"'The boys kept telling us, "It’s nothing unusual. It happens all the time,"' Lowe recalls. Every time someone they were interviewing mentioned another kid who might have naked pictures on his or her phone, they had to call that kid in for an interview. After just a couple of days, the deputies had filled multiple evidence bins with phones, and they couldn’t see an end to it. Fears of a cabal got replaced by a more mundane concern: what to do with 'hundreds of damned phones. I told the deputies, "We got to draw the line somewhere or we’re going to end up talking to every teenager in the damned county!"'... Most of the girls... had sent a picture to their boyfriend, or to someone they wanted to be their boyfriend, and then he had sent it on to others. For the most part, they were embarrassed but not devastated, Lowe said. They felt betrayed, but few seemed all that surprised that their photos had been passed around. What seemed to mortify them most was having to talk about what they’d done with a 'police officer outside their age group.'... A handful of senior girls became indignant during the course of the interview. 'This is my life and my body and I can do whatever I want with it,' or, 'I don’t see any problem with it. I’m proud of my body'.... In the first couple of weeks of the investigation, Lowe’s characterization of the girls on Instagram morphed from 'victims' to 'I guess I’ll call them victims' to 'they just fell into this category where they victimized themselves.'"
From Hanna Rosin's "Why Kids Sext."
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They victimized themselves? Idiots. Tinpot fascists. Tax sucking parasites. Leave the kids alone, if there are no crimes to solve then show respect for your community by getting into another line of work.
10 years from now, all of these kids will be able to testify that they felt far more damaged by the actions of the cops than the actions of their peers.
Choice is a funny thing.
We are all nudists now.
When I was 17 I knew everything about everything.
Move along. Nothing to see here. Inculcation at work.
huh. similar thing is being investigated right now, 20 miles from here.
Hana knows the reason these children sext. She and her ilk won the Sexual and Feminist Revolution, that's why! Girl Power for Ever! “This is my life and my body and I can do whatever I want with it,” or, “I don’t see any problem with it. I’m proud of my body,” Lowe remembers them saying.
Now that "It's Over", who knows what the LGBT Revolution victory will bring.
Next up, the Pedophile Revolution.
"Leave the kids alone, if there are no crimes to solve then show respect for your community by getting into another line of work."
That's the thinking that let the police do what they did in Rotherham.
The Vagina as Fascist State, reaching ever-younger groups of women in the goal of divorcing their body from responsibility. Teaching an ethos of "This is my life and my body and I can do whatever I want with it" to young girls, disengaged from any sense of self-protection or self-respect, The Vagina as Fascist State leads the unformed mind to view their bodies as commodities to be advertised and the images traded like baseball cards.
By encouraging such expression as a part of pride of femalehood, the girls' early development of the jaded mentality ensures unhappiness before they even enter adulthood: they have been built to fail, and The Vagina as Fascist State is built to take these failures as new recruits.
When the difference between a child's email and pornography is but a split hair it is obvious that men will respond in the pornographic manner: a photograph of a supple exposed asshole is but an invitation to anal sex, exposed breasts and a coy smile a target for ejaculation to be performed and filmed, a picture begetting a picture. As such, an email in reply is but an RSVP -- required dress is as casual as the sex.
Ann Althouse said "Leave the kids alone, if there are no crimes to solve then show respect for your community by getting into another line of work." That's the thinking that let the police do what they did in Rotherham.
You know what the thinking in Rotherham was, then. Do tell.
I think the thinking in Rotherham was "we can't investigate these obvious crimes, because we'll be seen as racists".
betamax3000 said...
The Vagina as Fascist State, reaching ever-younger groups of women in the goal of divorcing their body from responsibility. Teaching an ethos of "This is my life and my body and I can do whatever I want with it" to young girls, disengaged from any sense of self-protection or self-respect, The Vagina as Fascist State leads the unformed mind to view their bodies as commodities to be advertised and the images traded like baseball cards.
By encouraging such expression as a part of pride of femalehood, the girls' early development of the jaded mentality ensures unhappiness before they even enter adulthood: they have been built to fail, and The Vagina as Fascist State is built to take these failures as new recruits.
well said
@Althouse, I disagree with your comment at 9:05. In this case the girls aren't victims; they are perpetrators. They are the individuals who produced the child pornography.
In Rotherham the girls were adamant that they had been victimized, but the police did nothing because of their perception that the "Asian" culture routinely victimized young white women and this was okay because of multiculturalism.
I agree with you Bob E. If the men had not been of the faith we cannot mention, then they all would have been in jail damn quick.
What seemed to mortify them most was having to talk about what they’d done with a 'police officer outside their age group.'.
The cops reminds me of a guy I knew who worked for Child Protective Services so he could look at kiddie porn.
Lyndh
I'm sorry but I don't understand.
Why can't we mention presbyterians?
john henry
Being a older gent, I am constantly amazed how young girls seem to LIKE to photograph themselves naked (and their neither region, uh, groomed.)
Yes the female body is very beautiful but to advertise it to all the others is to cheapen it.
Yea yea everybody knows now what they look like thanks to the internet and free porn but still they will regret later they allowed everyone to have such photos of them.
But that is why my wife and I like the show Castle and not 'Debbie Does Dallas'. Beckett excites me more with her cloths on than these kids without 'em.
This is contrary to the official school policy and so cannot exist.
The story sounds like the town clerk's experience at Andover in 1692. Some witchcraft had been alleged, so he set up a table in a field to receive complaints. Each one led to another, and by the time it got dark, forty or so witches had been accused. But even the Andover authorities didn't steal anyone's cell phone.
The Rotherham comparison is ludicrous.
The "stated" reason the cops did not interfere in Rotherham was because they said the girls involved were willing (Which, I think we all know is BS). A large problem with that is that many of the girls were young, well below the age they can reasonably be considered to make such a decision. Just allowing these girls to sext is allowing them to make a decision the consequences of which they likely cannot fully contemplate. The analogy would be better if the real reason the cops did not interfere in Rotherham was their stated reason, rather than the cops' fear of being called racist, but it's not wrong.
If the kids were upset about having to explain their actions to adult police, I'd suggest the correct action to take would be for the police to inform their parent(s) of the kid's actions, with a warning that it is criminal and will be dealt with as such if it recurs.
"Further measures will be taken" is a great bureaucratic phrase to chill individual liberty, as well as individual libertines.
Ann Althouse said...
"Leave the kids alone, if there are no crimes to solve then show respect for your community by getting into another line of work."
"That's the thinking that let the police do what they did in Rotherham."
It is the opposite.
These are law enforcement officers. They keep the people in line. Rotherham police kept the people in line too. No matter how evil it is. These officers were just peeping, stealing phones, and harassing the public. They are the same type that selectively enforce speed limits. Or block investigations of government protected groups.
We used to have peace officers in this country. We need to go back to that.
Fire sale on aisle sex.
Leave the kids alone, if there are no crimes to solve...
But there are crimes--manufacturing and distributing underage porn. Remember when people screamed to tighten all the laws regarding pictures when computers became ubiquitous? As ye sow...
Ann Althouse said...
"Leave the kids alone, if there are no crimes to solve then show respect for your community by getting into another line of work."
That's the thinking that let the police do what they did in Rotherham.
Bullshit. That comment was beneath you.
Right now, mothers are screaming because girls are sending their sons naughty pics. And mothers are screaming because girls aren't sending their sons naughty pics. And girls are crying when their pics get put up on the internet and some Romanian website features it prominently. Maybe even with Photoshopped extras, like penises. Hard to make everyone happy.
Has anyone been through a grocer's checkout in the past decade or two. They sell to women images of women half nude I magazines and call it fashion with of course the best sex tips to make him happy. Always about what the guy wants.
Of course young women, even as legal minors, see nothing wrong with sexting.
http://www.cosmopolitan.com/entertainment/celebs/news/g860/cosmo-cover-gallery/?thumbnails
In a saner society, the police wouldn't have gotten involved in the first place.
How shocking that middle-school and High School girls and boys make bad decisions.
That they are mortified to have adults discover this means they know what they're doing is wrong and they're shamed at being found out. I'm not sure why the police are involved here. This is what parents do when their children do something stupid. As children will do.
So this is the generation that is about to enter college. Where, thanks to the Obama Administration and the Department of Education Office of Civil Rights, Title IX will rule their sex lives.
You can't make this stuff up.
MadisonMan said...
"I'm not sure why the police are involved here."
They are involved here because the government is now involved in every decision you make. But if you argue for smaller government you want anarchy. Because progressives exist and this is their goal.
The education mafia insists on giving kindergartners hands-on instruction about masturbation, and the school calls the cops when high schoolers send sexy messages on their i-phones.
Instapundit is right when he says sending your kids to the public schools is child abuse.
Penises and vaginas have minds of their own. If you don't pay attention they will get you into all sorts of trouble.
It's a lack of sublimation. If these kids were more challenged at school, had JOBS, had chores, had to help take care of elderly relatives or younger sibs or whatnot, they wouldn't have TIME to sext.
Teenagers need to be busy. If they don't have important, constructive things to be busy with, they'll find stupid stuff to be busy with.
That's the thinking that let the police do what they did in Rotherham.
Kids passing nude pics of one another around isn't the same thing as a pedophilia rape ring.
One's a dumb idea.
The other is a crime.
These girls aren't having nude pix taken by OTHER of them without their knowledge leaked.
That's the thinking that let the police do what they did in Rotherham.
That is, hands down, the stupidest thing Althouse has ever written on this blog.
""Further measures will be taken" is a great bureaucratic phrase to chill individual liberty, as well as individual libertines."
These are children. Children shouldn't have individual liberty. My children live under a dictatorship, or perhaps a theocracy.
Althouse wrote:
"That's the thinking that let the police do what they did in Rotherham."
We are a schizophrenic society. Police these days are damned if they do, damned if they don't. Can't win. Eventually that'll break bad, for all of us.
As to the reason these kids are sexting, it's because you can't tell sexually abused people, "Hey, the way not to be sexually abused is to protect yourself by doing X, Y and Z."
We can tell someone, "Hey, you stand a greater chance of not being robbed if you lock your doors, get a dog, and alarm your house."
But if we tell girls, "Hey, you stand a much greater chance of never being raped if you wear more modest clothes, don't drink or do drugs, and don't send naked pictures of yourself to boys." well, that's blaming the victim!
re the Rotherham comment, I'm not sure that I agree with you 100% on your police work there, Ann.
Ann Althouse said...That's the thinking that let the police do what they did in Rotherham.
That's part of it, yes ma'am--the rest will come when the police's actions are condemned as slut-shaming or not being sex positive enough, calling the police sexists, and finally sending them for reeducation/sensitivity training. They then learn the lesson that it's better (for their careers, etc)to look away...and Rotherham.
I haven't read the full article. If the people under discussion are "senior girls" 18 and over who chose to send their own sexts then I agree that shouldn't be treated as a crime & investigated by the cops.
"Not a crime does not" equal "not something we should culturally discourage" of course. And my suspicion is that the investigators had to determine if the images they found were of underage persons. If the sext-ers were underage it's clearer that police involvement is warranted, right?
Key & Peele had a pretty funny sketch in which a pop star who encouraged young women to conflate slutty behavior with empowerment was revealed to have...questionable motives.
Tell me again how great it is for teenagers to have smartphones. Tell me one more time. It amuses me.
I'm trying to think of a more wrong-headed comment from Althouse than the Rotherham analogy and I'm coming up empty. There is no one who thinks that the alleged activity in Rotherham shouldn't be a crime even if the perps were "only" pimping willing underaged prostitutes. There are a lot of people (I'm certainly among them) who thinks that the fact that we have criminalized the activities of these kids is the real scandal here. Selective enforcement is a good stopgap until we can change the law. (Unless Althouse has joined the Ezra Klein "unjust laws are good" gang.)
"If the sext-ers were underage it's clearer that police involvement is warranted, right?"
No. The question is if there is an adult involved with a teen. A sex act (including sexting) between two fourteen-year-olds should not be a crime. A sex act between a forty-year-old and a fourteen-year-old should be.
Every time someone they were interviewing mentioned another kid who might have naked pictures on his or her phone, they had to call that kid in for an interview. After just a couple of days, the deputies had filled multiple evidence bins with phones, and they couldn’t see an end to it.
Hee...nor did they want to. I predict cops around the country are going to begin thorough and intensive investigations of this terrible "crime."
Tell me again how great it is for teenagers to have smartphones. Tell me one more time. It amuses me.
It's a fantastic idea. Right up there with car keys and whiskey.
Kids passing nude pics of one another around isn't the same thing as a pedophilia rape ring.
Of course not. It takes very little imagination to think how the first can easily be manipulated and escalated to the second. That's even if you consider the first to be benign, which I don't think it is.
This is why it will ultimately not matter. Death of Shame by Ubiquity. In a generation or so, it won't matter that a candidate for congress has teen naked pix out there, or embarrassing things mined from ancient FB archived feeds. It won't be half as troublesome as those tame, but embarrassing Sarah Palin beauty content vids were to her.
I have a friend who teaches in HS in Boston.
He said he thinks around 70% the students text-and they do it openly in the class.
He said teachers, parents, administrators and the police all know about it but don't do nothing. In class they will ask if he wants to see so and so's dick or clit pic.
kiss kiss.
"Every time someone they were interviewing mentioned ...they had to call that kid in for an interview."
Sounds like a poorly worded interview questionnaire, and I'd know. Was once asked to find a dozen phones for the government. Found one of them, and over 2,000 I wasn't looking for, due to a over-broad interview script that forced us down a lot of rabbit holes.
Seems like the progressive zeitgeist now wants to promote sex in the middle and high schools and prohibit it at college.
These are children. Children shouldn't have individual liberty. My children live under a dictatorship, or perhaps a theocracy.
It shouldn't be the GOVERNMENT being their dictator. That's the job of parents.
Allowing government to make asinine laws "for the children" has never been a good idea.
Tell me again how great it is for teenagers to have smartphones. Tell me one more time. It amuses me.
I deal with this at my job all the time.
"My son wouldn't look at girls in bikinis! You guys are wrong!"
"Ma'am, if all he is looking at is girls in bikinis, you're pretty fortunate. I could dig into his history and likely pull up some pretty rough stuff if you'd like"
Of course not. It takes very little imagination to think how the first can easily be manipulated and escalated to the second. That's even if you consider the first to be benign, which I don't think it is.
A girl sending a boy a shot of her tits isn't a crime. Sorry.
It's a stupid idea and, as I told my niece, that boy who was so nice that you sent him a pic of your tits, has also shown every friend he has that picture.
...but a bad idea is not and should not be a crime.
PatHMV,
You're a current or former prosecutor, right?
So I can't tell: did you mean "ll of these kids will be able to testify that they felt far more damaged by the actions of the cops" facetiously, or seriously?
Althouse,
"That's the thinking that let the police do what they did in Rotherham. "
Not just NO, but "are you f'n kidding me?" NO.
There were PLENTY of complainants in Rotherham; the authorities told them to get stuffed.
Fortunately, this is now irrelevant to me, but just what are the various legal remedies open to parents when a willing pair of minors starts going at it? I realize this differs a lot from state to state. But doesn't someone have something more sensible than life-long membership on a sex-offender list. (Fathers wielding shotguns filled with rock salt probably wasn't legal in my day, but enforcement was spotty.)
Dear Abby, Dear Abby...
Well I never thought
That me and my girlfriend would ever get caught
We were sitting in the back seat just shooting the breeze
With her hair up in curlers and her pants to her knees
Signed Just Married
I was going to write something about my guess as to where in their hierarchy of sexual activities these kids put exchanging a nude selfie. My guess is "a long lead off first base." But this just made it really clear how bad the baseball metaphor for sex is. We need a new one. It needs to have at least a dozen stops. If memory serves, it needed that many back in the '70's. How many does it need now?
Of course not. It takes very little imagination to think how the first can easily be manipulated and escalated to the second. That's even if you consider the first to be benign, which I don't think it is.
You might as well say it take little imagination to see how letting a teenager go on a date can lead to him or her becoming a street prostitute.
It takes quite a lot of imagination, actually. You have to imagine a step wherein a pedophile somehow gets access to the photos, then a step where he or she somehow secretly enslaves the children into making more, then a step where the authorities find out about it and cover it up.
That's a lot of imagining.
These are young people bombarded with moral relativism who, like their teachers, have no effective moral compass beyond the supermarket tabloid and internet porn.
OMG, Teenagers are horny creatures. Who would have guessed?
Isn't this largely the result of infantilizing behavior and increasing amount of behavior combined with the idolization of the teenage years? Society refuses to let kids grow up and learn responsibility so what do you expect? The way we, in general, treat teenagers is evolutionarily perverse. (It's legally obscene too--common sense things parents could do even forty years ago are now prohibited by law.)
The National Enquirer sometimes features candid shots of celebrities on the beach. The Enquirer helpfully circles their cellulite deposits in red and provides close ups of their fat asses and flabby midriffs.....,The guess here is that the celebrities find those photos more offensive than nude selfies. To a movie star and a teen age girl, the only really embarrassing photo is an unflattering one.......Anyway I wouldn't worry about it. In ten years time all those girls will look nothing like their nude selfies.
damikesc writes;
"It shouldn't be the GOVERNMENT being their dictator. That's the job of parents."
Sure it should. Children don't have the same rights as you or I.
"Allowing government to make asinine laws "for the children" has never been a good idea."
Of course it hasn't. However, allowing government to make laws for the children is a good idea.
I notice how you felt the need to put "asinine" before laws, which must mean we're in agreement.
People talk about teenagers having sex like it was some bizarre new trend. In reality, teenagers abstaining from sex is the bizarre new trend. An 18-year-old woman with no kids is a historical oddity.
With all the yammering about historical norms and biological determinism we hear when the subject of gay marriage comes up, you would think people's wouldn't need to think all that hard to figure out why sexually mature people want to fuck.
Kirk Parker:
I was using "testify" in its broader sense of "bearing witness to," not to suggest that these young people would have some cause of action against the cops, however much I may think they are being unwise and abusing their discretion.
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