"He wanted to be a doctor without borders from when he was a kid. It's all he wanted to do.... He didn't just want to be a doctor, he wanted to be a doctor without borders."
Craig Spencer's uncle is distressed to hear criticism of his heroically humanitarian nephew, who went to great lengths to do good, but also did some meaningless little things — riding the subway, going bowling — that he could so easily have avoided.
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The hero who brought Ebola to New York. Some people really need to curb the humanitarian impulses.
Is he Craig Spencer's uncle or his brother?
Will the millions who catch Ebola from his negligence use a Class Action law suit?
Uncle, brother?
Or nephew?
They go...they KNOW the risks ...............
I rule out ignorance. This medical professional knows Ebola risks better than any of us ever will.
That leaves me with premeditation as his reason for putting millions and millions of New Yorkers at risk. He went to west Africa to pump his ego then decided it's not for him. So why not bring his work home with him? It is good for his business and the working conditions in NYC are far superior to Liberia.
The Hippocratic Oath must now be optional. Dr. Spencer is no hero.
Hard to fault him if he was just following government guidelines.
You can respect someone who does a good thing on one hand and still think he is an idiot for doing something else - you know, like traveling around the city when he knew he had been been exposed to Ebola!
How else than by going out on the town is a guy suppose to get laid for telling his own tale of being such a humanitarian?
Doctors without common sense. Hopefully he went bowling alone, like the title of the book.
Sorry, didn't see MathMom's post.
The Tennessee doc self-quarantined.
Let's be political: is that anything to do with Red State, Blue State? Or to do with missionary and do-gooders?
Or, more appropriate, to blame CDC's so-called protocol? Dallas nurse 2 had a fever of 98.+ and called CDC for advice before she hopped on a plane. CDC said it's cool. Dr. New Yorker has gone thru CDC's check point with a temp of 98.+ and was let go.
Don't beat up the doc. Beat the crap out of Czar Ebola who is paid huge bucks to take care of business.
Deferred gratification is a learned trait. Many in Dr. Spencer's age group have not learned it yet. It is "I want it and I want it now" mindset. I see it in young apt dwelling couples who both work long hours yet they still think that is an appropriate home environment to have a dog {s}.
The quote I took was from the uncle.
If you're trying to offer a correction, I'm not seeing it.
Am I wrong?
The Ebola doctor went bowling with his fiancé and another couple-- they are all in isolation at Bellevue Hospital.
True heroes do not demand to be called heroes IMO.
He's a hero who later did something really stupid. His heroism doesn't earn a get-out-of-jail card for criticism.
correction issue:
"Craig Spencer's uncle is distressed to hear criticism of his heroically humanitarian brother"
I would expect that they are all profs/Dems. Pretty much have to be. Yes, Going overseas to save people is noble. But what matters is results, and not good intentions. Good intentions with lousy execution is what got us to where we are in so many areas. Only the left would idolize someone who could potentially be the agent of killing millions.
"I would use this power for good."
Hard to fault him if he was just following government guidelines.
Ah, yes. Always trust the Government guidelines, even if they fly in the face of your education, commons sense, and personal experience.
Reckless endangerment, at least.
Dangerous naivety, for sure.
Just as I suspected. His mother is in stage 5 renal failure, and doctor do gooder was off saving the world. These are arrogant dangerous people.
Definitely get that old "decline and fall" feel while reading these articles. No more, "oh well, laymen don't seem to grasp the point of prudent public health measures, but, after all, probabilistic thinking doesn't come naturally". No, there's something else in the water or the air that's endumb-ening the populace. Fifty years ago, was JQ Public so dumb that he ran around saying things like "hey, Duncan's companions didn't contract ebola, therefore quarantining them was, like, totally unnecessary!
Maybe so, I dunno. But how else to explain supposedly trained medical personnel entering wtf , no, wtff territory:
But Dan Kelly, 33, an infectious disease doctor and a founder of Wellbody Alliance, a nonprofit organization working in Sierra Leone, criticized the governors’ response as knee-jerk.
“I think we are just digging the grave deeper,” he said in a telephone interview from Freetown, the capital. “Come on, that’s exactly the move to push people away from going to Sierra Leone and other affected areas. It’s going to escalate the epidemic and not help solve the crisis.”
He added: “If we’re going to get in front of it, we need health care workers from abroad. They cannot feel shunned or discriminated against.”
Dear God. We can't even be adults when talking about things as serious as nasty infectious diseases. No, we absolutely must waste time, resources, and effort rubbing another one out to our Universal Number One Priority, the fight against (non-existent or wholly sane) "discrimination".
Admittedly, other personnel quoted in the linked article show more sense.
He is both a doctor and a do-gooder, his ego must be beyond belief.
"Blogger Bruce Hayden said...
I would expect that they are all profs/Dems. Pretty much have to be. Yes, Going overseas to save people is noble. But what matters is results, and not good intentions. Good intentions with lousy execution is what got us to where we are in so many areas. Only the left would idolize someone who could potentially be the agent of killing millions."
Judging liberals by the results of their actions instead of their intensions is wrong. Just ask them. They measure the success of the programs they advocate by the inputs (spending) instead of the outputs (results). This allows them to feel good about themselves as they happily wreck havoc with their stupid ideas.
Medical professionals who volunteer their services to help others are doing the Lord's work. However, in cases of diseases like Ebolia, they should submit to quarentine upon their return to protect others. They could use the time to catch up on their paperwork or reading.
It is a symptom of our sick society that, whenever anything bad happens, blame must be fixed somewhere, immediately. Some bad things happen in spite of all our best efforts. We have to learn how to forgive and move on.
And the troll "Steve Uhr" shows us exactly how progressives feel. He thinks that the government, even when shown to be incompetent, gives itself and us an excuse for risking others' lives.
It's all about power. Every word typed or uttered is an excuse to exercise the Will to Power. Eggs must be broken. The state Uber Alles!
"Blogger Tyrone Slothrop said...
It is a symptom of our sick society that, whenever anything bad happens, blame must be fixed somewhere, immediately. Some bad things happen in spite of all our best efforts. We have to learn how to forgive and move on."
With a reported million lawyers in the United States, such senitments are likely unamerican.
To paraphrase the late Ms. Hemsley, regulations are for the little people.
Apparently the Good Doc is more concerned with the health of West Africans than with the health of us'n here.
Only the left would idolize someone who could potentially be the agent of killing millions.
Oh noes. Ebola got a taste for cracka blood now. Big government, please save us!
Grackle: The hero who brought Ebola to New York. Some people really need to curb the humanitarian impulses.
Münchausen by proxy for the more ambitious.
Birkel -- I don't think the government should gets a pass for incompetence. But was it unreasonable for him to think he was not risking other's lives given the CDC has been assuring us: 1) zero risk from causal contact and 2) zero risk if no symptoms? Some people think vaccinations cause autism. If it is later proven they are right should we vilify everyone who vaccinated their kids?
I don't know if it's a correction issue or not - I just couldn't figure out the family tree. Maybe it doesn't branch.
Or maybe it's like, you can't get Ebola from riding on public transportation, but if you have Ebola, don't ride on public transportation because you might spread it.
Hello! Didn't the CDC initially say that you could have skin exposed when working with Eblola patients? I believe I am safe in assuming the "good doctor" didn't follow those CDC guidelines while in Africa!
So...the guy did what he knew was safe in Africa but then came back to the USA and says well the CDC says it was ok for me to go out and about and since they know best?
I call bullshit on that line of thinking! And if he thought that, well he isn't as smart as some people are saying he is.
"correction issue:
"Craig Spencer's uncle is distressed to hear criticism of his heroically humanitarian brother""
Thanks. I would never have noticed that I did that. I remember thinking nephew as I wrote it, so it's just bizarre to see that I wrote brother.
Where do you draw the line and why? I assume you think it was correct for the schools in Ohio to close because a staff member flew on the same flight as Nurse 2. What if the school was Ohio State University? What about the Starbucks where an OSU student works part time. And on and on ... Should we quarantine NYC? Better safe than sorry.
I have a friend who was in Liberia for four months on non-Ebola related business. He told me there are dead bodies all over the place and he was careful and wore gloves. He has no symptoms. I touched him on the shoulder. Should I and everyone I have been within three feet of be quarantined (putting aside your personal dislike of me)?
I thought a troll was someone who is insincere and just trying to upset other commentators. But you said you think I believe what I say. Is it so hard for you to listen to opposing views? Toughen up.
One can be a hero and still be a jerk. Those two are perfectly compatible.
"Craig Spencer's uncle is distressed to hear criticism of his heroically humanitarian nephew, who went to great lengths to do good, but also did some meaningless little things — riding the subway, going bowling — that he could so easily have avoided. "
Ok, so you say the things he did are meaningless, which would mean that they are ok? I don't think that's what you meant, but that's how I read it. Maybe you DO mean that we are concerned over something that has no meaning. Or, ah, I see it now - you mean that TO HIM they are/should be meaningless therefore he could have waited. Yes, I bet that's what you meant.
Anyway...
There's so much we do not know about this. Until we do, this doctor should have erred on the side of caution, as Dr Snyderman did. Because - der - we are all asking ourselves, if they are telling us there is no reason to be concerned on the one hand, then why are they going out and doing contact tracings and looking at sites he visited on the other?
Nina Pham ain't white. Neither is Amber Vinson. New York is the quintessential American melting pot.
So some stupid fat fuck leach who I'm sure l, living in one of the whitest states in America decides to play typical democrat cocksucker race cards.
Eat shit pussy.
Is living.
One of my favorite parts of visiting New York is the real love actual diversity of its denizens.
But the local fat fuck pasty white mewling pussy wouldn't know anything about that fun aspect.
After all, there's no way he could afford a hotel there.
Whoops again. Real live.
sadly for us, he was also for quarantine without borders.
Steve Uhr wrote:
I have a friend who was in Liberia for four months on non-Ebola related business. He told me there are dead bodies all over the place and he was careful and wore gloves. He has no symptoms. I touched him on the shoulder. Should I and everyone I have been within three feet of be quarantined (putting aside your personal dislike of me)?
one of the doctors the media always brings on to explain Ebola (dont remember his name) desribes how when he went to Liberia NO ONE touched anybody. No hand shaking even.
Its scary stuff. If Liberia is worried enough to take that precaution I don't have a lot of faith in the patient who comes here and rides public transportation.
Steve Uhr wrote:
He told me there are dead bodies all over the place and he was careful and wore gloves. He has no symptoms. I touched him on the shoulder. Should I and everyone I have been within three feet of be quarantined (putting aside your personal dislike of me)?
Well you said he was careful and didn't contract Ebola.So then, you can touch his shoulder. If you did touch his shoulder and he had ebola you might be at risk. Are you wearing gloves?
Steve Uhr, would you travel to Liberia and touch people on the shoulder and not wear gloves?
Would you as a doctor deal with ebola patients and not wear a hazmat suit or something that covers your skin?
You dont get on the subway in a hazmaat suit. And so, if someone sick with ebola is on the subway with you, it's kind of serious (to put it mildly).
I dont know why liberals are viewing this as racism or that people are saying it because they hate other people. it would be the most minimum of precautions.
Ebola spread to Mali. A 2 year old girl just died from it. And I read how the doctors are worried beucase she was on a bus and had a bloody nose, and think she might have potentially infected others.
In other words, once she's symptomatic she's a danger to people on the bus.
I've also ridden a train in NYC during rush hour. DO you know how packed the trains are? So imagine if this girl got on a train here instead of a bus in Mali? Would YOU want to be the person who was cramped next to her on the 1 train while she's coughing and/or bleeding?
Some peope use turpentine as a way to treat viruses or candida. They actually drink it. Its diluted of course with oil or honey.
But there was a guy on you tube who showed you how to make your own turpentine that you can consume.
And then to prove it wasn't harmful he drank it. And didn't die.
People who say there is no chance to get ebola on public transportation should prove it by getting on trains planes and boats with a known ebola patient, stand only a few feet away and then tell us what happens. Lets have the cough on you and see if it spreads.
If it doesn't then we have nothing to worry about.
He was a hero when he incurred the risk of treating others who were infected. He wasn't a hero when he failed to self-quarantine following his exposure.
And if the CDC really felt that way, they wouldn't be setting up checkpoints at air ports measuring people's temperatures or shutting down the bowling and desanitizing it for hours because he was there. Because there would be no threat in people getting planes and flying.
Governors Cuomo and Christie have announced "a mandatory Ebola-related quarantine for people returning to the United States through airports in New York and New Jersey who are deemed 'high risk'."
And, jeez, just like with a travel ban from the affected countries, health organizations and workers are pushing back:
The first quarantined individual—a Doctors Without Borders nurse who had worked in Sierra Leone—developed a fever after she was detained Friday and was hospitalized, though officials said that she had tested negative for Ebola on Saturday morning. She may be tested again.
In an essay published by the Dallas Morning News on Saturday, the nurse identified herself as Kaci Hickox and wrote that being quarantined at University Hospital in Newark “is not a situation I would wish on anyone, and I am scared for those who will follow me.”
“I am scared about how health-care workers will be treated at airports when they declare that they have been fighting Ebola in West Africa,” Ms. Hickox wrote. “I am scared that, like me, they will arrive and see a frenzy of disorganization, fear and, most frightening, quarantine.”
Being kept in a hospital in New Jersey is frightening? Poor little her. Better to endanger others.
And...
The new quarantine measures announced by Messrs. Cuomo and Christie also have drawn criticism from some medical experts and aid groups who said it was unnecessary and would deter people from humanitarian work in African countries. New York City’s health commissioner, Mary Travis Bassett, wasn’t told of the decision by Govs. Cuomo and Christie and was displeased, according to a person who talked with her.
To put it another way, "hero" is about what you do. "Jerk" is about who you are.
Here's the link for the above about the quarantined nurse.
I don't think you can trust medical personnel to self quarantine themselves. How about opening up a section of Governor's Island for them. Make them stay there for three weeks, but give them free cable and condoms. All part of their humanitarian adventure........I'm sure that the doctor is a decent human being, but he put his girl friend at risk. The bowling alley and restaurant he went to aren't going to be doing much business either. The risks he assumed have radiated to others who didn't assume those risks.......I hope he gets better and that no one with whom he came into contact gets sick. But it's not inappropriate to quarantine travelers from afflicted countries. One more case and it will happen. And one case of secondary spread, my anxiety level will increase exponentially.
First do no harm. That is an intelligence test fo the MD. Some have that mind and some don't.
Excellent MDs also volunteer for several weeks a year to take free skilled medical service to poor countries.
But the not so excellent MDs go into Doctors Without Borders because they are good enough to not be turned down
In other words, "He meant well, so the consequences of his actions, real or potential, don't matter."
They should charge him for the cost of all the cleanup, the lost revenue for the bowling alley and the Uber car. They do that if you go backcountry skiing or wilderness hiking and they have to send someone in to get you.
Steve Uhr said...
Birkel -- I don't think the government should gets a pass for incompetence. But was it unreasonable for him to think he was not risking other's lives given the CDC has been assuring us: 1) zero risk from causal contact and 2) zero risk if no symptoms? Some people think vaccinations cause autism. If it is later proven they are right should we vilify everyone who vaccinated their kids?
10/25/14, 10:52 AM
Some people think the moon is made of cheese but we give them no credence just as we give no credence to the autism resulting from vaccines since it was proven to be not true and the doctor who claimed admitted he faked the results. So much for that analogy.
As for the CDC recommendations 1 and 2 as you mentioned as a doctor with direct personally knowledge of Ebola and its contagion and treatment it certainly was unreasonable of him to rely on the CDC (if he actually did so). Speaking of not being contagious if not symptomatic that itself is a slippery measure since the CDC doesn't state which specific symptoms and too which degree of severity is it necessary to be able to be considered a contagion risk. In another comment you mentioned your friend who spent four months in Liberia but you don't mention how long he was back before you touched him on the shoulder. Was it more than three weeks? As for Ebola not everyone exposed will contract the disease. No disease is 100% infective and symptomatic. There maybe people who are naturally resistant to the disease (and they maybe non-symptomatic but contagious like Typhoid Mary)and don't contract the disease. That isn't known. What is known that people who contract the disease and are full symptomatic have a very high mortality rate. If I am not mistaken 9 out of 18 Medicine Without Frontiers doctors who contracted Ebola have died of the disease. Dr. Spencer should have been aware of that and aware of the fact that the doctors who survived the disease can't recall what specific incident resulted them to being infected with the disease. Spencer is guilty of being reckless in the face of uncertainty.
Just goes to show how lots of folks that commit altruism are motivated by selfish traits.
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