But detectives do not believe Begic’s Bosnian heritage or the color of his skin served as a motive in any way, police spokeswoman Schron Jackson said.It's one thing to say he wasn't attacked because of his Bosnian heritage and quite another to say that he wasn't attacked because of the color of his skin.
२ डिसेंबर, २०१४
"Fatal hammer attack on Bosnian immigrant not racially motivated, St. Louis police say."
"Many at the scene of the murder near Gravois Avenue and Itaska Street speculated that the four men who beat Zemir Begic, 32, to death with hammers targeted him because of his Bosnian descent."
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Fucking liars.
Not buying it.
What if they were screaming "f*ck the whites, kill the whites?"
Nah.
We are living in bizarre land.
You can literally (yes!) not believe anything you hear from the gov't - who can tell what is true and what is not?
I thought I read earlier yesterday that this was the second Bosnian man attacked with hammers. If that is the case, it sounds racial...
I await the President's statement on this crime.
Who cares what the motivation was, a crime was committed and the attackers were caught and will go to jail. Attack with a hammer seems to tilt the scale to 1st degree murder. They could have dropped those hammers at any time.
I don't like to amplify penalties on crimes because of the criminal's thought or speech or emotions.
Tank said...
What if they were screaming "f*ck the whites, kill the whites?"
I guess that proves the point. Nobody heard them screaming "fuck the Bosnians, Kill the Bosnians!"
Did they come up with a motive at all? There has to be a motive -- it wasn't just a random act of violence. The police took great pains to clarify the motive in the Michael Brown killing.
From the article: Chief Sam Dotson noted that none of the suspects appear to have anything in their criminal backgrounds to suggest they would do something of this magnitude.
The attackers are 15, 16, and 17. Think of the ramifications of the chief's comment and the way he has to look at the world.
Tank said...
What if they were screaming "f*ck the whites, kill the whites?"
They were:
“And, of course, it’s a white kid, right after black people running up and down the street yelling, ‘Eff the white people, kill the white people.’ This is what we have.”
In their vocabulary, it is not possible to have racial animus towards a white person on account of their "whiteness" -- it's a noncolor, a nonrace. Hence, the only possible "racial motivation" is for the men to have attacked him on account of his immigrant-ness, or his swarthy, Southeastern European-ness.
Which is, of course, lunacy.
"“We think it was wrong place, wrong time,” [police spokeswoman] Jackson said. After declining to say what authorities believe is the motive in the killing.
So, just what is "wrong place, wrong time" supposed to mean in this context? That there are certain places that certain people shouldn't be at certain times? Perhaps the police spokeswoman could tell the public which people shouldn't be where, and why?
It's one thing to say he wasn't attacked because of his Bosnian heritage and quite another to say that he wasn't attacked because of the color of his skin.
Nobody attacks white people because of skin color, they attack white people because white people are bad.
Some Crack's bastard children, or just the product of his idealogy?
Show me an AA in Ferguson who knows where Bosmia is, and I'll give you a hunskie ... Nigerians, Jamaicans, etc don't count.
Most urban AAs could not even recognize and name a dozen US states on an outline map. Foreign countries? I don't think so. Obscure foreign countries? Not a chance.
Until America recognizes and addresses the extreme social dysfunction of some 75-plus percent of its younger urban male AA population we are not going to get anywhere.
But of course it wasn't a "racially-motivated" attack. Those can only occur against people of color.
Peter: So, just what is "wrong place, wrong time" supposed to mean in this context?
"Wrong place, wrong time" is used for those times when "it was a [insert crime here] gone wrong" is too crazy-sounding even for flacks who manage to construe multiple torture-murders carried out over days as "car jackings gone wrong". Hammering passers-by to death doesn't give 'em much to work with for the job of mitigating the deed, so "wrong place, wrong time" is the best they can do.
So the attackers were black and he was white but no racism there!
But one white cop shoots a black that had demonstratively robbed others, attacked him, beat him up, and charged him and that was RACISM!
Thank God I live in Texas were quite a few people pack heat.
This very well could have been a racaially motivated attack--and absent evidence of a more likely motive (say, if they stole his wallet or car) then that's probably what this was.
I'm all for punishing these thugs (after trial, etc.) to the fullest extent of the law, as the sort of people who could do this are animals and don't belong in a free society. But there should be no "extra penalty" for "hate crimes" as it doesn't matter whether they did this out of simple nihilism, a desire for money, or hatred of the man's race.
As for "wrong place wrong time" this sounds a lot like the sort of statement that gets one in trouble when they talk about rape victims. Are we now creating a "mugging culture" as bad as our "rape culture"? Are we accepting that free citizens should have to avoid certain public areas because they belong to the lawless?
"Thank God I live in Texas were quite a few people pack heat."
Too bad the victim didn't have one of those flamethrower attachments to his car like they have in South Africa to deal with carjackers. A little carjacker flambe may go a lot of the way towards encouraging thug children to find a new way to pass the time.
Peter said...
So, just what is "wrong place, wrong time" supposed to mean in this context? That there are certain places that certain people shouldn't be at certain times? Perhaps the police spokeswoman could tell the public which people shouldn't be where, and why?
Wasn't there an app for that based on Google Maps? Wasn't it deemed "racist"?
It's one thing to say he wasn't attacked because of his Bosnian heritage and quite another to say that he wasn't attacked because of the color of his skin.
You're parsing that statement as if it's meant to convey information. It has no purpose beyond attempting to crowd out clarity with confusion.
But detectives do not believe Begic’s Bosnian heritage or the color of his skin served as a motive in any way, police spokeswoman Schron Jackson said.
In all the media accounts, the reporters are as scrupulous as Ms. Jackson is at omitting all references to the races of the hammer operators.
No film at eleven.
There shouldnt be special penalties due to motives, but if the motive is what it is alleged to be then third parties are likely to be responsible for motivating the crime. IIRC a branch of the KKK was once successfully sued for a racist murder they rather vaguely instigated.
Has a black beating or killing of a white ever been listed as a hate crime?
Ever?
BTW, the Bosnians in the case seem to be Muslims going by their names.
Anti Muslim attack ? I doubt it but its something to check out too.
Has a black beating or killing of a white ever been listed as a hate crime?
Ever?
There are people who comment here who believe that it's physically impossible. Because of numbers or something was their argument. A minority can never be racist by definition because of numbers. I thought it was addled brained then and I still do.
Of course not. No such thing as minority-on-white hate crimes.
Now the "hands-up don't shoot" lie is being perpetrated on the floor of the House of Representatives.
Why is the left perpetrating this lie? Why is the left fomenting hatred of the police? Why is the left trying to start a race war?
Wrong place...wrong time" Bevo Mill in s.STL is a Slavic neighborhood. Lots of Bosnian/ Croat businesses.
Waiting for the Bosnian community to erupt and torch their own neighborhood s.
In Chicago--in the early 1990s I think--we did have a case in Chicago where a black man attacked a family walking to their parked car after a White Sox game. He used the heavy leg from a dining room table and literally brained the father and son, and did substantial damage to the mother and daughter. He was shouting obscenities about white people when he did it, yet police assured us there was no racial component. We are not as sophisticated as the police as to making those sorts of calls.
"We think it was wrong place, wrong time..."
Wed zoning? Ooooh those wacist powice.
- Elmer Fudd
It's one thing to say he wasn't attacked because of his Bosnian heritage and quite another to say that he wasn't attacked because of the color of his skin.
Obviously a Serb irregular looking for payback for Kosovo Polye.
Shouting kill whitey would not be evidence of race based hate crime. After all, Fort Hood was only workplace violence.
The police forgot to mention that the attack was also not connected to terrorism as well.
This kind of logic would have us believe that this was a group of feral animals that would have attacked any one, black or white, male or female, who was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
"Perhaps the police spokeswoman could tell the public which people shouldn't be where, and why?"
Why yes and John Derbyshire got fired for explaining it.
Waiting for the Bosnian community to erupt and torch their own neighborhood s.
The difference between the Bosnians and African Americans is that if the Bosnians do burn down a neighborhood in protest, it will be an African American neighborhood and not their own.
Police won't say what the motive is. St. Louis is a violent city.
Why is the left perpetrating this lie? Why is the left fomenting hatred of the police? Why is the left trying to start a race war?
Why burn down the Reichstag?
This is really not going to end well. They made their choice of victim from what is probably the one immigrant group that has the longest history of vicious blood feuds and vendettas imaginable.
If I had to guess, the immediate future is going to demonstrate what happens when the modern subculture of Dindu Nuffin encounters the ancient rule of Balkan blood debt. Smartest thing the perpetrators families could do would be to kill the little thugs themselves, hand over the bodies, apologize profoundly for their foolish conduct, and then pray that was enough to satisfy the extended family of Mr. Begic.
Since that ain't likely to happen, my guess is that there is about to be a rash of missing persons whose bodies are going to be dumped back in their home communities demonstrating some rather gruesome extended knife work, and that the majority of the missing are going to come from the subset of St. Louis residents who are members of the perpetrator's immediate families and friends.
Smart people do everything they can to avoid engaging the Balkan reflex for bloody revenge. The people responsible for this not being very smart... Well, it will be interesting to observe.
From a great distance.
Why burn down the Reichstag?
My theory is that the gentry pajama-boy leftists, not wanting to break a manicured nail, are using blacks as their proletariat-pawns in their socialist revolution.
And seeing that Obama is regularly meeting with the race riot organizers tells me this race war is being organized at the top.
As for "wrong place wrong time" this sounds a lot like the sort of statement that gets one in trouble when they talk about rape victims. Are we now creating a "mugging culture" as bad as our "rape culture"? Are we accepting that free citizens should have to avoid certain public areas because they belong to the lawless?
Perhaps the police should publish maps of where they enforce the laws against muggings.
It's one thing to say he wasn't attacked because of his Bosnian heritage and quite another to say that he wasn't attacked because of the color of his skin.
You broke the code, Professor.
Why would you even ask the police if it was because of his heritage?
Because you're not interested in the telling the news. You're only interested in creating stories and memes to sell to the American people. And as a Democrat, you're job is to protect the narrative.
I don't think people really understand the implications of stating this was NOT a racial attack (="hate crime").
The alternative is that urban AA males are quite simply vicious, uncontrollable animals attacking at random all they encounter. Given the rate of black-on-black crime, there might be something to that view.
I'm a farmer. I know what you do with vicious, uncontrollable animals, even my own. Black dog, brown cow, white horse, feral cat, rabid coyote ... it does not matter.
Smart people do everything they can to avoid engaging the Balkan reflex for bloody revenge. The people responsible for this not being very smart...
^^That^^. I'm just surprised the Bosnian wasn't packing some heat.
About 30 years ago, South St. Louis was still relatively safe. You had to keep your head on a swivel but the crime was a lot lower.
Since then there has been a large influx of Bosnian, and Mexican immigrants and the blacks started moving south, from north city (St. Louis being divided in two - north, mostly black and high crime - south, mostly white and low crime until recent years) and with it, crime has soared.
The Bosnian blood revenge is well known and their crimes can be pretty grisly (per a St. Louis police friend), but even they are moving out of south city due to the high crime.
Another democrat run utopia.
So fast in declaring it not racially motivated. How would they know? Can you imagine if it were 3 whites who hammered some black, to death? The 24/7 non-stop coverage, leading with the race of the perps and the race of the victim, with a shout out from the Race Hustler in Chief?
Instead this case will be mentioned in passing and dismissed quickly. Unlike the media led incitement after the Brown shooting. Day after day being reminded that the militarized white cop, out for bloodlust, shot a brown baby minding his own business, in the back with his arms up.
Ignoring the fact that blacks kill more whites than the other way around. And reporting like the opposite is going on.
So people getting brutally murdered with hammers is NORMAL in STL? Remind me to stay the hell out of STL....
What are they doing carrying hammers? Are they free lance carpenters shapeing up for a late night job?.......Blacks hate whites for different reasons and in a different way than whites hate blacks, but it is still hatred. They should have taken his wallet. Then the crime would have been classified as a robbery.
A white person who gets into a physical confrontation with a black has to affirmatively prove that he's not a racist. That burden does not exist for a black. Zimmerman may have followed Martin because he looked like a suspicious black but Martin may have attacked Zimmerman because he looked like a soft white man. Only the presuppositions and prejudices of one party were examined.
Brown attacked the shopkeeper. His stepfather screamed "Burn this bitch down" outside the store. In the face of these overt and hateful acts shouldn't the federal civil rights people be investigating the Brown family for systemic violation of the civil rights of Asian storekeepers.
William said...
Brown attacked the shopkeeper. His stepfather screamed "Burn this bitch down" outside the store. In the face of these overt and hateful acts shouldn't the federal civil rights people be investigating the Brown family for systemic violation of the civil rights of Asian storekeepers.
12/2/14, 11:20 AM
Hahahahahahaaaaaa... Man that was a good one!
So fast in declaring it not racially motivated. How would they know?
This what I don't like most about this statement. The police seem awfully quick to jump out and claim, absent all evidence to the contrary, that there is no racial motive in these types of cases. I'd respect them more if they would just give a generic 'the investigation is in process' statement.
Black youths violently murder a man because he's white? Unpossible! Not to worry, Eric Holder'll investigate any minute now.
Chief Sam Dotson noted that none of the suspects appear to have anything in their criminal backgrounds to suggest they would do something of this magnitude.
They all have Criminal Backgrounds. Already. And not yet adults.
Where is CAIR to protest this blatant anti-Muslim attack fomented by the climate of fear and endemic anti-Muslim discrimination in America?
When hammers attack!
In this era of perceived motivations, "dog whistles" etc., the conspicuous lack of details in coverage and context manipulating/ignoring language by the authorities is truly disturbing.
But despite the now common media practice of withholding racial details when not conforming to a specific narrative, when at least some details are forthcoming, I notice folks in this forum focusing specifically on the African American component of this scenario while not mentioning at least one (white?) Hispanic and seemingly one other participant's race still to be identified.
But I for one am so relieved, because we were all concerned about that recently spiked friction in that region between irrelevant nationalities and "Bosnians"....Croats and Serbs..in same boat..somehow..just somehow..
I like this article better: "Man dies after being struck by hammers."
Gotta love the media avoidance of reality here. Was it some sort of workplace accident? A box of hammers fell on him at Home Depot? Must have been something like that.
Definitely it wasn't a racially motivated murder. It was definitely an un-racially motivated murder that happened to happen coincidentally with a lot of other people in the same area definitely not being videoed screaming kill white people.
He survived Bosnia. Only to be murdered in America.
Contrary to the social complex's classifications, Europeans are not merely "white". They are ethnically diverse with a complex history. Bosnians are a minority in America. I'm surprised that Obama and Holder, and civil rights businesses, have not intervened in this gruesome interracial murder. Consistency is not their strong-suit.
Prejudice is progressive, thanks to the social complex misrepresenting and actually normalizing its causes.
Oh come ON.
This what I don't like most about this statement. The police seem awfully quick to jump out and claim, absent all evidence to the contrary, that there is no racial motive in these types of cases.
It's not the guys on the front lines saying that. It's coming from the top.
Btw, according to my police friend, those thugs who beat the man to death with a hammer, were running around yelling, 'Kill Whitey'.
And the political brass say that isn't racially motivated.
From what I hear, the Bosnians will not let this go unanswered. takirks, in his comment above, is correct in his assessment.
Hmm...was their hell to pay for this?
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/man-charged-in-murder-of-pizza-deliveryman-in-hillsdale/article_865d5d60-a350-11e1-8c22-001a4bcf6878.html
But back to the current situation..
lest hasty policies move forward, remember:
If hammers are outlawed.....
We can all breathe easy knowing that the man beaten to death by a pack of hammer-wielding black thugs was not targeted for his Bosnian heritage.
Four U.S. cities made Business Insider's list of the "50 Most Violent Cities in the World." St. Louis came in at number 45.
The other three cities, in order of increasing violence were, not too surprisingly,
36. Baltimore
26. New Orleans
24. Detroit
I'm all for punishing these thugs (after trial, etc.) to the fullest extent of the law, as the sort of people who could do this are animals and don't belong in a free society.
Hey now. Most animals wouldn't even do something like that.
I blame Peter, Paul and Mary.
takirks:
And justifiably so. The Slavic people are some of the most oppressed people in the world, in history. They were at the center and victims of all the great civilization clashes. But, the social complex classifies them as "white" and would like to sweep them under the rug, as was the custom throughout history. Slaves and fodder, no more.
so what do the detectives think the motive was?
Why are these "men," and not "teenagers"?
Hell, "slave" derives from "Slav."
The murder itself is a tragedy. Made even worse because, as someone noted he survived Bosnia to be murdered here.
On the other hand, it is not all that unusual a story except for the hammers.
I am curious about this. The accounts I read are not clear but I have the idea that more than one, perhaps all of them, had hammers.
What's up with that? Did this take place at a Home Depot? Were the kid's carpenters? Why hammers?
Also, what kind of hammers? Typical claw? Ball peen? some other style?
A hammer might make a good weapon to carry around. Someone carrying a stick or a knife is suspicious. A hammer? "Gee officer, I was just on my way to my grandma's to fix a table leg."
When I was in the Navy in the 60's I heard stories that sailors in San Diego would carry tennis rackets when on liberty. No intention of playing tennis but they were an excellent defensive weapon and they would never be questioned for carrying them.
Are hammers the new tennis racket?
John Henry
William asked:
shouldn't the federal civil rights people be investigating the Brown family for systemic violation of the civil rights of Asian storekeepers.
Not the feds but the MO police are looking into whether they can:
FERGUSON, Mo. (CBS St. Louis/AP) – Ferguson Police Chief Tom Jackson indicated that they are “pursuing” an investigation into whether comments made by Michael Brown’s stepfather the night Ferguson officer Darren Wilson was not indicted by a grand jury incited a riot.
Following the announcement of the grand jury’s decision Nov. 24, Louis Head was caught on camera yelling, “Burn this motherf***** down! Burn this bitch down!” Violent protests broke out following the decision, as dozens of buildings and businesses were looted and set fire.
http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2014/12/02/police-chief-pursuing-investigation-into-whether-stepfathers-lets-burn-this-b-down-comments-incited-riot/
John Henry
I got questioned for carrying a 3 wood through a bad neighborhood once. But they let my friend with the 1-iron go free without a problem.
I asked the cop "What's up with that? How come you stopped me but not him?"
The cop said "Son, I'm no dummy. NOBODY can hit with a 1-iron."
Were the races of the victim and the perpetrators reversed, there would be no puzzling over motive or evidence of racist motives. It would be racism straight up, no proof or evidence required
Most Bosnians are Muslim. Islamophobia?
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