"It’s a difficult time for him. But it ain’t the end of the world. If Hillary can run for president — she went through all that rigmarole. People forget easily."
Said Aku Kadogo, the Spelman College Cosby Endowed Professor in the Arts, quoted in the long, fascinating WaPo article "Bill Cosby’s legacy, recast: Accusers speak in detail about sexual-assault allegations."
Here's Aku Kadogo's page at the Spelman College, replete with a picture of her with Cosby.
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So there might be some "shades of grey" about the question: "Bill Cosby: good or evil?"
What's she going to say? The endowment pays her salary.
Is Spellman College where they went to school on A Different World? I don't think I realized before that it was a real school.
Oh wait, now I see that it was hillman, not spellman.
"People easily forget."
Not black people - or don't the constant references to history not clue everybody into that fact?
Cosby will be remembered for his betrayal of us, and not much else,...
Crack
Cosby didn't betray blacks. He couldn't help what he did. 400 years of slavery left him with no control over his actions.
It's all the faults of whites.
Spellman is the all women's college at Atlanta Univerity Center. Morehouse is the men's college where MLK and Herman Cain went.
Whatever they are teaching young black women at Spellman, they all graduate as confident and a belief they are entitled royalty in their own eyes and are deferred to by Atlanta's black community who accept that estimation of the status of a Spellman Woman.
Turns out it was Cosby who needed to pull up his pants and not the black teens he lectured.
I'd like to see Cosby put into context. What were other entertainment industry men doing back then (and now)? Cosby was in league with Hugh Hefner. I want to know about what powerful men did to young, beautiful women. We didn't hear the stories at the time because before the late 1980s, there wasn't a recognition that there was such a thing as date rape. These women seemed to have wanted access to power and to have gone places alone with the men. This used to be brushed off as "he said/she said."
"It’s a difficult time for him. But it ain’t the end of the world. If Hillary can run for president — she went through all that rigmarole. People forget easily."
People forget what they're allowed to forget. Sexual assault and attempted rape accusations against Pres. Clinton are down the memory hole. A racist place name on a rock on a ranch a Republican Pres. nominee hopeful's family leased, or the method of transport for a family dog on a vacation one distant summer past--those things won't be forgotten, your Media will not allow it.
Many of these allegations against Mr. Cosby weren't hidden before now, but they were unknown to the public (or if you prefer, "forgotten"). The interesting dynamic at play can be understood by asking "why now," and the answer to that, I think, will show you whether or not people will be allowed to forget.
It seems that Cosby truly was a serial rapist who got away with it for years. So did Jimmy Saville. Unlike Saville, Cosby was a man of genuine merit and talent. Perhaps in the long run-- and by that I mean another two or three generations--some balance will be restored to his reputation. Charley Chaplain was no angel, and his reputation has been refurbished......It does seem that the entertainment industry does offer its moguls and talents more opportunities than, say, the steel industry. And lots of these moguls and talents besides Cosby got away with it.
garage mahal said...
Turns out it was Cosby who needed to pull up his pants and not the black teens he lectured.
Can't be both, huh? If the messenger is flawed (inherently or by being on the wrong side politically) the message must be false, is that it? Ideology trumps all for garage mahal.
I'm not the first to say it, but Bill Clinton certainly got a pass when women started coming out of the woodwork complaining of rape and harassment. The Cosby lookout at NBC sounds remarkably like the Arkansas Troopers who facilitated Clinton's exploits.
Ann's question is particularly relevant. What did powerful men get away with in that era? It would seem a lot.
Drugging young women is a traditional way for old men with power but no social skills besides their large checkbook to enjoy conquests.
Joe Kennedy and his sons will never be out done in the world of horny men with money and power.
Ann Althouse said...
I'd like to see Cosby put into context. What were other entertainment industry men doing back then (and now)?
That's fair, but do you expect to see it? I can guess that if I put that question up in a comment section on, say, Slate, I'd be quickly dismissed as a rape apologist insinuating that it wasn't a big deal or that the women were asking for it. Asking for context is dangerous when the default discussion parameters allow only absolutes (or only absolutes in one direction).
Some nuance.
These women probably thought that they were going to have an amazing sexual experience just like the amazing musical or comedy performance of these stars. And instead they were treated like knotholes or coyotes.
That's why they say they were raped even though they volunteered to go to the star's bedroom late at night, have a drink and be alone with him etc. all of which more than suggests consent. But not consent to be a nothing. They thought they would be dancing in the dark with a star.
Just a thought I have sometimes.
I'm beginning to wonder if the media firestorm at Cosby is just resentment from people who didn't appreciate him holding certain people accountable.
Cosby will be remembered for his betrayal of us, and not much else,...
That's crap. First of all, these are allegations, are they not? He's not been convicted of a single thing.
Second, long before the show ever aired, I was raised on Cosby's LP's and Fat Albert cartoons. Those two things, along with the pain he obviously felt at the death of his son, are what I'll remember, no matter what happens.
have a drink
Not just a drink, but take unlabeled pills casually while in someone's hotel room (or whatever). I mean, seriously? You cannot convince me that a normal 19 year old, in showbiz, in the 70's, didn't know to be suspicious of that.
Not that it make Cosby a good guy, because it's becoming increasingly clear that he probably wasn't, at least on this subject. But come on, ladies. I find it very hard to believe you didn't have any suspicions about what was going on.
The one that really jumped out at me is the lady who was a playboy bunny and says cosby grabbed her and kissed her. She pushed him away, went and found her boyfriend and got the hell out of dodge. And I think she even said, it's because she didn't want anything from him.
garage mahal said...
Turns out it was Cosby who needed to pull up his pants and not the black teens he lectured.
LOL
Uneducated lily-white guy from lily-white land thinks the teenage "blacky's" are doing just fine, thank you.
So what I'm curious about - what role did those huge payments he made to those women had to do with their silence? I mean - is there a magic number he hit upon to keep them quiet? Or am I about to get bombed for even suggesting that money could buy their silence? And when did the payments stop?
When the messenger becomes flawed, do we repudiate the message? Do we repudiate the good works of the messenger?
The history is mixed, and not just in the entertainment industry. From Fatty Arbuckle to Roman Polanski to Michael Jackson and now Cosby. If Cosby had had anal sex with a drunken (ergo, drugged) 13 year old, would Hollywood be OK with it?
Do we abandon Livestrong once we learn Armstrong was a cheater?
Must we prosecute and persecute Cosby in the press because he will never be convicted of any of these charges? Must we consider him guilty for the same reason?
Nobody has their finger on the pulse of African American teens quite like an old white conservative like Drago. He be buggin aight.
Garage
So you agree that black teens are doing great and don't need Uncle Toms like Cosby butting in? To what do you attribute their success in school and business? Are the pants-down helping or hurting.
Await your insight.
Read and interesting account of Whoopi and Rosie fighting about whether they should be talking about Cosby at all. I'll wager that Cosby gets the OJ treatment by African Americans. It'll be the white feminists that will want him pilloried.
garage mahal: "Nobody has their finger on the pulse of African American teens quite like an old white conservative like Drago. He be buggin aight."
Wow.
After the "blacky's" incident, garage is now feigning african-american street vernacular (or what at least what garage believes is african-american street vernacular from the tv shows he watches).
One can only imagine how vehement the accusations of racism against garage would be from madisonefella, ARM etc if garage was on the right politically.
And again, who even uses the word "blacky's"?
Is this term common amongst upper midwest all-white-community-dwelling and low-education folks?
So you agree that black teens are doing great and don't need Uncle Toms like Cosby butting in?
The irony is Cosby insisted that young black males exhibit willpower, yet he drugged women to crush them of their will. At minimum Cosby is a bad messenger.
lgv: "If Cosby had had anal sex with a drunken (ergo, drugged) 13 year old, would Hollywood be OK with it."
What if Cosby took an underage page to Europe and had sex with him there?
Would Cosby get a standing ovation from all the dems?
Garage:
I know that lefties think the greatest feat of the mind is to catch another in "hypocrisy." But it isn't. It is commonplace for humans to behave in a way that is different from what they say, or even think, is right.
So Cosby might be a bad messenger, but the question is whether or not his message was a good one. I doubt you are up to answer that.
Aku Kadogo is extremely accomplished and has done many amazing things. Never heard of her before today. I think it's real nice to have her coming back to America after living in Australia since 1978.
Her African American Australian daughter has a Caucasian father.
Typically, most successful African American men and women will marry a Caucasian , or have sex with them. Similar to the elderly rich white man taking on a younger "trophy wife", or having an expensive mistress or prostitute on the side.
Bill Cosby did not have enough personal charisma or sexual prowess to entice his alleged victims so he resorted to drugs an intimidation or promises of influential help. The women who enjoyed consensual sex with him are unfortunately not coming forward to defend him.
Cosby was in league with Hugh Hefner.
"In league"!? That's a bit purple, don't you think?
Of course Cosby did play the devil in The Devil and Max Devlin.
Althouse said...
"I want to know about what powerful men did to young, beautiful women."
Well, there's an app for that.
So Cosby might be a bad messenger, but the question is whether or not his message was a good one.
Some of it, sure. Many black leaders have offered the same advice.
Michael,
"So Cosby might be a bad messenger, but the question is whether or not his message was a good one. I doubt you are up to answer that."
But blacks are - check it out:
"In 2001, a researcher sent out black and white job applicants in Milwaukee, randomly assigning them a criminal record. The researcher concluded that a white man with a criminal record had about the same chance of getting a job as a black man without one. Three years later, researchers produced the same results in New York under more-rigorous conditions."
- Ta-Nehisi Coates
"Pull up your pants" will NOT fix that.
Do I have to go down the whole silly list of Cosby ideas before you get the point?
Blacks rejected Cosby's later ideas for the same reason they abandoned Booker T. Washington's:
THEY DON"T WORK.
White people may think they sound great, but they always leave out one little problem, in assessing The Cosby Way's effectiveness:
White people - who even Cosby charges with being racist - aren't expected to change their behavior at all,...
Shut up crack.
You're interrupting garages take on to whom "blacky" "yutes" should or shouldn't be listening.
Crack:
Whatever Coates says.
Keep telling yourself that showing the crack in your ass is a good business decision. And good for black kids. Go right ahead. Tell them they won't get a job no matter what because of slavery. And to keep the dress code they like. Go right ahead.
Putting on a Savile Row suit also won't help a kid get a job if he can't make a subject or verb agree or can't do simple math or show up on time. These very simple rules hold true for every race.
If you believe what you write then you and your race are fucked. Permanently fucked.
Ann has a point though. Context. It was the time of sex and drugs and rock and roll. Everybody was doing it and I still don't see what the big deal is. Hello, 70s anyone? Some of these women went back for more by their own accounts.
As far as paying them off, I am more inclined to think he did not want his wife to know of his extracurricular activities rather than trying to hide rape-rape, or microagression, or macro, or whatever.
It seems that Cosby truly was a serial rapist who got away with it for years.
He might be.
I have not seen much in the way of EVIDENCE to bolster these claims...just lots of claims from years ago with little evidence of them pursuing these charges with police or what have you.
And can we change Crack's name to TNC? He is just riding his nuts at this point.
damikesc: "And can we change Crack's name to TNC? He is just riding his nuts at this point."
Technically speaking, how do we know "The Crack Emcee" is not actually a "nom de moron" for TNC posting here?
Moose: "I'll wager that Cosby gets the OJ treatment by African Americans. It'll be the white feminists that will want him pilloried."
White women over black men any day. Except conservative white women; then they were asking for it.
Crack: "Cosby will be remembered for his betrayal of us, and not much else,..."
His Jewish accountants beg to differ.
Spelman, by the way, is an elite college for black women. Cosby gave them $20,000,000.
Think about that
I think that our hostess, as usual, is pretty much on target. Not to make excuses for the man, but he was young, successful, powerful and attractive to women. What is puzzling to me is why he needed to drug the women (assuming for the moment that any of it is true).
If Wilt Chamberlain can have had sex with 20,000 women, Cosby surely could have had some percentage of that and still have had his share and a little of the action of the next 20 guys. Not to mention the scores of a nobody like Winston Bennett. Certainly, Mick Jagger has had so many women that the friction alone should have whittled the thing down to a nub by now.
Everyone knows that you can get just about any girl you want if you can make her laugh. He was at the top of his game. I can see it now:
Cos: What is 12 inches long and white
Pretty young adoring white girl: Hmmmm....I dunno, what?
Cos: Nothing! Take a look at this...
ba-boom!! I'm here all week, folks, two shows a night.
It was only later, as an older man, that Cosby was Dr. Huxtable, father figure. That juxtaposition of his later image with his alleged conduct 30 years earlier while hangin' with the Hef is causing the disconnect. Not to mention that he spoke truth to the brothers.
- Krumhorn
Hefner and Cosby were into hunting and fishing for young stuff as a sport.
With Cosby's schedule he like to use drugs to dynamite the lake and bait the field.
All's fair in love and war, and hunting prey, said JFK I presume.
Cosby gave $20,000,000 to an all gals institution?
Investment in the development of future "talent"?
Drago:
Maybe. But I would guess the $20 million is twenty million more than TNC has donated to any black institution.
I don't know about you but I am going direct to TNC and skipping these Crack Emcee cut and paste jobs.
Really glad I wasnt alive for Hefner Prime Time right about now. Drugging women was normal rules of play, huh? Yeech.
Krumhorn said...
"Not to make excuses for the man, but he was young, successful, powerful and attractive to women. What is puzzling to me is why he needed to drug the women (assuming for the moment that any of it is true)."
It's fairly clear that he reserved the drugs for the women who did not find him attractive.
Bill Cosby and Bill Clinton: compare and contrast...
"That's fair, but do you expect to see it? I can guess that if I put that question up in a comment section on, say, Slate, I'd be quickly dismissed as a rape apologist insinuating that it wasn't a big deal or that the women were asking for it. Asking for context is dangerous when the default discussion parameters allow only absolutes (or only absolutes in one direction)."
You are misunderstanding my perspective. I am assuming there are 100 famous men who are scared to death that something like this will wreck them too.
Crack: "In 2001, a researcher sent out black and white job applicants in Milwaukee, randomly assigning them a criminal record. The researcher concluded that a white man with a criminal record had about the same chance of getting a job as a black man without one. Three years later, researchers produced the same results in New York under more-rigorous conditions."
- Ta-Nehisi Coates
Love it when Crack starts quoting Coates with his anonymous 'researcher' and 'researchers' and the results of mysterious uncited 'studies'...
You'd think if Coates put so much stock in these 'studies' and the researchers were so clear-cut authoritative/reputable sources he would have named names. As it is, sounds like Coates just expects his worshipful followers to uncritically read his every word as gospel.
Althouse
"I am assuming there are 100 famous men who are scared to death that something like this will wreck them too."
i think we will see a rise in accusations of sexual misconduct by the famous. Lots of women watching the reverential attention Cosby's accusers are receiving. Lots of unhappy women wanting attention. Fine tuning their memories.
Ann Althouse said...I am assuming there are 100 famous men who are scared to death that something like this will wreck them too.
Yes ma'am, I'm sure there are more than 100, but that takes me back to my original question--assuming what Cosby is alleged to have done was not extremely rare, you'd think some of those 100s would have been brought forward into the harsh Media glare by now. But accusations and allegations wreck some people and not others. Cosby's wrecked, Bill Clinton's still a star. Herman Cain's wrecked, Jeffrey Toobin's not. Dov Charney's wrecked, David Letterman's not. Gary Hart was wrecked with a quickness, John Edwards was wrecked only after a while. Obviously these are all different cases, but anyone who has a checkered past and might get on the Media's bad side is probably more nervous than they were a few years (or months) ago. My perspective, though, is that as long as the Media is on your side, you can probably sleep easy (so to speak).
Hillary aided that rigamarole and abetted that rigamarole and covered up for that rigamarole and defamed others over that rigamarole during all that rigamarole, to keep herself and her husband in power.
Her lust to power is insatiable.
Hillary should be shunned by anyone who abhors her monomaniacal lust for power, to the exclusion of all ethics, decency, morality and logic.
Race will always trump gender.
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