So says Ari J. Kaufman at Pajamas Media, putting Madison at #2 on his list of "10 Most Overrated Destinations in the Midwest." I guess his dozens of trips were back in 2011, during the big uprising against Scott Walker, and even then his observations are none too astute, since the protests, while clamorous, were never violent. Groups that got as large as 100,000, full of people who were really upset and trying to crank up the emotion, did not become violent. That was actually pretty amazing, and the Capitol building, one of the most beautiful state capitol buildings, isn't obscured by anything.
Kaufman seems to be pandering to the PJ Media readership, which is apparently supposed to be a lot of liberal-haters. If you're reading my blog, you've seen plenty of what's great about Madison. I've lived here for 30 years, and Meade has lived here 5 years now. I asked him what he thought of Madison, and he said:
I like it. I like the residents. I find it a very peaceful place to live. I know it's very lefty, but I think most of the real lefties are old, complacent, kind of fat, drunk, and lazy. So it's a nice time to be in Madison, because there's some re-energizing in the politics, and a lot of that is due to Scott Walker Republicans....ADDED: Kaufman's powers of observation are also deficient when it comes to assessing lakes. They are not pristine. Here's a picture I took from the Union Terrace on the shore of Lake Mendota a few days ago:
So it's certainly not "pristine." But don't worry, the sign isn't always there, and I haven't seen it recently. And we have Wingra, Monona, Kegonsa, and Waubesa as well as Mendota.
AND: Lake Wingra:
पोस्ट्स
११९ टिप्पण्या:
Non-violent? Maybe you should go back and review some of Meade's adventures trying to get video of these idiots, or their various 'takeovers' and forced entries into the state capitol, etc.
"Kaufman seems to be pandering to the PJ Media readership, which is apparently supposed to be a lot of liberal-haters."
And that makes them about as useful, as a news source, as The Cartoon Network,….
Hey! Did I authorize that quote to be use on your blog? I was just thinking out loud. How will I explain that to all my Madison communist pals? Think of the dirty looks I will now suffer. Violent dirty looks.
Terrible Reading Comprehension Guy says:
Sometimes I think Althouse doesn't even read the things she writes about. The article in question clearly places Madison in the Midwest, yet she blithely argues with its premise, even though Madison is indeed in the Midwest. Does the Professor even know where she is?
I find it a very peaceful place to live. I know it's very lefty, but I think most of the real lefties are old, complacent, kind of fat, drunk, and lazy.
That's about how I feel about Colorado. Most of the Coexist/Obama/PP bumper stickered cars belong to a very masculine looking woman in her 60s who still wears hippie beads.
"Non-violent? Maybe you should go back and review some of Meade's adventures trying to get video of these idiots, or their various 'takeovers' and forced entries into the state capitol, etc."
It was rude at times and it was very noisy and crowded, but it wasn't violent. It wasn't particularly peaceful, but it never became a riot and there weren't any fistfights, explosions, or shootings.
I did get hit by a vevuzula, and my son got scratched protecting me, but we didn't ask for that one guy to get arrested.
It was also impressive that the police were completely restrained, though as one protestor informed me: "The police are on our side."
Maybe he just didn't like Madison.
I find NYC to be a useless shithole. Opinions vary.
damikesc,
"Maybe he just didn't like Madison.
I find NYC to be a useless shithole,…"
The capital city of the world.
Man, some of you reveal how fucked up you are so easily,...
Madison may be a little too sophisticated for the philistines at pjmedia.
Sorry, we're just better than your town.
Terrible Reading Comprehension Guy says:
And another thing: Althouse still has not written about the Scarlett Johansson defamation case against the French author. This glaring omission clearly states where the Professor stands in relation to the Freedom of Art, and it is not pretty. Just to be clear: I am not stating that Scarlett Johansson is not pretty -- I know how people like to twist words around. So for the record: Scarlett Johansson is pretty and Althouse clearly employs a fascist viewpoint to the Freedom of Art.
The names of those lakes are racist.
As a Native American I demand those names be changed.
/sarc
Perhaps PJ Media is maturing to be like other news outlets: full of shit.
"Avoid contact with water" in the same picture as people out on the lake in wetsuits having fun with watersports.
I guess the health risks are worth it?
Maybe "confrontational" or "abusive" would be a better word choice than violent, but that's not a totally crazy description based on what I read here during that time.
As for "pristine," it sure does look that way based on your beautiful photos.
He needs to visit on a football weekend.
Berkeley is also a nice place to visit. It's just a different culture, they can be as liberal as they want. So what? I'm just visiting and, Portlandia notwithstanding, there is no liberal or conservative way to...well, damn, actually there is a liberal and a conservative way to make me a grilled-cheese sandwich, but you know what I mean.
I have no desire whatsoever to live in Northern California but it's a stunningly beautiful place to visit.
I think it's about as fair as the way the media generally portrays rural America.
Ann Althouse said...
It was also impressive that the police were completely restrained, though as one protestor informed me: "The police are on our side."
As I recall, that was a recurring theme of your work--that government employees were openly sympathetic to the protesters and were often willing to ignore their duties and/or use government resources to further protest goals.
"the protests, while clamorous, were never violent."
But you said the protesters were running wild! And someone had a sign that labeled Walker as "Hitler"!! And the people were singing REALLY loud!!! Plus all those rapes Meade said happened inside the Capitol!!!!
If that isn't considered violent then what is?
Crack (re:NY City): "The capital city of the world."
Lol
Try London dickhead. But hey I get it. You just aren't very bright.
You could at least try and stay current though. Then again that would require effort. So naturally you are excused.
Capital of the world...world's largest nanny city. Take your pick.
If you can think and take care of f yourself, NYC has little to offer. If I wanted rude, I could go to Philly
Is that Meade on the water? Awesome.
Funniest comment on this thread thus far?
Noted moron garage who promotes himself to the sophisticated class.
That is some nuclear grade self delusion for the guy who didnt know what sychophant means.
crack and garage.
Peas in a pod.
"capital city of the world"?
Your world maybe
For a tourist destination to be overrated doesn't it first have to be rated?
I'm sure Madison is a very fine city, growing up in the Midwest I just don't remember anyone considering it a tourist destination.
Here's my top 10 list for the Midwest:
(1) The Great Lakes
(6) Iowa State Fair
(7) Hannibal, Missouri
(8) Greenfield Village
(9) Niagara Falls, Canada
(10) Branson, Missouri
I'm a salt-water guy. Having grown up on the beach in California, swimming in fresh water has always grossed me out. It's like swimming in somebody else's bath water-- not to mention the slimy muck oozing up between your toes. Funny, because now I live next to a fresh water lake, with which I have never come in contact. A kid died of naegleria from swimming in it a couple of years ago. Nuff said.
Postscript: In the 1920's our little semi-desert podunk had a sizable colony of Jewish communists. Now that I think about it, they're probably the ones that ruined the lake, as apparently leftists have a tendency to do.
I don't think I would call it violent either, but it was very ugly and confrontational for any and all that were recognized as opposition...from GOP legislators, their staff, citizens with opposing views, and reporters.
In his article on the best Midwest spots to visit, he calls Lake Michigan a sea. Case dismissed.
Fat, drunk, laxy--and generally quiet. That's the way I like 'em.
Ann you are the frog in the pot while the heat is turned up.
Hard left cities have a spiritual darkness to them. I feel that when I have to visit Berkeley, SF or Arcata.
I am thinking the commenter felt that and tried to vocalized.
Birkel said...
"The names of those lakes are racist. As a Native American I demand those names be changed."
Don't even get me started on Indianapolis, Indiana!
I lived there when I went to school. I liked the physical environment quite a bit: the lakes and woods and pleasant spaces were enjoyable. But by the end I was anxious to leave.
Partly this was due to the absolutely insufferable arrogance of many of the residents, particularly the ones with the teeniest bit of power. While this trend is evident everywhere, Madison was truly epic in its toxic stew of self-righteousness and narrow-mindedness.
The other reason was that as I visited other cities, Madison came to feel more and more dead to me. It doesn't feel like a living, breathing city. It lacks vibrancy. It lacks vitality. Everything there - even - no, especially the attempts at wackiness - seem very stultified, very Soviet. Like a Potemkin University Town. Filled to the brim with phonies. Other cities have people out doing things because they enjoy doing them. Madison is filled with people out doing things because they want people to see them doing them. Or because people feel like they are supposed to do them. Something felt very rotten there, very hollow. Maybe that's to be expected of a place with a lot of people moving in and out. But it seemed dishonest, so phony. Madison is a leaden vision of what a hip, vibrant college campus should be, held together with tax funds and tuitions and nobody daring to acknowledge the phoniness of it all.
I've never regretted leaving.
I seem to remember Meade inviting Garage to have a beer a while back. Did that summit ever take place?
It seems to me that Madison is very violent. In the same sense that all men are rapists just by how they look at women.
I'm sure if I wore a Tea Party shirt in Madison I'd get violent, he deserves to be raped, looks.
You got hit with an object.
Your son was scratched.
It was not violent.
Um, ok sure.
A bunch of years ago I spent three days plus part of a weekend at a technical conference hosted by the Wisconsin Computer Science Department at the Monona Terrace. It's a really beautiful place for a conference.
But I have to agree with Sofa King, that when I ventured away from the Conference Center I found the city to be pretty dead-feeling.
That is some nuclear grade self delusion for the guy who didnt know what sychophant means.
I at least know how to spell "sycophant". Do you know what all those red squiggly lines underneath words in your posts are for, Einstein?
Perhaps PJ Media is maturing to be like other news outlets: full of shit.
It wasn't news. It was an opinion piece.
Wasn't there a group of people who stalked the Governor's home and family? What about the vandalism inside the Capitol building?
It wasn't violent, but a few threatened violence.
"The other reason was that as I visited other cities, Madison came to feel more and more dead to me. It doesn't feel like a living, breathing city. It lacks vibrancy. It lacks vitality. Everything there - even - no, especially the attempts at wackiness - seem very stultified, very Soviet. Like a Potemkin University Town. Filled to the brim with phonies. Other cities have people out doing things because they enjoy doing them. Madison is filled with people out doing things because they want people to see them doing them. Or because people feel like they are supposed to do them. Something felt very rotten there, very hollow. Maybe that's to be expected of a place with a lot of people moving in and out. But it seemed dishonest, so phony. Madison is a leaden vision of what a hip, vibrant college campus should be, held together with tax funds and tuitions and nobody daring to acknowledge the phoniness of it all."
This is a great description of Olympia and Arcata as well. Probably applies to most liberal hipster towns.
"Madison is filled with people out doing things because they want people to see them doing them. Or because people feel like they are supposed to do them."
I think there's some truth to this. Dane Dances starts tonight on the Monona Terrace. I went once on salsa night -- overcrowded dance area on concrete with long lines for everything. But look at the slideshow: awesome minorities and interracial kumbaya! If you don't want to go, you might be a racist.
Someone should invent a one of those Trikke fitness scooters with pontoons, or something or other, so you can take out on the water.
"Berkeley is also a nice place to visit."
Really? I never have. Its a dirty little town, right next to Oakland, that is a major crime center. Not to mention, it has lots of homeless, lefties, and is cold and windy a lot. Its only real advantage is being near much better cities in the Bay area.
And the author doesn't like Chicago either. I always though Chicago was the biggest, most cosmopolitan city in the Midwest.
Well, I've lived here 35 years, and agree that the place is spoiled by the (Progressive) people.
I still cringe for the people in the audience that clapped extra special hard and loud for the one Black (and average) dancer in The Nutcracker at the Overture Center last Winter.
So so embarrassing.
That's Madison.
Lol. Yes garage. A typo on the cell phone on the run is equivalent to not knowing the meaning of some basic terms!
I hope that makes you feel better!
You can now return to your "sophisticated" rural wisconsin high school educated existence!
Gee, its like you are a James Bonds double or something!
Berkeley is a crap hole in the middle of a bigger crap hole.
Just ask garage. He's been around so he can tell ya!
Madison is like most places. It has good, bad and ugly.
Part of Madison's ugly is a large vocal and semi-dominant cadre convinced that they are completely correct about everything.
I'd say there are right wing places just like it, but since there aren't any right wing academic places left, that's impossible. But righties are susceptible to conviction of ideological perfection as well.
Always get a kick out of conservatives who choose to live in Madison. I always ask, why don't you bootstrap it and move to Waukesha, or West Bend? There are plenty of red counties to live in. Maybe it has to do with employment.
I was already a conservative (with libertarian leanings) by the time I was a freshman at UT-Austin in 1975, but I nevertheless very much enjoyed living there in college and law school through 1980. "Sodom on the Colorado" is a fun place, and I still like to return there on visits for business and pleasure.
I suspect I'd feel about the same way about Madison, but I've never been there.
But that's not the same as wanting to live there. I wouldn't want to live in Austin, or Madison (or Berkeley or Ann Arbor, for that matter) — regardless of their other charms and attractions.
I can't tell you how many of my Austin-based friends and relatives who've long been Austin boosters regardless of their personal politics, but who in the last three years have expressed to me (with varying degrees of astonishment) their conclusion that Austin is becoming increasingly unlivable as a direct result of leftie policies on things as fundamental and basic as fiscal responsibility, city services, and infrastructure maintenance. No, it's not Detroit. But it's not like the rest of Texas.
Traffic in Austin is worse now than anywhere in Houston or Dallas. The cost of living is higher. The lakes and the Texas Hill Country retain their allure, but it's overbalanced for most folks by growing civic aggravation.
Having said that, I can't resist including a link and a plug for my home, Houston. Most of the people who'd want to live in Austin (or, probably, Madison or Berkeley or Ann Arbor) won't care much about the facts and figures in the linked article. But the rest of us tend to, and therefore ought to know what Houston has to offer, despite the stereotypes about the city.
DEFINITION
"Madison, WI = 84.7 square miles surrounded by reality".
Many years ago I retired to a small town on the coast of Maine that is surrounded by drop-dead scenery and scads of opportunities for enjoying the outdoors.
Also here in great numbers, relative to the population, are aged academic retirees of a very leftist persuasion plus young folks who graduated from our small, very liberal, college within the last ten years and hang around doing odd jobs until they finally give up and get a real job in some soulless dump in a flat inland location.
I don't completely share their politics because I am probably to the right of the tea party on fiscal issues, but well to the left on the Bill of Rights, including freedom of speech for even the Koch brothers and a view of the Second Amendment same as the one held by the DC appeals court.
We all enjoy our environment and love our town and never, ever talk politics.
""Avoid contact with water" in the same picture as people out on the lake in wetsuits having fun with watersports.
I guess the health risks are worth it?"
It's only soft for a couple of months of the year so its the only game in town.
The legislator that got trapped by demonstrators trying to go to work might disagree with you.
Long, cold winters and short, hot (HUMID) summers are cool.
Seriously.
No guys, I'm being serious here.
Long, cold winters and short, hot (HUMID HUMID HUMID) summers are way better than moderate temps or harsh sunlight.
I did get a great opportunity, off of Craig's List as it were, to fly around the capitol at night and it was very sublime. Concert on the Square Wednesdays can be splendid also, yet the heat and humidity can be difficult for those not accustomed to without-conscious defending horribly humid conditions.
Madison is Racist.
(Oh, and thanks for writing "Oh, and" Garage Mahal, now I can't use that shit no more. It was part of my favorite diarrhea too.)
Ann, you mislead by claiming the 2011 protests were "never" violent. I am one of those who were being protested. Let me offer another version, one that you may not have witnessed. Curious George is correct that thousands of protesters focused their ire on a few hundred individuals.
Democrat officials abandoned their neckties for colored t-shirts early on, making it easy for the mob to spot targets. When the Governor invited all the UW-system chancellors to the capitol for a briefing, they arrived in business attire. One was surrounded by the mob and ultimately pushed to the ground, apparently targeted because he wore a tie. Ann, you and Meade probably never visited the protests wearing a tie.
In February, national networks had cameras setup just off the capitol square for live broadcasts. I objected when a group of six police officers was sent to escort me over, at that point I hadn't experienced a mob in action. The officers explained that the out-of-state protesters wouldn't recognize me until after the interview and then I would be need an escort. After the interview, the officers formed a circle around me as protesters spit on us, threw objects, grabbed at my clothes and hair. Only the officers were peaceful and non-violent.
The events of March 9, 2011 were an outrageous example of mob action. In the afternoon, Capitol staffers wearing ties observed Ash Wednesday at church on the square, emerging with marked faces only to encounter a "Tailhook" style gauntlet of harassment including swearing and shoving.
That evening, a conference committee took action around 6pm that night triggering three hours of uncontrolled outrage that would meet any definition of violence. At 6:30 I watched from inside a restaurant on MLK Blvd as a mob followed an individual, wearing a tie, out of the capitol, taunting him as he walked before surrounding his car and rocking it until his head violently smashed against the inside of his door. He escaped by driving right through the mob.
At 7:30 I witnessed a Fox 6 news van on the capitol square surrounded by protestors who rocked the van violently until the news staff emerged, bruised, scared and begging to be left alone. They were just local reporters, they said, not the hated FoxNewsChannel.
About 8pm the mob forced entry into the locked capitol, overwhelming the police by physical force. Video of this event shows police physically struggling with the mob, in some cases being thrown to the ground. Again, only the police were non-violent in their resistance.
The officers were overwhelmed by a violent mob of up to 7,000 who used physical force to gain entry. The State Journal reported that the armed officers retreated to the third floor where they "retrenched".
What is a violent protest? Violence in this case is not the intentional infliction of pain or injury. Dictionary.com offers these definitions for violent as an adjective: 1)acting with or characterized by uncontrolled, strong, rough force 2)caused by injurious or destructive force 3)intense in force, effect, etc.; severe; extreme 4) roughly or immoderately vehement or ardent 5)furious in impetuosity, energy, etc. By any definition you chose, a violent protest occurred between 6pm and 9pm on March 8, 2011 in Madison.
Now as it happens I'll be in Milwaukee for Irishfest.
I will buy beer for anyone in Althouse gear.
I dread the humidity, but will suffer it for the presence of the quality of person Wisconsin has not just in abundance, but in nearly ubiquitous quantity throughout everywhere but Dane County.
A Great State indeed, Wisconsin.
And the Green Bay Packers too.
And the author doesn't like Chicago either.
I'm with him there. I went to Chicago a couple of times. Not impressed.
I have lived in Madison for 29 years. It used to be a fun place to live but now I agree with Sofa King and am just waiting for the retirement years to come so my husband and I can move on.
I am a conservative and if you read the paper every day here you are always reading about how stupid your views are. And yet, I ask, how is it this "wondrous place on the lake" can do such a poor, pathetic job of educating our minority population?
Madison has lost its appeal in so many ways.
At 7:30 I witnessed a Fox 6 news van on the capitol square surrounded by protestors who rocked the van violently until the news staff emerged, bruised, scared and begging to be left alone. They were just local reporters, they said, not the hated FoxNewsChannel.
Wow. Sounds terrible. They filed a report on this "mob" right? They are reporters, after all.
Remember that letter you got saying "Your Madison privileges have been revoked?"
That's how the Provo IRA used to operate, too. Real nice. Non-violent, my ass. Intimidation by violence or threat of violence is the leftist's stock in trade. That's why they resort to it so quickly. They have little else.
Augie just tore you a new one.
Of course there were incidents of violence and threats of violence 3 years ago during the Wisconsin Protests. There were a lot of angry people packed into relatively small spaces. But relative to other modern political protests in the U.S. — e.g. Chicago 1968 — it was remarkably nonviolent. I'm glad the protests failed, backfired, and are over. The old fat complacent unions were, in general, a drag on the entire state and they had lost public support. Good riddance. The change brings hope for a better economy for all. "Open-source" unionism and radical centrism is the future for the Left. Not tired old Progressivism.
Even though quite a few oldsters in Madison, like garage and madisonfella, continue to grumble and complain, Madison is full of hundreds of thousands of smart creative young people (and some wonderful old-timers) who are quietly optimistic, industrious, moderate, peaceful, healthful, friendly, interesting, sober, kind, courteous, and generally delightful. It's a very good place to visit if you share any of those traits.
"Augie just tore you a new one."
Now that's what I call violent.
Even though quite a few oldsters in Madison, like garage and madisonfella, continue to grumble and complain,
I'm much younger than you, have a great paying job (unlike you), and I've never complained about Madison. I love it here. Madison will always be a cool place to live, even in spite of Walker's radical Tea Party austerity agenda. "Walker proof". I do feel sorry for the rural deluded Walker supporters who have very little opportunities to advance where they live. But Walker supporters do seem to be dwindling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FikZwgj89HI
"the Capitol building, one of the most beautiful state capitol buildings..."
You didn't build that.
garage mahal said...Always get a kick out of conservatives who choose to live in Madison. I always ask, why don't you bootstrap it and move to Waukesha, or West Bend? There are plenty of red counties to live in. Maybe it has to do with employment.
True, there is a giant flow of government money propping up the Madison economy, but there is another reason.
Conservatives don't spend as much time obsessing over their neighbour's politics as liberals do. They are simply more open-minded. More liberal in the true sense of the word.
"I am a conservative and if you read the paper every day here you are always reading about how stupid your views are."
I can live very happily in Madison because I don't pay any attention to local media. The people I know don't talk politics so it's not an issue there either, even though most are liberals. Madison is about lakes, parks, the Overture Center and stuff like that.
The thing is about Madison, you realize that there are a lot of people like garage who are embolden by the work of others and somehow feel that makes them extra special and entitled.
Its the same in most places to a lesser extent anyway, and his act is familiar. So his angst about Walker or whatever, doesn't reflect badly on Madison. We get it. He's a little fish in a big pond. Most people are decent and nice and we usually can't tell what stupid things they reveal online.
"Someone should invent a one of those Trikke fitness scooters with pontoons, or something or other, so you can take out on the water."
I know I'm a two-fingered typist and all that . . . but still . . . did I have a freaking stroke or what?!
Let's play analogies!
(1.) Blaze : Upworthy :: PJ Media :
a.) TPM
b.) Buzzfeed
c.) Huffington Post
d.) Daily Beast
Let's play again!
Madison (WI) : Moscow (RU) :: Lawrence (KS) :
1.) Boston (MA)
2.) Buffalo (NY)
3.) Paris (FR)
4.) College Station (TX)
Of course there were incidents of violence and threats of violence 3 years ago during the Wisconsin Protests. There were a lot of angry people packed into relatively small spaces. But relative to other modern political protests in the U.S. — e.g. Chicago 1968 — it was remarkably nonviolent.
Mostly peaceful!
Relative to the big Tea Party protests? MLK's march on Washington? The Million Man March? The Wisconsin protests looked like a bunch of thugs.
Even the occutards were less violent in most cities.
"But relative to other modern political protests in the U.S. — e.g. Chicago 1968 — it was remarkably nonviolent"
Meade had to go back only 40+ years for a more violent "modern" protest bwahaha
When I think of Madison WI I think of Dwight Yoakum.
1000 Miles From Nowhere.
My sincerest apologies.
Yoakham is the name.
That was fun. I'm really glad I posted the link.
"garage mahal said...
Always get a kick out of conservatives who choose to live in Madison. I always ask, why don't you bootstrap it and move to Waukesha, or West Bend? There are plenty of red counties to live in. Maybe it has to do with employment."
Wow. This is all you need to know about many Madisonians. Passive agressive intolerance.
Here, let me change that for you:
garage mahal said...
Always get a kick out of blacks who choose to live in Madison. I always ask, why don't you bootstrap it and move to Milwaukee, Detroit, or Chicago? There are plenty of black cities to live in.
Which is why you have this:
http://www.cityofmadison.com/Council/councilMembers/alders.cfm
While this trend is evident everywhere, Madison was truly epic in its toxic stew of self-righteousness and narrow-mindedness.
There's nothing that can surpass the "holier than thou" attitude of a Progressive town. Not even the Vatican.
Of course there were incidents of violence and threats of violence 3 years ago during the Wisconsin Protests. There were a lot of angry people packed into relatively small spaces. But relative to other modern political protests in the U.S. — e.g. Chicago 1968 — it was remarkably nonviolent. I'm glad the protests failed, backfired, and are over. The old fat complacent unions were, in general, a drag on the entire state and they had lost public support. Good riddance. The change brings hope for a better economy for all. "Open-source" unionism and radical centrism is the future for the Left. Not tired old Progressivism.
Even though quite a few oldsters in Madison, like garage and madisonfella, continue to grumble and complain, Madison is full of hundreds of thousands of smart creative young people (and some wonderful old-timers) who are quietly optimistic, industrious, moderate, peaceful, healthful, friendly, interesting, sober, kind, courteous, and generally delightful. It's a very good place to visit if you share any of those traits.
Violence is violence.
So there was more than Anne stated.
So it wasn't violent, except for when it was.
Sure Man.
The mistake the city worshippers make is that city people are just as ignorant, closeminded and bigoted as any small town rube. The veneer of urban cosmopolitanism comes off as soon as their ox is gored, or their world view is challenged.
Arcata is so polluted with progressive Smug that it causes a heat island effect that warms it 10 degrees higher than surrounding nearby areas.
Arcata is at it's best during it's street festivals. That's when I like to go there. Otherwise, it's just a hippie game preserve and playground for the prog politicians that rely on the college students to get elected.
Perhaps a dyspeptic view but of the little I've seen of Madison (mostly on this blog); anodyne coffee shops, yuppie lunch cafes etc. The one thing I would really like to see is the dog friendly park and then buy an expensive hamburger in some emporium. A little like Boston but cleaner.
"The Wisconsin protests looked like a bunch of thugs."
I know — remarkably nonviolent thugs.
http://www.dwightyoakam.com/
Yoakam.
Yoakam.
Yoakam.
Yoakam.
Yoakam.
Yoakam.
Yoakam.
I know — remarkably nonviolent thugs.
Thugs are always "non-violent" until you don't do what they tell you to do.
Characterizing intimidation and threats of mob violence to get your way, such as forcibly entering buildings you are told to stay out of and knocking people to the ground and scaring people by threatening to rock and tip over other peoples vehicles with them still in them as "non-violence" is bullshit and is language perversion typical of leftists.
Meade, you are excusing and enabling the mob.
I did find some evidence of violent thugs in the Capitol
threatening to rock and tip over other peoples vehicles with them still in them as "non-violence" is bullshit and is language perversion typical of leftists.
There is zero evidence of that ever happening. Walker tells a tale similar to that in his book, at an event in LaCrosse. Except, absolutely nobody remembers it happening, including several media outlets who were present. It fits perfectly into the righty victimhood though. Even when crushing somebody else they are always the victim.
Let’s see if I get Anne’s critique right:
"... I found a pleasant area surrounded by many pristine lakes … “
To prove the writer wrong Anne comes out with a picture of a sign by a lake with a warning about the water, a warning which seems to have been ignored by the people in and on the water. So we either have a pretty area with lots of lakes or one approaching a Super Fund cleanup site. Perhaps the writer visited during the few days that the lakes were not a health hazard.
The University of Wisconsin website makes no mention of the killer lakes, stating that: “The campus spreads out along Lake Mendota, encompassing wooded hills, friendly shores and lively city streets.” But then,the WU puffpiece is bound to be self serving, hiding the truth about Moscow on Mendota.
´…ruined by its residents. Collegians from around the country, their professors and local progressives team up to form Berkeley of the Midwest, where generally one ideological mindset is tolerated.”
An opinion that seems to be shared by others, including those who have lived there a long time. However, I can understand how people like Anne who generally share the prevailing attitude may not appreciate being disparaged by people who don’t agree with their provincial political positions.
“Most of downtown is swallowed by the enormous university."
I would say that, after searching Google Maps, this a fairly accurate observation. In a town with a population 200,000, about 45,000 or nearly 25% of Madison’s people are either students or faculty. How could it be otherwise?
“Once you peel through the masses, the capitol building is constantly obscured by either renovations or violent protests, thus you rarely get photos outside or inside the building."
The writer must have visited during those peaceful protests where no one was threatened, assaulted or abused by the loving, peaceful, broad-minded people who took over the capital building. “Peaceful.” I don’t think that word means what you think it means.
Let’s see if I get Anne’s critique right:
"... I found a pleasant area surrounded by many pristine lakes … “
To prove the writer wrong Anne comes out with a picture of a sign by a lake with a warning about the water, a warning which seems to have been ignored by the people in and on the water. So we either have a pretty area with lots of lakes or one approaching a Super Fund cleanup site. Perhaps the writer visited during the few days that the lakes were not a health hazard.
The University of Wisconsin website makes no mention of the killer lakes, stating that: “The campus spreads out along Lake Mendota, encompassing wooded hills, friendly shores and lively city streets.” But then,the WU puffpiece is bound to be self serving, hiding the truth about Moscow on Mendota.
´…ruined by its residents. Collegians from around the country, their professors and local progressives team up to form Berkeley of the Midwest, where generally one ideological mindset is tolerated.”
An opinion that seems to be shared by others, including those who have lived there a long time. However, I can understand how people like Anne who generally share the prevailing attitude may not appreciate being disparaged by people who don’t agree with their provincial political positions.
“Most of downtown is swallowed by the enormous university."
I would say that, after searching Google Maps, this a fairly accurate observation. In a town with a population 200,000, about 45,000 or nearly 25% of Madison’s people are either students or faculty. How could it be otherwise?
“Once you peel through the masses, the capitol building is constantly obscured by either renovations or violent protests, thus you rarely get photos outside or inside the building."
The writer must have visited during those peaceful protests where no one was threatened, assaulted or abused by the loving, peaceful, broad-minded people who took over the capital building. “Peaceful.” I don’t think that word means what you think it means.
"Meade, you are excusing and enabling the mob."
If by mob you mean the vast majority of protesters who were not violent, then fine, I encourage that.
This country was founded on protest against perceived unjust authority. I approve. Protest and free expression are exceptional American traditions.
"Conservatives don't spend as much time obsessing over their neighbour's politics as liberals do."
The thousands of man-hours that were spent in order to publish the name and address of all the citizen who petitioned for a recall election says you're wrong about that.
And wtf is up with Meade and Althouse suddenly doing a 180degree turn on the issue of violence during the protests? Do they now feel guilty about spreading those "rapes! mayhem! theft of public property! vandalism! running wild!" lies they were pushing so hard back then?
@SGT Ted,
Would you not excuse and enable the violent, property-destroying original Boston Tea Party-ers?
"And wtf is up with Meade and Althouse suddenly doing a 180degree turn on the issue of violence during the protests? Do they now feel guilty about spreading those "rapes! mayhem! theft of public property! vandalism! running wild!" lies they were pushing so hard back then?"
Specifically, which "lies". There is no 180 degree turn. I have always supported non-violent protest and condemned any acts of rape, mayhem, theft, and vandalism and I continue to condemn them.
Althouse,
most overrated place to visit <> most overrated place to live.
Madison to what i have heard is one of the top ten places to live. To an outsider....there is nothing to see there except Berkeley wannabees.
The author could have been in a bad mood or something. Most of the midwest to me is worth the visit...even the overrated places.
Don't recall you saying anything back then about you and Althouse supporting the protests, non-violent or otherwise. Rather the constant message was that there was rapes, vandalism, running wild, and general mayhem at the Capitol. It was repeatedly said on this blog that the Capitol was "stormed" by protesters. One post even flat-out says "Meade is attacked by a mob". How is that not considered violent?
The reason so many of your commentators think there was massive violence during the protests is because that is the picture you painted for them. Why are you suddenly backtracking from all that now?
We didn't "paint a picture". We observed, recorded, and reported what we saw from our points of view. We've never purported to have had the entire truth of the events.
I was attacked by an angry mob of about 2 dozen protesters on Mar. 1, 2011. I was encircled and my camera was snatched from my hands. That really did happen. But if I go up to the Capitol today, it's highly unlikely the same thing would happen. Why? — were you in that mob?
"madisonfella said...
The thousands of man-hours that were spent in order to publish the name and address of all the citizen who petitioned for a recall election says you're wrong about that."
That was about verifying the authenticity of the signatures. Your post says your're an idiot.
"madisonfella said...
The thousands of man-hours that were spent in order to publish the name and address of all the citizen who petitioned for a recall election says you're wrong about that."
That was about verifying the authenticity of the signatures. Your post says your're an idiot.
"I was attacked by an angry mob of about 2 dozen protesters on Mar. 1, 2011. I was encircled and my camera was snatched from my hands."
Good example of what I'm talking about. You claimed that a mob attacked and assaulted you. And not just that, there were many other daily posts describing alleged violent behavior and constant put downs against those who were "storming the Capitol". But all of a sudden the talking point from this blog is that "it wasn't violent" during the recall elections and you personally supported those who marched around the square.
You're backpedaling on what was previously said. Why is that?
"That really did happen."
Just like the rapes in the Rotunda happened, huh?
That was about verifying the authenticity of the signatures. Your post says your're an idiot. yo
You can verify the signatures without publishing them, brainiac. Remember, Walker didn't challenge one of them. Are you that dense, really?
That was about verifying the authenticity of the signatures. Your post says your're an idiot. yo
You can verify the signatures without publishing them, brainiac. Remember, Walker didn't challenge one of them. Are you that dense, really?
@madisonfella:
We both have issues with the way Anne & Meade commented on the article. But your criticism is nonsense on stilts. In a mob, even in an army, most people never actually attack anyone. Your argument seems to be that if everyone in the protestdid not personally attack Meade, or members of the Legislature then no one did, ergo the protest was peaceful. The utility of a mob is its size. It can bulldoze the smaller opponent without everyone in the mob getting its whacks in. A protest is not peaceful just because nobody gets killed. Otherwise a fistfight or a mugging is a peaceful interaction of two people. And that’s crazy.
@madisonfella: would you link to those rape reports in the rotunda. I don't recall those.
:garage mahal said...
You can verify the signatures without publishing them, brainiac. Remember, Walker didn't challenge one of them. Are you that dense, really?"
Sure you can Corky, given infinite time and/or resources. Or you can post them online and allow everyone to eyeball them, allowing people to, for example:
1) Verify their name isn't on there when it shouldn't.
2) Look for address that don't exist.
Curious Drago said "That was about verifying the authenticity of the signatures"
Suuuure. And the rocks thrown through the windows of the liberal coffeehouses was about letting more air into the place. While the rightwingers spitting on the petition gatherers was about keeping them hydrated. And the man who assaulted his wife wasn't really trying to stop her from voting against Walker, but instead that was his idea of foreplay.
/sarc
You're a idiot, no matter what name you post under.
Moneyrunner said "would you link to those rape reports in the rotunda. I don't recall those."
Ask Meade. He made the claim, in a different blog, that there were rapes occurring in the Capitol during the protests.
And my issue isn't about whether the protests were actually peaceful or not, but rather the 180degree turn Althouse et al has suddenly taken in describing those events. Back when it was happening they were reporting that the Capitol was being stormed, everyone was running wild, and they themselves were repeatedly physically attacked. But now they are trying to paint a very different picture, claiming it was mostly peaceful and they actually supported the protesters at the time.
I'm just wondering why they now suddenly decided to change their entire narrative.
"Ask Meade. He made the claim, in a different blog, that there were rapes occurring in the Capitol during the protests. "
No I didn't. Link to where I made that claim if you can. You can't.
"Back when it was happening they were reporting that the Capitol was being stormed, everyone was running wild, and they themselves were repeatedly physically attacked. But now they are trying to paint a very different picture, claiming it was mostly peaceful and they actually supported the protesters at the time."
The Capitol was stormed. When it was stormed, people (not everyone) were running wild. I was physically assaulted twice during the protests. Ann was physically assaulted once. As big as the protests were, as angry as they got, and as close as the space was, it is remarkable that there was so little violence. It was not "peaceful" by any means, but there was not a lot of violence.
We have consistently supported free speech, dissent, dissent within dissent, political protest, and nonviolence.
We never "supported" the protesters at any time. When the Wisconsin protests began we had sympathy for the protesters, the unionized teachers, and unionized public sector employees.
Progressively though, the more I learned about the scam and the racket of public sector unions, the more I lost sympathy for the protesters.
Althouse: "The protests, while clamorous, were never violent."
Meade: I was physically assaulted twice during the protests. Ann was physically assaulted once.
So we have a new operative statement?
Yet it wasn't violent.
Har.
"So we have a new operative statement?"
If you want: I was physically assaulted twice, Ann was physically assaulted once. Neither of us was ever seriously physically injured. Those exceptions along with a few others prove the rule that the protests, though not peaceful, were almost never violent and caused less property damage than was predicted while costing the State of Wisconsin many millions of dollars in police overtime, lost productivity, and goodwill for the unions and Democrats.
One of the major things the people of Wisconsin gained was a wider and deeper understanding of the political corruption caused by codifying a 50 year system of channeling taxpayers' earnings into the public sector unions who largely used them to enrich their leadership while solidifying the political power of their governmental allies — for the most part Democrats and some Republicans willing to trade their integrity for power, control, influence, and something called "labor peace".
That the Democrat gubernatorial candidate, Mary Burke, refuses to campaign on a position of returning Wisconsin to that corrupt system should inform voters like garage and madisonfella of just how completely lost is their cause. But I doubt it ever will.
"Link to where I made that claim if you can"
http://www.isthmus.com/citizendave/article.php?article=39660
Is the post on 04/12/13 at 7:24 pm from a different Meade?
"We have consistently supported free speech, dissent, dissent within dissent, political protest, and nonviolence."
Link to a post where you expressed support for the Solidarity Singers, if you can.
"When the Wisconsin protests began we had sympathy for the protesters, the unionized teachers, and unionized public sector employees."
Link to where you were expressing sympathy for the protesters, the unionized teachers, and unionized public sector employees, if you can.
"madisonfella said...
Suuuure. And the rocks thrown through the windows of the liberal coffeehouses was about letting more air into the place. While the rightwingers spitting on the petition gatherers was about keeping them hydrated. And the man who assaulted his wife wasn't really trying to stop her from voting against Walker, but instead that was his idea of foreplay."
So the three examples that you think support that the publishing of Walker recall signatures were proof of "conservatives obsessing over their neighbor's politics" were this?
First, "coffee houses" don't vote. And I wouldn't need to see any signatures to know a liberal coffee house. Did this stone throwing even happen after signatures were printed? Or before?
Second, signature gathering happened long before the signatures are published. Are you saying that these rightwingers who spit on petition gatherers time traveled back in time after finding out who signed?
Same with the third. Did the man see his wife's signature printed, and then traveled back in time to stop her from voting?
Where are these rightwingers getting these time machines?
As I said before, you are an idiot penguin.
Yes, that's a link, madisonfella, to comments that, yes, I made on former Madison Mayor Dave Cieslewicz's blog.
Now do you have a link to a blog where I "made the claim" [...] that there were rapes occurring in the Capitol during the protests"? Or, in your book, does a "claim that there were rapes" = "there were even reports of sexual assaults and others that probably went unreported"?
Ugh. I cant believe that of all the graduate schools one of my nephews could attend that he chose UW in Madison.
Looks like i will be able to receive man on the street info starting this fall.
I will naturally forward some of penguins/ingas/madisonfellas/garages comments as instructive examples of the lunacy present in the lovely Madison environs.
Ugh. I cant believe that of all the graduate schools one of my nephews could attend that he chose UW in Madison.
There is someone in your family with a brain?
I picture Madison as a town full of garage mahals - aggressively stupid, sanctimonious douchebags that drink a lot of coffee.
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