३ सप्टेंबर, २०१४
"So basically she's like Jesus, except with a mattress instead of a crucifix."
Says a commenter at "Columbia Student Will Carry a Mattress Everywhere Until Her Alleged Rapist Is Expelled."
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८९ टिप्पण्या:
Wouldn't a single "no" from any one of her professors shut this down? Couldn't the mattress be seen as disruptive to the classroom environment?
Let me guess --- she isn't going to the police, right?
Makes a claim REALLY doubtful in that case.
Well, that'll show them.
Either this woman was raped or she wasn't, but why this should be adjudicated by Columbia University and not the NYPD and NY State court system escapes me. If this guy actually raped her, then how on earth is expelling him from campus a remotely suitable punishment?
Schools can adjudicate all sorts of things--academic dishonesty, substandard teaching techniques, campus dress codes. The idea that they have any business handling serious crimes is unseriousness itself.
Until that changes, I expect to see a Million Mattress March or some other nonsense.
Re: "Let me guess --- she isn't going to the police, right?"
A connected article states that she has gone to the police. For which I applaud.
I would've hoped for a little more background in the story than 'she was raped in her dorm room'. It seems the article is purposefully attempting to steer clear of details that may add complexity to the situation.
Perhaps all dorm bedrooms should be equipped with a camera to record potential crimes.
Reading this I am inclined to believe that 6 out of 5 women are raped on our dangerous college campuses.
this would provoke me to test, from a sheer scientific curiosity, how much grit she has.
Would carrying a mattress continue after graduation? During summer vacations? During spring break?
Also, some serious kid did not get into Columbia because this bitch did.
Devil's Advocate: perhaps there really is a higher percentage of rape on campuses precisely because it is treated unseriously, unserious = handled by college, not police.
Thus, those predisposed to taking advantage of women are in a bubble that makes it easier.
Perhaps dorm rooms should be off-limits to the opposite sex. Instead, there will be a hall of official consensual-sex rooms for those who choose to engage in such activities. The hall monitor will verify college ID and ask if the person entering the rooms is doing so willingly. Condoms on the nightstand in every room.
I remember George Will saying something about colleges making being a victim a coveted status. That seems to be the case here. It's also the reason NY Mag doesn't give any details. No details, no judgement of the facts.
The perfect is the enemy of the good. The "good" was due process, the perfect is absolute justice administered by some God who perfectly accepts your values and knows everything that happened.
Throwing out due process in search of the perfect is a recipe for a totalitarian state. How long will it be, after all, before a bad actor figures out that he can throw enemies in prison for newly invented and retroactively applied "laws" which are actually undemocratically imposed social norms?
Any man that is interested in her would need a 30 page pre-nuptual Agreement.
She wants to hurt men. Not that there is anything wrong with that in a feminist's eyes.
an air mattress would be much more convenient. I wonder if that's what she means. It would certainly be a lot more practical, otherwise I doubt her ability to drag a Sealy twin from the dorm room to the elevator, let alone to drag it across campus all day much less year.
And it's certainly considerate for the next guy that comes along. No need to lie on the floor or mess up a desk. Didn't geishas of old travel with a folding futon for this very purpose?
I applaud her using her life to shape her art. Isn't that what artists do?
I don't think she can make a living from her art however.
Exactly Nichevo!
Carrying around a mattress does not exactly signal the woman is anti-rape but rather that she is ready for action anywhere and anytime.
I don't think AA got the discussion she was looking for (or "for which she was looking"). The commenter is hysterical, in the classic sense. MLK is a better comparison on a number of levels.
My Mattress is an Honor Student.
I can see a lot of gray areas here but sooner or later one of these "alleged rapists" is going to turn out to be a "a suit happy alleged rapist" from a wealthy family. With proof that the relationship was consensual.
Winter is coming and when that mattress gets wet its going to weigh a ton.
Why doesn't she get one of those super light, roll up, back packing pads? Carrying the mattress is symbolic anyway. She could just strap it to her day pack.
There are some really good ones, not too expensive, available thru the Althouse Portal.
I guess she is lucky she wasn't raped in the back seat of a car.
I'm pretty sure that Jesus never had a crucifix.
We used to know rape when we found it. Now we have to ask, what kind of rape? In their zeal to bludgeon all men the feminists have neutered their weapon. The odds are good that this woman consented with a small but non-negligible chance she was assaulted. Travesty or tragedy, both rooted in the women's studies department.
I don't think we know enough as to whether this woman was raped. What we do know is she accused someone on campus of rape, the school hasn't expelled him, and now she's carrying around a mattress because something something rape culture?
Far be it from me to tell someone else what to do, as I've never been raped, but it would seem if I were the victim of any violent crime committed on campus by another student or otherwise, I would take this to the police and press charges. If the police won't act for a good reason (lack of evidence) or a bad one (not enough police resources because they had to arrest a guy for buying a Big Gulp), then take it up with the authorities, not the campus courts.
What serious person could say that rape allegations--a crime for which people get put in jail for life--can be responsibly adjudicated by students and faculty? If you think that is appropriate then you don't take rape seriously and you ought to stand back and let the adults take charge for a change.
There's never a Simon of Cyrene around when you need one.
from a comment:
If you're a man at college stay in your room and go to class only. If you want a future in America, don't hang out with drunk women ever, they're just like suicide bombers waiting to explode...
Her point is that she was raped (or believed she was raped) and the mattress is to shame the school into taking not action but a SPECIFIC action: expelling the student.
This puts the college in a poor (PR) position (which they might rightly deserve): continued 'mattress' news by doing nothing, authorizing a (new?) investigation that will inevitably be viewed as falling short or equivocating, or they take the easy (and quick) way out and expel the student.
The protest then determines the punishment, not the crime. Thus: new crime scene is created.
The perfect is the enemy of the good. The "good" was due process, the perfect is absolute justice administered by some God who perfectly accepts your values and knows everything that happened.
Indeed. Rape, particularly between people who knew each other and if there was no physical violence, is really hard to prove. Which is why women should be careful, because perfect justice is an illusion.
As for the mattress thing, it must be really, really cheap to be light enough that she can actually carry it around regularly. I can't imagine thinking that was a good idea.
Re: "As for the mattress thing, it must be really, really cheap to be light enough that she can actually carry it around regularly. I can't imagine thinking that was a good idea."
Soon other female students will take turns carrying it to show unity, but also to give her rest breaks. Eventually, beta males that want to get laid by sensitive chicks.
"Have you carried the mattress today?"
Going by the comments so far, as an art project, it's very successful.
If she was really raped she'd go to the police.
If schools were in the habit of expelling merely on an accusation being made, this would create an easy to abuse situation:
That guy who was blowing the curve in calculus; he raped me. Boom! That B just became an A!
"I didn’t report it at first because I didn’t feel like dealing with the emotional trauma."
If your personal sovereignty has been violated, then you have the duty to report it.
Big Mike said...
If she was really raped she'd go to the police.
Maybe she's in the Mafia. Then she wouldn't be going to the police, she'd be going to the mattresses
Going by the comments so far, as an art project, it's very successful.
Agreed. She needs to figure out how to monetize it. Perhaps she can parlay it into a lucrative job at a Outrage/Grievance center.
Of course if universities did things the way they did in *my* antediluvian days--men's and women's dorms located on separate ends of campus, NO mixed dorms, NO women allowed to visit in men;s dorms, strict curfew for women, etc.,--we wouldn't be having the "rape culture" bit, would we? But we've "progressed" so much since then, right? GOT to give the feministas their "equal rights", right? *Progress* indeed.. Things are SO much better now..
Notice that they didn't mention how -- in her Women's Studies class -- female students who are raped on campus get extra credit for the semester?
I'm really sorry that something bad happened to her (assuming that it did), but I really wonder what people in her position want to have the system do. There was a hearing and both parties got to tell their story. No other witnesses or physical evidence was mentioned in the Time article, so I assume that those did not exist, and the hearing officers applied their best judgement to the respective stories.
Do they really want a system where a person would be kicked out of school based on a single complaint which is automatically believed? Do they understand that this would be a bad system for so many reasons, and that we have a criminal justice system with a presumption of innocence for a reason? I'm sympathetic that she believes her story and wants others to believe her, but objectively, does she understand that there are really good reasons why that can't be the system we work under?
The fact is, sometimes bad things are done, and there is simply no way to prove that one person was responsible, even if they actually were. It's sad, but the alternative (as a system) would be worse.
Betamax3000: "Perhaps all dorm bedrooms should be equipped with a camera to record potential crimes"
Perhaps it's time to introduce a new character along the lines of "Neighborhood Avenger" such as "Unofficial Dorm Room Monitor".
betamax3000 said...
Notice that they didn't mention how -- in her Women's Studies class -- female students who are raped on campus get extra credit for the semester?
You always get more of what you subsidize.
MadisonMan: " Perhaps she can parlay it into a lucrative job at a Outrage/Grievance center."
Universities are already "Outrage/Grievance Centers".
To create a separate O/G Center within a larger O/G Center would be redundant.
On second thought, that's perfect!
Jesus carried his Cross as a way to symbolically demand that other people be punished for their sins?
I think the commenter has got a sign error.
Lyssa, that is exactly the problem. Nobody is saying rapists should be free to do whatever they want, or that accusations of rape shouldn't be taken seriously (in my view by actual law enforcement authorities rather that schools), but the fact that so many on the left seem to be fine with dispensing with due process because "too many rapists go free" should be troubling. Interestingly, these activists are also often the same people saying that too many blacks are railroaded by the justice system--never mind that blacks are disproportionately accused of rape, so denying due process for accused rapists is more likely to railroad more black men than before. This is leftism collapsing in on itself.
The problem with prosecuting rape is that usually the only physical evidence happens to also be evidence of consensual sex--merely proving there was intercourse isn't enough to prove rape--and the case will come down to witness testimony. Because the rapist is often someone the victim already knew, it becomes harder to testify against that person, and worse, the defense can grill the accuser in a way that can be far more uncomfortable than it would be with other types of crimes. As a result, accusers often back down from testifying, or drop the charges.
It's unfortunate, and sickening, that this means some rapists will go free. But the legal safeguards for the accused are important in any free society. If we want more successful rape prosecutions, it will have to be through better police work and determined accusers, not through discarding legal protections that keep our society free.
Drago said...
"...Perhaps it's time to introduce a new character along the lines of "Neighborhood Avenger" such as "Unofficial Dorm Room Monitor"."
Great idea; unfortunately I think I'm putting the characters to rest for awhile. Betamax3000 is tired of Betamax3000. Might be mood, might be time to be an idiot elsewhere, I don't know.
Shanna said: Rape, particularly between people who knew each other and if there was no physical violence, is really hard to prove. Which is why women should be careful, because perfect justice is an illusion.
Right. Perfect justice is an illusion for every crime, not just rape.
I heard a feminist the other day say, about the whole date-rape nail polish flap, that the polish was objectionable because she didn't want to live in a world where you have to worry about date-rape drugs. Well, of course, no one does. We also don't want to live in a world where you have to worry about murder, theft, disease, poverty, starvation, war, etc.
But we don't get that choice. We can, and should, do a lot to try to reduce those things as a society, but we can't rely on that to protect ourselves.
Betamax3000: "Might be mood, might be time to be an idiot elsewhere, I don't know."
The creative process is often times a mystery.
Or is it all the time?
Or is it none of the time?
Where the hell is that sweet and sour sauce?
Betamax3000, I know you are thinking of shelving your characters for a bit, but why not just take them into a different direction?
For instance, since the "War on Women" nonsense is so topical, perhaps you could "channel" "Ghost of Ted Kennedy says..." or "Inner Bill Clinton Psyche says...."?
"...might be time to be an idiot elsewhere..."
NYET!
Interesting reading the article.
The details make it clear why the police won't touch it and why the university can't either.
It seems as per her testimony that the boy did have sex with her previously, was having consensual sex with her during the incident, but then proceeded to very rough sex.
It also seems like the boy has a reputation for this sort of thing.
It seems impossible to prosecute this, and I imagine, not being a lawyer, that the university would be vulnerable to a lawsuit if it expels the boy.
In a traditional view of the matter, as a question of honor rather than law, for the purpose of family and clan based retribution, she has also lost her claim because she was willingly having sex with him.
Which leaves purely informal recourse. Sadly our modern world is not rich in these options. In the old days the other village girls would have warned each other away from him, made it difficult to make a good match, made him an embarrassment to his own family, and made life otherwise difficult.
Brando and several others have mentioned that the "artist" should have reported the rape to the police. Why does the article say she "... had trouble convincing the police ..." instead of saying whether she did or didn't report it, and what the results of her report were? As someone else said, I suspect the details don't fit the writer's preferred narrative.
"Perhaps dorm rooms should be off-limits to the opposite sex. Instead, there will be a hall of official consensual-sex rooms for those who choose to engage in such activities. The hall monitor will verify college ID and ask if the person entering the rooms is doing so willingly. Condoms on the nightstand in every room."
We've "progressed" to the point that I think this is a good idea.
Justice for a rape isn't expulsion.
If her alleged attacker raped her, justice is a long prison term. Anything less than that is not justice. And the fact she's seeking less than might imply that her alleged attacker did not, in fact, rape her.
Note that this sort of thing is very much an American sort of controversy. Elsewhere universities have no conception of in loco parentis and no responsibility for the private behavior of their students. It seems to me it would be best for all if in loco parentis were abandoned.
@betamax -- The NYPD has jurisdiction over every square inch of Columbia. If the alleged crime wasn't reported to the NYPD, it's not Columbia's fault.
Let's not forget about or overlook the British artist Tracey Emin, who exhibited her bed and won a Turner Prize. Two Chinese guys jumped onto it, to "improve" it. Not sure how Emin feels about this, though usually she's pretty quick with her mouth (so to speak).
Brian wins. Of course when Jesus carried the cross it was to insist on noncriminal penalties being imposed on alleged felons.
Because the rapist is often someone the victim already knew
I do think it's odd how many of these cases involve people who were dating or clearly in some sort of 'friends with benefits' relationship. Rape is possible in that kind of a situation, sure, but I think it's odd that there are so many of them.
None of these are the old school scary stranger type attacks, these are all sketchy he said/she said situations and honestly, unless they have good evidence of some kind I can see why the police would not prosecute.
Do they really want a system where a person would be kicked out of school based on a single complaint which is automatically believed? Do they understand that this would be a bad system for so many reasons
@Lyssa, I think the people who insist that something be done regardless of evidence cannot conceive of a system where this will ever effect them. They think the victims of this type of injustice will always be others. Of, being charitable, if they were truly raped they think it is justice and the way of reaching it does not really matter. This is vigilante justice done through the university, basically.
Gee, George Will was so far off base, huh? Should have fired the old white man, he obviously doesn't understand the modern university and feminism/progressivism.
The hall monitor will verify college ID and ask if the person entering the rooms is doing so willingly. Condoms on the nightstand in every room.
Nice try, but no--consent can be withdrawn at any time (even, seemingly, after the fact), that withdrawal does not need to be verbalized, and if you take indications like "wanted to go to the consensual sex room" as evidence that the person likely consented to an activity she later says she did not consent to, well, you're perpetuating the rape culture. If she decides at any time (during or after) that she no longer fully consents, boom, it's rape. That the activity might occur in a special room will not save you from the charges.
Matresses are heavy. How far does she plan on travelling every day while lugging a mattress around.
On the upside, if she ever gets tired she can drop the mattress on the ground and then has a great place to take a nap.
"Perhaps dorm rooms should be off-limits to the opposite sex."
OMG !
Back to my college days when there was no rape !
We can't have that !
I wonder if the commenter actually knows Jesus was not able to carry the cross Himself and the Roman soldiers conducting the execution pressed someone else in service to carry it.
"I heard a feminist the other day say, about the whole date-rape nail polish flap, that the polish was objectionable because she didn't want to live in a world where you have to worry about date-rape drugs. Well, of course, no one does. We also don't want to live in a world where you have to worry about murder, theft, disease, poverty, starvation, war, etc."
We are now living in a world where people can oppose any device or tactic that may empower women to prevent rape, and these people can still call themselves "feminists."
I guess "feminism" now means waiting for men to change their rape culture, and too bad for any rape victims that have to be sacrificial lambs for this greater cause.
buwaya puti said...
Note that this sort of thing is very much an American sort of controversy. Elsewhere universities have no conception of in loco parentis and no responsibility for the private behavior of their students. It seems to me it would be best for all if in loco parentis were abandoned.
Your heart's in the right place but I'm afraid you're not getting it, buwaya. The goal is to use institutional power to bend others to your will and/or worldview. Thus when it's convenient to be seen as a victim and use the power of the administration/university law you'll do that. When it's convenient to claim to be independent and some rules that would restrict a freedom or liberty about which you actually care get in the way you call those rules patriarchal or antiprogressive or not sex positive.
If the university treated these matters as alleged crimes to be handled by actual law enforcement the alleged perpetrators would be accorded their actual legal rights in the criminal justice system. That obviously won't do. I don't think many people object to universities having codes of conduct and enforcing their rules. When those codes are used to adjudicate what are clearly criminal justice matters, though, the question becomes WHY, and the obvious answer is because that serves the needs of the group in question. Progressives/campus feminists don't have to be logically (or morally) consistent, they're just exercising power.
betamax3000: "Don't want to derail Althouse's post, so some thoughts here."
Keep us updated.
Would love to read your one shot open mic night material when you get around to posting it.
I've been tempted to steal most of your stuff anyway and try it out on some open mic night in some far off locale.
I don't doubt that she had a sour experience of some type, but the self dramatizing, self aggrandizing way in which she is acting out her pain leads me to the opinion that her psyche was not irreparably damaged.......All of these war on women stories seem especially self indulgent when compared to the botched way those sex crimes were handled in England. She's probably already received more press coverage and sympathy than those 1400 girls in England combined.
Is it OK for a college student to accuse another of stealing her computer three years before? Calling a tribunal? Asking for the expulsion of the thief?
If not, why not?
Just to clarify, does carrying a mattress mean No, or Yes?
Lyssa said...
Do they really want a system where a person would be kicked out of school based on a single complaint which is automatically believed?
Why yes some of them do. Others would say they don't but when it comes down to cases they always go in one direction. Due process is not in vogue in the modern academy. It takes some courage to stand up for it nowadays.
Lyssa,
Your original thought was way too broad (pun intended):
They want a system where HE would be kicked out of school based on a single complaint which is automatically believed.
Performance art?
Maybe the guy was just doing performance art?
Or maybe he didn't actually do it?
These people who object to drug-detecting nail polish as a "we shouldn't have to do this!" measure:
Do they have locks on their doors?
"These people who object to drug-detecting nail polish as a "we shouldn't have to do this!" measure: Do they have locks on their doors?"
I'm sure they also object to women learning self defense.
I get of course that it's a sad state of affairs that women have to worry about a lot of things men don't thanks to creeps--if I get blackout drunk, bad things will happen but I don't realistically worry about being raped, and same goes for having my drink drugged. This does indeed suck for women, and changing this is a worthwhile goal.
But what's so wrong in the meantime about women taking charge of their safety, and not accepting drinks from strangers that they didn't see being poured, or looking out for one another when they're at a strange party, or learning to protect themselves physically? A few more creeps getting foiled would if anything help change things for the better.
Anally raped but chooses to report through the school channels rather than to the police? I thought Columbia was a place for smart people.
There's something to be said for people, certain people anyhow, starting to carry around emblems of their state of mind. Think how much improved the college scene would be if all the women who agree with the feminists carried a huge pair of shears around with them. Then the men would know what to expect. Papers could be served on the men friends even before any act took place and even whether or not one did, because a man is a lustbag to a feminist and when a lustbag even speaks, he rapes. (They know this Saudi Arabia and the IS and there they promptly flog the two of them.)
And the men of a certain type could carry a board with a hole in it around with them. Then we'd know the woman consented to be an object if she got in bed with one of them, so no question about consent would arise no matter what happened. It would just be frisky, risky adults.
And some could carry a prom queen dress; and some a picture of a tsunami, meaning "my greatness overwhelms me."
See how good this would be?
And the others could carry a question mark and the question marks could get together and get on with getting to know each other.
You know, somebody should just run ads promoting the alleged rate of college rape and just ask why a parent would send their daughter to a place where she is more likely to be raped than if she was living in the most dangerous city in America.
I mean, COLLEGES are saying 1/5 of their women are raped. No city has a record anywhere near that bad.
Now we have to ask, what kind of rape?
Indeed. Drugged anal violation of an underage girl? Not rape-rape, obviously.
Do they really want a system where a person would be kicked out of school based on a single complaint which is automatically believed? Do they understand that this would be a bad system for so many reasons, and that we have a criminal justice system with a presumption of innocence for a reason? I'm sympathetic that she believes her story and wants others to believe her, but objectively, does she understand that there are really good reasons why that can't be the system we work under?
If men start filing charges after all drunken sexual acts, feminists would be really pissed if girls were tossed on such flimsy evidence.
@Madman (10:01) here's a girl carrying around a mattress and you wonder how she can monetize it?
I know I shouldn't say this, but her mode of dress doesn't make me very sympathetic to her case. I also know I am old as hell, but her clothing in the photo seems a bit like an invitation to the dance.
A related article on the alleged rape here: http://bwog.com/2014/05/16/emma-sulkowicz-files-police-report-for-sexual-assault/
She did file rape accusation charges with the university, and the university dismissed the charges. She then filed charges with the NYPD, and there was no indictment of the alleged perp.
At the end of the day, it boiled down to 'he said, she said' and little more. That's not enough to convict (or even try the case).
My advice to college guys. Townies.
I, for one, will miss our Robot overlord.
I, for one, will miss our Robot overlord.
And I, the conversations of James and Rutherford.
CatherineM wrote: NY Mag doesn't give any details. No details, no judgement of the facts.
From the linked article: "Though she and two other students reported that the same student had assaulted them, all of their claims were swept under the rug, and the male student was not expelled from campus."
Swept under the jug sounds judgmental to me.
Referring to the original alleged sexual assault, the ostensible victim had engaged in consensual sex with the offender twice before. On the night in question, she and the offender were again engaging in consensual sexual intercourse, when the offender allegedly struck her, and forcibly had anal intercourse with her while she told him "No, no!" This occurred in August of 2012. She told no other person, and first reported the alleged attack in April of 2013, so as a practical matter, I think proving the attack is an impossibility unless the offender simply admitted it, which he did not. He claimed all sex was consensual. There are no independent witnesses, and obviously, no physical evidence. So, I'm not sure what anyone can expect either police or university to do. The victim put herself in a dangerous position, then never contemporaneously told a single person or made a single note, never complained to anyone in or out of authority for at least 8 months, made no attempt to seek medical attention or preserve evidence, and in fact created with her own inaction a situation wherein no one can prove or disprove the allegations. Now she seems to feel she is the victim of some kind of official neglect and nonfeasance. She needs to look in the mirror. I'm certain that - aside from herself - the most unhappy with the inability to determine the truth are the cops and prosecutors, who now have to live with the possibility that a potential rapist is walking around free, or that someone potentially crying wolf is free to do again. Very unsatisfactory.
The bit I can't get over is this:
This is an approved senior thesis at an ivy league school.
She's going to receive a degree from Columbia -- for carrying a mattress around as a publicity stunt.
This is an education people mortgage their futures to pay for? There's something very, very wrong here.
This reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where Kramer carries the post man dummy around with a bucket on his head: Why does the postal dummy have a bucket on his head? Because we are blind to his tyrrany. Shouldn't you have the bucket on your head?
Seriously I imagine that Columbia has Coed dorms probably coed rooms - so can a University do this when there are so many problems?
From the linked article: "Though she and two other students reported that the same student had assaulted them, all of their claims were swept under the rug, and the male student was not expelled from campus."
Other articles have pointed out that one of these students complained that the perpetrator was emotionally manipulative. The other that the perpetrator tried to kiss her in a basement party and she rebuffed him.
Ms. Sulkowicz waited almost a year to attempt to file charges and even waits until she is done with her finals! The accused rapist claims the sexual encounter was consensual.
Seems that the accused rapist may have a fairly strong case for defamation.
OK, on reflection the symbolism of the mattress seems at odds with what I think is the purported message.
Some random guy thinking, "Gee I sure would like to have me some sex" and a girl passes by carrying a mattress. Why wouldn't he think she is advertising, available and willing?
She's a skunk who loves the attention. She has mental issues, and isn't at all believable. I hope the man sues her for every cent, if she ever makes any.
I meant "skank", but close enough.
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