We were in the same elevator together. I wanted to say congratulations, but she turned away. From what I know about the original script, ["Coming Home"] was honest, but I think because of her political stance at the time, she managed to turn it into American guilt. She's the only one who had the power — she was the producer. The end of the movie is the American officer, Bruce Dern, who out of unspeakable guilt walks into the Pacific Ocean to drown himself. That's not what the original script was. That character is so filled with rage that he strides the hillsides of Laurel Canyon onto the 101, as I recall, and he's got a machine gun with him. He walks to the center of the freeway with oncoming traffic in both directions, and he's just howling, just firing in a circle. Cars are blowing up all over the place. That was the real ending. You don't have moviemaking to prove a point about your political conviction in American Sniper.About "American Sniper," he says: "Though it was characterized [as such], Sniper's not a political movie. It's not about the rightness or wrongness of the war. It deals with the impact of trauma on people who go to war and people who stay behind."
२७ फेब्रुवारी, २०१५
"... Coming Home was produced by Jane Fonda, who at that time had made films with Ho Chi Minh and was virulently anti-American. At the Academy Awards, she wouldn't look at me..."
"... because I had already been labeled a right-wing fascist," says the movie director Michael Cimino in a new interview. His "Deer Hunter" was up against "Coming Home" for the awards in 1971.
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She apologized recently for that photograph of her with the tank.
Well, I don't know how far that goes — an awful lot of guys died.
He's right. No apology is enough.
Jane Fonda lost me when I was in the military and the traitorous photo of her sitting on the anti-aircraft gun in Hanoi. She means nothing to me. We were drafted by the government with Kennedy's words echoing in our ears: "Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country." That would make a good movie including footage of American military being called "baby killers" and traitors for not burning their draft cards and going to Canada.
I saw The Deer Hunter the week it was released, in a theater in Washington DC. I do remember the cut from the family gathering in Pennsylvania to the chopper in Vietnam -- it was startling. I'm going to have to look at the movie again.
Haven't seen American Sniper yet.
So is that a gottcha question? Does Jane Fonda love America? And, just because today she says she does, her past, like America, is shameful and there can never be atonement.
The point about American Sniper is spot on. It is not a political movie. It deals with how humans deal with war, not war. Its a rorschach test. It lets you in to the true physci of people like Micheal Moore, and Bill Mahr. !st they see politics, left/right, where there is none. By their actions the exhibit contempt for the United States. Do they hate America? I judge them by their actions. Is Obama a Christian? I judge him by his actions. Criticizing America in long speeches on foriegn soils......for long ago actions. Yeah, I judge him by his actions
iowan2 said...
It deals with how humans deal with war, not war. Its a rorschach test
In combat there are no politics. There is little racism.
Men do not fight for God, mother or the Flag.
Ultimately, when the chips are down, they fight, not to be thought cowards in front of their squadies. It's all about your buddies. That's what makes Deer Hunter so true.
I think you mean they were both up for the Oscar in 1979 (both released in '78).
Deer Hunter was the better movie.
David Hampton said...
Jane Fonda lost me when I was in the military and the traitorous photo of her sitting on the anti-aircraft gun in Hanoi
I want it known that "I" didnt think she was on a tank :)
That's a quote from the Hollywood guy...
After Nam, I was an Armor Officer, and I love that every reporter calls any track with a gun larger than an 50 cal, a "Tank"
Because having the Viet vet walk into the ocean is so much more political than having him play Russian roulette.
PS It is interesting to see the present day politics of Jane's leading man.
Sorry to bring it up, but American Sniper is a two hour display of the Scots-Irish warrior soul in one man that was naturally tuned for war.
Scott Walker was quoting that at CPAC yesterday to be his foreign policy summed up in the warning from the USMC ( and of course from Ronaldus Magnus) that Americans can be your best friend or your worst enemy. Which also described Chris Kyle.
When you hate America, that attitude is probably what you hate. It drives the arrogant, superior. despising all other faiths Muslim mind up the wall. Obama probably stays awake at night hating it and chain smoking.
Clint Eastwood has been explaining it for over 50 years.
I blame James Monroe.
What is less widely known about Fondas trip to N. Vietnam is that she was presented with a chance to meet a "Potemkin Villiage" version of a group of cleaned-up POWs to prove their "good treatment." As she walked down the line shaking hands with each one, one of the POWs who had smuggled in a small piece of paper with details of their torture placed it in her palm as he shook hands, naively thinking she was a loyal American (remember, the POWs news of the outside world was limited) and hoping she would get the word out to the world at large.
Instead Fonda went directly to the Communist jailers and gave them the note. Subsequently after she left the entire group was subjected to "extra special" prolonged torture for their attempt.
As an ex AirForce fighter pilot who flew 100 missions over N. Vietnam and who could well have been shot-down, captured and tortured myself, I can state categorically that there are not enough words in the English language to express the depth of my loathing and contempt for that woman.
You want to know who's really fueling the home-grown terrorists?
Jane Fonda, Barack Obama, government schools, the Democrat Party, & the media.
Their hatred for America is based on a shame of our wealth; a wealth created by freedom & Capitalism.
They can all go to Hell. I'm certain that there's a private room reserved for the Commie traitor bitch.
Virgil,
Next time, let us know how you really feel instead of holding it back...
One liberal who did show mettle was Joan Baez, who held free concerts across America to raise money for the Boat People. Baez, a thinking woman’s pacifist, didn’t hate America; she hated war. Fonda, on the other hand, supported the war being waged by the North Vietnamese and by extension, the communists in China and Moscow, against the United States.
Baez hated war, while Fonda reviled America. It doesn’t get more black and white than that. Baez later took out full page ads in American newspapers denouncing the human rights violations in Vietnam.
In response to Baez’s compassion, Fonda wrote a letter to her denouncing Baez for trying to help the people fleeing communist oppression. “Your actions only align you with the most narrow and negative elements in our country who continue to believe that Communism is worse than death.” This was a long time ago but that doesn’t make it any less true than “Hanoi Jane” participated in propaganda broadcasts aimed at undermining the morale of US military personnel.
Well Jane was open about being a Communist, which saved Joe McCarthy a lot of work.
She should be charged with"Treason". There is no "Statue Of Limitations"as to that most horrid crime.
I wonder if Jane Fonda Urinal Stickers are still in production. They were quite popular in places like American Legion restrooms for many years. Today, there are many candidates for new stickers.
@The Drill Sgt/
Baez was also highly vocal in denouncing the Cambodian massacre/genocide and took out full-page ads about that too. (Which earned her even more invective from the so-called "anti-war" left)
This is a tough issue to process.
Hard to like Fonda, for sure.
But, the Draft (especially for that fucked-up purpose) was an abomination, being a combination of legal kidnapping and slavery -- under threat of prison and a ruined subsequent life.
You who were not men of draft-able age during those days, can't really fully understand.
There are many forms of treason. Enough to cover both the Fonda's and the LBJ's of the world.
How is the Fonda ending more anti-American than the original ending?
How is the Fonda ending more anti-American than the original ending?
Well, in the original ending he uses a gun, which is pretty damn American. <-- this is a joke.
Seems to me the walking-into-the-ocean ending was probably chosen because it was so much cheaper and simpler to film.
Cimino was notorious for spending way too much money achieving his vision in "Heaven's Gate," so it's funny that he doesn't notice that (or acts like he doesn't).
"one of the POWs who had smuggled in a small piece of paper "
I think McCain has said that didn't happen. It sounds like her, though.
"Cimino was notorious for spending way too much money achieving his vision"
There was a book about that movie some years ago that said there was a lot of self dealing and corruption in that film, which may have caused him even more trouble. Buying land and that sort of thing.
The reason "American Sniper" seems like a movie of the political Right is because it is an almost completely neutral movie. On the screen, Chris Kyle seems like a not overly thoughtful but well-raised man of the American rural South. If you've been around this country, he is utterly recognizable.
In contrast, a movie like the (rather well-made) "The Imitation Game" is shot through with fakery in the service of the various political points it was contrived to make.
Telling a story straight seems slanted the other way.
For Hollywood/Dems/the MFM, if you're not on the left you're a right-wing nutjob.
Kyle was clearly vaguely culturally conservative and patriotic. The movie was a gritty look at his life - there's certainly nothing in it to convince one that war is fun, clean or easy.
Then Jane turned around and made millions upon millions with her work out tapes and gyms. Did she give it all away to the poor?
In contrast, a movie like the (rather well-made) "The Imitation Game" is shot through with fakery in the service of the various political points it was contrived to make.
I haven't seen "The Imitation Game" and don't particularly plan to, so maybe it is as trite as you imply.
However, I can't imagine a true story of Turing *not* coming across as contrived and political. The man was a genius and a hero to both his own country and the whole of humanity, and in return his country subjected him to truly vile treatment solely because he was homosexual.
Much like Chris Kyle's story, it would seem impossible to believe if you didn't already know it was true.
Kyle had a natural instinctive need to guard his friends and his friends friends from savage attacks. It was as natural to him as breathing. The more cautious approach counts the cost to himself and abandons people if the cost is too hard. Kyle could never do that. Call him stubborn or dumb, but thank God that he made some people like that.
The more cautious approach counts the cost to himself and abandons people if the cost is too hard. Kyle could never do that
The rest of the military may think the SEALS aren't the brightest bulbs, but absolutely everybody agrees that what has been beaten out of each and every one of them in the cold Coronado surf is the capability to quit.
"I can't" is not in their vocabulary.
@ Revenant
When I watched "The Imitation Game," many elements seemed false to me. I work in a job that involves collaborative mathematical problem solving, and there were an abundance of eye-rolling moments in that arena.
I went online to see what else was historically wrong, and found this piece from the New York Times Review of Books that confirmed my suspicions:
http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2014/dec/19/poor-imitation-alan-turing/
Jane Fonda should be hated. I hate Jane Fonda.
I haven't watched The Imitation Game yet--do they credit the Poles with all the work they'd done cracking Enigma? It seems like their part is all too often forgotten. I read that several of the Polish analysts working on crypto were captured and tortured by the SS but none revealed what they'd discovered nor that they'd passed the info on to British intelligence.
Jane Fonda didn't so much dramatize her neuroses as politicize them. She had a screwed up childhood. Her mother committed suicide. Her father thought it best to withhold that information from her. That information was revealed to her when she read about it in a fan magazine article about her father. She was thus doubly betrayed by both parents. Her father was an American icon. He was Young Abe Lincoln......Some of the hostility she expresses towards Uncle Sam is, in fact, undigested anger towards her father........Jane Fonda's life in some ways mirrors that of Svetlana Stalin. Svetlana's mother also committed suicide. That information was also withheld from her. She learned about it by reading a Time magazine article while studying English. She went on to defect to the west.......Stalin was, of course, the USSR in a way that Henry Fonda was not the USA, but I think the same
dynamics are at work. When the father of your country is your biological father and is also a dirtbag, then your patriotism is at risk.
In her later days Hanoi Jane became a nice person while living in Atlanta with Turner and his gang. She even converted to Christianity to find peace with the Patriarchy.
Converted from what? Henry Fonda was Jewish?
Jews are natural Christians. He's their Messiah.
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