“Our resources were stretched extremely thin, yet the protesters grew in numbers and their anger increased as they neared the police department,” [Madison Police Chief Mike Koval said in a letter of complaint]. “In addition to commissioned officers working in this building 24 hours a day, there are civilian employees. Quite frankly, these civilian employees were very scared for their safety.”This makes me think about the way — back in March 2011 — protesters got into the Wisconsin State Capitol, entering through a window of the offices of one of the Democratic legislators. Meade was there and filmed it:
Building surveillance video doesn’t show much emotion on the faces of people coming into the building shortly after midnight on March 7, but Koval said the protesters were heard yelling things such as “kill the cops” and “we have guns too.”...
0:15 — See the open window near the Wisconsin Ave. entrance to the Capitol. Then the window is closed, supposedly to protect the Democratic legislator whose office is on the other side. We hear someone say "What's to lose anymore, man?" And somebody else says "What's up with that shit?" [ADDED THE NEXT MORNING: As I've blogged here, that is the window of the office of Cory Mason, a Democrat of Racine. Before "What's to lose anymore, man?" and "What's up with that shit?," you can hear someone say, "They don't want to get this representative in trouble." He then responds: "They let a few in but they said..." It's garbled at that point. Maybe you can make it out.]By the way, during the 2011 protests, the police facilitated the protests:
1:08 — You hear Meade saying that he saw people going through the window, before it was closed, chanting "Our house, our house..."
In observing the protests nearly every day through the entire period of the protests, Meade and I often tried to figure out what the police were doing, including the Capitol police. There seemed to be a policy of facilitating the protesters, perhaps because it actually was the best strategy for maintaining order when the police were vastly outnumbered. I have video of protesters assuring me that "The police are on our side."You'd think the police would have the good will of the protest crowd in Madison after all they did. But I guess that's not how we treat the police. We run hot and cold, loving and hating, depending on whether we need them and have a use for them or whether it serves our purposes to turn around and revile them.
ADDED: Pan responds: "It’s problematic when a police chief is trying to interfere with the jobs of elected representatives who represent the community and are community leaders.... It’s not behavior becoming of what I would like to see in a police chief.... I think there was an overwhelming urge to be in a position where they could feel like they were supporting the families of those being held.... I know that most of the night that the protesters were almost silent and just sitting in.... I think [Koval]’s trying to paint the police force as the victim, and the fact of the matter is that in this tragedy, it is not a police officer who is the victim … It’s not a good sign as to Chief Koval’s ability to handle issues of racial disparities in the criminal justice system."
पोस्ट्स
९२ टिप्पण्या:
It's the outrage mistake.
Outrage comes from French outre, beyond what is proper.
Make it a noun with -age, the event that is beyond what is proper.
English sees "rage" and thinks that whatever that is beyond what is proper deserves rage, the word itself says so.
This is so useful that the word was reimported back into French.
But there are two distinct things, barely visible after the word gets done, namely the event that is beyond what is proper, and the rage that happens.
The word ties them together, makes them hard to distinguish.
There used to be a choice. It wasn't automatic.
Kudos to Joe Parisi if he was the one who forced Pan to surrender his future access.
Pan should spend some time groveling at the door each morning, waiting for the lowliest City County employee to grant him access.
I guess if the voters reelect him, then this would be how they want Pan to act. Also why I'd rather not be under the power of Madison voters.
uhm.. Fire him? Hellooooo??
Again, the mob will always end up turning on you.
Dem pols need to realize that...but they won't.
A party full of Jacobins.
"You'd think the police would have the good will of the protest crowd in Madison after all they did. But I guess that's not how we treat the police. We run hot and cold, loving and hating, depending on whether we need them and have a use for them or whether it serves our purposes to turn around and revile them."
Anyone and everyone can be an egg for the omelette.
Madison, Wisconsin reenactors of the Defense of Rorke's Drift and promptly surrenders the Hospital Building as their first move.
No Victoria Crosses for them.
If a crime had happened, would Pan not have been an accessory?
I think Pan is quite fortunate things went peacefully.
I assume that he let them in through the employee entrance so they didn't have to go through the metal detectors. They claimed they had guns, but thankfully they didn't use them.
"... I know that most of the night that the protesters were almost silent and just sitting in...."
'Most' and 'almost' are convenient words to those who believe their intentions are good.
I am Laslo.
This was not a prank; had it been a prank the response would have been...take away his key.
As long as people are guilty of inciting a riot and excused because it's a race riot, there is no end to this kind of behavior. We are being led form the top.
What's this about keys.
Doesn't anybody pick locks anymore?
It's the first thing you learn in collegel.
Democrats opening the gates to admit the barbarians. It's what they do.
Respect the Back Door.
I am Laslo.
You'd think the police would have the good will of the protest crowd in Madison after all they did. But I guess that's not how we treat the police.
That was a Union Protest.
nough said...
How dare he let citizens into their own building!
What's this about keys.
Doesn't anybody pick locks anymore?
Popping locks isn't that hard. Hell, a friggin' spatula will bypass most door locks in my experience.
...I have locked myself out of my house in more than one location.
"Hands up, don't shoot." The lie that has circled the world more times than the space shuttle, and the truth is still trying to push the pillow off its face.
Way too long winded to be effective, but I am glad to see him step up in defense of his employees. I expect that he will have the full support of the board whether they like it or not.
Hot and cold on whether you need the police or not...kinda' like lawyers, no? What's the old saw? The only thing more expensive than hiring a lawyer is not hiring one.
"We run hot and cold, loving and hating, depending on whether we need them and have a use for them or whether it serves our purposes to turn around and revile them."
What do you mean, "we"?
If a crime had happened, would Pan not have been an accessory?
I think Pan is quite fortunate things went peacefully.
I just watched the video. What the hell is the matter with people? He couldn't possibly have known everyone he let in.
Garage makes a decent point here. Why are the people kept out of their own buildings? Whats up with the locks in the first place?
I saw your update, Professor. I guess Leland Pan doesn't get it.
Madison should outlaw guns and dispense with the police. It would make an interesting experiment.
The word "panic" derives from the name of the lesser god Pan.
I think our young idealist should get credit for that.
Reading about the French Revolution and the rise of Napoleon these days. Use of the mob is an important political skill.
Garage - all buildings that contain jails have some good security. So do police offices which will have holding areas for malefactors, a guarded public access, and secured areas. So do courts. This building contains these types of facilities.
If you think the doors of the jails should be unguarded, I don't know what to do with you. More coffee, perhaps??
As the article explains, Pan used his access card and his security key to let the protesters into non-public areas of this building on the night in question.
And garage is officially a loony.
Or perhaps my prior post should be addressed to Retail lawyer??
Whatever. Whenever the police offices and holding facility is combined with the other offices, there will always be secure areas and public access areas in any official building.
"They claimed they had guns, but thankfully they didn't use them."
Rules for covering lefty protests:
1. If nobody gets shot, it's a "peaceful protest."
2. If someone gets shot, it's a "mostly peaceful protest."
Rules for covering righty protests:
1. The protesters are "unruly" and "angry." The word "peaceful" doesn't apply.
2. The crowd is "virtually all white."
"uhm.. Fire him? Hellooooo??"
uhm..Hellooooo?? Leland Pan is an elected official. Here's his Facebook page, showing how he presented himself to voters.
"garage mahal said...
How dare he let citizens into their own building!"
So I guess the White House, Pentagon, prisons, all open game. C'mon in!
garage - How dare he let citizens into their own building!
Uh, well I assume there was some rationale for having locks on the building to begin with. I guess all government buildings should be open 24/7 to their citizens, which is the case where?
Garage,
I guess they should have let that guy go wherever he wanted to in the White House. As a citizen, he owned it.
"retail lawyer said...
Garage makes a decent point here. Why are the people kept out of their own buildings? Whats up with the locks in the first place?"
Dollar Store I'm guessing.
Democrats are enablers of the vicious cycle: a. Police are aware of and fear the high level of violence in the black community and respond with violence to perceived threats, particularly from black males. b. The black community responds with more violence and/or threats of violence.
Meanwhile, Democrat pols and their consorts among the mediaswine pretend that black violence in "a." either doesn't exist or is normal and, therefore, black violence and/or threats in "b." is justified.
Pan, presumably a Democrat, is apparently both an enabler and a facilitator.
Ann Althouse said...
"uhm.. Fire him? Hellooooo??"
uhm..Hellooooo?? Leland Pan is an elected official. Here's his Facebook page, showing how he presented himself to voters.
People get the politicians they deserve
retail: "Garage makes a decent point here. Why are the people kept out of their own buildings? Whats up with the locks in the first place?"
Because we are, among other things, a nation of thieves and vandals, and public officials have a responsibility to protect public property.
Democrats are enablers of the vicious cycle: a. Police are aware of and fear the high level of violence in the black community and respond with violence to perceived threats, particularly from black males. b. The black community responds with more violence and/or threats of violence.
Right on point. Black kids call the cops, to help, cops show up, they show up, kill an unarmed man. Blacks respond with no violence.
Other than than you nailed it.
" I guess all government buildings should be open 24/7 to their citizens"
And military bases too! Missile silos! Everything should be open to citizens, always and without restriction?
(Why do people think that what government owns is necessarily owned by everyone (and therefore by no one)? When you pay taxes to IRS, does that money become a resource that any citizen may use for whatever they wish to use it for? For verily what's owned by Caesar is Caesar's. Even if your taxes paid for it.)
Larvell said...
Rules for covering righty protests:
1. The protesters are "unruly" and "angry." The word "peaceful" doesn't apply.
2. The crowd is "virtually all white."
3/20/15, 10:35 AM
You forgot to add:
3. If even one baby cries, it is an "unruly mob".
4. If they leave the place cleaner than they found it, they "disturbed" the area or "things went missing".
5. If anyone asks a question, they were "confrontational".
Once you start breaking into businesses or building or blocking highways you lost the argument and should be carried away by cops. If you don't go quietly they should subdue you, the same way Eric Garner was subdued. If thst means you die, oh well.
(though in truth, Garner dying was an anomaly. Usually you don't die when cops subdue you they way they did).
But society doesn't need to tolerate criminal behavior.
Garage makes a decent point here. Why are the people kept out of their own buildings? Whats up with the locks in the first place?
how is thst a decent point?
Identity Politics FTW.
Garde mahal wrote:
Right on point. Black kids call the cops, to help, cops show up, they show up, kill an unarmed man. Blacks respond with no violence.
Other than than you nailed it.
Right, they just showed up and killed an unarmed man. For no reason. I suppose he was sitting on a park bench eating a sandwich and the cops just drove up and blasted him.
Then out spake brave Horatius,
The Captain of the Gate:
Come on in barbarians,
Use my pass, don't be late!
[I know, I know, Madison citizens <> barbarains, it's racist to even jokingly make the comparison, I know.]
garage says... "fuck the police". I'm sure the gang bangers left to roam free will make for a much better society.
@garaj: Let's see, police shoot a black man and a black spokesperson named Brandi Grayson responds at a public meeting as follows: “We know the facts, and when they come out, this city will erupt. This city will f-ing erupt. And the blood and whatever takes place after that will be on your hands and the mayor’s hands."
Like I said at 10:47: "Democrats are enablers of the vicious cycle." You make my point.
Don't be troubled by that. Denial and delusion are just part of the deal for you folks on the left.
Madison Police killing children an 'epidemic' according to mother of slain black boy
They're on a spiritual journey. Stay sharp, officers.
How dare he let citizens into their own building!
So, government buildings are open 24/7 routinely?
Can you name where?
Sadly, crime is something people have to consider here.
But, again, don't worry: Robespierre felt he was safely in control of the mob, too.
Bomb threat at U of Wisconsin
This is typical liberal escalation. Probably someone affiliated with Occupy.
Do liberals realize what a dangerous game they're playing demonizing the police 24/7 like this?
I blame the Title 9 standards that effectively cut men's amateur wrestling training as a school sport 25 years ago.
If not for that change, the police officers could just wrestle the insane people to the ground, and not use choke holds which they would also know are against the rules.
But the strong weight lifting wrestler men would then be needed and not petite females. Those lady officers will still have to shoot the maniacs until they stop quivering.
"Bomb threat at U of Wisconsin"
I know. I got warning texts from the UW alert system at around 1 and 3 am.
tradguy - no police officers should be trained to not shoot and let the criminal butcher them. All in the name of #RaceTogether.
If police officers offer themselves up as martyrs, liberals will love them!
Why are such concepts as the presumption of innocence and due process not applicable to police officers?.....America has a history of lunch mobs. The left would like you to believe that blacks were the exclusive targets of such mobs. Hardly. Jews, Italians, Germans and, most recently, police officers have been the targets of such mobs.
William - you might as well be pissing in the wind. The liberals are OUTRAGED and they're not gonna take it anymore! Look at the racial fires they've stoked all across America!
Lunch mobs should read lynch mobs. That was not meant as a clever allusion to the recent beat down in McDonalds.
"Robinson was "your average 19-year-old kid,"
Sorry. The felony conviction for armed robbery average for my two sons when they were 19 wasn't one. It was zero. Same as the average for "how many times they assaulted others and then attacked a cop.
Notice the hero-worship of young thugs by the left. Notice the demonization of soldiers and police.
Just notice and tell me evil doesn't exist in the world.
New York throws cops under the bus
It wouldn’t be long, however, before the impact of two nonblack lives snuffed out with murderous deliberation would come blasting into the continuing carnival of staged “die-ins,” blocked highways and chanting marchers, including the contingent shouting “What do we want? Dead cops.”
Yup, what I thought. Civil War 2.0 has started.
The left made 2 mistakes in the last few years.
#1 - they generalized brutality to all police officers
#2 - they idolized young thugs
The American middle doesn't like this. Sure it gets you the blacks and the urban white hipsters, but that's all.
@jr565, in Cleveland a twelve year old child was playing in a park with a pellet gun. He was, literally, sitting on a bench when police drove up and simply blasted him. The Cleveland police released a video of the event, which doesn't have any sound, but there's no indication that they gave the kid any chance to drop his toy.
So it does happen.
I think that "kill the cops" rhetoric is a step in the direction of having the police do a better job of deescalating high tension situations.
garage mahal: "How dare he let citizens into their own building!"
Says the side that shut down parks, you know, grass and sidewalks and stuff, to WWII veterans to play up the politics of a funding fight.
garage, like all lefties, doesn't believe a single thing he is saying.
Well, one supposes garage does simply because he is the cannon fodder of the left and too dumb to know better.
The rest of the left however is simply playing at Fen's Law, over and over again.
I think Pan is quite fortunate things went peacefully.
I watched the video - looks like at least 50% of them were white - some of the ladies look like they just came from one of those pray/sing songs/hold hands together vigils that white people hold after events like this - in the safety of a church and in this case they moved to the safety of a government building. There were a few guys that I couldn't tell what race - they were wearing hoodies, looking thug. Wonder if Pan would have facilitated a crowd of 100 wearing hoodies, looking thug - would be racist of him if he would not have done the same for them.
Another observation - the bearded large guy seemed to be recording everyone as they walked in - that was a proactive move on his part - I'm sure that made everyone feel accountable for their actions.
One more observation - looks like some guys came up to the door and then turned around - maybe they were informed this facility was not a convenience store?
But hey, those WWII vets were probably just a bunch of bitter clinger-ers who deserved to be kept out of the open air memorials which were erected to honor their sacrifices.
Plus, those veterans didn't have the sense to attack police officers or lob missiles into Israeli population centers.
No wonder they can't garage to support them.
Right on point. Black kids call the cops, to help, cops show up, they show up, kill an unarmed man. Blacks respond with no violence.
Dear God, you are so full of shit. The term "snitches get stitches" ring any bells?
Somewhere there's a Peter Sellers pronouncing the final B in bomb.
AlexThe left made 2 mistakes in the last few years.
#1 - they generalized brutality to all police officers
#2 - they idolized young thugs"
#2 has actually been going on now for a couple of centuries.
Unsurprised that Bitchtits cheers on his daily kos endorsed pan faced buddy letting the mob into the building.
While I am against police brutality, this does not appear to be the case with some nutcase wacked out on mushrooms acting violently and attacking someone with a gun.
A few nightsticks to the head of Fatty McNoCollege, eh, I would be willing to look the other way on.
So this fool Pan was elected as county supervisor while he was still a college student... As The Drill Sgt says upthread, people get the politicians they deserve. I know I would never vote for a goddamm college kid to represent me or supervise anything but a keg party.
Big Mike wrote:
@jr565, in Cleveland a twelve year old child was playing in a park with a pellet gun. He was, literally, sitting on a bench when police drove up and simply blasted him. The Cleveland police released a video of the event, which doesn't have any sound, but there's no indication that they gave the kid any chance to drop his toy.
his gun looked real. It didn't have the red tip on it signifying it was a toy. Why should cops when seek g someone brandish a gun assume it's a fake gun unless it looks fake?
Further, in this day and age kids shoot,up,high schools and are in gsnta. So the idea that a kid couldn't be a shooter is simply not realistic.
The whole reason why they put the red top on the gun in the first place was because kids got killed when playing with the old fake guns. So they forced companies to put red tips on the guns so people knew they were toys. This one was a replica.
I
"I think that "kill the cops" rhetoric is a step in the direction of having the police do a better job of deescalating high tension situations."
You think telling people to kill all cops will DEESCALATE situations?
If it's our house then, when this dies down there better not be an issue if I break into Pans office and shit on his desk. because it's my house. And I can shit on my desk if Iwant.
Our House, then My House. Therefore my desk. Therefore my toilet.
And actually I wouldn't be breaking into my own house. I just have access to the keys. But It is my house, so if I break a window to get in, it's my window to break. if any security guards come to get me out I will stand my ground and defend my property from unlawful searches and seizures. it can't be lawful, becaase it's my house and I have a right to be in my own house.
I'm thinking of turning Pans office into my hump pad. Where I take the ladies and screw. I can do what I want with my house. Right? Don't worry, if he needs to work I'll wait until he's done. But then that place is mine.
Also, I was considering not paying any more rent anyway. But now, that I know I have all this federal property thsts mine I figure I can have a place to sleep in every state. Road trip!
traditionalguy said...
Madison, Wisconsin reenactors of the Defense of Rorke's Drift and promptly surrenders the Hospital Building as their first move.
No Victoria Crosses for them.
3/20/15, 8:58 AM
-----------------------------------
Even worse, they can't sing one note of "Men of Harlech".
Yes, Prime Minister is always relevant!
Why is everybody upset? Pan was merely campaigning for the next election. The group that elected him will think his action wonderful hence more donations! It's just politics for Pan, nothing more.
As for whether this was bad or not:
Security is not a joke. If one of those people REALLY had a gun and wanted to, there'd be a lot of dead people today. Mattering the sort of information lying around, PII or who knows what could have been compromised [I doubt there's any amazing secrets lying around, but you have security for a reason.]
It was dumb, and it sounds like he paid an appropriate price.
I don't think the cop in Cleveland covered himself with glory, but I wouldn't jail him for what he did. The kid was big, and the gun looked real.......How come the mother who let her kid hang around the playground, pointing a realistic looking gun at people doesn't come in for her share of criticism. That wasn't such great police work but that was abysmal parenting.
LarsPorsena said...
traditionalguy said...
Madison, Wisconsin reenactors of the Defense of Rorke's Drift and promptly surrenders the Hospital Building as their first move.
No Victoria Crosses for them.
3/20/15, 8:58 AM
-----------------------------------
Even worse, they can't sing one note of "Men of Harlech".
3/20/15, 12:43 PM
It's that "men" word that hangs the SJWs up all the time.
"Why should cops when seek g someone brandish a gun assume it's a fake gun unless it looks fake?"
Because society has not determined "brandishing a gun" is a capital offense punishable by summary execution?
Sometimes cops have to walk into potentially dangerous situations. Sometimes cops will get hurt, so that someone who's not a cop won't get hurt. That's why we have cops, isn't it?
I think I need to better my commenting skills. I didn't really think Garage made a good point about citizens and locks. I thought it was ridiculous. Sarcasm . . . always dangerous.
And actually I wouldn't be breaking into my own house. I just have access to the keys. But It is my house, so if I break a window to get in, it's my window to break. if any security guards come to get me out I will stand my ground and defend my property from unlawful searches and seizures. it can't be lawful, becaase it's my house and I have a right to be in my own house.
I'm thinking of turning Pans office into my hump pad. Where I take the ladies and screw. I can do what I want with my house. Right? Don't worry, if he needs to work I'll wait until he's done. But then that place is mine.
Also, I was considering not paying any more rent anyway. But now, that I know I have all this federal property thsts mine I figure I can have a place to sleep in every state. Road trip!
Why should you have to wait? And seeing as how it's our house and she's there already...
Because society has not determined "brandishing a gun" is a capital offense punishable by summary execution?
Pointing a gun (or what is reasonably perceived as a gun) at a cop or an innocent bystander is justification to shoot. That is a different thing than a summary execution.
And no, cops are not there to be designated bullet catchers so that the gun is proven to be a deadly weapon.
Surely there must be a law against allowing non-employees to circumvent security in a secured building. Enforce it and use the tape as evidence. Elected officials are welcome in prison, too.
@jr565, watch the video. The officers never gave the child a reasonable chance to put down the gun.
"garage, like all lefties, doesn't believe a single thing he is saying."
I've been here since 2007, and I think he was already commenting from the radical left when I arrived. His comments have been uniformly received no differently back then than now. To take that level of abuse for so many years, he would have to be either
1) one of the most cynical pathological liars on Gaia, someone Alinsky would be proud of, and/or
2) he is very highly paid for disrupting the comments here and couldn't care less that what he's saying is 100% made up by his handlers, and/or
3) he is so easily manipulated his picture should be the definition for "useful idiot" or
4) he really is just a natural-born idiot.
Every conservative/libertarian site has many of these trolls.
I say just him blather on and don't respond. He'll either move on eventually or let us watch as he descends into raging insanity.
RageBoy
What about an open admissions policy at UWM, Mr. Pan? Let everyone in to every class for free. Why standards? Aren't they just a form of door locks?
And what about all the people Brandi Grayson talks about - rotting in Madison jail for minor offenses just like yours. But they were blacks and so the Mayor didn't let their minor offenses slide. Why don't you turn yourself in and refuse to pay the fine and join them in solidarity? I think you should - otherwise you are just an entitled brat.
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