"She was met with roars of approval, which one Detroit critic said he presumed had come from 'the arsonists, looters and snipers in the audience.' Another critic, however, wrote that her show let white people know what they had to learn, and learn fast. Was she the voice of national tragedy or of the next American revolution?"
From "A Raised Voice/How Nina Simone turned the movement into music." The concert described above took place on August 13, 1967. The quote — "I love you, Detroit — you did it!" — came right after the song "Just In Time." (You know that song: "Now you're here/And now I know just where I'm going/No more doubt or fear/I've found my way...")
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१२८ टिप्पण्या:
You simply cannot underestimate the moral cluelessness and depravity of your average Liberal Leftist.
I find it ironic that in response to offenses real or imagined, the go to response of the black community is to burn down their own neighborhoods.
Brilliant.
How that work out for them?
The race riots that erupting over anger at MLK being shot down in April, 1968 were intended to happen by the people who assassinated him.
The interesting thing about the replay being staged in Missouri is that Rand Paul is using it as more leverage to pry black voters out of the Democrat's camp. I believe Paul can do it.
Race riots, "you did it!", white flight.
Now white flight's to blame for the collapse of the city/tax base.
You did it, indeed.
If Rand Paul tries to cynically use this, it will only backfire.
Repubs need a mea culpa on race.
During the LA riots you should have seen the limousine leftists of Bel Air and Beverly Hills streaming down to LAX in a solid line of Mercedes, Rolls and the occasional Beemer jammed with designer luggage.
It looked like the evacuation of Kuwait with marginally better personal hygiene.
The ones who stayed spent the night shooting up their own backyards and angrily calling their neighborhood security firms to know why we didn't have shotguns. They were convinced the brown hordes were going to head straight up Stone Canyon road after the 1%.
We comforted them by explaining that as long as they didn't live about a liqupr story or a Best Buy they were probably safe.
her show let white people know what they had to learn, and learn fast
And the lesson learned was "move the hell out of Detroit". :)
Dad worked the race riot detail in Detroit in 1943? 1944? Just before shipping overseas for WWII.
Everything old was new again in 1967 too.
If Rand Paul tries to cynically use this, it will only backfire.
Paul has been criticizing the militarization of law enforcement, and the disproportionate harm it does to black Americans, for quite a while now.
Of course, the whole schtick may be motivated by cynicism, but I doubt it. Criticizing law enforcement is a risky move for someone hoping to win the Republican nomination in 2016.
"Paul has been criticizing the militarization of law enforcement, and the disproportionate harm it does to black Americans, for quite a while now.
Of course, the whole schtick may be motivated by cynicism, but I doubt it. Criticizing law enforcement is a risky move for someone hoping to win the Republican nomination in 2016."
Very much agreed. He really does seem sincere, just as he is in his opposition to foreign occupations by US military. (Sadly, these two issues don't seem so unrelated as we once thought).
One lesson that never seems to be learned:
"This is why we can't have nice things".
Who will want to put up a new business in Ferguson, Mo.?
Maybe when there's not a virulent police dept. harassing citizens the place will be better. Good point Willers.
The Blacks in Detroit really showed The Man. He still hasn't recovered.
And the lesson learned was "move the hell out of Detroit". :)
Yeah, worked beautifully, that did. Have you seen the tumbler that shows the destruction of neighborhoods and property over time in Detroit using I think google street view? Very sad.
Yeah. Detroit really, really did it...
harrogate said...
Maybe when there's not a virulent police dept. harassing citizens the place will be better. Good point Willers.
8/14/14, 3:48 PM
So it was cops looting the quick-stop and setting it on fire, and looting the tire center for rims and struggling to throw garbage cans through a bus stop shelter? Wonder what might happen if all the cops just left Ferguson right now. Utopia, right?
I find it ironic that in response to offenses real or imagined, the go to response of the black community is to burn down their own neighborhoods.
Be fair: we don't import enough Palestinians so we have to grow our own.
So it was cops looting the quick-stop and setting it on fire, and looting the tire center for rims and struggling to throw garbage cans through a bus stop shelter
No, but it was the police illegally arresting people for filming them, the police firing tear gas at reporters to stop them from filming, the police arresting people for the crime of sitting in a McDonald's, the police saying they can't be held responsible for the safety of peaceful protesters, etc.
This isn't about police vs. criminals. This is about criminals with badges vs. criminals without badges, with large numbers of innocent people stuck in the middle.
MLK had a goal, an objective, a cause with an endpoint. His actions and activities are judged on how they brought him closer to his goal. I truly don't understand what the picture at the end looks like for the rioters (and Crack, for that matter). If it's to not be "disrespected," how does this connect to that? If it's to be not stopped by the police without cause, how does this connect to that?
Those who do not wish to be stereotyped should not involve themselves in stereotypical behavior.
Like many great artists Nina Simone did not know as much as she thought she knew.
Those who do not wish to be stereotyped should not involve themselves in stereotypical behavior.
Are you talking about the rioters, or the police? :)
I love the song "Sinner Man".
Reading the article, I have to agree that Zoe Saldana doesn't seem right to play Nina Simone.
Jennifer Hudson would be better because she's actually a singer with some dynamic range, but I think she's lined up to play Aretha Franklin in her biopic. (Holy crap, Jennifer Hudson has lost a lot of weight.)
Coolest thing I found while thinking about this: Mariah Carey's 5 Octave range.
Are you talking about the rioters, or the police? :)
No reason it can't be both.
Kevin,
"You simply cannot underestimate the moral cluelessness and depravity of your average Liberal Leftist."
Charlie,
"How that work out for them?"
And on they go, each racist as smug as they are wrong - from guy who wrote a "book" - which you geniuses have never opened before speaking:
We can't lay the blame for the persistence of urban poverty on the social programs of the 1960s. The conservative argument being that the Great Society unleashed welfare dependency and exacerbated the problem of poverty. That we really need to look at a combination of forces that were transforming the American urban landscape unheralded as early as the 1940s and 1950s. Three forces transformed American cities in this period. One was the flight of jobs, capital flight, and you see this certainly in this area and in Detroit and many other parts of the country and the rotting hulks of giant factory buildings that have been abandoned by industry over the last half century or so. So, the loss of jobs is one. Second, is persistent racial discrimination in the workplace. Despite the gains of the Civil Rights Movement, which were consequential and important, despite the opening of job opportunities to African Americans there still remained persistent and really frustrating discrimination across industries that had a significant impact on the economic opportunities of blacks, in particular. And the third, and this remains in some ways the most vexing and unresolved problem in race relations in 20th-century America, is residential segregation by race. And there remains in most Northern cities a degree of residential separation between blacks and whites that would have made the architects of Jim Crow in the South happy. That is, the vast majority of whites live in all white communities, the vast majority of African Americans live in African-American communities that have been subject to depopulation and disinvestment. The story of segregation was one that I knew about in the abstract, but wasn't really able to get at the inner workings of the process of segregation through my research in Detroit. And I found it was a combination of government policy, that is, federal subsidies to whites who were moving to the suburbs and to developers who were building communities for whites in suburban areas. The actions of real estate brokers who played a crucial role in stirring up fears of racial integration among white homeowners and an enormous grass-roots movement of working-class and middle-class whites who fought intensely to preserve the racial homage in 80 of their neighborhoods. So, in Detroit in this period—and I've subsequently through research found that this is true for many other cities in the North as well—there was an intense pattern of violent attacks on the first blacks to move into formally white neighborhoods. I found through digging, you know, rooting through all sorts of obscure records that there were more than 200 violent incidents in Detroit between the mid-forties and mid-sixties targeted against the first black families to move into formally all white neighborhoods. And so there was grass-roots resistance that drew invisible lines of race on the city's landscape and enforced them both to protest in political action but also through window breaking, arson, and attacks on black homeowners.
Y'all's evil.
The "five day riot that left forty-three people dead, hundreds injured, and the city in ruins" had no effect on "white flight" you guys! The response to that riot, which is of course the topic of this post, is completely irrelevant to the future course of Detroit history. Stop being so damn smug.
Lee Kwan Yew imposed order on Singapore with tactics, and often a degree of injustice, that would make the Ferguson PD seem benevolent.
The difference is the people and their reaction to attempts to establish or maintain order. From experience around the world -
the police can misbehave, and the business climate is fine, but if the people riot it is not.
Is Radical Chic a thing once again?
Revenant said...
"Those who do not wish to be stereotyped should not involve themselves in stereotypical behavior."
Are you talking about the rioters, or the police? :)
Compared to the Michigan National Guard, the police were models of decorum. The ill trained and ill led Guard fired off over 150,000 rounds during the 12th Street Riot, and their area of patrol was a war zone for over a week. In contrast the federal troops were on patrol with unloaded guns, but their area of patrol was largely peaceful. The difference was training and discipline.
The raid that precipitated (not caused) the riot was a Detroit police raid on an illegal club on 12th Street. The raid was pretty much unnecessary, as it was not going to change anything in the 12th Street sin strip, nor were the arrests likely to result in any convictions. It was a little bit of theatre that had been acted and reenacted hundreds of times. But this time the blacks did not play their role of resentful but compliant, and things got tragically out of hand.
The riot killed 43 people (9 white, 33 black, ages 4-82), turned white flight into a stampede, eventually placed corrupt and inept black machine politicians in charge of the city (this was coming but it came sooner) and cemented the black-white polarization in the city.
.
But Nina Simone was correct to see the riot as something meaningful. The blacks had refused to play their role. This was as much a rebellion as a riot, and as a rebellion it succeeded in changing the city. Unfortunately those changes were detrimental to everyone, black and white.
Nina Simone was a genuine radical, not just a comfortable celebrity making an offhand political comment with no self consequence. Her radicalism undermined her career and lead to her self banishment first to Barbados (where she became the Prime Minister's lover) and then to Holland and France. She gets credit for walking the walk and not just talking the talk.
The area around the riot is now typical Detroit. Many vacant lots, a few urban renewal type housing projects, ill maintained and vacant older housing and all the businesses gone. There is no heart or soul left to the place.
The old 12th Street has been renamed. With no apparent sense of irony or discomfort, they have called this hollowed out husk of the past Rosa Parks Boulevard.
Crack - you're evil.
Cops are a blunt instrument of order. They're not there to further refine the nuances of the 1st, 4th, and 5th amendments. If up you interact with them in a tense situation, there's a good chance you're not going to leave as a satisfied customer......Some businesses got looted or burned down. Some employees of those businesses lost their jobs. Some cops gots rocks and Molotov cocktails thrown at them. Some reporters got handcuffed and detained for a few hours. If you had to rank these affronts and injustices, which one is the worst and which is the least? Which one do you think the Prez ranked highest.
Let me quote Coleman A. Young's autobiography on the effects of the 1967 riot:
"The heaviest casualty, however, was the city. Detroit's losses went a hell of a lot deeper than the immediate toll of lives and buildings. The riot put Detroit on the fast track to economic desolation, mugging the city and making off with incalculable value in jobs, earnings taxes, corporate taxes, retail dollars, sales taxes, mortgages, interest, property taxes, development dollars, investment dollars, tourism dollars, and plain damn money. The money was carried out in the pockets of the businesses and the white people who fled as fast as they could. The white exodus from Detroit had been prodigiously steady prior to the riot, totaling twenty-two thousand in 1966, but afterwards it was frantic. In 1967, with less than half the year remaining after the summer explosion—the outward population migration reached sixty-seven thousand. In 1968 the figure hit eighty-thousand, followed by forty-six thousand in 1969."
But, hey, I'll take the Crack Emcee's word for it that Mayor Young was just a smug evil lying racist.
Cops are a blunt instrument of order.
That is what they *are*, not what they are paid to be -- and certainly not what they are constitutionally allowed to be.
If you can't handle police work without acting like a thug, get a real fuckin' job.
If you had to rank these affronts and injustices, which one is the worst and which is the least?
The point isn't that one is worse than the other. The point is that all of them are unjustified criminal activity.
If I decided to slam a cop to the ground, handcuff him, and lock him in my closet for a few hours, what do you think would happen? Let me give you a hint: I'd be arrested for assault and kidnapping. Because it turns out you aren't allowed to just jump someone and restrain them any time you feel like it, just because they didn't "respect your authoritah".
The people who threw rocks and molotovs at the police should be arrested, prosecuted, and sent to prison. So should the people who burned and looted buildings. And so should the police who assaulted and arrested news crews and civilians standing on their own front lawns.
Police aren't a special class of person. They are not above the law.
Unknown,
"MLK had a goal, an objective, a cause with an endpoint,...I truly don't understand what the picture at the end looks like for the rioters (and Crack, for that matter)"
Boy, it doesn't get much more clueless than this:
He understands MLK, he says, but not the rest of us.
Are you sure you understand Martin Luther King?
Crack, if you asked any Jew in the Warsaw Ghetto they would have only wanted to left to live out their lives in peace. They had no desire for supremacy over Germans or any other people. But you just don't get it.
richard mcenroe,
"I find it ironic that in response to offenses real or imagined, the go to response of the black community is to burn down their own neighborhoods."
Ha!
"Their own neighborhoods."
Is that what you call living in a place where nobody owns anything?
"Their own"?
Man, you guys are stuuuuu-pid!
averagejoe,
"So it was cops looting the quick-stop and setting it on fire, and looting the tire center for rims and struggling to throw garbage cans through a bus stop shelter? Wonder what might happen if all the cops just left Ferguson right now. Utopia, right?"
I'm glad to find at least one white person who will openly admit he thinks that whatever can be found at a "Quick-Stop" or a tire store is equal in worth to killing black Americans.
Now events make *perfect* sense.
No, no - whites aren't racist - not at all,...
Michael,
"Those who do not wish to be stereotyped should not involve themselves in stereotypical behavior."
In a country that has labeled blacks as lazy, criminal, stupid, untrustworthy, dirty, and pretty much anything else bad one can think of, how - exactly - do you suggest blacks not involve ourselves in "stereotypical behavior" when it's only whites who've ever delusionally seen these things?
One of these days, you guys are going to admit - "You know what, white people, we fucked up!" and you're going to feel a whole lot better.
Stupid - especially when you read what you believe now - but better.
I promise,....
David,
"The riot killed 43 people (9 white, 33 black, ages 4-82), turned white flight into a stampede,..."
So I was right - now from two sources:
Whites were already being racist before the riots started and THAT is the cause of Detroit's demise.
Keep laughing, white people:
The truth's coming out and you're the bad guys - right up to my writing this,...
Steven,
"The white exodus from Detroit had been prodigiously steady prior to the riot,..."
Three sources - Racists.
Everybody still laughing?
Y'all's evil.
Wrong again. The actual evils are folks like Al Sharpton, who get all huffy when a young black man is killed by a white police office, but refuse to provide any leadership or criticism of an inner-city culture that has literally thousands of young black men killed by other young black men.
Because, why, then he'd be a 'Tom', and to the Cracks if the world, being a 'Tom' is too high a price to pay for a few thousand young black men.
That's what's evil. Not a bunch of anonymous commenters pointing out the obvious that you long to ignore.
Alex ,
"Crack, if you asked any Jew in the Warsaw Ghetto they would have only wanted to left to live out their lives in peace. They had no desire for supremacy over Germans or any other people. But you just don't get it."
And you hear a desire for supremacy on the part of blacks - because we're ending the white supremacy we live with now?
Where?
I can point out white supremacy - look at the comments, starting with Kevin. The black community is "brilliant" in comparison to white society which doesn't burn anything. It's clearly better.
Charlie thinks things didn't "work out" for blacks - all their own fault - conveniently leaving out all the whites, who held all the money and power, as well as the poor white citizens who acted as neighborhood terrorists to blacks. The fact white terrorism and violence did "work out" for whites is proof to Charlie whites are clearly better.
I can't fuck with Tg, but you get my drift:
You guys can't speak without asserting white supremacy - it's in your bones - and it's as wrong as Hitler was.
I thought you knew that,...
Pookie Number 2,
"Wrong again. The actual evils are folks like Al Sharpton, who get all huffy when a young black man is killed by a white police office, but refuse to provide any leadership or criticism of an inner-city culture that has literally thousands of young black men killed by other young black men."
Pookie Number 2, if you don't give a damn about the one black kid we're up in arms about - just like you didn't give a shit about the others who have been killed since Trayvon - what makes you think anyone will buy that you care for any more?
You played yourself.
"Why, then he'd be a 'Tom', and to the Cracks if the world, being a 'Tom' is too high a price to pay for a few thousand young black men."
Because it means betraying black people - for whites.
Fuck. You.
"That's what's evil."
No, oppressing people for 400 years through violence, rape and murder - and then trying to find black agents to betray the group once they're free of you - that's evil.
And will never be me.
"Not a bunch of anonymous commenters pointing out the obvious that you long to ignore."
You couldn't spot the obvious if it was your dick,...
Just the other day another white senior citizen in NY got punched by a blah thug for no reason and wound up in the hospital with a blood clot on his brain. And Al Sharpton said nothing. Nor did whites riot and start targeting blacks. Crack, you think us whites should be a punching bag for black people's rage? You think stores should simply allow themselves to be burned down because of the actions of some random white cop? you think Reginald Denny, who' s only crime was driving a truck through a neighborhood! should have his head bashed by a cinder block by some black though! simpy because he's pissed at a verdict. Go screw yourself. And anyone who thinks like you.
Crack Emcee wrote:
Their own neighborhoods."
Is that what you call living in a place where nobody owns anything?
"Their own"?
Man, you guys are stuuuuu-pid!
well the black community certainly lives there and shops there.
Crack, next time I hear an argument against gentrification of black communities by black people I'll remember what you said. It's not your neighborhood is it. So we can build a Starbucks there and you can get the f out.
If you're white and not a racist, Crack will do everything in his power to change your mind.
Crack: "Everybody still laughing?"
LOL
At you?
Yes.
Continuously.
Don't go changin'.
I swear to god, I grew up beleiving in MLK and the idea of integration. now, thanks to people like Crack I'm starting to realize it was a mistake. Thanks Crack.
If you're not an uncle atom black, frankly, I don't hold out much hope that you'll make it in society. You're just one grievance away from looting a store because of some action of some random person somewhere. Spoon fed revolutionary dogma thst paints you as the outsider you then live up to the stereotype and marginalized yourself from society that has already stopped giving a shit that you live here and has moved on. Uncle tom's know this and as such can get a long with white people. I have no bad words for Uncle Tom's. They are integrations success stories. In fact, I wouldn't even call them Uncle Tom's. But I'm sure Crack would.
If you're whitey and you know it, clap your hands!
Crack - we're all laughing at the 'superior intellect'.
Well now you REALLY did it Detroit!
The riots, and other things caused white flight. Meaning Blacks controlled Detroit. Blacks and dems. Isn't Detroit what crack wants? How did that work out for Detroit?
Just the other day another white senior citizen in NY got punched by a blah thug for no reason and wound up in the hospital with a blood clot on his brain. And Al Sharpton said nothing. Nor did whites riot and start targeting blacks.
Hm... in the one case we have a victim who lived, and whose attacker is being actively hunted by police.
In the other, we have a victim who died, and the killer's identity is being concealed by the police.
And that's not even getting into the fact that government-on-civilian violence is inherently more alarming than civilian-on-civilian violence.
"Pookie Number 2, if you don't give a damn about the one black kid we're up in arms about - just like you didn't give a shit about the others who have been killed since Trayvon - what makes you think anyone will buy that you care for any more?"
you're up in arms about one black kid who died because of a cop. How many black kids killed at the same time, probably by other blacks do you not give a crap about? The black community certainly isn't rioting about it.
As far as not caring about the individual kid dying, we don't really know much about the case do we? He died.he was supposedly unarmed. And the cop says he wrestled with him for his gun. If the cop is lying then he may have murdered the kid. If the cop is telling the truth then maybe there are extenuating circumstances for the shooting.
Not every shooting of of black people by cops is Trayvon Marrin. This is not to say that cops can't shoot an innocent person. of course they can, and have done so.
If blacks really want a world where no black can ever be shot by a white cop, they're going to have to do their own policing of their neighborhoods or have only black cops. When cops arent in a neighborhood it usually doesn't lead to less criminality.
Rwvenant wrote:
In the other, we have a victim who died, and the killer's identity is being concealed by the police.
And that's not even getting into the fact that government-on-civilian violence is inherently more alarming than civilian-on-civilian violence.
the cops released the name of one cop who was not directly involved in the shooting and he was faced with threats of violence against him. Not releasing the cops name is to prevent the mob from meting out mob justice.
And as far as cop violence, how many blacks are killed by cops every year? Of those killed, how many are gunned down in cold blood versus killed because cops were acting in good faith.
[Ferguson, MO] was a destination for African-Americans fleeing the oppression of the Jim Crow South in the first half of the 20th century as part of the so-called “Great Migration”. But the millions of migrants who landed in St Louis and cities like Chicago, New York and Detroit were confronted with hostility and racism, housing laws that restricted them to ghettos and fearful white residents who fled to the suburbs.
As the information keeps coming out, the history of white America's continued racism cannot help but be revealed as the true cause of all our troubles,...
Gee, why couldn't blacks - who whites kept broke - get their shit together?
Um, racism:
The history of the New Deal that looks at the ways that New Deal social programs, even those that were ostensibly universal, were inflected by race. That is, the way in which many of these programs had, if not necessarily racially exclusionary intentions, had racially exclusionary results. And, how New Deal programs, many of which were implemented locally, allowed local activists, local policymakers, local elected officials, to reinforce local patterns of racial segregation and racial discrimination through the implementation of these programs. So, one of the great New Deal programs (I eluded to it briefly a few minutes ago) was the federal subsidization of single-family home ownership. Another very significant one was the construction of federally subsidized public housing. Both of these deeply reinforced the patterns of racial segregation in the metropolitan area. They, promised as FDR did in his famous Second Bill of Rights in 1944, to provide a decent home for every American. But those decent homes were more likely to be available to whites and really helped to draw the black-white line in the turf of the metropolitan area. So, that's just one example of the ways in which programs that had far reaching consequences—it improved the lives of many ordinary Americans—had racially exclusionary consequences as well.
…Because these programs were locally controlled, it meant that local politicians had a fair amount of say over, say the location of public housing projects. So, white Detroiters in the late 1940s elected a mayor who was a Republican. Detroit mayoral races were nonpartisan so he ran on a nonpartisan line but he was a Republican who made his pitch to the white electorate of the city that he was going to keep white neighborhoods all white, that he was going to keep public housing projects away from white neighborhoods.
Because that's how the RACISTS wanted it,...
Pookie Number 2, if you don't give a damn about the one black kid we're up in arms about - just like you didn't give a shit about the others who have been killed since Trayvon - what makes you think anyone will buy that you care for any more?
I know logic is hard for you, what with you being stupid and all, but I actually haven't said anything at all about my concern for Michael Brown.
Because it means betraying black people - for whites.
I'm sure it's enormously comforting for the thousands of mothers burying their children that Al Sharpton can't be troubled to interrupt his luxurious lifestyle to encourage even marginally productive behavior among the people he allegedly 'leads'. Because advocating for healthy families and strong character, which are fundamental requirements in every healthy society in human history, somehow 'betrays' blacks.
Again, I recognize that your stupidity makes it very hard for you to actually understand things, but you just confirmed that you ascribe very little value to the lives of black men. I think you're wrong.
eddie willers,
"If you're white and a racist, Crack and the other 97% of blacks who will never vote with you or defend your interests, will do everything in our power to change your mind.
Whether your racist ass likes it or not."
FIFY
jr565,
"I swear to god, I grew up beleiving in MLK and the idea of integration."
Oh - you backed reparations like MLK?
You lying piece of shit,...
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/blacks-70-shooting-suspects-2013-nypd-article-1.1522917
70% of shootings suspects in 2013 in NY were black. 70%! Now, the article goes on to state that black community activists say the frustrating statistics reflect the stark reality of economics in poorer neighborhoods.
So they are acknowledging the stat but saying its bcause of the harsh reality of the poorer communities. Which may even be true.
however, if 70% of shooting suspects are black cops are going after people who are suspected of shooting, statistically there will be a higher number of blacks involved with cops. Blacks might say they are being targeted by cops, but cops would say they are targeting criminals.
It almost becomes a what came first the chicken or the egg argument.
How many people rioting because of the death of this teen are in then going to be arrested for rioting or looting and how will at add to the statistics. Of blacks involved in crime? And are cops, in this case targeting them because of their race or because they are looting and burning down stores?
The cops released the name of one cop who was not directly involved in the shooting and he was faced with threats of violence against him.
Boo fuckity hoo. Murder suspects always receive death threats; police release their names anyway.
So long as they aren't cops.
Crack wrote:
Oh - you backed reparations like MLK?
You lying piece of shit,...
no. I beleived his I Have a dream speech. What a fool I was.integration already involved reparations, how many billions have been spent already on giving blacks a leg up and ending poverty. I wasn't born when he died and so grew up after schools were already integrated. but, was fully on board for such integration. If you want people to judge you by the content of your character and not the color of your skin then you can't judge whites based on the action of a cop like these rioters are doing. Or like those who nearly killed Reginald Denny did when they beat his brains in with a cinder block because of the sins of some white guys he didn't no.
if that was all a con on MLK's part, then shame on me for buying his argument.
Revenant wrote:
Boo fuckity hoo. Murder suspects always receive death threats; police release their names anyway.
So long as they aren't cops.
if they released his name and some one gunned him down before he went on trial what would your argument be?
Or worse, Revenant, what if someone killed the cop who's name was released who wasn't involved. What would your argument be then? Boo fuckity hoo?
Wonder if jr thinks it is alright to release the names of murder suspects who are not police officers?
They are public servants and every single one of their names ought to be a matter of public record. Anything less than this is very dangerous for citizens
Revenant cops are determined to HAVE acted illegally all the time. He has yet to be charged. And a judge has yet to compel cops to release the name. What point would it serve other than to rile up people who are already looting stores?
you want them to throw him to the mob and let them do what they want to him?
Harrowgate wrote:
Wonder if jr thinks it is alright to release the names of murder suspects who are not police officers?
not until they are charged with a crime.
They are public servants and every single one of their names ought to be a matter of public record. Anything less than this is very dangerous for citizens.
Damn straight.
I grew up in a housing project and lived in East Harlem when Obama was living ten blocks south of me and observing the behavior of rich people and their dogs. I don't have a vast repertoire of survivor skills, but I do know that there are some people you give a wide berth to. I would give a cop in riot gear the same deference that I would give a Crip if I were visiting Compton......Recently there was an incident in NYC, where a young kid got killed. It was completely random. Some other kid was trying to shoot somebody and shot her son instead. The mother of the murdered kid said that the other kid was someone's son also and urged forgiveness. Such a sentiment speaks well of her, but you just know that that would not be a sentiment she would express if her son had been shot by a cop. Sadly if your store gets looted or your son gets shot by a Crip, there's no one you can sue for a bundle. It's better to keep quiet about it, because you know how touchy those gang members are........How many businesses are looking to resettle in Ferguson. he many black people who bought a home there are going to see a profit on heir investment?
Is that what you call living in a place where nobody owns anything?
In 1967, of all the black urban populations in the country, the one with the highest rate of home ownership was Detroit's. The first store looted in the 1967 Detroit riot was Hardy's drugstore, a business owned by a black family, which had a reputation for advancing prescriptions to the locals on credit.
You make the call. Should the media release the name of a juvenile suspect before he in fact is charged with a crime?
http://www.gradethenews.org/feat/makethecall/juvenile.htm
There may be good times to release the name of the cop, but there are also many good reasons NOT to release the name. Cops don't always release the name of suspects, and neither does the media.
Steven wrote:
n 1967, of all the black urban populations in the country, the one with the highest rate of home ownership was Detroit's. The first store looted in the 1967 Detroit riot was Hardy's drugstore, a business owned by a black family, which had a reputation for advancing prescriptions to the locals on credit.
the owners had to have been Uncle Tom's. So, boo fuckity hoo.
jr565,
"They are acknowledging the stat but saying its bcause of the harsh reality of the poorer communities. Which may even be true."
So the theft of trillions of dollars by white America, combined with the segregationist policies of white America, produces desperation in black communities where people are cloistered together away from economic centers.
At least, that's what "the harsh reality of the poorer communities" means to me,...
Oh - and you and white America also expect everyone to be angels living under such harsh conditions.
You're mad in the head,...
Obviously, Riot-wise, "Fray-ance!!1" and Switzerland were worse, violence-wise.
Oh - and you and white America also expect everyone to be angels living under such harsh conditions.
I think what we expect is that people who try to improve their lots will largely succeed, and people who spend their time whining and begging and acting as though maturity and civilization are a 'betrayal' of blacks will fail.
Oh, and we expect Elmer Gantry-esque leaders to continue to enrich themselves on the backs of their stupid followers by pretending to give a shit (at least when the cameras are rolling).
Pookie Number 2,
"I know logic is hard for you, what with you being stupid and all, but I actually haven't said anything at all about my concern for Michael Brown."
Which is exactly how I know what you feel about him.
"I'm sure it's enormously comforting for the thousands of mothers burying their children that Al Sharpton can't be troubled to interrupt his luxurious lifestyle to encourage even marginally productive behavior among the people he allegedly 'leads'."
Oooh - you must like Lorde's "Royals" - white people who, after black slavery, criticize those blacks who actually, finally, live well now. It just burns whites UP!
A black person living a "luxurious lifestyle" - how disgusting and wrong!
I swear, you guys don't get our culture at all - or how you ape it - you're just like your white ancestors, after the Civil War, when they saw black women wearing dresses instead of potato sacks - like white women!
So charming.
And now you criticize with absolutely no concept of history what-so-ever. Al Sharpton has money - BAD.
No - Al Sharpton has money - GOOD.
More blacks with money - BETTER.
All blacks with money - BEST.
You know, America.
"Because advocating for healthy families and strong character, which are fundamental requirements in every healthy society in human history, somehow 'betrays' blacks."
Whites, showing no character by selling us all over the place, should allow us to determine our lives without their input - we've heard enough.
Just give us our money.
"Again, I recognize that your stupidity makes it very hard for you to actually understand things, but you just confirmed that you ascribe very little value to the lives of black men. I think you're wrong."
Again, that's what I'm doing - ME - according to you:
Well, I don't trust what you say, white man.
Probably never will,...
Apologies for my above silly comment. Nina Simone moved to Switzerland for various reasons, among them being a different tax status. This said: Darker people with a certain income status were treated differently, which should have made Oprah's Stupidity in Geneva (not to mention Paris) over the past few years kind of obvious.
Revenant said...
"No, but it was the police arresting people for the crime of sitting in a McDonald's"
Are you referring to those two "journalists"? Because it was the restaurant's management who asked the "journalists" to leave, and the "journalists" refused, so the restaurant's management called the police to come and remove the "journalists" who were now merely trespassers. The police arrived and ordered the trespassers to leave, but a couple of the trespassers got pissy with the cops, and gave the cops grief, and refused to disperse as they had been asked by the managment of the restaurant and ordered to by the police. The cops had every right to bust those two assholes. It's bad enough the police have to deal with a race riot, but to have to put up with the condescending attitudes of progressive democrat party "journalists" on top of that, well it's a wonder the cops didn't break their batons over the "journalists" heads.
I would give a cop in riot gear the same deference that I would give a Crip if I were visiting Compton
The gang and the government are no different?
Crack Emcee wrote:
Oooh - you must like Lorde's "Royals" - white people who, after black slavery, criticize those blacks who actually, finally, live well now. It just burns whites UP!
A black person living a "luxurious lifestyle" - how disgusting and wrong!
wow. So you're acknowledging that some blacks live well. Wow. And, no we're not saying its disgusting and wrong for blacks to live well. I bet those who are are not stealing hubcaps every time some black kid gets killed, unless they are one of the racial merchants fomenting the revolution. Thst usually pays the big bucks.
Pookie Number 2,
"I think what we expect is that people who try to improve their lots will largely succeed, and people who spend their time whining and begging and acting as though maturity and civilization are a 'betrayal' of blacks will fail."
Michael Brown was killed by the police two days before he was to start college. Let's recap:
He was trying to improve his lot.
HE DID NOT SUCCEED.
He did not whine, beg, or act as though maturity and civilization are a 'betrayal' of blacks will fail.
AND A WHITE MAN SHOT HIM DEAD.
I think you can now shove what whites "expect" up your ass because what you "expect" is a bullshit lie you've swallowed, from your white supremacist ancestors who created a "country" where your punk ass didn't have to compete, so you actually believe that's how it works.
You're a fool and you talk like one, too,...
Be,
"Darker people with a certain income status were treated differently, which should have made Oprah's Stupidity in Geneva (not to mention Paris) over the past few years kind of obvious."
I've been there - shut up.
jr565,
"I bet those who are are not stealing hubcaps every time some black kid gets killed, unless they are one of the racial merchants fomenting the revolution. Thst usually pays the big bucks."
You love the digs, don't you, jr?
But would you say it amongst a group of blacks?
Coward,...
So haven't I, Bub. You and I might actually be allies in this area, so think for a minute, why don't you, maybe, before telling me to shut my trap.
"Oh - and you and white America also expect everyone to be angels living under such harsh conditions."
Crack seems to think that no whites live in poverty.
Are you referring to those two "journalists"?
Your description doesn't match any incident I'm aware of, so apparently not. I'd be interested to read more about your story, though, if you have a link.
Here we have a man who is stereotyped as having a deep, resounding soul talking down to people like me, whom society has declared has no soul.
And all he can say is shut up.
This, contrary to what many here think, shows a deep intelligence.
Shut up is the strongest argument against gingers like me.
Over time it will work, at least insofar as when I die with no soul my struggle will be over.
Be,
"So haven't I, Bub. You and I might actually be allies in this area, so think for a minute, why don't you, maybe, before telling me to shut my trap."
No, if that's all it takes for you to turn, fuck you.
jr565,
"Crack seems to think that no whites live in poverty."
Oh, I know they do - and they fuck their sisters, drink too much, shoot each other, and kidnap women for sport.
But somehow you - the non-racist - spend all your time criticizing blacks for some reason.
Whites outnumber blacks 6 to 1.
Seems like you picked the wrong job for yourself, my non-racist pardner,...
Crack wrote:
Whites, showing no character by selling us all over the place, should allow us to determine our lives without their input - we've heard enough.
Just give us our money.
if you don't want our I put then why do blacks constantly want govt to provide for them? If you determine your own life, then you are in fact arguing the conservative position. Yes, why don't you determine your own life. We've heard enough - from you.
NotquiteunBuckley,
"Shut up is the strongest argument against gingers like me."
Your freckles are going to riot one day,...
It just occurred to me how silly this is:
All the EVIDENCE is against you - whites caused these problems.
And, yet, you still will blame blacks.
Cognitive dissonance - on a mass scale.
Fascinating,...
Crack wrote:
All the EVIDENCE is against you - whites caused these problems.
And, yet, you still will blame blacks.
when blacks loot a store they are responsible for said looting. Same for white folks.
Blacks who commit crimes are responsible for their criminality, same as white folks.
Crack, every single post you wrote is about how you blame whites for everything. So don't talk about cognitive dissonance when you accuse people of blaming blacks for things. I'm not blaming blacks for the worlds problems. I'm simply saying they are respnsible for their own actions. Just like everybody else.
They don't get a free pass on rioting and burning down a store because whitey is mean.
Those stores are not responsible for the actions of a single cop, nor are thy responsible for the plight of the black man. They are simply a store in a neighborhood conducting business. The world is not your punching bag because of your petty grievances. It would be as unseemly as me literally beating up women because a woman broke my heart.should all women pay for the sins of one?
Well fine then, I was mugged as a kid multiple times, usually by blacks. So, I'm going to go down the street, find an older black man and when he's not looking punch him in the face. if I can cripple him, all the better. because he's responsible because of his skin tone. Really?
I had a dream where unarmed teenagers are allowed to push cops into their cars because white people have a history of slavery and Jim Crow in the south and housing redlining in the north. Also, the teenager is due reparations, along with his whole family. Amendments added these ideas to the Bill of Rights and the government was organized on these foundational ideas.
But then I woke up.
No, but it was the police illegally arresting people for filming them, the police firing tear gas at reporters to stop them from filming, the police arresting people for the crime of sitting in a McDonald's, the police saying they can't be held responsible for the safety of peaceful protesters, etc.
The police were firing tear gas because the thugs were lobbing molotov cocktails and rocks at them. Even the FAA put out an alert for pilots to stay out of Ferguson airspace because the idiots were shooting at planes. Ferguson borders Lambert Airport. They also shot at backup police after the initial shooting was called in and torched cars.
McDonald's was wanting to close down to send their employees home at a safe time, and those 'journalists' wouldn't move. The 'journalists' set up work stations for the free wifi, meant for paying customers. If they wanted free wifi, go look for a Starbucks.
The majority of people in Ferguson, a majority black city, do not like what the thugs are doing to their city. They see them as low-lifes taking advantage of the situation.
The media is not reporting a lot of what is going on and 'journalists' from outside are distorting and lying about what is happening. At the press conference today, one said the police were lobbing teargas at 'peaceful protesters' where there was no evidence of violence. Everyone, including the governor, knew but did not correct him, how untrue that was.
I have friends and family, who live in the area, and some who are also cops.
The rioting has nothing to do with the kid. Even his mother was too scared to go home after that first night. Bunch of damn fools - rioting and telling lies.
Well I thought I had the boundaries of this discourse figured out.
Now, it seems, I must recalibrate.
Perhaps a comic character, Danger da Digger, with his famously brilliant tagline "da is my middle name," could, through visual means, provide advancement for the concepts even if digging a hole is the only area where advancement can be measured?
We will need a storyboard artist.
And interns.
Young, female interns.
Oh, and if an ancestor was robbed
in the 1830s you got reparations, too.
This riot is like all riots. Agit prop that provokes the cops to respond and then scream about how the cops are responding aggressively. "Oh my god they're firing tear gas" Help help, I'm being repressed!
Once people are looting stores cop need to be out there to protect the peace. So, if you don't want tear gas don't riot.
If this were just people protesting and not provoking the cops the cops would be standing on the sidelines watching to make sure nothing got out of hand, but not firing tear gas.
In re: Detroit, LBJ didn't send an Airborne Division in w/o rifles. The black soldiers stood with the whites in the unit. One of the whites interrupted a 'rent-a-cop' called upon by Romney beating a black guy and was drawn on by the cop(s). Pleased that he wasn't fired on, he turned to see black members of his unit drawn on the cop who backed away.
"We comforted them by explaining that as long as they didn't live about a liqupr story or a Best Buy they were probably safe."
My niece lived in Hollywood then and I called her to ask if she was OK. She told me that her building was safe but some (black) guys had come by to say they were going to burn down the furniture store next door at 9 and to get ready if you wanted to get anything before it went up.
Annie, thanks for an informative post.......The black citizens of Ferguson will not come out ahead. They moved to Ferguson to escape the crime of St. Louis. Ironic huh.. If they own a house, it's now worth less. If they're looking for a job, they will have to look further. Ditto if they want to buy anything that was sold in those burnt out stores. Has there ever been a riot that was won by the rioters or, for that matter, the people who lived in the neighborhood?.....There's no reason to believe that a full investigation will not be done. What are they protesting? Maybe the cop screwed up. Maybe there's another side to the story. Let the wheels turn.
Once people are looting stores cop need to be out there to protect the peace
That's kind of hilarious.
When the stores are actually *being* burned and looted, the cops are off on a donut run. But when it comes time to dress up like soldiers and pretend they're more than overpaid mall guards, they're good to go.
Annie is stating the absolute truth about the events. Locally, what's going on in Ferguson is being largely ignored in the area. It's the national media driving the story, and as we saw with two of them, they BECAME the story.
They were asked to vacate the premises by police in riot gear, and told the police did not have resources to protect them as the situation was devolving.
They refused to comply with a lawful order. They were then asked to show an ID, and they refused. Being detained, turned into being "arrested", complete with their heads being slammed by mean police who refused to identify themselves (oh, the irony!).
Within the hour, the reporters were tweeting their story, appearing on national shows, and advertising for other media on how to contact them to do interviews. They reprehensibly, became the news, and went so far as to falsely report many details that simply DID NOT HAPPEN, portraying themselves as victims of a "militant" police force who were running amok.
99.9% of STL does not want biased reporters w/agendas showing up to involve themselves in dicey sad situation. We wonder why they don't go to Chicago & get involved, demand answers from the police & officials, and confront street thugs there.
Pookie Number 2,
"I know logic is hard for you, what with you being stupid and all, but I actually haven't said anything at all about my concern for Michael Brown."
Which is exactly how I know what you feel about him.
I agree - your stupidity is how you "know" so many, many things that aren't true. Unless your point is that silence about deaths means that one doesn't care, which I guess explains your silence over the thousands of black men killed by black men every year.
Oooh - you must like Lorde's "Royals" - white people who, after black slavery, criticize those blacks who actually, finally, live well now. It just burns whites UP!
A black person living a "luxurious lifestyle" - how disgusting and wrong!
I understand that you're stupid, so I'll try to spell it out more slowly. I think that when blacks become wealthy through their own efforts, whether it's Oprah, Bill Cosby, LeBron James, Ben Carson, Richard Parsons, Beyoncé, et cetera, then it's a fantastic thing. When they become rich by riling up credulous fools like you, which is the shtick that's worked so well for Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, then it's just sick corruption.
"Because advocating for healthy families and strong character, which are fundamental requirements in every healthy society in human history, somehow 'betrays' blacks."
Whites, showing no character by selling us all over the place, should allow us to determine our lives without their input - we've heard enough.
Perhaps you should take that up with the blacks and whites that sold you all over the place, rather than the people who want you to succeed, but won't pretend that you're not capable.
Just give us our money.
As soon as you earn it.
"Again, I recognize that your stupidity makes it very hard for you to actually understand things, but you just confirmed that you ascribe very little value to the lives of black men. I think you're wrong."
Again, that's what I'm doing - ME - according to you:
Well, yes. And according to you as well. Because you think that anyone that can lead blacks to live more productive and less violent lives is 'betraying' blacks. You prefer the violent hellishness that many have now instead.
Well, I don't trust what you say, white man.
Probably never will,...
Perhaps one day you'll connect your shambles of a life to your refusal to consider ideas that are offered by 'white men'. Perhaps not - you don't come across as particularly bright.
Michael Brown was killed by the police two days before he was to start college. Let's recap:
He was trying to improve his lot.
HE DID NOT SUCCEED.
He did not whine, beg, or act as though maturity and civilization are a 'betrayal' of blacks will fail.
AND A WHITE MAN SHOT HIM DEAD.
Which is tragic, and may well have been a crime, and should be investigated as such. Inferring from that example that no black men should try to better their lots is stupid, even for you. And that's a lot of stupid.
I think you can now shove what whites "expect" up your ass because what you "expect" is a bullshit lie you've swallowed, from your white supremacist ancestors who created a "country" where your punk ass didn't have to compete, so you actually believe that's how it works.
Not a single one of my ancestors ever lived in the US for even a day. So again, your ignorant assumption leads you to an incorrect conclusion. And that statistical sample actually has credibility.
The gang and the government are no different?
Nope.
Both depend on the threat of force to get what they want.
Hence the second amendment.
Crack, you a malicious idiot. Never said I understand MLK, just that he had a clear vision that he communicated, and his methods were supportive of the vision.
I do not see a connection between rioting and what the rioters want. This kind of action is not going to produce any desirable outcome. It's criminal on the one hand, childish on the other. rebellion without a clue.
"As you may recall, a few years ago I played a miniscule role in encouraging the mother of an 18-year-old violist who had been shot and killed by a federal Drug Enforcement Agency agent to sue. A judge eventually awarded the parents $3 million. In that case, the government kept the shooter’s name secret for many months and perhaps a year, ostensibly to discourage revenge attacks (presumably by the surviving members of the string section in the victim’s high school orchestra).
That act of government secrecy was not treated as national news. In fact, the entire shooting was not national news. It was barely local news in the weeks after it happened.
There’s little demand for stories about cops shooting white teens. It’s a big country and bad stuff happens every day."
++
Indeed, the race/crime correlation so substantially exceeds the poverty/crime relationship that much of the latter may simply be a statistical artifact due to most urban blacks being poor. Consider that both blacks and Hispanics currently have similar national poverty rates in the one-third range, more than double the white figure, and each constitutes well over 20% of our urban population.
However, major cities with substantial poverty but few blacks usually tend to have far lower levels of crime. For example, El Paso and Atlanta are comparable in size and have similar poverty rates, but the latter has eight times the robbery rate and over ten times the homicide rate."
++
The legacy of slavery will curse this nation for a very long time into the future.
Crack is probably right in his assertions that white people don't understand the black experience, but that doesn't mean blacks totally understand the white experience either. Pointing fingers becomes an closed and endless loop.
Journalism has evolved from a desire to tell the truth (allegedly) to a desire to make the world a better place. Misplaced but good intentions combined with a business model to sell stories has created a perverted industry. Why is it that the first person they give the microphone to is Al Sharpton? The closed loop continues.
Crack: "Well, I don't trust what you say, white man"
LOL
Talk about cognitive dissonance!
Crack has already copped to believing whatever silly lies some "white guy told him"!
But now, not so much?
Too funny.
Crack, did a white guy tell you to claim that you don't believe white guys?
LOL
You are one confused shakedown artist!
They were asked to vacate the premises by police in riot gear, and told the police did not have resources to protect them as the situation was devolving. They refused to comply with a lawful order.
Which law is that?
I'm serious. Which law, exactly, says that if the police tell you to leave, you have to leave?
I'm serious. Which law, exactly, says that if the police tell you to leave, you have to leave?
Did the McDonalds staff ask/tell them to leave? If so, trespass, right?
Larry Nelson said...
The legacy of slavery will curse this nation for a very long time into the future.
Only because people keep using it as an excuse.
Why is it that the first person they give the microphone to is Al Sharpton?
I 'spose it's because showcasing a corrupt and perverse racist twit like Sharpton sells advertising.
The era of cowboys in the U.S. west was on the order of 50 years. It was kind of an historical aberration that spawned an industry of movies, books, and song genre. The industry sells a romanticized version. There are lots of (mostly white) people who embrace and live the cowboy mystique who have absolutely no sense of context.
I suspect that in the same way, some black people don't understand how their lives today intersect with the historical black experience. They have today's liberty and "cowboy up" against historical wrongs, not personal experience. I'm pretty sure this kind of behavior "in the day" would not have occurred because there would have been consequences, i.e. a lot of deaths. Like the cowboy industry, the historical grievance is doing a good job of selling to its audience. Crack bought it.
There are civil rights abuses, there is racial discrimination, there are some unusual cases that rise to a horrific level, but in the main not approaching historical problems and not warranting the community wide reactions generated.
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