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४१ टिप्पण्या:
Exactly,...
The delusion of competence is well known in the case of amphetamines. The Air Force did studies of its effect on pilots many years ago. The pilot believed he was improved in his actions but objective measurement showed his actions were diminished.
Marijuana, as Bill Bennet once said, just makes you stupid. Some occupations may not be effected. Such delusions are common.
When I smoked cannabis, I almost never dreamed. This is a subject that no one ever talks about when defending its use.
It is for this reason alone that I will never again touch the stuff.
One way to read the quote in the post is that marijuana made him apathetic toward others and made him want to withdraw into himself. Whatever ideas he had, he wanted to express, but not with the real people who were in his presence. He needed to write it down and record it instead, somewhere else, without these pesky people.
Like he says it affects everyone differently, so blanket statements like Michael K.'s (who I seldom disagree with) are simply born in ignorance and prejudice.
I've known too many highly productive "normal" individuals who regularly smoked pot, and who you would never know by appearance or behavior that they were under its influence, to believe such nonsense.
I've also known the classic stoner types who were useless too.
Nothing like taking a mind altering drug to improves one's performance. Sign me right up!
"so blanket statements like Michael K.'s (who I seldom disagree with) are simply born in ignorance and prejudice."
So, the Air Force was wrong ? We had one friendly fire incident in Afghanistan related.
"I've known too many highly productive "normal" individuals who regularly smoked pot, and who you would never know by appearance or behavior that they were under its influence, to believe such nonsense."
And imagine what they could have accomplished if they were not under the influence.
When I was doing C programming, I could tell the effect of one beer. Most people who advocate pot smoking have no objective reference point.
Did you notice the dateline?
Michael K said...
The delusion of competence is well known in the case of amphetamines.
Amphetamine use enhanced cockpit performance and flight safety by reducing the effect of fatigue during critical stages of flight.
Marijuana, as Bill Bennet once said,
A psychopathic fascist speaks...
Paul said...
I've known too many highly productive "normal" individuals who regularly smoked pot, and who you would never know by appearance or behavior that they were under its influence, to believe such nonsense.
Quite so. Just as not all beer drinkers end up on skid row. Almost none do, in fact.
"One way to read the quote in the post is that marijuana made him apathetic toward others and made him want to withdraw into himself"
That was my experience with marijuana. On he other hand, it made the absurdity of television utterly transparent, something that has stuck with me 30 years after I smoked my last joint.
Yeah... addiction is for the self-absorbed. Notice that the article is about how weed was good for him, and that he quit when he started caring about other people?
Addiction puts the focus of life on one's own feelings and sensations. Addicts are boring people to be around. The author of the piece tries to rationalize what he did, but if weed was so good why did he stop? It turns out that it made him lazy. Huh.
"Of pilots who used amphetamines, 58-61% considered their use beneficial or essential to operations. Dextroamphetamine (5 mg every 4 h) was used effectively and without major side effects in tactical flying operations. Amphetamine use enhanced cockpit performance and flight safety by reducing the effect of fatigue during critical stages of flight."
Note there is no objective standard but the pilot's own observations.
On the other hand .
In the worst friendly-fire incident of the campaign, four Canadian soldiers of the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry were killed and eight injured in April when an American pilot dropped a 500lb laser-guided bomb on their position. The F-16 pilot, Illinois Air National Guard Major Harry Schmidt, had flown three hours from Kuwait to the combat zone and faced a three-hour flight back afterwards. F-16 missions from Kuwait routinely took up to nine hours.
The research I referred to is many years old and has not been unproven subsequently. There are similar studies about students studying and the use of amphetamines.
I know plenty of smart people who smoked a lot of weed when they were young. I do not know a single smart person in their fifties who smoke weed. I know some who were formerly smart.
Weed will definitely give one the impression that they are having break-through brilliant ideas that are actually quite trite and worn and sophomoric.
I believe we may have daily evidence of this phenomenon on this very blog.
Well now that it is legal in some states it's time to start human experimentation. What level of being high makes it unsafe to drive? Operate heavy equipment? What is the year over year damage to cognitive abilities among collage age students? (all these would be done by state universities and paid for by grants via pot taxes)
Start passing laws that all traffic stops in legal states will require a blood test to check for impairment. Randomly sample pot from stores to check for safety. Ban the use of attractive nuisance forms to children (candy, gummie bears, etc). Greatly increase taxes on it to play for all that.
Paul said...
"I've known too many highly productive "normal" individuals ..."
And I've known too many brain fried pot heads. And of teen users who are now adults with major personality disorders. "I've known" doesn't really cut it. We need voluntary human experimentation in places like CO. Just need a sin tax on pot to pay for the studies.
My personal expectation for true studies is that pot is a short term and long term net negative on users.
On pot gummy (or is it gummie?) bears: ER visits are up from kids eating candy with THC. Which is INSANE. What brain damaged idiot thought it was a great idea to sell a psychoactive drug in forms that are very attractive to children?
Cookies? Rice Krispie Treats? Gummy Bears? ... What the heck?
Might as well start a class action lawsuit now.
Anyone remember the Rowan and Martin's Laugh In skit where some scientists emerge from an isolation chamber where they have been performing an experiment on the effects of marijuana use.
At the press conference podium, the lead scientist announces "As the result of our weeks of testing, we can report that there are no effects whatsoever. However, the moon is trying to kill us!"
I have known people who were "opposites"...downers brought them up and uppers brought them down. Glad (and lucky) I lived long enough to outgrow that sh*t. People can say and do what they want, but my observation speaking from once within and now without the drug culture is simply that people have a way of rationalizing their addictions.
Notice how we define productive. By writing and doing art.
Now, there isn't anything wrong with artists and people who want to spend their life doing such things. But a society needs people who also work hard. Long hours. High stress. Back breaking work.
If dope makes you want to be productive by becoming a productive artist, we are in trouble.
So, the conclusion is that mellow is jello, which may be good for a mood. Tracing patterns in the sands...
Lots of ignorance in the comments.
"When I was doing C programming, I could tell the effect of one beer."
Alcohol and pot aren't even remotely similar. Extreme sports guys smoke weed before doing unbelievably difficult feats of athletic skill. Not one of them would ever in a million years drink alcohol, even one beer, and attempt such moves.
I have a frame of reference as a one time pot smoker. It wasn't for me but I know people who still smoke regularly, are in their fifties, and live completely normal productive lives. Would they be more productive if they didn't smoke? Maybe, maybe not. For some people it provides a focus and might make them more productive.
All I see in these comments is people just projecting their prejudice with little or no first hand knowledge. They'd make good liberals in that regard, but poor proponents of liberty.
But from a legality standpoint-- that is, whether or not someone should legally be able to consume marijuana-- should it even matter whether it makes that person productive or unproductive? Lots of things make people less productive, but they do them anyway because it brings them some joy or some happiness or some entertainment or because they just want to and it doesn't hurt anyone else... So what business is it of anyone else?
We don't usually ban things just because they make someone less productive. Why is this one different? Why does society have the right to restrict this person's pursuit of happiness? That's the part I don't get... I mean, I thought conservatives were supposed to be about freedom and limited government...
Paul:
I am all for liberty and all for people getting stoned out of their gourds night and day. At work and going to and fro. All for it.
Because the more people that are ripped the less competition for those of us who are sober as judges. Happy as a pig in shit to have my competition stoned.
Ever drive seventy miles per hour stoned, Paul? No? Because going twelve miles an hour feels like going seventy.
Ever drive seventy miles per hour stoned, Paul? No? Because going twelve miles an hour feels like going seventy.
Where do you get your information? Sounds like Harry Anslinger's old talking points.
Michael said...
Because the more people that are ripped the less competition for those of us who are sober as judges.
Very short sighted of you. Capitalism is not a zero sum game. The less productive other people are, the poorer your life will be. ( I'm not arguing that they don't have the right to be less productive, just that their being less productive is not something you should wish for. )
Of course with big government redistribution programs, other people being unproductive does directly harm me, so maybe if they vote for such programs they should lose their right to be unproductive...
chillblaine, I have noticed when my patients stop smoking, they have an intense dream rebound after a few days of sobriety. I have not read anything about this in the scientific literature. What I surmise is happening is that people who smoke before bedtime have a difficult time achieving REM sleep due to the sedative properties of marijuana. After they stop and the drug clears their system enough, the dreams come back hard. The folks who have described this do not say they are having nightmares, just intense dreams.
Trey
chillblaine said...
When I smoked cannabis, I almost never dreamed. This is a subject that no one ever talks about when defending its use.
As a long time pot smoker, I experienced the same thing. From childhood, I have been plagued by disturbing nightmares that cause me to thrash in my sleep, cry out, and wake up in a terror-sweat, so the dream disruption of pot-smoking was a desired side effect.
I stopped smoking again some time ago and the dreaming has returned.
Puff the daydreaming dragon.
"Alcohol and pot aren't even remotely similar. Extreme sports guys smoke weed before doing unbelievably difficult feats of athletic skill. Not one of them would ever in a million years drink alcohol, even one beer, and attempt such moves."
Says the expert. Where were you when DEA needed such expertise ?
Stoned ?
get in a car wreck on the way home, ignore your wife and your children, lose your job for shoddy work, shake you infant son to death for screaming too much...
Yeah, I've seen folks do these things and claim the weed was harmless..
Your Results May Vary.
My son's did.
get in a car wreck on the way home, ignore your wife and your children, lose your job for shoddy work, shake you infant son to death for screaming too much...
That's the problem with alcohol.
I had an acquaintance who was an extreme pothead. He denied it had any effect on him. Nobody else agreed. This seems to be quite common with all drugs.
An EE colleague said that trying to finish projects while high didn't work out so well when he looked at his work later, so stopped doing it.
Ignorance is Bliss:
Nope. The less competition for my work the better. People need my product, money, and with fewer people finding it for others the better my pricing power, the better chance of expanding my client base the better chance of getting juicer assignments.
phx
I get my information from personal experience. From being so ripped and so paranoid that driving twenty felt like driving seventy.
Where do you get your information?
Paul said: "Lots of ignorance in the comments."
This is one of my favorite type of comments.
Translation: "Most here are idiots. I am the self-appointed expert. If you don't believe it, just ask me. So there."
Bobby said:
But from a legality standpoint-- that is, whether or not someone should legally be able to consume marijuana-- should it even matter whether it makes that person productive or unproductive? Lots of things make people less productive, but they do them anyway because it brings them some joy or some happiness or some entertainment or because they just want to and it doesn't hurt anyone else... So what business is it of anyone else?
*****************
Excellent point: could not have said it better myself. Let's talk about how PRODUCTIVE we'd all be if we stopped commenting on blogs, watching TV, or reading paperback mysteries (which I have found harder to put down than a bong, truth be told - should I stop reading Lee Child in order to be more "productive"?) Those folks quick to yammer: "but...but...you'd be more PRODUCTIVE if you didn't smoke weed" generally don't follow up with a convincing argument as to why a life well lived is measured by one's tangible production, or how many promotions one has earned in their career. They also never seem to grasp that most of us are average people, living average lives, working average jobs that only REQUIRE 75% of one's brain power - if that. Few of us are aiming for PhDs, Nobel Prizes, congressional office, or any number of things that demand 110% commitment. To listen to them, you'd think we were machines with a quota to fill before we die.
I think people like that are so insecure about their own "productivity" the thought of those who are more laid back, less competitive, and more content...with less, are very threatening.
phx
I get my information from personal experience. From being so ripped and so paranoid that driving twenty felt like driving seventy.
Where do you get your information?
Michael
In my personal experience I understand being ripped and I understand paranoia, but I don't understand confusing 20 for 70 while driving.
I can't gainsay someone else's personal experience, no accounting for metabolism, additives, whatever.
But speaking for myself marijuana is in no way as disorienting to driving as alcohol is. I don't advocate driving while using either, but in my youth I did both, God forgive me. I'll take my chances going up against a stoned driver over a drunk driver any day.
YMMV, if you know what I mean.
So much depends on the strain, and so much more depends on the dose.
I used to microdose myself (64ths of a gram) for English assignments. Musical analysis would benefit from occasional moderately highs, but with diminishing returns at higher doses. It gave me no benefit when doing mathematics. The chief benefits were insights I could verify after the high, and which have lasted to this day.
I have not taken it in any form for close to 25 years, but I still consider it to be a remarkable drug.
(Looking back, microdosing might have been by self medicating for ADHD.)
Michael K, 5mg q4h is a low dose. I did not observe change in temperament until 25-30mg/dy.
The reason I quit (i took it, legally, for add/falling asleep in meetings) is because, in all modesty, my wedding tackle works and has always worked really really well.
But one day, without further detail, I noticed a certain sluggishness, a difficulty in making iron at the forge. The girl asked me if I was doing coke. Then the light went on. I asked the doc about it, he believed it should be quite the opposite. I walked out and never saw him again.
I'd like to have access to dexedrine sometimes, or adderal maybe, but wouldn't like to make a habit of it. As always the dose makes the poison.
PS. Complete recovery, ladies, never fear.
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