"We can find no other explanation as to why anyone would build these structures, at such great effort and expense, in a site which at that time was totally inaccessible, away from the local community, with material which is not typical of the regional architecture," [said Daniel Schavelzo, of the University of Buenos Aires], taking a team of journalists to see the site and capture remarkable images of buildings atrophying in the jungle humidity....
"Apparently, halfway through the Second World War, the Nazis had a secret project of building shelters for top leaders in the event of defeat — inaccessible sites, in the middle of deserts, in the mountains, on a cliff or in the middle of the jungle like this," Schavelzon argued.
It isn’t likely the site, which hints at one of Argentina’s darkest chapters, got much use. That’s because at the end of the war, it turned out Nazis didn’t need to hide. "Nazis who found refuge in Argentina after the war … lived without incident," the New York Times said, attributing the country’s "open-door” immigration policy that forged what it later called a "haven for Nazis."
२४ मार्च, २०१५
"According to a fresh findings announced over the weekend... the Nazis made it deeper into the Argentine jungle in search of refuge than anyone imagined."
"Hundreds of miles north, along the border with Paraguay, rises the Parque Teyú Cuare. A path winds into the nature preserve, opening to a trove of 'mysterious buildings' that are 'battered by time... What were these buildings? Who built them? For what?'"
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Hanna-Barbera explored this theme in their 1964 "Jonny Quest" episode Shadow Of The Condor. The villain wasn't a Nazi but rather a Fighter Ace from WW I. But a German's a German and everybody got the message.
The Third Reich was transplanted easily into an outpost of Europe's Spanish American Empire.
That's no surprise culturally. Rome's Catholic Church arranged for it then and is happy to be ruled by it now.
The buildings are still there, but the clones are gone.
Be sure to check the basement for clones.
Send in the clones.
Tim Matheson was the voice of Johnny Quest.
Did not know that.
What are you on about, TradGuy? Please clarify, as I've read your comment several times now and it's still incoherent to me.
This has the makings of one wacky sitcom. A bunch of Nazi expats living in the South American jungle, getting into mixups with the local population and trying to pretend they're just Dutch tourists.
As far As I can tell, TradititionalGuy believe the Catholic church is run by nazis who are also secret Jews.
If they find any nipple clamps then we shall know Ilsa was there.
I am Laslo.
In a perfect world, decendants of the Nazis would have been discovered living there and the Maysles Brothers would have made a documentary.
The Holy Roman Empire once ruled Spain, Austria and the Netherlands. It was awarded Spanish America by the Pope and paid for it by Spanish Inquisition loot from Moors and Jews. They used the treasure from Aztec and Inca mines to pay for a massive fleet and 400,000 man army to invade the Henry VIII's whore's daughters England. etc. etc.
So looting and pillaging is a Holy Roman Activity. Hitler was an admired man for it at first, but messed up by taking on Stalin's Russia too soon.
After Stalingrad the Nazi leadership knew that had to prepare an escape. So they diligently sent gold to Swiss Banks and used it to pay Jesuits to arrange for their travel to Spanish America where they and their loot were very welcome in Argentina.
Funny thing to me is seeing the Rat Line now reverse as Argentina sends its Jesuit Archbishop back to rule in the Church of Rome.
I used to work with a guy named Rusty Knipelklampen.
He had a daughter called Ilsa.
Probably a coincidence.
Rusty had an eye patch, but he preferred not to wear it.
Phillip Kerr’s Bernie Gunther noir detective series is a really great fictionalized account of Nazi Germany from the mid 1930’s through the 1950’s. Well researched and fun to read. The series jumps back and forth from the mid 1930’s through the 1950’s and from Berlin to South America. Written in hard boiled noir style, its uniqueness lies in the criminal motivations. It follows the lives of historical characters. They espouse Nazi ideology in public, but they are really opportunistic criminals who murder for money, property and power. HBO/Tom Hanks purchased the rights as a TV series. Really fun to read, but I think it would be very difficult to recreate 1930’s-40’s Berlin for a TV series.
Oh shit, thanks to Bob Boyd, we're reaching Peak Laslo.
Argentine Nazis.
I hate those guys.
WEB Griffin has a whole series of novels on the story of German influence and migration to Argentina. His research in his other novels is excellent so these are probably pretty true, as well.
Is this really a "fresh find"? The video here shows a sign at the site that doesn't look new to me.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/23/nazis-secret-hideout-found-in-remote-argentinian-jungle
And it's always nice to see references to Jonny Quest! An old favorite.
If it weren't for the Nazis we wouldn't have Art like this.
Not quite a Silver Lining.
I am Laslo.
Seems like a story mostly for tourists. Not much evidence. And the sign at the site is 10+ years old.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/23/nazi-hideout-south-america-jungle
A hoax. They erected small stome buildings in an area full of trees? Is this Schavelzo person in the habit of finding nazi hiding places where most people see abandoned ag or mining buildings?
It is common knowledge that the wives of Nazi leaders often shaved their pubic hair into swastikas as a symbol of Allegiance.
After the war those that made it to Argentina would slip across into Brazil to have the swastikas removed.
Thus, the origin of the Brazilian Wax.
History.
I am Laslo.
traditionalguy=traditionalkrazeeguy.
"And so the Rosicrucians (aka Knights Templar) had this DNA from Jesus in the holy grail, and they used it to make clone who was a super-scientist. He invented the A-Bomb and tried to give it Hitler (Hitler was a Catholic altar boy, you know), but the Grays -- they aren't the good aliens, none of 'em are good -- got the A-Bomb first and handed it off to Harry Truman. Did you know that Harry Truman was a secret Jew? He was. That's why he has no middle initial and his birth certificate is all in capital letters.
Let's see you argue with that."
According to Monty Python, they hid out in the UK.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLRRbAiKNWo&list=RDKLRRbAiKNWo#t=389
Laslo Spatula wrote:
"It is common knowledge that the wives of Nazi leaders often shaved their pubic hair into swastikas as a symbol of Allegiance."
You sure it wasn't shaved into little Hitler mustaches, Laslo? Cuz I think I've run into a few of those. One was named "Eva".
It's tough to believe that this was a secret compound sponsored by the Nazi regime.
I'll guess that this was built by someone notorious, but not Hitler, nor his inner circle.
Maybe Butch and Sundance?
@Terry... Why do you need to confuse history that we all know as true with a snow job of paranoid myths?
Besides Harry Truman was not a Jew. He was a normal Scots-Irish Southern Baptist from Missouri who loved the Jews.
And if it had been ready in time ready Artillery Battery Captain Truman would have fired the first Fission device at the Nazis.
Sounds like Trad guy has been reading W.E.B. Griffith's Honor Bound series of books. In them, the Roman church cooperated with the OSS in smuggling German secret agents who were experts on the Soviet Union and still controlled spies there, to Argentina, in return for cooperation with US intelligence. They and their families were dressed as monks, nuns, and orphans and flown there on an OSS owned airline. His books seem to be very well researched.
So in this case the New York Times is against "open borders".
Interesting.
BTW, its good that we're still hearing about Nazi's - 70 years later.
Its a subject that never grows old.
Imagine, if you're old enough, people going on and on about Kaiser Bill and Pan-Germanism in 1988.
For a young girl, Johnny Quest was really hot. And don't forget Johnny's dog, Bandit. It still holds true girls love a boy with a dog!
I also though Race Bannon was pretty cute, too!
I suppose you mean W.E.B. Griffin. But here's the thing: they're fiction.
Thanks to the Nazis, I was born in Asunción to a Naval Intelligence Officer father and a mother who (rare in WWII) had accompanied her man to his overseas station.
The attending docs and nurses all had diplomas decorated with the Hakenkreuz hanging on the wall.
My parents employed some 8 servants during their stay in Asunción, and we three were there after the war until 1946, long enough to check on the incoming Nazis and to be in Buenos Aires for the first election of Juan Peron.
The third saddest thing that occurred aftr the war was the promotion of Nazi von Braun to lead our space program.
The second saddest was the failure of de-nazification in Germany, where loads of Nazi mayors and school principals kept their positions.
The saddest was Operation Condor, in which Amerika participated with Argentina, Paraguay, Uruguay, Chile, Bolivia and Brazil in the "disappearance" of some 40,000 young people.
I'm at my home in Rio de Janeiro now, still waiting for the extradition of Henry Kissinger, whom we will try as a war criminal as soon as he gets here.
I'm skeptical.
I didn't see anything about the buildings that showed they were made by Nazis, and the coins and pots could have come from anywhere.
Hide out in Argentina? What about the Boys From Brazil?
.."The saddest was Operation Condor, in which Amerika participated with Argentina, Paraguay, Uruguay, Chile, Bolivia and Brazil in the "disappearance" of some 40,000 young people..."
Argentina, Paraguay, Uruguay, Chile, Bolivia and Brazil know how to 'disappear' tens of thousands of people without any help from the US. They have since even before the conquistadores got off the boat.
Race Bannon was a bit of lunk head though I suppose he had to make Dr. Quest look smart. JQ had some of the greatest theme music ever. The opening always makes me want to watch.
Is there any reason to suppose these structures were built during World War II (and by Germans, not Peronistas)
And if by Nazis, wouldn't the mid to late 1950s be a more logical period of time?
I don't get the idea that these people now have any idea when they were built.
I too am skeptical. Those just don't look like buildings any modern people would construct. More likely it's some much older, probably pre-contact buildings that some Nazis or sympathizers hid out in for a time.
I'm with John Lynch on this. Real Nazi on the run could have done much better than that jungle hideout. particularly with the Peronistas in charge. And why supply your last-ditch refuge with Nazi-era coins and kitsch, that makes no sense.
What we have isn't Martin Bormann's jungle redoubt, instead it's a half-assed garden folly constructed by an early-incarnation skinhead.
"...I'm at my home in Rio de Janeiro now, still waiting for the extradition of Henry Kissinger, whom we will try as a war criminal as soon as he gets here..."
Henry has been spotted over in the Cidade de Deus. Why don't you just hop over there and make a citizen's arrest?
jimbino wrote: The saddest was Operation Condor...
No jimbino, the saddest was that PET scan of your brain.
LarsPorsena says
"Argentina, Paraguay, Uruguay, Chile, Bolivia and Brazil know how to 'disappear' tens of thousands of people without any help from the US. They have since even before the conquistadores got off the boat."
Right, but in the upcoming War Crimes trial of Dr Kissinger, such speculation will not be allowed into evidence, and Dr Kissinger will be shot or hanged.
Giorgio says...
Also interesting is the financial ruin of what should be a very wealthy place.
And the Argentine political insider group is accused of covering up an Iranian bombing of a Jewish Community Center in exchange for Iranian money.
Iran is the Current Third Reich successor group that is seeking to finish off Jews gathered in Judea.
Mien Kampf and Jihad were once beaten foes, but having the U.S. Presidency recruited to help them has changed their status back to struggle winners.
LarsPorsena, who has never visited a favela like Cidade de Deus, says:
"Henry has been spotted over in the Cidade de Deus. Why don't you just hop over there and make a citizen's arrest?"
In fact, Ronald Biggs, of Great Train Robbery fame, did retire to a favela in Rio.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPcVIv-8WUI
Favelas are now a leading tourist attraction in Rio; the poor people who live there have spectacular views of the Bay of Guanabara, Ipanema and Copacabana--views that the rich folk in condominiums below don't have.
It remains a great mystery to me why Ann Althouse lets stand comments like that of Questor @11:28 that are pure ad hominem
Always the nazis. Always the nazis. Pity that the communists have never felt the need for a secret hide-out.
It must be that the victims the communists made were really "Nemo's" (that is no-ones).
As for the rest, TraditionalMoron is still TraditionalMoron I see. The Known-Nothing hater par excellence.
Still, as these memes seem to be passed around by Chickers pretending to be Christians (as I believe TraditionalAsshole pretends to be), atheists, progressives and such like, united in their bigotry, I would like to ask these questions;
- How is it that the CC is associated with the Nazis when the CC is supra-racial (all races of the Earth have members in the CC) and supra-national (the nazis wanted to exterminate not only the jews but also a lot of other people like for instance the Polish people. It must be that in the idiotic mind of the bigots the CC hates catholic Poland) when the nazis where just the opposite?
- How is it that in a majority protestant country like Germany was it is the CC who always get the black jack?
- When the nazi program explicitly wanted to eliminate the CC, and I quote ("http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_Christianity")
- "Positive Christianity"; Positive Christianity differed from orthodox Christianity in that Positive Christianity:
- Rejected the Jewish-written parts of the Bible (including the entire Old Testament)
- Claimed "Aryanhood" and non-Jewishness for Christ
- Promoted the political objective of national unity, to overcome confessional differences, to eliminate Catholicism, and to unite Protestantism into a single unitary Positive Christian church)
- and so on
Right, but in the upcoming War Crimes trial of Dr Kissinger, such speculation will not be allowed into evidence, and Dr Kissinger will be shot or hanged.
Later...
It remains a great mystery to me why Ann Althouse lets stand comments like that of Questor @11:28 that are pure ad hominem
Now, you were saying something about ad hominem?
That's Quaestor, BTW.
JSD - you didn't mention it, but one of Philip Kerr's Bernie Gunther books was set in Argentina: "A Quiet Flame".
The other problem with "Nazi threads" is it brings out the nuts.
The Bernie Gunther novels by Philip Kerr are great! Well done.
Also, the famous Nazi Ratline from Germany via sympathetic Catholic Priests to South America is well-documented. Both Eichmann and Mengele made it to Argentina and Brazil.
Juan Peron of Argentina allied himself with Franco of Spain, and Hitler of Germany -- he welcomed escaped Nazis.
This makes perfect sense too. If you are a Nazi in 1945, and can see the writing on the wall, what are you gonna do? You can't run East -- the Commies will string you up. You can't run West -- the allies don't like you (except the scientists). So, you run South.
Indeed, there is speculation that Hitler himself escaped the Bunker and joined his Aryan brethren in Argentina, under the protection of Peron. Sounds fanciful, I know. But, it kinda has a degree of plausibility.
Blogger jimbino said...
Thanks to the Nazis, I was born in Asunción to a Naval Intelligence Officer father and a mother who (rare in WWII) had accompanied her man to his overseas station
----------------------
naval officer in a land=locked country LOL;-)
should have use Katmandu. it would gotten more laughs;-0
LarsPorsena is nothing if not totally ignorant. There is a Paraguayan navy.
As Wikipedia notes:
Although Paraguay is a landlocked country, it has a strong naval tradition by virtue of the fact that it has access to the Atlantic Ocean through the Paraguay–Paraná rivers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_Paraguay
And he probably knows nothing about the WWII Graf Spee and its scuttling.
I'd like to recommend that LarsPorsena try the Swiss Navy Lube:
http://snlubes.com/
I liked the Bernie Gunther novels because he recreates a pre-war and post-war Berlin and all its political intrigue. The novels actually skip over the war years. So many authors go through great lengths to invent an evil villain. Kerr just steps back into history pulls out real people who committed crimes on an unimaginable scale. After the war, they continued to live in Germany while the allies try to sort out who is who. Eventually they run to South America with Swiss bank accounts only to be shaken down by Juan Peron and his henchmen. The protagonist Bernie Gunther risks everything in a losing battle to uncover the truth. The novels really stand out as a creative re-imagining of Dashiell Hammett genre.
Jimbino-
The Graf Spee was scuttled in Uruguay, not Paraguay.
When you call someone ignorant, make sure that the next thing you say isn't ignorant.
@TradGuy,
You lost me twice:
1. the HRE wasn't directly involved in the partition of the New World between Spain and Portugal, though the Papacy was involved.
2. I doubt that the Papacy was that friendly with the Nazi German government during the War.
...the long version of my response is below. It started as hazy memory, but was strengthened by a little research online.
I remember that Holy Roman Empire is sometime described as "none of the three".
The lands rules by the Holy Roman Emperor were mostly Frankish and Germanic, not Spanish.
However, there was intermarriage between various royals in Europe.
During the time 1450-1490, the Crown of Lisbon (a.k.a. Portugal) gained a lot of power via trade and the establishment of colonies and trade routes.
The Crowns of Aragon and Castile had joined during that time. In the early 1490s, they chartered an Italian named Columbus to go West and see if he could open new trade routes.
The Crown of Lisbon and the Crown of Aragon/Castile got into a dispute over who should own which Colony.
The Catholic monarchs of Europe all played a part of this political bickering.
A series of treaties between Lisbon and Castile/Aragon, as well as a Papal Bull or two, helped settle that question.
Somewhere in the next 50 years, the Crown of Castile/Aragon and the title Holy Roman Emporer were held by the same person. He was both Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor and Charles I of Spain.
However, by the time of the Spanish Armada, the Crown of Spain was separate from the Holy Roman Empire. (Philip II of Spain and his son Phillip III of Spain were uncle and cousin, respectively to Rudolf II, Holy Roman Emporer. Rudy-II wasn't a strong leader, and likely had next-to-nothing to do with the Anglo-Spanish War.)
Many, many centuries later, the Pope (and the Papal States) didn't help the Nazis directly. At least, not to my knowledge.
The Pope tried to get the new Nazi Government to not be too hard on German Catholics, but the Popes were quickly complaining that the Nazis had forgotten about the agreement.
There are accusations that the Pope didn't do enough to stop the Nazis, but I've never seen accusations that the Papacy helped the Nazi leaders find their hiding place in Argentina.
You want ad hominem, jimbino? I'll give you some: I'm amazed that you, the shameless son-of-a-breeder, dares to show your head around here.
Race Bannon was a bit of lunk head though I suppose he had to make Dr. Quest look smart. JQ had some of the greatest theme music ever. The opening always makes me want to watch.
I've longed to write a live-action Jonny Quest feature that keeps all of the kitschy 60s technology and music and action intact. It would be somewhat serious though, not like an Austin Powers send-up.
There's rumors of JQ happening as a live-action flick for a long time, but last year someone hired a writer and director to work on a script.
SJ...I am not a medieval expert on the Papacy. My years may be off some. But the role of the Papacy has always assumed a rule over all Kings of Europe by armed forces of the Catholic absolute rulers , or by plots to weaken the Papacy's enemies until the heretics like Hus, Luther and Calvin could be killed.
Nazi Germany was total a replacement religion for both Christians and Catholics.so it surprises everybody to learn the care and consideration shown by Catholic Clerics to the poor little Nazis that were dedicated killers a few months earlier and needed an accomplis after the fact.
That is hard to believe. Maybe the new Argetine Pope will dare to say what happened someday. I am sure he knows from his connections.
"There's rumors of JQ happening as a live-action flick for a long time, but last year someone hired a writer and director to work on a script."
Interesting. Although, An animated movie might be better.
I can't believe that this has not been linked yet. Or has it?
http://boingboing.net/2011/09/03/jonny-quest-opening-title-sequence-redone-as-stop-motion.html
Thanks for that, Terry!
Nazis? Always with the Nazis. Why would they need a base in hot, smelly Argentina when they have perfectly good bases in Antarctica and on the moon?
These were obviously Lizard People...but perhaps I contradict myself...
kzookitty
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