22-year-old Owen S. Reese was arrested for reckless endangerment. The police say that upon opening the door, the man "immediately started yelling at the children... made threatening motions toward the children and yelled at them to leave." A parent was present and yelled at the kids to leave.
The man's assertion that he always answers the door with a sword is backed up by the fact that when the police arrived at his house, he answered the door "holding a sword with both hands at shoulder height." Told to drop it, he did.
You know, this is why I just don't answer the door (unless I know who's arriving). I don't want to fend off pint-sized salesfolk or tie-with-short-sleeved-shirt-wearing adults. But if you are going to answer the door in your own house, what's wrong with being armed? I'm not saying Reese didn't cross a line here, depending on what "threatening motions" he made. What makes people feel entitled to a kid-friendly greeting when they disturb random strangers in their homes?
The linked article publishes the man's address, so anyone is free to look at it in Google street views. I performed this high-tech invasion of personal space, but only because I wanted to imagine his subjective experience. Wandering down that virtual street is — in so many ways — my subjective experience. Swiveling to the long view of the street, I felt like I was looking at the establishing shot in a movie scene where something terrible was about to happen....
..... and there I am, safe with the popcorn.
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I'd guess a sabre. Foil and epee wouldn't work held over your head.
I agree. If he stayed within his own home, why can't he carry a sword?
Damocles had sword over head, so would be a precedent.
For home protection, a shotgun would be better (citing, Joe Biden, VP of the USA).
What makes people feel entitled to a kid-friendly greeting when they disturb random strangers in their homes?
Because this is how good neighbors treat each other? Who needs to be rude (or worse) to a little kid selling popcorn?
He had the option of not opening the door.
A sign "no solicitations".
Even if it's a religious person....does he need a sword for that?
rhhardin said...
I'd guess a sabre. Foil and epee wouldn't work held over your head.
at my house it would be a Sabre, as in my Cavalry Dress Saber. Though some former marines and ex-squids would have inferior alternatives :)
http://www.militarysabers.com/us-army-saber.html
"LOWELL, Mass., Feb. 19 (UPI) -- A 79-year-old Massachusetts woman reportedly pulled a gun on a man who shoveled her driveway on Tuesday without asking and then knocked on her door to demand cash.
The woman told the man to go away and shut the door in his face. The man continued knocking on the door and the woman allegedly came back holding a gun.
"She feared he was going to break in so she opened the door again with the firearm at her side"
Read more: http://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2014/02/19/79-year-old-Massachusetts-woman-pulls-gun-on-man-who-shoveled-her-driveway/4171392837566/#ixzz3FBZZ9om4
Please focus on the fact that he was arrested, otherwise you've got an unintended unstated premise that anyone who doesn't chose the best from a set of options commits a crime.
Being a rude jerk or a timorous over-reactor isn't a crime.
Fearing or hating doorbell-ringers isn't a crime just because you didn't have to answer your own door.
A 79-year-old Massachusetts woman reportedly pulled a gun on a man who shoveled her driveway on Tuesday without asking and then knocked on her door to demand cash.
Squeegee Men of the Snow.
(In my neighborhood people are always shoveling driveways and sidewalks without permission, but the wily perps disappear anonymously into their garages with their snow blowers and shovels before the sun has cleared the horizon.)
Did the popcorn selling Scouts feel raped by the experience?
You can tell a lot about a person by where they want to put their finger...
Althouse writes: You know, this is why I just don't answer the door (unless I know who's arriving).
This reminded me of all those years you used to blog Halloween night without answering the door, until Meade arrived on the scene and showed you that it wasn't so scary or traumatic after all.
I answer the door naked because a lot of good Penthouse letters started that way.
Instead of answering the door I stick my head out the window at the far end of the house like the Wizard at the doors to the Emerald City, or "Laugh In" if you prefer. Throws them off their spiel and makes me look too busy.
When the schoolbus of cheerleaders breaks down in front of your home and they come to the door in their uniforms for assistance would you rather be naked, or have a sword?
From the story's description he was 'brandishing' the sword. That is quite different than simply having one in possession.
When the schoolbus of cheerleaders breaks down in front of your home and they come to the door in their uniforms for assistance would you rather be naked, or have a sword?
The scabBard of Avon calling?
Reread the article, very clear that his actions were aggressive.
So what if the cub scouts had pepper spray and when he opened the door brandishing a sword over his head, the cub scouts sprayed and subdued him?
Are we going to blame the cub scouts for ringing the door bell.
What if they came to my door with their popcorn and I had a severe popcorn allergy? Could I not assume they thus intended to kill me? It is me or them, the little bastards.
beta: there is a kernel of truth in what you wrote.
He was aggressive within the confines of his property, hardly a crime unless violence occurs.
Stay off other people's property unless invited.
"to protect himself from religious people" should strike fear in some commenters. Apparently it is a justification.
I hope he sues. If it's legal to have a sword in the home, then it must be legal to hold it while in that home. My only objection is to the official immunity the police will claim, leaving taxpayers on the hook for their kidnapping and false imprisonment.
That said, this is yet another case where the "don't be a dick" rule could have saved a lot of people a lot of trouble.
Suppose instead of a sword he was carrying a gun which he pointed at the scouts while acting in an aggressive, threatening manner.
Would that be acceptable? Ringing doorbells is not illegal. Answering your door armed is not illegal. I've done it myself when an unknown drunk was pounding on my door at 5 in the morning (turned out he was looking for my neighbor.)
Threatening people with a weapon for no good reason? Turns out that's illegal.
Show me the man, and I will find the crime.
Being a jerk shouldn't be a crime. I think the Cub Scouts learned a valuable lesson here: some people don't like to be bothered and will tell you that in many different ways.
I'd request a Jury Trial.
He needs to practice using a sword of words coming out of his mouth.
carrying a sword and holding it in a threatening manner are two very different things. If you think that you can legally brandish weapons at people who come to your door then you probably have brain synapses that sound like a chihuahua caught in a bug zapper.
"Threatening motions toward the children": I assume the reckless endangerment charge is based on the idea that he was acting in a way that had the risk that, even if he didn't mean to, he could have injured the child.
Kind of like my son, in a temper tantrum, throwing pillows -- and he threw my younger son's light-up "pillow pet." Yes, he didn't plan on breaking it, but it was reckless.
But that is what a "No Solicitors" sign is for. I am, right now, in the midst of coordinating our Cub Scout Pack's popcorn sale. A couple rules: don't sell on Sunday. Print out the solicitor's license I e-mailed to them. And if there's a No Solicitors sign, don't solicit. (OK, the last of these I'm not sure I explicitly instructed everyone one -- but isn't it common sense.) And if you don't want solicitors, get yourself a sticker.
Carrying arms in your own home, to include carrying it while answering the door is perfectly acceptable. Brandishing said arms at someone who has not presented a reasonable belief in the threat of death or grave bodily injury (to include *not* having broken into your home) is a different matter.
Had the sword been in a scabbard on his hip, or had it been in his hand behind the doorframe out of sight, but still at the ready, there wouldn't be a problem.
Why didn't he just yell "go away" like misanthropes all over the world?
Why the delusional anti-theist self-justification?
May be a case where we caught a lunatic before he hurt somebody.
"This reminded me of all those years you used to blog Halloween night without answering the door, until Meade arrived on the scene and showed you that it wasn't so scary or traumatic after all."
On Halloween, I do (or think I do) know who's arriving.
The difference with Meade is that he introduced the idea of answering the door in a scary way. I'd answer the door normally, then he'd come up from behind with monster gloves on and attack me and I'd scream. But then that one kid cried and we never did it again.
Anyway, I think if it were Halloween, Reese would get away with answering his door like that, no?
"Why the delusional anti-theist self-justification?"
Maybe the police are known to be liberal.
How soon before Curious Birkel starts insisting that Owen Reese is a Democrat who is out to get Walker?
I'd guess a butter-steel Pakistani fantasy sword wielded by a chronic-masturbating, metal-head, Internet-forum conspiracy theorist (yes, I know it wasn't Crack) who had an absent father and a bipolar white trash mother. Some people need no excuse to act like assholes. They arrive at adulthood fully conditioned and trained.
Once, I opened the door to a canvassing member of the Progressive Party. I listened politely to his spiel, but told him that I really had no intention of going any further to the left than the Democratic Party (I was a Democrat then), thank you.
He then launches into an angry tirade about how the Democrats were exactly the same as the Republicans, and I was a fool if I believed any truly progressive action would ever come out of the Democrats.
I then told him that I wasn't looking for "progressive action" of any sort out of anyone, thank you, and don't lecture me on my front door step, especially if you want my money. Furthermore, I told him to get off of my property post haste.
As for the Jehovah's Witnesses, I'm always kind to them & graciously accept a copy of Awake or The Watchtower. I've had a soft spot for the Witnesses since I was 12, and had the hots for this cute 13 year old redhead who used to canvass our neighborhood in Alabama. Not exactly the most moral of motivations, but, hey, it's certainly human.
True story. A few years back I spent an afternoon painting my mother's wheelchair ramp.
I finished, looked at it and wondered whether I should post a "fresh paint" sign. Since were in a rural area in Michigan, and it was the middle of the week, and we don't get many visitors, I just went inside and started washing my hands.
Knock at the door. Two Jehovah's witnesses had just walked up the freshly painted ramp. They hadn't noticed they could have gone around, either.
It was a good thing I didn't have a sword at hand.
Once, I opened the door to a canvassing member of the Progressive Party.
At least at your house he didn't meet the fate of this guy:
Dressler, without provocation, shot and dismembered James Madden, 24, when he came to Dressler`s home on June 27, 1990, soliciting support and funds for Wisconsin`s Citizens for a Better Environment.
Dressler, she said, was ``fascinated by pornography and young pretty men- a category Jim (Madden) unfortunately fell into.`` Some of Madden`s body parts were later found stuffed in yellow garbage bags at a half-dozen sites near Dressler`s home in Raymond Township, about 10 miles west of Racine. Some parts were never found.......
"Blogger Renee said...
Are we going to blame the cub scouts for ringing the door bell."
Yes. If I wanted popcorn, I could go to the store and buy some. This is just a guilt-trip aren't-kids-cute shakedown racket. With proceeds going, as they always do, to some left-wing rat-sucker like Jane the Actuary.
OK are we going to blame anyone for ringing a door bell.
"The difference with Meade is that he introduced the idea of answering the door in a scary way. I'd answer the door normally, then he'd come up from behind with monster gloves on and attack me and I'd scream. But then that one kid cried and we never did it again."
And yet you have a perfectly legal right to brandish monster gloves in your own home. But when you implied or simulated violence with them...
Renee said...
"OK are we going to blame anyone for ringing a door bell."
Very well. I suppose that the existence of a doorbell does imply a certain willingness to be disturbed. On the other hand, ringing a doorbell also implies a certain desire to interact with the inhabitant. If it turns out that he has a sword, and that disturbs you, perhaps the correct response is to go away. Rapidly.
When does "holding" become "brandishing"?
Yes, Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons frequently mug people.
Happens all of the time.
SWORD CONTROL! WE NEED SWORD CONTROL! MOMS UNITE!!!
What makes people feel entitled to a kid-friendly greeting when they disturb random strangers in their homes?
Because you wouldn't want to whip my dick out and pee in your area if you knocked on my door.
It's called basic civilization.
Apparently, that is a strain for some folks.
It's the same reason I don't shoot the neighbor's dog when he shits on my lawn.
Being a jerk shouldn't be a crime. I think the Cub Scouts learned a valuable lesson here: some people don't like to be bothered and will tell you that in many different ways.
Well, I may not feel like getting out of the way of an ambulance with somebody dying in the back.
...but I'm not enough of an asshole to act on that.
The dude was a prick.
Is it THAT hard to say "No thanks"?
Very well. I suppose that the existence of a doorbell does imply a certain willingness to be disturbed. On the other hand, ringing a doorbell also implies a certain desire to interact with the inhabitant. If it turns out that he has a sword, and that disturbs you, perhaps the correct response is to go away. Rapidly.
...how would you know he had a sword? It's not, you know, common.
I would be interested in what the word "brandish" means here. Having fenced, I know what constitutes a threatening situation with a blade, mostly it has to do with distance. Do the police? Do they just see someone with a sword and assume it is a threat?
And of course there is the legal question, does endangerment require that the position is really threatening or that the target see it as threatening. Most people really do not know when a sword is threatening
DougWeber said...
I would be interested in what the word "brandish" means here.
There's nothing in the article that says he threatened the kids. Instead, it reads like one of those BS "the kids felt threatened" lines. Here are the 2 specific claims:
1) he was within 5 feet of the kids. Well, duh. They were on one side of the door, he was on the other. Of course it was less than 5 feet.
2) he held the sword above his head and made a threatening motion like he was going to swing it at them. Ummm....no he didn't. There was a doorframe in the way.
My loft building has a 24 hour "clerk" who doesn't let anyone get by unless he knows of a pending guest in the loft building.
He has seen me bring home so much rough trade.
I give him a generous gift of cash for Ramadah.
tits.
I also can spin a saber....and throw it up in the air, have it rotate 6 times, and catch behind by back.
In Drum Corps I spun saber and rifle.
When I started in the Madison Scouts Senior Corps I was 15 and most everyone else was 18-21. My older sisters named me Strawberry Shortcake and Sarah Lee and Sandy Duncan.
tits
"You send boys to fight men?"
"Why do I carry a sword? Because this is Sparta!"
There's a good bit of 4th Amendment caselaw on what a homeowner can do to communicate to the world that no one is welcome to approach and knock on their door.
I saw a picture of the guy. He has the same crazy look like the CT school-shooter. I suspect the saber wielding freak will some day be back in the news in a very bad way. Crazy doesn't go away on its's own.
Jane the Actuary here. What is a "left wing rat-sucker"?
Jane the Actuary here. What is a "left wing rat-sucker"?
I wondered about that too - seems like some kind of response you would get at a site like Breitbart
Seriously, though, I recommend against using a sword for home protection, particularly at the front (or any) door). In a confined space, a sword can be used effectively only by a highly trained swordsman. If you must use a sword for such a purpose, you might consider a Roman gladius -- a short, straight, stabbing sword.
Of course your typical Boy Scout intruder is unlikely to be armed with more than a Swiss Army knife, so you will have an advantage. But Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, and other Theists often carry the Sword of the Lord, in which case you are SOL.
My grandfather was full of jokes all his life. His son was drafted in WW2 and assigned to a dental clinic where he made bridges and false teeth. He made a set of about 8 crooked front teeth mounted with a hollow spot so you could cover your real teeth. Toy stores have similar things today. My gradfather also had a bald spot on the bac of his head and did the combover to cover it--a comb-back in his case.
At Halloween he answered the door with his hair combed forward over his face and with the crooked teeth. He got some screams! Eventually the neighborhood kids caught on that he was a fun guy to have as a neighbor.
So I go knock on your door with my Kid, and you answer it while holding a shotgun in your hands. How am I supposed to take that?
And holding a unsheathed sword over your head is like pointing a gun at someone.
Its a threat. And should be illegal - unless you had reason to feel threatened yourself, by my 10 year old kid.
Holding a sheathed sword is not a threat, nor is it a threat if its hanging on your belt.
Holding it over your head? Yeah, that's a threat.
People are talking about being neighborly, but the kids ringing the bell weren't his neighbors. They were solicitors. If they were truly his neighbors, they would have known to steer clear of the crazy's house.
Jane the Actuary said...
Jane the Actuary here. What is a "left wing rat-sucker"?
Jane the Actuary earlier said...
"I am, right now, in the midst of coordinating our Cub Scout Pack's popcorn sale."
O'Sullivan's law.
TTAG is one of the other blogs I read regularly.
I cracked a grin when I saw Ann being referenced there just now.
:)
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