. Are you sure you don't just have an over-vivid imagination?
My wife told me yesterday that her son has a new girlfriend. "She's a practicing Catholic" she told me proudly. So I asked if she was any good at it yet.
"Thanks for nothing, Althouse. Because of you I have now contributed to the click-count of the linked Bloomberg article, which is the stupidest bit of audience-trolling I have read all week."
Stupidest? It's written by a Yale lawprof!
(I see you noticed that...)
"And while we're talking about atheism and death, it's worthwhile noting that it's Palm Sunday today."
Everyone here is not going to church...
Or did you go real early?
Or do you read blogs in church?
"You can? I can't. Are you sure you don't just have an over-vivid imagination?"
"The Atheist's party by contrast, is not attractive invites men and women to declare themselves to be courageous loners...but then what.
Well there is always drugs and a courageous suicide all alone."
"Atheists are the most annoying religion aside from Muslims."
"I feel strongly about nothing."
None so blind....
"Stupidest? It's written by a Yale lawprof!"
I think Paul Zrimsek's comment is apt:
"The article never quite gets around to explaining why the demographic thing is a problem. Is Atheism running for office?"
Contra Bob at 9:38, the SJs aren't going after atheists in general, but they are going after Richard Dawkins, for the unforgivable sin of being an atheist who dislikes all religions, not just Christianity, and is willing to call out feminists for ignoring the fact that women have it much worse in Muslim cultures than in Christian cultures.
Dawkins is the public face of atheism, and he's an asshole. This contributes to the perception that atheists are all assholes.
"The refusal to believe in God is not a positive belief in anything."
What a strange point of view.
You have an exceedingly low bar for defining "hatred", you delicate little flower you.
If Jesus sees his shadow we have six more weeks of winter.
Maybe that's next week.
There's a vast system that made no sense in Sunday School and makes no sense now.
Against which system that nice joke makes a point.
Paul said...
Most atheists are simply not convinced by religious dogma or mythogical explanations, especially as many over the centuries have been contravened by the accumulation of scientific discovery.
My religion is not believing in Odin, Zeus, Huitzilopitchli, Shiva, Santa Claus and the magical powers of dead albinos - all at the same time!
Live and let live people.
Superstitious people get "wee-weed-up" because, deep down, they know they're really just superstitious.
@Prof Althouse,
Or do you read blogs in church?
Ssssshhhhhhhh! Don't start blabbing it around, okay? C'mon, those sermons are as boring as dishwater & you know it!
I'm just trying to figure out who should be the patron saint of WiFi, so we can build a shrine.
"...atheism’s significant race and gender problems." Maybe not everyone sees these as problems. I'm an atheist, and I really can't bring myself to give a shit about diversity. Carter quotes Craig Keener to bolster his claim that atheism is "deeply Eurocentric", apparently forgetting what he wrote in the preceding paragraph, that 42% of north Asians are atheist, compared with only 14% of western Europeans. I'm guessing Carter is one of those folks who took Mathematics and Science as Art in Contemporary Theatre or some such fluff designed to let morons get college degrees.
Atheism is a simplistic philosophy based on an unacknowledged faith. It does not have a religious or moral basis other than through individual affiliations.
As for mostly white and mostly male, who cares? Anyone can be atheist, or make affirmative statements about phenomenon outside of the scientific domain, and they do. However, if you want a community, then you should probably join an organized movement.
The price for entry into the Democrat cult is to support human sacrifice (i.e. pro-choice). There is an ordinate young, female, and black membership in the left-wing cult. This cult or materially-oriented religion should be a greater concern than a merely obnoxious faith.
"Or do you read blogs in church?"
Pew bloggers : the latest Reddit sub!
I'm an old man. Belief in an eternal afterlife is remarkably seductive when you reach a certain age. I can't rationally believe that there is anything about my particular configuration of atoms and consciousness that an all powerful being would like to preserve for all eternity, but I certainly find the idea attractive.....Well, I'll find out soon enough. Or maybe not. The awful thing about nothingness is that it's impossible to perceive its existence. And nothingness might be the all powerful force that is calling me home to rest.
Scott said...
Looking at this bar chart from the CDC, there might be a statistical correlation between being atheist and committing suicide.
Maybe suicide has a race problem too.
What the chart you linked makes abundantly clear, Scott, is that suicide has an obvious gender problem. Since it's men killing themselves, though, no reason for anyone to give a shit.
Ann Althouse said...
By contrast, churches are overloaded with females, right?
That's not a good signal either.
No, that's fine, women wanting to do something more than men and as a result tilting the gender balance (with "too much" voluntary participation by women) is ok, because women are good and their voluntary choices should be respected (praised, even). Men, on the other hand, are historical oppressors, so if their natural inclinations lead to an over-representation in a given activity (college intramural sports, say) then that's de facto evidence of discrimination and must be punished. As evidence take the fact that you have not seen any articles bemoaning the very over-representation of women in church to which you just referred.
When women choose activities, clubs, or professions and those choices lead to a skew in women's favor it's ok. When men do the same it's discrimination and evidence of a moral failure (of men and of institutions). This is called fairness.
if you have a movement/ideology you want to lure more people into, you ought to be showing a balance of different kinds of people
I would argue that the Catholic Church is one of the most diverse organizations on Earth, and has done just that.
I'm not sure "lure" in its sinister connotation is the same as "spreading the Good news" or "baptizing all nations".
But, I can see a sinister motive in luring people away from God.
Micael K. wrote: Atheists are the most annoying religion aside from Muslims.
Please explain how not having a religion is having a religion. Be careful, because your comment skates the raw edge of crazy.
Diversity and equality are rooted in in the belief that we all stem from a loving creator. One who loves and sees all his creations as equal.
Once that goes out the window, you are left with only the survival of the fittest, where the notion of equality no longer exists.
Many who have fought for diversity and equality have done so through a basis of it being the will of God. The abolishonists and Dr. Martin Luther King are good examples.
During this Holy Week we are reminded that Jesus came for the benefit of all. Even the athiests.
My apologies for posting sober, but somebody needs to mention Chris Langan.
http://www.megafoundation.org/CTMU/Q&A/Archive.html
Of course, were he named Muhhamet or Budha instead of Chris who knows how the explanation would have turned out.
Our church isn't majority female. I'd say 50-50. It also isn't majority older people. I'd estimate 1/3 40+, 1/3 25-40, and 1/3 18-25. (The 18-25 portion might be larger. Hundreds fewer chairs have to be set up when the college students are out of town.) I'm not including children because they're not in the main room to be easily estimated.
When I was an atheist, it definitely seemed like most others were dudes. There were a lot of female atheists who turned out to be New Agers when you talked to them about it. I'm not sure how this piece is defining "problem" though. Problem with atheist-atheist mating? I don't know.
You don't get to decide whether or not there's a God. You do get to decide whether or not to believe in and worship God, but that's different.
Think about gravity. You can decide not to believe in gravity, but your disbelief doesn't mean that you can float up to the clouds.
The demographics of those who disbelieve in gravity is of no consequence, and hence of no interest to me.
Most of the churches I've belonged to have been fairly well balanced between men and women. I now live in an area with a lot of retirees, and women do tend to outlive men, so you might expect a slight predominance of women in the pews (although I haven't noticed that).
I just attended a Palm Sunday service at church in a more urban/suburban area, with a lot of young and middle-aged families and I didn't note any predominance of women over men.
I've never been to an atheist service, so I can't comment on the gender gap there.
"Please explain how not having a religion is having a religion. Be careful, because your comment skates the raw edge of crazy."
If you read what atheists write, possibly including you, it is obvious that it is a religion. If not why make such a big fuss about it ? I already said I am agnostic. You obviously believe you know better than I but why ? Do you have the inside word ? Or WORD ?
"By contrast, churches are overloaded with females, right?"
Only in Ireland. The men are all standing out front smoking.
"said the superstitious goof who called R. Feynmann "arrogant".
I'm sorry, Did I somehow offend you, asshole ?
I've considered myself to be an atheist from about the age of sixteen. After the first couple of years I haven't found any need to discuss/proselytize about my atheism with too many others. I'm now 73. Over the years I've found that people who feel the need to push or promote their atheism are also something else....... Annoying assholes..
"What a strange point of view."
What a strange response - that refutes nothing. The belief that God doesn't exist is not a positive belief. Its simply an expression of Non-belief. Its a philosophical zero.
One might as well join a club where everyone doesn't believe in Unicorns.
"The refusal to believe in God is not a positive belief in anything."
Refusal to believe? The implication is that belief is a requirement that I am shirking. Strange.
"One might as well join a club where everyone doesn't believe in Unicorns."
This seems relevant to the proselytizing atheists. I don't understand them either. I haven't joined anything.
Definition of "refuse" - indicate or show that one is not willing to do something.
"This seems relevant to the proselytizing atheists."
Again, how can one proselytize a non belief?
Its why Athiesm can't be a religion. Its not a positive belief, merely a non-belief. Hitchens, Hitler and Stalin were all atheists - I doubt they had much in common.
"Its why Athiesm can't be a religion."
I don't think it is.
I guessed "Lady's Night." at the Fort Benning Officer's Club.
Alas.
Plenty of people at churches, mosques, and synagogues who are atheists. It's a cultural, communitarian positive for them. Plenty of believers who don't go to church either.
Better than nothingness is a high standard.
Not sure if I'm an atheist of not since I do believe in first cause, and that is the root of religion. I agree with the first comment that movement atheists are a pain in the ass. I don't see much difference between them and true believers. First cause is unknowable. And death is scary.
There does seem to be mounting evidence that we live in a self organizing universe. What that means in terms of "God" is beyond my pay grade. I don't think it means that "Someone" is paying attention to us. It does make for an interesting long term future of the physical universe.
Diversity and equality are rooted in in the belief that we all stem from a loving creator. One who loves and sees all his creations as equal.
Once that goes out the window, you are left with only the survival of the fittest, where the notion of equality no longer exists.
The legal and moral principle that all men are equal was invented not by Christians, but by Stoicism-steeped ancient Roman jurists.
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